RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

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Who is Trump's assailant?

Poll ended at Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:36 pm

Golden 2.0
0
No votes
insertnamehere
0
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JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
Metalmarsh89
4
67%
Lyin' Ted (host/dead/non)
2
33%
 
Total votes: 6
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Quin
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2551

Post by Quin »

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hell, without PoE we would have probably lost this game to reywaS instead. :grin:
I'll take solace in the fact that I actually caught a baddie there.

Anyway, great games all around. Thanks for being a good sport Jay and pouring your heart into it yet again. Thanks Golden for killing Epignosis (that was yuuge). Sorry Quin for wrongly lynching you twice in this game. I think this is our first game together, so I'll keep this in mind for the future.

Thanks for the game G-Man. I do think this game was a tough one for the civilians, bu we certainly could have done it, and I think we performed better than the average group of players would have done.

We've played together like 5 times :haha: I guess I'm not very good at making an impression.
Lunalee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2552

Post by Golden »

Oh, right. So the town was doomed from the moment I chose epi. Well, it would have been very difficult for me to win and the town to win in the same game, then.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2553

Post by Quin »

This was actually probably the worst game I've ever had. I didn't vote a single baddie and town read two of them
Lunalee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2554

Post by Golden »

Quin wrote:This was actually probably the worst game I've ever had. I didn't vote a single baddie and town read two of them
Sorry for lynching you and not being sorry, Quin. Btw, I'm always sorry for a mislynch outside of the game. I just have to be honest about how I feel from a game perspective only while inside the game.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2555

Post by Quin »

Golden wrote:
Quin wrote:This was actually probably the worst game I've ever had. I didn't vote a single baddie and town read two of them
Sorry for lynching you and not being sorry, Quin. Btw, I'm always sorry for a mislynch outside of the game. I just have to be honest about how I feel from a game perspective only while inside the game.
I don't mind. I don't take anything personally.
Lunalee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2556

Post by Marmot »

Quin wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hell, without PoE we would have probably lost this game to reywaS instead. :grin:
I'll take solace in the fact that I actually caught a baddie there.

Anyway, great games all around. Thanks for being a good sport Jay and pouring your heart into it yet again. Thanks Golden for killing Epignosis (that was yuuge). Sorry Quin for wrongly lynching you twice in this game. I think this is our first game together, so I'll keep this in mind for the future.

Thanks for the game G-Man. I do think this game was a tough one for the civilians, bu we certainly could have done it, and I think we performed better than the average group of players would have done.

We've played together like 5 times :haha: I guess I'm not very good at making an impression.
Oops, I meant to say first time playing for any length of time. I know we played together briefly in the other game and I've hosted you twice. :P
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2557

Post by Epignosis »

Golden wrote:Nah, epi is epi.
Scotty wrote:Rico is good.
MP is bad.
Beck is gab.
JJJ is meh.
SVS is gone.
Leetic is hi.
Boom is high.
Epi is Epi.
Sloonei is circumstantial.
MM is crabs.
Wilgy is $}£*G:".
INH is probable.
Golden is lackluster.
Quin is judicial.
Scotty is me.
:eye:
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2558

Post by Epignosis »

Golden wrote:Oh, right. So the town was doomed from the moment I chose epi. Well, it would have been very difficult for me to win and the town to win in the same game, then.
See? I fuck over the civilians even when I'm bad and getting night killed by the serial killer. :feb:

It's like, my thing.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2559

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Thanks for the game G-Man. I always appreciate such a big effort in narration and flavor. :beer:
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2560

Post by insertnamehere »

Ricochet wrote:As for INH, whilst this is in no way an implication regarding what he could have done, I'm noticing that, if he received his role card the way it's written in post-game, there isn't a mention that he has BTSC. Lover role cards usually go both ways.
Golden wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Lover role cards usually go both ways.
I think he noticed from the fact we had a btsc thread.
No, we're talking role cards here. If there's a "Julianna, you and Dave have BTSC" card, there should be a "Dave, you and Julianna have BTSC" one.
Not 100% on what you're asking, but here's what I got in a PM when the game began.
Good morning,

You are IVANKA TRUMP, a member of the Trump family. You are one of Donald Trump's most trusted children and advisers. You're strong bond to your family gives you the strength to protect them. Each night, you may protect one member of the Trump Family. This will keep them safe from nightkills on the night you send their name in. PM your protection choice by the end of the night phase, specifying which Trump family member (not a player name) that you wish to protect. You cannot protect anyone whose last name is not Trump, so you cannot protect your husband.

You also have BTSC with your husband, Jared Kushner. Here is a link to a private chat for you two until we can get a BTSC thread set up.
Me and Leetic/Golden never completely shared our roles with each other until Day 5, when I laid out that Trump had to be still in the game because of my power. So I didn't see what his role card looked like at all.

I poked G-Man along in regards to replacing Leetic, as from my perspective he'd been inactive for multiple phases. G-Man couldn't really keep him in the game for much longer without me needing some form of explanation as to why he was still around. I kinda forced his hand there.

As for the whole PoE thing, I rest squarely on Rico's side. Frankly, the whole entire thing is just exhausting at this point, and I hope that in the future everybody can recognize everyone else's viewpoints as valid without dismissing them solely because they disagree on strategy. I also hope we can avoid people emphasizing one particular playstyle as the clear, superior, and obvious choice based on their anecdotal evidence, and chastising others for not getting behind them.

And that's all I have to say about that.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2561

Post by insertnamehere »

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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2562

Post by Golden »

I had a story I was able to tell inh if he pressed. It was that my role was to swap out a kill on Trump to someone else. I guess it would have been helpful in making me appear to be protecting Trump, although all of his lackeys were town as well...

I should have used that to infer what Trump's role was, but I never did. I always (right back from before I had this role) was thinking there might be some kind of redirect role in play, but I never considered that it was intentional self-defence.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2563

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Somehow I always seem to end up drawing the role that never dies.

Talking Heads, can't be night killed.
Turf Wars, would never be targeted anyway.
2015 GOC, immune to first night kill/lynch.
Red vs. Blue, other townies take bullets for me.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2564

Post by Epignosis »

Heists aren't really my thing, but I might still pop in from time to time. I prefer the more elaborate goings on.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2565

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

I think the main reason I usually prefer simpler games is that I can be more confident that they're balanced. I tend to play Mafia so dang hard that it's ideal to feel like it's worthwhile, and that all that effort has at least a decent chance of helping my team win the game.

I think that generally speaking the more complex a game is, the less balanced it is. There are exceptions of course. I think complexity tends to work against town though and in role madness games (open or closed setups) I always have less faith that what I am doing really matters that much.

I also probably just have a general preference for the core investigation/deception concept of Mafia over games more reliant upon night actions and such. To each their own. :)
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2566

Post by Golden »

I want to point out I did the exact opposite of 'chastising people for not getting behind them'. I tried to explain the concept, and got a lot of people who chastised me for having it. To which I responded things like the following:
Golden wrote:Btw Rico, I don't think you have to AGREE with this way of thinking about the game
Golden wrote:All I hear your posts saying, rico, is 'I'm a great mafia player the way I am, I refuse to take on board anything that could change my perspective'.

Which is your prerogative, and fine if you want to be that way - Epi will probably call what we are talking about bullshit as well, and you are both great players, so it's certainly a view you can have.
So, while I was very much trying to explain to people the way in which I was playing and make it very clear, and what I found is people were rejecting it outright without even trying to understand it, I was trying very expressly to make it clear that I did not expect others to play that way and that I was trying to explain why I was using it. In response, this was the kind of stuff I was getting...
insertnamehere wrote:So lemme get this straight. You've invented arbitrary reasons why people HAVE to be town. You've also invented arbitrary reasons why they HAVE to be scum. You go through with this method, and start lynching. Unfortunately, you bump off a civilian. Instead of thinking, "Oh gee, maybe my reasoning was incorrect." you double down and try to lynch more people for the same exact reasons.

I guess I'm not the type of person who can gleefully murder one innocent person to save five others, and then pat myself on the back for doing so.

I also think this entire style of gameplay is downright dangerous to civilians. You've essentially built yourself a little echo chamber where you can have a little list of people, and proceed to try and bump every single one of them off, completely indifferent to anything which may prove you wrong, because you have more faith in the system than anything else.
insertnamehere wrote:I disagree that this is good strategy, and I disagree that this is what civilians should listen to and do. I think your goals are misguided and wrong.
insertnamehere wrote:Then again, I believe that the only difference between how 3J/Golden and everyone else plays the game is a combination of apathy towards lynched civilians, complete and utter conviction in reads that will never be doubted for a second, (that last one describes Golden more than 3J) and an air of superiority.
So I very much hope that when you make that comment, you are being honest in your analysis about exactly who was being chastised, and who was doing the chastising, for 'not getting in behind' someone else's playstyle. I never expect others to play the game the way I play it, and if others do see merit in it then that's neat. But I don't expect others to, and I'm certainly not chastising anyone for not. In turn, I hope that people come out of this understanding that the PoE is a legitimate way of playing, and don't chastise me or others for using it.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2567

Post by Epignosis »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the main reason I usually prefer simpler games is that I can be more confident that they're balanced. I tend to play Mafia so dang hard that it's ideal to feel like it's worthwhile, and that all that effort has at least a decent chance of helping my team win the game.

I think that generally speaking the more complex a game is, the less balanced it is. There are exceptions of course. I think complexity tends to work against town though and in role madness games (open or closed setups) I always have less faith that what I am doing really matters that much.

I also probably just have a general preference for the core investigation/deception concept of Mafia over games more reliant upon night actions and such. To each their own. :)
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2568

Post by Golden »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think that generally speaking the more complex a game is, the less balanced it is.
This is probably true, but I also think that large complex games have an additional factor, which is that it does not matter how balanced it starts, the number of potential outcomes available make it far more likely to become imbalanced as the game wears on. I've had complex games (like BSG) where the town has come through to a resounding win that I think was possible because of the number of events designed to potentially go either way that went the towns way.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2569

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

It's probably not coincidental that the two people who utilized PoE in this game the most frequently are the ones who experienced dominating town wins in Thingyman's tournaments. My season 2 qualifier game was won going away with that strategy at the forefront, and it's something that stuck with me after that. Both of Golden's season 3 games were similar, and it's obvious that it has stuck with him too.

Maybe it's something folks have to see work. I dunno.

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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2570

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Epignosis wrote:Civilians win more in my games than mafia do. :)
You've hosted a million games obviously, and I know balance is something you pay a lot of attention to in that role. :nicenod:
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2571

Post by Marmot »

I used PoE in Recruitment Mafia before it was cool. :shrug2:
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2572

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I used PoE in Recruitment Mafia before it was cool. :shrug2:
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2573

Post by Golden »

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I used PoE in Recruitment Mafia before it was cool. :shrug2:
We are now in the post-cool era. It didn't last long.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2574

Post by DrWilgy »

I'm curious. Why was I killed... Twice?
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@DrWilgy don't post any more k
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JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2575

Post by Marmot »

DrWilgy wrote:I'm curious. Why was I killed... Twice?
Looks like Epignosis killed you Night 1, then he killed you again Night 3. :grin:

But the second time, he tried to kill Triple-J, whose role redirected the kill to you.
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2576

Post by Epignosis »

DrWilgy wrote:I'm curious. Why was I killed... Twice?
I was trying to eliminate roles with powers. I thought you had one.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2577

Post by Marmot »

Was there a Spectator Chat for this game?
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2578

Post by G-Man »

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Was there a Spectator Chat for this game?
Yes but it was poorly attended. Maybe if another game requiring 38 players hadn't been going on at the same time, a few people may have stumbled upon it. Then again, a heist game featuring more posts than most Speed games may have scared people off too. Seriously, over 10% of JJJ's total posts sitewide come from this game. :eek:
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2579

Post by G-Man »

Under 24 hours to go to submit your MVP votes!
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2580

Post by G-Man »

Voting is over. In one last surprise twist, METALMARSH89 has been voted MVP of the game. Congratulations!
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2581

Post by Ricochet »

Has a request for a recount been filed? :p
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2582

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

I think that's a deserved recognition. I hope you don't take it the wrong way Golden, because you also played well and would have been deserving. I think this is one of those scenarios where the person who played the best Mafia might not have been in the winning faction. Marmot had a hell of a town game and I'm glad it was noticed.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2583

Post by Ricochet »

It's not the first time, actually, when the MVP is not from Camp Win.

Plus, it's very appropriate to the theme: you can't screw everyone over and expect to earn the popular vote. :dark:
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2584

Post by Golden »

I would have been disappointed to win MVP. Economics this was not. I voted mm!
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2585

Post by Golden »

Although, actually, I think my performance of a member of the town (in both roles - since I never realised that I wasn't a member of the town in any scenario after the mafia were dead) was a long way better than my performance as sk. Even though I did correctly identify the last member of mafia and Trump with my kills, I think that this speaks far more to how well I was seeing the game as a townie than to how well I played as a sk.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2586

Post by Marmot »

G-Man wrote:Voting is over. In one last surprise twist, METALMARSH89 has been voted MVP of the game. Congratulations!
:eek:

Thank you for the votes everyone! Most importantly, I think we did a good job of putting a team effort into this one. Go team!
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2587

Post by G-Man »

EPILOGUE
David Koch sat in his favorite chair, reveling at the chaos unwinding on his television. Donald Trump was dead and media pundits were falling all over themselves to cover the first assassination of a presidential candidate in almost 50 years. First, there was the crime itself. A massive manhunt was underway for Donald’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner.

Second, there was the political fallout. What would the RNC do now? Who would replace Trump as the nominee? With ballot deadlines fast approaching for most states, the Republican Party had to act fast to avoid widespread confusion on Election Day. David didn’t care. He would wield his money and influence over the GOP in an attempt plant his desired politician as the replacement. If that failed, he could stomach four years of Hillary. When you’re a billionaire, it’s easy to stomach a lot of things.

His brother was in the other room, talking on the phone. His face soured at his brother’s happy discourse and tone. Charles Koch walked into the room and flashed a smug grin as he finished his phone call.

“So Jeb made it to the safe house?” David asked even though he already knew the answer.

“Yes,” Charles said. “He is officially off the grid now. And to think, you suggested we hire Ted Cruz for this mission.”

“Yes, indeed. What next, then?”

“Just like we planned,” Charles explained. “In two weeks, he will be picked up and undergo surgery to make him look like himself again.”

“And he knows that this means he cannot be the replacement candidate?”

“Yes, he is well aware of that.”

“Good then,” David said. “I think I’ll go for a drive.” He got up from his chair and made it halfway across the room before his brother coughed in an attention-getting way.

“Don’t forget about our bet, David,” he said. “You lost.”

“Indeed I did,” David sighed. “Which of your accounts shall I wire your million dollars to?”

“None of them,” Charles said. “I think this time I’d like my winnings in hand. Gold bullion will do nicely.”


--------------------------------------------


Pamela Brown woke up in a strange place. It took her a minute to realize that she was in a hospital room. She racked her brain to recall what put her here. Then she noticed a boy sitting in a chair, staring at her with contempt. It all came back to her in an instant- the mission, the accident, everything.

“Good,” Barron Trump said, “you’re awake.”

“What happened? How long have I been out?”

“None of that matters right now. At least, not to me. My father and sister are dead. I don’t know if you’re responsible for that but until I learn otherwise, I am going to treat you as though you are. I don’t know who you are yet but you are going to tell me everything you know about Operation Cobalt and the people you work for.

“Now that you’re awake, we can take you anywhere we want for further treatment. Your cooperation will determine where we take you, the duration of your stay, and the conditions you will be subjected to. I will avenge my father. Believe me.”


--------------------------------------------
Will Barron Trump get his revenge?

Find out in BLUE vs. RED


Coming ???
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2588

Post by Marmot »

I like mafia games with recurring characters. This'll be exciting!
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

#2589

Post by G-Man »

I am going to lock this thread and request it to be transferred over to the archives. The game has been over for more than a week now, so it's time to move on. Replacing this spot on the main page with a big gaping hole may even help spur interest in the other games currently in sign-ups. It's time for the next Heist host to step up as well!

Thanks for playing, everyone. It was fun and just a tad surreal.

:)
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