[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

[November]

So... Peterman?

[Julinook]

So... Peterman?

That's what I think, yes. However, if you read the George material he posted or I posted about him and don't agree with my conclusion, feel free to say so. Feel free to tell me I am a poop head too.

[November]

I'll review things later. Mr. Steinbrenner insists that I remain focused on Game 7 right now though. Our dear Yankees are in a hole right now, it's just dreadful.

[Tangrowth]

I'll review things later. Mr. Steinbrenner insists that I remain focused on Game 7 right now though. Our dear Yankees are in a hole right now, it's just dreadful.

I'm quite fine with it myself.

[November]

Big Stein is inconsolable.

[November]

That game was a real heartbreaker, love-taker, shoemaker.

[DrWilgy]

Lets go 'stros!!!

[November]

Some reasons that make me question my vote:
1. He was there when Elaine self-proclaimed vigilante on Day 2. So following my line of thought in #1 above, despite her claim being bogus, it was suspicious. If I was scum, and I saw it, I would have most likely targeted her on Night 2, unless I was attempting to frame her but even then I would have targeted her Night 3 instead of Night 4 - especially when she claimed she wasn't out of shots.

I do not think this point should be applied to Peterman, but George's application of it makes me feel a bit better about them. The mafia team knows that there is no vigilante in this game from the start. They have a godfather, and according to the matrix, this means the town power roles must be a 2-shot tracker and a 2-shot cop. The entire mafia team (presumably) would have known Elaine's vig claim was bogus from the start. I think this contributed to her survival in the game.
On the flip side, George is making this observation, and the thought process appears genuine to me. This feels like an earnest assessment of George's reasons for and against a Peterman vote yesterday. That this thought existed in his mind tells me that he had not considered the point, and thus was not aware of the falseness of Elaine's first roleclaim at the time it happened.

[November]

So... Peterman?

That's what I think, yes. However, if you read the George material he posted or I posted about him and don't agree with my conclusion, feel free to say so. Feel free to tell me I am a poop head too.

As of right now, I agree with your conclusion. I'd like to know how everyone else is feeling as well.

[November]

The George vs. Peterman argument for me hinges on how each of them was treated by the other two mafia. Jackie and Whatley both avoided Peterman completely until he was looking like a slam dunk lynch, for the most part. But they also both started to "suspect" George at around the same time, in a game in which George has professed to being stretched thing on time and energy. I could potentially see that as a behind the scenes agreement to bus their struggling teammate for credit.
The second point feels like more of a stretch, and I don't think the Whatley/Bania pairing was much better off than George at the start of the game, so for the team to agree to bus a player who was far from their least active member seems to be lacking in a bit in strategy.

Also the simple fact that George's contributions have been much stronger in this game. If it comes down to a coin flip, I'd rather lose to George's 100+ posts than Peterman's 17. I don't think we'll need a coinflip.

[November]

Jerry
Leo
George
Peterman

[Julinook]

Another point to discuss while we're all still here:

To no lynch or not to no lynch?

Mathematically speaking, it should be an easy choice. Do it and reduce the pool with the ensuing kill. However, this is only meaningful if the suspect pool is still expansive (i.e. it still includes everyone among Jerry, Leo, George, and Peterman). In that case, removing one has real value. If it's not the case, then what's being removed is a voice, not a suspect. That might be a problem.

[November]

Another point to discuss while we're all still here:

To no lynch or not to no lynch?

Mathematically speaking, it should be an easy choice. Do it and reduce the pool with the ensuing kill. However, this is only meaningful if the suspect pool is still expansive (i.e. it still includes everyone among Jerry, Leo, George, and Peterman). In that case, removing one has real value. If it's not the case, then what's being removed is a voice, not a suspect. That might be a problem.

I think it's pointless. They'll just kill you and me, and (I think) no one is considering voting for either of us. The suspect pool is not being reduced.

[Julinook]

I think I agree. I'm not sure they'd kill me as a tinfoil magnet, but a Leo kill has a similar effect anyway.

[November]

It's between Peterman and George for me and an extra 72 hours doesn't add much.

[Julinook]

It adds time and sacrifices a voice. Given the circumstances, I'd rather have the voice.

[November]

I'm nearly confident enough to vote for Peterman now.

[Principal Skinner]

Jerry
Leo
George
Peterman

agreed

[Principal Skinner]

I'm nearly confident enough to vote for Peterman now.

also agreed

[Principal Skinner]

I guess I should say why -- because of the Soup kill. Anyone paying attention would not have made that choice IMO. That is the primary reason I am comfortable going from "no JP" to "agreed."

[November]

I obviously want everyone who's still alive to continue talking everything other. If the consensus is that we should take an extra day, do that. But I am confident enough to vote for Peterman right now, and I have been for a couple of days. I've been swayed off of wanting to vote for everyone else multiple times.

[Spooky Ghost]

I'll be voting Peterman. Logically he's the last scum. I'm sure Steinbrenner is town, Leo and Jerry too. It's Peterman for sure.

[November]

I expect to die tonight. I've shared everything I can think to say at this point, so I don't have any new legacy reads to add. I'll just leave this post again for any questions about why I'm confident it's Peterman. Good game, win or lose y'all. Be the Astros, not the Yankees.

[Julinook]

[Tangrowth]

Night 5

Spoiler: show

Big Stein is blown. Blown away. Blown, players. BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN... A bomb killed him.



George Steinbrenner has been killed.

He was Sloonei and...

Spoiler: show

Civilian 2-Shot Cop

It is now Day 6.

NOTE: It is now MYLO. Votes are still changeable. The deadline will end once a hammer of 3 votes has been placed on any poll option.

[Julinook]

[mention]MovingPictures07[/mention]

If the mafia team doesn't submit a kill, is there no kill at all or a randomized kill?

[Tangrowth]

@MovingPictures07

If the mafia team doesn't submit a kill, is there no kill at all or a randomized kill?

No kill.

Just as I would treat any power role (i.e., if a standard cop was in this game and did not submit a check Day 1, I wouldn't randomize one for them).

[Julinook]

[mention]George Costanza[/mention], what do you think of that?

[Spacedaisy]

So I know that I'm a mod and I should be in the know, but I still don't get the difference between LYLO and MYLO. Can someone please explain these concepts for me?

[Julinook]

So I know that I'm a mod and I should be in the know, but I still don't get the difference between LYLO and MYLO. Can someone please explain these concepts for me?

I like to divide these into three categories:

MYLO -- "mislynch and lose" -- if a civilian is lynched, the civilians lose. It's still possible to no lynch instead (e.g. 3 versus 1, 4 versus 2, etc).

LYLO -- "lynch or lose" -- if a civilian is lynched OR there is no lynch, the civilians lose (e.g. 3 versus 2, 4 versus 3, etc).

True LYLO -- sudden death -- the result of the lynch dictates who wins the game either way (e.g. 2 versus 1).

[Principal Skinner]

So I know that I'm a mod and I should be in the know, but I still don't get the difference between LYLO and MYLO. Can someone please explain these concepts for me?

Thanks for asking! I have/had the same questions.

Jerry, thanks for answering.

[Julinook]

HEY GANG!

I think I know what I'm going to be doing today, I'm just waiting for a response.

[Spooky Ghost]

I don't see a reason for a no lynch at this point.

Jerry and Leo are town.

Peterman has 17 posts. I'm not losing this game to him.

If Jerry is the last scum, despite everything then 1. I'll never, ever play with him again :P and 2. he deserves the win tbqh.

Possibly the most frustrating game I've ever played. I've never played with such a disconnected scum team!

[Spooky Ghost]

I am basing my Leo read entirely on his possible lynch reaction. It was an outraged, appalled, upset townie. And he played with out emotions, and made us feel guilty. A scum wouldn't resort to that, I believe.

[Spooky Ghost]

I am basing my Jerry read on how well he's played as Townie, and my early intuition, despite how shit he's made George Costanza's mafia life, and how helpful he's been and his outrage at my accusation of him possibly being the god father (including how much time he's dedicated to this game and slacking behind in real life obligations, total disgust at the implication he may be scum). I dig that. I felt it.

[Julinook]

Just one question, [mention]George Costanza[/mention]. Do you think Peterman could have delivered the most recent night kill?

@MovingPictures07

If the mafia team doesn't submit a kill, is there no kill at all or a randomized kill?

No kill.

Just as I would treat any power role (i.e., if a standard cop was in this game and did not submit a check Day 1, I wouldn't randomize one for them).

[Spooky Ghost]

I saw Peterman's last post stating he'd be busy at a music festival over the weekend. If I was the last scum and I was anticipating a busy weekend where I had a target to submit, I'd more than likely send my kill to the mod ahead of time. Unless that would go against the rules and the scum is only allowed to send in the kill after the lynch is revealed? Is that what you're saying?

[Julinook]

I saw Peterman's last post stating he'd be busy at a music festival over the weekend. If I was the last scum and I was anticipating a busy weekend where I had a target to submit, I'd more than likely send my kill to the mod ahead of time. Unless that would go against the rules and the scum is only allowed to send in the kill after the lynch is revealed? Is that what you're saying?

Let's ask!

[mention]MovingPictures07[/mention], is it legal for mafia members or power roles to submit actions prior to a night phase if necessary?

[Spooky Ghost]

If the mod says we aren't allowed to submit night kills ahead of time...

Do we really want to go back to implicating Leo after all that was said and done? Do I really want to believe a scum leo would resort to emotional blackmail of sorts to get us off his back I don't know. I have no idea who is behind the sock and what s/he is capable of, but I kind of don't want to believe it (despite everything else screaming for a lynch of him before).

WHY AM I DOUBTING MYSELF SO MUCH.

I think we'd need clarification from the mod if night kills are allowed to be sent in ahead of time.

[Spooky Ghost]

I saw Peterman's last post stating he'd be busy at a music festival over the weekend. If I was the last scum and I was anticipating a busy weekend where I had a target to submit, I'd more than likely send my kill to the mod ahead of time. Unless that would go against the rules and the scum is only allowed to send in the kill after the lynch is revealed? Is that what you're saying?

Let's ask!

@MovingPictures07, is it legal for mafia members or power roles to submit actions prior to a night phase if necessary?

further, and pending what MP says, is it possible for Peterman to have logged in quickly from his phone at any point during the night phase and simply sent in a name for the night kill without making an appearance itt?

[Julinook]

If the mod says we aren't allowed to submit night kills ahead of time...

Do we really want to go back to implicating Leo after all that was said and done? Do I really want to believe a scum leo would resort to emotional blackmail of sorts to get us off his back I don't know. I have no idea who is behind the sock and what s/he is capable of, but I kind of don't want to believe it (despite everything else screaming for a lynch of him before).

WHY AM I DOUBTING MYSELF SO MUCH.

I think we'd need clarification from the mod if night kills are allowed to be sent in ahead of time.

I don't want to imply that I trust Peterman more or Leo less or you less. There are explanations here. I am just exploring an angle before I take the dive and click that fateful button.

[Julinook]

further, and pending what MP says, is it possible for Peterman to have logged in quickly from his phone at any point during the night phase and simply sent in a name for the night kill without making an appearance itt?
[/quote]

Sock accounts like these are blocked so that we cannot see one another online, and we also cannot see the last log-in time for any sock. It prevents us from solving games this way. So yes, it is plausible that Peterman logged in, sent a kill, and did not say anything. That's a guess we have to make based on our intuitions.

[Spooky Ghost]

I have unvoted. I want to see what MP will say. I don't want to be an accidental reason for an easy hammer (I just realized there's a hammer now)

[Julinook]

Fixed:

further, and pending what MP says, is it possible for Peterman to have logged in quickly from his phone at any point during the night phase and simply sent in a name for the night kill without making an appearance itt?

Sock accounts like these are blocked so that we cannot see one another online, and we also cannot see the last log-in time for any sock. It prevents us from solving games this way. So yes, it is plausible that Peterman logged in, sent a kill, and did not say anything. That's a guess we have to make based on our intuitions.

[Spooky Ghost]

I still feel if we add everything up, Peterman is the best case.

[Spooky Ghost]

But I'll go back and check over the Leo phase after that thing that made us all change our minds about him.

[Julinook]

I still feel if we add everything up, Peterman is the best case.

I want to emphasize that this doesn't necessarily reflect Jerry changing his mind for the nine millionth time. I'm just tying up a loose end.

[Julinook]

Okay. I don't actually care about MP's answer to that question. Regardless of the rule, there's an explanation available which allows Peterman to deliver that kill, and it's not one that requires a great deal of mental gymnastics. He logged in, sent a kill, and fucked off to wherever.

My purpose here was to test George one last time. I'd say the test was passed. If after all this I am still wrong, then I'll just have to live with that. We had George lynched and I turned it away from that at the 11th hour. I'm genuinely sorry to the civilian team if I made the wrong decision.

I don't think I am going to sell myself on a Leo lynch, and I don't want to try. If he's mafia, then good game sir and you deserve your banner.

And, though I don't like to be in a position to make this kind of call -- I agree that losing to a man with 17 posts would be hard to take.

*Vote Peterman*

[Spooky Ghost]

I feel better about Leo at this point after re-reading the interactions he had with Whatley and how Whatley reacted to Leo.

[Spooky Ghost]

It won't be very fruitful to see what Peterman had to say, but also reassessing what Whatley had to say about Peterman, he seems like the most likely suspect at this point.