[SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

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JaggedJimmyJay
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#81

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

For me it's very simple:

It's better for someone to win a game that they didn't necessarily earn than for someone to be denied a win that they absolutely earned.

I mean no offense to anyone with a contrary viewpoint, but I really have no interest in playing any game that isn't dead or alive. I think that's a completely different game -- it's no longer Mafia and instead it's something else.

I do think of town as a team.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#82

Post by Ricochet »

Meanwhile, your name turned to red, the traditional color of mafia. :eek:

JaggedJimmyJay

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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#83

Post by Golden »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:For me it's very simple:

It's better for someone to win a game that they didn't necessarily earn than for someone to be denied a win that they absolutely earned.

I mean no offense to anyone with a contrary viewpoint, but I really have no interest in playing any game that isn't dead or alive. I think that's a completely different game -- it's no longer Mafia and instead it's something else.

I do think of town as a team.
If the game is as simple as town vs baddies, I can see the merit in this view point. And I definitely see the merit in win cons being balanced for both sides (I've mentioned before, that if baddies don't win if they die, things like bussing becomes quite contentious within the team and so it leads to better balance, for me, than allowing one side the privilege only).

However, I think there are some game set ups where being alive to win is not only appropriate, but kind of almost necessary. If you have a game with a lot of independents, for instance, then a world in which only the independents would be best served by playing selfishly makes them stick out strongly. I think the game set up should dictate the best win conditions not the other way around. I've been working recently on a game where I've had to give win conditions a lot of thought, and being able to win while dead would not work for that game. I also would have strict participation requirements on a win if I hosted a game

I also think that the 'win only if alive' thing often contributes to keeping mafia at our site civil and low-key, as opposed to mafiascum srs bsnss. Knowing your win or loss might be completely out of your control keeps people in a headspace where being the best mafia player they can possibly be isn't the be all and end all, and I think that can be good for culture. And it requires you to bring out a different skill set. I, personally, find the most exciting thing about mafia as we present it at the home sites I've had (and probably the Syndicate more than any other) is that different game requirements force your skill set into all sorts of directions. It creates a challenge for self to have to adapt to whatever the game throws at me, and doing my best to figure out how to meet that challenge is for me far more satisfying than winning itself (even if it means flame outs like, for instance, my recruitment flame out).

And, JJ... if you are anything like me, I reckon that even in games where dead people don't 'win'... you'll take one for the team. I've never minded losing if it gets my team the win. It's all about perspective anyway, I think. I'd usually sooner be dead and see my faction win than be still alive when the other faction wins. I don't think you should rule out different kinds of games... you should take them for what they are... and you are right that in some ways they are not 'mafia', not in its purest form. They are something else. But they are still something really fun.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#84

Post by FZ. »

Well, my gut response is to agree with JJJ. This is how I originally played mafia, and it's the mafia default for me, and because of that, I don't think I can play the way some of the syndicaters play. I just have to give it all I got. Sometimes it backfires, LOL and I end up screwing things for the others. But like I said, it's in my mafia DNA.

But I also get what Golden is saying. The syndicate has a different style and it's fun to switch every now and then and maybe some set ups really should require being alive. That said, I think that should be the exception and not the norm.

I miss playing the simple games, when it's all about your read on people and not so much behind the scene craziness.

I would still love to play more closed set up games where it's not just cop and vanilla townies on one hand, yet not full of complicated roles on the other hand.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#85

Post by Epignosis »

FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#86

Post by FZ. »

Epignosis wrote:FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
Is it a big crazy game?
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#87

Post by Epignosis »

FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
Is it a big crazy game?
Only the most awesome kind of big and crazy. :srsnod:
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#88

Post by FZ. »

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
Is it a big crazy game?
Only the most awesome kind of big and crazy. :srsnod:
I can't keep up with those :sigh: Everything is just a mess in my head and it's so hard to catch up when all the real talking happens when I'm asleep. That's true for every game, but in the big ones I end up having to catch up on 10 pages (and I'm reminding you English is not my mother tongue).
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#89

Post by Golden »

FZ, what is your first language? I had no idea.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#90

Post by S~V~S »

FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
Is it a big crazy game?
Only the most awesome kind of big and crazy. :srsnod:
I can't keep up with those :sigh: Everything is just a mess in my head and it's so hard to catch up when all the real talking happens when I'm asleep. That's true for every game, but in the big ones I end up having to catch up on 10 pages (and I'm reminding you English is not my mother tongue).
Then this new Classic thread should be right up your alley :)
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#91

Post by Ricochet »

Golden wrote:FZ, what is your first language? I had no idea.
I do. :nicenod:
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#92

Post by Ricochet »

FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
Is it a big crazy game?
Only the most awesome kind of big and crazy. :srsnod:
I can't keep up with those :sigh: Everything is just a mess in my head and it's so hard to catch up when all the real talking happens when I'm asleep. That's true for every game, but in the big ones I end up having to catch up on 10 pages (and I'm reminding you English is not my mother tongue).
Is it just the size of big, full games? Depending on the players on the roster, smaller games can also get intense lately. Unfortunately, I tend to contribute to that. :p
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#93

Post by Golden »

Ricochet wrote:
Golden wrote:FZ, what is your first language? I had no idea.
I do. :nicenod:
Oh, FZ speaks Nauruan. Got it.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#94

Post by FZ. »

Golden wrote:FZ, what is your first language? I had no idea.
It's a secret :P
S~V~S wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:FZ.!

Why you not in Star Wars? There's only one spot left! :omg:
Is it a big crazy game?
Only the most awesome kind of big and crazy. :srsnod:
I can't keep up with those :sigh: Everything is just a mess in my head and it's so hard to catch up when all the real talking happens when I'm asleep. That's true for every game, but in the big ones I end up having to catch up on 10 pages (and I'm reminding you English is not my mother tongue).
Then this new Classic thread should be right up your alley :)
I know. I love that it's added. But the bastards killed me :(


linki: Mostly the size. Too many players to remember who said what and who did what.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#95

Post by Golden »

FZ. wrote:
Golden wrote:FZ, what is your first language? I had no idea.
It's a secret :P
It's ok, rico gave it away.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#96

Post by Golden »

As for 'big crazy games' - I don't try to figure out everything that is going on. I focus on a handful of people (say, maybe 10) that I feel like I have reads on or that have stood out to me in some way. Often I feel like there is three games going on at once, and entire plot lines I'm just not a part of.

It's only when the game begins to close in and get to a more reasonable size that I try to get reads on everyone and understand everything that is going on.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#97

Post by Ricochet »

Golden wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Golden wrote:FZ, what is your first language? I had no idea.
It's a secret :P
It's ok, rico gave it away.
That easy to fool, ey? :shifty:

The only compatriot I found on mafia forums so far is someone on Jesus Toast Mafia (never played here).
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#98

Post by FZ. »

Golden wrote:As for 'big crazy games' - I don't try to figure out everything that is going on. I focus on a handful of people (say, maybe 10) that I feel like I have reads on or that have stood out to me in some way. Often I feel like there is three games going on at once, and entire plot lines I'm just not a part of.

It's only when the game begins to close in and get to a more reasonable size that I try to get reads on everyone and understand everything that is going on.
I usually don't survive that long...
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#99

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

I don't disagree Golden. I think I probably used language that sounded stronger than I intended -- I dig that certain structures and rules are traditional here and I don't want to sound like a mafia-xenophobic curmudgeon.

Obviously the methods I've honed for years in Mafia aren't really compatible with a survivalist game, but that doesn't mean I couldn't try other things. I think I would play completely differently in such a game and I'd probably be perceived as less useful, but maybe that's how it's gotta be. ;)
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#100

Post by FZ. »

so, how about bets on who is scum?
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#101

Post by FZ. »

Well, if anyone is following the game, this looks like a civ vs. civ lynch at the moment to me (Wilgy vs. zebra), but I will note that zebra doesn't seem as pissed as she was last game when people were accusing her, so it's making me doubt her civviness a little.

I still think Matt F is bad.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#102

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

I think Zebra's played a weird game if he's town.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#103

Post by Golden »

I still think zebra is bad,... I would have voted that way today.

I need to read back Matt F!
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#104

Post by FZ. »

Why do you think zebra is bad or playing weird? How is she being different? The thing that stood out to me was her lack of agitation when she was being accused. Last game she was going at it with Golden for thinking she's bad. But after that she calmed down a little, so I don't know.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#105

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Just for future reference I'm pretty sure Zebra is male.

I think he's highly suspicious because of his complete dismissiveness of accusations and half-hearted attempts to make everyone else dread lynching him.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#106

Post by Tangrowth »

Zebra actually is female; I had to clarify that with her. She recently has identified as being female, but this is in contrast with years previous, hence the confusion.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#107

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

MovingPictures07 wrote:Zebra actually is female; I had to clarify that with her. She recently has identified as being female, but this is in contrast with years previous, hence the confusion.
Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. Sorry when you see this, Zebra!
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The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#108

Post by Tangrowth »

With the cop dead, who will win?

You may select 1 option


Civilians
0
No votes
Mafia
3
Sorsha (2), JaggedJimmyJay (3), S~V~S (4) 75%
?????
1
MovingPictures07 (1) 25%
Total votes : 4
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#109

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Looks like I was wrong!

My gut is useless anyway. :P
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Golden
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#110

Post by Golden »

Damn, lol.

I think I just find zebra inherently suspicious. I'm going to have to get used to that.

The civs are going to have trouble getting back in from here I think. You only get four mislynches. That's two.
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a2thezebra
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#111

Post by a2thezebra »

STUPID FUCKING THUNDERSTORM
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a2thezebra
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#112

Post by a2thezebra »

S~V~S wrote:This is better in a thread than in a Chatzy.
Word.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra just defended someone with no questions asked. Unlike him.
Say what
Golden wrote:Changing my vote for zebra. I agree JJ. Zebra is twitching my nose, like he is trying to sound as civvie as possible.
Lotta misgendering up in here you cis scum
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra couldn't be much scummier at this point.

"I didn't even care enough to respond to it" translates to "Your case against me is weak and that's all I need to say to prevent people from voting for me."
No, it translates to "that's one of the dumbest cases I've ever seen and I'm tired and we're going to lose anyway so to hell with it"
FZ. wrote:Well, if anyone is following the game, this looks like a civ vs. civ lynch at the moment to me (Wilgy vs. zebra), but I will note that zebra doesn't seem as pissed as she was last game when people were accusing her, so it's making me doubt her civviness a little.

I still think Matt F is bad.
See, my reaction towards being accused depends entirely on how well-founded I think the accusation is. It usually goes like this:

Very well-reasoned accusation: Yeah I'm not going to lie that's pretty good and I should probably be lynched.
Fairly well-reasoned: *defends without trying to come off as aggressive*
Kind of but not really: *defends while showing a little aggression*
Poorly reasoned: *defends while pissed*
Horribly reasoned but town is eating it up: *gives up*
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Zebra actually is female; I had to clarify that with her. She recently has identified as being female, but this is in contrast with years previous, hence the confusion.
Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. Sorry when you see this, Zebra!
No need to be sorry, like MP said it's a recent (public anyway) thing.
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a2thezebra
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#113

Post by a2thezebra »

I hope mafia sympathy kills bea so this game won't be the end of her.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#114

Post by a2thezebra »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Looks like I was wrong!

My gut is useless anyway. :P
Your gut's fine, just remember:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's official forever:

meta is bullshit
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a2thezebra
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#115

Post by a2thezebra »

Golden wrote:Damn, lol.

I think I just find zebra inherently suspicious. I'm going to have to get used to that.

The civs are going to have trouble getting back in from here I think. You only get four mislynches. That's two.
Same here regarding you. :P

And I'm pretty certain the civs are screwed. It will take one hell of a comeback for them to win.
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FZ.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#116

Post by FZ. »

Ha, I told you zebra is civvie. I can't tell you how relieved I am. I was beginning to think I was completely out of it, lol.


Sorry to see you here zebra :( .Town is going to lose this if they don't pull together fast.

I say lynch Matt F. If I'm wrong about it, I'll shut up for the rest of the game :P
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#117

Post by a2thezebra »

Matt F is in the yellow zone for me. I wouldn't be surprised either way. And it's actually a bit of a relief to be here, now I don't have to worry about the responsibility.
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FZ.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#118

Post by FZ. »

a2thezebra wrote:Matt F is in the yellow zone for me. I wouldn't be surprised either way. And it's actually a bit of a relief to be here, now I don't have to worry about the responsibility.
What responsibility?

Who do you think is bad?
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Ricochet
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#119

Post by Ricochet »

I knew zebra was good.

...mostly because I never expressed any thoughts on whether zebra is bad or not.

:noble:
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#120

Post by a2thezebra »

FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Matt F is in the yellow zone for me. I wouldn't be surprised either way. And it's actually a bit of a relief to be here, now I don't have to worry about the responsibility.
What responsibility?

Who do you think is bad?
Just the responsibility of being one of the more active posters in a game where the civs are clearly losing. I think Tranq, Boomslang, and Wilgy are bad. Are you allowed to say here what your free ID was? More than one person was trying to convince me that you were leaving breadcrumbs that you knew Wilgy was good.
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FZ.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#121

Post by FZ. »

a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Matt F is in the yellow zone for me. I wouldn't be surprised either way. And it's actually a bit of a relief to be here, now I don't have to worry about the responsibility.
What responsibility?

Who do you think is bad?
Just the responsibility of being one of the more active posters in a game where the civs are clearly losing. I think Tranq, Boomslang, and Wilgy are bad. Are you allowed to say here what your free ID was? More than one person was trying to convince me that you were leaving breadcrumbs that you knew Wilgy was good.
I was ;) Sadly, I think the baddies got it better than the civvies.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#122

Post by a2thezebra »

Well, shucks. In that case: Tranq, Boomslang, MM.
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Turnip Head
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#123

Post by Turnip Head »

Enrique is bad y'all.
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Dragon D. Luffy
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#124

Post by Dragon D. Luffy »

Will other games get spectator chats or only this one?
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Epignosis
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#125

Post by Epignosis »

Not any of mine.
Stream my music for free: https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#126

Post by S~V~S »

Well, if MP shows me how to do it, I would think with both of us able to set them up, probably any host who wants one. I was thinking if he set one up in each forum, that we could plug people in or out of them as needed.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#127

Post by Tangrowth »

Any host who wants a spectator chat can get one.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#128

Post by Ricochet »

My games will have spectator threads, but they likely won't incorporate any lynch polls and I also wouldn't allow a dead cop or mafia that joins to spoil anything about how the game unfolds.
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#129

Post by Mongoose »

Matt F!?!? Poop on a pinwheel, how long have I been gone?
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Re: [SPECTATOR] Pet Sounds Mafia

#130

Post by Ricochet »

A mongoose! :faint:
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