Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[a2thezebra]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now. If he's scum, he should die. I can see defending him if you have a strong townread on him but saying no matter what is alignment is, you want him alive is just something I can't wrap my head around. I will do this if I need more time to figure someone out and give them another day but he's posted plenty of content. Same thing happened in Turf Wars that is happening here. I was right on some of the scum and I was arrested and no one listened to me and even after I died, I was still accused of being tinfoil. Same thing here, no one likes my playstyle so they get frustrated with it and by extension, ignore what I'm saying. It's beyond frustrating.

An active baddie is a baddie that can easily be connected to their teammates over time. Speaking as someone who is always active as a baddie, I know this for a fact. No one's ignoring what you're saying, I think you're ignoring what most others are saying. I think you're frustrated because deep down you know that this is the case but you are too stubborn to allow yourself to admit it. I've been there.

[Tangrowth]

Holy shit guys, IAWY is scummier than I expected. I'm feeling at least a moderate mafia read here. Stay tuned.

[a2thezebra]

That's yet another reason by the way that I oppose going after lower posters. If town does luck out by picking a lower poster that just happens to flip mafia, they still are at square one in all but numbers because the dead baddie doesn't have enough content to look for teammate connections.

[a2thezebra]

Holy shit guys, IAWY is scummier than I expected. I'm feeling at least a moderate mafia read here. Stay tuned.

I'm intrigued.

[sig]

Okay I'm good with MM, I did an ISO didn't see much but I saw enough that I'm fine with a day 1 lynch of him over zebra/MP.

His vote for Sloonie was really weird, and besides that he doesn't give much content, plus all his posts have pinged my gut.

VOTE METALMARSH89

[Marmot]

@MM can you explain your vote for Sloonie?

Also all what do you think of MM he doesn't have many posts, some fillers. He also has a scum read on MP yet doesn't say anything about it. (Pot calling kettle black ik) :P

linki: What does QFT mean?

I did explain my Sloonei vote, just a minute before I initially made the vote.

[Marmot]

Okay I'm good with MM, I did an ISO didn't see much but I saw enough that I'm fine with a day 1 lynch of him over zebra/MP.

His vote for Sloonie was really weird, and besides that he doesn't give much content, plus all his posts have pinged my gut.

VOTE METALMARSH89

Don't do that.

[a2thezebra]

From what I've read of IAWY (which has not been in isolation), he just seems kind of wacky. In a good way. None of what he's said has come across as alignment-indicative to me.

[a2thezebra]

Sloonei I don't want to contribute to your lynch if you are good, but that's hardly an explanation for your Sloonei vote.

[a2thezebra]

Haha I meant to say MM to begin the previous sentence.

[Marmot]

Haha I meant to say MM to begin the previous sentence.

That's so noncommittal zebra. Own your vote, dammit.

[Marmot]

Sloonei I don't want to contribute to your lynch if you are good, but that's hardly an explanation for your Sloonei vote.

Hold on then, let me walk you guys through why I think that Sloonei is mafia.

[Golden]

Holy shit guys, IAWY is scummier than I expected. I'm feeling at least a moderate mafia read here. Stay tuned.

We also have some 'quiet IAWY is scum meta' posts from someone who knows him.

It's almost silly to get to this point and it be about who I'm 'willing' to lynch - but frankly, I'm willing to lynch anyone on the 'scum' side of my rainbow.

[a2thezebra]

Haha I meant to say MM to begin the previous sentence.

That's so noncommittal zebra. Own your vote, dammit.

I know right? I'm just terrible.

[a2thezebra]

Sloonei I don't want to contribute to your lynch if you are good, but that's hardly an explanation for your Sloonei vote.

Hold on then, let me walk you guys through why I think that Sloonei is mafia.

Okay now we're talking.

[Golden]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now.

I did not say that. I said he should not get your vote because your reasons for suspecting him are NAI. That's all.

[Silverwolf]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now.

I did not say that. I said he should not get your vote because your reasons for suspecting him are NAI. That's all.

I was talking about Zebra saying that.

[a2thezebra]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now.

I did not say that. I said he should not get your vote because your reasons for suspecting him are NAI. That's all.

I think that was directed at me.

linki - yup

[Marmot]

But while I'm doing that, I want to hear from Golden as to why he voted for me. If we're talking unexplained votes, he takes the prize for worst offense.

[Tangrowth]

INAWORDYES

IAWY has 17 posts. I think I'll include them all.

Spoiler: show

Heyo! (closest thing to a wave I can find haha)

Okay, so where are is the "large" option in the post editor... Nah, I'll just quite somebody else to get it! Genius.

Fluffy entry post. Null.

Spoiler: show

Thanks. That's perfect.

Unvote

Ooh, okay. So I'm gonna go ahead and poke Frog since I know him from MU games. Heyo! How are you? WHY ARE YOU MAFIA?!?!? *cough* Ahem,I mean, "would it possible in any sort of context unique to both this world and any potential alternate realities that you could inform our inquiring minds just as to the current state of this fine game as perceived from your self and, potentially, a hint as to the true nature of where your alignments lie, to which you could also potentially be lying to us with a bold face and would need to understandably be punished?


VOTE FROG

Second post is a RVS-esque vote for Frog. Null.

Spoiler: show

oh, and I'm a guy. I'm not that Ina girl, she's pretty teh scummehs.

Off-topic post. Null.

Spoiler: show

Thanks. That's perfect.

Unvote

Ooh, okay. So I'm gonna go ahead and poke Frog since I know him from MU games. Heyo! How are you? WHY ARE YOU MAFIA?!?!? *cough* Ahem,I mean, "would it possible in any sort of context unique to both this world and any potential alternate realities that you could inform our inquiring minds just as to the current state of this fine game as perceived from your self and, potentially, a hint as to the true nature of where your alignments lie, to which you could also potentially be lying to us with a bold face and would need to understandably be punished?


VOTE FROG

1 - lmao, you verbose SOAB. Keep content short and sweet plox
2 - You never claimed to rand town (suspicious as fish)
3 - I don't usually like engaging in RVS silliness, but I'm doing pretty decent thanks for asking :-D About to head out to the bar next door. Congrats on F3 in the princess game btw, I'll give you a hint with respect to one of my secret identities:

Our hero, the intrepid Spaceman Spiff, struggles with the controls of his damaged spacecraft!

Haha, I'm free of the shackles MU has placed upon me, here I can be my unconstrained, usual self. I don't usually claim town, it's not how I play (MU is a different beast altogether, I'm not me when I'm there, so The Syndicate is like a proverbial kit-kat bar haha.

Well ain't that spiffy.
Spaceman Spiffy! Sorry for being instrumental in your mislynch D1!

I'm really burnt out by it though, and I wished MU had Mods on Duty because one was desperately needed. I'm also gonna be busy all day tomorrow, so I'm just gonna take this game to relax and unwind and be my fun and crazy self haha. Not to say I'll be inactive! But I'm sure I won't post 100+ times in a day haha, nor will I need to be right on the pulse with the game as everything's happening. If anyone objects to that type of attitude btw, it's completely fine, I probably worded it wrong.

Now, to catch up with the rest of the game...

First substantive post, but it's really just meta and discussing a desire for the MoD function on MU. It is a nice function. But yeah... where's the game-related content? This post was at Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:13:33 pm (Central time). Plenty had happened in the game by that point; that's over 10 hours worth of content. He did mention he was catching up though, so let's see what else he says. Null, I guess? But I don't like it.

Spoiler: show

Alright. I'm just going to blend into the background so you guys get some time to develop some disputes. Then I will point at the scums using the highly scientific method of "spin the bottle".

- Kisses

LYNCH TEH SCUMMEH!

Joke post. Null.

Spoiler: show

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

Zexy is towny as flip.

Zexy + Sig = Town

Marco + Sloonei = scum teamish - On page 2 Marco randomly defends Sloonei. Lol. Obv slip is obvious.

The biggest test of a baddie team claim is if one of them would still be scummy enough to be a baddie if you lynch the other and they flip goodie. It sounds like Marco would fail that test if you only think he's a baddie for defending Sloonei, so I'm inclined to think that would make him a goodie.

The logic probably doesn't hold though haha, and that's fine!

Somewhat of a mechanics discussion post re: baddie team claim. However, he does throw out a read... somewhat. You can see it in orange.

What concerns me is the yellow. He immediately discounts his theory stated right above by saying "Well, this probably isn't true because my logic sucks!" I'm not totally sure what to do with this (input from those reading is welcome), but I'd say I'm leaning mafia on this for the very reason that he seems nervous and like he doesn't want his opinion to be noted. It's like he's discrediting himself. In talking with him a bit outside of mafia though, this seems consistent with his personality, so I don't think this is a strong point.

Spoiler: show

I lean town on Psittaciform’s first post. Because meta. Only a lean, though.

What Frog’s done in the beginning is scummy (strategy talk + RVS hypocrisy), but votes piled up a bit too easily which made me paranoid, mostly about Marco. And Frog’s accusations of Marco are really good and he brings up towny points, although he overdoes it with TMI at some point. And there’s some tunneling going on here. I have more trouble accepting a Marco/Sloonei team than just Marco being mafia in the two.

Yet when it comes to Sloonei VS Frog, while Sloonei looks like he wins the argument easily, there is paranoia that kicks in as well. Sloonei’s cases are a bit too perfect. If he is so good, assuming he’s town, it means he could be good scum as well…

That’s it for now, will be back later.

Lol, nothing is scummy- I'm suggesting optimal strategy and pointing out things to keep eyes on. Literally none of my points have been refuted on a logical basis- all of my perspectives, warrants and basis for claims remain intact. Instead we see Sloonei and Marco discrediting my content based on fallacious logic, often times side stepping my points entirely.

It's quite sad to see your scum game Zexy

Ultimately you're shoving a false narrative that straddles every side. I don't like it.

You'd fit right in with our resident strategist plasmid over at MafiaManiac. He's always looking for the optimal strategy to break any game design, especially when he's a player in it.

Off-topic! Null.

Spoiler: show

Since I'm playing to my standard MMMeta, might as well continue the RVS! D1 is the time to hear from everyone, so since Soneji is the only who left who hasn't checked in yet, my vote goes with him for the moment. Heyo Soneji! How are you doing? TELL US THE NAMES OF YUR SCUMMEHS!!!

*cough* Ahem, who would you, er, "conveniently" place as your list of baddies? Yeah, that's a good question. I'll show him!]/s]

I already commented on this post earlier in the game as a point against IAWY. I don't like it because it demonstrates a conscious effort of playing to one's own meta. A member of the mafia must be more conscious of that than a townie, I would say.

Additionally, he shows the intention to throw a vote onto the only player at that time (I'm pretty sure everyone had posted by then; someone can double check me on this) who had not yet posted, seemingly as a way to get Soneji to talk. It's a weak vote, for sure.

Mafia lean definitely.

Spoiler: show

Is "sig" the "sjg" on MU?

Off-topic again. Null again.

Spoiler: show

Since I'm playing to my standard MMMeta, might as well continue the RVS! D1 is the time to hear from everyone, so since Soneji is the only who left who hasn't checked in yet, my vote goes with him for the moment. Heyo Soneji! How are you doing? TELL US THE NAMES OF YUR SCUMMEHS!!!

*cough* Ahem, who would you, er, "conveniently" place as your list of baddies? Yeah, that's a good question. I'll show him!]/s]

Whoops!

VOTE SONEJI

Here he actually declares a vote for Soneji that he stated two posts above. Refer to my mafia lean from that post; it applies here.

Spoiler: show

Inaword, Why is your vote on a complete lurker? You have like no game content so far, just being lol haha flowers yay.

VOTE INAWORDYES

Yay, a vote! Someone likes me!

Haha sorry, I'm playing less like MU and more like MM, and on my homesite we tend to RVS the players who haven't posted or voted on D1 because our games are role-heavy. We go for getting as much info on everybody rather than necessarily figuring out the scum team straight-out. I was also busy all day today so I didn't have any time to come in and adapt to new info. I'm catching up now though, so if there's anything of interest that y'all want me to take a look at, quote it and let me know! I probably won't reply to much on my catch up, so feel free to call attention to something I may have skipped over too.

Dizzy threw a vote on Inawordyes, and this is his response to said vote. It's a meta defense. Then he promises he's catching up now and says that if there's anything of interest to let him know.

Hold on though. Take a look at that orange sentence. That's cover for playing under the radar if I've ever seen it this game. Why would a town player say this? It's one thing to say you're busy, but another to say in advance that you probably won't reply to much while catching up. How can a player know what kind of content will await them as they're catching up? In doing so, IAWY is anti-promising content to the rest of the thread. Mafia lean.

Spoiler: show

Since I'm playing to my standard MMMeta, might as well continue the RVS! D1 is the time to hear from everyone, so since Soneji is the only who left who hasn't checked in yet, my vote goes with him for the moment. Heyo Soneji! How are you doing? TELL US THE NAMES OF YUR SCUMMEHS!!!

*cough* Ahem, who would you, er, "conveniently" place as your list of baddies? Yeah, that's a good question. I'll show him!]

I'm pinged here by inawordyes's declaration that he is playing to his own meta. Dom caught me in Arkham Mafia for saying this same thing. It indicates the mindset of someone who is purposefully making posts with the intention of playing to an existing standard, which can be defended against with the mere declaration that it's "my meta".

Huh, nice catch! That Ina girl is pretty teh scummehs.

Haha I didn't really mean anything by it, I was just commenting that I was gonna play as myself, my standard play, rather than the aggressive MU play that I have to adopt to adapt. I guess saying meta kinda soured the whole intent though, so I'm sorry for that.

Any questions you have about my meta? I can link games from across my MM spectrum for reference if you guys want.

Check out that orange again. If IAWY didn't mean anything by it, then why did he tell us this?

The rest of his post is fair enough. I don't know the difference between his MU and MM meta, but maybe someone here does, and this post was intended for them. Otherwise, this post provides meaningless content. Every post he makes here after saying at least twice he was catching up is a post he could have used to express a read, a thought about someone. We don't get any.

Mafia lean, although more slight than the previous ones I've declared.

Spoiler: show

I don't have an overview over who knows who, who's from here and how familiar this type of setup is to people, and I'd really like to have that.

So I'll just state that:
- I've played a couple of games with PSI.
- I'm not from here (but I really like the site *buddies everyone)
- I consider this setup pretty standard.

And if other would like to share that would be appreciated.

I like this.

- I'm a fairly regular member of the Syndicate community and have played with most of the players in this game, but this is not my "home" site.
- Players I've not played with before are: Dyslexicon, Frog, Inawordyes, Marco, Psittacitform, Zexy.
- Played exactly 1 game with each of Ika, Soneji, Silverwolf
- I've never played a semi-open setup before, and I've not heavily played in games with role claiming in years, and even when I did I was never big on doing it.
- I'll be playing in the Champs tournament next month, can't wait to see you other dudes there, whoever you are.

I'll do this myself as well.
- I have played extensively with most of the players in this game, and it is my home site.
- Players I've not played with before are: Dyslexicon, Frog, ika, Inawordyes, Marco, Psittacitform, Silverwolf, and Zexy.
- Played exactly 1 game with Soneji, but it was on NF and I sucked.
- I've never played a semi-open setup before in my over 5 years of playing, and I've not heavily played in games with role claiming until the past year. I've played maybe a handful of such games.
- I'm the alternate for the Champs tournament on TS, so I'll get to watch Golden kick some ass.

Why not!

- I am a first-time Syndicate member, but I have extensive Forumafia experience on my homesite, MafiaManiac, and also am a regular on Mafia Universe.
- Players I have played at least one game with before are: Frog, Zexy, Kia, and sig.
- I've played in several semi-open setups, both on my homesite and on MU. Almost every game I've played on MM involve role claiming because there are rarely if ever any vanilla goodies, though some players who host dislike claiming and actively try to work game mechanics in to discourage it (such as a player losing their action the following night if they claim).
- I am currently in the running for being the MM rep for the Champs tournament, but I am not one of the high-nominated players and will likely at this point be neither the rep nor the alternate.

Here IAWY follows Dizzy's format with regards to providing meta information. Null.

Spoiler: show

However- going to have to agree with you. Ore flip associations are usually lol. But let the ENTP in me lay out all of the tinfoils anyway!!!

You're ENTP? You should join PersonalityCafe lol \o/

I'm INTJ.

INFP checking in! I'm like a unicorn among the personality types because I'm a guy haha.

Off-topic. Null.

Spoiler: show

Psittaciform only has 2 posts: First one looked townish, second one was null, need to see a lot more here

Inawordyes-vote for Soneji is bad, even I don't agree with voting someone who has posting nothing at all, claims it is RVS but why hasn't he moved it yet then? null scum lean

Went through my other nulls-they are still null, I need to see more

So basically I have Golden and Inawordyes as possible scum so far, a few townreads, and lots of null reads, MP's latest posts are ok, I'm curious how he will react after all his questions are answered-I want to see his final analysis, reads

I don't want to seem like I'm just responding to posts about me, but let's be honest, that's probably all I'll do and I'll get lynched for it.

How it generally works on MM is that people RVS, but they'll try to band together to get a mini bandwagon going on someone early just to kinda get them talking, because some people have the tendency to clam up or lurk (as either alignment) and the threat of getting lynched usually into the thread. Obviously that won't work because there's a maj in effect, but I still like voting for players who aren't here because I usually don't have good reads D1 and it gives them someone to ease their way into the thread, because instead of just thinking "well what can I post?", they can start by addressing he vote and any questions the voter has.

It's a cultural thing, you're free to call me out on it though! I did say I wasn't gonna be here, so leaning me baddie for not really reading my ISO that thoroughly is understandable, but a bit misguided.

Orange again. He's telling us what he'll probably do again, this time by saying he's just probably going to respond to posts about him. Why doesn't he care to hunt though? I know this is a jokey sentence, but I don't understand why he's so averse to providing any game-related content by which he can catch mafia and by which others can judge him.

This yellow stuff is meta talk. More meta talk. I'm starting to feel a bit wary about all of it. Mafia lean.

Spoiler: show

If this is how the game is going to be played i am probablly just going to replace out and not sign up anymore.

It's not fun it's just manipulating mechanics

To an extent I'd have to agree. I wanna be able to sit back and find Mafia and just play the game for fun. Trying to find and create an optimal strategy and exploiting it isn't really that fun, it's taking the fun out of playing the game and ending it quickly for the sake of winning.

It's a good idea, don't get me wrong, I guess I'm just kinda burnt out from all of that after playing Disney Princesses (another pre-championship Matrix 12 game on MU).

Here IAWY agrees with ika and in doing so disagrees with a mechanics-based solving approach that Frog proposed. Null, I think, but for those of you who care to track those who were proposed to Frog's various plans, here's something for you.

Spoiler: show

Zexy, I have the following questions and comments regarding this reads list of yours:
1) What good points has Golden brought up?
2) How does the method by which Marco post make his activity faked? What do you think of the content of his "one-liners"? I find the fact that you are considering the method rather than the content of his activity as the basis of your read suspect.
3) What's the strange cover you are referring to with respect to IAWY? I can't recall off the top of my head after doing all that reading.

Thanks, Zexy! You're the best for dealing with all of my questions, assuming you continue to do so.

Also, what is slank cover, anyone?

1 The entire reasoning behind his reads on Sloonei, Sig, Marco. Even myself, I could see why he scumread me for a while, and why he changed his mind after we interacted. His points on Silverwolf’s behavior were good, and again he changed his mind after learning more about her.
2 I believed the content of his one-liners was just there so he would look active. Although he’s overly analytical now and I can see where he’s coming from. Will have to ISO him to put those posts in a townier perspective.
3) Slank cover = people announcing they will be inactive before the game or shortly after the game begins. IAWY’s slank cover is a bit strange, he’s talking about some new philosophy he will play the game by…

Psitacci’s activity is so low it’s suspicious. I mean, he’s inactive when town. But VERY inactive when scum.

I’d like to see a rainbow list from MARCO at some point. He said he doesn’t do them… but tbh I see no reason any townie ever wouldn’t like to do them.

Marco 43 – Too many one-liners, kinda “fake” activity if you ask me. Not feeling too good about him yet.

What do people think about this? I ISO'd myself and I can sort of see some one-liners, but I can't really see how Zexy is calling my activity fake. She feels disingenuous IMO. I have had other reasons to suspect Zexy, too, but it could be that it's OMGUS-motivated, so I request others to ISO me and tell me what they think about Zexy's read on me.

I commented on this already, but I wanted to emphasize it, because it's currently one of the strongest points against Zexy being town in my opinion. This could be a way for a mafia Zexy to fabricate a suspicion, but the train of thought is flawed (criticizing your method of posting rather than your content).

Methods of posting can be towny or scummy irregardless of the content itself. Ever heard of tone reading? I can see your point here, but scum!me wouldn’t drop the scum lean on Marco this soon.

12 is read.

Nah, not "new philosophy", to adapt to MU's games I had to serious alter how I play. I got burnt out and now I'm hoping I can go back to my roots, where admittedly I'm a lurker haha, and just kinda take it easy in this game. I was legitimately busy and gone all day, though.

More meta talk. He does provide RL cover by saying he was legitimately busy and gone all day.

But he even admits he's a lurker.

Look, I get that fully engaging in a mafia game is emotionally tiring, time sucking, many other things. It takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. But IAWY hasn't provided a single real piece of game-related content by which he can be judged in 17 posts. In 17 posts he's given no opinion on me, Silverwolf, ika, literally any other player but himself. He constantly provides meta and slank cover.

He's definitely a moderate mafia read, and the strongest mafia read I have right now. He needs to get in here and provide some content.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you all think? Which points do you agree with? Disagree with? Please tell me your thoughts.

[Tangrowth]

VOTE INAWORDYES

[Golden]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now.

I did not say that. I said he should not get your vote because your reasons for suspecting him are NAI. That's all.

I was talking about Zebra saying that.

Oh, right. Sorry!

[Golden]

But while I'm doing that, I want to hear from Golden as to why he voted for me. If we're talking unexplained votes, he takes the prize for worst offense.

Because (until just now) you weren't talking.

I've been on board with Frog's plan of voting amongst the four low posters from the word go - so far, you, Wilgy and zebra have all tasted my suspicion bat. The only reason Psi hasn't is because he won't post and I don't know him.

[Zexy]

Alright, so, I exist, had a really busy day and just have to go to bed sometime soon.
Unfortunately, there is absolutely no way I'm going to catch up to 10 pages of posts in time

I see that there has been a huge shift to MetalMarsh close to EOD. I don't really disagree with it, and I don't think any of the other wagons is better. Never thought of MP as really scummy. I also definitely don't trust the people in Sloonei's 2-vote wagon. a2thezebra would be fine with me... but considering how no one is after her anymore I guess you have good reason to read her town as of now.

So I'll stick to my current vote, no reason not to...

see you all laterz

[a2thezebra]

I read through your IAWY ISO analysis MP, and I honestly agree with very little of it. Admittedly I've never played with him before, but most of what you're seeing as indicative that he is bad, I'm seeing as indicative that his playing style is rather unorthodox.

[Tangrowth]

I'm going to ISO Wilgy next, then Zexy, then I think I'll feel confident enough to put up a rainbow.

[Tangrowth]

I read through your IAWY ISO analysis MP, and I honestly agree with very little of it. Admittedly I've never played with him before, but most of what you're seeing as indicative that he is bad, I'm seeing as indicative that his playing style is rather unorthodox.

That's fair enough. I was mafia reading ika for similar reasons (not providing substantively-backed reads), but at least ika was throwing out something.

What did you think of his constant meta cover?

[Marmot]

Somebody tell me who I should vote for. I am not going to be able to read this thread tonight. Or tomorrow. Or the next day. I probably should have stayed on the sidelines.

Sloonei pops in and says this last night, asking everyone who he should vote for. Ika was the first one to respond to him with movingpictures, to which Sloonei immediately asks why.

Somebody tell me who I should vote for. I am not going to be able to read this thread tonight. Or tomorrow. Or the next day. I probably should have stayed on the sidelines.

moving picutre

Why?

And again.

Somebody tell me who I should vote for. I am not going to be able to read this thread tonight. Or tomorrow. Or the next day. I probably should have stayed on the sidelines.

moving picutre

Why?

you asked who to vote for noting else

Now I'm asking why. Why?

But after ika gives Sloonei MP's name, Frog chimes in with a list of 4 names. Here is Sloonei's response.

Somebody tell me who I should vote for. I am not going to be able to read this thread tonight. Or tomorrow. Or the next day. I probably should have stayed on the sidelines.

I already gave you 4 names, let me lead
[*]Marshmellow
[*]Pilfirmous
[*]Dr Wigly
[*]A2Zebra

I won't vote metalmarsh because being flaky and elusive early on is his MO. I won't vote Pligifudhdjd because they're a stranger and I don't want to vote a stranger on Day 1 without substance to back me up. Zebra is sometimes quiet and sometimes aggressive early on. Her quietness, in my experience, has been either because she's scum or is busy. I could vote for her.
Wilgy is normally a vocal player but Imm pretty sure he's currently in a tense late-game situation in Spirited Away so his semi-absence here would be explainable.

Zebra is my top choice of these names, I guess. I'll have a look.

Sloonei doesn't ask why, but takes those four names and narrows his options down to zebra. He then comes up with a weak case on zebra.

This isn't spam by the way because I'm making a crucial point with these posts.

D.

Okay, now I have a total of 11 posts. I am no longer in the bottom four.

...And yet I am just as likely to be bad as I was before I started posting.

Frog can deny it all he wants, but the methods he's using to base his vote are absolutely advocating a policy lynch.

This seems like zebra is just trying to be contrarian and throw a wrench in Frog's proposed plan, but the stated reasoning does not really seem effective or sensible. Just "I'm going to tell you this plan is bad because I can."

Then he votes for zebra.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA, happy!?

Addendum: Sloonei treats the interactions with ika and Frog in these circumstances way too differently. Ika suggests he vote MP, and does give reasons why, but ika asks for evidence, before disappearing. Then you have the Frog interaction, where Sloonei readily narrowed his vote down to zebra, voted for zebra (with the strange reluctant "Happy!?" thrown in), and hasn't posted since.

I realize Sloonei has very limited time this game, but I still don't like this sequence. I think Sloonei is bad.

[Tangrowth]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now. If he's scum, he should die. I can see defending him if you have a strong townread on him but saying no matter what is alignment is, you want him alive is just something I can't wrap my head around. I will do this if I need more time to figure someone out and give them another day but he's posted plenty of content. Same thing happened in Turf Wars that is happening here. I was right on some of the scum and I was arrested and no one listened to me and even after I died, I was still accused of being tinfoil. Same thing here, no one likes my playstyle so they get frustrated with it and by extension, ignore what I'm saying. It's beyond frustrating.

I actually agree with you here. If any of you has me as your top mafia read, by all means, follow your (incorrect) conscience and vote for me. But I'm not one to tell others how to play. I just don't want anyone to give me a pass.

[a2thezebra]

I read through your IAWY ISO analysis MP, and I honestly agree with very little of it. Admittedly I've never played with him before, but most of what you're seeing as indicative that he is bad, I'm seeing as indicative that his playing style is rather unorthodox.

That's fair enough. I was mafia reading ika for similar reasons (not providing substantively-backed reads), but at least ika was throwing out something.

What did you think of his constant meta cover?

I think its nervousness of being new here combined with probably being suspected for meta-related reasons a lot, so for him I imagine that it is fairly instinctive to use meta as a defense. I'm not sure about him, but none of what you pointed out as suspicious really gripped me in the same way.

[Tangrowth]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now. If he's scum, he should die. I can see defending him if you have a strong townread on him but saying no matter what is alignment is, you want him alive is just something I can't wrap my head around. I will do this if I need more time to figure someone out and give them another day but he's posted plenty of content. Same thing happened in Turf Wars that is happening here. I was right on some of the scum and I was arrested and no one listened to me and even after I died, I was still accused of being tinfoil. Same thing here, no one likes my playstyle so they get frustrated with it and by extension, ignore what I'm saying. It's beyond frustrating.

An active baddie is a baddie that can easily be connected to their teammates over time. Speaking as someone who is always active as a baddie, I know this for a fact. No one's ignoring what you're saying, I think you're ignoring what most others are saying. I think you're frustrated because deep down you know that this is the case but you are too stubborn to allow yourself to admit it. I've been there.

This is also true though. But I'm generally more in favor of low poster lynches than zebra is. Difference in opinion and playstyle.

[Golden]

Saying even if MP is scum, he should live because he's active and helpful, is just blowing my mind right now. If he's scum, he should die. I can see defending him if you have a strong townread on him but saying no matter what is alignment is, you want him alive is just something I can't wrap my head around. I will do this if I need more time to figure someone out and give them another day but he's posted plenty of content. Same thing happened in Turf Wars that is happening here. I was right on some of the scum and I was arrested and no one listened to me and even after I died, I was still accused of being tinfoil. Same thing here, no one likes my playstyle so they get frustrated with it and by extension, ignore what I'm saying. It's beyond frustrating.

By the way, I agree with the sentiment. It doesn't matter how active someone is, if you have good reason to think they are scum you should vote for them. No one should be given a pass 'because they are active'.

[Marmot]

But while I'm doing that, I want to hear from Golden as to why he voted for me. If we're talking unexplained votes, he takes the prize for worst offense.

Because (until just now) you weren't talking.

I've been on board with Frog's plan of voting amongst the four low posters from the word go - so far, you, Wilgy and zebra have all tasted my suspicion bat. The only reason Psi hasn't is because he won't post and I don't know him.

Alright, there's no arguing that plan, because tbh I think it's a reasonable one to make.

[Tangrowth]

Holy shit guys, IAWY is scummier than I expected. I'm feeling at least a moderate mafia read here. Stay tuned.

We also have some 'quiet IAWY is scum meta' posts from someone who knows him.

It's almost silly to get to this point and it be about who I'm 'willing' to lynch - but frankly, I'm willing to lynch anyone on the 'scum' side of my rainbow.

That is something to consider that I failed to mention in my ISO. At least with MM and LC I have meta giving me doubts. I don't know IAWY's meta, so perhaps I judged him more harshly, but I considered that when writing my assessment. I think others should as well.

With regards to your "scum side" lynch sentiment, I'm with you there.

[Tangrowth]

Alright, so, I exist, had a really busy day and just have to go to bed sometime soon.
Unfortunately, there is absolutely no way I'm going to catch up to 10 pages of posts in time

I see that there has been a huge shift to MetalMarsh close to EOD. I don't really disagree with it, and I don't think any of the other wagons is better. Never thought of MP as really scummy. I also definitely don't trust the people in Sloonei's 2-vote wagon. a2thezebra would be fine with me... but considering how no one is after her anymore I guess you have good reason to read her town as of now.

So I'll stick to my current vote, no reason not to...

see you all laterz

You won't be back for EoD? Man, bummer.

[Tangrowth]

I appreciate you elaborating on your Sloonei read, MM, but I don't agree. That all seems very within Sloonei's meta to me.

[a2thezebra]

While I disagree with MM's case on Sloonei, it does seem like a genuine case. I'm inclined to switch to Long Con now but I don't want MP lynched.

[Tangrowth]

I read through your IAWY ISO analysis MP, and I honestly agree with very little of it. Admittedly I've never played with him before, but most of what you're seeing as indicative that he is bad, I'm seeing as indicative that his playing style is rather unorthodox.

That's fair enough. I was mafia reading ika for similar reasons (not providing substantively-backed reads), but at least ika was throwing out something.

What did you think of his constant meta cover?

I think its nervousness of being new here combined with probably being suspected for meta-related reasons a lot, so for him I imagine that it is fairly instinctive to use meta as a defense. I'm not sure about him, but none of what you pointed out as suspicious really gripped me in the same way.

That could be true. I appreciate your feedback. I'll look over his posts again and mull over it more before putting up my rainbow.

[Tangrowth]

While I disagree with MM's case on Sloonei, it does seem like a genuine case. I'm inclined to switch to Long Con now but I don't want MP lynched.

I agree. I'm willing to move MM up to at least null, if not slight town.

[Tangrowth]

Okay, Wilgy ISO time.

[Marmot]

I don't think the sequence of posts I have described falls within your description of his meta MP.

Meta on Sloonei: Has randed town a ridiculous amount of times more than mafia. In my experience of seeing him mafia (only a couple of times when I was a fellow player, then add another time as a spectator), he just couldn't quite capture the same magnitude of that "town spark" he exudes in sheer effort and inquisitiveness when town, and as a result he was lynched as mafia very early every time I witnessed (d1, d1, and d...2? can't remember that last one). My initial impression of his meta was that he is very much a level-headed, systematic question asker who gradually chips away at every other player in the game, but nonetheless never expressing too much certainty with regards to reads. More recently, I've seen him adapt more confidence in his reads, particularly early in games, and become more aggressive with accusations. Before I would have said that his lack of tunneling was a slight town Sloonei indicator, but lately I'm less sure and am inclined to say it's switched to a slight mafia Sloonei indcator, and that he was lynched as mafia because he didn't seem sure enough of his convictions. Overall I'd say he tends to be a mix of gut/tone and analysis-based with regards to accusations, but that underlying all of his accusations is a very meticulous post analysis regardless of whether it's tone or vote behavior that pings him.

[Marmot]

And if it does, it falls into his mafia meta as you have described it.

[a2thezebra]

It's funny that Sloonei's current reputation involves being town much more than mafia, but when he was building his legacy on RYM in his first few games he was almost always mafia.

[a2thezebra]

MM, how do you feel about Long Con's vote for Sloonei?

[Tangrowth]

And if it does, it falls into his mafia meta as you have described it.

That's fair, you're right that a failure to match his meta completely is more historically indicative of mafia Sloonei from what I've seen than town Sloonei. I think it's at least as believable that he just is too busy though, like he warned us he would be.

I mean, I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't discount all the other stuff in Sloonei's behavior from what I can remember. To be fair, I need to ISO him, but he has a decent amount of posts and I don't think I have enough time. If you want, I can try to ISO him instead of Zexy, since I'm more strongly town reading Zexy before my ISO exercises. Or feel free to ISO him yourself as well, I'd be more than happy to comment on it.

[Marmot]

MM, how do you feel about Long Con's vote for Sloonei?

His vote is pretty meaningless. If I had placed a vote like that, I would change it before the end of the day.

[Tangrowth]

Or maybe zebra, since she already ISOed him, can provide some tangible details for all of us to discuss.

[Tangrowth]

MM, how do you feel about Long Con's vote for Sloonei?

His vote is pretty meaningless. If I had placed a vote like that, I would change it before the end of the day.

Yes, this is town MM. I'm digging it. You heard my call to arms, didn't you?

[a2thezebra]

Or maybe zebra, since she already ISOed him, can provide some tangible details for all of us to discuss.

Regarding Sloonei?

[a2thezebra]

Or Long Con?