Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[ika]

I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.

So you did kill her.

If I was scum, yes that would be the case.

So are you confessing or are you saying that you were framed?

framed obviously.

[ika]

I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.

I was so smugly going to call you out for your contradiction until I realized this said "wouldn't". >_>

ok i do have to ask if it snot to much are you male or female? its been kinda buggin me

[ika]

im just going to ctl f my name

[Marmot]

does someone want to give em a rundown of what happened while iw as gone? i went back to work and didnt read since

I voted for you once, before moving it to other things.

I hoped you could make a case on MP.

[Inawordyes]

Do the moment, I guess I'll start getting some info from mynp nulls reads. Since Gikden is here, may as wel, start with him!

VOTE GOLDEN

Heyo Golden! I fully intend to change my vote to someone else, but right now I have you in my larger-than-it-should-be list of null reads, so since you're here right I'd like to have some sort of interaction. Anything you can tell me about your reads and specifically some thoughts on myself, Soneji (who is currently my only Mafia read) and MP (who seems to be a bit shady)?

[ika]

Tell them this on downton they don't believe me. :P
But seriously, this is what I've been saying and I really dislike MM for pushing that Ika must be civ.

about what?

are you thinking im scum?

[Inawordyes]

For the moment, I guess I'll start getting some info from my nulls reads. Since Golden is here, may as well start with him!

VOTE GOLDEN

Heyo Golden! I fully intend to change my vote to someone else, but right now I have you in my larger-than-it-should-be list of null reads, so since you're here right I'd like to have some sort of interaction. Anything you can tell me about your reads and specifically some thoughts on myself, Soneji (who is currently my only Mafia read) and MP (who seems to be a bit shady)?

Ouch, such bad grammar in that opening sentence haha. EBWOP

[ika]

ok i got lazy about reading.

someoen jsut quote themselfs if i missed anythign

[Marmot]

does someone want to give em a rundown of what happened while iw as gone? i went back to work and didnt read since

I voted for you once, before moving it to other things.

I hoped you could make a case on MP.

Please read this post ika.

[ika]

does someone want to give em a rundown of what happened while iw as gone? i went back to work and didnt read since

I voted for you once, before moving it to other things.

I hoped you could make a case on MP.

Please read this post ika.

the case was explained yesterday/today repeated, its follow up on sivlers death and his weak case and his over defensiveness and discredits

i dont buy either that MP did not account town!vig, i think he knowledge slipped that its scum vig

[Inawordyes]

I'm going to bed now, have some stuff to do in the morning. Quote me or leave me notes if you post something that you want my reaction on, I'll change the vote from Golden most likely, so don't be alarmed that it's staying overnight.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The deadline for Day 2 is in 20 hours and 37 minutes at precisely 10:00 PM eastern US/Canada time on Tuesday.

[Marmot]

does someone want to give em a rundown of what happened while iw as gone? i went back to work and didnt read since

I voted for you once, before moving it to other things.

I hoped you could make a case on MP.

Please read this post ika.

the case was explained yesterday/today repeated, its follow up on sivlers death and his weak case and his over defensiveness and discredits

i dont buy either that MP did not account town!vig, i think he knowledge slipped that its scum vig

Would you be able to pull any quotes on it?

I recall what happened at the start of this day, but I'm not bothered by it. For what it's worth, sig also made a similar mistake, though in his case, he just didn't notice the civ vig in the matrix.

[Inawordyes]

I just realized that it was a bad idea to choose Golden to start haha. Please don't maj him while I'm asleep, I want to talk to him.

[Marco]

1. Yes, he was meta-gaming throughout the latter half. In my experience, it's best to not lynch such players Day 1. This is why I can understand Sloonei taking his vote off Frog. Regardless of Frog's alignment, it was guaranteed that he'd interact with people a lot and that would give us a lot of reads.

2. Well, MM and MP were the lynch candidates. MM tried to start a wagon on Sloonei but people moved on to IAWY instead. An IAWY flip would give us info on the voters who switched to him and insight into Sloonei's and MP's alignment. MM was a divisive read for a lot of people and he had his own leads. His death would've clarified quite a bit too. What info did we get from the Frog flip?

On 2 - explain to me what info we get from voters who 'switched to him' and how we get into the alignments of MM and MP if IAWY was town, in a way that we would not have gotten exactly the same from people who moved away from MM and IAWY to Frog, and the alignments of MM and IAWY? I can't see how these two things are different? Expressly tell me what kind of info we would have gotten, and why, from a town IAWY flip and why we do not have analagous information from a Frog flip. I don't understand this at all.

From my perspective, the reason we don't have data from a frog town flip is primarily because we have no scum flips to try and factor in what it means. It may give us information later. But similarly, an IAWY town flip feels like it would be exactly the same to me... I can't fathom what useful information would have come from it.

IAWY wagon started after MM tried to start a wagon on Sloonei. MP and Silver were the ones who started it IIRC. And Sloonei also voted for IAWY. There was arguably an effort to save MM or MP behind the IAWY wagon. Same can't be said for Frog. If people wanted to save MM or IAWY, they could've piled on the other. Frog wagon doesn't give us info on the voters because they couldn't have been trying to save a scummate unless both MM and IAWY are scum, which seems like a stretch to me.

MetalMarsh89, you scum-read Golden, correct? And Golden, you scum-read MM, right?

Correct. I have a light scum-read on Golden.

I don't have anything to say to your suggestion that we are distancing and mafia teammates. It's not the first time I've heard it today, nor do I expect it to be the last.

Who else said it today? I must have missed it.

I know zebra said it here.

I thought sig also acknowledged the possibility, but I can't find it, so perhaps I'm mistaken there.

Hmm. I was hoping it was someone besides zebra.

Regardless of Frog's alignment, it was guaranteed that he'd interact with people a lot and that would give us a lot of reads.

Here's the thing though... he wasn't. After his early interactions with you guys, he literally essentially stopped interacting with people. At least that was my impression. He got fixated on four names and no longer engaged in anything else. That's why I struggle to see what we lost as lost value. There is a difference between 'active and vocal' and actually providing content. He wasn't.

He stated his motivation for that. He believed that we needed some flips before really getting into the thick of hunting. He was satisfied with the interactions he had last phase and he wasn't interested in pursuing people who added value on Day 1. He'd made it clear that he was just waiting for Day 2 to start before getting back into the thick of it. You have to realize that 72 hours is a really long duration. It's easy to get burnt out when you're used to discussing over a shorter period, especially in an RVS stage.

[Marmot]

I'm going to bed now, have some stuff to do in the morning. Quote me or leave me notes if you post something that you want my reaction on, I'll change the vote from Golden most likely, so don't be alarmed that it's staying overnight.

Have a good night. And remember, do the moment!!@#R%@#T#Q

[ika]

does someone want to give em a rundown of what happened while iw as gone? i went back to work and didnt read since

I voted for you once, before moving it to other things.

I hoped you could make a case on MP.

Please read this post ika.

the case was explained yesterday/today repeated, its follow up on sivlers death and his weak case and his over defensiveness and discredits

i dont buy either that MP did not account town!vig, i think he knowledge slipped that its scum vig

Would you be able to pull any quotes on it?

I recall what happened at the start of this day, but I'm not bothered by it. For what it's worth, sig also made a similar mistake, though in his case, he just didn't notice the civ vig in the matrix.

iso silver, if sig made that slip i would pin him next after MP.

if he read matrix he should see town vig easy.

[Marmot]

Marco, if not zebra, who were you hoping made such a comment in the thread?

[ika]

Look, I'm not trying to anger either of you. I respect and like you both. You're both very swell people. I know you haven't used it directly, but it inevitably affects the way you both play the game, and it can victimize players who dare question either of you or the meta reads that you display for each other. I'm being mafia read because Silverwolf doesn't like the case I made on you.

and there have been a multitude of games where silver called out scumm based on that reaosn alone. it it doesnt even haev to be on me, when she pings someone based on what looks like shit reaosns its mostly cus its right.

so many people have made weak acusatiosn on her/me other and she called peopleout on that and loh and behold its sucm

Let me elaborate. I have caught scum before who try to mislynch me as town based on similar bad reasoning that MP used on ika.

This was a huge ping to me.

I want to know why Golden has such an issue with this and calls in tunneling when he tunneled the shit out of me most of the game.

Again, he's making me very suspicious along with MP for his lack of consistency here.

heres a small snip from sivlers iso.

[Marmot]

does someone want to give em a rundown of what happened while iw as gone? i went back to work and didnt read since

I voted for you once, before moving it to other things.

I hoped you could make a case on MP.

Please read this post ika.

the case was explained yesterday/today repeated, its follow up on sivlers death and his weak case and his over defensiveness and discredits

i dont buy either that MP did not account town!vig, i think he knowledge slipped that its scum vig

Would you be able to pull any quotes on it?

I recall what happened at the start of this day, but I'm not bothered by it. For what it's worth, sig also made a similar mistake, though in his case, he just didn't notice the civ vig in the matrix.

iso silver, if sig made that slip i would pin him next after MP.

if he read matrix he should see town vig easy.

Well, clearly sig didn't.

[ika]

Well, clearly sig didn't.

MM, your VT whats the first thing you would do in reading a matrix setup?

your a PR in ths matrix setup, what would you read first?

do you get what im saying? unless sig is a PR that doesnt allow a town vig to exist, he should of known that it could be town or scum.

if hes town PR that confiremd a scum vig existance he should come out with it. i didnt read all diffrent setups bu i knew town adn scum vig existed before even signing

[ika]

MM go iso silver/MP interactions too though silver and tell me why that isnt a TvS

[Marco]

Marco, if not zebra, who were you hoping made such a comment in the thread?

Why would I be hoping for someone specific to make that comment? I knew Zebra's stand already, which is why I said I was hoping for someone else who said it.

[Marmot]

Marco, if not zebra, who were you hoping made such a comment in the thread?

Why would I be hoping for someone specific to make that comment? I knew Zebra's stand already, which is why I said I was hoping for someone else who said it.

The way I understood it, you weren't aware zebra had said such a thing.

As for your question, I don't know why you'd be hoping for someone specific to make that comment. I want to be clear if someone else meant someone in particular, or just anyone.

[Marmot]

Well, clearly sig didn't.

MM, your VT whats the first thing you would do in reading a matrix setup?

your a PR in ths matrix setup, what would you read first?

do you get what im saying? unless sig is a PR that doesnt allow a town vig to exist, he should of known that it could be town or scum.

if hes town PR that confiremd a scum vig existance he should come out with it. i didnt read all diffrent setups bu i knew town adn scum vig existed before even signing

This logic should also apply to MovingPictures, no?

[Marco]

Marco, if not zebra, who were you hoping made such a comment in the thread?

Why would I be hoping for someone specific to make that comment? I knew Zebra's stand already, which is why I said I was hoping for someone else who said it.

The way I understood it, you weren't aware zebra had said such a thing.

As for your question, I don't know why you'd be hoping for someone specific to make that comment. I want to be clear if someone else meant someone in particular, or just anyone.

Zebra's and Golden's interaction this phase is what set off the most red flags in respect to Golden for me. So, yeah, I was hoping for validation from other people. Especially since most of my town-reads town read Golden.

[Marco]

Well, clearly sig didn't.

MM, your VT whats the first thing you would do in reading a matrix setup?

your a PR in ths matrix setup, what would you read first?

do you get what im saying? unless sig is a PR that doesnt allow a town vig to exist, he should of known that it could be town or scum.

if hes town PR that confiremd a scum vig existance he should come out with it. i didnt read all diffrent setups bu i knew town adn scum vig existed before even signing

This logic should also apply to MovingPictures, no?

If the cat is out of the bag, MP or sig should tell everyone what setup it is.

[Marmot]

MM go iso silver/MP interactions too though silver and tell me why that isnt a TvS

I would prefer you made a case and brought the important points forward instead, for a couple reasons.

1) If you think MP is really scum, you're going to need more than just my vote. If you make a case, it would be more efficient for all of us, so everyone doesn't have to go back and ISO those interactions.

2) You making a case will provide more content on you, and give us a better read on you, which is a good thing.

3) MP has generated more content since Day 1. This ought to be considered too.

[Marmot]

Well, clearly sig didn't.

MM, your VT whats the first thing you would do in reading a matrix setup?

your a PR in ths matrix setup, what would you read first?

do you get what im saying? unless sig is a PR that doesnt allow a town vig to exist, he should of known that it could be town or scum.

if hes town PR that confiremd a scum vig existance he should come out with it. i didnt read all diffrent setups bu i knew town adn scum vig existed before even signing

This logic should also apply to MovingPictures, no?

If the cat is out of the bag, MP or sig should tell everyone what setup it is.

That's a good point. I think whether they want to respond or not, this post will put pressure on both of them regardless of their alignment.

[Golden]

Full disclosure now that its out of the bag. I think I restrained myself in saying this earlier.

MM made a comment very early in the game which I felt revealed that he thought MP had implied a town power role. I also thought MP had effectively implied this, but I kept it under my hat. The choice to put it in the thread was part of me seeing both marmot and sloonei as bad in the early day. I feel like scum would be more blase pointing out that MP could be a power role than scum would be.

Since it is kind of now open discussion, though, I agree that MP or sig, if they are in possession of the correct set up, should say what it is.

[Golden]

Mind you, they might not know what it is... just that town vig isn't on it.

[Golden]

IAWY wagon started after MM tried to start a wagon on Sloonei. MP and Silver were the ones who started it IIRC.

I started it with silver. Obviously you don't have my perspective on it, but I know both silver and I are town, so that tells me nothing at all.

[Matt]

Hi!

VOTE METALMARSH89

Cuz

[Marmot]

Full disclosure now that its out of the bag. I think I restrained myself in saying this earlier.

MM made a comment very early in the game which I felt revealed that he thought MP had implied a town power role. I also thought MP had effectively implied this, but I kept it under my hat. The choice to put it in the thread was part of me seeing both marmot and sloonei as bad in the early day. I feel like scum would be more blase pointing out that MP could be a power role than scum would be.

Since it is kind of now open discussion, though, I agree that MP or sig, if they are in possession of the correct set up, should say what it is.

You must be mistaken then, because I never considered MP could have a power role until at least Day 2.

[Marco]

IAWY wagon started after MM tried to start a wagon on Sloonei. MP and Silver were the ones who started it IIRC.

I started it with silver. Obviously you don't have my perspective on it, but I know both silver and I are town, so that tells me nothing at all.

Not sure I'm getting your point.

What I'm saying is that if Frog wagon was an attempt by scum to save scummate (this actually makes you look better IMO), then IAWY and MM would both have to be scum, which isn't that likely IMO. On the other hand, if we'd never had the CFD on Frog and IAWY had been lynched and flipped town, one could make a pretty strong case about MM being scum. And vice versa if MM was lynched and flipped town.

[Marmot]

Hi!

VOTE METALMARSH89

Cuz

I rescind my warm welcome.

[Matt]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

[Marco]

I became suspicious of MP for TMI, and it wasn't until MM pointed out TMI doesn't exclusively mean scum that it even occurred to me that MP could be PR. Also why I just completely disengaged with MP on that front without saying anything.

[Marco]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

I'd say MM wants to hurt you just as much if not more than Golden.

[Matt]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

I'd say MM wants to hurt you just as much if not more than Golden.

Oh. That sucks. Hi Marco, pleased to meet you. Who's your top suss?

[Marmot]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

I'd say MM wants to hurt you just as much if not more than Golden.

Oh I see, now I remember the post.

I wasn't speaking strictly about MP, but just players in general.

@Matt, why do we fall?

[Matt]

So we can learn to pick off the Marmot?

[Golden]

IAWY wagon started after MM tried to start a wagon on Sloonei. MP and Silver were the ones who started it IIRC.

I started it with silver. Obviously you don't have my perspective on it, but I know both silver and I are town, so that tells me nothing at all.

Not sure I'm getting your point.

What I'm saying is that if Frog wagon was an attempt by scum to save scummate (this actually makes you look better IMO), then IAWY and MM would both have to be scum, which isn't that likely IMO. On the other hand, if we'd never had the CFD on Frog and IAWY had been lynched and flipped town, one could make a pretty strong case about MM being scum. And vice versa if MM was lynched and flipped town.

I guess you are saying only two wagons is better than three wagons, in terms of how much you tell us.

I see your point. I'd have to think about whether I agreed with it, but I certainly see your logic.

[Golden]

Full disclosure now that its out of the bag. I think I restrained myself in saying this earlier.

MM made a comment very early in the game which I felt revealed that he thought MP had implied a town power role. I also thought MP had effectively implied this, but I kept it under my hat. The choice to put it in the thread was part of me seeing both marmot and sloonei as bad in the early day. I feel like scum would be more blase pointing out that MP could be a power role than scum would be.

Since it is kind of now open discussion, though, I agree that MP or sig, if they are in possession of the correct set up, should say what it is.

You must be mistaken then, because I never considered MP could have a power role until at least Day 2.

Yeah, the start of today. The early day... of today. Day 2.

[Golden]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

I love you Matt.

It's sloonei I want to hurt. You shouldn't have subbed in. I'm not responsible for what I do to you now!

[Golden]

Marco, if not zebra, who were you hoping made such a comment in the thread?

Why would I be hoping for someone specific to make that comment? I knew Zebra's stand already, which is why I said I was hoping for someone else who said it.

The way I understood it, you weren't aware zebra had said such a thing.

As for your question, I don't know why you'd be hoping for someone specific to make that comment. I want to be clear if someone else meant someone in particular, or just anyone.

Zebra's and Golden's interaction this phase is what set off the most red flags in respect to Golden for me. So, yeah, I was hoping for validation from other people. Especially since most of my town-reads town read Golden.

What specific red flags does my interaction with zebra set off for you?

[Matt]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

I love you Matt.

It's sloonei I want to hurt. You shouldn't have subbed in. I'm not responsible for what I do to you now!

I read a post of yours about his tunneling on a dude named Frog but then pulled his vote off last second? Is that about the gist or am I downplaying it?

[Golden]

MM - I've read a few pages, why does Golden want to hurt me?

I love you Matt.

It's sloonei I want to hurt. You shouldn't have subbed in. I'm not responsible for what I do to you now!

I read a post of yours about his tunneling on a dude named Frog but then pulled his vote off last second? Is that about the gist or am I downplaying it?

Nah, thats more or less the gist. That plus the fact that he seemed willing to follow Frog's reads with little explanation despite the fact he was scum reading frog. His interactions around frog, in general, were bizarre.

[Marmot]

Full disclosure now that its out of the bag. I think I restrained myself in saying this earlier.

MM made a comment very early in the game which I felt revealed that he thought MP had implied a town power role. I also thought MP had effectively implied this, but I kept it under my hat. The choice to put it in the thread was part of me seeing both marmot and sloonei as bad in the early day. I feel like scum would be more blase pointing out that MP could be a power role than scum would be.

Since it is kind of now open discussion, though, I agree that MP or sig, if they are in possession of the correct set up, should say what it is.

You must be mistaken then, because I never considered MP could have a power role until at least Day 2.

Yeah, the start of today. The early day... of today. Day 2.

When you say very early in the game, relative to the current state, I think more like first half of Day 1, not first half of the current phase.

[Golden]

Full disclosure now that its out of the bag. I think I restrained myself in saying this earlier.

MM made a comment very early in the game which I felt revealed that he thought MP had implied a town power role. I also thought MP had effectively implied this, but I kept it under my hat. The choice to put it in the thread was part of me seeing both marmot and sloonei as bad in the early day. I feel like scum would be more blase pointing out that MP could be a power role than scum would be.

Since it is kind of now open discussion, though, I agree that MP or sig, if they are in possession of the correct set up, should say what it is.

You must be mistaken then, because I never considered MP could have a power role until at least Day 2.

Yeah, the start of today. The early day... of today. Day 2.

When you say very early in the game, relative to the current state, I think more like first half of Day 1, not first half of the current phase.

Yeah, I meant early in the day, like what I said in the third sentence, not the early game, like what I said in the first.