Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[nutella]

My cop power was during the day. Notice how I voted for him and then changed my mind.

But yeah golden's switch was n1

ninjaed

[Sloonei]

Speedchuck is intriguing me. I see nothing but an exuberant townie when I look at him, but then he's a leading suspect for a number of other people. I am wondering if there's something I am overlooking.

And the more I think about it, the less I like some of JOH's waffly posts on the marmot. How do others feel about their interactons?

[sprityo]

Best Road Trip Ever! Amirite?

VOTALS:

INH (1): Dyslexicon
Scotty (2): JJJ, JoH
JoH (3): nutella, Scotty, Sloonei


With 16 Alive, it takes 9 to Lynch and 5 to Soft Lynch.

Day ends in approx, 5 hours.

[Long Con]

Unvote jjj

He's clean.

Note about Jack: he's been willing to change his mind in this game which is generally something I appreciate, but it has happened in ways that strike me as unnatural. His perspectives have consistently started in a unique, personal place and then adapted to more conventional/popular reads. I'd say that about his read on me, his treatment of Sloonei and Quin today, and his suspicion of speedchuck (his enthusiasm for it appears to be declining against Sloonei's town read.

My concern is that he is finding comfort zones and that his reads aren't developing within a personal mindset -- they're shifting with public opinion.

I agree with this tbh. Jack has been flitting back and forth on my list for a while now, and I think it's time I choose a side. So what the heck

vote Jackofhearts

For what it's worth, I'm feeling better about LC lately. I realize there really wasn't much in terms of Marmot interaction to substantiate my feelings; most of it had to do with other players' mentions of him and I'm getting enough of a town feel from the man himself to dismiss them at the moment. If Jack ends up bad I might review their possible connection but

Clean as in just hopped in the bath, or clean in another context? If the latter, how did you reach that conclusion?

And actually since LC just posted, I feel worse about him.

@LC: that rainbow list is unsubstantiated, in my opinion.

Why is speedchuck at the bottom? Which particular points do you think makes him look bad?
Why am I a yellow? You've avoided talking about me this entire phase, which is ironic because even though I didn't want to make a point of hogging the spotlight, your skirting around me makes me wonder why.
You did take the time to post a when Sloonei voted me, so what's the haps?

Your opinion of "unsubstantiated" is fine. You wanna know why I put people where I did? I can talk about it. As I said IN the post with the list, I didn't have a lot of time at that point. So, no "substantiation" was happening at that time.

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

I haven't been avoiding talking about you, and I haven't been skirting around you. That kind of loaded talk makes me feel worse about you, actually. Either you have an overinflated sense of how important you're supposed to be to me, or you just want to use phrases that make me look dodgy.

The reason I posted was because of his funny empty Spoiler tag.

Gonna post this before I read the pages following that post. I have to do dinner. Then I'll catch up.

[speedchuck]

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

That... is a surprising reason. To me at least.

I'm more busy than normal this day, does anyone else have questions they'd like to give me?

Also Vote JoH

Is there any reason that we are not talking about INH after yesterday? Because I find it somewhat strange.
Not much time for me to dig into that, though. Quite busy. Will be around for deadline.

[Long Con]

Scotty: ~2-2.5. I think you're civ.

And jjj is clean bc I copped him. It was a one shot ability and I'm already kicking myself for wasting it. Keep those items coming so I can continue to be useful.

That's not wasted to me, nutella. I was reading him bad. I think he was a great choice.

Scotty has felt authentic today. I'm not prepared to call him a town read, but I think I'm starting to feel better about voting Jackofhearts than Scotty today. That is partly a deferral to others. I trust nutella, and she suspects him.

I was thinking the same thing - Scotty looks fantastic today.

I didn't forget Soneji was playing, but I also have nothing to say about him.

He's like a pomegranate drying out in the sun on a hot day. Could still be good when I rediscover it.

Or it could be...


OMGranate.

..and this, for instance, is even better than Civ behaviour. Pure hilarity! On the Soneji subject, though, I have trouble remembering much about his opinions. It doesn't help that I mix his name up with Sloonei's half the time.

I have no idea where these similes come from. Have you been leaving pomegranates in the sun? It's winter and you're in Canada.

Nah it's basically summer here. Or so I'm told. It was 0 degrees here last week-

I'm looking at these fucking ten foot snow drifts and the locals are like, "yea, I've lived here for 30 years and don't even know what the ground looks like anymore."

Why live here? I don't get it.

Hmmm That is... not accurate. It's winter in Canada, and it's cold. Summer in Canada is a warm, beautiful 25 - 30 degrees kind of affair. Unless you're waaaayyyyy north to, like Arctic territory. But it's still winter there as well. I think someone is pulling your leg.

[Long Con]

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

That... is a surprising reason. To me at least.

I'm more busy than normal this day, does anyone else have questions they'd like to give me?

Also Vote JoH

Is there any reason that we are not talking about INH after yesterday? Because I find it somewhat strange.
Not much time for me to dig into that, though. Quite busy. Will be around for deadline.

Why so surprised? You didn't express any surprise last time I said it.

[Dyslexicon]

Catch up Part 1

I note that my confidence increases when I don't actually play very much, and just ram myself into the dialogue sporadically. Maybe I'll be lazy more often.

I just played a game as 3p survivor (which is a role I don't particularly enjoy), and I was totally skimming the game and skipping whole days, but my reads were super on point. So definitely considering playing like that normally lol.

Hey guys. I'll probably be behind for a while (maybe this whole phase) but after that I should be back up with the play. In the meantime, anything that people can offer about insight into the end of phase would be helpful and appreciated. From my brief glance it's difficult to follow, but it looked as though it was a close thing between marmot, dizzy, and sloonei?

Also, rip silver lantern. I enjoyed playing with you and I hope you stick around for some more.

This post pings me just a tiny bit. Why not look into it yourself? You seem like a person who would rather trust yourself than others in a game (?). I see that you're busy though, so could just be that.

I'm surprised to hear inh took this as a reason for suspicion of Dizzy. If taken at face value, I should be the one who gets suspected. But it shouldn't be taken at face value - people should make their own assessment of my content instead of relying on a second hand perspective.

Dizzy was suggesting I knew he's town when doing my rainbow list and, I'm not sure at what specific times other than that. To be fair, I understood how Dizzy got to that view. I was strongly critical of most if not all of the people who voted for him on day one (there may have been some exceptions, but I can't remember now). But if you look at what I actually said, it will mesh with what my mindset actually was, which is that I had a problem with people who continued to suspect Dizzy for his "slip" because for me there was incontrovertible proof that the slip was not a real slip. The two are completely different mindsets but in the end can appear quite similar in effect.

Put another way, dizzy looked like an easy mark for ongoing suspicion and I wasn't afraid to say it. And I don't think Dizzy is used to the extent that I'm willing to defend town reads yet.

It's not about what I'm used to. I've played many many mafia games with many many players and I'm used to a lot of stuff. What I felt was that you were treating me as a stronger town read than what you were saying explicitly.

[Dyslexicon]

Catch up Part 2

One thing I've picked up on in this ambitious exercise: Dyslexicon is the towniest player in the game based solely on Metalmarsh's ISO.

You forgot to mention my good looks and undeniable charm.

What reason is there to read speedchuck as bad? He's in my top tier of town reads at this point.

I feel it in my bones.

In defense of speedchuck, he is in a game with a bunh of strangers. He can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he's ever played with any of us before. With that in mind, I have no problem with his uncertainty ("flip-flop") yesterday or at any other point in this game. He mentioned this directly in his Scotty suspicion. He provided his own investigative work and came out with a legitimate case, but backed off it when I said things about Scotty's meta. So then when I later came back with my own suspicion of Scotty, it restored his confidence in his own read.

We can apply the same line of thinking to his read on metalmarsh, or anyone else in the game.

Um, where was this attitude in your treatment of INH's case on me? Didn't you say that INH saying I flip-flopped on JJJ was a compelling point? I'm also in a game with a bunch of strangers. Explain.

Actually, screw it.

I have an exercise for everyone. I actually want as many people's opinions as possible.

On a scale of 1-6, 1 being civ and 6 being pondscum, where would you rank me? In one sentence, what brings you to that read in particular?

2,3. I also think I know what role you're hinting at. Meow. You may be target again tonight, who knows.

I appreciate the honesty over the EoD.

And then you have to go post something like this in response to Speed. Why call it "honesty" if you suspect him?

[Quin]

I could vote JOH. I didn't like my interactions with him one bit yesterday. 3J pointed out some stuff against him as well which I agreed with.

Giving 3J his civ read. What a beggar

[Dyslexicon]

Other points:

- What's with Jack's concerned about being teamed with Sloonei or Quin? He mentions it so many times it's bizarre. What is the point of this, Jack?

- INH asking JJJ what his thoughts on INH's case on me is ??? Why is this relevant at all?
Also, INH, I think you mentioned you still were suspicious of me? Elaborate.

INH, Straw and Soneji are all largely inactive. Color me unamused and uninspired. They are all suspects to some degree. I do not give INH a pass for being too connected to Marmot. I'd expect him to post substance after getting Marmot as scum confirmed. That should spark movement forward, not go into hiding.

I recall Marmot's vote on Straw and how Straw said to me that I shouldn't put weight on that because they have history together. It read odd to me at the time, and even though it may be weak, I feel it's a point to concider for them possibly being teamed. Like, explaining how their interactions weren't weird.

I know I had a ton of other thoughts, but at some point I stopped taking notes. >_>

[Dyslexicon]

Lynch Speedchuck

I want to believe. <3

[Dyslexicon]

Lynch Speedchuck

Because colors.

[Quin]

Vote JOH

Because shapes.

[Golden]

This post pings me just a tiny bit. Why not look into it yourself? You seem like a person who would rather trust yourself than others in a game (?). I see that you're busy though, so could just be that.

I am 20 pages behind and haven't had a chance to do more than pop in, look at a few short posts, and make responses for the last 5 days and counting.

What I felt was that you were treating me as a stronger town read than what you were saying explicitly.

You didn't say that at the time. What do you feel was my explicit read of you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

unvote

I think I'll be back in time to vote.

[juliets]

Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Quin and Sloonei

Both of your have referenced JJJ's argument against me as partial reasons you are voting for me.

Could you please recap what part of those arguments were convincing? I remember them being bullshit (as in JJJ admitted he was misremembering a key aspect of his argument) combined with tinfoil.

What part convinced you I was bad?

[Jackofhearts2005]

@JJJ

I can go over it again but I'd rather not. Doesn't seem worth discussing.

It's damn near impossible for Marmot to have been behind Golden being misdirected from you to Fred.

I don't think you needed to claim but since you're now (assuming you are telling the truth) vanilla, I don't see much harm in it. I already assumed you were some sort of tracker but you could have maintained the illusion of still having a power, which is probably how I would have played it. You'd be surprised how many players will admit to targeting deaders if they think they were tracked.

I could Vote Scotty

Having to do a full reset on Quin and JJJ. Too many assumptions were made today. They'd be good ISO targets.

Still not a fan of Speed's. Don't like Marmot defending Eloh from me, earlier. Not a bunch of reason to weigh in on her if she's town. Might be reaching.

Would love to hear from INH on someone besides Sloonei.

Ah ok. So you're not a fan of speed's, who is my top scum read right now, and you're willing to jump on Sloonei's bag and join the Scotty lynch circus?

I see you.

I think I've been tunneling on Speed.

I've been basically alone in suspecting him until you come along. Evidence suggests I'm just wrong and your case on him doesn't really change that or make me think you are town.

Was this supposed to be a "gotcha" post?

The best thing Speed has going for him is the MM flip. Would have been sooooo easy to let the day stall. No reason for scum to last second lynch a teammate.

[Dyslexicon]

- I remember thinking that if Marmot is scum I would be highly suspicious of Speed the minute he changed his vote from Marmot to Scotty. He had already made it impossible for him to support my lynch, but at the time his vote switch made it more probable for me to get lynched, with the players voting elsewhere being split on Marmot and Scotty. His literally last minute vote does not clear him afaic. He said nobody would give him flack for not making a lynch happen, and I can promise him that I would have plenty to say about that. (I was actually awake at the time, just watching, as I couldn't sleep. That was exciting lol.)

- A point in favor of Sloonei is that he was the one pointing out Marmot's possible slip about Wilgy. I also thought this was a legit possible slip, but somehow a weird reason to suspect as well. I remember Sloonei saying something similar EoD, but it factoring into his voting.

- I don't even remember LC's reason for voting Marmot. I remember seeing the vote count at EoD at one point and being like "huh, when did that happen?". LC has been all over the place to me. Still suspect.

- I definitely could see Jack as scum. I don't know. He's my most unsure read, I think. But there are certain things that definitely give me pause, so I won't actively oppose his lynch. Just prefer Speed.

[Golden]

Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

Just saying - what you said last time was it was about analysis of votes and wagons. Now I've done my best to address that, and you are shifting the goalposts.

I don't like this. Especially the way you just replied to my post in a way that felt as though you were accusing me of misrepresenting your suspicion.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

Hey LC.

Who am I scumbuddies with? Speed or Scotty?

[nutella]

Juliets, we've hit the soft lynch number meaning that he will be lynched(if that many votes stay til the deadline. Hammer, which is currently 9 votes, means the day ends early and he gets lynched immediately. So that's what we don't really want to hit so we have full time unless we're really super confident.

[Golden]

Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

If someone gets half of all possible votes (rounded up) then the day immediately ends and we have to stop talking.

[Long Con]

The "no reason" is the reason.

[Quin]

Here, Jack. I don't know where the remembrance on 3J's part was, can you point it out? I made a mistake of my own in my second comment. You had sig as a null read, not a town read.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Stuff about the sig votes:

Golden (1st of 10) - First to voice suspicion of sig to my memory and first to vote accordingly. I can't blame him for maintaining his perspective late in the phase when sig's final contribution was essentially to plop a pointless vote on his face. I have no immediate beefs with this vote.

speedchuck (3rd of 10) - I kind of like this post. His comments about sig are more external than personal, but I think they're still meaningful. The approach is rather Slooneian, I think, in a good way. "Are there any good reasons not to lynch sig?" is the premier example of that.

JOH (4th of 10) - In his initial rainbow he had sig in the central yellow sector. Same story in the second rainbow. He questioned Golden for his sig vote when he initially placed it. I don't know why this post exists. He was critical of sig for his late arrival to the map claiming party. He does say there that this "factored in to his sig read already", which wouldn't seem to reflect in the rainbow positions or his brief dialogue with Golden. Compares him to Wilgy when he votes. The transition from "rainbow yellow" to "lynchable" isn't quite clear. The post in which he discusses map claims is the closest representation, which I would still assert results in an unclear transition. So that isn't ideal, and I could see potential for opportunism here.

Strawhenge (6th of 10) - Strawhenge voiced some confusion and then some suspicion about sig's behavior in the map claiming scenario. He ended up voting sig to help us reach the required 6 votes for soft lynch, but also voiced a preference for a Long Con vote given his previous ISO effort. I don't think this material looks especially good or bad, and I'll read Strawhenge at face value instead (I think he looks okay).

nutella (7th of 10) - She voiced some concern with sig and soon thereafter listed him very low on her rainbow. Starting here and in her next few posts thereafter she supported my suspicion of sig and expanded on her feelings. I don't think any of this looks alarming, and her content in general looks very town to me.

Dyslexicon (8th of 10) - Gave sig a little credit for a different tone to Dizzy's last experience on the site. He gave me a little crap for my reversal on sig. I think it looks authentic. Not a fan of a sig lynch, but prefers it over Wilgy. The perspective seems to worsen here. They voiced some interest, sort of in a CFD against Elohcin. Sub-null in a late rainbow. Agreed with my beef. I think the progression here looks fine, and I appreciate that Dizzy didn't care about holding consistent to their starting read. It should be noted that there may have been some amount of self-preservation here too; I don't recall the exact tally dynamic at this point.

DrWilgy (9th of 10) - I don't know if he's actually dead, so I'll check him too. His vote was participatory but not seemingly invested. "sig gon be pissed lol". This doesn't inspire confidence.

Quin (10th of 10) - He started by prodding his way into the discussion of sig, and soon after admitted he hadn't read the case. "sig is starting to feel like a runaway wagon". He participated in it 10 minutes later. This stuff makes me shrug, which is less good than some others.

~~~

Beyond the specific appearances of each vote relative to prior sig-related content, the positions of the votes within the wagons must also be considered. I tend to hate gigantic wagons like this because they're such a cozy place for scum to nestle their little heads, but I grant that it's a necessary component of a hammer game. I would call the votes that came after #6 essentially meaningless, because the soft lynch was secured. They're comparable in value to votes that weren't placed.

The sig votes that do the least for me are JOH, Wilgy, and Quin. The former two are more of an active problem though, while Quin is, like I said, a shrug.

I feel like this post displays a fair and understandable level of suspicion against me so I will address it in that light.

"This post" exists because I was trying to determine how serious Golden was. At the time, Sig had 1 or 2 short posts and little suspicion had been leveled against him. The deadline was approaching on Valentines Day. I took the Golden vote to be a "hey Sig" which I found potentially inappropriate because Sig might not answer. So then what? Unanswered iirc.

The map Spartacus thing was factored into my Sig read, making him slightly worse than a non poster. That's where I had him and why.

Sig transitioned from low yellow to orange with his non responses and Golden vote. He became like Wigly. Few posts. No posts that I liked. As stated in my rainbow, no red reads, making orange players acceotable. HCRealms tends to have votes time out for no lynch, which I loathe. So my Sig vote was opportunistic, but not in the way you mean. When my higher suspects (LC, Nacho) seemed unavailable, I pushed in the next best thing. This play style is evident in my "this post" as well as my early attempt to lynch Quin in Unfortunate Events.

This is the most legible assembling of Nacho's reads available, that I can find. He worked off of my POE and eliminated further:

Spoiler: show

Bad Guys R In Here:

Quin
Long Con
JOH
DrWilgy
Sorsha
speedchuck
Scotty
Elohcin
DFaraday
Dyslexicon
Nachomamma

Yeah it's a huge list. Don't care.

Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!
Why is Marmot a townread?

Quin
Long Con
JOH
DrWilgy
Sorsha/Sloonei
Scotty
Elohcin
DFaraday
Dyslexicon

This is the list reduced to his recommendations. It is important to state that I don't think Nacho's reads were God's Gift to Our Mafia Game and all perfect, but given my belief that there might be discernible kill motive, it's a decent way to explore that.

I've taken my prior assertions and removed some more names. Quin's color is "fading" given the "maaaaybe", and I remove him yet per my spilled brain matter. Scotty and Long Con too. I dropped Elohcin and DFaraday because if they're bad I Then given my sig vote checks, I highlight the overlapping potential problem area (orange). I'd call those two prominent suspects right now when I coalesce all of my brain goop into one bubbling soup.

I feel like this post is not a fair one and it further degrades my early confidence in you.

The theory you are presenting is "Nacho was confident in his reads so maybe he correctly read a scummer and the mafia silenced him." This is followed up with not a list of Nacho's scum reads, but a list of YOUR scum reads, which includes Nacho, which Nacho then takes himself and a few others off of and jokingly declares the game closer to being solved.

So if your theory is that I killed Nacho because he was "confident" that I was scum based on one joke response to your self described "huge" list of suspects for which you then crossed out half of...why didn't I just kill you instead? Indeed, you caught me fair and square in Christmas Mafia when you replaced in for Sock. Additionally, your town credit was waining at the end of the day, making you an unlikely doctor target. So again, if I'm killing players who I'm worried are on to me and my scumbuddies, why would I kill Nacho instead of you?

Let's dig a little deeper. At the time of your post declaring me potential scum, I had no posts. Do you think your read on me prior to me making any posts holds weight? Do you think Nacho's jokey agreement with it holds weight?

You crossed off several players from your early scum list as not likely to kill Nacho (lol) on night 1 for meta reasons. I'm doing so, you've also POEd them from the list of Nacho's (your) suspects. Yet in truth, it is an 11 suspect list in a 21 player game. Do you think that anyone would be rightly worried about being on an 11 player suspect list? Or an 8 player one?

Let's look at Nacho's actual reads and interactions with me, which you've presumably read.

Spoiler: show

Other people that could die are Soneji for his perspective on Silver Lantern who is painfully and unmistakably obvtown, and Scotty for lame presence this game when he had awesome presence as town last game and underwhelming presence as scum.

I think Strawhenge joins Silver Lantern and Fred for my "bet the farm" townreads, feel pretty good about the big three in Quin/JJJ/Golden so far although incidentally those three is where I'm the most cautious in my townreading.

Also townreading nutella and INH and probably other people to a degree less than the SUPATOWN group but more than the big three. Am sure that I'm missing things but too tired to figure out what, fading out now.

Actual scum reads from Nacho? Scotty and Sonjei. He also expresses confidence in the Dizzy train. Later, he walks back from Dizzy and Sonjei.

I give Nacho grief for the above post and we have a bit of back and forth during which Nacho expresses no real suspicion of either me or Wigly and admits that his overconfidence is in part an act/tactic and not necessarily a representation of his read confidence.

Spoiler: show

*snip*

I don't like Nachos's "okay, I've found scum" and "these folks are obviously town" posts. Like, bro, you had me fooled last game but I don't get the impression you're THAT good, know what I mean? Has Sorsha/Sonjei's problem of me only ever playing with scum Nacho (and 10 years ago over the top bulldog townie Nacho) so I can't answer "but would he do this anyway as a townie?"

*snip*

ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.

Being forward and aggressive isn't scummy.

Acting like your job is done, patting yourself on the back and then coasting is. Not sure if you've actually coasted but hey, appropriate response to appropriate level of scumminess in my eyes. Minor. But more than most players at this point.

You never declared your work done when you got me lynched way back when.

Oh, that makes more sense.

Finding a silver platter slip is different from pushing through a strong scumread, the "my work is done, I'm voting scum" wasn't implying that I caught Dizzy or anything to that effect; I was merely noting that it was less urgent for me to catch up that second and was considering sleeping, but ended up catching up anyways.

Based on all of the above, JJJ, I consider you placing me as your "top suspect" and your reasons for doing so to be disingenuous.

Had a look at the highlighted for more context. First though is that this douchebag's already got 6 pages of content. Slow it down, you're busy, remember? I'm not a fan of this. It's a POE list, and the entire premise is that you go on that list until you've shown that you deserve not to be. Not having posted is a guarantee that you'd be on that list, so this is a silly argument to make.

I agree with the observation that 3J made about Jack's read on sig 'factoring into his existing read' not being reflected in his posts. I see that sig was leaning town on his rainbow list before this. My impression of Jack after being his teammate in ASOUE is that he doesn't keep he thoughts to himself very much. I'm more likely to call this a contradiction than a case of Jack just not having said everything that was on his mind.

[Quin]

ok, format.

[Long Con]

I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

Hey LC.

Who am I scumbuddies with? Speed or Scotty?

Speed, I suspect him much more.

[Dyslexicon]

This post pings me just a tiny bit. Why not look into it yourself? You seem like a person who would rather trust yourself than others in a game (?). I see that you're busy though, so could just be that.

I am 20 pages behind and haven't had a chance to do more than pop in, look at a few short posts, and make responses for the last 5 days and counting.

What I felt was that you were treating me as a stronger town read than what you were saying explicitly.

You didn't say that at the time. What do you feel was my explicit read of you?

Your explicit read on me was "slight town" or "lean town" or something to that effect. Tbh, I'm less suspicious of you now.

Which reminds me.

---

I know Fred already made the distinction, but there is a difference between Bus Driver (switcher) and Redirector.
I find it very curious that Golden got the result and told he was watching Fred. In my experience a Bus Driver will switch players, but you won't be told that the players have been switched, that would defeat the purpose of the role! It's weird to me that Golden was told that he had targeted Fred instead, as I would not expect that to be information the host gives out if the targets were switched. What would happen on my site would just be that Golden would be told "you watched such and such" or even "JJJ was targeted by such and such", while in reality Golden watched Fred without knowing.

I don't know how Eloh factors in to this.

[nutella]

Jack, how about you respond to those posts sloonei made about you earlier today? I think that his collection of arguments is a stronger overall case than jjj's old one.

[Dyslexicon]

Does anyone know the vote count?

[Jackofhearts2005]

JaggedJimmyJay
Dyslexicon
Sloonei
Golden
juliets
Elohcin
Scotty
speedchuck
Strawhenge
Long Con
insertnamehere
Soneji
Fredwood
Quin
Jackofhearts2005

Same question, here.

You think I'm scum? Who are my buddies?

(Spoiler alert. I am town.)

[speedchuck]

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

That... is a surprising reason. To me at least.

I'm more busy than normal this day, does anyone else have questions they'd like to give me?

Also Vote JoH

Is there any reason that we are not talking about INH after yesterday? Because I find it somewhat strange.
Not much time for me to dig into that, though. Quite busy. Will be around for deadline.

Why so surprised? You didn't express any surprise last time I said it.

I get that I was pretty waffly during that lynch, and that calling attention to it doesn't help, but...

It's weird, given all of the information I've put out about my thought process, that people think I'm scum for it. To me. But maybe that's just me reading motives where everyone else looks for slightly uncertain behavior.
Linkis are already driving me crazy.

[Dyslexicon]

Same question, here.

You think I'm scum? Who are my buddies?

(Spoiler alert. I am town.)

If you're town, then why are you asking this?
It serves no purpose as town.

Also, answer me, why were you so occupied with if you were linked to Quin or Sloonei?

[speedchuck]

Same question, here.

You think I'm scum? Who are my buddies?

(Spoiler alert. I am town.)

If you're town, then why are you asking this?
It serves no purpose as town.

Also, answer me, why were you so occupied with if you were linked to Quin or Sloonei?

It does serve a purpose. I'm seeing jack do things I'm familiar with, and it pleases me.

[Quin]

yall need to vote in the poll btw

[Quin]

Quin - probably town, but omg.

This is what happens when you let Quin be JaggedJimmyJay.

[Long Con]

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

That... is a surprising reason. To me at least.

I'm more busy than normal this day, does anyone else have questions they'd like to give me?

Also Vote JoH

Is there any reason that we are not talking about INH after yesterday? Because I find it somewhat strange.
Not much time for me to dig into that, though. Quite busy. Will be around for deadline.

Why so surprised? You didn't express any surprise last time I said it.

I get that I was pretty waffly during that lynch, and that calling attention to it doesn't help, but...

It's weird, given all of the information I've put out about my thought process, that people think I'm scum for it. To me. But maybe that's just me reading motives where everyone else looks for slightly uncertain behavior.
Linkis are already driving me crazy.

If I believe everyone who can spin a Civ looking explanation for their actions, I'd never vote anyone. I don't have a complicated method to find Mafia, I just am suspicious of people I find suspicious. New fancy methods, just reading, and trying to think of what a baddie would do, and how they might try to trick the Civs.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

Hey LC.

Who am I scumbuddies with? Speed or Scotty?

Speed, I suspect him much more.

You serious? The guy I've been after all game that is now voting for me?

[Dyslexicon]

Same question, here.

You think I'm scum? Who are my buddies?

(Spoiler alert. I am town.)

If you're town, then why are you asking this?
It serves no purpose as town.

Also, answer me, why were you so occupied with if you were linked to Quin or Sloonei?

It does serve a purpose. I'm seeing jack do things I'm familiar with, and it pleases me.

Nuuuur. Let him answer it. >:(

Spoiler: show

I know.

[Dyslexicon]

@Speed, who are you voting btw, I've lost track.

[speedchuck]

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

That... is a surprising reason. To me at least.

I'm more busy than normal this day, does anyone else have questions they'd like to give me?

Also Vote JoH

Is there any reason that we are not talking about INH after yesterday? Because I find it somewhat strange.
Not much time for me to dig into that, though. Quite busy. Will be around for deadline.

Why so surprised? You didn't express any surprise last time I said it.

I get that I was pretty waffly during that lynch, and that calling attention to it doesn't help, but...

It's weird, given all of the information I've put out about my thought process, that people think I'm scum for it. To me. But maybe that's just me reading motives where everyone else looks for slightly uncertain behavior.
Linkis are already driving me crazy.

If I believe everyone who can spin a Civ looking explanation for their actions, I'd never vote anyone. I don't have a complicated method to find Mafia, I just am suspicious of people I find suspicious. New fancy methods, just reading, and trying to think of what a baddie would do, and how they might try to trick the Civs.

That's motive.

YOU need to think about my actions, and whether it is advantageous for me to do the things I do as town or scum. If you think I'm bad, explain my thought process. I think I know what you think I did, but I want t hear you say it.

@Dizzy
Believe it's JoH. Gonna look at INH if I get a second tonight. I really shouldn't be on this forum right now, I have deadlines. :s

[Dyslexicon]

If I believe everyone who can spin a Civ looking explanation for their actions, I'd never vote anyone.

And this is why playing scum on that mafiascum-site is so easy. You just do expected town-things and people cross you off their lists. And when I was town I'd do something unexpected and all hell would break lose cause "it's not how town should play".

I have a totally different approach btw.

[Dyslexicon]

@Dizzy
Believe it's JoH. Gonna look at INH if I get a second tonight. I really shouldn't be on this forum right now, I have deadlines. :s

Then why did you say Jack had a town reason for asking who his teammates was? Or did you misread my post? I explicitly asked him what his town reasons was for asking that - and you said you see what he's doing (as town???).

[Jackofhearts2005]

Same question, here.

You think I'm scum? Who are my buddies?

(Spoiler alert. I am town.)

If you're town, then why are you asking this?
It serves no purpose as town.

Also, answer me, why were you so occupied with if you were linked to Quin or Sloonei?

Cause I've been strictly against several of the players I'm supposedly teammates with, according to my accusers. Makes no sense. They should reconsider.

I wasn't occupied with the link. I dismissed it. JJJ questioned my dismissal. I explained my dismissal. The end. People stop asking me about it and I'll stop talking about it.

[Long Con]

I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

Hey LC.

Who am I scumbuddies with? Speed or Scotty?

Speed, I suspect him much more.

You serious? The guy I've been after all game that is now voting for me?

Oh I get it, it's a trap...

[Dyslexicon]

Cause I've been strictly against several of the players I'm supposedly teammates with, according to my accusers. Makes no sense. They should reconsider.

I wasn't occupied with the link. I dismissed it. JJJ questioned my dismissal. I explained my dismissal. The end. People stop asking me about it and I'll stop talking about it.

Which of the players on your wagon is suspicious to you and why?

In my perception you were occupied with it. And if you're scum, I have a possible explanation for that.

[Long Con]

Speedchuck is at the bottom because he looks the worst in the Metalmarsh lynch to me, and his posts since then haven't done anything to make him look better in my eyes.

That... is a surprising reason. To me at least.

I'm more busy than normal this day, does anyone else have questions they'd like to give me?

Also Vote JoH

Is there any reason that we are not talking about INH after yesterday? Because I find it somewhat strange.
Not much time for me to dig into that, though. Quite busy. Will be around for deadline.

Why so surprised? You didn't express any surprise last time I said it.

I get that I was pretty waffly during that lynch, and that calling attention to it doesn't help, but...

It's weird, given all of the information I've put out about my thought process, that people think I'm scum for it. To me. But maybe that's just me reading motives where everyone else looks for slightly uncertain behavior.
Linkis are already driving me crazy.

If I believe everyone who can spin a Civ looking explanation for their actions, I'd never vote anyone. I don't have a complicated method to find Mafia, I just am suspicious of people I find suspicious. New fancy methods, just reading, and trying to think of what a baddie would do, and how they might try to trick the Civs.

That's motive.

YOU need to think about my actions, and whether it is advantageous for me to do the things I do as town or scum. If you think I'm bad, explain my thought process. I think I know what you think I did, but I want t hear you say it.

@Dizzy
Believe it's JoH. Gonna look at INH if I get a second tonight. I really shouldn't be on this forum right now, I have deadlines. :s

You mean lynching Marmot for credit, right?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Cause I've been strictly against several of the players I'm supposedly teammates with, according to my accusers. Makes no sense. They should reconsider.

I wasn't occupied with the link. I dismissed it. JJJ questioned my dismissal. I explained my dismissal. The end. People stop asking me about it and I'll stop talking about it.

Which of the players on your wagon is suspicious to you and why?

In my perception you were occupied with it. And if you're scum, I have a possible explanation for that.

Not Nut, JJJ, Speed or Sloon. The MM lynch and daycopping damn near confirm those four in my mind.

Maybe Scotty. Maybe LC. Maybe Quin. Need more data (phone posting)

Can you quote the posts I was occupied with it? I think you'll find I made one or two very short posts about it plus answering questions/comments from other players.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Not trying to avoid hard questions.

It's just easier to handle easy ones and correctly formatted ones (Quin) on my phone.