Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin: what inspired your change of heart in your nutella read? I can't imagine you doctored someone you found suspicious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jack: why did you decide Quin's claim was fake before it existed?

Cause scummers can't truthclaim town roles.

That doesn't answer my question. I don't know Quin is scum, and given your targets neither do you. Please remove the glasses and try again.

[Quin]

Quin: what inspired your change of heart in your nutella read? I can't imagine you doctored someone you found suspicious.

She was right about marmot. It confirmed (somehow) my theory that she was a cop.

[Quin]

The thread title right now actually implies I couldn't save nutella. Maybe.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack: why did you decide Quin's claim was fake before it existed?

Cause scummers can't truthclaim town roles.

That doesn't answer my question. I don't know Quin is scum, and given your targets neither do you. Please remove the glasses and try again.

*shrug*

If I have glasses on now, I had them on when I made the post.

TBH, it was also a way to shut down fishing accusations and prevent accidentally getting a townie to claim by looking at my argument and going "Fine. Since it's so important to you, I'm X."

There isn't a role Quin could have claimed that could have a significant positive impact on my read on him. If he's scum, it's lies. If he's town, it probably helps the mafia more than the town. So I choose to be overly harsh about not believing his claim to dissuade him from claiming.

[Quin]

Okay.

The problem I've created for myself is that I came into this Day with information I wanted to share and did it in probably the worst way possible. I'm gonna lay it all out on the table instead because why not

nutella should not be dead. I protected her. I protect on odd nights. From that I've concluded either I was role blocked, or the killer has a strongman role.

Please explain why you came into the day wanting to share this information.

Because I wanted to.

Bad answer. Scummy answer.

How do you justify accusing a player of fishing for your role when you decided to claim doctor completely unprovoked?

I never accused you of fishing for my role. Elaborating to your 'Do go on' post would have literally involved claiming my role.

Spoiler: show

I'd rather not.

Then I don't see much reason to remove my vote.

I'm not asking for a power claim. I just don't think you should be able to shut down a fair question with vague references to night results. Especially when whatever caused you to suspect Nut must have been wrong/made up. Like if I made vague references to night abilities while siding with scummers against townies, that shit wouldn't keep me off the chopping block. Not sure why you think you deserve a pass.

The good behavior you had on day 1 (the slip catch and clearheaded evaluation of it) was basically the opposite of your behavior on day 2, where you followed a train of logic that the lynch leader said was weak bullshit. The only other player following it was scum so he didn't believe it either. But you did. Or did you?

You spent all of day three trying to lynch a townie. Your entire rainbow is bass ackwards. You refused to speculate on my potential partners while insisting I have them. You referenced tinfoil as part of your reason for voting me. You thought Sloonei and Nut were bad after they lynched Marmot (who absolutely wouldn't have been lynched if either of them had focused elsewhere).

In my eyes, you haven't done anything to help the town all game. Why should anyone cut you any slack?

1. Yes you are.
2. You just said 20 minutes ago that I either didn't read all her posts, forgot, or am lying. Now you're pushing one. Why?
3. Sided with an indy.
4. I still adamantly believe the case wasn't bullshit. The flow of Day 2 is a perfect reflection of how not-bullshit it was.
5. How do you know this?
6. Completely contradictory to what you said yesterday. You acknowledged that I do not follow that thought process.
7. I asked you twice to point this out. You have answered zero times.
8. I only argued Sloonei was bad.

This is riddled with falsehoods and inconsistencies.

*LYNCH JACK*

^You imply I am scum and state that I AM trying to get a claim out of you despite saying I'm not. That's called fishing. That's you accusing me of fishing.


In regards to my "do tell" post, what part of this exchange is explained by you claiming doctor?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 90#p338990
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 94#p338994
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 08#p339008
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 6&sr=posts
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 22#p339022

Thought you were refusing to explain why you were suspicious of Nutella, softclaiming some type of info gatherer. Your doctor claim was out of left field and had literally nothing to do with what we were discussing.

I said that you're scum. That has nothing to do with this. I am saying 'Yes you are' because what you are asking me to do literally involves power claiming.

You didn't make me claim. I decided to do it on my own power because I fucked up and can't argue my way out of a wet paper bag.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Night night.

[Quin]

I don't know why I'm arguing why I wasn't accusing you of fishing for my role when by all rights I should be.

[juliets]

I am dead tired by 11:00 at night and just stayed up long enough last night to see who died so I missed the conversation. I'm not looking forward to an 11:00 EOD as I just am not good at evaluating fast moving evidence at that time of night. I also don't know how any of the European people are going to make it that late. I have an idea I'm going to propose to sprityo to try and get him to move the time back to 10:00 pm but we'll see.

I'll also say that the reason I didn't join her on the marmot wagon at the time was because I didn't entirely trust her at the time. I did consider it though.

Quin, I can't tell if you did this last night but could you possibly remember why you didn't trust her by reviewing her posts that day?

Soneji, I'd love to hear about your worthless Day 3 vote.

I didn't understand this vote either. It seemed like you didn't want to take a stand in the main debate. Also Soneji, will you give some reads in this game or is this something you are always fundamentally opposed to?

How are we all feeling about JOH today? Did he convince everyone not to lynch him, or did INH make himself too lynchable to miss?

After reading back over Jack's posts EOD I do want to consider Jack's claim that he wouldn't have killed Silver Lantern. Trouble is I don't know Jack at all so the best way I know to assess this claim is ask Fred who seems to know Jack well what he things about it. Does this ring as true Fred? I apologize if I missed your assessment in my reading, feel free to link me back if I did.

I have apparently voted to travel West. I do not recall doing this.

I forgot to vote - I apologize. I don't really understand the criteria we are using to make a decision so would appreciate someone explaining that. I don't want to go backward again like we apparently did last night though so I hope someone will recap where we've been (I think someone last night asked for that).

Sonjei, Eloh, Straw and to an extent, LC, Juliets, Fred and Scotty don't have nearly as much content as the top posters. What do you make of them?

I will not be a top poster in this game because I missed time and am spending a lot of time trying to get my feet under me, but that is not alignment indicative.

nutella should not be dead. I protected her. I protect on odd nights. From that I've concluded either I was role blocked, or the killer has a strongman role.

Quin I don't get this at all. Why would you role claim this role? You said later in the dialogue you would rather die at night than get lynched but why? That doesn't make sense to me when the roles are revealed no matter how you die. Let if be said though that I didn't understand why Silver Lantern role claimed either so it's entirely possible I just don't understand the dynamic of role claiming important roles in a closed set up. I'm not saying I'm going to vote for you because of it, I'm not inclined to vote for you right now. I need to understand though why you did it.

[Scotty]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

[Scotty]

Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

unvote

[Jackofhearts2005]

Okay.

The problem I've created for myself is that I came into this Day with information I wanted to share and did it in probably the worst way possible. I'm gonna lay it all out on the table instead because why not

nutella should not be dead. I protected her. I protect on odd nights. From that I've concluded either I was role blocked, or the killer has a strongman role.

Please explain why you came into the day wanting to share this information.

Because I wanted to.

Bad answer. Scummy answer.

How do you justify accusing a player of fishing for your role when you decided to claim doctor completely unprovoked?

I never accused you of fishing for my role. Elaborating to your 'Do go on' post would have literally involved claiming my role.

Spoiler: show

I'd rather not.

Then I don't see much reason to remove my vote.

I'm not asking for a power claim. I just don't think you should be able to shut down a fair question with vague references to night results. Especially when whatever caused you to suspect Nut must have been wrong/made up. Like if I made vague references to night abilities while siding with scummers against townies, that shit wouldn't keep me off the chopping block. Not sure why you think you deserve a pass.

The good behavior you had on day 1 (the slip catch and clearheaded evaluation of it) was basically the opposite of your behavior on day 2, where you followed a train of logic that the lynch leader said was weak bullshit. The only other player following it was scum so he didn't believe it either. But you did. Or did you?

You spent all of day three trying to lynch a townie. Your entire rainbow is bass ackwards. You refused to speculate on my potential partners while insisting I have them. You referenced tinfoil as part of your reason for voting me. You thought Sloonei and Nut were bad after they lynched Marmot (who absolutely wouldn't have been lynched if either of them had focused elsewhere).

In my eyes, you haven't done anything to help the town all game. Why should anyone cut you any slack?

1. Yes you are.
2. You just said 20 minutes ago that I either didn't read all her posts, forgot, or am lying. Now you're pushing one. Why?
3. Sided with an indy.
4. I still adamantly believe the case wasn't bullshit. The flow of Day 2 is a perfect reflection of how not-bullshit it was.
5. How do you know this?
6. Completely contradictory to what you said yesterday. You acknowledged that I do not follow that thought process.
7. I asked you twice to point this out. You have answered zero times.
8. I only argued Sloonei was bad.

This is riddled with falsehoods and inconsistencies.

*LYNCH JACK*

^You imply I am scum and state that I AM trying to get a claim out of you despite saying I'm not. That's called fishing. That's you accusing me of fishing.


In regards to my "do tell" post, what part of this exchange is explained by you claiming doctor?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 90#p338990
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 94#p338994
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 08#p339008
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 6&sr=posts
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 22#p339022

Thought you were refusing to explain why you were suspicious of Nutella, softclaiming some type of info gatherer. Your doctor claim was out of left field and had literally nothing to do with what we were discussing.

I said that you're scum. That has nothing to do with this. I am saying 'Yes you are' because what you are asking me to do literally involves power claiming.

You didn't make me claim. I decided to do it on my own power because I fucked up and can't argue my way out of a wet paper bag.

You were being questioned about you distrust for Nut on EODay 2.

What does your claimed role as doctor have to do with that?

I'm not following what you're trying to say at all.

[Scotty]

INH was self-aligned, and his interests were purely his own. It wasn't the best lynch, it wasn't the worst lynch. Most importantly, in the eyes of the Hive team, he was not one of theirs. In that vein it can be treated as a mislynch, particularly during the day prior to INH revealing himself as an LMS independent role. The votes that preceded that claim:

Golden
speedchuck
JOH
Fredwood

I would appreciate if the four of you would at least briefly state or restate what motivated your INH votes when you placed them.

Dizzy and Quin voted for INH after his claim. It is more difficult to ascertain ulterior motives there as INH provided an obvious motive. I will still each of you though: what made you feel that the vote was still worth making?

He was one of 3 targets I was comfortable lynching. I still would not have voted for Jack at the end of the phase, and of my suspects he was the only one that was reasonably being pressured.

I wasn't 100 percent sure he was Mafia, but I felt the chances he was town was much slimmer. If he came on sooner and explained his theory, I don't know if I change my vote because his logic didn't make sense. He loses the game if Dys get's lynched, so there was still plenty of things that were red-flagging me about his claim that I don't know if I would have given him the leeway to get away with it.

Who were your other two suspects?

I believe you have the most experience playong with JOH of any of us, so I should probably pay attention to your opposition to his lynch. Why do you see him as a bad lynch candidate?

Scotty, Soneji

My unwillingness to vote for Jack has nothing to do with my experience in playing with him. I didn't view him as large a suspect as the other two, and my suspicion of him is based around my feeling that one of the 3 of them (JJJ/Golden/Jack) are scum, but it's not founded by evidence but assumptions based on the aggressiveness they all showed each other in Day 1, so I didn't feel it was a strong case to lynch, and wasn't willing to vote for him because of it. The only reason I kept bringing it up is because Jack keeps pushing me to read everyone.

In the end, I didn't want to take a gamble on the slim chance that a good scumhunter was scum over the slim chance that INH was town.

Wait, you currently suspect one of JJJ/Golden/Jack is scum?

JJJ is confirmed town

[juliets]

I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

LC, I forgot to ask you yesterday what made you read me as orange? Also, are there any of these reads you would change at this point?

[Long Con]

I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

LC, I forgot to ask you yesterday what made you read me as orange? Also, are there any of these reads you would change at this point?

Absolutely, there have definitely been developments since my last list... JJJJ getting confirmed town is the glaringly obvious one (RIP nutella - you may end up as MVP of this game). I'll try to cobble together a new one in my next post.

I want to apologize for being absent and missing the vote yesterday, and for not showing up until now today. I got sick. I don't know if it was stomach flu or food poisoning, but I ended up in bed after dinner, feeling nauseous and achy... and although I am the King of Not Throwing Up, I dealt with lots and lots of...

Spoiler: show

Last night I was pretty much over that unpleasantness, but my legs were aching insanely... walking around, lying down, sitting, stretching, nothing helped them. So I went to bed around 8:30, had the craziest dreams ever, and woke up around 7:30 feeling back to normal, slightly hungry.

And y'all talk so much! I read through the stuff since the night post. JJJ, your level of analysis is way beyond what I am able to put into most Mafia games, so kudos to you. Do you have a job, or sleep at all? I trust Quin, he's one of the good ones. He's been interrogated plenty, and I haven't seen anything that makes him look suspicious or lying to me. Jack, on the other hand, was gung-ho to take Quin down, and now his arguments read more like he is afraid that if he lets go too easily, he'll look bad... but he knows he needs to let go. Something like "If you're Mafia, you're lying, and if you're town, you're helping the Mafia." Like, seriously? It's ok to admit you were wrong, unless you have an investment in clinging to a perspective. Doesn't look good.

[juliets]

Yikes! Sorry about your illness LC, glad you're back to normal today.

[Long Con]

And juliets, your coloration in that list wasn't because I have specific suspicions of you to point out. Most of the list is in relation to the other folks on the list, especially the middle area. Gut feels. You could have easily been on the lighter yellow side. You're just not green because, well, why should I read you as green/Civ? Convince me that's where you should be, and maybe you can be movin' on up.

JJJ
Quin
Golden
Dyslexicon
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck
Jackofhearts

Again, Speedchuck and Jack are those that I specifically think are bad. JJJ, Golden, Quin, Dizzy, I specifically think are good. The rest I have generally ordered in what I recall feeling about them. I know I'm not playing this game at the level that some of you are, so sorry, please don't expect me to have grand cases. And don't ask me to prove my suspicion by being able to name your teammates - that's a bullshit request, and really just makes me suspect you more. Like, don't defend yourself - send out a verbal trap instead to make your accuser look like his accusations are invalid. Nah buddy.

[Long Con]

Yikes! Sorry about your illness LC, glad you're back to normal today.

I'm so happy about my legs! I need my legs. I'm actually going to work today, I had to call in sick for the first time in forever yesterday.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Juliets

Didn't say it was.

Still want people to give reads on you. My concern is the low amount of focus ON you (and Fred, LC, Sonjei, etc), not FROM you. I'm concerned at the low amount of focus FROM some of the people I listed, too.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about your alignment. While that's not your fault, it is a problem.

[Long Con]

Oh, and I am super-not-up-to-date with where the train is going. We went BACK to a previous stop??

I just voted southeast, but JJJ/Golden... lead us a little. I'll change if need be. I just wanted to vote because I tend to forget. I forgot to item vote last night, maybe even the previous one.

[juliets]

@Juliets

Didn't say it was.

Still want people to give reads on you. My concern is the low amount of focus ON you (and Fred, LC, Sonjei, etc), not FROM you. I'm concerned at the low amount of focus FROM some of the people I listed, too.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about your alignment. While that's not your fault, it is a problem.

Oh ok I misunderstood your post.

[juliets]

Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

[Scotty]

Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Why

[Scotty]

Voted southeast. I haveno idea where we are, or where we've been.

It's that early onset dimentia kickin in again

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

Can you explain this logic, Scotty?

[Scotty]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

Can you explain this logic, Scotty?

Sure.

I think Quin is telling the truth, so I have no reason to dispute it.



Why do you think he is lying?

[Jackofhearts2005]

And juliets, your coloration in that list wasn't because I have specific suspicions of you to point out. Most of the list is in relation to the other folks on the list, especially the middle area. Gut feels. You could have easily been on the lighter yellow side. You're just not green because, well, why should I read you as green/Civ? Convince me that's where you should be, and maybe you can be movin' on up.

JJJ
Quin
Golden
Dyslexicon
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck
Jackofhearts

Again, Speedchuck and Jack are those that I specifically think are bad. JJJ, Golden, Quin, Dizzy, I specifically think are good. The rest I have generally ordered in what I recall feeling about them. I know I'm not playing this game at the level that some of you are, so sorry, please don't expect me to have grand cases. And don't ask me to prove my suspicion by being able to name your teammates - that's a bullshit request, and really just makes me suspect you more. Like, don't defend yourself - send out a verbal trap instead to make your accuser look like his accusations are invalid. Nah buddy.

A trap?

I'm asking you to explain a contradiction. How is pointing out a contradiction and asking you to explain it scummy?

You didn't say either me or Speed is bad. You said that you think we're both bad. As in together. Makes no sense. Why don't you want to talk about that?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

Can you explain this logic, Scotty?

Sure.

I think Quin is telling the truth, so I have no reason to dispute it.



Why do you think he is lying?

Quin: I am doctor
Scotty: Good enough for me (I translate this to "This claim makes me trust Quin MORE than before. Please clarify if this is not the case.)
JoH: Why?
Scotty: Because. Why not?

Answer the question and I'll answer yours.

[juliets]

Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Why

Because it was such a big deal yesterday, you proving yourself, and I don't see how you would forget. I don't work though so maybe I am projecting my ability to remember things I need to do in mafia onto you. That's why I say a "little" nervous.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

[juliets]

Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

Fake claiming is almost never done here because it generally isn't allowed. It's hard for me to know what to make of them. I'm trying not to automatically believe them though.

[Scotty]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

Can you explain this logic, Scotty?

Sure.

I think Quin is telling the truth, so I have no reason to dispute it.



Why do you think he is lying?

Quin: I am doctor
Scotty: Good enough for me (I translate this to "This claim makes me trust Quin MORE than before. Please clarify if this is not the case.)
JoH: Why?
Scotty: Because. Why not?

Answer the question and I'll answer yours.

I answered your question. I don't think I'm being vague. I haven't felt suspicious of Quin for a while now. So it's not even that I necessarily trust me MORE than before. I'm just taking his infodump as just that.

Now. Why do you have a reason to say he's a liar without being a doctor yourself?

[speedchuck]

CHATCHING UP

Okay. I looked at the prior games speedchuck linked for me. I also looked at three other games he didn't provide.

1. speedchuck mafia-aligned (Credithunt):

45 posts (leader 205), survived game / 2.5 phases
~ Fewer posts, decent content per post.
~ Unafraid of establishing communicative links with the broad player roster


2. speedchuck town-aligned (Crooks Hollow IV):

45 posts (leader 132), replaced in on Day 5 / survived 2 phases? until endgame
~ Short posts, a bit more inclined to rapid-fire posting
~ Responsive, less inclined toward facilitation

3. speedchuck town-aligned (Themefia/Red Wedding):

78 posts (leader 96), survived 3.5 phases? until endgame
~ More short posts with some bigger ones sprinkled in, more rapid-fire posting
~ Bigger posts prevalent late

4. speedchuck town-aligned (Winefia):

85 posts (leader 175), survived a while (phases unclear)
~ Slow start, post size highly variable, a little rapid-fire again
~ Highest frequency of large posts seen so far

5. speedchuck mafia-aligned (Create Your Own Role Card)

82 posts (leader 106), survived 4.5 phases
~ Analytically-inclined
~ Rapid-fire posting happening

The two orange games are the ones he shared with me at my request. The green games were my own added research. Now I'll assess speedchuck in this game based upon the same kinds of aesthetic/behavioral observations:

speedchuck unknown alignment (Phenon Mafia, The Syndicate)

147 posts (leader 361), survived 3 phases so far
~ Post length is variable, but the larger posts appear often, analytically-inclined
~ Rapid-fire posting decently frequent

On an aesthetic level, I think his play in this game most closely resembles #4 and #5. This means there is a meta basis to associate him with either alignment. It should be stated though that he provided me with neither of these games, and they're both as recent as the games he did provide (#5, his mafia-aligned game, is more recent than the mafia game he provided). Questions for speedchuck:

~ Why did you select the games that you selected in response to my request?
~ How would you describe your own metas as a player in town and mafia alignments?
~ Has your approach changed in any way in this environment where you're less familiar with other players?

The town game was recent-ish, and I survived for a good while. Lots of info there, probably.
I won the scum game, and I take every effort to brag about it. :P

My meta has been evolving. Basically, as town, I'm earnest and carefree with my posts a lot of the time. I try to let my natural innocence take over.
As mafia, I try to act as town, just as town that doesn't get the best results in scumhunting. Usually, I feel I am slightly more analytical as well. I also usually buddy the crap out of townies that I know.
I haven't had many scumgames, so it's hard to say, and I don't think there's a huge difference in the two metas at this point.

I use less meta-reads here. I depend more on others' meta reads. Other than that, this is the same shtick, I think. I haven't played a game in a while though.

Currently leaning scum on Eloh, Fred...do we expect 5 scum? 6? I haven't played another single mafia game on the Syndicate but my understanding is the numbers are a bit more forgivable (protown) than Realms games.

No clue. sprityo's game is not typical of Syndicate structure. The tendencies on his site that I saw seemed to favor a ratio around 7:2 town:scum, but it's all guessing really.

Where I come from (and in the Tehpilot games that I think sprityo is using as reference), it's usually 2:1 town:non-town. For this setup, 5 scum would be reasonable, with a third party or two. Err on the side of more town.
This balance is because town has so many power roles, and claiming is okay.


Note: Quin, if fake-claiming, picked the most unbelievable thing. Marmot is dead. Town redirector wouldn't have probably targeted quin. Quin doctored the kill, but it went through.

I don't think Quin is stupid enough to pick an unbelievable lie. My town read on quin is still #neverwaver.

[speedchuck]

Basically, even though the claim came out of left field, I follow Quin's motive and reasoning for this particular claim and think that this is town motive and reasoning.

[Scotty]

Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Why

Because it was such a big deal yesterday, you proving yourself, and I don't see how you would forget. I don't work though so maybe I am projecting my ability to remember things I need to do in mafia onto you. That's why I say a "little" nervous.

Ah yea, then I guess it's a misunderstanding. I was only around for a hot seconf all of yesterday and in doing so I used it to catch up on what I missed from EoD. I didn't get around to activating because I forgot to do so in my 20 min catch up.

That it makes you "nervous" is still a weird phrasing. Nervous about whether or not I'm good, I guess?

[Scotty]

I'm feeling better and better about speedchuck.
Which means my big red suspicions are getting slimmer. I probably need to reasses and get more suspicions.

I suppose I'll look at Straw, Fred and Soneji, since they are a big ?? For me.

Juliets, you seem a bit more reserved this game, actually, than the recent ones I remember. I was chocking that up to you trying to catch up, but I'd love some more reads at some point from you before I feel good about you. On a scale of 1-6 I'd rate you a 4. Or just a bit less than null.

[juliets]

Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Why

Because it was such a big deal yesterday, you proving yourself, and I don't see how you would forget. I don't work though so maybe I am projecting my ability to remember things I need to do in mafia onto you. That's why I say a "little" nervous.

Ah yea, then I guess it's a misunderstanding. I was only around for a hot seconf all of yesterday and in doing so I used it to catch up on what I missed from EoD. I didn't get around to activating because I forgot to do so in my 20 min catch up.

That it makes you "nervous" is still a weird phrasing. Nervous about whether or not I'm good, I guess?

Yes, nervous that I have you rated as a 3 on a scale of 1-6 with the only caveat being that I might tend to halo you because of GOC. "Nervous" is not an unusual state for me though in general.

And sure I'll try some reads. I have a lot of yellow.

[speedchuck]

These scales of 1 to 6... is a 6 scum or town?

[Scotty]

These scales of 1 to 6... is a 6 scum or town?

6=pondscum

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

I haven't "automatically believed" Quin's claim. I don't think it's a confirmed reality. I do think there are reasons to believe it though. It came early in the phase before pressure truly mounted (I doubt a couple of votes from you and I sent Quin into a panic). His hinting, starting with his immediate "intriguing" reaction to nutella's demise, precedes those votes.

If you think some have been too quick to accept the claim, I can understand. I would assert though that you were too quick to reject it. You even rejected it before it happened. That's not sensible either unless Quin's claim is directly at odds with your own role. You've said that it isn't.

[Marmot]

Rezz please.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

Can you explain this logic, Scotty?

Sure.

I think Quin is telling the truth, so I have no reason to dispute it.



Why do you think he is lying?

Quin: I am doctor
Scotty: Good enough for me (I translate this to "This claim makes me trust Quin MORE than before. Please clarify if this is not the case.)
JoH: Why?
Scotty: Because. Why not?

Answer the question and I'll answer yours.

I answered your question. I don't think I'm being vague. I haven't felt suspicious of Quin for a while now. So it's not even that I necessarily trust me MORE than before. I'm just taking his infodump as just that.

Now. Why do you have a reason to say he's a liar without being a doctor yourself?

I guess I misunderstood your post, then.

Point of fact. I'm not claiming doctor but I'm not not claiming doctor. Off the top of my head, I can think of five town roles that I would have targeted roughly the same players with on the same nights. My role doesn't have much to do with it, though. This is a CF setup. Even if I was a straight doctor (and I'm not saying I'm not...or that I am), I wouldn't say "There is no way there is not also a town odd night doctor."

My reason for disbelieving Quin's claim is twofold.

1) I think Quin is scum so I tend to disbelieve whatever he claims.'
2) I see no reason for a townie in Quin's situation to claim what he did. That is of no use to the town at all. However, a scummer in that situation might scare off town votes who are on the fence and wary of lynching the doctor. When I see a player make a move that would be a better move if they were scum than if they were town, it makes me think they are more likely to be town.

Does that answer your question?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Off the top of my head, I can think of five town roles that I would have targeted roughly the same players with on the same nights.

Do you think there'd be any harm in stating those five?

[juliets]

JJJ
Sloonei
Dyslexicon
Golden
speedchuck*

Scotty
Long Con
Fredwood
Soneji

Strawhenge**
Jack of Hearts***

*If there was a color that was a lighter green thats where I would rate speedchuck. I read through his posts and like what he was saying about the Dyslexicon suspicions while they were going on and otherwise he seemed to be trying to analyze and give his view on things. I agree with the school of thought the he could have just not voted for MM and that been seen as ok. This is really a gut read, I don't know him at all.
**Because he seems to have disappeared but unlike Elo hasn't asked for replacement. I need to read through his posts.
**Still at the bottom but I am re-evaluating based on his Silver Lantern claim.

If someone moves into solid red I will place a vote for them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Public service announcement to The People:

Scenarios like this tend to turn day phases into a two-party debate. Don't let that happen. Discuss JOH and Quin to your heart's desire, but only if you're also discussing everyone else. This is a reminder, not an admonishment. No matter what the alignments in this dynamic, the scum benefit from a narrowly focused town group.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey all.

Missed the last 16 hours or so. Not supposed to be reading...this is my lone exception since I'm in the middle of a game. But try getting off social media and news sources for 24 hours sometime. It's hard, but freeing.

Rip Nutella! Thanks for your fabulous insight!

Dat EoD tho. I understand why INH admitting he was a LMS role got him lynched, but I still think Jack is bad. Nothing he has done so far has changed my opinion since yesterday.

I think regardless of how he defended himself at EoD, he still doesn't look great from day 2, or his muddled rainbows early on.

Quin claimed odd day doctor? Ok. Good enough for me.
Jack's immediate response is to say Quin's lying, but also says he won't claim doctor and that he'll claim at some point if he needs to, but the time isn't right.

Man, I must not know how to play these infodump games, because y'all be claimin early and often like a meteor's about to hit tomorrow.

I'm looking to vote Jack again, but want to know the votals to make sure we don't go over the hammer.

Can you explain this logic, Scotty?

Sure.

I think Quin is telling the truth, so I have no reason to dispute it.



Why do you think he is lying?

Quin: I am doctor
Scotty: Good enough for me (I translate this to "This claim makes me trust Quin MORE than before. Please clarify if this is not the case.)
JoH: Why?
Scotty: Because. Why not?

Answer the question and I'll answer yours.

I answered your question. I don't think I'm being vague. I haven't felt suspicious of Quin for a while now. So it's not even that I necessarily trust me MORE than before. I'm just taking his infodump as just that.

Now. Why do you have a reason to say he's a liar without being a doctor yourself?

I guess I misunderstood your post, then.

Point of fact. I'm not claiming doctor but I'm not not claiming doctor. Off the top of my head, I can think of five town roles that I would have targeted roughly the same players with on the same nights. My role doesn't have much to do with it, though. This is a CF setup. Even if I was a straight doctor (and I'm not saying I'm not...or that I am), I wouldn't say "There is no way there is not also a town odd night doctor."

My reason for disbelieving Quin's claim is twofold.

1) I think Quin is scum so I tend to disbelieve whatever he claims.'
2) I see no reason for a townie in Quin's situation to claim what he did. That is of no use to the town at all. However, a scummer in that situation might scare off town votes who are on the fence and wary of lynching the doctor. When I see a player make a move that would be a better move if they were scum than if they were town, it makes me think they are more likely to be not town.

Does that answer your question?


EBWOP

[JaggedJimmyJay]

**Because he seems to have disappeared but unlike Elo hasn't asked for replacement. I need to read through his posts.

Thanks for the reads, juliets. I think you forgot Elohcin though; where'd she be situated on the ol' rainbow?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Off the top of my head, I can think of five town roles that I would have targeted roughly the same players with on the same nights.

Do you think there'd be any harm in stating those five?

Not at all.

Doctor
Bodyguard
Nexus
Guide
Unculter

[juliets]

**Because he seems to have disappeared but unlike Elo hasn't asked for replacement. I need to read through his posts.

Thanks for the reads, juliets. I think you forgot Elohcin though; where'd she be situated on the ol' rainbow?

I think I also forgot Quin.

Quin would be in light green and Eloh would be in yellow.