The Hobbit Mafia: Day 12

[Vompatti]

It says google in it so I'm not even going to attempt to view it.

[fingersplints]

OK, so quick summary of MP and FZ's posts.

MP:
Right out of the gate, he tried to interact with as many people as possible. Llama was the person he talked to the most, and all of those interactions were positive. He began a case on his teammate, FZ, which he pushed for most of the day, before flirting with voting with llama for Dom. In the end, he suddenly voted for Spacedaisy. He was maybe the only person in the thread who defended me against people looking for an easy vote.
he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, DFaraday, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Elochin, niju, Rey, and Spaghetti.

FZ:
An incredibly wishy-washy player. Goes from condemning a person, to saying that person is the only one she trusts. She starts waffling around an MP vote, but changes her opinion of him once a post. Also extremely divided on Epig and Dom. She finds the sudden bandwagon on me suspicious, as do I, and she mentions Juliets and SD. Then, she mentions voting for SD. Doesn't even address why her, and not juliets. Later, of course, she takes that back and finds me suspicious again. It looks like MP and co. tried to start a bandwagon on SD. MP and Vompatti both voted for her. Vompatti, as always, hides behind a wall of random fuckery, but his buddy-buddy attitude towards both MP and FZ makes me nervous. At this point, I'm pretty sure that SD is not on the same baddie team as MP and FZ. But, the first person MP mentioned that he suspected was FZ. Maybe they're just playing a super fucking ballsy game. Knowing both MP and FZ, it wouldn't surprise me. After talking about Rey for one post, all of a sudden, she calls him "one of my top suspects". She also does the same thing with Mongoose.
People he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, BWT, Boogs, DFaraday, DP, Elochin, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Kyle, Lea, niju, Snow Dog, and Spaghetti.

People MP and FZ didn't even mention or talk to:
A Person
DFaraday
Elochin
fingersplints
Flyin' High
nijuuk
SpaghettiEverywhere

Why would MP mention me? I didn't join the game until after he was lynched

[insertnamehere]

I'll screenshot it.

[Marmot]

OK, so quick summary of MP and FZ's posts.

MP:
Right out of the gate, he tried to interact with as many people as possible. Llama was the person he talked to the most, and all of those interactions were positive. He began a case on his teammate, FZ, which he pushed for most of the day, before flirting with voting with llama for Dom. In the end, he suddenly voted for Spacedaisy. He was maybe the only person in the thread who defended me against people looking for an easy vote.
he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, DFaraday, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Elochin, niju, Rey, and Spaghetti.

FZ:
An incredibly wishy-washy player. Goes from condemning a person, to saying that person is the only one she trusts. She starts waffling around an MP vote, but changes her opinion of him once a post. Also extremely divided on Epig and Dom. She finds the sudden bandwagon on me suspicious, as do I, and she mentions Juliets and SD. Then, she mentions voting for SD. Doesn't even address why her, and not juliets. Later, of course, she takes that back and finds me suspicious again. It looks like MP and co. tried to start a bandwagon on SD. MP and Vompatti both voted for her. Vompatti, as always, hides behind a wall of random fuckery, but his buddy-buddy attitude towards both MP and FZ makes me nervous. At this point, I'm pretty sure that SD is not on the same baddie team as MP and FZ. But, the first person MP mentioned that he suspected was FZ. Maybe they're just playing a super fucking ballsy game. Knowing both MP and FZ, it wouldn't surprise me. After talking about Rey for one post, all of a sudden, she calls him "one of my top suspects". She also does the same thing with Mongoose.
People he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, BWT, Boogs, DFaraday, DP, Elochin, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Kyle, Lea, niju, Snow Dog, and Spaghetti.

People MP and FZ didn't even mention or talk to:
A Person
DFaraday
Elochin
fingersplints
Flyin' High
nijuuk
SpaghettiEverywhere

Why would MP mention me? I didn't join the game until after he was lynched

Too late, you're on the spreadsheet.

Thanks for putting this together INH.

[insertnamehere]

OK, this is more than a little bit sloppy, I had to mess with the formatting in order to fit it all in one screenshot. It may be hard to read. If you have trouble, use the link the see the actual version. It's much easier to read.

http://imgur.com/ZCm2bO7

Click on the image to get a larger version.

[Boogs]

Insertnamehere, I'm very confused by that spreadsheet thing. I know you posted what those words mean that you made up, but I don't get TH - and + values? Baffled...

[Boogs]

The*

[fingersplints]

OK, so quick summary of MP and FZ's posts.

MP:
Right out of the gate, he tried to interact with as many people as possible. Llama was the person he talked to the most, and all of those interactions were positive. He began a case on his teammate, FZ, which he pushed for most of the day, before flirting with voting with llama for Dom. In the end, he suddenly voted for Spacedaisy. He was maybe the only person in the thread who defended me against people looking for an easy vote.
he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, DFaraday, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Elochin, niju, Rey, and Spaghetti.

FZ:
An incredibly wishy-washy player. Goes from condemning a person, to saying that person is the only one she trusts. She starts waffling around an MP vote, but changes her opinion of him once a post. Also extremely divided on Epig and Dom. She finds the sudden bandwagon on me suspicious, as do I, and she mentions Juliets and SD. Then, she mentions voting for SD. Doesn't even address why her, and not juliets. Later, of course, she takes that back and finds me suspicious again. It looks like MP and co. tried to start a bandwagon on SD. MP and Vompatti both voted for her. Vompatti, as always, hides behind a wall of random fuckery, but his buddy-buddy attitude towards both MP and FZ makes me nervous. At this point, I'm pretty sure that SD is not on the same baddie team as MP and FZ. But, the first person MP mentioned that he suspected was FZ. Maybe they're just playing a super fucking ballsy game. Knowing both MP and FZ, it wouldn't surprise me. After talking about Rey for one post, all of a sudden, she calls him "one of my top suspects". She also does the same thing with Mongoose.
People he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, BWT, Boogs, DFaraday, DP, Elochin, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Kyle, Lea, niju, Snow Dog, and Spaghetti.

People MP and FZ didn't even mention or talk to:
A Person
DFaraday
Elochin
fingersplints
Flyin' High
nijuuk
SpaghettiEverywhere

Why would MP mention me? I didn't join the game until after he was lynched

Too late, you're on the spreadsheet.

Thanks for putting this together INH.

I don't accept this.

I did notice while checking MPs posts to verify if the rest of the list is right, that MP seemed to defend inh a lot day 1. (Maybe not a lot. twice at least though) Just interesting since he is trying to draw our attention away just to those who weren't mention even though from FZ we know he likes to mention his teammates.

[insertnamehere]

Insertnamehere, I'm very confused by that spreadsheet thing. I know you posted what those words mean that you made up, but I don't get TH - and + values? Baffled...

TH = Turnip Head

OK, so, I assigned each little MinPos and RegNeg a numerical value, and added them up to see who was the most liked and disliked according to MP and FZ.

The most "disliked" was Vompatti, and the most "liked" was Llama.

Just something to think about.

[insertnamehere]

OK, so quick summary of MP and FZ's posts.

MP:
Right out of the gate, he tried to interact with as many people as possible. Llama was the person he talked to the most, and all of those interactions were positive. He began a case on his teammate, FZ, which he pushed for most of the day, before flirting with voting with llama for Dom. In the end, he suddenly voted for Spacedaisy. He was maybe the only person in the thread who defended me against people looking for an easy vote.
he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, DFaraday, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Elochin, niju, Rey, and Spaghetti.

FZ:
An incredibly wishy-washy player. Goes from condemning a person, to saying that person is the only one she trusts. She starts waffling around an MP vote, but changes her opinion of him once a post. Also extremely divided on Epig and Dom. She finds the sudden bandwagon on me suspicious, as do I, and she mentions Juliets and SD. Then, she mentions voting for SD. Doesn't even address why her, and not juliets. Later, of course, she takes that back and finds me suspicious again. It looks like MP and co. tried to start a bandwagon on SD. MP and Vompatti both voted for her. Vompatti, as always, hides behind a wall of random fuckery, but his buddy-buddy attitude towards both MP and FZ makes me nervous. At this point, I'm pretty sure that SD is not on the same baddie team as MP and FZ. But, the first person MP mentioned that he suspected was FZ. Maybe they're just playing a super fucking ballsy game. Knowing both MP and FZ, it wouldn't surprise me. After talking about Rey for one post, all of a sudden, she calls him "one of my top suspects". She also does the same thing with Mongoose.
People he didn't even mention or talk to: A Person, BWT, Boogs, DFaraday, DP, Elochin, fingersplints, Flyin' High, Kyle, Lea, niju, Snow Dog, and Spaghetti.

People MP and FZ didn't even mention or talk to:
A Person
DFaraday
Elochin
fingersplints
Flyin' High
nijuuk
SpaghettiEverywhere

Why would MP mention me? I didn't join the game until after he was lynched

Too late, you're on the spreadsheet.

Thanks for putting this together INH.

I don't accept this.

I did notice while checking MPs posts to verify if the rest of the list is right, that MP seemed to defend inh a lot day 1. (Maybe not a lot. twice at least though) Just interesting since he is trying to draw our attention away just to those who weren't mention even though from FZ we know he likes to mention his teammates.

What are you saying? I did include myself in these ratings. I'm the second most "liked" person after Llama. If you're going suspect me for MP and FZ talking about me, at least mention some of the other people they talked about.

[thellama73]

the most "liked" was Llama.

To the surprise of no one.

[fingersplints]

I suspect you for MP, a known baddie, defending suspicion of you, not for just talking about you
And also for unjustly including me on a suspicion list I don't belong on

[juliets]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

llama, I went back and looked at your posts because I could not remember what you had said about reywas in the past but I could only find the comment you made to FZ that you were inclined to agree with her that this was rewas's baddie game. Now, I don't mean to say that you had not given him thought all along but could you just expound on the other reasons you see him as potentially bad? Are you saying that the 2cnd reason particularly applies to reywas because he was the last one to vote or are there other reasons you think it particularly applies to him? I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs, I just want to make sure I understand them.

[thellama73]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

llama, I went back and looked at your posts because I could not remember what you had said about reywas in the past but I could only find the comment you made to FZ that you were inclined to agree with her that this was rewas's baddie game. Now, I don't mean to say that you had not given him thought all along but could you just expound on the other reasons you see him as potentially bad? Are you saying that the 2cnd reason particularly applies to reywas because he was the last one to vote or are there other reasons you think it particularly applies to him? I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs, I just want to make sure I understand them.

Hi juliets!

So far reywaS has mostly escaped my focus, but as you say, the one time I was directed to pay attention to him, I found him shifty.

The last vote on a bandwagon stands out to me, because it is a vote that avoids accountability. The person is going to get lynched anyway, so piling on doesn't make a difference, and if the person flips bad you can say "yay, I voted for a baddie, look how good I am!"

It's not conclusive, but that's why I am thinking reywaS may be a villain this game.

[Marmot]

I don't accept this.

I did notice while checking MPs posts to verify if the rest of the list is right, that MP seemed to defend inh a lot day 1. (Maybe not a lot. twice at least though) Just interesting since he is trying to draw our attention away just to those who weren't mention even though from FZ we know he likes to mention his teammates.

That's the kind of list Mongoose (or Lizzy?) was asking about and planning on putting together. And I wouldn't necessarily call someone who is liked by MP good either.

I also kind of assumed the Necromancer would hate everyone Especially those from Willowdale.

[Marmot]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

llama, I went back and looked at your posts because I could not remember what you had said about reywas in the past but I could only find the comment you made to FZ that you were inclined to agree with her that this was rewas's baddie game. Now, I don't mean to say that you had not given him thought all along but could you just expound on the other reasons you see him as potentially bad? Are you saying that the 2cnd reason particularly applies to reywas because he was the last one to vote or are there other reasons you think it particularly applies to him? I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs, I just want to make sure I understand them.

Hi juliets!

So far reywaS has mostly escaped my focus, but as you say, the one time I was directed to pay attention to him, I found him shifty.

The last vote on a bandwagon stands out to me, because it is a vote that avoids accountability. The person is going to get lynched anyway, so piling on doesn't make a difference, and if the person flips bad you can say "yay, I voted for a baddie, look how good I am!"

It's not conclusive, but that's why I am thinking reywaS may be a villain this game.

Then you should vote reywas tomorrow and see what happens.

[Mongoose]

good work, INH. I will look forward to viewing the google doc when I'm not on my possessed phone from hell.

Hugs & mugs to CBK.

[thellama73]

Then you should vote reywas tomorrow and see what happens.

Alas, I only have one vote to give, and he is far from my only suspect.

[Mongoose]

Some studies have been saying that taking vitamins is associated with earlier death. So some people posit that vitamins are causing people to die early. but in actuality, it's that maybe people who take vitamins feel compelled to do so because their diets are terrible

I don't believe in nutrition.

I do believe you are a bad mongoose this game, though.

Listen, Brometheus. You can end this senseless campaign against me or you can find something fact-based that I can respond to, which I will happily.

OR you can continue to throw your vote away like a Nader vote in 2000.

[thellama73]

Some studies have been saying that taking vitamins is associated with earlier death. So some people posit that vitamins are causing people to die early. but in actuality, it's that maybe people who take vitamins feel compelled to do so because their diets are terrible

I don't believe in nutrition.

I do believe you are a bad mongoose this game, though.

Listen, Brometheus. You can end this senseless campaign against me or you can find something fact-based that I can respond to, which I will happily.

OR you can continue to throw your vote away like a Nader vote in 2000.

I don't think it is throwing your vote away to vote for what you believe to be the best choice. I think it is throwing your vote away to vote for someone you don't believe in. This applies to mafia as well as politics.

I'll get back to you once I have a little more time to reread.

[Leamiteo]

I haven't caught up on the several pages since the lynch post but have to vote here before my lunch break is up.

I don't feel good about either option. Why didn't I bring rope?!

Be swept away by the river or potentially lost/separated from the group/attacked?

I think I'll take my chances fording the river as opposed to swimming. Safety in numbers too, right?

[insertnamehere]

So, I have a game that has been languishing in sign-up's for far too long. It's called Three Chambers. I'm trying to do something different, something no one has ever done before. If you want to be a part of that, here's the sign up thread: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... f=52&t=366

The player list so far looks amazing, and I only need three more in order to start. It's a "micro" game that will only last around a week. Perfect for a side game while you play this one.

Thank you.

[kneel4justice]

K4j, do you think that if MP distanced hard from his teammates, that FZ would look to do the same? Seems like her shtick was to play defense, judging by the MP lynch. I am not sure they would both use the same tactics against their own teammates.

This.

So you're against the idea that FZ distanced from at least one team-member?

[kneel4justice]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

I'm not sure what to think about Rey. I thought that his suspicion of FZ was a good thing, he was going against here when really, only I was. Unless it was distancing and he didn't think she had a chance at being lynched. I do remember come the last few minutes when I had more votes or was tied I saw him online but not posting & asked him if he was going to vote, only then did he. So I guess it is a possibility that he and FZ got carried away in distancing and he was forced to vote her.
I was hoping he was good because I liked his posts against FZ.

[Snow Dog]

I'm used to night phases being relatively quiet. This is the chattiest game for night time ever! Shut up you lot!

[thellama73]

Just did a full reread of Mongoose. If you look up "non-committal" in the dictionary, there is a picture of her. I encourage everyone else to do the same reread, because I think you will be struck by how few opinions she has actually advanced. In fact, she hasn't overtly come out and suspected anyone all game. Her posts mainly consist of asking questions and pondering unproductively, and while she claims to be doing analysis, there is no in-thread evidence of this.

These two posts stood out to me.

After such a long hiatus, I'm feeling rusty. ( I am not, however, feeling Russti, as that would be inappropriate).

I'm hung up on Llama's line (that you quoted) about knowing PMs were missing. I can't get past it. For one, he'd know there were missing PMs if he was on the baddie team, but (and this is a pretty big butt) I can't imagine Llama kowtowing to teammates who wanted to withhold using their power for the day. I know SVS has artfully and tactically used this maneuver, but that's not really his M.O. Let's say that Logan is a civ and didn't send in his power. 1) That's a big slip for him to make in-thread and 2) back to the issue of him being an uber-active player and not wanting to withhold action. He'll wake up to an onslaught tomorrow, but I hope he can delve more into this issue.

Random: Matt is being chatty. And I like that. Sometimes he is like that when he is being managed on a team (Lizzy has handled him quite well in the past, for instance), but I think it's more than he was called out (and Vomperdoodle) for not being as helpful as he could. Matt's a realllllly smart guy, so I'm hoping it's just him feeling comfortable enough to participate more. Mattmatt, I hope you don't take offense of any of that. I know it doesn't sound very polite to insinuate someone is being coached, but that's not precisely what I mean (V&A wouldn't mind being coached by L, if you know what they mean).

Notice the subtle implantation of the seed that I am not to be trusted. Not an accusation, just hints, almost subliminal remarks designed to undermine me in the eyes of others. Very clever.

Second,

I'm going to go ahead and commit to FZ. Plus, I don't want to spread the vote out further, especially when I'm (at least presently) feeling good about Kitty Kitty.

Why vote FZ? She doesn't ever say. It is a go-along-to-get-along vote. She missed the Day 1 vote and gave no real reason for her Day 2 vote. The only thing this vote proves is that she is probably not on FZ's team, but I think she is a baddie nevertheless.

Other people should read. I think you'll see what I see.

[Elohcin]

Woah, you guys are chatty!

Okay, so I've noticed a few people like to take credit for last night's lynch despite not voting for FZ or not at all.

I can't believe we got a second baddie on the second day! Good voting all of you who voted FZ.! Goodbye FZ. I'm sorry I won't get to play more with you but I am so glad we've got two down in the first two days - I don't think I've ever seen this before.

With Juliets the situation is a tad delicate. Had I not had a conversation with her in the X-Men game where she confessed that she was not good at building cases and just went with what others brought to the table, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with Rey that her vote for Eloh seems either lazy or opportunistic, or both. Actually, I kinda do a bit. You haven't even mentioned Elo's name until you voted for her, and the reasoning behind it was just that 'oh Rob said his spouse was bad and he's usually right about it' without any other kind of personal input whatsoever. The way this reads to me is that you didn't even go and read Elo's posts to see if Rob does indeed have a point, but merely took his word for it. He's not always right, you know. Actually he screwed up big time in HP and he pretty much handed the game on a silver platter to the baddies because he didn't read Elo correctly. I'm not saying this is the case here, he actually made some pretty good points and well worth looking into, but the way you justify your choice is questionable, to put it nicely. I remember encouraging you to practice and develop your case building skills. I think that is more desirable than following others just because 'they're usually right'. I will be keeping an eye on you though.

It's true I'm not really a case builder but the reason I went with Epig was a little different. And you're right I didn't mention Eloh's name until I voted her but I don't really see what that has to do with anything since I've said forthrightly that it's the fact that Epi made the case that made the case compelling. You may have noticed but he often connects dots that others have not because in my opinion he see's relationships where others of us may not. I can see what you mean by the way it looks like I didn't go over the facts of her case but I did and as I said above, it was Epig's conclusions that sold me. And I realize he was wrong once in HP but I have seen him do this and be right in many, many games. He's the only person I can think of that I would vote based on his opinion of a certain person so I don't just vote based on just anyone being 'usually right'. I think to truly understand this whole thing you would have had to be part of the conversations Epig and I had about his reads of Eloh so I understand that you would want to keep and eye on me, even though I'm not sure why voting with Epig would mean I was bad unless he was bad. Maybe thats what you meant. Anyway, I think I've said all there is to say about my vote for Eloh.

And where have you had these conversations about me? BTSC perhaps? BTSC during THIS GAME perhaps? on the both of yuse.

Yes btsc in the champions game.

From what I remember of the BTSC in the champions game he did not reveal much of why he could read me, only that he COULD read me. In fact, I remember you and I asking him how he knows whether I am good or bad and he refused to say. Why would he reveal how he reads me good or bad when I was a part of the BTSC? That would be silly.

Now for more catching up. Y'all talk a lot

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

swang

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

I'm going to be voting swing as well

[Snow Dog]

[reywaS]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

[reywaS]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

llama, I went back and looked at your posts because I could not remember what you had said about reywas in the past but I could only find the comment you made to FZ that you were inclined to agree with her that this was rewas's baddie game. Now, I don't mean to say that you had not given him thought all along but could you just expound on the other reasons you see him as potentially bad? Are you saying that the 2cnd reason particularly applies to reywas because he was the last one to vote or are there other reasons you think it particularly applies to him? I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs, I just want to make sure I understand them.

Hi juliets!

So far reywaS has mostly escaped my focus, but as you say, the one time I was directed to pay attention to him, I found him shifty.

The last vote on a bandwagon stands out to me, because it is a vote that avoids accountability. The person is going to get lynched anyway, so piling on doesn't make a difference, and if the person flips bad you can say "yay, I voted for a baddie, look how good I am!"

It's not conclusive, but that's why I am thinking reywaS may be a villain this game.

See here you make it look like my vote for FZ was out of nowhere and the only reason I did it was because there were already votes there. That's bogus.

Also, now you are saying that my vote is why you are thinking I may be a villain, yet you had mentioned me (in direct response to FZ I might add) already saying before I ever voted that you thought I might be bad.

[juliets]

From what I remember of the BTSC in the champions game he did not reveal much of why he could read me, only that he COULD read me. In fact, I remember you and I asking him how he knows whether I am good or bad and he refused to say. Why would he reveal how he reads me good or bad when I was a part of the BTSC? That would be silly.

Now for more catching up. Y'all talk a lot

Elo it's not how he reads you that is important to me, though he did reveal enough for me to know it's not necessarily things I would catch in the thread but more things he would catch having lived with you for 10 years and knowing things that you just pick up after that time together. What's most important to me though is that i became convinced that he could read you, not that I know every single thing he uses to read you. If I am wrong here and he is purposely framing you or he is just wrong about you then that's my mistake and I will never believe him again. Neither will anyone else.

Also Kate had bts with us but rarely came there.

[reywaS]

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

I'm not sure what to think about Rey. I thought that his suspicion of FZ was a good thing, he was going against here when really, only I was. Unless it was distancing and he didn't think she had a chance at being lynched. I do remember come the last few minutes when I had more votes or was tied I saw him online but not posting & asked him if he was going to vote, only then did he. So I guess it is a possibility that he and FZ got carried away in distancing and he was forced to vote her.
I was hoping he was good because I liked his posts against FZ.

You made that post when there were literally only moments remaining in the lynch poll. I'm still not use to these 430 pm lynch end times. That's why my vote was at the last minute.

[reywaS]

Also, if all I was doing with FZ was distancing from a team mate, then I'm pretty dumb for not voicing any other suspicions. FZ was literally my only suspicion yesterday.

[Vompatti]

I have no idae who to vote haha xD! I'll problablly randomize lol

[Dom]

K4j, do you think that if MP distanced hard from his teammates, that FZ would look to do the same? Seems like her shtick was to play defense, judging by the MP lynch. I am not sure they would both use the same tactics against their own teammates.

This.

I'm not really saying anything yet; I gotta see the stats. However, if there were only 2 names neither cited, I'd really wanna know about it. MP was only here for Day 1 period though, so I bet the list would not just be 2 people.

And again, I'm leery of the causation = correlation argument, so even though Eloh is on that list -- that alone isn't enough to ensure my vote for her without some intense, corroborating evidence.

Mongoose, you seem to imply that there is no corroborating evidence against Eloh. Have you read Epig's posts?

of course i have, but i was talking about the stats in a vacuum and saying I couldnt just rely on those.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but then what was the point of this? The case on Elohcin is not just correlation. I am very confused as to what you're hoping to say with this.

And where have you had these conversations about me? BTSC perhaps? BTSC during THIS GAME perhaps? on the both of yuse.

Oh, come on, Elo! Don't be that desperate!
I mean:

From what I remember of the BTSC in the champions game he did not reveal much of why he could read me, only that he COULD read me. In fact, I remember you and I asking him how he knows whether I am good or bad and he refused to say. Why would he reveal how he reads me good or bad when I was a part of the BTSC? That would be silly.

Now for more catching up. Y'all talk a lot

So, you had btsc with them, you saw them talk about it, and then you accused them of having BTSC in this game?

K4j, do you think that if MP distanced hard from his teammates, that FZ would look to do the same? Seems like her shtick was to play defense, judging by the MP lynch. I am not sure they would both use the same tactics against their own teammates.

This.

So you're against the idea that FZ distanced from at least one team-member?

Not necessarily against it-- I would say I don't know why we're assuming it's true.

Just did a full reread of Mongoose. If you look up "non-committal" in the dictionary, there is a picture of her. I encourage everyone else to do the same reread, because I think you will be struck by how few opinions she has actually advanced. In fact, she hasn't overtly come out and suspected anyone all game. Her posts mainly consist of asking questions and pondering unproductively, and while she claims to be doing analysis, there is no in-thread evidence of this.

These two posts stood out to me.

After such a long hiatus, I'm feeling rusty. ( I am not, however, feeling Russti, as that would be inappropriate).

I'm hung up on Llama's line (that you quoted) about knowing PMs were missing. I can't get past it. For one, he'd know there were missing PMs if he was on the baddie team, but (and this is a pretty big butt) I can't imagine Llama kowtowing to teammates who wanted to withhold using their power for the day. I know SVS has artfully and tactically used this maneuver, but that's not really his M.O. Let's say that Logan is a civ and didn't send in his power. 1) That's a big slip for him to make in-thread and 2) back to the issue of him being an uber-active player and not wanting to withhold action. He'll wake up to an onslaught tomorrow, but I hope he can delve more into this issue.

Random: Matt is being chatty. And I like that. Sometimes he is like that when he is being managed on a team (Lizzy has handled him quite well in the past, for instance), but I think it's more than he was called out (and Vomperdoodle) for not being as helpful as he could. Matt's a realllllly smart guy, so I'm hoping it's just him feeling comfortable enough to participate more. Mattmatt, I hope you don't take offense of any of that. I know it doesn't sound very polite to insinuate someone is being coached, but that's not precisely what I mean (V&A wouldn't mind being coached by L, if you know what they mean).

Notice the subtle implantation of the seed that I am not to be trusted. Not an accusation, just hints, almost subliminal remarks designed to undermine me in the eyes of others. Very clever.

Second,

I'm going to go ahead and commit to FZ. Plus, I don't want to spread the vote out further, especially when I'm (at least presently) feeling good about Kitty Kitty.

Why vote FZ? She doesn't ever say. It is a go-along-to-get-along vote. She missed the Day 1 vote and gave no real reason for her Day 2 vote. The only thing this vote proves is that she is probably not on FZ's team, but I think she is a baddie nevertheless.

Other people should read. I think you'll see what I see.

Just to clarify, Llama, you think Mongoose is on a team with FZ?

[thellama73]

Just to clarify, Llama, you think Mongoose is on a team with FZ?

No. I didn't mean to imply that, but I had to dash off that last post in a hurry because I was busy. I don't think the timing of her vote for FZ makes sense if they are on a team.

I think she is on the other bad team, or perhaps Smaug.

[juliets]

Mongoose, one of the things that would be helpful to me in lieu of llama's suspicions is to explain why you haven't really talked about suspects, even to the point of not giving a reason for your FZ vote.

[thellama73]

Mongoose, one of the things that would be helpful to me in lieu of llama's suspicions is to explain why you haven't really talked about suspects, even to the point of not giving a reason for your FZ vote.

Why can't it be in addition to my suspicions?

[Boogs]

On a side note advertising like INH, if you guys want to check out my Sailor Moon Mafia on Revolution mafia, I'd be grateful We have 7 spots left and Corsair and I will be hosting together. You know you wanna okay, back to chatty game talk

[Mongoose]

Mongoose, one of the things that would be helpful to me in lieu of llama's suspicions is to explain why you haven't really talked about suspects, even to the point of not giving a reason for your FZ vote.

Man, I thought I'd talked about Elohcin to death.

I didn't post much about FZ (I mean I did articulate why I was doing it - gut feelings that were luckily correct, etc) because it would be duplicative of what others had said about her.

I also talked about people that others suspected and stated why I was not suspecting them, which I think should still count as discussing suspects (e.g. K4J).

Hope that helps!

[nijuukyugou]

Won't make it back home in time to unblocked Internet before the poll ends (dang last two pages of posts are blocked here. Blast.), so I'm going with swimming across. Hope I don't drown

[Mongoose]

Dom - I lost you a bit in what you were wanting to ask me with the epic quote block -- can you maybe reword it a different way?

Did you mean what was I hoping to accomplish by making (or encouraging someone else to make) a comparative list?
If that is what you are asking, it's to drive home any Eloh suspicions I have (I posted about this a lot last night, but it was very late, not sure if you missed it). In essence, I like to be extra sure before I vote her because I feel she is so often misread by players. Further though, another reason I'm hesitant is because Epi's playstyle is ever-evolving. The only thing I really know about his playstyle is that he likes to mix it up more than a KitchenAid. So just because he has never used this as a tactic to um...let's say do something nefarious, doesn't mean he won't mix it on up and try it this time. He didn't get to be top FEB by not knowing how to run a good con (I hope that is a compliment, I sure mean it as one). In the end though, I think some compelling arguments are being made on both sides and I will continue to follow this saga as it unfolds.
And even though I do believe he is great at reading her, he could be wrong again.

[juliets]

Mongoose, one of the things that would be helpful to me in lieu of llama's suspicions is to explain why you haven't really talked about suspects, even to the point of not giving a reason for your FZ vote.

Why can't it be in addition to my suspicions?

Actually, I think I used the wrong word there. I meant to ask if she could speak to the suspicion that you had brought forward. I don't know what made me say in lieu of.

Mongoose, thanks for answering my question and yes i agree posts where you are discussing suspects that others have brought forward would count for me. It looks like I need to go back through your posts with that specifically in mind.

[Russtifinko]

Night 2 -- The Crossing

Most of the company who had brought along ropes chose to swing over the water to the other side.
"Cowabungaaaa!" shouted BWT. "Wheeee!" squealed Turnip Head in delight. They landed each in turn, gasping and laughing on the other side.

Others of the company tried to find another way across. They left the path, and were glad to find a spot just a short distance away where the water was shallower. It rushed around a row of stones laid in a line. They were able to use these as stepping stones.
When they got to the other side, they scoured the ground for signs of the path. They saw nothing, but then, off to the right, they heard the giggles of their companions. Picking their way carefully through the underbrush, they eventually came back to the path.

A few of the group, judging the current not too swift, swam, holding their packs above their heads. The river was indeed placid: perhaps too placid. As they reached the halfway point, they began to feel a weight in their limbs and their minds. Their strokes grew ever slower, and their eyelids drooped. They did reach the other side, but when they did, all four were fast asleep! Lizzy had to be dragged from the river, snoring, by helpful hands.

"What wizardry is this?" cried Boogs. "That cannot be natural!" "Beorn did warn us about the water," responded DisgruntledPorcupine. "It must be enchanted with some dark magic." They tried to wake the sleeping forms, to no avail.

With nothing else to, and worn from their journey, the entire company slept that night. It was then that the goblins saw a chance to make their move.

When the sun rose, most of the company woke up, rubbing their eyes and stretching their limbs. There were a few exceptions. The swimmers could still not be roused, and Kylemii was doomed to sleep forever, because his throat had been cut.

The group, not knowing what else to do, buried him by the path and said a few words. They then continued on their way, as they knew they must, carrying those who had swum in the river on their backs. The light shining through the trees that morning was still bright, but to the group, it seemed a few shades darker than it had before.

Kylemii has been slain by the Goblins of Moria.

[Marmot]

This game is getting odder. Sorry to see you go Kyle.

I wonder what the sleepers are capable of now.

[A Person]

i just remembered to vote but the poll's over

[Marmot]

i just remembered to vote but the poll's over

[fingersplints]

ripiywg Kyle