Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Soneji]

@Jay in regards to the sig lynch: I would say Syndicate regulars with their familiarity with sig mislynches come off looking the worst in general, yourself and Golden in particular as starters of that wagon. I can't really agree that "Are there any good reasons not to lynch sig" is a good approach, "Are there any good reasons we should lynch sig over Wilgy, Sorcha, Dfaraday, Eloh" would be a considerably better one.

@Sloonei on Golden : I would say that talking about ones scum meta as a response to suspicion is generally something mafia do more than town. Especially when one is touting themselves as too careful/skilled to scumslip in certain ways, it's a method of intimidation. Golden going into his scum meta there just felt straight unnecessary.

Later Golden gives his opinion on whose more likely to have killed Nacho then dismisses that info as something he doesn't believe as worthwhile. Why even remark on it if you don't think it is a viable method of scumhunting? Since he agreed with both Jay and Jack on their NK analysis, then dismissed the info as useful, it comes off as buddying mixed with fence-sitting.


Still reading up on phone.

[speedchuck]

Honestly not sure what sort of information to get out of Wigly's alignment reveal. SL, did you gain anything from your secret knowledge while it was secret?

While Wigly was a good vig target, they weren't a great target for generating reads. I could see town or scum reacting to townWigly in the same way.

[Sloonei]

Honestly not sure what sort of information to get out of Wigly's alignment reveal. SL, did you gain anything from your secret knowledge while it was secret?

While Wigly was a good vig target, they weren't a great target for generating reads. I could see town or scum reacting to townWigly in the same way.

I forget, so remind me if this is the case: are you a member of the community sprityo has adapted this game from? If so, what can you tell us about a role like the one SL is claiming? Is it something we should accept as a town/civ roleclaim?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Gimme a read, Speedy. Or better yet, a rainbow. You've been fence sitting a lot lately and I don't like the way that goes with your fishing.

You want Silver to claim more but you "tentatively" think he's town. You want to know about Wigly but you think he's town. You "didn't hate" INH for a lynch. You picked out me, JJJ, Golden and Straw but didn't take a stance. You asked us to evaluate each other and didn't weigh in. You supported Dizzy while holding your hands up like "but he could be scum." You have no opinion on Marmot. You had "no issues" with punching Sig, Wigly, Eloh or Sorsha but opposed switching to anyone else.

You did an okay ISO on Scotty yesterday and have expressed some confidence in Quin, LC and Silver (yesterday).

I'd also like to know what you would gain from Wigly's power, standard or wacky. His alignment is far more useful to the town, imo, and you don't have much of an opinion on that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Punching? ISO hates the word "lynching" I think.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*facepalm*

IOS.

[insertnamehere]

DYSLEXICON'S EXTENSIVE LEXICON
an ISO in two parts

PART 1: EVERYTHING BUT THE 'SLIP'

Spoiler: show

I already know that there's a difference between our perceptions of what Sorsha was saying, but I'll explain anyway.

1. I think Sorsha's post about giving the map to a woman was entirely fluff. Not serious. A gimmick that is only saying 'We are women, so give it to us.' Not 'these girls and I are civ, so give it to us.'
2. Confirming civ-reads doesn't fit, because the post itself was a gimmick.

I agree with this. JJJ's way of making it a thing is:

---

There's too many players to keep track of. Please hurry up and die. I don't really have reads cause aintnobodygottimeforethat.
But:

Lynch: JJJ

Dys' first "REAL" post of the game comes via an agreement with Quin that 3J's suspicion of Sorsha's girl power support of woman receiving the map is, itself, suspicious. He casually throws a vote his way, in the manner reserved for a early day lark or mayhaps a distancing attempt.

After this comes the whole "slip" fracas, which I'll analyze in a separate post.

Spoiler: show

Five scum lolslip. I see people are really jumping on it, "great catch" . I'm surprised so many seems to take it seriously, but then I'm used to players being used to play with me. Hopefully some reactions stands out. I'm not dumb enough to slip for real in that way. It's a rather classic way of fake slipping. Did the same thing in one of my recent town games on my home site, same number even (HOW CONVENIENT).

I would absolutely love to see a link to this recent town game, ideally the same post. Please, please, please give me that before you depart for the night.

I didn't have three scum reads. I have none. Hopefully this changes with me reading the game. \o/

Golden isn't a scum read?

Bah. Let me get my computer then. Y ppl be so serious

But since it's you <3

No, haven't really formed reads yet. Dunno. No more hard questions plz. o.o

Now he has no reads at all. Funny how he abandons the 3J suspicion once the slip clustermug occurs.

Spoiler: show

Somewhat casual observations

- Quin posts 2min after slip. Don't see much wrong with the response.

- Golden doesn't think I'm very good at mafia.

- Strawhenge flags it, but doesn't vote me.

- Nutella is impressed and joins the vote. Nothing wrong with this it feels like.

- Scotty joins vote, say "watch this just being an arbitrary number". I find this curious.

- Quin seems pleased with himself.

- JJJ warns that I shouldn't be hammered (that would've been lol though). Still not calling me outright mafia.

- Silver indicates that it's "suspicious enough for a vote".

- Fredwood is the first one to suggest the post doesn't make sense. Unsure of mafia motive for doing this.

Some players comments later, but I'm unsure how much can be read into that as it's not as immediate.
I was going to ask why JJJ did not declare me scum or town, but didn't contest anyone who declared me sure or almost sure scum. But it was answered later with his long post. The fact that he held on to it is probably town indicative. Which is a shame, cause I really wanted to scum read JJJ for some reason. Also, the last time I played here the player I was suspicious towards in the start, but then grew to be everyone's top town read turned out to be scum, and I felt like crying. Fact is, the early JJJ stuff did not make me confident in him being town, but the later is better, I think. It would be very helpful if players who has meta on JJJ can tell me if this is very typical of his town play (as I understand nobody really knows what his scum play is like (?)).

Interesting how he differentiates between Quin and Nutella, whose Dys votes he finds normal and unsuspicious, and Scotty, whose Dys vote is "curious." Also, a full-scale switcheroo-nie on 3J, as you can see in his next post.

Spoiler: show

Actually, meta in general would help a bunch. But I don't have that, so let's just get on with the (early) impressions I have so far:

Townish:

Quin seems town enough to me. A bit stubborn, but that may just be a general thing (?).

I guess I should trust JJJ as I find no real reason to scum read him even if I want to for unknown raisins.

I think nutella seems alright. Has a rather innocent way of posting, and the need to understand reads town to me. Also think JJJ mentioned meta to back this up.

Slight towny:

I remember liking Long Con's post, but I can't really remember why. I think it was something about suspecting INH for having an unchronological reason to suspect someone (suspecting them before they do what could be potentially suspicious). This just seemed like a good level of thinking, so it's at least not lazy at least. I'm keeping in mind though that I thiiink he comes off a bit different than the last game I played here and iirc he was town in that? This is a long time ago, so don't remember it well. Still more town than not.

I don't know SilverLantern, but his attitude reads more town than scum to me. Also his awareness of being defensive and the "oh no, now I'll be seen as suspicious" read more like annoyed at maybe having to deal with that as town, cause he'd rather just be town read (?). Making guesses, or call it a gut read.

Um, I could mention Fred and Nacho as slight town leans, but there's really not much basis to it other than feels. Also pretty sure Sig's tone is a bit different from last game (again, ages ago), where he was scum.

Suspect:

I don't trust Marmot. I don't like the way he's emphasizing claiming map, as it reads more like trying to "be out there" or gain town cred for (possibly) faking that after other more present players had done the same. Doesn't really seem to care about my slip too much, seems uninterested.

I don't get good feels from Strawhenge. If someone has meta arguments here, I'd like to hear it, cause I saw people reading him town. He also flagged my post without voting me (but kept on shading me), without giving a reason for not voting. I also didn't like his first posts pointing out his own paranoia, and possible buddying of JJJ D0.

I agree that Sorsha read somewhat distant and not wanting to engage, which is possibly suspicious.

Scotty is a name I remember I was suspicious of, but I don't remember why.

---

I make gut reads/feels/impressions that is somewhat hard to explain. Especially when not knowing players well. Deal with it and take it for what it's worth. \o/

Now, 3J is one of his top town reads. (Wonder how much of that is tied to 3J's reaction to the "slip" kerfuffle.) Scum reads include Marmot, (for claiming?!? wat? he town-reads others for claiming, but I guess because Marmot ain't SUPATOWN, he's less trustworthy when HE does it.) Strawhenge, (who Dys kept replying to with blunt, one word 'no' answers, seemingly to antagonize the dude.) Sorsha, (with whom Dys agrees with 3J's case on.) and Scotty. ("curious Dys vote.")

Spoiler: show

Lynch: Marmot

I do not feel the warm fuzzies, MM. =/
Why do you feel so distant? Why do you feel so cold?

Now we have Dys' second D1 vote, which is based on even less than his first. Apparently, Marmot feels cold and distant, like an estranged lover or Antarctica. Nothing about this vote gives me the warm fuzzies.

Spoiler: show

Lynch: Marmot

I do not feel the warm fuzzies, MM. =/
Why do you feel so distant? Why do you feel so cold?

This is the sort of feeling you get when you say things like "There are five (5) scum to lynch, etc."

My question to you is: Why have you been so cold? Why have you been so distant?

Right. So my suspicion was articulated in a ditzy way, but it was serious.
My point was not that I was getting any type of feeling from you, rather that you seemed to not be very involved or interested in the slip.

Apparently not having an opinion on Dys' slip, and sitting back to observe other people's reactions is suspicious in Dys' eyes. Probably explains why his vote is currently on me.

These are, to put it frank, not great reasons to suspect people.

Spoiler: show

@Speed, I want you to explain your read on me. You're tip-toeing around it. You comment a lot on logic, strategy and meta discussions, but you don't give very much in terms of reads. You've stated several times that I'm null-ish to you and that I'm nok exactly looking good and that it's understanable that players want to lynch me etc. But at the same time you're arguing against what these players are saying. So in your own words, what is your read on me and why?

I'm very suspicious of you.

This where Dys' playstyle in this game becomes apparent. Aggrandizing flashy statements meant to provoke "discussion," and suspecting people who don't take the bait. MM, Speed, and myself all expressed neutrality about Dys, which quickly attracted heat from the man himself.

Dyslexicon doesn't want to lynch people who townread him, but doesn't want the heat that comes with going after people who scumread. So, he goes after the neutrals. Best case scenario, they then townread him and Dys can post that they "are making more sense now." Worst case scenario, he can frame their suspicions as a NO U, OMGUS.

It's a thing people do when they want to look like they're hunting and an extremely active player without doing any actual hunting.

Spoiler: show

I'm sure I had other things I wanted to comment on. Don't know when day ends, so going to throw out some cold reads:

Townish:
Nut, Straw, Fred

Slight town:
Silver, Quin. Golden, Jack

On the townier side of null:
Soneji, Scotty, Wilgy

Null:
Nacho

On the scummier side of null or sligh scum:
Sig, Dfray, JJJ

Scummish/suspects:
Marmot, INH, Speed, LC

Now 3J is "on the scummier side of null," while me, MM, Speed, and LC are the top suspects.

Jeez, Dys' 3J read is like a roller-coaster. This is the fourth or fifth change that's occurred over a single day!

Also interesting how Nacho is the only one listed as "null." Would be a good way to seperate yourself from an NK target.

Spoiler: show

Sig could have voted me though, or another counter wagon. Although that would've looked scum as hell.

Actually this only serves to emphasise the disparity between his words and the actual level of lynch threat he felt.

True.

Lynch Sig

Because I want to do what's in vogue.

Fish gonna swim, SUPATOWN gonna mislynch Sig. Well timed train jump on Dys' part, that allows him to continue his buddying up to the SUPATOWN coalition.

Spoiler: show

Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

*COUGH*buddying*COUGH*

Spoiler: show

I find that I have disagreed with a lot of the reasons for Quin's suspicions, but I'm still inclined to read them as town. Is this weird?

If I were to go on a limb, which I will, I'd say town:
Nut, Silver, Fred, JJJ, Golden, Quin and Scotty (very gut on the last one).

I did have town feels of JOH and Straw, but I feel these should be up for reviewing after this day (mostly by virtue of second hand info).

Would vote Marmot, INH and LC atm. Eloh, sure, but can be vigged. If she's town, another lurker lynch would suck.

Lynch INH

Wagon wagon.

And then there's this. Another example of booking a ticket on the SUPATOWN mislynch express.

______________________________________________________

IN SUMMATION:

Dys has been flakier than a rotten biscuit, and has been buddying up to the SUPATOWN group and following them on mislynch trains.

He attacks people who express neutral opinions on him and seemingly dislikes the concept of objectivity.

He hasn't really posted a concrete suspicion yet, and I fail to see any real genuine hunting attempts from him.

To put it in metaphorical terms, Dyslexicon is the equivalent of those little party poppers that you have to awkwardly pull a string to set off, which launch a bit of colored graffiti in an underwhelming spectacle, leaving everyone else to sweep up what remains.

Good taste in TV, but that's really all I can say to his credit.

[insertnamehere]

VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

[Golden]

Just popping in to say that's it from me, see you next phase. Let's get a scum!

[insertnamehere]

OK, its time I need to make a vote, so:

vote insertnamehere

If Eloh is lynched, so be it. The most persuasive reason I have against is she is an attractive vig target, and based on the flavour text around the Wilgy death I can see there being a vig in the game, so I'm willing to give that a chance to happen instead of wasting a lynch on someone who has no content to read.

INH, on the other hand, I'm used to him having strong views and declaring them, and I'm not seeing that. What's more, I don't feel as though he's engaged with criticisms, or where he has he's been simply dismissive, and I don't like the feel it gives me.

*WANTS STRONG OPINIONS*

*I POST A MASSIVE ACCUSATORY ISO*

Just popping in to say that's it from me, see you next phase. Let's get a scum!

[Golden]

Didn't see your iso, haven't read the thread.

[insertnamehere]

Didn't see your iso, haven't read the thread.

But I'm still where you're vote's going.

[Dyslexicon]

VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

I appreciate this.

Such RAWR.
Was probably not going to stick with my vote anyway, and I think this comes off more genuine than not.
One question though: Did you go through my whole ISO, as in, did you read every post?

Lynch LC

^If I'm to stick with early meta gut similar to my Sig gut.

[insertnamehere]

Didn't see your iso, haven't read the thread.

But I'm still where your vote's going.

*EBWOP

[Jackofhearts2005]

Liking playing with Dizzy. Hope they stick around. Reminds me of a realmser named ABF only if ABF gave a shit about actually playing the game.

[insertnamehere]

VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

I appreciate this.

Such RAWR.
Was probably not going to stick with my vote anyway, and I think this comes off more genuine than not.
One question though: Did you go through my whole ISO, as in, did you read every post?

Lynch LC

^If I'm to stick with early meta gut similar to my Sig gut.

I went through your ISO, yes, but I focused on the posts that weren't about the "slip" in order to assess you more accurately as a player instead of focusing on a single event.

Also, nice dodge.

Also, wasn't your Sig gut dead wrong?

[insertnamehere]

Liking playing with Dizzy. Hope they stick around. Reminds me of a realmser named ABF only if ABF gave a shit about actually playing the game.

I like playing with Dizzy too. I think I'll enjoy playing with him even more when he's town.

[Dyslexicon]

Liking playing with Dizzy. Hope they stick around. Reminds me of a realmser named ABF only if ABF gave a shit about actually playing the game.

Buddying!

But for real, thanks a lot! That's encouraging and a very nice thing of you to say out loud.
I definitely enjoy playing here - respectful, entertaining and it seem skilled players.^^

[Long Con]

VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

I appreciate this.

Such RAWR.
Was probably not going to stick with my vote anyway, and I think this comes off more genuine than not.
One question though: Did you go through my whole ISO, as in, did you read every post?

Lynch LC

^If I'm to stick with early meta gut similar to my Sig gut.

And you can look forward to similar results. Perhaps the Sig results pleased you?

[insertnamehere]

Dizzy, you aren't even considering responding to my ISO, are you?

Maybe you think if you ignore it, I'll just go away. Or maybe I'll be lynched because of my irritating flashing avatar, or some other equally idiotic reason.

The latter may happen, but the former sure isn't going to.

[Dyslexicon]

Liking playing with Dizzy. Hope they stick around. Reminds me of a realmser named ABF only if ABF gave a shit about actually playing the game.

I like playing with Dizzy too. I think I'll enjoy playing with him even more when he's town.

Your perception will lead to disappointment.



Because what you see - isn't always the truth.

[insertnamehere]

Parquet Courts song that best describes Dizzy right now.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy, you aren't even considering responding to my ISO, are you?

Maybe you think if you ignore it, I'll just go away. Or maybe I'll be lynched because of my irritating flashing avatar, or some other equally idiotic reason.

The latter may happen, but the former sure isn't going to.

I'll respond to what I remember that is easy to correct. My JJJ read has gone back and forth because of just that, it's gone back and forth a lot. So my progression on that I think can be followed in a lot of my posts, I think I've talked about it a lot. And I've kind of just landed on hoping town. I don't see what's problematic about that.

The reason I find Marmot more suspicious for claiming the map is that it happened after and imo in a weaker way than when JJJ and Golden did it. So it would be an easy way to do a perceived "pro-town thing" that other players are doing. I recall this exact argument being brought up by someone else (I think that time against Sig). I'm not sure the argument is very good, but it isn't taken from out of nowhere.

The other stuff reads like putting "scum subtitles" on my posts. And I don't feel compelled to answer that.

What SUPATOWN do you think I'm buddying? Golden, I presume? Who else?

Also, no, my initial Sig gut was not wrong. Because I said early that he felt different to me than last game I played here a year ago (where he was scum). I didn't stick to those guts, I forgot about the feeling, but JJJ brought it up in a post this day and yeah. I obviously didn't put much stock into that gut, but I think I will with LC.

[Sloonei]

Starting my mafia homework now. Don't mind me, I am miles behind the current action of the thread.

[Sloonei]

Users browsing this forum: Literally everyone.

jeez. Now would be a good time for a GTH exercise, if that's to be trusted. Hint hint.

[Dyslexicon]

INH, Your confirmation bias is unamusing and makes me less compelled to answer your case. I'm focusing on reading your intentions.

[Dyslexicon]

INH, In other words. Your whole post is formed as a conclusion that I'm scum. You won't be able to convince me that I'm scum, so it's not very easy or productive to answer that (haveing a "yes"/"no" argument), but I can try to clarify what I think you've mis-understood/construed (depending on your alignment).

[Dyslexicon]

Parquet Courts song that best describes Dizzy right now.

If I was interesting in dodging you, I could've just not posted.

[speedchuck]

Honestly not sure what sort of information to get out of Wigly's alignment reveal. SL, did you gain anything from your secret knowledge while it was secret?

While Wigly was a good vig target, they weren't a great target for generating reads. I could see town or scum reacting to townWigly in the same way.

I forget, so remind me if this is the case: are you a member of the community sprityo has adapted this game from? If so, what can you tell us about a role like the one SL is claiming? Is it something we should accept as a town/civ roleclaim?

I am.
Only janitor role I recall seeing was a mafia role. It worked slightly differently. They used it to hide my alignment when I was lynched, never got called on it, and steamrolled the game by calling me scum. (I get mislynched a lot where I come from). That was frozen hearts mafia. They had I think two days of calling me scum before I finally flipped.
But they didn't know what my role was. Not specifically. And they didn't kill me. Town did.

Never run into this particular thing before. Could be Civ, but with a drawback so that town isn't overpowered. Could be a mafia kill with anonymity as a special ability, which they're using for town credit. Or a third party deal.

Problem with it being Civ is just that it's a waste of a role. Feels like it's working out better for SL than anyone else, so I'm wary.

Gimme a read, Speedy. Or better yet, a rainbow. You've been fence sitting a lot lately and I don't like the way that goes with your fishing.
You want Silver to claim more but you "tentatively" think he's town. You want to know about Wigly but you think he's town. You "didn't hate" INH for a lynch. You picked out me, JJJ, Golden and Straw but didn't take a stance. You asked us to evaluate each other and didn't weigh in. You supported Dizzy while holding your hands up like "but he could be scum." You have no opinion on Marmot. You had "no issues" with punching Sig, Wigly, Eloh or Sorsha but opposed switching to anyone else.
You did an okay ISO on Scotty yesterday and have expressed some confidence in Quin, LC and Silver (yesterday).
I'd also like to know what you would gain from Wigly's power, standard or wacky. His alignment is far more useful to the town, imo, and you don't have much of an opinion on that.

I'll give you reads in my next post. As for your complaints, sentence by sentence.
1. Already explained that.
2. Already explained that, in the same as the previous, but sure, make it look like 2 problems.
3. Called INH a scumread of mine earlier today.
4. Not exactly the easiest issue to ferret out, though I'm keeping an eye on it.
5. Thanks for the evals, btw. <3
6. This is something I've explained four times already, to varying levels of acceptance.
7. I had opinions on Marmot. They were bad. They've been pacified by people who know him. If it weren't for their assurance, he'd be in my top three to lynch.
8. This is presumably a lie. I have not, in this game, at any point, opposed 'switching to anyone else'. This is blatantly trying to make me look bad with something that seems like an accusation, but isn't quite.
ISO is not a complaint, so I'll move on.
9. I have already explained my opinion on that. And somehow, you don't have an opinion on wigly being town either.

If you have that much issue with my content, and that much trouble with reading my reads and responses (without a rainbow, which I will get to), it seems like you should throw a vote at me instead of shade that you hope will stick. Here, I'll toss you some back. #sass

[nutella]

I find INH's ISO of Dys pretty intriguing, but mostly not for the reasons he intended.
Basically, under certain circumstances I could potentially consider Dys to be bad, and INH's case (though yes very confirmation bias-y) lays out some good reasons -- and if I were to think Dys was bad, I would think JJJ was probably his teammate.
But I don't really think that for now, it's just a potential situation that I would defer to if my current hypothesis is incorrect. For now, I think it is much more likely that Marmot is bad and INH is possibly his teammate. (And perhaps Speed as well for a couple reasons but I'm less confident about that.)

INH's ISO along with some other recent tidbits in the thread have firmed up some of my beliefs about the potential connections between players, and particularly that I could very much see INH as Marmot's scum buddy.

At this point I am highly in favor of a Marmot lynch, not only because he is my top suspect but because I think his flip will be very, VERY telling in regard to several other players. I am less confident in my suspicion of INH and it largely depends on whether MM is bad. I strongly believe lynching MM is by far the most productive thing we can do today.

Vote Lynch Metalmarsh89

[nutella]

Golden, if by some miracle you're still here and see this, if you trust me I very strongly recommend that you join me in voting for MM.

[speedchuck]

I gave 80% of this list, but it was spread over my posts today.

Fredwood
Golden
Nutella


Sloonei
Dyslexicon
Quin - I disagree a lot with Quin's reads. They don't seem like shade, though. D2 much higher than D1

Soneji
Silver Lantern
Strawhenge
JJJ

JackofHearts
LongCon

MM (marmot)
Scotty - My whole case from earlier. Also, when he responded, he said I was tunnelling, told me to ISO marmot. 1 post later, said marmot was town. Only read he gave was on INH.

insertnamehere - posted a huge thing against Dys, and I only agreed with one point on it. The rest looked like a scum filter over earnest attempts to help the town and one blunder. wasn't a huge fan beforehand, either.

The one point I did agree with on it is that Dizzy seems to go after people that considered him neutral. I don't really consider that scummy, but...

Dizzy has said like five times that they are suspicious of me, and haven't sent a vote or an explanation my way. Calling you out, Dizzybro. Put er up.

Might be voting INH in another few posts, or I might keep scotty or marmot. The culture here says not to throw your vote around every other post, so I won't.

[speedchuck]

Golden, if by some miracle you're still here and see this, if you trust me I very strongly recommend that you join me in voting for MM.

I'll join you <3

[Lynch MM]

[Dyslexicon]

Lynch: Marmot

Let's do this then.

@INH, Why did you go away when we were having such a kiki? =(

[Dyslexicon]

@Speed, You're giving me mixed feelings. I haven't voted you cause I've not considered you a favored lynch choise of mine.

[Elohcin]

I'm going to vote before I forget. I'm trusting the people...Dyslexicon.

I don't like change in my Mafia culture and this game is very different. So....you are right...this is me... Sorry, Sprit...I can't handle the newness on top of RL.

When you say 'trust the people', were there specific people that you trusted? Or were you going with the majority?

I don't fault you for either, just wanna see where your head is at.

Majority. Again, I'm sorry. My head just isn't in it. And I hate to do that to my fellow civs. Because I hate when people sign up for a game and don't play. But I like to see votes on the table. And I think after I found out that they wouldn't be that way, I kind-of checked out. I am so busy right now as well. I don't like to say this but I only signed up to get the game going. I only do that when I am asked over and over by a certain somebody. And y'all know I hate big games. I cannot keep up. The first day, there were like 7-8 pages in about 24 hours. I said, to help with this. I was going to try, but.... I know....I'm full of excuses.

[nutella]

Where's sprit I'd like a vote count but I'm lazy

[Jackofhearts2005]

Golden, if by some miracle you're still here and see this, if you trust me I very strongly recommend that you join me in voting for MM.

This is for Golden specifically? *eyebrow raise*

[Sloonei]

I've completed Assignment #1: ISO INH

I do not object to his paranoia about the map claimers on Day 1, though he stated it in much stronger terms than I would have. It is true that fake claimers run the risk of potentially diminishing the credibility of our true cartographer, and it's possible a baddie or two could seize the opportunity to misguide the town. I don't think this is an unreasonable thing to worry about. I think the concern he expresses here is believable:

I have no problem with people lying in order to protect the person with the actual map.

The part I have a problem with is fake-claimers taking votes away from the person with the REAL map, causing us to go places we don't want to go.

One thing that I did not like, though, was his loyalty to Metalmarsh in the whole map business, which seems like it may be spreading out into the game in general. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe INH had any serious reason to trust the Marmot on Day 0 when he voted to give him the map, but he seems to have continued to trust him with some reliance on this premise deeper into the game (and I don't just mean with regards to the map claims. I believe there was some soft Marmot defense in INH's Dizzy ISO). I'd like to hear more about that.

Much of INH's Day 1 was spent discussing the map claims and in self-defense. For another player, this much focus on defense might be a concern, but I've been sucked into the INH suspicion-deflector vortex before and I know it's not necessarily a scum trait of his. If someone suspects him for reasons he doesn't like, they're going to hear about it and that's fine.

Day 2 he's come out very very strong against Dyslexicon. I do not agree with everything INH has to say in his massive ISO. For instance, I never fault a player for changing their mind as Dyslexicon has done numerous times regarding Jay in this game, and I think a lot of Dyslexicon's stated suspicions are much more credible than INH seems to believe. But there are a number of fair points in there that I'm eager to see a response to.

While I do not agree with all of his case against Dyslexicon, I also think it looks believable and I like the contribution INH has made with that case. I've never seen a scum INH, but this looks like his usual town self so far. I would, however, like to hear some expanded thoughts from him. We know where he stands on Dizzy. What about Metalmarsh? What about Jay? What about Golden? He was an early suspect; what has become of that now?

[Long Con]

Golden actually left me in charge of trusting your gut, nutella. I'll place a vote for him until he gets back.

Vote Lynch Metalmarsh89

[nutella]

Golden, if by some miracle you're still here and see this, if you trust me I very strongly recommend that you join me in voting for MM.

This is for Golden specifically? *eyebrow raise*

Because he was leaving, and I think he trusts me and would go along with it. Sadly I think it's too late. But I am very glad others are joining me. I hope I'm right

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have no issue with any of those four lynches, though the idea of a Chinese Fire Drill scares me.

Dizzy, I'll give you full disclosure: I am 100% certain that you did not really slip, whether town or scum.
I also think that most of the townreads on you didn't come from that, but from towny play later in the day.
I have been defending the slip as being what you said it was: fake.

Now,
Your behavior right after the slip was questionable. After a bit, though, you stumbled in and got the scumhunting going.
All the while, I'm fighting back against votes that I consider misinformed and trying to avoid getting tied down as someone who is defending you as a person. I don't like defending. I do like picking apart misinformed lynches. You can defend yourself.

Since those arguments have ended, you've continued to improve questioning and giving of reads/helpful observations. I'd put you as light town, at the moment. This wasn't exactly what I was trying to argue either way earlier, though.

Does that clear things up? If not,

^Here's you saying you don't want to switch off that four person group, Speed.

Am I misinterpreting that? You said I was lying...

[nutella]

Oh yeah, voting in the direction poll before I forget. Going with southeast, mostly arbitrarily but also it has the most votes and from people I mostly trust (while northwest has two of my top suspects). also I live in the SE quadrant of Portland so it feels kinda homey even though that's not the region we'd be heading towards at all, but as I said I had reasons against nw

[Quin]

Have I been buddied by a bad marmot?

[speedchuck]

I have no issue with any of those four lynches, though the idea of a Chinese Fire Drill scares me.

^Here's you saying you don't want to switch off that four person group, Speed.

Am I misinterpreting that? You said I was lying...

Ah. I take that back.
No, you weren't intentionally lying.
Yes, you were misinterpreting it. The Chinese fire drill referred to switching off of SIG and onto another of those four people: sig, Elohcin, Sorsha/replacement, and DrWilgy. With the JJJ question in context, and as close to the end of the day as we were, I thought that was pretty clear. Just because I have no issue with the four lynches, doesn't mean I wasn't happy with others (though I'd have to look at my opinions at the time to tell you which ones). The CFD applied to those four, and to JJJ's question.

So I didn't want to switch in the four person group, in context.
You can still consider that scummy, if you want, though. I, being used to week-long cycles, am normally quite upset if there's no clear lynch by 5 hours till deadline. CFD in a 48 hour day is frightening.

[Sloonei]

Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:

A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.

Well...

I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

If Scotty earnestly believes that Dyslexicon slipped on Day 1, why is he also lamenting the problem that he can never tell who's bad on Day 1? If that was a slip, isn't it plain as day that Dyslexicon is bad?

In addition to this, none of the reads Scotty has shared all game long have been encouraging (I get time constraints, but I'm used to a civilian Scotty providing plenty of valuable insight whenever he can). His Day 1 Wilgy case amounted to "WIFOM", which is a hallmark of Wilgy's play and not alignment-indicative at all (admittedly, I have not read Wilgy's posts at all), and his reads today have likewise been uninspiring. "Elo is the most suspicious player here", because... she's said less than anyone else? This is not reflective of any analysis of the thread, but Scotty states it as a definitive suspicion and not him differing to a low-poster vote (she is "the most suspicious person here", not just a quiet person in his book). In that same post, I do not like the way he dismisses an apparently large case made by speedchuck (not pictured) by first praising him and then just saying "I'm not bad" and moving on to the next subject. Looks like an attempt to brush suspicion away by being a friendly fellow. I cannot tolerate a friendly Scotty.

I can vote for this version of Scotty. I don't disbelieve his claims of time constraints, but I feel like he can very easily be hiding behind that to excuse his lack of townie points otherwise.

[Sloonei]

oh I forgot.

unvote Golden

Vote Scotty.

[Sloonei]

@ sprityo: I notice my post history is not linked in the OP yet like everyone else's. Could you add that? I could do it myself but I'm not sure that would be approved of.

[Quin]

INH brings up an interesting point in that Dizzy had put Nacho down as her only null read. That seems like a rookie error, which she apparently is not, and given Dizzy's presence in the thread, I think it's likely she'd have spoken out against a Nacho kill for that specific reason.

I agree with INH for what he said about her fluctuating read on 3J. I'm not bothered by drops and rises of one or two tiers on a rainbow list, but to describe it as a roller coaster is correct. My interpretation of 3J's standing in the respective posts looks like this

1 A slight scum, for agreeing with me about the Sorsha discussion and voting 3J
2 Says he has no real scum-reads
3 A rainbow list where 3J is listed as his 2nd top town read. Justification is that he couldn't find anything suspicious about him
4 Slight scum, a cold read.

[Quin]

Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:

A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.

Well...

I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

If Scotty earnestly believes that Dyslexicon slipped on Day 1, why is he also lamenting the problem that he can never tell who's bad on Day 1? If that was a slip, isn't it plain as day that Dyslexicon is bad?

In addition to this, none of the reads Scotty has shared all game long have been encouraging (I get time constraints, but I'm used to a civilian Scotty providing plenty of valuable insight whenever he can). His Day 1 Wilgy case amounted to "WIFOM", which is a hallmark of Wilgy's play and not alignment-indicative at all (admittedly, I have not read Wilgy's posts at all), and his reads today have likewise been uninspiring. "Elo is the most suspicious player here", because... she's said less than anyone else? This is not reflective of any analysis of the thread, but Scotty states it as a definitive suspicion and not him differing to a low-poster vote (she is "the most suspicious person here", not just a quiet person in his book). In that same post, I do not like the way he dismisses an apparently large case made by speedchuck (not pictured) by first praising him and then just saying "I'm not bad" and moving on to the next subject. Looks like an attempt to brush suspicion away by being a friendly fellow. I cannot tolerate a friendly Scotty.

I can vote for this version of Scotty. I don't disbelieve his claims of time constraints, but I feel like he can very easily be hiding behind that to excuse his lack of townie points otherwise.

I don't see a contradiction in what you've highlighted, but I also don't like that he painted Eloh as the most suspicious person with her whole two posts.