[END] Bioshock Mafia

#1601

Dom wrote:ALSo,

On Bea

I think the case against her, at this point, is rather weak. It's based on one vote, that doesn't corroborate with the rest of the theory it is based upon, and the people going for her are forgetting about Bullz who actually fit all the criteria in the theory. I think the theory isn't as strong as I used to because Boo was civvie, although, Bullz is on my list for tomorrow though.

You say 'all the criteria' as if there were more criteria than "didn't vote BWT" and "name begins with B". I mean, I guess that's technically plural, but still that theory doesn't have a lot going for it tbh.

#1602

Could someone remind me of the case for Bullz? I don't remember it, besides the Day 2 vote, and just want to be reminded.

Happy birthday, Boomy! Apparently I don't have your cell # any more, otherwise I'd have texted. PM me with it when you get a chance!

#1603

Dom wrote:ALSo,

On Bea

I think the case against her, at this point, is rather weak. It's based on one vote, that doesn't corroborate with the rest of the theory it is based upon, and the people going for her are forgetting about Bullz who actually fit all the criteria in the theory. I think the theory isn't as strong as I used to because Boo was civvie, although, Bullz is on my list for tomorrow though.

The case against boats is based on "one post".

I wish we had truckloads of evidence to wallow in, but until that day comes I will be voting on what little there is.
I haven't forgotten about bullzeye, I just consider bea a marginally better suspect because she voted later.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the rest of the theory" - my theory has always been simply that one of those three was a baddie trying to save his teammate. No other criteria, no vast suppositions or hypotheses. Boo flipping civ doesn't affect the validity of the logic at all. I certainly never claimed to know that any particular character was bad, just that the odds were higher for those three. Unless you hav some very useful info to share, that's the best we can do at the moment, aye?

That said, bullzeye is almost as good a suspect as bea, from an evidence point of view, so go for it

Linki Russ: he was one of the late voters for aces that tied it up and almost saved bwt. Just not as late as bea.

#1604

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote:ALSo,

On Bea

I think the case against her, at this point, is rather weak. It's based on one vote, that doesn't corroborate with the rest of the theory it is based upon, and the people going for her are forgetting about Bullz who actually fit all the criteria in the theory. I think the theory isn't as strong as I used to because Boo was civvie, although, Bullz is on my list for tomorrow though.
The case against boats is based on "one post".

This is demonstrably false.

#1605

Russtifinko wrote:Could someone remind me of the case for Bullz? I don't remember it, besides the Day 2 vote, and just want to be reminded.

Happy birthday, Boomy! Apparently I don't have your cell # any more, otherwise I'd have texted. PM me with it when you get a chance!

Yes, please - I've not seen/recollected anything suspicious from him at all.

#1606

Hadn't realised I haven't posted for ages. That event just about took the desire to post out of me.

Anyway it is certain that Boatsdittoditto will now be lynched. Well barring vote manipultions I suppose. So where do I place my vote?

Bea is my strongest suspicion. It isn't just her vote, it is her posts. They don't ring true (as has been pointed out)
Boats..well I'm not too worried about him to be honest. Maybe he could read and post in 12 mins like DP says.
Bullz, another suspect, but this time based only on his vote. His posts haven't rung any alarm bells.
Zany. I simply don't know but he is not helpful.

Ach. I don't trust Bea. Her posts are off. They don't ring true.

Votes Bea

#1607

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Alright since Boats still isn't showing I guess I'll just vote him anyway since he's not really helping anything.

You were the person who that defended Boats in the first place. You said that you do what he did. That being, quickly skimming the posts and then posting your thoughts. I have lowered him in my suspicion due to your "evidence". What has made you disregard that and vote for him anyway?

#1608

Epignosis wrote: This is demonstrably false.

Not that I really care to argue that point (I do find the evidence against him non-negligible), but would you mind 'demonstrating' its falsity?

#1609

DAY 5

Who is a Parasite?

Poll runs till Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:48 pm

AceofSpaces
0
No votes

Ajira
0
No votes

bea
4
AceofSpaces (6), bea (8), Nevinera (9), Snow Dog (28) 14%

BoatsBoatsBoats
14
nutella (12), Ajira (13), Mongoose (14), Bullzeye (15), Flyin' High (16), Devin the Omniscient (17), Matahari (18), Epignosis (19),
DisgruntledPorcupine (21), Russtifinko (22), Dom (25), indiglo (26), DFaraday (27), G.O.B. (29) 48%

Boomslang
0
No votes

Bullzeye
0
No votes

Devin the Omniscient
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

DharmaHelper
0
No votes

DisgruntledPorcupine
0
No votes

Dom
0
No votes

Epignosis
0
No votes

Flyin' High
0
No votes

G.O.B.
0
No votes

Hedgeowl
0
No votes

indiglo
0
No votes

insertnamehere
0
No votes

Matahari
0
No votes

Mongoose
0
No votes

Nevinera
0
No votes

nutella
0
No votes

Russtifinko
0
No votes

Snow Dog
0
No votes

Spacedaisy
0
No votes

>SpaghettiEverywhere
1
Zany Dex (11) 3%

Zany Dex
4
>SpaghettiEverywhere (10), Boomslang (20), Hedgeowl (23), Spacedaisy (24) 14%

Vompatti (host, deadies, non-players)
6
MovingPictures07 (1), S~V~S (2), thellama73 (3), birdwithteeth11 (4), Lizzy (5), Vompatti (7) 21%
Total votes : 29

Missed the vote: DharmaHelper, insertnamehere

#1610

Day 5: BoBoBotox

Splicers gathered in a mob. "Let's get him!!!!!" They rushed to BoatsBoatsBoats's apartment and busted down the door. They stopped and saw BoatsBoatsBoats standing as still as can be, right in the middle of the living room. They circled around him and were surprised to see he failed to resist.

One of the Splicers walked up to him. Still BoatsBoatsBoats didn't make a single twitch. The Splicer stared at his face. "Is that... botox?"

The other Splicers looked at each other. Maybe it was not botox... but a decoy!!! They began to panic and several of them beat and shot BoatsBoatsBoats to death, whereas others flooded the apartment, looking for what they thought could instead be the real BoatsBoatsBoats.

After ransacking the place, they didn't find a trace of anyone else. The Splicer who walked up to him earlier shrugged. "What's with the botox?" They left the apartment absolutely devastated as they regrouped to decide whom should be their next victim.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audio Diary #17: Jasmine Jolene - Pregnancy

BoatsBoatsBoats has been lynched. He was Jasmine Jolene.

It is now Night 5. You have 23 hours to send in your night PMs.

#1611

Looks like we have our second individual who has missed two votes: insertnamehere. I suppose now it's his turn to suffer the public penance.

Just want to emphasize: This night will be 23 hours, not 24. Please note this! This is so that I can shift the time backwards a bit to a more convenient one. The night will end at 6:52PM EST.

#1612

I must say I am not totally surprised that he was a civ. I was swayed by DPs argument even if he himself wasn't. Seems you definitely can read back a few pages and post thoughts in 12 minutes.

QED!

#1613

ebwop

RIP Boats.

#1614

RIP Boats.

Honestly not the result I was expecting for you...I guess not having a day or night power makes one less inclined to participate especially when real life is getting in the way.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1615

...WTF howwwww

RIP boats sorry :\

#1616

Boats! Seriously!!! I'm starting to think we need to start from scratch in this game...

#1617

RIP Boats! Sad to see that you were in fact civ.

#1618

Flyin' High wrote:RIP Boats. Honestly not the result I was expecting for you...I guess not having a day or night power makes one less inclined to participate especially when real life is getting in the way.

Agreed - I hope RL starts going better for you, I really do. Hope to see you around again really soon.

#1619

Poop in a basket. No more civ deaths!

Anyway, in light of this recent development, I wonder if I/we need to reassess all our other high-ranking culpable candidates. How does this change the way you see bea (I never suspected her), Dex (I voted for him in the first vote but then starting sniffing in some of the Bs), Bullz (it was just the one voting idiosyncrasy, etc?

#1620

RIP, Boats. I thought we had one there. I also hope rl starts to go better for you.

Mongoose, to answer your question it doesn't change my opinions much. I never thought the cases on bea or Bullz were strong and I still don't. I do still suspect Dex, and I think participating but offering nothing useful is different than not participating.

It does make me feel a little less gung-ho about a G.O.B. lynch.

#1621

Russtifinko wrote:RIP, Boats. I thought we had one there. I also hope rl starts to go better for you.

Mongoose, to answer your question it doesn't change my opinions much. I never thought the cases on bea or Bullz were strong and I still don't. I do still suspect Dex, and I think participating but offering nothing useful is different than not participating.

It does make me feel a little less gung-ho about a G.O.B. lynch.

Ahh yes, I forgot about GOB. Why precisely does it make you less gung-ho about a GOB lynch when thinking about the ill result of today's vote? Maybe because GOB is just another newbie that's not very participatory but still legit civ?

#1622

Mongoose wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:RIP, Boats. I thought we had one there. I also hope rl starts to go better for you.

Mongoose, to answer your question it doesn't change my opinions much. I never thought the cases on bea or Bullz were strong and I still don't. I do still suspect Dex, and I think participating but offering nothing useful is different than not participating.

It does make me feel a little less gung-ho about a G.O.B. lynch.
Ahh yes, I forgot about GOB. Why precisely does it make you less gung-ho about a GOB lynch when thinking about the ill result of today's vote? Maybe because GOB is just another newbie that's not very participatory but still legit civ?

Leading questions? Gob voted again today. No post. I think gob has read enough now to know he has to say something from time to time. Even if its just hi and bye.

#1623

Ha, I didn't mean to sound leading; I just wanted to make sure it didn't sound perfunctory or terse since he was kind enough to respond.

Yes, even a drive-by post of "I'm alive, work's been killer, got to go make barbecue." I'd be more than satisfied with that.

#1624

Mongoose wrote:Ha, I didn't mean to sound leading; I just wanted to make sure it didn't sound perfunctory or terse since he was kind enough to respond.

Yes, even a drive-by post of "I'm alive, work's been killer, got to go make barbecue." I'd be more than satisfied with that.

Lol, I didn't mean to sound like such an awful bitch either

but when I'm rushing, I sound that way. I need to watch that closer!

I don't want to see GOB get by with the 'spaghetti gambit', not to be confused with the 'llama gambit'. I just love mafia terminology.

#1625

Haha me too, Mata, the terminology is great.

Yeah, Mongoose, I suppose really it has no bearing on the G.O.B. situation directly. It just makes me more wary of lynching absentees in general. I also don't want to see him get by on not participating and win if he's evil though, and I completely understand if others still want to vote him. I guess I'm undecided for now.

#1626

Blah! RIP Boats

Not the result I was expecting at all.

#1627

@ Russti - Thanks for the thoughts!

@ Matahari - No worries, you didn't come off badly at all!

@ All - You guys, I'm seriously going to crawl in a hole if we kill off any more civs. It huuurts. 4 hours ago, I would have told you I was gunning for a GOB vote (after we got the Boats vote done with), but I am majorly second-guessing.

#1628

Bullzeye wrote:
Dom wrote:ALSo,

On Bea

I think the case against her, at this point, is rather weak. It's based on one vote, that doesn't corroborate with the rest of the theory it is based upon, and the people going for her are forgetting about Bullz who actually fit all the criteria in the theory. I think the theory isn't as strong as I used to because Boo was civvie, although, Bullz is on my list for tomorrow though.
You say 'all the criteria' as if there were more criteria than "didn't vote BWT" and "name begins with B". I mean, I guess that's technically plural, but still that theory doesn't have a lot going for it tbh.

I can't remember the theory at this point, but it was based on a vote pattern, didn't vote BWT, did vote llama. Convenient that you forgot that.

Nevinera wrote: The case against boats is based on "one post".

I wish we had truckloads of evidence to wallow in, but until that day comes I will be voting on what little there is.
I haven't forgotten about bullzeye, I just consider bea a marginally better suspect because she voted later.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the rest of the theory" - my theory has always been simply that one of those three was a baddie trying to save his teammate. No other criteria, no vast suppositions or hypotheses. Boo flipping civ doesn't affect the validity of the logic at all. I certainly never claimed to know that any particular character was bad, just that the odds were higher for those three. Unless you hav some very useful info to share, that's the best we can do at the moment, aye?

That said, bullzeye is almost as good a suspect as bea, from an evidence point of view, so go for it

Linki Russ: he was one of the late voters for aces that tied it up and almost saved bwt. Just not as late as bea.

You, too, conveniently forgot the rest of the theory about Bullz that oriiginally had nothing to do with the letter B and everything to do with a vote pattern.

Snow Dog wrote:
DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Alright since Boats still isn't showing I guess I'll just vote him anyway since he's not really helping anything.
You were the person who that defended Boats in the first place. You said that you do what he did. That being, quickly skimming the posts and then posting your thoughts. I have lowered him in my suspicion due to your "evidence". What has made you disregard that and vote for him anyway?

Interesting catch on DP....

#1629

I ended up voting him because if he was civ he wasn't helping. I didn't really have anything much in the way of baddies so I decided to vote a person who wasn't around at all anyway.

It's more so I didn't have suspicions, so I'd rather give it a shot with someone who wasn't around than someone who was actually potentially helping the cause.

#1630

Mongoose wrote:Poop in a basket. No more civ deaths!

Anyway, in light of this recent development, I wonder if I/we need to reassess all our other high-ranking culpable candidates. How does this change the way you see bea (I never suspected her), Dex (I voted for him in the first vote but then starting sniffing in some of the Bs), Bullz (it was just the one voting idiosyncrasy, etc?

It does not change the 'way I see bea' at all. She and bullzeye are still the only people with any substantial objective evidence against them, and bea is a better suspect than any of the people we've lynched.

On a more *subjective* level, her defenses all intentionally call out the 'B is for Baddies' theory instead of answering the very real evidence that anybody takes seriously. Her response to bwt's death screamed over-the-top, and strongly resembles the reaction *I* had when bullzeye flipped civ in Thomas.

Here is how I look at this whole thing: one or maybe two of BWTs two allies would have tried to save him. That means that our odds of getting a baddie are higher when we lynch one of those people. It does *not* mean 'omg its definitely bea' any more than it meant 'holy crap its totally boo'. These civ deaths are unfortunate, but don't hurt the odds that bea is bad at all.

Lynching bea is more likely to get a baddie than lynching someone else. Until I hear a better case made (and 'better' means 'with better evidence' to me), I intend to continue voting for her.

#1631

EBWOP: 'when bullzeye flipped *baddie*', not 'civ'.

#1632

Dom wrote: I can't remember the theory at this point, but it was based on a vote pattern, didn't vote BWT, did vote llama. Convenient that you forgot that.

Okay so take away "name begins with B" and add in "voted Llama". Still only two criteria and a couple of crap votes don't make someone a baddie, civvies can and often do have bad instincts. I took specific issue with your post because you seem to be trying to imply that there's a lot of evidence piled against me rather than a couple of votes and their timing.

#1633

Dom wrote: You, too, conveniently forgot the rest of the theory about Bullz that oriiginally had nothing to do with the letter B and everything to do with a vote pattern.

I never thought or claimed that 'voting for llama' had any import on my suspicions.
That is backwards evidence - baddies have no particular reason to jump on a civ-lynching bandwagon other than 'lets just make sure he bites it'. In fact, they have some motivation *not* to when they think the wagon will roll without them, and that one was pretty clearly going to keep rolling.

The 'vote pattern' I have been basing my case against Bea and Bullz on was not a 'pattern', it was a *behavior* - they both voted for not-bwt late in the poll, tying up the vote in what may have been an attempt to save him.

Stop putting words in my mouth - they belonged to somebody else, and they don't taste right.

#1634

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:I ended up voting him because if he was civ he wasn't helping. I didn't really have anything much in the way of baddies so I decided to vote a person who wasn't around at all anyway.

It's more so I didn't have suspicions, so I'd rather give it a shot with someone who wasn't around than someone who was actually potentially helping the cause.

Not sure I really understand DP. You stood up for him and then you voted for him claiming that if he was a civ (Which according to your very own defense of him he could very well be...in fact you disputed the very foundation of the case on him.) he wasn't helping much. Sorry? I never actually see you helping much either.

This is a typical DP post.

That's it. Now not all your posts are as minimal of course but just pointing out that you aren't particularly helpful most of the time.

But, I don't know a baddie reason why you would defend him then purposefully vote for him so I'll put it down to your quirky nature.

#1635

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:I ended up voting him because if he was civ he wasn't helping. I didn't really have anything much in the way of baddies so I decided to vote a person who wasn't around at all anyway.

It's more so I didn't have suspicions, so I'd rather give it a shot with someone who wasn't around than someone who was actually potentially helping the cause.

So you voted for someone you believed to be civvie? And you had no other suspicions?
Not Bullz, Bea, Snow Dog, Me, Aces, Epig, or GOB on the list of some of the people who have been dicussed at some length? You suspected NONE of them? So you voted for someone who you felt was a CIVVIE

Wow. What the hell kind of game are you playing?

Bullzeye wrote:
Dom wrote: I can't remember the theory at this point, but it was based on a vote pattern, didn't vote BWT, did vote llama. Convenient that you forgot that.

Okay so take away "name begins with B" and add in "voted Llama". Still only two criteria and a couple of crap votes don't make someone a baddie, civvies can and often do have bad instincts. I took specific issue with your post because you seem to be trying to imply that there's a lot of evidence piled against me rather than a couple of votes and their timing.

While it doesn't make you bad, it can be a reason for suspicion. And it IS evidence. It isn't a ton of evidence, but my point was that people are, for some reason, taking DH's theory and applying it to Bea who didn't even fit the second part of his theory.

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote: You, too, conveniently forgot the rest of the theory about Bullz that oriiginally had nothing to do with the letter B and everything to do with a vote pattern.
I never thought or claimed that 'voting for llama' had any import on my suspicions.
That is backwards evidence - baddies have no particular reason to jump on a civ-lynching bandwagon other than 'lets just make sure he bites it'. In fact, they have some motivation *not* to when they think the wagon will roll without them, and that one was pretty clearly going to keep rolling.

The 'vote pattern' I have been basing my case against Bea and Bullz on was not a 'pattern', it was a *behavior* - they both voted for not-bwt late in the poll, tying up the vote in what may have been an attempt to save him.

Stop putting words in my mouth - they belonged to somebody else, and they don't taste right.

You're following a theory that said that. The whole point of the theory was the idea that maybe the baddies want to discredit Epig.

And as far as your 'behavior' goes, did Bullz not do the same thing?

#1636

Dom wrote:
Nevinera wrote: I never thought or claimed that 'voting for llama' had any import on my suspicions.
That is backwards evidence - baddies have no particular reason to jump on a civ-lynching bandwagon other than 'lets just make sure he bites it'. In fact, they have some motivation *not* to when they think the wagon will roll without them, and that one was pretty clearly going to keep rolling.

The 'vote pattern' I have been basing my case against Bea and Bullz on was not a 'pattern', it was a *behavior* - they both voted for not-bwt late in the poll, tying up the vote in what may have been an attempt to save him.

Stop putting words in my mouth - they belonged to somebody else, and they don't taste right.
You're following a theory that said that. The whole point of the theory was the idea that maybe the baddies want to discredit Epig.

And as far as your 'behavior' goes, did Bullz not do the same thing?

I am not 'following a theory' at all. I am observing reality and noticing indicative events.
And I couldn't care less about any theory like the one you appear to be describing, that ascribes complicated motives to the actors involved. I don't jump on bandwagons, and I don't just believe theories by other people because they sound plausible.

Yes, Bullz 'did the same thing', which is why I have *consistently* listed him second after Bea.
Did you not notice that I did so in the post you quoted?
Bea is a marginally better suspect because her swing vote came later, but only marginally.

#1637

Nev, your logic may be dead on, but you said that Bea never addressed the vote thing? She actually did address that a few times. People who have played a lot with her know that she does have a horrible schedule, and frequently has to do a vote on her break. I've never understood why she doesn't quit that job, because mafia is way more important.

Could she be lying? Possibly, I can't remember ever playing a game with her when she was a baddie so I have nothing to base it on. About her post sounding OTT, I think many of her posts sound that way, because she's such a sweetheart in rl. Could she have been pretending? Again, that's possible.

But I'm having trouble with being positive she's bad. I'm not convinced yet, although I don't think you're bad either. I just wanted you to understand the reason why I'm not convinced yet.

I'm also wondering if indiglo has explained yet what the 'plenty of other good reasons' for voting Bea are. I wonder if she just meant what you said in your post, or if there was something else and I missed it.

#1638

Matahari wrote:Nev, your logic may be dead on, but you said that Bea never addressed the vote thing? She actually did address that a few times. People who have played a lot with her know that she does have a horrible schedule, and frequently has to do a vote on her break. I've never understood why she doesn't quit that job, because mafia is way more important.

Could she be lying? Possibly, I can't remember ever playing a game with her when she was a baddie so I have nothing to base it on. About her post sounding OTT, I think many of her posts sound that way, because she's such a sweetheart in rl. Could she have been pretending? Again, that's possible.

But I'm having trouble with being positive she's bad. I'm not convinced yet, although I don't think you're bad either. I just wanted you to understand the reason why I'm not convinced yet.

I'm also wondering if indiglo has explained yet what the 'plenty of other good reasons' for voting Bea are. I wonder if she just meant what you said in your post, or if there was something else and I missed it.

#1639

Oops, must've done something wrong there. EBWOP:

Matahari wrote:Nev, your logic may be dead on, but you said that Bea never addressed the vote thing? She actually did address that a few times. People who have played a lot with her know that she does have a horrible schedule, and frequently has to do a vote on her break. I've never understood why she doesn't quit that job, because mafia is way more important.

Could she be lying? Possibly, I can't remember ever playing a game with her when she was a baddie so I have nothing to base it on. About her post sounding OTT, I think many of her posts sound that way, because she's such a sweetheart in rl. Could she have been pretending? Again, that's possible.

But I'm having trouble with being positive she's bad. I'm not convinced yet, although I don't think you're bad either. I just wanted you to understand the reason why I'm not convinced yet.

I'm also wondering if indiglo has explained yet what the 'plenty of other good reasons' for voting Bea are. I wonder if she just meant what you said in your post, or if there was something else and I missed it.

Oh, I'm not positive she's bad either! I don't often get to be 'positive' about things in mafia though. If I had to give odds, I'd put them around 60% (with no scientific justification). My point about the vote was not the timing, it was the relative timing - she put a vote on that balanced the scales at the right time for it to be someone trying to save bwt. That's not damning in itself, it's just enough to make her a better candidate than anyone else right now.

And I didn't mean to imply that she never addressed the vote evidence. She just never brought anything substantive to the table to oppose the logic. Not that I can think of anything she could reasonably bring for many of the possible roles.

The effective approach to getting me to vote somewhere else would actually be to find objective evidence against somebody else that I missed. I don't do much pattern analysis or timestamp checking, but I do find those types of arguments to be compelling when they don't ascribe complex motives.

The 'plenty of other good reasons' to vote for Bea are all subjective opinions about her posting style and arguments. I don't put much weight on those personally.

#1640

Well, I'm glad that there are players who rely on logic without bending it to fit their agenda. I need the math and logic stuff pointed out to me, because I'm an airhead. So thank you for sticking to the facts, it helps me to see beyond the impressions I get on people.

It might be a good idea for me to do some rereading today in this game too, because I don't feel very grounded in either game I'm in.

#1641

The only thing I'm positive about is that.....rocks should fall and everyone should die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1642

I'm sorry. I fail at everything. Alex, would you be so kind as to fix that for me when you get a chance?

#1643

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote:
Nevinera wrote: I never thought or claimed that 'voting for llama' had any import on my suspicions.
That is backwards evidence - baddies have no particular reason to jump on a civ-lynching bandwagon other than 'lets just make sure he bites it'. In fact, they have some motivation *not* to when they think the wagon will roll without them, and that one was pretty clearly going to keep rolling.

The 'vote pattern' I have been basing my case against Bea and Bullz on was not a 'pattern', it was a *behavior* - they both voted for not-bwt late in the poll, tying up the vote in what may have been an attempt to save him.

Stop putting words in my mouth - they belonged to somebody else, and they don't taste right.
You're following a theory that said that. The whole point of the theory was the idea that maybe the baddies want to discredit Epig.

And as far as your 'behavior' goes, did Bullz not do the same thing?
I am not 'following a theory' at all. I am observing reality and noticing indicative events.
And I couldn't care less about any theory like the one you appear to be describing, that ascribes complicated motives to the actors involved. I don't jump on bandwagons, and I don't just believe theories by other people because they sound plausible.

Yes, Bullz 'did the same thing', which is why I have *consistently* listed him second after Bea.
Did you not notice that I did so in the post you quoted?
Bea is a marginally better suspect because her swing vote came later, but only marginally.

It doesn't seem very marginal to me, and that's my point.

#1644

Dom wrote: It doesn't seem very marginal to me, and that's my point.

You have not yet directly *expressed* your point.

I think you are saying that you believe bullz to be a much worse suspect, because he did not vote llama when he could have.
I don't buy that logic, for the reasons I've described already today:

a) voting for a civ when the bandwagon is already clearly going to take them down is an obviously bad move from a baddies perspective.
b) motivations like "to make Epi look bad" are not supportable - motivations of that complexity can be ascribed to literally any action, and are seldom correct.

If I'm misunderstanding your position or your reasoning, please clarify directly,
instead of making references to the positions you assume others to already have.

#1645

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote: It doesn't seem very marginal to me, and that's my point.
You have not yet directly *expressed* your point.

I think you are saying that you believe bullz to be a much worse suspect, because he did not vote llama when he could have.
I don't buy that logic, for the reasons I've described already today:

a) voting for a civ when the bandwagon is already clearly going to take them down is an obviously bad move from a baddies perspective.
b) motivations like "to make Epi look bad" are not supportable - motivations of that complexity can be ascribed to literally any action, and are seldom correct.

If I'm misunderstanding your position or your reasoning, please clarify directly,
instead of making references to the positions you assume others to already have.

What I'm doing is really asking you why Bullz<Bea...It just seems to be you have something against Bea ESPECIALLLY

#1646

Dom wrote: What I'm doing is really asking you why Bullz<Bea...It just seems to be you have something against Bea ESPECIALLLY

And I have answered that question half a dozen times, including once in direct response to you.
I've picked Bea over Bullz because she was later, but only marginally so, as I've been saying this *whole* time.

'Marginally' basically means 'barely'. I think Bea is a slightly better lynch target because she put her vote in later in the poll than did Bullz, and I don't think that matters a *ton*, just a little.

I do not think Bea is bad and Bullz is good. I do not think that Bea is a way better suspect than Bullz. I think bullz is almost as good a lynch target. I think Bea and bullz have similar evidence against them. I think that bea is slightly better than Bullz.

Was that clear enough?

#1647

Matahari wrote: I'm also wondering if indiglo has explained yet what the 'plenty of other good reasons' for voting Bea are. I wonder if she just meant what you said in your post, or if there was something else and I missed it.

That may have been the question I saw the other day and didn't have time to elaborate on. Nev just explained (pretty succinctly, I might add) the things I'm considering about Bea. I can go back over my posts and find a few to quote too - there were a couple really good points made about Bea during the posting contest madness. You're right though, Bea is a sweetie. I will never forget, however, the way she tugged on my heart strings during a mafia game (by talking about MY sweetie) and pulled the wool over my eyes. She CAN be quite convincing with her "sweet Bea" routine when she needs to be.

Am I convinced she's bad? Nope. I'm not certain of anything in this game, tbh. But do I see it as a possibility? Definitely.

I've noticed a handful of folks sticking up for (albeit subtly and carefully) Bea lately though. So that's something to analyze - because it could be for good reasons or for not-so-good reasons.

Still catching up here...

#1648

Quoted again for Mata...

Just to summarize:

1) a lightning fast flip flop on Epi (she was planning to vote him the next day, then dropped that when the lynch went to a baddie and began praising him) NOTE: I don't know that the "well crap" comment can really be judged, so I'm focusing more on the quick flip flop there.

2) deflecting onto a newb... when my past experience with Bea is that she's usually quite understanding and helpful to new players

Any thoughts about either of these 2 points?

indiglo wrote:(Quotes snipped for space.)

Epignosis wrote: The convincing thing regarding bea is that late vote on AceofSpaces.

Upon going back through bea's post, this stuck out at me:

bea wrote:I'm going with Aces I do agree though that epi is likely a good place to look next day cycle.
And this:

bea wrote:well crap. I either chose wrong or we were lucky and there were two baddies in that mix. I do have to say, David had me fooled.

well done epi for not letting up on his gut feeling. As rusti asked, I wouldn't mind knowing if there was anything besides gut that kept you going on.

llama - I've got no problems with you looking my way. I'm a civ this time round. If there's anything specific I can address, I'd be happy to.
I think we've brought this post up before. It strikes me as something a birdwithteeth teammate might just say. But this sticks out to me:

"Well crap" is not something a civilian says when a bad guy gets his comeuppance. That's just not the reaction one has, especially if there's a possibility that "there were two baddies in that mix."

45

Good points there on Bea. Did a quick flip flop on you too, Epi. I know that opinions on players change throughout the course of a game, but that one is especially obvious and strange.

AceofSpaces wrote:
bea wrote: And you know who's gotten quiet again after we gave him a pass? gob. Not one thing this whole period. And I'm guessing now that I've mentioned it, there will be more "oh, I got busy and now I am trying to do the best I can." - honestly, I was tweeked by him "playing the noob card" as soon as I mentioned it as an option. And I gave him the pass and now it's time to start playing the game.

I'll go with my fellow civs - if we want to lynch boo, I'm cool with that, but for one second don't think my eyes aren't all over gob. I'll throw votes his way in a heartbeat if he doesn't start playing the game like he says he was going to.
Speaking of Bea. This post immediately caught my eye. She points to GOB, a relatively quiet player. Now, while I don't like quiet players this late in the game ( no one point out my record in He-Man...) as I understand it GOB is a new player. I'm sympathetic to new players. It's easy to be intimidated by this game, especially with how fast the post have been coming in the past day.

To me, she seems to be trying to deflect attention to an easy target.

15
More good points on Bea. Isn't GOB brand new to mafia too, or did I just assume that because I've not seen him around before? And I notice "this late in the game"?? Isn't it like, Day 4? Now if it were Day 8, that's late in the game, but for someone who may be brand new to mafia we've only had 3 complete lynch cycles yet. So I think that is a really good point.

#1649

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote: What I'm doing is really asking you why Bullz<Bea...It just seems to be you have something against Bea ESPECIALLLY
And I have answered that question half a dozen times, including once in direct response to you.
I've picked Bea over Bullz because she was later, but only marginally so, as I've been saying this *whole* time.

'Marginally' basically means 'barely'. I think Bea is a slightly better lynch target because she put her vote in later in the poll than did Bullz, and I don't think that matters a *ton*, just a little.

I do not think Bea is bad and Bullz is good. I do not think that Bea is a way better suspect than Bullz. I think bullz is almost as good a lynch target. I think Bea and bullz have similar evidence against them. I think that bea is slightly better than Bullz.

Was that clear enough?

I understand, but I'm not really seeing it the way you are. And I am going to move on now.

#1650

Night 5: An Evening with Sander Cohen

"You're almost there. The sphere to Ryan is on up ahead." Jack walked forward.

"Ryan's handed the keys to Fort Frolic over to a guy named Sander Cohen. Cohen's an artist, says some. He's a Section Eight, says I. I've seen all kinds of cutthroats, freaks, and hard cases in my life, but..." Atlas's voice is starting to be drowned out by "Rise, Rapture, Rise". "...Cohen, he's a real lunatic, a dyed-in-the-wool psychopath..."

Atlas could no longer be heard. The music stopped. Jack approached the bathysphere and it sank to the ground. A giant bunny mask rose up the wall towards the ceiling and purple curtains surrounded the scenery, accompanied by suspended ballerina dancers. Jack wondered what the hell was going on.

"Ah, that's better. Atlas... Ryan... Atlas... Ryan... duh duh duh, duh duh duh. Time was you could get something decent on the radio. The artist has a duty to seduce the ear and delight the spirit, so say goodbye to those two blowhards, and hello to an evening with Sander Cohen!"

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Mongoose was sitting on a bar stool in Eve's Garden. She attempted to make conversation with her comrade, obviously Spliced up.

"So do you like movies?? I love them! What's your favorite movie?"

The Splicer didn't respond, but it didn't budge Mongoose's friendly enthusiasm. "My favorite is..."

Before she could even continue, the Splicer had enough. It walked away. "Oh, okay... see you later!" Not much sooner did an unidentified assailant walk up behind Mongoose. They snapped their finger and set Mongoose ablaze. Startled and instantaneously burning, Mongoose freaked out. She started running around in circles, screaming. Eventually, she burned to death, her corpse disfigured beyond recognition.

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Jack had no choice but to turn around and appease the artist.

"Now... I haven't seen a sign of real life down here in months. Let's see if you're just another Johnny-come-lately, or maybe something more delicious." Suddenly, Splicer after Splicer came after Jack, and he picked them all off one by one, making it look easy.

"Ohhhh, I can smell the malt vinegar in this one. I've waited so long for something tasty to come to this little burg, but all that pass are yokels and rubes... Where are my manners? Come in, come in! Sander Cohen awaits you, at the Fleet Hall!"

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Audio Diary #18: Sander Cohen – “Musical Insult”
Audio Diary #19: Sander Cohen – “The Wild Bunny”
Audio Diary #20: Sander Cohen – “The Doubters”

Mongoose has been incinerated!

It is now Day 6. You have 48 hours to find a parasite.

You and Bioshock: Which have you played and would you be interested in my upcoming sequel?