[END] Bioshock Mafia

#1641

The only thing I'm positive about is that.....rocks should fall and everyone should die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1642

I'm sorry. I fail at everything. Alex, would you be so kind as to fix that for me when you get a chance?

#1643

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote:
Nevinera wrote: I never thought or claimed that 'voting for llama' had any import on my suspicions.
That is backwards evidence - baddies have no particular reason to jump on a civ-lynching bandwagon other than 'lets just make sure he bites it'. In fact, they have some motivation *not* to when they think the wagon will roll without them, and that one was pretty clearly going to keep rolling.

The 'vote pattern' I have been basing my case against Bea and Bullz on was not a 'pattern', it was a *behavior* - they both voted for not-bwt late in the poll, tying up the vote in what may have been an attempt to save him.

Stop putting words in my mouth - they belonged to somebody else, and they don't taste right.
You're following a theory that said that. The whole point of the theory was the idea that maybe the baddies want to discredit Epig.

And as far as your 'behavior' goes, did Bullz not do the same thing?
I am not 'following a theory' at all. I am observing reality and noticing indicative events.
And I couldn't care less about any theory like the one you appear to be describing, that ascribes complicated motives to the actors involved. I don't jump on bandwagons, and I don't just believe theories by other people because they sound plausible.

Yes, Bullz 'did the same thing', which is why I have *consistently* listed him second after Bea.
Did you not notice that I did so in the post you quoted?
Bea is a marginally better suspect because her swing vote came later, but only marginally.

It doesn't seem very marginal to me, and that's my point.

#1644

Dom wrote: It doesn't seem very marginal to me, and that's my point.

You have not yet directly *expressed* your point.

I think you are saying that you believe bullz to be a much worse suspect, because he did not vote llama when he could have.
I don't buy that logic, for the reasons I've described already today:

a) voting for a civ when the bandwagon is already clearly going to take them down is an obviously bad move from a baddies perspective.
b) motivations like "to make Epi look bad" are not supportable - motivations of that complexity can be ascribed to literally any action, and are seldom correct.

If I'm misunderstanding your position or your reasoning, please clarify directly,
instead of making references to the positions you assume others to already have.

#1645

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote: It doesn't seem very marginal to me, and that's my point.
You have not yet directly *expressed* your point.

I think you are saying that you believe bullz to be a much worse suspect, because he did not vote llama when he could have.
I don't buy that logic, for the reasons I've described already today:

a) voting for a civ when the bandwagon is already clearly going to take them down is an obviously bad move from a baddies perspective.
b) motivations like "to make Epi look bad" are not supportable - motivations of that complexity can be ascribed to literally any action, and are seldom correct.

If I'm misunderstanding your position or your reasoning, please clarify directly,
instead of making references to the positions you assume others to already have.

What I'm doing is really asking you why Bullz<Bea...It just seems to be you have something against Bea ESPECIALLLY

#1646

Dom wrote: What I'm doing is really asking you why Bullz<Bea...It just seems to be you have something against Bea ESPECIALLLY

And I have answered that question half a dozen times, including once in direct response to you.
I've picked Bea over Bullz because she was later, but only marginally so, as I've been saying this *whole* time.

'Marginally' basically means 'barely'. I think Bea is a slightly better lynch target because she put her vote in later in the poll than did Bullz, and I don't think that matters a *ton*, just a little.

I do not think Bea is bad and Bullz is good. I do not think that Bea is a way better suspect than Bullz. I think bullz is almost as good a lynch target. I think Bea and bullz have similar evidence against them. I think that bea is slightly better than Bullz.

Was that clear enough?

#1647

Matahari wrote: I'm also wondering if indiglo has explained yet what the 'plenty of other good reasons' for voting Bea are. I wonder if she just meant what you said in your post, or if there was something else and I missed it.

That may have been the question I saw the other day and didn't have time to elaborate on. Nev just explained (pretty succinctly, I might add) the things I'm considering about Bea. I can go back over my posts and find a few to quote too - there were a couple really good points made about Bea during the posting contest madness. You're right though, Bea is a sweetie. I will never forget, however, the way she tugged on my heart strings during a mafia game (by talking about MY sweetie) and pulled the wool over my eyes. She CAN be quite convincing with her "sweet Bea" routine when she needs to be.

Am I convinced she's bad? Nope. I'm not certain of anything in this game, tbh. But do I see it as a possibility? Definitely.

I've noticed a handful of folks sticking up for (albeit subtly and carefully) Bea lately though. So that's something to analyze - because it could be for good reasons or for not-so-good reasons.

Still catching up here...

#1648

Quoted again for Mata...

Just to summarize:

1) a lightning fast flip flop on Epi (she was planning to vote him the next day, then dropped that when the lynch went to a baddie and began praising him) NOTE: I don't know that the "well crap" comment can really be judged, so I'm focusing more on the quick flip flop there.

2) deflecting onto a newb... when my past experience with Bea is that she's usually quite understanding and helpful to new players

Any thoughts about either of these 2 points?

indiglo wrote:(Quotes snipped for space.)

Epignosis wrote: The convincing thing regarding bea is that late vote on AceofSpaces.

Upon going back through bea's post, this stuck out at me:

bea wrote:I'm going with Aces I do agree though that epi is likely a good place to look next day cycle.
And this:

bea wrote:well crap. I either chose wrong or we were lucky and there were two baddies in that mix. I do have to say, David had me fooled.

well done epi for not letting up on his gut feeling. As rusti asked, I wouldn't mind knowing if there was anything besides gut that kept you going on.

llama - I've got no problems with you looking my way. I'm a civ this time round. If there's anything specific I can address, I'd be happy to.
I think we've brought this post up before. It strikes me as something a birdwithteeth teammate might just say. But this sticks out to me:

"Well crap" is not something a civilian says when a bad guy gets his comeuppance. That's just not the reaction one has, especially if there's a possibility that "there were two baddies in that mix."

45

Good points there on Bea. Did a quick flip flop on you too, Epi. I know that opinions on players change throughout the course of a game, but that one is especially obvious and strange.

AceofSpaces wrote:
bea wrote: And you know who's gotten quiet again after we gave him a pass? gob. Not one thing this whole period. And I'm guessing now that I've mentioned it, there will be more "oh, I got busy and now I am trying to do the best I can." - honestly, I was tweeked by him "playing the noob card" as soon as I mentioned it as an option. And I gave him the pass and now it's time to start playing the game.

I'll go with my fellow civs - if we want to lynch boo, I'm cool with that, but for one second don't think my eyes aren't all over gob. I'll throw votes his way in a heartbeat if he doesn't start playing the game like he says he was going to.
Speaking of Bea. This post immediately caught my eye. She points to GOB, a relatively quiet player. Now, while I don't like quiet players this late in the game ( no one point out my record in He-Man...) as I understand it GOB is a new player. I'm sympathetic to new players. It's easy to be intimidated by this game, especially with how fast the post have been coming in the past day.

To me, she seems to be trying to deflect attention to an easy target.

15
More good points on Bea. Isn't GOB brand new to mafia too, or did I just assume that because I've not seen him around before? And I notice "this late in the game"?? Isn't it like, Day 4? Now if it were Day 8, that's late in the game, but for someone who may be brand new to mafia we've only had 3 complete lynch cycles yet. So I think that is a really good point.

#1649

Nevinera wrote:
Dom wrote: What I'm doing is really asking you why Bullz<Bea...It just seems to be you have something against Bea ESPECIALLLY
And I have answered that question half a dozen times, including once in direct response to you.
I've picked Bea over Bullz because she was later, but only marginally so, as I've been saying this *whole* time.

'Marginally' basically means 'barely'. I think Bea is a slightly better lynch target because she put her vote in later in the poll than did Bullz, and I don't think that matters a *ton*, just a little.

I do not think Bea is bad and Bullz is good. I do not think that Bea is a way better suspect than Bullz. I think bullz is almost as good a lynch target. I think Bea and bullz have similar evidence against them. I think that bea is slightly better than Bullz.

Was that clear enough?

I understand, but I'm not really seeing it the way you are. And I am going to move on now.

#1650

Night 5: An Evening with Sander Cohen

"You're almost there. The sphere to Ryan is on up ahead." Jack walked forward.

"Ryan's handed the keys to Fort Frolic over to a guy named Sander Cohen. Cohen's an artist, says some. He's a Section Eight, says I. I've seen all kinds of cutthroats, freaks, and hard cases in my life, but..." Atlas's voice is starting to be drowned out by "Rise, Rapture, Rise". "...Cohen, he's a real lunatic, a dyed-in-the-wool psychopath..."

Atlas could no longer be heard. The music stopped. Jack approached the bathysphere and it sank to the ground. A giant bunny mask rose up the wall towards the ceiling and purple curtains surrounded the scenery, accompanied by suspended ballerina dancers. Jack wondered what the hell was going on.

"Ah, that's better. Atlas... Ryan... Atlas... Ryan... duh duh duh, duh duh duh. Time was you could get something decent on the radio. The artist has a duty to seduce the ear and delight the spirit, so say goodbye to those two blowhards, and hello to an evening with Sander Cohen!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mongoose was sitting on a bar stool in Eve's Garden. She attempted to make conversation with her comrade, obviously Spliced up.

"So do you like movies?? I love them! What's your favorite movie?"

The Splicer didn't respond, but it didn't budge Mongoose's friendly enthusiasm. "My favorite is..."

Before she could even continue, the Splicer had enough. It walked away. "Oh, okay... see you later!" Not much sooner did an unidentified assailant walk up behind Mongoose. They snapped their finger and set Mongoose ablaze. Startled and instantaneously burning, Mongoose freaked out. She started running around in circles, screaming. Eventually, she burned to death, her corpse disfigured beyond recognition.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jack had no choice but to turn around and appease the artist.

"Now... I haven't seen a sign of real life down here in months. Let's see if you're just another Johnny-come-lately, or maybe something more delicious." Suddenly, Splicer after Splicer came after Jack, and he picked them all off one by one, making it look easy.

"Ohhhh, I can smell the malt vinegar in this one. I've waited so long for something tasty to come to this little burg, but all that pass are yokels and rubes... Where are my manners? Come in, come in! Sander Cohen awaits you, at the Fleet Hall!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audio Diary #18: Sander Cohen – “Musical Insult”
Audio Diary #19: Sander Cohen – “The Wild Bunny”
Audio Diary #20: Sander Cohen – “The Doubters”

Mongoose has been incinerated!

It is now Day 6. You have 48 hours to find a parasite.

#1651

Nooo!! Mongoose! RIP. You will be sorely missed.

#1652

Mongoose! Such a cute little varmint too.

#1653

IYWG Mongoose! I didn't really have any suspicions of you

#1654

Devin the Omniscient wrote: IYWG Mongoose! I didn't really have any suspicions of you

I was pretty confident of his civility. It's a real shame, because there aren't many I can say that about :-/

#1655

Yeah... this game is getting really depressing

#1656

/\ Agreed. RIP(IYWG) Mongoose. someone obviously wasn't as convinced as Nev, since 'Goose was killed by a Splicer. I thought we started off so well 4 days ago, too.

Indiglo, thank you for posting the case on bea. I've been among those defending her (though I haven't been subtle about it), largely because no case besides her infamous vote had been posted. Now that there is one I'll consider it carefully. I think the flip-flop on Epi is a very good point, and I was unaware of her ability to use a 'sweet bea act', as I believe you described it.

#1657

Russtifinko wrote:/\ Agreed. RIP(IYWG) Mongoose. someone obviously wasn't as convinced as Nev, since 'Goose was killed by a Splicer. I thought we started off so well 4 days ago, too.

I don't think he was. He was incinerated after the splicer walked away.
Presumably killed by the plasmid?
Could still be a civ kill, but I don't think anybody's been poking at him in thread.

#1658

Good point. Well, RIPIYWG anyway Mongoose. I have no reason to think you weren't.

#1659

Thank you Indiglo- the part about the flip on epig does stand out. I've done all the reading I can do for one day, in both games I'm in, on an iPhone. (no computer at the moment, but I have ordered one) anyhow, words are running together. I'll reread Bea tomorrow, and post my thoughts on Bullzeye too.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1660

RIP Mongoose.

At this point I'm more inclined to vote for Bullzeye than Bea. I get part of the case on bea but I feel more strongly about the one on bullz.

#1661

RIP Mongoose!

Nevinera wrote:I don't think he was. He was incinerated after the splicer walked away.
Presumably killed by the plasmid?
Could still be a civ kill, but I don't think anybody's been poking at him in thread.

That's how I read it too. I think it's possible that a splicer attacked Mongoose and that the kill didn't go through. It's hard to say, the way MP has written it; it could just be part of the story line. If a splicer did attack Mongoose then I would be surprised, since I was not getting any baddie vibes from her.

I'm still not convinced about the case against bea. Like it has been mentioned several times, I don't think we should put too much stock in a day 2 vote, irrespective of its timing. I think the problem with that argument is that it's easier for us in hindsight to suspect foul play, but at the time putting a vote on someone else sometimes just makes more sense. It's very difficult for us to relive that exact moment when bea put her vote, from her perspective. Having said that, I also respect the fact that quite a few players think bea might be a baddie. With all the complex powers and role-interactions in this game, there may be reasons that I don't understand why people think so. I'm willing to consider that possibility, but at this moment, based simply on what's been happening in the thread, bea is not in my bad books. Equally importantly, I also see some subtle/some not-so-subtle bea-defense going on, and that makes me a little wary. I would like to hear more from bea herself, especially regarding her own suspects.

I haven't had a good read on Bullz so far. I'm going to read through the thread once again, a little later. Hopefully I will have something more to say about my own suspects at that time.

#1662

Aww poop on a pineapple, y'all.

Kindly avenge me! I'll see you around soon.

#1663

Love the voting option of Stephen King, MP!

#1664

So which of you bitches tried to kill me?

#1665

RIP Mongoose. I thought you were good and I enjoy playing with you. What a way to go!

#1666

nutella wrote:RIP Mongoose.

At this point I'm more inclined to vote for Bullzeye than Bea. I get part of the case on bea but I feel more strongly about the one on bullz.

Really? There's more of a case on Bea than there is on me. You've got her early blendiness combined with her vote that may have been to save BWT, whereas the only reason anyone has mentioned for me is my vote. We'd be better off lynching Bea or Dex I think.

#1667

Zany Dex wrote:So which of you bitches tried to kill me?

Do you mean as an NK? Cause I think you know all of us who voted for you to be lynched. I also plan to vote for you again btw unless something drastically changes.

#1668

Snow Dog wrote:RIP Mongoose. I thought you were good and I enjoy playing with you. What a way to go!

Thanks, I always enjoy you too! I am glad to have made a rather glorious exodus!

#1669

I hope bea comes on and says something about her flip-flop on Epi. I'm having trouble deciding between her and Dex.

#1670

Russtifinko wrote:I hope bea comes on and says something about her flip-flop on Epi. I'm having trouble deciding between her and Dex.

I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about this myself. Thank you for pointing this out Indi! I had forgotten about the flip-flop.

Dex?

Zany Dex wrote:So which of you bitches tried to kill me?

Other than the lynch voters who tried to kill you? Or when??

#1671

Zany Dex wrote:So which of you bitches tried to kill me?

It was me. I had an extra plasmid lying around sooooooo....

#1672

Viking funeral, eh Mongoose? RIPIYWG. As for this day's lynch, it really doesn't seem like we're getting any significant new information. Good to see Ajira bringing up the post count, bad to see Dex being so rude :P. I don't want to get tunnel vision, but it seems like we haven't yet been able to act on the conclusions of the last few days, so I don't see lynch targets really getting changed.

#1673

Mongoose wrote:Love the voting option of Stephen King, MP!

Ever the astute Mongoose! Nice crossover.

#1674

Boomslang wrote:Viking funeral, eh Mongoose? RIPIYWG. As for this day's lynch, it really doesn't seem like we're getting any significant new information. Good to see Ajira bringing up the post count, bad to see Dex being so rude :P. I don't want to get tunnel vision, but it seems like we haven't yet been able to act on the conclusions of the last few days, so I don't see lynch targets really getting changed.

Yeah, I agree with this. Not a lot has changed, so its a quiet forum again. Also, with tomorrows US of A holiday I imagine many like me will be voting early.

#1675

Hedgeowl wrote:
Boomslang wrote:Viking funeral, eh Mongoose? RIPIYWG. As for this day's lynch, it really doesn't seem like we're getting any significant new information. Good to see Ajira bringing up the post count, bad to see Dex being so rude :P. I don't want to get tunnel vision, but it seems like we haven't yet been able to act on the conclusions of the last few days, so I don't see lynch targets really getting changed.
Yeah, I agree with this. Not a lot has changed, so its a quiet forum again. Also, with tomorrows US of A holiday I imagine many like me will be voting early.

That's probably true. So, among those of us who are here (or in and out, at least), who are you guys favoring?

I forgot to mention G.O.B. in my earlier post, by the way. His postless voting also merits votes by now, I think.

#1676

As I seem to recall it - I was leary of epi during the time before teefies flipped baddie. After that, not so much.

Also - indi - I'm curious as to what game it is you are referring to that I was bad and conned you by being all "sweet." I for the life of me can't recall a single game in which we played together where I was bad and you weren't.

#1677

also - rip boo and mongoose.

#1678

ebwop - and boats. :faceplam: this is what mafia is like for me before caffine.

Ok - so my thought today was to see who, if anyone, has consistently voted for a civ, while not voting for teefies on day 2. Here's what i've come up with:

Day 1: A Person voters who did not vote for teefies and are still alive: Devin, Insertnamehere, Bullzeye, Snow Dog and Mata.
Day 3: Llama voters who did not vote for teefies and are still alive: Insertnamehere, Bullzeye, Devin and Mata. (Snow Dog voted Lizzy)
Day 4: Boo voters who did not vote for teefies and are still alive: Mata, Devin, Bullzeye and Snowdog
Day 5: Boats voters who did not vote for teefies and are still alive: Bullzeye, Devin, and Mata.

My main thinking here was that on Day 2 maybe the potential teammates didn't try to save teefies, but also maybe they didn't throw a vote their way. When I play as a baddie, I tend to vote the strongest case w/o much thought to it so that I can blend it. What I didn't expect to find was the same names pop up so often. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

I'd been leaning civ for devin.

I'm unsure about snowdog.

I forgot name was playing again.

I have no read on mata at all.

#1679

Have a nice cosy seat, Mongoosey. What can I get you?

#1680

What the fuck is teefies?

#1681

Snowie, I think teefies is BWT.

bea, thanks for the response. Your analysis is really interesting, and makes me think maybe the names on your list need a second look.

I think I'm unlikely to vote bea today. Still leaning more G.O.B. or Dex more than anyone else, but I'd also like to hear what the names bea mentioned have to say about their vote records.

#1682

Russtifinko wrote:Snowie, I think teefies is BWT.

bea, thanks for the response. Your analysis is really interesting, and makes me think maybe the names on your list need a second look.

I think I'm unlikely to vote bea today. Still leaning more G.O.B. or Dex more than anyone else, but I'd also like to hear what the names bea mentioned have to say about their vote records.

What is there to say really? I've had crappy instincts this game

. Doesn't really mean anything in my opinion.

#1683

ATTENTION:

I decided to extend the vote until 48 hours from now (Friday the 5th at 6:05PM EST) due to the U.S. holiday. I didn't initially consider extending the period longer than 48 hours, but it probably would be better for players in general and for me, so Day 6 will approximately be about 71 hours instead of 48. Since no living players had yet voted, I went ahead and made this judgment call. Hope everyone is OK with it.

This should be more than sufficient time, I think, and works out better.

#1684

@ Snowdog - yes - teefies is BWT. sorry, it's one of my pet names - he was horse with teeth then bird with teeth. I took to calling him teefies.

@ Russti - I agree - I'm not willing to vote any of the people mentioned without a decent look back at them, but I thought it was an interesting enough thing to point out to everyone.

@ bullz - If my theory isn't worth much, where else should we look? I mean obviously, besides me. Surely you can agree that there are more baddies than one in this game? And surely you can agree that it might be helpful to start looking for them yes? Since we disagree about my civness, perhaps we can agree on who else might be bad?

@ MP - that's perfectly fine by me. Thanks actually for the extension!

#1685

bea wrote:@ Snowdog - yes - teefies is BWT. sorry, it's one of my pet names - he was horse with teeth then bird with teeth. I took to calling him teefies.

@ Russti - I agree - I'm not willing to vote any of the people mentioned without a decent look back at them, but I thought it was an interesting enough thing to point out to everyone.

@ bullz - If my theory isn't worth much, where else should we look? I mean obviously, besides me. Surely you can agree that there are more baddies than one in this game? And surely you can agree that it might be helpful to start looking for them yes? Since we disagree about my civness, perhaps we can agree on who else might be bad?

@ MP - that's perfectly fine by me. Thanks actually for the extension!

I think it would be worth something if there was more to it. As it stands it's just an interesting observation that several of us have had bad luck with all of our votes. Aside from you I think Dex is worth taking a look at, he's been on and off my radar all game. I also don't have the best feeling about Dom, but I can't quite put my finger on why that is. Something about him just isn't sitting right with me.

#1686

Another thing I've been wondering about, which I think Boo sort of touched upon before he died, is the possibility of DH himself being a BWT teammate. For all the witch hunting he did he voted early for Mongoose on the day BWT died. Dedicating a large amount of your posts to finding a baddie's teammates is definitely a good way of making people doubt that you yourself are on that team I suppose. Does anyone have any thoughts about that? It's 100% WIFOM but I think it's worth considering.

#1687

Bullzeye wrote:Another thing I've been wondering about, which I think Boo sort of touched upon before he died, is the possibility of DH himself being a BWT teammate. For all the witch hunting he did he voted early for Mongoose on the day BWT died. Dedicating a large amount of your posts to finding a baddie's teammates is definitely a good way of making people doubt that you yourself are on that team I suppose. Does anyone have any thoughts about that? It's 100% WIFOM but I think it's worth considering.

I think you're a hypocrite. DharmaHelper voted seventh for Mongoose on Day 2. You voted for Aces twenty-second.

#1688

honestly, I am not sure where I stand with DH. I've seen his baddie game more intimately than his civ one and I know his bad game is so good, it's easy to always think of him as bad. So, yea, I combat that a lot. I mistakenly helped lynch him quickly in Spongebob. Right now, all I'm seeing that could make him be bad is paranoia.

I can't even begin to make heads or tails of what is going on in dex's world. His posts feel like they are wabbit posts on crack.

Dom hasn't sparked me yet though I don't trust him yet either. For me, it's our mutual lack of trust for each other is the thing that has me most convinced that Dom might be civ. I'd need more than a "something I can't put my figure on" to look his way at this point. (I realize this sounds odd, but it is completely about par for the course of every time dom and I have played together. I'd be hecka worried about him if he were championing hard for my civness. I'm sure he would feel the same about me.)

#1689

Epignosis wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Another thing I've been wondering about, which I think Boo sort of touched upon before he died, is the possibility of DH himself being a BWT teammate. For all the witch hunting he did he voted early for Mongoose on the day BWT died. Dedicating a large amount of your posts to finding a baddie's teammates is definitely a good way of making people doubt that you yourself are on that team I suppose. Does anyone have any thoughts about that? It's 100% WIFOM but I think it's worth considering.
I think you're a hypocrite. DharmaHelper voted seventh for Mongoose on Day 2. You voted for Aces twenty-second.

Quick to defend DH's honour there, did I touch a nerve? There isn't even any proof I voted for a civvie that day. We don't know Aces' role, he could be anyone. As to the earliness of DH's vote: "How could I possibly have been trying to protect a teammate? Look at how early my vote for absolutely anyone but him was!". Like I said, it's total WIFOM but I thought it was something worth mentioning. Considering how Boo was calling for his head on a spike I don't think I'm the first to notice. Not seeing how that makes me a hypocrite.

#1690

Yeah I have been doing a pretty shitty job of reading people this game! I have all but given up on it!
It doesn't help that I don't have time to do thorough rereads either.

You and Bioshock: Which have you played and would you be interested in my upcoming sequel?