Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

#1961

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm dead.

My reaction to seeing this was, in order: 1. Joy that we caught a scum, 2. Regret that I wasn't part of finally catching a scum-Marmot.

#1962

Caught up.

Interactive reads are...reads about interactions? Example: What does Marmot say about Jack and what does Jack say about Marmot? Yeah?

@LC

Silver only kills on odd nights.

#1963

Recinding my preference to be paired with Quin over Sloonei. Sloonei and I are town together.

Not sure about Quin. More on him in a bit.

@Sloonei

Let's compare Quin's initial posts aimed at Sloonei this morning

Spoiler: show

To mine.

Spoiler: show

Note the extreme tone difference between my question and Quinn's accusation.

Also note that I have disagreed with the Dizzy lynch and put him as town. While Quin, INH and MM were after Dizzy, I was voting Scotty. Was gonna answer Quin's question towards me on Dizzy but figured I'd just clutter the thread with more linkis. Was sure she was town. Had already said so.

Can we be friends again?

Coming back with a full rainbow in a couple hours.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1964

@LC, I still very much believe Dys is civ.

I really can't decide how I feel about you Jack, I keep going back and forth.

#1965

I read Scotty's posts and speedchucks case on him. Scotty, I'm not loving that you didn't put a good defense out there to what speedchuck posted. It seemed like you addressed all things that were thrown out there about you in GOC, in fact even showed anger at some (the fake peak issue) but in this case you kind of just skipped right over the accusations and didn't show any passion about there being a case. What's the reason you didn't put on a defense here?

#1966

Ok finally caught up after reading on breaks.

During the entire Quin/Sloonei tirade with a threepage spread, I kept going back and forth on my opinion on alignment and I felt stronger that Quin picked up on Sloon's final MM vote pretty well. From that exchange I viewed Quin as good and Sloonei as bad. At the point in the finale, it seemed clear that a baddie would want to appear as civ as possible, so avoiding a no-lynch would be a great way to go.

This doesn't come as a No-U mentality. He was all over my ass last phase I know, but I found that to be pretty civ-like. Someone mentioned yesterday that he was pretty non-commital, and I do see that.

This probably isn't the most popular opinion, as several of you have expressed an opinion to the contrary, but I legit don't know what a bad Sloonei looks like. As far as I've known, I don't think I've played with a bad Sloonei before. He staked his claim that he's supremely good at reading when I'm bad, and was sure gung-ho about it all last phase for flimsy reasoning. Because I'm a little indignant, and I know from my perspective that I'm not bad, it makes his push against me seem that much more fabricated, if he's really as good at reading when I'm bad as he says he is.

#1967

Quin wrote:Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?

No. I targeted Jay and ended up targeting Fredwood.

#1968

Sloonei wrote:insertnamehere provided a really interesting point as evidence against Dyslexicon at the end of the day. But I took interest in it not as evidence against Dyslexicon at all. Where INH sees Dyslexicon buddying with Golden, I see grounds for suspicion of Golden.

I'm surprised to hear inh took this as a reason for suspicion of Dizzy. If taken at face value, I should be the one who gets suspected. But it shouldn't be taken at face value - people should make their own assessment of my content instead of relying on a second hand perspective.

Dizzy was suggesting I knew he's town when doing my rainbow list and, I'm not sure at what specific times other than that. To be fair, I understood how Dizzy got to that view. I was strongly critical of most if not all of the people who voted for him on day one (there may have been some exceptions, but I can't remember now). But if you look at what I actually said, it will mesh with what my mindset actually was, which is that I had a problem with people who continued to suspect Dizzy for his "slip" because for me there was incontrovertible proof that the slip was not a real slip. The two are completely different mindsets but in the end can appear quite similar in effect.

Put another way, dizzy looked like an easy mark for ongoing suspicion and I wasn't afraid to say it. And I don't think Dizzy is used to the extent that I'm willing to defend town reads yet.

#1969

juliets wrote:I read Scotty's posts and speedchucks case on him. Scotty, I'm not loving that you didn't put a good defense out there to what speedchuck posted. It seemed like you addressed all things that were thrown out there about you in GOC, in fact even showed anger at some (the fake peak issue) but in this case you kind of just skipped right over the accusations and didn't show any passion about there being a case. What's the reason you didn't put on a defense here?

1) as cliche as it sounds, time constraints. It's been quite the exhausting week here in Canada and the only time I have service are during shows and at the hotel, where I have commitments. So during the show as t is, I'm doing less responding and more initial thoughts.
2) that case in particular is less a case than it is a listing of my posts and speed's thoughts about them. He's not really unfounded on a lot of it, coming from lack of reads.

#1970

Actually you know what I just remembered?

Speedchuck said he was going to ISO me and then Mm.
He ISO'd me and stopped there, thinking he "caught me". And even after I insisted he ISO mM as well to get out of the tunnel, he didn't. Kept insisting I was bad.

I think I do need to ISO chuck when I get a spare moment because I read that read as genuine but wrong suspicion of me. And civ behavior. Because It reminds me of me when I'm actively hunting but run out of steam. But now I'm wondering if it was all fabricated to pick on a (sigh) low poster like me.

#1971

Less hot out of the gates

VOTALS:

INH (1): Dyslexicon
JoH (1): Sloonei

With 16 Alive, it takes 9 to Lynch and 5 to Soft Lynch.

Day ends in approx, 30 hours

Also, Night 2 flavor has finally been posted for those interested in how MM dies

#1972

Someone also mentioned to coordinate item giving in the night because baddies are likelier to group their votes on one, where ours might be more spread out. I'm going to be voting for Nutella tonight most likely in case I forget. If anyone else wants to join me

#1973

just realized i had put "17 alive" instead of 16, my apologies it's fixed now

#1974

Quin wrote:I don't know what Occam's Razor is.

Clearly.

---

Anyway. I thought the Quin/Sloonei discussion looked more town/town than anything else. Will be interested to see what other's say about that. Or if they're taking most of the spotlight.

I might read a bit tonight, but will have to do most of the work with the game tomorrow night.

#1975

Strawhenge wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm dead.
My reaction to seeing this was, in order: 1. Joy that we caught a scum, 2. Regret that I wasn't part of finally catching a scum-Marmot.

You had interesting interactions with Marmot.
But I'll expand on that later.

#1976

I want to put this out there:
Eloh is suspicious to me for asking Quin who to vote so near EoD. At the time Quin was voting me, and the votes very quite tied between players (scum!Marmot! among others). It's very possible to me that Eloh wanted Quin to answer her that she should vote for me. Quin answered that there are good cases for all the vote options, and Eloh proceeded to vote self. Marmot commented on this with "Scum would never do this

) or something similar.

Has she shown up today at all?

Haven't read everything, but from the very brief posts of Juliets, I don't feel particularly good. Gut reaction. I did see she had a question for me, so

@Juliets - That game was a total different situation as my meta is known there (and therefor interacts very differently, and I probably act differently as well). I had suspicion on that player who commented on my fakeslip there regardless of how she commented. Everyone else ignored the slip. Only when I brought it back up the same player started to spin it again in a way that pinged me, and then it became a minor point in an already strong suspicion (based on other things). Hope this answered your question.

#1977

Dyslexicon wrote:I want to put this out there:
Eloh is suspicious to me for asking Quin who to vote so near EoD. At the time Quin was voting me, and the votes very quite tied between players (scum!Marmot! among others). It's very possible to me that Eloh wanted Quin to answer her that she should vote for me. Quin answered that there are good cases for all the vote options, and Eloh proceeded to vote self. Marmot commented on this with "Scum would never do this ) or something similar.

Has she shown up today at all?

Haven't read everything, but from the very brief posts of Juliets, I don't feel particularly good. Gut reaction. I did see she had a question for me, so

@Juliets - That game was a total different situation as my meta is known there (and therefor interacts very differently, and I probably act differently as well). I had suspicion on that player who commented on my fakeslip there regardless of how she commented. Everyone else ignored the slip. Only when I brought it back up the same player started to spin it again in a way that pinged me, and then it became a minor point in an already strong suspicion (based on other things). Hope this answered your question.

Yes, that answered my question, thanks.

Can you tell me why you don't feel good about my post (not sure which it was)?

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1978

Eh, I think it's pretty obvious that Eloh has just not read any of the game at all and was just popping in to vote, and presumably she felt like Quin was someone she could trust for some arbitrary reason. I don't think we can read much into anything she's done because she literally has not read the thread, and I kind of doubt she would openly express that trust of Quin if they were teammates. Honestly I'm kind of annoyed that she hasn't asked to be replaced at this point. She could be bad and not participating, or she could be town and not participating, and we have pretty much nothing to indicate which is the case.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1979

Like she admitted that she only signed up because nobody else was and she felt bad that it wasn't getting filled up, but knew she wouldn't be able to participate much. That pisses me off tbh. Don't sign up for a game you don't intend to play. She could have easily contacted other people who might have been interested in signing up who just hadn't seen it (as I expressed in the sign up thread, it took way too long for a general PM to go out asking for signups). Really nothing irks me more than when people sign up for a game and don't even try to read the thread. When I sign up for a mafia game I take it seriously as a commitment to keep up as well as I can. I have no respect for people who don't view it this way. She needs to be replaced.

#1980

nutella wrote:Eh, I think it's pretty obvious that Eloh has just not read any of the game at all and was just popping in to vote, and presumably she felt like Quin was someone she could trust for some arbitrary reason. I don't think we can read much into anything she's done because she literally has not read the thread, and I kind of doubt she would openly express that trust of Quin if they were teammates. Honestly I'm kind of annoyed that she hasn't asked to be replaced at this point. She could be bad and not participating, or she could be town and not participating, and we have pretty much nothing to indicate which is the case.

Yeah, I'm not saying Eloh/Quin are teamed at all, I would say very like not.

#1981

juliets wrote:Yes, that answered my question, thanks.

Can you tell me why you don't feel good about my post (not sure which it was)?

No, it's just gut at this point. (I know this can be frustrating as it's impossible to answer to). Will have to read everything more closely tomorrow. Been super busy all weekend, and need to sleep now.

#1982

Dyslexicon wrote:
juliets wrote:Yes, that answered my question, thanks.

Can you tell me why you don't feel good about my post (not sure which it was)?
No, it's just gut at this point. (I know this can be frustrating as it's impossible to answer to). Will have to read everything more closely tomorrow. Been super busy all weekend, and need to sleep now.

Thats ok. I will surely have some gut feelings of my own before this is over.

#1983

Ok. So I went back through speedchuck's posts.

He makes a statement where he looks to go over a myriad of names, focusing on me and MM. he then posts a complete breakdown of my posts at that point, with comments of what he'd like to see to improve my standing in his eyes, which included a general comment of posting more and backing up statements.

After my giant "case" he then says he's moving on to MM and posts this:

speedchuck wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 78#p335178

This post is interesting because it contradicts itself? It, at the beginning of the post, says that logic points to Dizzy doing an on-purpose fakeslip.
Then says later in the thread that it is an accident.
Then I think they ended the day on Dizzy, despite saying they felt good about Diz in the same post.

Maybe Marmot just didn't want to be on SIG?

I don't know. Most of what bothers me about marmot's posts probably have to do with their playstyle/his low activity thanks to other games. Nothing particularly useful, I think. Would lynch scotty over marmot. Unless contradicting themselves in order to seem agreeable and unsure is a Meta-Marmot-Metal-Marsh-Mafia-Move.

Wait, that's it? You linked to one post, and said it was "interesting"? With a Question Mark??

A brief questioning of his possible motive for not voting sig, but chalks up the entire history of marmot with his suspicion hinging on his "playstyle/his low actively due to other games."

Where was I? Not in other games? Oh right, marmot and I were in the same game of champions and both of us had stuff on our plates. But why does he get a pass? Did you even ISO his post history?

This is like putting some chicken in the oven, forgetting about it, coming back to find your house has burned down, and the first thing you think is, "oh I forgot to start on the broccoli. Oh well"

Compared to the case on me, you shrugged off MM as if you never really suspected him to begin with, and never looked back the entire rest of the day.

Dude, you bad.

VOTE SPEEDCHUCK

#1984

Oh, and this:

speedchuck wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
speedchuck wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:Okay I've sat on this long enough that we've seen people comment on Wigly and others avoid doing so, despite my request.

I killed Wigly, and unfortunately he was town. Sorry Wigly, but there was really nothing constructive at all from you on D1 when I ISOed you and i figured after Sig turned up town that taking out another suspicious D1 player would give us the most info on the reads of others towards you D1 as I was really hoping I was right about you being scum.
There goes the pants.

I don't know exactly what you are claiming, but would you please clarify:
Did you get Wigly's entire role, or just alignment?

I would ask, if this is a one-shot ability (a question on its own), why did you use it on day one? But I feel like any answer to that question would provide more value to mafia than town. I say this as a person used to power-claims. Please don't answer these latter questions unless you have a very good reason for doing so.

For the record, I tentatively believe Silver Lantern on this one.
If you believe Silver, why are you fishing for more info about his role?
I'm fishing for Wilgy's role. You know, the dead guy. I feel like that much info would be valuable to town, should it be provided.
I feel like info related to the one-shottedness of SL's role or role-related reasons for killing D1 (which I wouldn't do as a vig) would be of negative value to town. This is the conclusion I came to, based on my time playing. I can further explain my reasoning, should it be required, but I don't think that's your point.

If you disagree, please say so before he replies, and explain why. And if SL disagrees (having more information than I do), then he can ignore me. Edit before posting: As he (apparently) did.

That's beneficial to both parties and you know it.

#1985

Scotty, you have named two suspects (that I've seen) today: me and speedchuck. The two people who hammered on metalmarsh, confirmed scum, yesterday were me and speedchuck. Just an observation. What do you think of this?

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1986

Scotty wrote:Ok. So I went back through speedchuck's posts.

He makes a statement where he looks to go over a myriad of names, focusing on me and MM. he then posts a complete breakdown of my posts at that point, with comments of what he'd like to see to improve my standing in his eyes, which included a general comment of posting more and backing up statements.

After my giant "case" he then says he's moving on to MM and posts this:

speedchuck wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 78#p335178

This post is interesting because it contradicts itself? It, at the beginning of the post, says that logic points to Dizzy doing an on-purpose fakeslip.
Then says later in the thread that it is an accident.
Then I think they ended the day on Dizzy, despite saying they felt good about Diz in the same post.

Maybe Marmot just didn't want to be on SIG?

I don't know. Most of what bothers me about marmot's posts probably have to do with their playstyle/his low activity thanks to other games. Nothing particularly useful, I think. Would lynch scotty over marmot. Unless contradicting themselves in order to seem agreeable and unsure is a Meta-Marmot-Metal-Marsh-Mafia-Move.
Wait, that's it? You linked to one post, and said it was "interesting"? With a Question Mark??

A brief questioning of his possible motive for not voting sig, but chalks up the entire history of marmot with his suspicion hinging on his "playstyle/his low actively due to other games." Where was I? Not in other games? Oh right, marmot and I were in the same game of champions and both of us had stuff on our plates. But why does he get a pass? Did you even ISO his post history?

This is like putting some chicken in the oven, forgetting about it, coming back to find your house has burned down, and the first thing you think is, "oh I forgot to start on the broccoli. Oh well"

Compared to the case on me, you shrugged off MM as if you never really suspected him to begin with, and never looked back the entire rest of the day.

Dude, you bad.

VOTE SPEEDCHUCK

Dang. I like this.

I'm gonna iso him myself.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1987

Sloonei wrote:Scotty, you have named two suspects (that I've seen) today: me and speedchuck. The two people who hammered on metalmarsh, confirmed scum, yesterday were me and speedchuck. Just an observation. What do you think of this?

Oh speed did vote for mm didn't he. Well that may give me pause. Again I'll have to have a look for myself -- at face value I like Scotty's findings, but I have felt good about speed for most of the game so

#1988

To be fair, I don't think speedchuck should be written off as a suspect just because of his vote. He'd put himself in the "any lynch is better than no lynch" corner, and when things shook out at the end metalmarsh was the only viable option. His only options were to do nothing and look awful, or hammer the marmot.

#1989

nutella wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Scotty, you have named two suspects (that I've seen) today: me and speedchuck. The two people who hammered on metalmarsh, confirmed scum, yesterday were me and speedchuck. Just an observation. What do you think of this?
Oh speed did vote for mm didn't he. Well that may give me pause. Again I'll have to have a look for myself -- at face value I like Scotty's findings, but I have felt good about speed for most of the game so

I have felt bad about Spd for most of the game.

Why have you felt good about him?

#1990

I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.

#1991

Long Con wrote:Sloonei, you defended Dyslexicon multiple times- why so sure she's Civ?

I would not say that I defended Dyslexicon. I was completely unsure who I was going to vote for all day yesterday and I had to figure it out on the fly. I was probing INH and Quin about their cases against Dizzy and responded with my thoughts. There were parts of the case I agreed with and I said so, but there were also parts of the case I disagreed with, and I said so. There was no defense at all, that was just me trying to figure out what to do.

It's interesting that you've labeled my behavior as a defense of Dyslexicon, whereas Quin came out and attacked me today because he believes my posts indicate I was suspicious of Dyslexicon.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1992

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
nutella wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Scotty, you have named two suspects (that I've seen) today: me and speedchuck. The two people who hammered on metalmarsh, confirmed scum, yesterday were me and speedchuck. Just an observation. What do you think of this?
Oh speed did vote for mm didn't he. Well that may give me pause. Again I'll have to have a look for myself -- at face value I like Scotty's findings, but I have felt good about speed for most of the game so
I have felt bad about Spd for most of the game.

Why have you felt good about him?

In general I have really liked and agreed with a lot of his contributions, and got pretty strong town vibes.

#1993

*checks for thorough interactive analyses*

#1994

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:*checks for thorough interactive analyses*

Check back in two hours or so, I just got home from work and need to jog.

#1995

nutella, when you are finished with your speedchuck research could you talk about your suspicion of LC? I am a notoriously bad reader of him - I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie. I did skim through his posts and saw he changed to Marmot seemingly on your recommendation which I thought was a good thing but obviously you are seeing something else in him.

#1996

Speedchuck wrote:7. I had opinions on Marmot. They were bad. They've been pacified by people who know him. If it weren't for their assurance, he'd be in my top three to lynch

Why? No you didn't. They were

speedchuck wrote:I gave 80% of this list, but it was spread over my posts today.

Fredwood
Golden
Nutella

Sloonei
Dyslexicon
Quin - I disagree a lot with Quin's reads. They don't seem like shade, though. D2 much higher than D1

Soneji
Silver Lantern
Strawhenge
JJJ

JackofHearts
LongCon

MM (marmot)
Scotty - My whole case from earlier. Also, when he responded, he said I was tunnelling, told me to ISO marmot. 1 post later, said marmot was town. Only read he gave was on INH.

insertnamehere - posted a huge thing against Dys, and I only agreed with one point on it. The rest looked like a scum filter over earnest attempts to help the town and one blunder. wasn't a huge fan beforehand, either.

The one point I did agree with on it is that Dizzy seems to go after people that considered him neutral. I don't really consider that scummy, but...

Dizzy has said like five times that they are suspicious of me, and haven't sent a vote or an explanation my way. Calling you out, Dizzybro. Put er up.

Might be voting INH in another few posts, or I might keep scotty or marmot. The culture here says not to throw your vote around every other post, so I won't.

Remembering this.
Right before this post, Nutella votes MM to start it. Immediately after this post, speed votes MM. So he's following his promise, and has just said he won't throw his vote around every other post. Having these options open are great and can keep him ingratiated in the town's eyes if the tides turn on MM, which they did.

Let's move on.

speedchuck wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
speedchuck wrote:I have no issue with any of those four lynches, though the idea of a Chinese Fire Drill scares me.
^Here's you saying you don't want to switch off that four person group, Speed.

Am I misinterpreting that? You said I was lying...
Ah. I take that back.
No, you weren't intentionally lying.
Yes, you were misinterpreting it. The Chinese fire drill referred to switching off of SIG and onto another of those four people: sig, Elohcin, Sorsha/replacement, and DrWilgy. With the JJJ question in context, and as close to the end of the day as we were, I thought that was pretty clear. Just because I have no issue with the four lynches, doesn't mean I wasn't happy with others (though I'd have to look at my opinions at the time to tell you which ones). The CFD applied to those four, and to JJJ's question.

So I didn't want to switch in the four person group, in context.
You can still consider that scummy, if you want, though. I, being used to week-long cycles, am normally quite upset if there's no clear lynch by 5 hours till deadline. CFD in a 48 hour day is frightening.

Quite. As we would find out, the last 30 minutes was a cluster fuck.

speedchuck wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:
Sloonei wrote:A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.
Well...
That post was the main reason I wasn't trying to push Scotty. I'd be happy to vote Scotty, honestly happier than with Marmot.

If most of the active players would give reads of Scotty and Marmot, that'd be fantastic. Maybe throw some INH vs Dizzy in there, which most of you are already doing.
I think we have many better options for a lynch than Eloh, if anyone is still on them.

My preference of lynch, in order:
1. Scotty
2. Marmot/INH (Tie, really)

This post was made right after Sloonei votes for me.

Speed then went full throttle, since Sloonei gave him the out he needed, and started pushing his preference of Scotty>Marmot. How great.

Both of these posts make me feel bad about Both Sloonei and Speed. As if they were patting themselves on the back as if they've solved a riddle on Blues Clues.

A little over an hour after his vote for MM, who was leading the lynch, comes:

speedchuck wrote:
Sloonei wrote: I'm gonna start advocating for a Scotty lynch. Hey everyone, why aren't you voting for Scotty?
Because you meta-readers shut me down when I originally advocated for it.

Vote Scotty

Oh, so that's all it took? Remember that post he made an hour ago saying he wouldn't throw his post around? Yeah, here we are.

30 minutes before EoD:

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Do you have any more specific thoughts regarding Scotty and Metalmarsh?
Not caught up on the last bits. I think Scotty has been softly role hinting from D1, which I find more unlikely to come from scum. Though I'm not sure why he's doing it at all. I suspect Marmot more than Scotty, he seems aloof and none of the interactions I've had with him makes me feel good, and I remember him differently from the game I played here a while ago. Nut pushing on him also makes me feel better about my read.
SINCE WHEN IS MAGIC BAGGINS A TOWN MOVE

Silver Lantern wrote:
Sloonei wrote:unvote Scotty

I am currently voting for nobody. Since he suggested in his latest post that he can prove his towniness with role shenanigans, I'm willing to give him a chance to do that.
You're gonna fall for that ploy? Wow, I take back anything good I ever said about you...
OH THANK GOD

Quin wrote:I would prefer that Eloh be replaced, rather than lynched. Voting for her feels like a cop out at this point.
THANK YOU

insertnamehere wrote:QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

Would you rather Dyslexicon be lynched, or no one be lynched?
NO

insertnamehere wrote:Yo, Elochin, I see you reading the thread.

Vote Dyslexicon.

Pretty please.
NO!

Silver Lantern wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?
If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?
DANGIT YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO REVEAL THAT YOU COULD DO THAT, EVEN JOKINGLY

Silver Lantern wrote:
insertnamehere wrote: I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.
It boggles my mind how you people have no proble "learning something" by whittling down town #s, but yet asking someone to share a night result is like kissing a leper...
THANK YOU AS WELL

Sorry about all of the caps, it's a good way to tell my writing apart from the posts in notepad. Also the thread is falling apart holy crap.

Insertnamehere is chasing a lynch for possible town reasons, but in the scummiest way possible.
Sounds like him.

Gonna figure out where to go in the next 40 minutes. Happiest with a Scotty lynch (sorry scotty, but I don't know your meta, and everything you've said since I did my ISO screames at me for lynching)

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

Would you rather Dyslexicon be lynched, or no one be lynched?
I'll take somebody over nobody unless that somebody is me or someone I am 100% certain is town.
I'll state the obvious. You're one of the few active voters who is still up in the air.

I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.
I agree. I am trying very hard to figure out where my vote should go, but I'm feeling very scatterbrained right now.
Follow my lead.

Vote Lynch Metalmarsh89
CRAP

Wtf was that post. Why does he say CRAP when Mm votes himself?
And why does he keep referencing that he would rather lynch me over Mm, if MM still is on his bad list? Why not just go along with the crowd, if he really wanted MM lynched?

Followed 5 minutes later by THIS post:

speedchuck wrote:
insertnamehere wrote: What about if we just go ahead and lynch Dys, then you can figure out me and Marmot's alignment?
What is I think you're all three town ATM

Wtf? What the actual fuck? What happened to the red MM/INH/Scotty being your biggest scum reads? Now the first two are TOWN?

speedchuck wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
speedchuck wrote:
insertnamehere wrote: What about if we just go ahead and lynch Dys, then you can figure out me and Marmot's alignment?
What is I think you're all three town ATM
I don't understand.

Your last rainbow says otherwise.
Some things have changes since my last rainbow.

If you two are scum (yes you are lumped together), you have GIGANTIC BALLS to be pulling all of this. TBH, I almost think I'm wrong about Dizzy now. Almost. Not quite.

I can hardly keep up with the posts right now.

Scotty is my most confident read too.
SL, I believe you now because of the reveal that you have more vigs. Falsifiable and unbalanced as scum. Good for my read, bad for your survivability. Protectives take note. Wish you hadn't said that.

WOW is anyone else seeing this? Mm even calls him out on it, which in and of itself is pure WIFOM, but he's all but dropped his suspicion of anyone else except me. I'd bet on him if he were a horse, because he's got LAZER FOCUS.

Then has the gall to say that bit about Silver probably not surviving. Even if speed is town, this is such a twrrrrrrible point to keep hammering home.

speedchuck wrote:
nutella wrote: I went over this in a post soon after INH's big ISO. I see heavy connections between INH and Marmot (there were some soft defenses in that iso post, for one thing), and I feel an anti-alignment between that pair and between Dys and JJJ because most of INH's ISO was promoting the idea that Dys and JJJ could be baddie teammates. So, if Marmot flips civ, I'd be more inclined to trust INH, and thus more inclined to entertain the notion that Dys/JJJ are bad.
I honestly can't see INH and Marmot being scum at this point. Mostly because of how blatant everything right now is with them trying to kill Dys.
But I thought all this time that Dys was town.

I do see that same thing though, yeah.

Disclaimer for me: I WILL literally vote for anyone that isn't in my SUPER DUPER town list to secure a lynch.
My SUPER DUPER town list is being shaken up.

Why do you guys post so much this close to deadline? Agh post earlier so we can sort things out

Are...are you saying INH and MM moved into your SUPER DUPER town list? WHAT ON GODS GREEN EARTH.

He's blaming everyone else on the lack of coordination at the end. It wasn't until Sloonei changed his vote to me that a player had 4 or more votes (that was Mm).

speedchuck wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
speedchuck wrote: I'm ballsy/stupid enough to do so, but Sloonei usually isn't.
My bad. Meant metalmarsh

Oops. He forgot his scum mate.
Before this, he doesn't know if they're "surescum" or "suretown". But I'm apparently ULTRA KAMAYHA MAYHA SCUM. apparently.

speedchuck wrote:Dammit

Vote mM

The final and locking vote for a lynch. Thanks to Sloonei and chuck for actually bringing a lynch today. It sure sounds like speed isn't happy about it, but HEY! It didn't end in a no-lynch, so that's good right?

If speed had just left it alone, there would be a no-lynch. But he was obviously around at EoD, and had previously expressed "opinion" that Mm was bad, so it would look fishy if he didn't respond in kind.

I dunno guys. I'm going full Speedchuck this phase and giving him all the bullshit he gave me last phase.

Except this time I think i actually caught scum

#1997

Sloonei wrote:I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.

Hi.

In light of rereading the last 7 pages of the EoD, you made bold decisions to turn the tide against Mm and onto me. Speed followed you around like a puppy.

In a way, that makes Speed look worse than you, but I'm not gonna lie: both of you made a joint effort to steer that lynch away from Mm from my perusal and when there was significant backlash to my lynch, only then did you both basically give up on me and seal the fate for MM.

I'd say you guys are looking pretty solidly bad as potential savers for MM.

#1998

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.
Hi.

In light of rereading the last 7 pages of the EoD, you made bold decisions to turn the tide against Mm and onto me. Speed followed you around like a puppy.

In a way, that makes Speed look worse than you, but I'm not gonna lie: both of you made a joint effort to steer that lynch away from Mm from my perusal and when there was significant backlash to my lynch, only then did you both basically give up on me and seal the fate for MM.

I'd say you guys are looking pretty solidly bad as potential savers for MM.

You think I was steering things? That's remarkable. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. A reminder once again that I had just subbed into this game during Day 2.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1999

Just finished looking through speedchuck's posts and I am seeing some of the same things that Scotty mentions above. Definitely some weird waffling on MM. He quickly follows me in voting for him, only to switch back to Scotty. Then comes a lot of confusing flip-flopping: before those votes, he had done his Scotty ISO and then a quick one on MM, after which he seemed to have a pretty null read on MM. After he follows my vote, he says Marmot and INH are tied for his second-place scum read/lynch preference after Scotty, and puts them as red in his rainbow. He then switches his vote back to Scotty, says he likes INH's criticism of the MM train, and then suddenly makes that weird post saying he thinks MM and INH are town out of almost nowhere, and says he thinks it's very unlikely that MM and INH are scum. But then at the last minute he puts the finishing vote on MM. I don't really understand what happened in his mind there.

Part of me wants to feel the same way about him that I feel about Sloonei, that he was honestly changing his mind and was flip-flopping with good intentions. But part of me finds it pretty suspicious -- and it goes along with his flip-flopping in reads of LC as well. Early in the game he mentions several times how he could see LC as bad but leans slight town on him nonetheless. Then he goes back to a slight scumread of him after Strawhenge posts a case, but never follows that up. On Day 2 he says "LC gradually made more sense" and later that he's "looking better" and "I'm at a slight town read on him where I was once light scum." Next mention of LC is in the orange section of a rainbow with no explanation. WTF?? Like, I understand having trouble making up your mind on LC because that's how I felt for a while too, but saying you have a town read of him and then suddenly placing him at a solid orange without explaining why... that's textbook teammate behavior.

#2000

Sloonei wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.
Hi.

In light of rereading the last 7 pages of the EoD, you made bold decisions to turn the tide against Mm and onto me. Speed followed you around like a puppy.

In a way, that makes Speed look worse than you, but I'm not gonna lie: both of you made a joint effort to steer that lynch away from Mm from my perusal and when there was significant backlash to my lynch, only then did you both basically give up on me and seal the fate for MM.

I'd say you guys are looking pretty solidly bad as potential savers for MM.
You think I was steering things? That's remarkable. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. A reminder once again that I had just subbed into this game during Day 2.

I know about the last point. You keep bringing that up.

Yes. There were 4 votes parked on MM 4 hours before EoD: after more discussion with yourself, you decided to switch to me, followed by 3 other sycophants. People were following you whether or want to admit it or not. You have a habit of leading discussion, which is awesome by itself, but the discussion quickly turned towards ambiguity towards the end when people weren't biting on y'all's calls for my lynching due to my supposed "contradiction".

Don't play victim here- "I had absolutely no idea what I was doing" you had a enough of a disposition to feel confident in your read of me, even though, as you continually said, you hadn't fully caught up.
Even you yourself said you played sloppily the EoD. I don't owe you results of my night action, and I certainly don't accept you trying to abstain from responsibility of he thread.

On the flip side, I didn't do shit to steer the thread, because I was barely around. Can you agree with that?

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #2001

juliets wrote:nutella, when you are finished with your speedchuck research could you talk about your suspicion of LC? I am a notoriously bad reader of him - I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie. I did skim through his posts and saw he changed to Marmot seemingly on your recommendation which I thought was a good thing but obviously you are seeing something else in him.

A lot of it has to do with connections to other players, including Marmot. When I looked at LC's ISO I got the feeling he's a likely teammate of Marmot's based a few things, and JJJ got the same feeling from Marmot's mentions of LC. I could look back and see if I can pull up specific places that support this feeling, but it's also kind of a general vibe, and also has a lot to do with connections I see to other players who I think could be marmot buddies -- there are several I have considered, but sketchy interactional reads re: LC have been the common denominator between all of them. To be fair, I flip-flopped on LC a fair amount for the first couple days as well, so it might just be that he looks ambiguous and so people have ambiguous feelings toward him, but that's easy for a teammate to hide in, so in my mind it increases the likelihood that I'm right about at least one or two of these possible connections I'm seeing.

#2002

nutella wrote:Just finished looking through speedchuck's posts and I am seeing some of the same things that Scotty mentions above. Definitely some weird waffling on MM. He quickly follows me in voting for him, only to switch back to Scotty. Then comes a lot of confusing flip-flopping: before those votes, he had done his Scotty ISO and then a quick one on MM, after which he seemed to have a pretty null read on MM. After he follows my vote, he says Marmot and INH are tied for his second-place scum read/lynch preference after Scotty, and puts them as red in his rainbow. He then switches his vote back to Scotty, says he likes INH's criticism of the MM train, and then suddenly makes that weird post saying he thinks MM and INH are town out of almost nowhere, and says he thinks it's very unlikely that MM and INH are scum. But then at the last minute he puts the finishing vote on MM. I don't really understand what happened in his mind there.

Part of me wants to feel the same way about him that I feel about Sloonei, that he was honestly changing his mind and was flip-flopping with good intentions. But part of me finds it pretty suspicious -- and it goes along with his flip-flopping in reads of LC as well. Early in the game he mentions several times how he could see LC as bad but leans slight town on him nonetheless. Then he goes back to a slight scumread of him after Strawhenge posts a case, but never follows that up. On Day 2 he says "LC gradually made more sense" and later that he's "looking better" and "I'm at a slight town read on him where I was once light scum." Next mention of LC is in the orange section of a rainbow with no explanation. WTF?? Like, I understand having trouble making up your mind on LC because that's how I felt for a while too, but saying you have a town read of him and then suddenly placing him at a solid orange without explaining why... that's textbook teammate behavior.

It was quite enlightening reading back. I was like 2 hours behind when I read back at 10:40p and I was more or less focused on whether or not I got lynched to focus on the specifics. But his motivation makes absolutely no sense. To have a red read on 3 people, vote one, and then fully abandon the other 2, and in fact question whether or not they are TOP TOwN reads leaves me flabbergasted.

That's like looking at 3 murder criminals in a police lineup, admitting they all seem sketchy, and then at the last second going, "oh wait, that guy has a funny looking scar I don't like- he's the murderer! The other ones are so sweet, they used to cut my lawn, you can release them!"

Funny looking scar indeed. You coulda lynched Harry Potter, chuck

#2003

I hate to bring this up because it's probably just harmless dead chat but:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Thanks for the lynch! I can relax a little more easily now.

Thanks for the game sprityo!

Reads to me as someone who probably didn't mind getting the hatchet. I wouldn't excuse anyone on MM as civ.

#2004

nutella wrote:
juliets wrote:nutella, when you are finished with your speedchuck research could you talk about your suspicion of LC? I am a notoriously bad reader of him - I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie. I did skim through his posts and saw he changed to Marmot seemingly on your recommendation which I thought was a good thing but obviously you are seeing something else in him.
A lot of it has to do with connections to other players, including Marmot. When I looked at LC's ISO I got the feeling he's a likely teammate of Marmot's based a few things, and JJJ got the same feeling from Marmot's mentions of LC. I could look back and see if I can pull up specific places that support this feeling, but it's also kind of a general vibe, and also has a lot to do with connections I see to other players who I think could be marmot buddies -- there are several I have considered, but sketchy interactional reads re: LC have been the common denominator between all of them. To be fair, I flip-flopped on LC a fair amount for the first couple days as well, so it might just be that he looks ambiguous and so people have ambiguous feelings toward him, but that's easy for a teammate to hide in, so in my mind it increases the likelihood that I'm right about at least one or two of these possible connections I'm seeing.

Ok great. Don't bother to pull up specifics - I can look for the connections. I have not reviewed JJJ yet so missed that he had a related observation.

Scotty, I take back what I said about you not having any passion. I guess I'm going to have to suck it up and read yesterday's EOD to get the full flavor.

#2005

juliets wrote:
nutella wrote:
juliets wrote:nutella, when you are finished with your speedchuck research could you talk about your suspicion of LC? I am a notoriously bad reader of him - I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie. I did skim through his posts and saw he changed to Marmot seemingly on your recommendation which I thought was a good thing but obviously you are seeing something else in him.
A lot of it has to do with connections to other players, including Marmot. When I looked at LC's ISO I got the feeling he's a likely teammate of Marmot's based a few things, and JJJ got the same feeling from Marmot's mentions of LC. I could look back and see if I can pull up specific places that support this feeling, but it's also kind of a general vibe, and also has a lot to do with connections I see to other players who I think could be marmot buddies -- there are several I have considered, but sketchy interactional reads re: LC have been the common denominator between all of them. To be fair, I flip-flopped on LC a fair amount for the first couple days as well, so it might just be that he looks ambiguous and so people have ambiguous feelings toward him, but that's easy for a teammate to hide in, so in my mind it increases the likelihood that I'm right about at least one or two of these possible connections I'm seeing.
Ok great. Don't bother to pull up specifics - I can look for the connections. I have not reviewed JJJ yet so missed that he had a related observation.

Scotty, I take back what I said about you not having any passion. I guess I'm going to have to suck it up and read yesterday's EOD to get the full flavor.

It's ok. My defense was pretty lackluster yesterday because I got lynched in GoC along the same lines of not being around to defend myself. And still wasn't around to really defend myself when the same thing was seemingly happening over here. So I was just like "fuck it".

i don't know what it is with Montreal but I've had a hell of a time trying to wake up and do shit here. Something in the air? French toast perhaps? Very pretty city though, if y'all ever get to make it out here. I found a crocheting kit today at a boutique so I think Ima start that because YOLO

Ima crochet a scarf and name it Scarfy

#2006

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:Ok, I'm starting here, for reference, I think it's far enough back to get some reads on the MM lynch. It's a bit arbitrary, I almost started a page later, but things were already too "happening" so I went back further. Maybe later I will look back more, but for now, it's there. Some random colouring for separation.

insertnamehere wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

Would you rather Dyslexicon be lynched, or no one be lynched?
I'll take somebody over nobody unless that somebody is me or someone I am 100% certain is town.
I'll state the obvious. You're one of the few active voters who is still up in the air.

I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.
Looking over the posts, I thought this was interesting, because Sloonei did vote MM, and (surely) we did learn something from this day!

Silver and INH are at odds.

Elohcin wrote:Quin, who should I vote for?
Eloh, why did you ask Quin in particular?

Sloonei defends Dyslexicon.

I'm surprised that Silver didn't kill INH last night - he suspected him.

I don't think Quin is bad. Does Quin still suspect Dyslexicon? (I apologize if any of these questions are moot by by the time I post)

The Silver-INH thing almost reads like Silver was trying to protect INH with vig threats. I wouldn't be telling the victim who I plan to vig-kill.

Metalmarsh votes Dyslexicon after a short period of self-voting. I guess his self-voting strategy didn't work out.

Sloonei, how do you feel about Silver and speedchuck mocking your willingness to let Scotty prove himself through his Civvie role?

speedchuck, in that post, you are vehemently against a Dyslexicon lynch. Why so vehement, Mr Vehement?

nutella wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Quin wrote:INH brings up an interesting point in that Dizzy had put Nacho down as her only null read. That seems like a rookie error, which she apparently is not, and given Dizzy's presence in the thread, I think it's likely she'd have spoken out against a Nacho kill for that specific reason.

I agree with INH for what he said about her fluctuating read on 3J. I'm not bothered by drops and rises of one or two tiers on a rainbow list, but to describe it as a roller coaster is correct. My interpretation of 3J's standing in the respective posts looks like this

1 A slight scum, for agreeing with me about the Sorsha discussion and voting 3J
2 Says he has no real scum-reads
3 A rainbow list where 3J is listed as his 2nd top town read. Justification is that he couldn't find anything suspicious about him
4 Slight scum, a cold read.
I still don't see evidence that this is an inconsistent thought process rather than a person simply changing their mind a couple of times. What would be the baddie motivation to change it up like that? Or do you believe Dyslexicon simply lost track of his own read on the most vocal player in the game? That would be a genuine slip.
Tbh, this is the one point that I keep waffling on that could convince me that Dys could be bad, and to me it would entail that JJJ is his teammate. But I'd only be willing to entertain that possibility after determining Marmot's and/or INH's alignment.
Ok, nutella, we have determined MM was bad, so can you update this thought?

Sloonei, you defended Dyslexicon multiple times- why so sure she's Civ?

speedchuck wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:
nutella wrote: lots of linki. Sloon can you give reasons you think MM is town?
No one would vote for themselves that close to the deadline if they were scum?
Clearly a joke, but I'm inclined to agree with you. Also makes INH look better because if they're scum, they somehow aren't worried about buddying. Like, it's all too bold and brazen to be scum.

Still hate the way INH tries to pursue lynches.
This post from speedchuck is suspicious to me. It's pushing the MM=town agenda in a very loose, light way. Fishing for agreement, subtly influencing.

This post from INH flies in the face of me assuming a teammate wouldn't act that way, because it's too... brazen? Just a suspicious post, in hindsight.

.... ok, that's all I have time for right now. I'm looking at this post by speedchuck. Another "don't lynch MM" sentiment.

Quin does still suspect Dyslexicon. Quin has been lazy and hasn't given mafia any attention since yesterday though, so.

On what LC said, Sloonei brought it up later on, but I don't think Sloonei defended Dyslexicon once yesterday. There were instances where he said he wasn't seeing part of a case, but that can't be called a defence.

#2007

Golden wrote:
Quin wrote:Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?
No. I targeted Jay and ended up targeting Fredwood.

Would you agree with me if I said that this indicates that they're very likely not both bad? I don't see a reason marmot would target two of his teammates. One, maybe.

#2008

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:
Quin wrote:Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?
No. I targeted Jay and ended up targeting Fredwood.
Would you agree with me if I said that this indicates that they're very likely not both bad? I don't see a reason marmot would target two of his teammates. One, maybe.

Full confession, I only just went back and read marmot's role now to be able to answer this (I was sneaking in a moment just to see how he flipped yesterday while with the wife's family). So I haven't dwelt on it, but that makes sense to me. Assuming that it was marmot that redirected me.

#2009

Of the two, I'd be more inclined to see Fredwood as bad just because I believe that 3J would have opposed a Nacho kill. It's possible they're both town and marmot just targeted wildly, obviously.

#2010

A quick note before I dive into this marmot analysis: If we are to believe Golden's misdirect claim, and if we assume Jay is town (which I am going to do), then I am inclined to think that Golden's results reflect poorly on Fredwood. If the scum misdirector is targeting town JaggedJimmyJay, I would assume part of his motive is to deflect any potentially beneficial night actions (item deliveries, protection, etc.) onto a teammate. This requires a bit of a leap and I'm not willing to conclude anything from it, but I see it as enough reason to at least begin to speculate about Freddy.

Alternatively, Marmot redirected night actions away from ScummedScummyScay so that he couldn't be ID'd by any cops.

How would you Rate this game?