Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Golden]

Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

You approved of me being in that list. That is evident because you spoke out against Long Con, but not me.

I am not on Jay's list for the shits and giggles. He is looking to vote for one of the four of the people on that list.

Do you deny either of these statements?

Nope. Both of those statements are correct.

[Quin]

And what's more you're doing it pedantically to imply that jay (and by extension, i) would choose from the list arbirtarily and without further thought.

Answer my question - what do you think jay honestly meant - a list for discussion or equally happy with an arbitrary kill of any person in that list?

No I'm not. Whether you and Jay were to choose arbitrarily from the group is irrelevant to what we're talking about.

[Quin]

Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

You approved of me being in that list. That is evident because you spoke out against Long Con, but not me.

I am not on Jay's list for the shits and giggles. He is looking to vote for one of the four of the people on that list.

Do you deny either of these statements?

Nope. Both of those statements are correct.

Then you approved of my being lynched.

[Golden]

And what's more you're doing it pedantically to imply that jay (and by extension, i) would choose from the list arbirtarily and without further thought.

Answer my question - what do you think jay honestly meant - a list for discussion or equally happy with an arbitrary kill of any person in that list?

No I'm not. Whether you and Jay were to choose arbitrarily from the group is irrelevant to what we're talking about.

No it's not. You're the one whose claiming it wasn't a list for discussion.

[Quin]

And what's more you're doing it pedantically to imply that jay (and by extension, i) would choose from the list arbirtarily and without further thought.

Answer my question - what do you think jay honestly meant - a list for discussion or equally happy with an arbitrary kill of any person in that list?

No I'm not. Whether you and Jay were to choose arbitrarily from the group is irrelevant to what we're talking about.

No it's not. You're the one whose claiming it wasn't a list for discussion.

I never claimed that. Show me where I claimed that. Lynching and discussing are never mutually exclusive.

[Golden]

Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

You approved of me being in that list. That is evident because you spoke out against Long Con, but not me.

I am not on Jay's list for the shits and giggles. He is looking to vote for one of the four of the people on that list.

Do you deny either of these statements?

Nope. Both of those statements are correct.

Then you approved of my being lynched.

I approve of you being examined and discussed. At the end of that process, I am open to the possibility that my conclusion could be that I approve of your lynch.

You seem to have an issue with me being ok with you being in the discussion at all.

[Golden]

Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

You said that I am one of four people you approved of being killed today. That has nothing to do with whether or not I think I should be the focus of discussion.

You said it here.

[Quin]

Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

You said that I am one of four people you approved of being killed today. That has nothing to do with whether or not I think I should be the focus of discussion.

You said it here.

That was in response to you throwing shade at me for thinking I'm unimpeachable. Try again.

[Golden]

Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

You said that I am one of four people you approved of being killed today. That has nothing to do with whether or not I think I should be the focus of discussion.

You said it here.

That was in response to you throwing shade at me for thinking I'm unimpeachable. Try again.

I don't care what it's in response to. You're trying to claim that I'm saying 'I approve of your lynch' rather than 'I think you should be in the discussion' and saying the latter is irrelevant.

Answer the question - what do you think jay meant?

[Quin]

Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

You approved of me being in that list. That is evident because you spoke out against Long Con, but not me.

I am not on Jay's list for the shits and giggles. He is looking to vote for one of the four of the people on that list.

Do you deny either of these statements?

Nope. Both of those statements are correct.

Then you approved of my being lynched.

I approve of you being examined and discussed. At the end of that process, I am open to the possibility that my conclusion could be that I approve of your lynch.

You seem to have an issue with me being ok with you being in the discussion at all.

No, I don't. I have an issue with you making a point to sub out Long Con because while you were making a stronger point of reading me as town, and talking about how unlikely it was that I was being disingenuous in my doctor claim.

OK, I may as well say my thought on Quin's entry now.

It seems to me unlikely that Quin genuinely thinks that nutellas is an every day cop, kills nutella, and then proclaims that he thought nutella was an every day cop. I guess Jay's response was, effectively, the wifom - that I'm saying what I'm saying now. But my immediate thought when Quin said 'I thought nutella was an every day cop' was 'motive' - and if a motive is that transparent, it just seems unlikely that he would be so open about it.

Add to that, this quote is ridiculous. And blatant. If it comes from a baddie it is ballsy.

I would personally recommend you just move on from this conversation, though.

These things look town to me.

[Quin]

Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

You said that I am one of four people you approved of being killed today. That has nothing to do with whether or not I think I should be the focus of discussion.

You said it here.

That was in response to you throwing shade at me for thinking I'm unimpeachable. Try again.

I don't care what it's in response to. You're trying to claim that I'm saying 'I approve of your lynch' rather than 'I think you should be in the discussion' and saying the latter is irrelevant.

Answer the question - what do you think jay meant?

You should care. The context is different. And even though I've pointed this fact out, you are still trying to push it as though it's relevant to this argument.

I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

[Quin]

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

[sprityo]

MP07 will be filling in for Eloh. He is of course very busy and is mostly going to just submit night actions

[juliets]

MP07 will be filling in for Eloh. He is of course very busy and is mostly going to just submit night actions

Hopefully he can answer some of the important questions that have arisen about her actions.

[Golden]

I've been out all evening, so haven't caught up (soooo much posting in this game, and I didn't realise how busy I was going to be at the same time.)

A few notes on what I have seen:

1) I think it's quite possible juliets isn't claiming doctor, so lets not presume she is just by implication (unless I've missed her confirm it). There are other reasons she might have to doubt Quin's claim.

2) Jay, it's true I didn't have much of a progression in marmot. One thing you left out is the first reads post (where I had him as town) was so early that I didn't even have a read on nutella yet. I liked his map cover and the way he handled himself around it. I didn't like much else thereafter. I referenced Dune which was a game where he lacked in any real content. That's exactly what he felt like here.

On the day he was lynched, I had to be absent and had very little time to contribute, so it is an accurate observation to say I didn't push my marmot suspicion much but I didn't really push any much (even inh, who I voted for). I wish I could say who I would have voted for or what I might have contributed if I was around, but I can't. I think it would probably have been marmot, but perhaps my participation in the thread would have seen inh lynched and delayed the marmot vote. Who knows.

3) Today is a clusterfuck.

I was intending to do a proper thinking mans rainbow but I haven't really revisited people properly. So I'll do a sort of gth rainbow for now, and then tomorrow Jay can see what's different and ask me about my thought progression.

Jay
Dizzy
Sloonei
Long Con
Quin
juliets
Jack
Fred
Soneji
Eloh
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck

Quin, this is my most recent rainbow, made after those posts about you.

I trust lc more than I trust you. I'm not subbing him out because I'm subbing him out because I really think he's town and I'm less sure about you.

You keep coming at me with different angles:

First it's that I read you based on your claim (false)
Second I had you as strong town all game (false)
Third it's because I 'approve of your lynch (the closest to true based on my words, but still a logical leap)
Fourth it's because I swapped out long con even though I should be reading you stronger (incorrect)

All through this you seem to outright reject and refuse to acknowledge the gap between thinking you should be on the table of discussion and thinking you should be lynched posthaste. And you won't answer a very basic question, I believe because you know the honest answer undermines the fact that you understand that gap full well.

It feels like you just don't like the fact I'm not supporting you unreservedly.

[Golden]

I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

[Quin]

Now Soneji says shoot me. I'm target de jour.

I have a lot of work to get done today so I'm not going to be around to defend myself a whole lot.

Right now, I'd vote Jack. He already went down my rainbow for his approach to Quin at the start of the day. It seemed evident to me that there was a whole lot of inherent town-leaning stuff going on from Quin (and also, evident to me that Quin was hinting at doctor before he claimed, given he confirmed there was a blocker), but Jack pushed him far further than seemed natural even for someone who was suspicious of him (Jay's approach seemed much more in line with genuine suspicion tempered with sensible town play if wrong).

Now, his approach to me appears to be clinging on to the suspect du jour, but he's coming at me with alternate facts.

I don't like it at all.

I'd be happy with that if you didn't choose to reiterate your inherent town read on me afterwards.

[Quin]

I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

I don't do weasel words.

[Golden]

Now Soneji says shoot me. I'm target de jour.

I have a lot of work to get done today so I'm not going to be around to defend myself a whole lot.

Right now, I'd vote Jack. He already went down my rainbow for his approach to Quin at the start of the day. It seemed evident to me that there was a whole lot of inherent town-leaning stuff going on from Quin (and also, evident to me that Quin was hinting at doctor before he claimed, given he confirmed there was a blocker), but Jack pushed him far further than seemed natural even for someone who was suspicious of him (Jay's approach seemed much more in line with genuine suspicion tempered with sensible town play if wrong).

Now, his approach to me appears to be clinging on to the suspect du jour, but he's coming at me with alternate facts.

I don't like it at all.

I'd be happy with that if you didn't choose to reiterate your inherent town read on me afterwards.

No you wouldn't. I explained that this stuff was me seeing it in context with reading jack as bad (something very clear from this post, which is specifically about why I suspected jack). Instead of acknowledging that makes any kind of sense, you just picked new angles and rejected any connection between my read of jack and my read of you.

[Soneji]

I've been gone a while and see that we're down 2 civs and a ???. Hopefully that was a vigikill and a bullseye. I think wilgy was bad.

But then I haven't really read the last 8 or so pages I don't think.

Why was sig lynched again?

Oh, and I have info but I'm not sure how to use it.

This is the second time you bring up something about your role or knowledge you have in a vague manner, first being this:

Lynch: Soneji

He hasn't checked in yet. He's probably out to get us.

Oh, I have an interesting role with a power that is only as useful as I keep talking. I'm questioning whether or not I'll ever use it, since my Chatty Cathy days might be numbered soon

Town will sometimes act like they have a useful role when they don't to draw a night kill on them, this is like the exact opposite of that.

Oh, and I have info but I'm not sure how to use it.

Wait till someone contradicts it then nail them to the wall.

@Sorshakiller/Sloonei:
D1: Four people claimed the map that we were given N0. Discussion occured. INH conflated the mappers with the directions on the poll and made a bit of a hubbub.
Dyslexicon gave us a subtle fakeslip that I, Golden, JJJ, Strawhenge, Long Con, and a few others argued vehemently about. Lots of reads to go about there.
JJJ and Golden got into an interesting spat, then JOH jumped in after to interact in interesting ways.
Fredwood was suspected by some people for no reason, blew up a bit about it. Towny-ish response in most estimations, I think.
Sig was lynched over inconsistency with early posts, general non-towny responses, and probably mostly because of low activity. Golden and JJJ led the lynch for the most part I think. I was an earlyish voter as well. Then others piled on.

Nachomomma was considered town, I think. He was probabvly a mafia kill target.
Wilgy was considered possible scum. He was probably a ??? target. (Not sure)

I recommend looking at the highlights above, at the very least. It's what I remember without a reread. A little vague, but good starting points.

JOH, we have had janitors as roles before, to deny town information. It's rare, and I forget which game I saw it in. I can try to look up the example later.
In more open setups, the whole game is usually janitor'd.
That's my experience.

Everything here is given from a mostly unbiased perspective outside of the Fredwood comments.

Golden pings:

A map sounds useful. It's my kind of item.

Well we better see some trustworthy behavior then.

Meh. Trustworthy behaviour is overrated. I tend to be at my most trustworthy when I'm bad

I do think there is benefit in talking about and trying to come to a sort of consensus, because surely the baddies can all pick and vote for a single one of themselves?

Playfully comforts all our doubts about his scum meta, then talks about mechanics and strategy stuff.

I'm not calling it a slip-up, but it is as Golden said, a series of unfortunate events. I'm just open to the possibility of it being a fictional one.

I think you have a tendency to suspect me, but here is a golden rule you can trust me to live by.

Even when bad, I lie very very rarely. I don't create fictional stories. I heavily discourage teammates from doing it as well. Why? Because all it can do is lead to you getting caught in the lie. It's just a really poor strategy. There's a reason my baddie game is relatively successful, and it's because I leave as few threads to tug on as I possibly can.

Lies are reserved for things that can create a significant game advantage (and even then, you need to feel like its a safe lie), or for fake reads.

Having said that, I do see the advantage in lying to protect others from nks, as a civilian.

The WIFOM is palpable in this post. This broke my sirengif.

I think his talk of not slipping up here comes off worse when you think of his reaction to the Dys fake slip, when to the best of my knowledge he knows that Dys is also a skilled player and unlikely to make such a slip. Might speak more to a big ego but it comes off as opportunistic.

I have a feeling Silver is doing a lot of showing and could be putting on a show. I don't read him/her as town right now.

I wanted to suspect Golden or JJJ or something for talking a bunch, since it's always a nightmare of mine in trying to ISO them. I ain't nailing them on anything since I'm rather indisposed in Canada right now with limited wifi, but I feel as though some of the big talkers are circumventing. If my dad talked all the time about his beliefs when I was a child, I'd probably be in Juvie by 13 for doing something dangerous. I wouldn't know better.

Don't worry, my parents got divorced early on so I rarely see him now.



But hey, ya know? I think the most suspicious person here is Elo. reasons easily assumable.

Lynch: Elohcin

So, lynch people because you don't want to read their posts? Granted, reading through D2 now is easier that I don't have to scrutinize every JJJ post but their high posts count aren't a reason to be suspicious of them. To top off a post where you ask others to be suspicious of high posters, you vote for an inactive, how lovely.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 78#p335178

This post is interesting because it contradicts itself? It, at the beginning of the post, says that logic points to Dizzy doing an on-purpose fakeslip.
Then says later in the thread that it is an accident.
Then I think they ended the day on Dizzy, despite saying they felt good about Diz in the same post.

Maybe Marmot just didn't want to be on SIG?

I don't know. Most of what bothers me about marmot's posts probably have to do with their playstyle/his low activity thanks to other games. Nothing particularly useful, I think. Would lynch scotty over marmot. Unless contradicting themselves in order to seem agreeable and unsure is a Meta-Marmot-Metal-Marsh-Mafia-Move.

This post from fairly early on D2 looks good on speedy not being part of the Hive.

I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

Preemptive defenses make my skin crawl.

Okay I've sat on this long enough that we've seen people comment on Wigly and others avoid doing so, despite my request.

I killed Wigly, and unfortunately he was town. Sorry Wigly, but there was really nothing constructive at all from you on D1 when I ISOed you and i figured after Sig turned up town that taking out another suspicious D1 player would give us the most info on the reads of others towards you D1 as I was really hoping I was right about you being scum.

How do you know he was town? Since you're being so forthcoming... what is your role exactly?

This is a very intriguing reveal. Not sure if it's true, or a strategy of some sort.

Some role fishing here from LC. Silver gave the info that he killed Wilgy and that Wilgy was town, outside of maybe elaborating some on why the role was janitored. Jumps quickly to the possibility that this could be a "strategy" of some sort, leaving out any indication of whether he thinks its a mafia or town strategy.


zzz...keep getting distracted by PMs on NF for Clash of the Hosts.

[Golden]

I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

I don't do weasel words.

Then answer the question straight. What do you believe jay meant - a pool for discussion or a pool to arbitrarily lynch in?

[Quin]

I've been out all evening, so haven't caught up (soooo much posting in this game, and I didn't realise how busy I was going to be at the same time.)

A few notes on what I have seen:

1) I think it's quite possible juliets isn't claiming doctor, so lets not presume she is just by implication (unless I've missed her confirm it). There are other reasons she might have to doubt Quin's claim.

2) Jay, it's true I didn't have much of a progression in marmot. One thing you left out is the first reads post (where I had him as town) was so early that I didn't even have a read on nutella yet. I liked his map cover and the way he handled himself around it. I didn't like much else thereafter. I referenced Dune which was a game where he lacked in any real content. That's exactly what he felt like here.

On the day he was lynched, I had to be absent and had very little time to contribute, so it is an accurate observation to say I didn't push my marmot suspicion much but I didn't really push any much (even inh, who I voted for). I wish I could say who I would have voted for or what I might have contributed if I was around, but I can't. I think it would probably have been marmot, but perhaps my participation in the thread would have seen inh lynched and delayed the marmot vote. Who knows.

3) Today is a clusterfuck.

I was intending to do a proper thinking mans rainbow but I haven't really revisited people properly. So I'll do a sort of gth rainbow for now, and then tomorrow Jay can see what's different and ask me about my thought progression.

Jay
Dizzy
Sloonei
Long Con
Quin
juliets
Jack
Fred
Soneji
Eloh
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck

Quin, this is my most recent rainbow, made after those posts about you.

I trust lc more than I trust you. I'm not subbing him out because I'm subbing him out because I really think he's town and I'm less sure about you.

You keep coming at me with different angles:

First it's that I read you based on your claim (false) Are you trying to tell me that believing my doctor claim is genuine did not come with a town read?
Second I had you as strong town all game (false) Your non existent posts are not proof of this.
Third it's because I 'approve of your lynch (the closest to true based on my words, but still a logical leap)You did.
Fourth it's because I swapped out long con even though I should be reading you stronger (incorrect) See #2.

All through this you seem to outright reject and refuse to acknowledge the gap between thinking you should be on the table of discussion and thinking you should be lynched posthaste. And you won't answer a very basic question, I believe because you know the honest answer undermines the fact that you understand that gap full well.

It feels like you just don't like the fact I'm not supporting you unreservedly.

[Quin]

I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

I don't do weasel words.

Then answer the question straight. What do you believe jay meant - a pool for discussion or a pool to arbitrarily lynch in?

Lynching and discussing are not mutually exclusive.

[Golden]

Soneji - apparently you don't know the difference between lying and the truth. I'm prone to slip because I don't lie often, not in spite of it.

[Quin]

Golden, you want me to say either 'The list was meant strictly for discussing' or 'A list to arbitrarily lynch in'. None of these are true. I don't like your pushing that my answer is a non-answer.

[sprityo]

I don't know how pE determined the ordering or giving of roles.

I have a document that reveals how roles were assigned once game ends

[Quin]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

[Golden]

I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

I don't do weasel words.

Then answer the question straight. What do you believe jay meant - a pool for discussion or a pool to arbitrarily lynch in?

Lynching and discussing are not mutually exclusive.

Ok, have it your way.

vote quin

I don't know if it will end up here, but this is ridiculous. It feels to me like you're mad you lost someone you thought you had pocketed, and you're willing to take any way out.

You can't accuse me of wanting you dead but refuse to acknowledge the gap between discussion and lynching. The two are obviously not mutually exclusive (when's the last time you lynched someone you didn't discuss?) but the unwillingness to talk about or admit that you were wilfully interpreting jays list as a lynch list and not a list of people that deserve to be looked at it troubling.

[Golden]

Golden, you want me to say either 'The list was meant strictly for discussing' or 'A list to arbitrarily lynch in'. None of these are true. I don't like your pushing that my answer is a non-answer.

It's impossible that neither are true. What is the third option? That covers literally every possible intentvas far as I can tell.

[Golden]

Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

[Quin]

Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

[Quin]

Golden

[Golden]

Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

Bullshit. Discussion leads to reads, reads lead to a lynch. But the lynch is not arbitrary, it's considered.

But you want everyone to buy that saying I want you discussed is the exact same thing as saying I approve of your lynch, and you refuse to acknowledge that isn't true.

[Quin]

Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

Bullshit. Discussion leads to reads, reads lead to a lynch. But the lynch is not arbitrary, it's considered.

But you want everyone to buy that saying I want you discussed is the exact same thing as saying I approve of your lynch, and you refuse to acknowledge that isn't true.

It is. That was a lynch shortlist list. Denying it is a joke.

[Soneji]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

[Quin]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Why?] aubergine

[Golden]

Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

Bullshit. Discussion leads to reads, reads lead to a lynch. But the lynch is not arbitrary, it's considered.

But you want everyone to buy that saying I want you discussed is the exact same thing as saying I approve of your lynch, and you refuse to acknowledge that isn't true.

It is. That was a lynch shortlist list. Denying it is a joke.

Yes, it was a lynch shortlist. I've never denied it. What I'm denying is that 'you should be on a lynch shortlist for discussing which of those people we should lynch' and 'you should be lynched' are the same thing, they're not.

[speedchuck]

I'm actually bothered by Golden's role mechanically. I have a light scumread based on mechanics, as I said earlier.

As for his actions, I had a townread way back when, and the current crap looks way too much like Jack/Quin for me to read scum in it.

[juliets]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

[Quin]

Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

Bullshit. Discussion leads to reads, reads lead to a lynch. But the lynch is not arbitrary, it's considered.

But you want everyone to buy that saying I want you discussed is the exact same thing as saying I approve of your lynch, and you refuse to acknowledge that isn't true.

It is. That was a lynch shortlist list. Denying it is a joke.

Yes, it was a lynch shortlist. I've never denied it. What I'm denying is that 'you should be on a lynch shortlist for discussing which of those people we should lynch' and 'you should be lynched' are the same thing, they're not.

I never said they were the same. You're pushing that I think that, which isn't true.

[Quin]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

[juliets]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

[Fredwood]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Sorry, got distracted by Planet Earth II...the Blue Whale is fucking amazing.

His credibility took a hit from my previous lists, I knocked him down from moderate town on Days 1-3 to Light Town today because the lack of watching. He addressed it, there really isn't more he can say on the subject, but it did weaken my case for him.

As for this interaction. I'm not sure. I said I'd need to be convinced of your lynch over the other targets, maybe he has the same feeling about Long Con?

This feels like a semantics based argument rather then a "slip" argument, so I'm don't know if it impacts my read one way or another. I'll read through it again, but most of the argument is about the usage of specific words, you guys really haven't agreed on the content, let alone an interpretation.

[Quin]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

[Quin]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Sorry, got distracted by Planet Earth II...the Blue Whale is fucking amazing.

His credibility took a hit from my previous lists, I knocked him down from moderate town on Days 1-3 to Light Town today because the lack of watching. He addressed it, there really isn't more he can say on the subject, but it did weaken my case for him.

As for this interaction. I'm not sure. I said I'd need to be convinced of your lynch over the other targets, maybe he has the same feeling about Long Con?

This feels like a semantics based argument rather then a "slip" argument, so I'm don't know if it impacts my read one way or another. I'll read through it again, but most of the argument is about the usage of specific words, you guys really haven't agreed on the content, let alone an interpretation.

If you want a semantics-based argument between us, read A Series of Unfortunate Events Mafia

[speedchuck]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

[Fredwood]

I'm actually bothered by Golden's role mechanically. I have a light scumread based on mechanics, as I said earlier.

As for his actions, I had a townread way back when, and the current crap looks way too much like Jack/Quin for me to read scum in it.

I'll disagree. Jack and Quin was a claim based argument that exploded from there.

This one is less content intensive because most of the back in forth is "I never said that, Show me where I said that." It's like both need to argue but can't figure out what they want to argue about.

[juliets]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

Then, as I said last night, I don't think you are telling the truth about your claim Quin unless the theory JJJ put forth last night is true.

[Soneji]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Why?] aubergine

[VOTE: @Sloonei on Golden : I would say that talking about ones scum meta as a response to suspicion is generally something mafia do more than town. Especially when one is touting themselves as too careful/skilled to scumslip in certain ways, it's a method of intimidation. Golden going into his scum meta there just felt straight unnecessary.

Later Golden gives his opinion on whose more likely to have killed Nacho then dismisses that info as something he doesn't believe as worthwhile. Why even remark on it if you don't think it is a viable method of scumhunting? Since he agreed with both Jay and Jack on their NK analysis, then dismissed the info as useful, it comes off as buddying mixed with fence-sitting.


Still reading up on phone.] aubergine

[VOTE: Golden pings:] aubergine

[VOTE: A map sounds useful. It's my kind of item.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Well we better see some trustworthy behavior then. ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Meh. Trustworthy behaviour is overrated. I tend to be at my most trustworthy when I'm bad

I do think there is benefit in talking about and trying to come to a sort of consensus, because surely the baddies can all pick and vote for a single one of themselves?] aubergine

[VOTE: Playfully comforts all our doubts about his scum meta, then talks about mechanics and strategy stuff.] aubergine

[VOTE: I'm not calling it a slip-up, but it is as Golden said, a series of unfortunate events. I'm just open to the possibility of it being a fictional one.] aubergine

[VOTE:

I think you have a tendency to suspect me, but here is a golden rule you can trust me to live by.

Even when bad, I lie very very rarely. I don't create fictional stories. I heavily discourage teammates from doing it as well. Why? Because all it can do is lead to you getting caught in the lie. It's just a really poor strategy. There's a reason my baddie game is relatively successful, and it's because I leave as few threads to tug on as I possibly can.

Lies are reserved for things that can create a significant game advantage (and even then, you need to feel like its a safe lie), or for fake reads.

Having said that, I do see the advantage in lying to protect others from nks, as a civilian.] aubergine

[VOTE: The WIFOM is palpable in this post. This broke my sirengif.] aubergine

[VOTE:
I think his talk of not slipping up here comes off worse when you think of his reaction to the Dys fake slip, when to the best of my knowledge he knows that Dys is also a skilled player and unlikely to make such a slip. Might speak more to a big ego but it comes off as opportunistic.] aubergine

[VOTE: I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Preemptive defenses make my skin crawl.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Those plus don't like his vote on sig d1 that started that train, he has been probing peoples responses/reads to things that he should be giving his own opinion on first to seemingly test the waters and the faults in his watcher claim.] aubergine

[speedchuck]

I'm actually bothered by Golden's role mechanically. I have a light scumread based on mechanics, as I said earlier.

As for his actions, I had a townread way back when, and the current crap looks way too much like Jack/Quin for me to read scum in it.

I'll disagree. Jack and Quin was a claim based argument that exploded from there.

This one is less content intensive because most of the back in forth is "I never said that, Show me where I said that." It's like both need to argue but can't figure out what they want to argue about.

Pretty sure Jack and Quin had some of this kind of stuff too.

I mean, Jack went from agreeing with Quin to voting him and disbelieving the claim before it even happened.

Early on:
"I think we should drop the discussion" - Quin
"Quin doesn't want to talk about how scummy he is" - Jack
"As if that's the only interpretation of that"
"Nyan"
etc.

Quin seems to attract these things.