Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Quin]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

[juliets]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

[Fredwood]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Sorry, got distracted by Planet Earth II...the Blue Whale is fucking amazing.

His credibility took a hit from my previous lists, I knocked him down from moderate town on Days 1-3 to Light Town today because the lack of watching. He addressed it, there really isn't more he can say on the subject, but it did weaken my case for him.

As for this interaction. I'm not sure. I said I'd need to be convinced of your lynch over the other targets, maybe he has the same feeling about Long Con?

This feels like a semantics based argument rather then a "slip" argument, so I'm don't know if it impacts my read one way or another. I'll read through it again, but most of the argument is about the usage of specific words, you guys really haven't agreed on the content, let alone an interpretation.

[Quin]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

[Quin]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Sorry, got distracted by Planet Earth II...the Blue Whale is fucking amazing.

His credibility took a hit from my previous lists, I knocked him down from moderate town on Days 1-3 to Light Town today because the lack of watching. He addressed it, there really isn't more he can say on the subject, but it did weaken my case for him.

As for this interaction. I'm not sure. I said I'd need to be convinced of your lynch over the other targets, maybe he has the same feeling about Long Con?

This feels like a semantics based argument rather then a "slip" argument, so I'm don't know if it impacts my read one way or another. I'll read through it again, but most of the argument is about the usage of specific words, you guys really haven't agreed on the content, let alone an interpretation.

If you want a semantics-based argument between us, read A Series of Unfortunate Events Mafia

[speedchuck]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

[Fredwood]

I'm actually bothered by Golden's role mechanically. I have a light scumread based on mechanics, as I said earlier.

As for his actions, I had a townread way back when, and the current crap looks way too much like Jack/Quin for me to read scum in it.

I'll disagree. Jack and Quin was a claim based argument that exploded from there.

This one is less content intensive because most of the back in forth is "I never said that, Show me where I said that." It's like both need to argue but can't figure out what they want to argue about.

[juliets]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

Then, as I said last night, I don't think you are telling the truth about your claim Quin unless the theory JJJ put forth last night is true.

[Soneji]

Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Why?] aubergine

[VOTE: @Sloonei on Golden : I would say that talking about ones scum meta as a response to suspicion is generally something mafia do more than town. Especially when one is touting themselves as too careful/skilled to scumslip in certain ways, it's a method of intimidation. Golden going into his scum meta there just felt straight unnecessary.

Later Golden gives his opinion on whose more likely to have killed Nacho then dismisses that info as something he doesn't believe as worthwhile. Why even remark on it if you don't think it is a viable method of scumhunting? Since he agreed with both Jay and Jack on their NK analysis, then dismissed the info as useful, it comes off as buddying mixed with fence-sitting.


Still reading up on phone.] aubergine

[VOTE: Golden pings:] aubergine

[VOTE: A map sounds useful. It's my kind of item.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Well we better see some trustworthy behavior then. ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Meh. Trustworthy behaviour is overrated. I tend to be at my most trustworthy when I'm bad

I do think there is benefit in talking about and trying to come to a sort of consensus, because surely the baddies can all pick and vote for a single one of themselves?] aubergine

[VOTE: Playfully comforts all our doubts about his scum meta, then talks about mechanics and strategy stuff.] aubergine

[VOTE: I'm not calling it a slip-up, but it is as Golden said, a series of unfortunate events. I'm just open to the possibility of it being a fictional one.] aubergine

[VOTE:

I think you have a tendency to suspect me, but here is a golden rule you can trust me to live by.

Even when bad, I lie very very rarely. I don't create fictional stories. I heavily discourage teammates from doing it as well. Why? Because all it can do is lead to you getting caught in the lie. It's just a really poor strategy. There's a reason my baddie game is relatively successful, and it's because I leave as few threads to tug on as I possibly can.

Lies are reserved for things that can create a significant game advantage (and even then, you need to feel like its a safe lie), or for fake reads.

Having said that, I do see the advantage in lying to protect others from nks, as a civilian.] aubergine

[VOTE: The WIFOM is palpable in this post. This broke my sirengif.] aubergine

[VOTE:
I think his talk of not slipping up here comes off worse when you think of his reaction to the Dys fake slip, when to the best of my knowledge he knows that Dys is also a skilled player and unlikely to make such a slip. Might speak more to a big ego but it comes off as opportunistic.] aubergine

[VOTE: I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Preemptive defenses make my skin crawl.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Those plus don't like his vote on sig d1 that started that train, he has been probing peoples responses/reads to things that he should be giving his own opinion on first to seemingly test the waters and the faults in his watcher claim.] aubergine

[speedchuck]

I'm actually bothered by Golden's role mechanically. I have a light scumread based on mechanics, as I said earlier.

As for his actions, I had a townread way back when, and the current crap looks way too much like Jack/Quin for me to read scum in it.

I'll disagree. Jack and Quin was a claim based argument that exploded from there.

This one is less content intensive because most of the back in forth is "I never said that, Show me where I said that." It's like both need to argue but can't figure out what they want to argue about.

Pretty sure Jack and Quin had some of this kind of stuff too.

I mean, Jack went from agreeing with Quin to voting him and disbelieving the claim before it even happened.

Early on:
"I think we should drop the discussion" - Quin
"Quin doesn't want to talk about how scummy he is" - Jack
"As if that's the only interpretation of that"
"Nyan"
etc.

Quin seems to attract these things.

[Fredwood]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

If they were alternating nights there would be a less then 0 chance but yeah, I'd never put two doctors in any of my games even with hidden interactions we haven't seen.

[Golden]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

As far as I'm concerned, clusterfuck means anything goes, so I see no reason why redundancy couldn't be possible within town roles. Neat fits feel more believable, but if I were designing a game like this I'd probably want loose ends and overlaps that make claims seem less believable.

[Strawhenge]

Golden is now firmly in the greenish area of the spectrum for me. That scummy gut-read passed like a bit of overdone potato. I'm curious about your continuing case against me. I can't promise promptness with my answers, but I can answer questions if you have them.

Quin, in the words of a wise and wild individual, 'ur bad.' And soneji is your homie.

I'm down to lynch either of them. I'll place a placeholder vote on Quin

[Soneji]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

I come from a place where the even/odd night thing with power roles is pretty rare. If there were two doctors, one even night and one odd night, the balance/intrigue there would be that you have two chances to get someone good at picking doctor targets and the mafia hitting one of them doesn't take away your doctor protects entirely.

Can't say how likely it is given this game is in a weird place between The Syndicate and Narutoforums in terms of power.

[Quin]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

Then, as I said last night, I don't think you are telling the truth about your claim Quin unless the theory JJJ put forth last night is true.

Well, I am. All I can say is 'was all of this really necessary just so I could fake doctor claim?'

Would I make it obvious in my posts that I thought nutella was the cop on Day 2, not kill her that night and risk a cop check, kill her the next night just so I could go back and point out that I thought she was the cop, make a blatant meh moment in having contradictory reads on nutella and claiming doctor after shit hit the fan?

Come on.

[Golden]

PS I don't like that I spent my whole lunch in discussion with Quin either. I'm going to try to move on to other things.

But I just have a big issue in that it felt like a big agenda to me. Like Quin felt like he could seize upon an inconsistency and got lost in an inability to accept my response.

That's all I'll say for now. I'm looking forward to other, not-me perspectives. Especially Jay. I don't like that this happened so close to end of day, it's hard for me to get objective distance.

[Fredwood]

I'm actually bothered by Golden's role mechanically. I have a light scumread based on mechanics, as I said earlier.

As for his actions, I had a townread way back when, and the current crap looks way too much like Jack/Quin for me to read scum in it.

I'll disagree. Jack and Quin was a claim based argument that exploded from there.

This one is less content intensive because most of the back in forth is "I never said that, Show me where I said that." It's like both need to argue but can't figure out what they want to argue about.

Pretty sure Jack and Quin had some of this kind of stuff too.

I mean, Jack went from agreeing with Quin to voting him and disbelieving the claim before it even happened.

Early on:
"I think we should drop the discussion" - Quin
"Quin doesn't want to talk about how scummy he is" - Jack
"As if that's the only interpretation of that"
"Nyan"
etc.

Quin seems to attract these things.

I'll agree there was some elements of that argument to it, but at the very least I understood the impetus. Maybe my cognitive perception is off, but there isn't a clear point they are arguing aside from an interpretation of JJJ's post.

[Golden]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

I'd expect one was bad, if they are literally that identical.

[juliets]

Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

Then, as I said last night, I don't think you are telling the truth about your claim Quin unless the theory JJJ put forth last night is true.

Well, I am. All I can say is 'was all of this really necessary just so I could fake doctor claim?'

Would I make it obvious in my posts that I thought nutella was the cop on Day 2, not kill her that night and risk a cop check, kill her the next night just so I could go back and point out that I thought she was the cop, make a blatant meh moment in having contradictory reads on nutella and claiming doctor after shit hit the fan?

Come on.

I don't know Quin, would you? Because from where I sit either there are two doctors on the odd nights in the civ alignment or your claim is false. And I know I've said it already but I'll say it again, I am not claiming doctor.

[Quin]

No, I wouldn't. My brain would implode arguing that level of WIFOM. Does the second redirecting role that exists factor in to that conclusion?

[juliets]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

[Golden]

Golden is now firmly in the greenish area of the spectrum for me. That scummy gut-read passed like a bit of overdone potato. I'm curious about your continuing case against me. I can't promise promptness with my answers, but I can answer questions if you have them.

I'm also curious about it. It's gut feeling, and for me it's definitely more a case of wanting to find time to explore your post history and feeling like you are a bit of an enigma in this game than already knowing why I feel this way. Same thing with Soneji.

[juliets]

No, I wouldn't. My brain would implode arguing that level of WIFOM. Does the second redirecting role that exists factor in to that conclusion?

No, it doesn't.

[Quin]

PS I don't like that I spent my whole lunch in discussion with Quin either. I'm going to try to move on to other things.

But I just have a big issue in that it felt like a big agenda to me. Like Quin felt like he could seize upon an inconsistency and got lost in an inability to accept my response.

That's all I'll say for now. I'm looking forward to other, not-me perspectives. Especially Jay. I don't like that this happened so close to end of day, it's hard for me to get objective distance.

When you ended things like that in ASOUE, I wanted to lynch you so bad. If you're civ this time too, you just don't understand me at all.

[Golden]

PS I don't like that I spent my whole lunch in discussion with Quin either. I'm going to try to move on to other things.

But I just have a big issue in that it felt like a big agenda to me. Like Quin felt like he could seize upon an inconsistency and got lost in an inability to accept my response.

That's all I'll say for now. I'm looking forward to other, not-me perspectives. Especially Jay. I don't like that this happened so close to end of day, it's hard for me to get objective distance.

When you ended things like that in ASOUE, I wanted to lynch you so bad. If you're civ this time too, you just don't understand me at all.

Or maybe I do. You were never inherently town aligned in ASOUE. What are you referring to with 'when things ended like that'?

[Quin]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

[Strawhenge]

Oops, RYM reflexes. I forgot we're emboldening and reddening the votes.

Voting Quin

[Golden]

@speed - what bothers you mechanically about my claim?

[Quin]

PS I don't like that I spent my whole lunch in discussion with Quin either. I'm going to try to move on to other things.

But I just have a big issue in that it felt like a big agenda to me. Like Quin felt like he could seize upon an inconsistency and got lost in an inability to accept my response.

That's all I'll say for now. I'm looking forward to other, not-me perspectives. Especially Jay. I don't like that this happened so close to end of day, it's hard for me to get objective distance.

When you ended things like that in ASOUE, I wanted to lynch you so bad. If you're civ this time too, you just don't understand me at all.

Or maybe I do. You were never inherently town aligned in ASOUE. What are you referring to with 'when things ended like that'?

I was completely pro-town. That doesn't have a lot of weight right now, but you should get it after my flip.

You ended things like this too, making some comment about how I've 'lost my own argument'. It's just completely false.

[Scotty]

Hey all, sorry once again, I've been off the grid.

I'm like 4 pages behind. I just got to the part where Sloonei shot Jack. That's a real bummer at the result.

I'm gonna have to put in a vote and scram before EoD. Show starts in 5. Where we at in votals? I'd be down with a Soneji lynch.

[Scotty]

Lynch Soneji

I'll try and Check again when I have downtime in act 2

[juliets]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

There are two things that could be true here and you not be lying: 1.) it's a redundancy. 2.) my lack of experience with this type of game set up is precluding me from seeing a way what I know to be true and you being an odd night doctor could simultaneously be true. I tried to clarify what I know to be true further with the hosts but as I said earlier today, they said it would be cheating for them to clarify any further than they've done.

[Quin]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

There are two things that could be true here and you not be lying: 1.) it's a redundancy. 2.) my lack of experience with this type of game set up is precluding me from seeing a way what I know to be true and you being an odd night doctor could simultaneously be true. I tried to clarify what I know to be true further with the hosts but as I said earlier today, they said it would be cheating for them to clarify any further than they've done.

If you don't go balls to the wall against this second doctor after my flip, you are bad.

[Golden]

Theory:

Quin is mafia odd night doctor. It was intended as a mechanic against the odd night vig, but that's gone. Mafia odd night doctor doesn't prevent mafia kill, so the mafia risk my watching nutella in the hope that, if I do, I hard clear Quin's doctor claim.

[Fredwood]

See, this is where my brain breaks.

I get Quin's argument that it is incredibly dumb way to claim doctor if he wasn't. It is a popular gambit, but the fact that we have an info that the claim is redundant, specific to the day...

Which is more likely, Quin made a huge ass mistake, or are our mechanics meta balance arguments false?

I've existed my entire mafia career to follow the information until the information is proved to be incorrect, but while I believe juliets knows of another odd night doctor, we're lynching on meta based on limited information, or at least I would be. I'm much less comfortable with that, because I really can't think of a good reason for scum to play the claim like they did (Goes back to my read on Dys on day 1 that ironically Quin attacked me for).


Am I FUCKING WIFOM???? I DONT KNOW WHAT IT MEANS...INCONCIEVABLE.

[juliets]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

There are two things that could be true here and you not be lying: 1.) it's a redundancy. 2.) my lack of experience with this type of game set up is precluding me from seeing a way what I know to be true and you being an odd night doctor could simultaneously be true. I tried to clarify what I know to be true further with the hosts but as I said earlier today, they said it would be cheating for them to clarify any further than they've done.

If you don't go balls to the wall against this second doctor after my flip, you are bad.

I don't understand what this means. As I said, it could be that my inexperience with this set up is blinding me to an alternative I can't think of.

linki

[Quin]

Theory:

Quin is mafia odd night doctor. It was intended as a mechanic against the odd night vig, but that's gone. Mafia odd night doctor doesn't prevent mafia kill, so the mafia risk my watching nutella in the hope that, if I do, I hard clear Quin's doctor claim.

lol

[Fredwood]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

There are two things that could be true here and you not be lying: 1.) it's a redundancy. 2.) my lack of experience with this type of game set up is precluding me from seeing a way what I know to be true and you being an odd night doctor could simultaneously be true. I tried to clarify what I know to be true further with the hosts but as I said earlier today, they said it would be cheating for them to clarify any further than they've done.

If you don't go balls to the wall against this second doctor after my flip, you are bad.

I don't understand what this means. As I said, it could be that my inexperience with this set up is blinding me to an alternative I can't think of.

linki

Quin is saying that because of your stance that there can be no redundancies, and Quin autopsies as the town odd night doctor, that then you must lynch the town odd night doctor that you are claiming to know the existence of, because the same argument would hold true for them.

[Soneji]

juliets, are you more concerned with the likelihood of two town doctors pointing to Quin being scum or Golden not watching obvious mafia kill targets?

[Quin]

If I don't protect, and instead kill nutella in the hopes that you watch her, I'm the only person who's going to show up. How pointless.

[Golden]

If I don't protect, and instead kill nutella in the hopes that you watch her, I'm the only person who's going to show up. How pointless.

That's not what I said.

[Sloonei]

Theory:

Quin is mafia odd night doctor. It was intended as a mechanic against the odd night vig, but that's gone. Mafia odd night doctor doesn't prevent mafia kill, so the mafia risk my watching nutella in the hope that, if I do, I hard clear Quin's doctor claim.

Work Sloonei likes this post.

[Fredwood]

If I don't protect, and instead kill nutella in the hopes that you watch her, I'm the only person who's going to show up. How pointless.

That's not what I said.

YAY, here we go again!!!

[Quin]

If I don't protect, and instead kill nutella in the hopes that you watch her, I'm the only person who's going to show up. How pointless.

That's not what I said.

Then explain.

[Quin]

No, I get it. A doctor that can't block their own kill.


lol

[Quin]

This is tinfoil. This right here.

[Strawhenge]

No, I get it. A doctor that can't block their own kill.


lol

Dunno if you're being sarcastic because them letters ain't orangelike, but...aren't doctors of any alignment usually unable to self-target?

[juliets]

And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

There are two things that could be true here and you not be lying: 1.) it's a redundancy. 2.) my lack of experience with this type of game set up is precluding me from seeing a way what I know to be true and you being an odd night doctor could simultaneously be true. I tried to clarify what I know to be true further with the hosts but as I said earlier today, they said it would be cheating for them to clarify any further than they've done.

If you don't go balls to the wall against this second doctor after my flip, you are bad.

I don't understand what this means. As I said, it could be that my inexperience with this set up is blinding me to an alternative I can't think of.

linki

Quin is saying that because of your stance that there can be no redundancies, and Quin autopsies as the town odd night doctor, that then you must lynch the town odd night doctor that you are claiming to know the existence of, because the same argument would hold true for them.

Oh ok, thanks for the explanation. Actually, my stance isn't that there can be no redundancies. I think Soneji and Golden said in a CF game anything is possible including overlap that screws with claiming. So, that looks like it's possible.

Soneji, I have been more concerned with whether or not Quin is falsifying his claim because the Golden stuff just came up this afternoon and I've not had a chance to read over Golden's posts. The Quin information has been with me since yesterday when I clarified a point with the hosts.

If people for the most part feel like Quin is genuine then I think it's safest to assume there is redundancy or there's an alternative I'm not thinking of because of my lack of experience with this. I don't want someone to be lynched based on my lack of experience.

[Quin]

No, I get it. A doctor that can't block their own kill.


lol

Dunno if you're being sarcastic because them letters ain't orangelike, but...aren't doctors of any alignment usually unable to self-target?

He's saying this in relation to the nutella kill, so not sure what self-targeting has to do with it.

[Golden]

If I don't protect, and instead kill nutella in the hopes that you watch her, I'm the only person who's going to show up. How pointless.

That's not what I said.

Then explain.

I'd see you and the killer, in theory.