STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

#441

Matt F (why did no one tell me I've been forgetting to underline these?)

Also known as Mr. Death Star, apparently. More than one person thought I overreacted to his enthusiasm for going there on Day 0. I shall now punish them by quoting EVERY. SINGLE. POST where he mentioned it.

Matt F wrote:Yo

I'm going to be adventurous and pick Death Star

Linki - Nice Zebra

Matt F wrote:Why isn't everyone picking Death Star? I heard they have free wifi now so obvi the best option.

Matt F wrote:
Enrique wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Enrique wrote:
Matt F wrote:Why isn't everyone picking Death Star? I heard they have free wifi now so obvi the best option.

what r u hidin from us matty
Yeah, he seems pretty excited about it.
what if his goal was to make us not vote for it

i mean i never intended to anyway but what if
Who's hiding? I'm here to kill some bad guys. Bad guys are at the Death Star.

I am, indeed. Let's go!!

Then I am currently doing a wonderful job. But no, really, Death Star sounds amazing. Can you imagine the view?

lol @ Floyd

Matt F wrote:A bunch of innocents are obliterated on Alderaan, and we are currently leading the town there?

*record scratch*
Okay wait a second. WHAT? Speaking as someone who voted for the Death Star myself, I voted for it because I wanted to see what would happen. I like my mafia flair unpredictable, explosive, and deadly. I was looking forward to the chaos that would come from going to the Death Star since it seemed more likely that some shit would go down if we went directly there on the first day, than if we went anywhere else. Yet you voted for it as well and have the nerve to object to going to a place that might result in some chaos? Uh, HELLO. You voted for the fucking DEATH STAR. Are you really in a position to object to any other location for fucking safety reasons?

Or maybe that was the point, and this was a joke, and I just wasted my time getting worked up about it. Please respond and let me know. Anyway, back to the Death Star binge.

Matt F wrote:
Black Rock wrote:I just saw this game started.
FYI the Death Star has a SUPER LASER that can destroy planets. I know how much you like your lasers.

Matt F wrote:Why are we being mean to Dragon? He voted Death Star

Matt F wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Matt F wrote:Why are we being mean to Dragon? He voted Death Star
You're taking this Death Star enthusiasm to an uncomfortable extreme, Matt. Are you saying everyone who voted for the Death Star should be ignored when they appear suspicious?
Uncomfortable extreme? C'mon, I was just havin' a little fun Zeebs.

Matt F wrote:I don't think my pushing for Death Star was off. I was surprised there weren't more votes there anyway. Ask anyone on the street, "Would you rather visit Tatooine or the Death Star?", 10 to 1 most peeps are sayin' Death Star.

And yes, I completely agree Sorsha Day 0. :P

Matt F wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Matt F wrote:Zebra hasn't shouted in all caps yet.

Matt F, what's on your mind? I can't recall anything you've said, which is either due to the fact that I'm sick and not absorbing the thread as I read it, or because you haven't talked enough yet. Either way... throw some stuff at me.
Most of my posts have been about Day 0 and really wantin' to get up to that Death Star. Nobody wanted to go though (yup, I'm eyein' all 20 some players who didn't vote for Death Star)

I wasn't necessarily joking with that last post of mine, either. The games I've seen of her, she's been all civ and each time she gets really intense (which is a good thing, IMO) but I don't believe I've felt that from her in this game. In addition, in the few games we've played together we've had a few jokey posts and for her to eye me for having fun about Dragon... Hmmm

Zebra - You know I can always assist with idiotic logic. What did you think of this post, for example? Were you really eyeing me for my comment on Dragon or were you having fun?

Hmmm

Matt F wrote:No peeps, I did not have info on the Day 0 poll. I simply thought Death Star was the coolest choice.

Sorsha - Yeah I was surprised more people didn't pick Death Star. I mean, really? Obviously since there are only two other folks who picked Death Star besides me, in essence it's a bit silly to "eye" everyone, but c'mon. Can everyone honestly say that if they were asked to actually go to one of these places you wouldn't pick the freakin' Death Star? How many people picked Alderaan? Bubbles, Golden, Luke, Dom, MP. So you guys are at a party, and someone says "Hey would you rather go to Alderaan or the Death Star?". You're like "Yeah let's go to the planet that blows up. Sounds like a nice time."

Zebra/Elohcin - Dudettes, chill! Day 1 isn't even over and we don't have much to go on yet. Believe me, though, opinions will be flyin' outta me like no tomorrow, soon I'm bettin'. I'll look over some ISO's tonight, specifically the Alderaan voters for now.

Matt, you do realize that

Spoiler: show

I've already mentioned how I feel about his post where he somehow bets he will contribute more substantial material "soon" but his response to it is even more suspect given how he interpreted what I said. By itself I wouldn't think badly of it, but in the context of Matt's ISO, it looks awful for his alignment. And yes Matt, wording. Wording is important.

Here's the thing: As I said before, it's weird for Matt to be bothered by me playing a somewhat less intense (you haven't even seen me be intense Matt, not ever) game when the game he's playing is nothing short of bizarre. It doesn't stand out as unorthodox compared to DrWilgy, but it's still definitely not the Matt I was beginning to get used to, and others feel the same way. So like Wilgy, what we have here is some serious WIFOM. Is he hinting at role information with this non-stop emphasis on the Death Star? He says he isn't, but then what's the point of being so enthusiastic about it? It doesn't seem to make sense from both a town perspective as well as a scum perspective. However, from a town perspective the Death Star stuff seems to make even less sense given the context of his attempts at scumhunting so far as well as the wording of his more recent posts, so GTH, I can say pretty confidently that I think he is:

SCUM

linki - How nice, another reason to make my read more confident. Why are you so certain that Golden hasn't already picked a fight with another civ, Matt? Could this be a scumslip that Mac is your teammate?

#442

Good job Matt, you made me spend almost forty damn minutes going over a single player.

#443

Enrique

I am so done with these after finishing Matt's ISO. But nevertheless, I must move forward!

Enrique wrote:I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

Sooooo this is a horse that's been beaten to death already. I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say again that I am not convinced by Enrique's most recent responses attempting to explain his position with this. In fact, I actually wasn't that pinged by it until he explained it, because his explanation came off as fake. But I'll get to that in a bit.

Enrique wrote:thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

From this point almost 24 hours ago all the way to now, Enrique has been doing nothing but explaining himself and re-explaining himself and being defensive and being over-defensive. It just looks really bad. Maybe when he starts talking about something other than other people's thoughts on him I'll be more comfortable with his alignment, but as of right now, GTH, based on his ISO I would say he looks like:

SCUM

#444

Matt F wrote:Golden

Nothing sticks out really, but he seems more playful then usual so far. Typically at around this time, if civ, Golden is picking a fight with another civ. Why hasn't that happened yet Golden?

Thats kind of low. Often by this point I'm picking a fight with a baddie.

But, this is one of the most common and yet untrue accusations that gets levelled at me. If you looked back at the games I've played on this site, you'll see I've been lynched early several times as civ for not having 'picked a fight' yet - most notably in economics where I was lynched day one and then got to sub in as a baddie and clean everyone up. No early fights in Biblical where I was civ. But I did have early fights in Bullets over Broadway where I was Indy.

Since you came back, you have played 4 games early with me. In Dune zebra and I got into a fight, but it was not me that 'picked it'... I said I had a small ping and he overreacted. In Talking Heads I had some dialogue going on with Rico, but it could hardly be called a fight (any more than the posts I exchanged with Mac today). The first time I picked a fight was day 2, and it was with the specific goal of getting people to lynch me. And World Reborn, you didn't see me go straight out and pick fights in that one either (although because it is ongoing, I recognise we can't dialogue on what that means).

Long story short - you are raising a false indicator of my affiliation. (And I think your representation that I am 'more playful' is incorrect too... I always try to be playful. It makes things fun for me.)

#445

Zebra, you've been forgetting to underline your isos.

#446

Bubbles

Bubbles wrote:hey everyone
i am not familiar with the star wars films either so I'm going to vote Alderaan which sounds the nicest,from golden's and sorsha's descriptions lol

SCUM
That was easy.

linki - Thank you Golden.

#447

Dom

It's a short ISO, and there's nothing that stands out to me enough as either town or scum to be worth quoting. But since Dom has more than one post and none of them come off as disingenuous (*cough* Bubbles *cough*) GTH right now I would say Dom is:

TOWN

#448

TheFloyd73

Floyd, like Dom, doesn't have any posts that rub me in any particular way. Unlike Dom, none of Floyd's posts are relating to the game. Which means that out of all of my scum reads so far this one is most likely the easiest for me to be persuaded otherwise, but GTH is GTH, and right now when presented with a complete lack of on-topic material I have no choice but to default to:

SCUM

#449

MP

Congrats on 14000

I haven't played with MP for well over two years (in fact I don't think I've ever even played with him here, last game played together was at RM prolly) so I have no Meta or anything to go on...although apparently everyone thinks meta is bullshit anyway. Right away, I'm a little pinged by MP's Day 0 vote.

Check this out...

MovingPictures07 wrote:So which planet do we want to visit?

I have no knowledge of the movies, other than the major quotes, so... I'm willing to let someone else provide some context here.

Here is every vote for Alderaan or every statement about Alderaan until MP eventually votes...

Golden wrote:I'm considering a vote for Alderaan. If I want to go there at all, it might need to be early, before the Empire carry out a 'demonstration'.

sig wrote:Alderaan = BOOM

Sorsha wrote:Alderaan- If ever one needed an example of the irredeemable evil that was the Empire, turn to the shattered remains of Alderaan. An influential world, Alderaan was represented in the waning days of the Republic by such venerated politicians as Bail Antilles and Bail Organa. A peaceful world, Alderaan was bereft of weaponry in an era of galactic strife. It was not without spirit, however. Alderaan was one of the earliest supporters of the Alliance to Restore the Republic, though its officials prudently kept all ties to the Rebellion secret. Despite such discretion, the Empire knew it to be a haven of Rebel activity, and Grand Moff Tarkin targeted the beautiful world for reprisal as soon as the Death Star was operational. The massive primary weapon of the battle station obliterated Alderaan, leaving only a lifeless asteroid field behind.

Bubbles wrote:hey everyone
i am not familiar with the star wars films either so I'm going to vote Alderaan which sounds the nicest,from golden's and sorsha's descriptions lol

Luke11646 wrote:I don't know anything about any of the planets except Death Star, so I had to search them up, I'm going Alderaan.

DFaraday wrote:For everyone voting Alderaan, I really hope we don't end up like this:

Dom wrote:Voted Alderaan.

Matt F wrote:A bunch of innocents are obliterated on Alderaan, and we are currently leading the town there?

Now, here is MP's vote post for Alderaan

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for analyzing this poll, folks!

I'm voting Alderaan, just to make the poll a bit more interesting, and because some people think it sounds OK. I doubt Epi made the results obvious though, if there are any (besides serving as a mechanic for the role that Golden pointed out).

So MP starts off by saying he will rely on other people's info. In every post I found about Alderaan, players were clearly letting everyone know that it was messed up. The few that voted it barely said anything about why (Luke, Dom, Bubbles).

So MP, if you weren't just talking nonsense about listening to other people's views, what lead you to vote for Alderaan when everyone who talked about it referred to it's eventual demise? And the people who did vote for it barely said two words about it, so how did they convince you to go that way?

#450

I will say from my experience of bubbles that one post sounds town to me.

I'm not exactly doing my own ISOs here zebra, but based on the things you've chosen to post about each person + my own impressions gained during the course of the game, bubbles is (surprisingly, to me) the first one where my gth read differs.

#451

Luke11646

See directly above, meaning it is just as easy for me to be persuaded otherwise, but a default is a default nevertheless, so GTH:

SCUM

linki - I appreciate the input. I am unfamiliar with Bubbles' meta so that is something to take note of.

#452

OH SHIT I FORGOT TO UNDERLINE THE NAME AGAIN AAHHHHHH TRIGGERED

#453

a2thezebra wrote:Good job Matt, you made me spend almost forty damn minutes going over a single player.

Lol

Anyway, as for your ISO

What was the point of quoting every post where I said the word Death Star? Especially in later posts, when I was directly being asked about it, why wouldn't I mention it? Should I not say Death Star now even though I'm still getting pinged because of it? Death Star Death Star Death Star!

I wanted to go to the Death Star because out of every Star Wars location, that seemed like the funnest option. If I was mafia, and I know this is WIFOM as shit but it's true, I wouldn't so freely be like "death star death star death star". In fact I'm betting why it got so few votes anyway, either the Mafia didn't dare vote for it or the civilians who didn't vote for it were afraid of being sussed for voting that way. Me? I didn't care because I'm being honest when I say the Death Star would be my number one real life choice if I were given the option. I still believe that is many others' real life choice too, but hey I can't prove that just what I'm feelin'.

Also Zebra - No that was not a slip. The discussion I saw between Mac and Golden was definitely not the fights I'm used to seeing from Golden so my point still stands.

Golden - Don't take me so seriously, I wasn't trying to be "low". I just mean, as a civvie, you go after it early and often, and I haven't been seeing that so far from you. Who are your suspicions? Usually by Day 1, you're already all over it but I can't say that about you this game.

#454

Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.

#455

bcornett24

I know for anyone who's reading this it looks like I'm getting lazier and lazier with these analyses but I swear to God I just had a bunch of prominent posters in a row at first and now I have a bunch of extremely minimal posters in a row. But luckily, bcornett has more to offer read-wise than the last few. I even have material I feel like quoting!

bcornett24 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.
I'm rather confused why the focus of the conversation happens to be on the 2nd statement russ made here and not the first. I would encourage everybody to read the statement in red. To me this comes across as a scum hunting for third party players (or vise-versa).

I find this to be a very anti-town statement. What does everybody else think?

After thinking about it, I'm not sure I agree. It's almost too easy for Russ to be pegged as slipping with the "our operatives" comment. I saw his game in TH and while his tone seemed a bit off to me there (and it does here too) I don't think I share this particular ping. Maybe when I go through Russ' ISO I'll think differently, but right now I disagree. But as a wise man known as MP once hinted to me, I shouldn't think someone is suspicious just because I disagree with them. :P I think this post and the one before it speak well of bcornett (at least among the more minimal posters) but then there is this:

bcornett24 wrote:I've read all the content this far and will be posting after work here in another 5 to 6 hours.

It's been more than 5 to 6 hours good sir, WHERE ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?! Just kidding, but seriously, as of right now he seems to be genuinely scumhunting so I'd like to see more of it. GTH I think he is:

TOWN

#456

Matt F wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Good job Matt, you made me spend almost forty damn minutes going over a single player.
Lol

Anyway, as for your ISO

What was the point of quoting every post where I said the word Death Star? Especially in later posts, when I was directly being asked about it, why wouldn't I mention it? Should I not say Death Star now even though I'm still getting pinged because of it? Death Star Death Star Death Star!

I wanted to go to the Death Star because out of every Star Wars location, that seemed like the funnest option. If I was mafia, and I know this is WIFOM as shit but it's true, I wouldn't so freely be like "death star death star death star". In fact I'm betting why it got so few votes anyway, either the Mafia didn't dare vote for it or the civilians who didn't vote for it were afraid of being sussed for voting that way. Me? I didn't care because I'm being honest when I say the Death Star would be my number one real life choice if I were given the option. I still believe that is many others' real life choice too, but hey I can't prove that just what I'm feelin'.

Also Zebra - No that was not a slip. The discussion I saw between Mac and Golden was definitely not the fights I'm used to seeing from Golden so my point still stands.

Golden - Don't take me so seriously, I wasn't trying to be "low". I just mean, as a civvie, you go after it early and often, and I haven't been seeing that so far from you. Who are your suspicions? Usually by Day 1, you're already all over it but I can't say that about you this game.

I said what the point of quoting each Death Star post was, and that was to punish anyone who thought I overreacted to it. It was mostly in fun, I wasn't pinged by the fact that you mentioned it so much in itself. And you are correct, that is WIFOM as shit. It's even more WIFOM by the fact that you are aware of it. More still that you read my ISO of you yet ignored my actual suspicions instead choosing to focus on the elements that are easier for you to respond to.

#457

MacDougall wrote:Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.

Cry me a river and call me when you've read my posts. For the last time I wasn't giving you two shit for interacting with each other at all, I was giving you two shit because your conversation was getting worse and worse in regards to tunneling and bias-based content. I've seen conversations like those benefit scum in plenty of games; never have I seen scum benefit from someone posting their detailed reads. To call it hypocritical is further demonstrating how little you actually understand what I was in fact criticizing. Do you really think that I, Zebra, was boo-hooing earlier at the presence of content itself? Try again.

#458

Glorfindel

I'm naturally inclined to suspect Glorfindel for the following post...

Glorfindel wrote:I think (like Savage) it's going to take me a little while getting into this game. My knowledge of the whole Star Wars theme could best be described as 'superficial' and having only played with one of you before makes this really hard in the context that I haven't any personal experience of your individual play styles Personally, I think I'm a better mid-game player anyway...

But honestly, and granted, maybe it's partly because I've already dished out so many scum reads to the lower posters, I can't do it. He seems genuine. I definitely want to see more content so I can get a better idea of his character, but I have to be honest with GTH reads and I think he is:

TOWN

#459

Zebra

I'm not sure which points you think I'm ignoring. I felt I addressed your ISO, so what am I missing?

Before you come back hard as fuck against me, I'd also like you to take a breath and consider...

I am a huge Star Wars fan. I like the Death Star. I thought it would be fun to go to the Death Star. Pushing the Death Star option seemed like the way to go because everyone was picking shit like Alderaan and Hoth. Sig, why the eff did you pick Hoth? I mean really.

But yeah Zeebs, can you not at all see that I was having fun on Day 0? Why do you choose to believe that I was openly pushing Death Star as Mafia as opposed to me just having some fun? I'd really like an answer to this one.

#460

DFaraday

DFaraday also looks pretty good to me as far as the less prominent posters go, and this is a more well-founded read than Glorfindel given that both of her posts provide helpful content. I'm not going to take up any more space by quoting them with nothing to add so here's a bump of her ISO: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 9&sr=posts

GTH right now I think she is:

TOWN

And for someone with a measly two posts it's a pretty strong read.

linki - Again, either you are severely missing my point or you're doing so on purpose. I did not scum read you on Day 0 for posting so much Death Star stuff. I was a bit suspicious, yes, but I was far, far from a scum read. It is not the presence of your Death Star posts but rather a lack of any other posts of substance that bothers me. Here, I'll even quote myself:

"...from a town perspective the Death Star stuff seems to make even less sense given the context of his attempts at scumhunting so far as well as the wording of his more recent posts..."

Your scum-hunting logic is suspect at best. For the third time I will bring to your attention, what was your line of thought by suggesting my playstyle in this particular game is suspiciously different when yours is completely different? Also, what was your line of thought by suggesting that those who voted for Alderaan were suspect for safety reasons? Also, what was your line of thought by betting that you yourself would provide content soon? Is that not your own choice? How could you bet on your own choice? What is the purpose of your cryptic posting style this game? If you are hinting at something, what is it? If not, why are you not focusing on scumhunting? Why are you misrepresenting my arguments? Why even in the post where you implore me to show you which arguments you are carefully leaving out do you still entertain the idea that I am only suspicious of you essentially for nothing more than liking the Death Star when I have shown multiple times that that is clearly not the case?

#461

Matt F wrote:Golden - Don't take me so seriously, I wasn't trying to be "low". I just mean, as a civvie, you go after it early and often, and I haven't been seeing that so far from you. Who are your suspicions? Usually by Day 1, you're already all over it but I can't say that about you this game.

Really? Then what do you make of the post where I said this:

Golden wrote:I'm not exactly doing my own ISOs here zebra, but based on the things you've chosen to post about each person + my own impressions gained during the course of the game, bubbles is (surprisingly, to me) the first one where my gth read differs.

I don't have to be loud to generate reads or express my suspicions. I've expressed many in the game so far, when I've felt it's warranted.

GTH, my biggest scum read is you, Matt (if I did a rainbow, you would be at the bottom). I have found a lot of your posts read to me like you are disingenuous. On the other hand, you are at least putting in effort - I'd rather give some time to see where you are going, in case you are civ, and lynch someone I think could be bad but that is also not really contributing

My biggest town read is Canuck.

@zebra - dfaraday is he.

#462

Dragon D. Luffy

Similar to Enrique's Day 0 voting, I feel that while DDL's early posts were a great kickstarter for some helpful and revealing discussion, at this point it is beating a dead horse to address them, especially since I have nothing new to add about the posts themselves. I also think his responses seem genuine. He has shown frustration with the amount of suspicion that he has been a part of, but he never over-reacted. At this point I think he looks pretty good. GTH I would say:

TOWN

linki - Whoops, thanks for the clarification. Sorry DFaraday!

#463

Golden wrote:GTH, my biggest scum read is you, Matt (if I did a rainbow, you would be at the bottom). I have found a lot of your posts read to me like you are disingenuous. On the other hand, you are at least putting in effort - I'd rather give some time to see where you are going, in case you are civ, and lynch someone I think could be bad but that is also not really contributing

Lol okay so I'm your biggest baddie read but you want to let me slide for a few days?

Also, I would like you to cite the posts that read disingenuous to you. Considering none of them have been, this should be a fun exercise.

Besides myself, who else are you reading as scum?

#464

Matt F wrote:But yeah Zeebs, can you not at all see that I was having fun on Day 0? Why do you choose to believe that I was openly pushing Death Star as Mafia as opposed to me just having some fun? I'd really like an answer to this one.

Anyone else who was pinged by me pushing Death Star...answer this please. Oh especially you Zebra.

#465

Bass

Nothin' much. This is hypocritical because I just literally "lol"'d at a couple of quotes and I do it regularly, but how often does Bass "lol" in his posts? Of his six, four of them he's laughing and not much else. Nervous laughter perhaps?

Since Zebra wouldn't have a case if I didn't include the words "Death" and "Star" in my posts, I'll mention Bass didn't want to go to the Death Star because he thinks it would be bad news.

Anyway, I have no read on Bass. If I was forced to pick, I'd say bad but no real reason why.

#466

Matt F wrote:
Golden wrote:GTH, my biggest scum read is you, Matt (if I did a rainbow, you would be at the bottom). I have found a lot of your posts read to me like you are disingenuous. On the other hand, you are at least putting in effort - I'd rather give some time to see where you are going, in case you are civ, and lynch someone I think could be bad but that is also not really contributing
Lol okay so I'm your biggest baddie read but you want to let me slide for a few days?

Also, I would like you to cite the posts that read disingenuous to you. Considering none of them have been, this should be a fun exercise.

Besides myself, who else are you reading as scum?

Every single one of your isos has read disingenuous to me, without exception. They feel like false reads for the sake of looking town. Even your town read on me feels like a way for you to pick a fight with me.

I mostly have town reads for now, but you can use the post I JUST quoted you no problems to figure out other scum reads I have. You seem to want to draw me into a fight because I haven't had one yet, force me to repeat information over and over, which is my pet hate in mafia. You give a person an answer, and they immediately ask you to give them another answer to the same question. I'm not interested in it. I have reads all through the thread, and apparently you JUST isoed me, so you ought to know that.

As for the underlined: I did not say 'I want to let you slide for a few days'. I do, however, want to take some time to get a better handle on you. This feels like the fight zebra picked with me in Dune all over again, where he tries to read in a whole lot of stuff that was never said and isn't there. If you really are civ as you claim matt, what are you trying to achieve. Would you prefer me to lynch you? Or do you think, especially given that you have a habit of making yourself look suspicious early, that I should take my time with you.

#467

Roxy

I am so ready to be done with this, and I'm almost there. I see I've got some more minimal posters on the way (up to MM that is) so I'm going to compile them into one post if I can. Roxy is just confusing to me with her most recent post, and unless I'm missing something that's right under my nose regarding Sorsha, I would really like to know what she meant with that "Sorsha Day 0" comment. I don't understand Roxy at this point but she is offering up content. She might be the most difficult to pick read yet, but a GTH is a GTH and I think she is:

TOWN

But when I do my rainbow reads you can expect her in the middle, maybe even just south of the middle.

Elohcin

Elohcin has said of a lot of things so far that I agree with (the highest posters seem civ at least for the most part, Matt is the most suspicious person yet, etc.) so I may be biased in her favor. Nevertheless I think she is contributing good content and no gun necessary, my GTH read of her is:

TOWN

Simon

Simon wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Simon wrote:I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.
I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?
We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

I'm still curious as to why Russ was singled out here. There are many possibilities, but I am not waiting for Simon to clarify to finish these damn ISO analyses right now, so even though a clarification could easily change it, my current GTH of Simon based on this post alone is:

SCUM

Black Rock

Black Rock wrote:I started page 10, so almost caught up. I have to pick up LC and then he'll take over the computer for that other game. I'll have to finish catch up later.

I do want to revisit this quote.

a2thezebra wrote:So if MM can get away with anything how are we supposed to catch him if he is scum? Again I ask, if his actions are meta-proof, what is his normal scum behavior?
Now that I'm not joking around, I went back to this point to continue my catch up and when I read it again, what are you asking here. Why are you pushing it so much?

So you're almost caught up right here (yet you haven't posted anything since) and the only thing you have to offer is a proposition of the idea that I was exaggerating how strange it is that everyone was letting MM's early vote slide when MM himself agrees with me and claims to have done that for the purpose of gauging reactions? Wow. GTH right now I think you are:

SCUM

Canucklehead

I wouldn't go as far as Golden to say that Canuck is my strongest town read period, but she is certainly my strongest town read out of everyone with five posts or less. Her last three posts offer great analytical content and are very well-reasoned and articulated, even more so in my opinion than what has been seen from some of the more vocal posters, myself included of course. For a GTH I can pretty easily say:

TOWN

nijuukyugou

nijuukyugou wrote:Oooh, tough call. I love Ewoks on Endor, training on Dagobah, and Cloud City, if I didn't already like it for its tech and clouds, this:
Canucklehead wrote:I voted for Cloud City, because I would happily bone any of Lando Calrissian, Lobot, or Boba Fett.

But I'll go Tatooine. I'm drawn to it as the first real planet we see in the "first" film, if I recall correctly.

Yet another poster with zero content to analyze who by my own principles I must label as scum for now but could easily change upon the influence of more posts yadda yadda yadda, yawn. Let's hear from you nijuu so the next time I read you I won't have to sound like a broken record. And don't take this too seriously, I'm mainly singling you out here because I'm coming to the end of these ISO analyses and I'm exhausted. Something something GTH I say:

SCUM

#468

Matt F wrote:
Matt F wrote:But yeah Zeebs, can you not at all see that I was having fun on Day 0? Why do you choose to believe that I was openly pushing Death Star as Mafia as opposed to me just having some fun? I'd really like an answer to this one.
Anyone else who was pinged by me pushing Death Star...answer this please. Oh especially you Zebra.

Oh, I get it! You're a jester! You're trying to get lynched because that's the only way you'll win. Tell me I'm right. Tell me you're digging your own grave on purpose. Tell me that when I point out that I have already responded to you providing a number of reasons why I suspect you besides pushing Death Star, you won't pretend like you missed it by an accident and you are in fact desperately trying to get as many people suspicious of you as possible. TELL ME THIS IS NOT REALITY RIGHT NOW, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

#469

I'll do more tomorrow, I'm gettin' tired.

sig and MP - Please answer my inquiries when you have a moment.

Zebra - I'm going to ask that you step back and think about my push for Death Star and ask a few questions.

What is my motive for posting what I've posted if I'm mafia? What am I to gain by shouting from the heavens "Death star!!!" ?

Do you think my theoretical team would be happy with me posting "death star death star death star!!!" ? Do you think my theoretical team would advise me to push it all the way or to stfu? I don't recall how many players I've been Mafia with in this game, but anyone who has been scum with me knows I'm a follower through and through. Whatever the team thinks is best is how I go. So what are my theoretical team's motivations for okaying this route I've taken?

If you really think about it, I believe you'll see that I was merely havin' a good time. Also I truly was confuzzled why barely anyone was voting for Death Star seeing as how it was obvi the coolest option of the bunch.

Night peeps

Linki - Golden, how have my ISO's been disingenuous? Specifics. None of them have been so I'm curious. I do think you should take your time with me, seeing as how I'm not mafia, but I did find it odd that I was your "biggest scum read" but you didn't want to vote for me.

Linki - Zebra

I honestly don't know what you want to hear. I don't see how I'm digging my own grave. But I guess you didn't really answer my question, you just called me a "jester" and that was that. Anyone else that was pinged by me pushing Death Star, please answer my question and don't work around it by labeling me a "jester trying to dig my own grave". Please explain why you think I was pushing Death Star as Mafia as opposed to me having fun on Day 0. Zebra, feel free to not answer again, you have made it clear that no matter what I say, you are going to tunnel the shit out of me.

Night peeps

#470

To be clear Zebra, feel free to ask me whatever you want, I just meant you don't have to answer the actual question I posed to you since you've shown you have no desire to.

#471

Metalmarsh89

A more complicated read with more posts to analyze? A welcome breath of fresh air at this point. Earlier I may have not been getting lazy with the ISO analyses but at this point I just might be. Here we go.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Votes are not changeable in this poll.

In hindsight, you don't seem too bothered by this. Why the sigh? :P
But really, you're the only one who expressed disappointment with votes not being changeable and you're also the only one who voted ridiculously early. At the time of this post there is still no one else who has voted, and your vote came only a few hours after this post. Now as I understand it you gave up your vote (by using it early, rather than selling it) for the purpose of gauging reactions, as evidenced by your later posts here:

Spoiler: show

And at this point, I still buy it. I still have you as a town read. But you're playing a dangerous game here, you've already seen that I'm not willing to give you the benefit of the doubt just because you're known for this kind of behavior like everyone else is. I have a town read on you right now, but also a closer

than any of my other town reads. Anyway GTH:

TOWN

linki -

You...you can't be serious. Ask you whatever I want? Really? REALLY?!

#472

Matt F wrote:Zebra

I'm not sure which points you think I'm ignoring. I felt I addressed your ISO, so what am I missing?

Also Zebra, I noticed you never answered this. What am I ignoring?

If you're going to call me scum, you best be ready to back it up.

This time for real, night

#473

Lol guess that wasn't for real yet.

Zebra - It was obvious you didn't want to address my question to you by dodging it instead and calling me a "jester who wants to dig my own grave", so I was letting you off the hook. Then I realized that the way I phrased it, it may look like I was asking you not to address me at all anymore, but no, I only meant about the question that you dodged.

Also, please don't dodge my other question regarding what I missed in your ISO and what you think I'm ignoring.

Now then, again GOOD NIGHT PEEPS

#474

Simon wrote:I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

Is indie hunting not a scumtell here? I'm surprised this didn't get that much notice.

#475

NANANANANANA_BANANA

Another no-content therefore default scum player. Yawn. GTH could easily change:

SCUM

Savage

Right now Savage is somewhere between being a minimal poster and being a moderate poster (given what the average amount for this game is anyway) and I think Savage looks good. There's content here and I hope it continues. GTH in present day, present time, HAHAHAHAHA:

TOWN

linki - You...you really missed it, didn't you? You really missed it. Guys, he really missed it. And he missed me referencing it in another one of my responses. He's not looking for responses. He's not looking for content. He's not looking for feedback of any kind and he's certainly not looking to scumhunt. I'm fully convinced now that he's looking to pretend he's someone else and somehow get away with it for the entire game. At this point I can safely say that it's unlikely that someone else will get my vote today. Matt, either you've got less than 24 hours to convince me that I'm wrong, or someone else has got less than 24 hours to convince me that they look even worse.

#476

Also, zebra, are you just posting your read on everyone so far this day?

Going to bed so don't expect a response for a while. SorryNotSorry

#477

I just keep getting dragged into this. Eventually I will sleep I guess.

Okay I'll bite, what did I miss?

How am I not reading the thread? I continually address your points against me, and in return, you laugh at me and don't respond to my questions. So please, elaborate on what I've missed and how I'm not reading responses. Are YOU not reading responses, since you continually avoid answering MY questions?

Here are my questions, Zeeb...

1) Why do you choose to believe I pushed the Death Star as Mafia as opposed to me just having fun?

2) What did I ignore in your ISO? You said I was only trying to answer the easy accusations, so what did I miss?

3) Please tell me my motivations and my theoretical team's motivation for posting what I've posted thus far?

I don't expect much from you except more snide laughter and emoticons and "really???" but if you have a moment, answer the above.

I can't keep getting sucked into this tonight, I'm tired, but I'll be back tomorrow to see if you've actually, y'know, answered my questions after I answered yours.

#478

Russtifinko

Last fucking read. Dear JJJ, how do you exist? How have you not yet imploded from the weight of your own drive to provide content? This is insane, it's Day 1, I don't even have much to analyze or investigate, and I am nothing short of wiped out.

For me, my scum read of Russ isn't from any particular action or comment but just from the way he's been coming across in his posts in general. It reminds me of his game in TH where some of us suspected him at first for more or less the same reason, but he ended up making it to the end because he imitated scumhunting extremely well. I don't buy his act here, but at the same time I acknowledge that compared to my other scum reads, especially among the more vocal posters, my suspicion of him isn't nearly as well-founded. Russ, it doesn't look like I'm going to vote for you anytime soon, but just know that I'm watching you closely. Also worthy of note is that my mind is pretty hazy right now and I am starting to get very tired, so if there is a specific post of Russ that I may have missed that is worth pointing out or commenting on then I'll bring it up when I go over everything tomorrow.

SCUM

#479

And now, a beautiful rainbow for pleasant dreams to come.

#480

Elohcin
Golden
Canucklehead
MacDougall
bcornett24
sig
DFaraday
SAVAGE
Dom
Sorsha
MovingPictures07
Dragon D. Luffy
Glorfindel
Metalmarsh89
Roxy
Simon
Bubbles
NANANANANANA_BANANA / nijuukyugou / Luke11646 / TheFloyd73
Russtifinko
Enrique
DrWilgy
Black Rock
Bass_the_Clever
Matt F

Wow, what a hideous fucking rainbow. It's just inconsistent shades of red and green. Definitely time for bed.

#481

First, let me preface this by saying that I actually appreciate all the effort you have just gone to Zebra, quite a lot. It'd be nice if the appreciated was reciprocated when it came to my own efforts....

Pink in line responses.

a2thezebra wrote:MacDougall

Let's jump right in.

MacDougall wrote:
Enrique wrote: I haven't voted at all. I was just wondering if there was a reason not to.
You're right, scum would heavily contemplate the potential of such a thing since their numbers are fewer ergo their demise has more of an impact on their team.
Well I see Mac's suspicion of Enrique was less humor-based from the start than I remembered it was...my response to this particular post is pretty much:
Enrique wrote:huh
That said, when Mac elaborated on his issue with Enrique later I was much more convinced and I think Enrique's responses to it have made him look worse. But I'll get to that when I get to that.

MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for analyzing this poll, folks!

I'm voting Alderaan, just to make the poll a bit more interesting, and because some people think it sounds OK. I doubt Epi made the results obvious though, if there are any (besides serving as a mechanic for the role that Golden pointed out).
I'm glad that in our first game together you get to be scum and I get to be civ.
Another bold suspicion from Mac. It also demonstrates why I disagree with Mac's MP suspicion; like I said earlier, he's just not used to MP's play style. If this post pinged him, anything MP says will ping him as well. However, as far as Mac's alignment is concerned, I think this looks good. - Cool, so I guess that gives MP carte blanche to be a scum read for me and get away with it because apparently I'm just wrong. There's nothing unusual about the posts I've called out at all. That's why MP himself apologised and corrected himself on quite a few of my points. Even he, the person I was calling scum could see the value in my suspicions, yet you don't. How weird is that?

MacDougall wrote:Requesting a policy lynch of MattF.
I did not think he was joking when he said this, but since he hasn't bothered Matt since (I think?) I do now. If it were anyone but Mac I would've concluded it was a joke when I first read it anyway.

This is a side issue (read: non-alignment-indicative) that I feel I should point out.
MacDougall wrote:The last thing you want to be doing is identifying a scum player by YOUR ping and telling them to stop what they are doing right? Is what you are criticising Zebra for scummy to you? If so, say so! If not, what is there to gain by telling her to pipe down?
Mac, I think you're one of those people that easily misinterprets a suggestion from another player as some form of censorship, for lack of a better word. I say this because you made a similar accusation to me when I expressed dislike of your later spat with Golden. I did not get the impression from DDL that he was trying to silence me in any sort of way, and as DDL clarified in response to this, I was correct. - One of those people? Like who else? I wasn't wrong about either of you. You both attempted to silence people because you disagreed with their suspicions, or at best vociferously criticised to the point of it coming across like you were intending to get us to stop proceeding on what I feel are valid points. Disagree with me, sure, but the way you've been talking to me, and particularly about me, well tbh it actually hurts my feelings. It makes me feel like you think I am stupid.

You then proceeded to make gargantuan posts on every player with a HUGE colourful stamp on them. Talk about target painting sheesh, and talk about white noise. Half of your HUGE colourful stamps are based on next to no in thread content, and then you you refer to me below as misguided and earlier as distracting in my efforts. Unless you have the most amazing insight into this game, you almost certainly have just painted a huge TOWN sign on scum players and vice versa, with in many cases next to no thread evidence to do so. And you call me misguided and criticise my scum hunting. That's not fair at all.

After that, there's no specific post that I feel is worth noting. - Wow. So of all my posts there are just a couple of worth, the rest are worthless. Cool I'm really keen to put in the time to scum hunt now... I will say overall Mac is coming across as very genuine, and is playing a well-intended but somewhat misguided game. By misguided I mean that a lot of his conclusions seem to be missing crucial factors, and he's been tunneling a few players (Enrique, MP, Golden) pretty badly considering that it's Day 1. I fling shit everywhere, yes, but I try not to bite down on any particular conclusion until I'm certain. But hey, I'll take any attempts at scumhunting over a lurker any day. GTH, I think Mac is:

TOWN

Missing crucial factors. I would like you to point out crucial factors that I have missed, aside from meta that I would have no idea about.

Tunneling, please. I ain't tunneled nobody at all. How can one player tunnel three separate players. I was pinged by enrique, I explored my ping, I drew more out of him. I was pinged by MP, I explored my ping, I drew more out of him. I was pinged by Golden, he went all Golden but the same thing occurred. So scum hunting is just tunneling to you I guess...

Criticising my extremely analytical scum hunting that I actually invested a load of time into and for calling me misguided and telling me my points are missing crucial factors etc, despite my careful analysis of each and every one of them really makes me feel like shit Zebra because I think you are my strongest damn town read right now and this is how you are treating me. And people wonder why most games I just fluff about not saying a whole bunch of anything. When I think of things in a different angle I must be misguided etc. I will tell you time and time again I find scum where nobody else does because of it. So I won't be not doing it. I appreciate the town vote of confidence but your low opinion of my skill really makes me feel unappreciated and pretty much shithouse.

#482

Oh, and one last thing: Matt F, upon reading just a teeny-weeny bit more closely you will see that I have in fact already answered each one of your questions. And like Golden, I'm not a fan of repeating my answers just because you think it's a valid counterargument to simply ask again and again expecting something different. G'night all.

linki - Oh fuck me, sorry Mac but I'll have to get back to you later.

#483

Golden wrote:As far as day one policy lynches go, lynching lurkers would be fine with me.

I've now seen several games here where the entire scum team lurk and play the game of trying to get the higher poster players to take each other out.

Yes in TH, after I was lynched the remaining scum were all the absolute lowest posters, Wilgy among them.

#484

Matt F wrote:Golden

Nothing sticks out really, but he seems more playful then usual so far. Typically at around this time, if civ, Golden is picking a fight with another civ. Why hasn't that happened yet Golden?

a2thezebra wrote: linki - How nice, another reason to make my read more confident. Why are you so certain that Golden hasn't already picked a fight with another civ, Matt? Could this be a scumslip that Mac is your teammate?

Whoa whoa fucking whoa. Don't be talking like that jack. Golden picked fights with more than just me. Nah fuck that I ain't having it. Don't be chaining me to Matt fucking F of all people.

#485

Golden wrote:
Matt F wrote:Golden

Nothing sticks out really, but he seems more playful then usual so far. Typically at around this time, if civ, Golden is picking a fight with another civ. Why hasn't that happened yet Golden?
Thats kind of low. Often by this point I'm picking a fight with a baddie.

But, this is one of the most common and yet untrue accusations that gets levelled at me. If you looked back at the games I've played on this site, you'll see I've been lynched early several times as civ for not having 'picked a fight' yet - most notably in economics where I was lynched day one and then got to sub in as a baddie and clean everyone up. No early fights in Biblical where I was civ. But I did have early fights in Bullets over Broadway where I was Indy.

Since you came back, you have played 4 games early with me. In Dune zebra and I got into a fight, but it was not me that 'picked it'... I said I had a small ping and he overreacted. In Talking Heads I had some dialogue going on with Rico, but it could hardly be called a fight (any more than the posts I exchanged with Mac today). The first time I picked a fight was day 2, and it was with the specific goal of getting people to lynch me. And World Reborn, you didn't see me go straight out and pick fights in that one either (although because it is ongoing, I recognise we can't dialogue on what that means).

Long story short - you are raising a false indicator of my affiliation. (And I think your representation that I am 'more playful' is incorrect too... I always try to be playful. It makes things fun for me.)

Let's face it, the only reason that there hasn't been a Golden in thread shitfight yet (there kind of has been but not to Matt's liking apparently) is because I've yet to respond to your most recent replies to me. Pretty sure that's gonna start some shit.

#486

a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.
Cry me a river and call me when you've read my posts. For the last time I wasn't giving you two shit for interacting with each other at all, I was giving you two shit because your conversation was getting worse and worse in regards to tunneling and bias-based content. I've seen conversations like those benefit scum in plenty of games; never have I seen scum benefit from someone posting their detailed reads. To call it hypocritical is further demonstrating how little you actually understand what I was in fact criticizing. Do you really think that I, Zebra, was boo-hooing earlier at the presence of content itself? Try again.

Considering I cop shit for being rude all the time it says a lot by by golly you are rude.

#487

a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.
Cry me a river and call me when you've read my posts. For the last time I wasn't giving you two shit for interacting with each other at all, I was giving you two shit because your conversation was getting worse and worse in regards to tunneling and bias-based content. I've seen conversations like those benefit scum in plenty of games; never have I seen scum benefit from someone posting their detailed reads. To call it hypocritical is further demonstrating how little you actually understand what I was in fact criticizing. Do you really think that I, Zebra, was boo-hooing earlier at the presence of content itself? Try again.

Jesus H Christ...

Zebra...

a2thezebra wrote:Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

I think the point was worth discussing. You didn't.

a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.
How is exploring intention behind in thread play insignificant nonsense Zebra?
But the disagreement has no effect on the intention. The disagreement is about what a post was referring to, and either way you interpret it the intention is the same: undefined.

So because the intention behind MP's post is undefined we shouldn't discuss our perceived reasons for it. Okay shut up shop kids this game is over. How in the world are we supposed to find scum if we don't analyse the intention behind posts? Like, is that not the actual point of the entire process?

Why do I even have to explain to you, someone who believes that myself and Golden are both civs, that what we were doing was scum hunting. If you don't see the value you in it then just say so and move on. Don't tell us it's pointless, we disagree. We play differently to you. Get over it. Us three have come to loggerheads too many times for this. There are differences in the way we approach the game. We all have talent for finding scum. We do it differently. Leave me to mine thanks.

#488

Nothing has done anything to sway my perception of everything I raised towards MP. He's explained it in a way that rationalises it as reasonable behaviour, which he would do anyway. Disagree if you like, is normal, most people read my scum cases as jibberish because it's different.

#489

I'm not even all that busy, but I do feel slightly overwhelmed by the size of this game. I've read pretty much everything as it was posted, but a lot of it has just straight flown over my head, and I'm especially having trouble keeping track of who says what. MP makes a good point that I'm not offering much of anything right now, and he's completely right, I'm still adjusting to the pace. I appreciate Zebra's ISOs/GTHs (I have no idea what those acronyms mean but she keeps using them so one of them is probably right and I have a slightly better grasp on the game after reading them.

So a few quick thoughts (MP made a post with a bunch of different points to address but oh jeez give me a few minutes to even feel like reading it):

sig approached my Tattooine posts from two completely different angles before and after people were talking about it. His original response was:

It could also favor the Hutts, but we might just be overthinking it.

So it stands that he doesn't think my question is too out there and he's being helpful, suggesting that maybe we're just oblivious, right? Then Mac calls me scum, then this happens:

sig wrote:I don't think enrique vote for Yavin is suspicious.
Though this
Enrique wrote:I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?
The Hutts aren't independent and are based on Tattooine so I find this interesting.

Bro... you had my back... just a minute ago. If you found it straight sus from the beginning, then fair enough, but how do you go and pull a 180 the moment somebody else mentions my name? Now, his post is not especially accusatory, he's very careful with his words ("I find this interesting") but the implication is right there and it bothers me that he was so quick to jump on it like that.

One more thing I'm not all that comfortable with is the "let's go to the baddie option to find out their plans" rhetoric. Like, um, excuse me? That's never been a thing like that in Mafia, has there? Or at least I don't remember it from my days. The baddie option benefits the baddies and that's that. Matt's push for the Death Star was especially disconcerting, but my first real "what the fuck did he just say that" moment was when Russ suggested Tattooine was a good option "to find out Jabba's plans." Huh? It's hard to think a Hutt would be so upfront about wanting to go to Jabba's lair, but I certainly didn't read that and think "damn, Russ, that's some fine civvie logic!" There's many valid reasons why people might've voted Tattooine, the one I remember reading the most being "because that's where the movies started," but jeez how do you expect me to trust someone whose vote is founded on it being the baddie option?

This is also a thing that gets me, about people voting Alderaan because "it sounds the nicest." What the fuck, dude, maybe it's more exciting or something, but people complained there wasn't a single bad thing to say about Yavin and you vote for a planet that's only famous for blowing up and killing everyone in it? Day 0 logic is some weird shit.

Oh yeah and Matt definitely had some sort of info. He was pushing it so far down our throats I can't even tell what his goal was, and he can keep denying it but he definitely knew something or he wouldn't have been so damn persistent. It's not like anyone was going to forget after the day was over. There had to be a reason.

Okay, wowie, now to figure everything else out and stop skimming the longer posts.

#490

mommy and daddy will you please stop fighting

Who Dies Next?