Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Scotty

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

***

[Nachomamma8]

I probably would have unvoted without the link; my big problem with his posting was the "I guess I don't fit in here" post which looked a lot more like scum giving up and feeling bad after slipping than it did fakeslipping town.

Fred, if you're suspecting JJJ for the sake of suspecting him then I think you're taking a silly approach; making sure everyone gets attention is good but you're better off questioning people than you are artificially dragging them down in your reads list and telling them that's what you're doing.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Scotty

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

***

Which, coincidentally, ended up being ignored partially because it was "too obvious" and I "wouldn't make such a silly mistake as scum".

[Long Con]

What does this mean, to "fail a quickhammer"?

[Long Con]

Dyslexicon, do you drink and Mafia? I think my slips happen most when I do. Anyways, get that link, I really want to let you off for this, I'm going to bed now, good night.

I want you to fit in here, don't be discouraged by speed bumps. We will incorporate your style into our games, as long as you aren't ika and silverwolf.

Why do you want to let me off? Are you just an incredibly nice guy? I seem to remember you being more snap snap when I played here ages ago?

I don't know if I'm snap snap or not, but it is important to me to have an open and welcoming Mafia community here. You upset me when you said maybe you just don't fit in here, like we needed to try harder to make you feel comfortable. I didn't want you to feel bullied out, but I also don't have much experience with fake slips like that, so I couldn't let it go until you gave that link.

That said, I haven't clicked the link... I just trust that someone will, and most likely will find that you told the truth about it. OR they'll come back with "WTF there's nothing like that there!"

[speedchuck]

my big problem with Dizzy's posting was the "I guess I don't fit in here" post which looked a lot more like scum giving up and feeling bad after slipping than it did fakeslipping town.

My only problem was how forced it felt when he was being all nonchalant about the suspicion. It felt like he was trying not to let it get to him because messing up under pressure seems scummy.

Still think he's town, though.

This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN
Haven't looked at any of your other content yet, but I like voting.

Scotty's vote looks pretty bad as well. Generally, the spot that he's in is around where mafia bandwagoning begins to start, and his committal is weak. He practically argues against his own vote in a joking way that gives him an out no matter what happens with Dizzy. Scum generally fear early committal, in my experience.

The other votes don't look quite as bad, IMO. Though, there aren't many. I suggest looking at the immediate reaction of the people rather than just the vote totals, because plenty of people gave a rain check on the dizzy vote, or voted later.
Discuss?

Preview reply:
To fail a quickhammer means that scum had the means to hammer (end) a majority vote, turning the tables on a critical day and winning the game for scum.
Basically, in quickhammer, scum all jump votes onto the accused person at the same time, as soon as that person has a townie vote on them. This would end the final day with a mislynch, as quickhammering usually only happens in MYLO ot LYLO. (Myslynch and lose/lynch or lose)
To fail a quickhammer would be to not vote at the right time, resulting in scum possibly outing themselves in the grouphammer.

[Soneji]

I don't take issue with Silver Lantern's defensiveness in response to Quin given that it was a misunderstanding anyway, and I also just generally think "defensiveness" isn't a very interesting tell in the first place. I feel like I see that accusation hurled constantly in Mafia and that it falls flat considerably more often than not. I don't have the hard numbers to prove that theory.

However, SL's content has otherwise been poll and map oriented, which is to say that the hunting content remains limited. That will need to change.

Why should a tell need to be interesting to be correct? It is not a hard tell for sure, which is why you pressure them on it and see how they react. From a general standpoint, mafia is more invested in their individual lives than townies as they don't want to let their teammates down, so defensiveness can come from trying to dissuade any suspicion big or small.

Silver Lantern's response to me was calm and read genuine, so I'm not inclined to keep my vote there unless my catch-up offers more evidence against him/her.

[Unvote]

LC, the benefit is that it allows an item owner to get info into the thread.

Unless Spirityo reveals that a dead player was in possession of an item, how is everyone claiming an item really that helpful in terms of getting info to the thread?

I am expecting the mafia will not vote as a block, at least not early.

That brings to mind, are the poll results stored anywhere or do I need to do a screenshot to retain that info?

What was the point in stating this?

I have no problem with people lying in order to protect the person with the actual map.

The part I have a problem with is fake-claimers taking votes away from the person with the REAL map, causing us to go places we don't want to go.

MM, Golden, and 3J all want us to go to a different destination.

Only one of them will benefit the civilians (assuming whoever has the map is a civilian).

That's a problem.

From what the OP says, the areas just give us different items to use, which we still vote on to give to someone. There is likely more to it, else I don't see why a map would be of any real use, though any region can potentially benefit us if we vote for a civilian to get the item. I was starting to think you might be getting a bit paranoid with this whole map business but seeing JJJ, MM and Golden all vote for different directions in the poll lends some weight to your argument.

There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.

To be fair the next two are us new folks. 8 posts is actually pretty good for me this early. I'm not a quiet player by any means but I'm also not a 800 post per game player like yourself.

I will say generating day 1 reads is viewed as kind of pointless where I play. It's always a point of contention on whether or not day 1's should be as useless as it is and whether or not we should have more games start on Night 0. As a result I've gotten in the bad habit of just checking in once on Day 1 just to say hello.

Additionally it is interested in seeing the push on civ reads. Usually I'm trying to play the fine line between appearing town and scum. If you're too town you usually get killed early. I will see how this develops.

You seem to be reading an accusation into JJJ's post, when there is not explicitly one. Then you go on to have meta excuses not only for lack of day 1 reads but for intentionally appearing scummy. I'm not unfamiliar with those that approach the town aspect of mafia like its a game of Survivor, especially in backwards places that only have living town players as winners, though usually that is expressed more by not being overly outspoken rather than intentionally making themselves look scummy. Only top tier players that have a history of being N1 may try to toe the line to strike a heavy blow in later phases.

Seems like an odd thing to slip up on. I can't really be sure because I don't have an expanded Dossier on anyone particularly Dyslexicon. Seems odd that literally nothing else they posted took anything seriously then all of the sudden they post game relevant information that would get them lynched. It just appears counter intuitive to the representation of their character.

Again, the lack of experience forces me to defer on this argument. I probably shouldn't apply logic based on personal experience to people I've never met.


As to Sorsha, the comment barely registered at the time as anything signifigant, but since it gives us something else to talk about, I guess it serves a purpose, still think it was a joke. As someone who posts a lot of jokes that people don't register I am sympathetic and perhaps too lenient in my view of failed attempts at humor.

That is how people end up slipping a fair amount of the time, they post in a way that seems like they're not taking anything seriously and end up being careless with the contents of their post. Dys was still posting in a non-serious manner in that post he potentially slipped, saying he has three scumreads with there being five scum, so lynch the inactives.

You really shouldn't be deferring on anything, the game of mafia is all about going after what your gut tells you seems off. You gain experience by striding forward with your own viewpoint, not giving up accountability to other more experienced players.

Hi everyone. Apologies for dumb questions ahead of time, I will be asking them all game and for games to come too.

DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP, I REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP.

Alright, now that I got the reverse psychology argument out of the way, should we try to coordinate the poll votes, or would that be against the spirit of the game? And would there be a benefit in doing so? I am guessing not much aside from pissing off the mod.

You guys call the mod the host here from what I gather, right?

What is BTSC?

What is Civ or Civilian? Is that like a regular townie?

I skimread Soneji voting this slot and now find myself wondering why.

Vote: Soneji

being able to change my vote continues to feel wonderful.

It is rather disingenuous to quote something other than the post I voted Silver for and presenting that as reason to vote for me. You did fix this later and even agreed with me on the Quin suspicion part, yet are still out for my blood later for what was essentially a pressure vote made with little other content to work with at the time.

I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

I just got done yelling at an entire forum about this! Day 1 is crucial and I hate to see it treated like it's a joke.

This is hardly relevant to the current proceedings, just felt like saying it.

I apologize for NF's sake for those with that belief. I and other several others there have yelled into that abyss many a time to little avail.

OK, so the other thing I was confused about was the whole deal between Silver Lantern/Quin/Soneji/Nacho. I've reread enough to get the gist of it but I still feel like I'm missing a couple things, namely (a) why Nacho immediately placed a vote on Soneji just because he disagreed with his vote/didn't think SL was suspicious (? at least that's how I interpreted that?) and (b) in SL's original overreactive response to Quin, did he ever actually express suspicion of Quin for it? Because I didn't get that impression, but Soneji thought he was "backhandedly" accusing Quin of being scum and Nacho wondered why SL didn't go ahead and vote for Quin. And SL's response about that just now doesn't really elucidate for me whether or not he did find Quin suspicious in the first place and/or still does.

Sorry if the wording of this post is a mess/hard to follow, but that's how I've felt about much of this discussion anyway, so my stream of consciousness here may reflect that


linki: Again, nacho, why do you think Soneji is automatically bad for suspecting SL from that one post? That's still the only post Soneji has made in the game, and I admit I find it a little odd that he found it worthy of an immediate vote (but that could just be a style thing/excusable by it being a changeable vote game), but he could come back any time and clarify or revise his viewpoint. That you're so hellbent against him based on a single and his only post in the game is a little odd to me. I do have a good read on you so far, I'm just having trouble understanding a few of your perspectives.

I called it a backhanded accusation because he never expressly accused Quin but he called his post a fake argument. Generally only mafia would have reason to fabricate an argument, so SL calling Quin's accusation a fake argument is tantamount to saying he is scum.

It is rare for me to make my first post in any day 1 and not vote for somebody.

Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.

I think there are two reasons for this.

1) There are lots of misdirection/cloak powers on hcrealms

2) There is a clear skill gab between the top...let's say four players and the rest at any given point

This means that the "most town" players could just be bad night results or good players pulling the wool over your eyes, hence the inherit distrust of early trusted players in hcrealms meta. The mafia "kill confirmed townies" meta reinforces this. I'm glad we've moved off the "target skilled players early" meta and onto "who hasn't died on night one in awhile" meta but it doesn't undo points 1 and 2.

I found the mafia kill targets in Unfortunate Events (my only other Syndicate game) totally perplexing. Not sure what to expect here.

Sounds a lot like how Narutoforums/My Hero Academia Forums mafia is at times. We have developed a more serious culture over time but there is a definite large gap between the top players and the rest, along with misdirection/cloak powers in our role madness games. A nice middleground between The Syndicate and your home site.

Also, I'm not a dumb player. I don't obv-slip like that if scum. It would be me pretending to be town that fake slipped to emulate my town game.

Would expect more from Golden. "A great catch", really? Glaringly ovbious and classic I'd say.

Anyways, people are biting. Rawr.

When does day end?

So you're taking the route of "it was bait". This is generally the most desperate reaction to being caught slipping. I've seen intelligent people make slip-ups as bad or worse than what you look to have.

The "I guess I don't fit in here" post also seems like playing the victim to me. Dys has provided the links to the games he was talking about which I'll look into when I can, since I'm pretty much out of time for the moment. I can see the value in reaction fishing but when you do it for something that townies will react strongly to as well, it muddies the waters.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why should a tell need to be interesting to be correct?

In that context I meant "interesting" to be related to correctness/incorrectness. I don't think it's an accurate tell very often. I don't mind the accusation being thrown out there, anything's worth exploring.

[Scotty]

I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

[Scotty]

What I'm not used to is this type of soft lynch style. Makes me nervous either we won't get there, or there'll be a runoff/CFD last second.

In any case, I'm quite lacking on a place to start this game except what's given to me. I've also never had a role like this one and I'm literally doing the opposite of what I should be doing to make my role fully effective.

[Scotty]

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

I can't open the link right now

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

I can't open the link right now

Here's a more direct link for everyone else

A screencap:

Spoiler: show

And for a little extra fun, a few posts later:

Spoiler: show

Thoughts immediately, Scotty.

[Scotty]

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

I can't open the link right now

Here's a more direct link for everyone else

A screencap:

Spoiler: show

And for a little extra fun, a few posts later:

Spoiler: show

Thoughts immediately, Scotty.

Yeah that looks identical to this one.



Unvote Dyslexicon

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Worth note:

The parallel is close, but it doesn't inherently make Dizzy a townie. I have to ask the following question though:

~ Does Dizzy have any reason to fake fakeslip as a bad guy to appear like their town self (typing that feels hilarious) in this environment where nobody really knows their town self anyway? I'm going to say no.

[Jackofhearts2005]

You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

I really prefer it.

Hammering leads to the violent "aha! gotcha townies" moment @lynch or lose.

Requiring you leave a vote in one place instills a sense of ownership and care over your vote.

[Silver Lantern]

You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

I really prefer it.

Hammering leads to the violent "aha! gotcha townies" moment @lynch or lose.

Requiring you leave a vote in one place instills a sense of ownership and care over your vote.

I get it, but very harsh and unforgiving for my taste.

[Scotty]

I'm voting Wilgy. Don't know who hasn't checked in yet, if anyone. Nor can I currently find the vote totals.

Vote Wilgy

[Silver Lantern]

I am expecting the mafia will not vote as a block, at least not early.

That brings to mind, are the poll results stored anywhere or do I need to do a screenshot to retain that info?

What was the point in stating this?

Which part, the top or bottom? And why do I need a point to make a random comment?

Are you really not able to tell that the top part is merely context for the second part? If the polls are not tracked somewhere, which I don't think anyone answered, then it makes sense for us to track them with screenshots to have another measure of where mafia could have potentially voted on a poll as a block. Makes no sense for them to block vote together on something that is public information at this stage of the game. So we can safely assume that if 3 guys voted mutant for example they're probably not Mafia together.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

Circumstances.
Unfortunate events was unfortunately a very weak showing from me.

The people who are good at reading me tend to read me by tone/strength of my scumreads; my tone as town/mafia is quite different (although most people struggle with picking up on it) and I tend to overextend myself as scum with some of my mislynch pushes.

You do this as town, too.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm voting Wilgy. Don't know who hasn't checked in yet, if anyone. Nor can I currently find the vote totals.

Vote Wilgy

Not gonna vote Wigly but can some explain a good reason for a town aligned player to self vote?

[Soneji]

Polls are usually kept in a separate thread Silver Lantern. That may not be the case here, so you could ask Spirityo if you're allowed to screenshot them. You said mafia don't have much reason to vote together here though, which is true but altogether an unhelpful statement that could only serve to potentially make others disassociate those voting together in the polls as being teammates. Scum on a fairly regular basis will try to seem like they're contributing by posting info that makes them look like they're being useful when in reality it's just filler disguised as activity. That is why I am questioning a lack of a real point to your statement.

[Strawhenge]

Response to Dyslexicon:

1. I flagged you but didn't vote for the same reason Jay did: to wait for your response. I did mention this, but kind of in the second degree because I was advising someone not to pile votes on you until you responded.

2. Unless the marmot has actual reason to suspect me, I wouldn't read into his vote for me too deeply. He and I have history: in the Talking Heads game I tunneled him hard out of desperation and game-fatigue. He owes me many, many lynch votes. That is, unless he has actual reasons to vote for me pertaining to this game.

3. Mentioning my paranoia was a fluff post, and not at all sincere. I haven't played Mafia in...like, a year? More? That was just me saying it was good to be back.

4. Brusquely saying, 'No,' to my posts without explanation felt almost like you were trying to alienate me or something, because I've played only one game here before. I was taking it personally, I'm disregarding it now, never mind.

5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Vote Dyslexicon

[speedchuck]

Response to Dyslexicon:
5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Don't know that I've often seen a post that gives me as many mixed feels as this one.

On the one hand, I found the false aloofness to be aggravating (though I don't blame him taking a while to get a hard-to-find link, he's busy and the game that held it was huge).
On the other hand, saying "No, you really did screw up that badly" and then blaming him for copying play from previous games (EXACTLY THE SAME PLAY AND STATEMENT) completely contradict each other. It's like:
"No, that was a slip"
then
"It's scummy to purposefully copy previous games where you were town"

WHICH IS IT? I disagree with both.
And don't tell me that he made a mistake/slip and then HAPPENED to have an example of exactly the same thing down to the number.

(Note: When I get on a rant, I might sound agro and stuff. That's just me being a disrespectful old codger. Love ya, Strawhenge. Now die.)

VOTE STRAWHENGE

[Scotty]

Response to Dyslexicon:

1. I flagged you but didn't vote for the same reason Jay did: to wait for your response. I did mention this, but kind of in the second degree because I was advising someone not to pile votes on you until you responded.

2. Unless the marmot has actual reason to suspect me, I wouldn't read into his vote for me too deeply. He and I have history: in the Talking Heads game I tunneled him hard out of desperation and game-fatigue. He owes me many, many lynch votes. That is, unless he has actual reasons to vote for me pertaining to this game.

3. Mentioning my paranoia was a fluff post, and not at all sincere. I haven't played Mafia in...like, a year? More? That was just me saying it was good to be back.

4. Brusquely saying, 'No,' to my posts without explanation felt almost like you were trying to alienate me or something, because I've played only one game here before. I was taking it personally, I'm disregarding it now, never mind.

5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Vote Dyslexicon

Did you read the link Dys posted where he made this exact "slip" not 2 weeks ago?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

[Golden]

This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN.

This deserves a sirengif

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

Unless by 'does nothing about it' you mean I didn't vote, in which case - get used to it. I'm not a prolific voter. When I host I generally make votes unchangeable. I find changeable votes do nothing that basic case making doesn't do (in fact, I think they put on less pressure than questions and cases in the thread).

[Soneji]

Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

[speedchuck]

This is what a real slip looks like.

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

Unless by 'does nothing about it' you mean I didn't vote, in which case - get used to it. I'm not a prolific voter. When I host I generally make votes unchangeable. I find changeable votes do nothing that basic case making doesn't do (in fact, I think they put on less pressure than questions and cases in the thread).

As for your first point, I blatantly disagree that his post (which yes, I edited out for brevity) looks like a slip. It looked, as I said in a previous post, about as much like a scumslip as me mentioning my "mafia buddies" or whatever in my first post.

And yeah, that's different here. Generally, where I come from, votes are thrown about willy-nilly. I feel like it's a pretty good way of pinging somebody in bolded text, getting yourself on their radar, announcing suspicion, and calling other's attention to it. The idea of being unable to change votes sounds like hell.
But hey, things are different here (or at least with you guys.) Gotcha. I get your point.

Also, people are much more forgiving of the "let's lynch lurkers D1" cry here. Apparently, most people saw one slip in Dizzy's post, where I saw three.
It must not be as obvious to those people.

[Scotty]

I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

You should vote Wilgy with me

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

You should vote Wilgy with me

Okay.

Unvote

Vote DrWilgy

Now tell me why we're doing this.

[speedchuck]

I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

"Do we have enough support to lynch this guy, or are too many people undecided or AFK?"
"Dunno, nobody's voted yet. Do you say we go for it?"
"If compelling counterevidence comes up, we'll be stuck with useless votes the rest of the day while mafia laughs at us. Let's hold off till the last minute and barely scrape by maybe."

I doubt the permavote games are that bad, but I like showing where my lynch support is. Good point.

Sorry, probably irrelevant.
I will continue taking full advantage of the vote moving as long as I live, though.

Also noted: I am curious about the KillWilgy party.

[speedchuck]

Can I change my vote on the poll?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can I change my vote on the poll?

Yes, it's changeable.

[Strawhenge]

Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

Yes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN.

This deserves a sirengif

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

I don't see what relevance the clipped information had to speedchuck's accusation. Why do you feel he should have included it?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

Yes.

As in, he didn't intend to reveal the number of scum players but did by accident?

Just to be clear.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dizzy I keep switching your pronouns around in my head; I'm sorry. I guess I'm getting it right some of the time.

[Silver Lantern]

Polls are usually kept in a separate thread Silver Lantern. That may not be the case here, so you could ask Spirityo if you're allowed to screenshot them. You said mafia don't have much reason to vote together here though, which is true but altogether an unhelpful statement that could only serve to potentially make others disassociate those voting together in the polls as being teammates. Scum on a fairly regular basis will try to seem like they're contributing by posting info that makes them look like they're being useful when in reality it's just filler disguised as activity. That is why I am questioning a lack of a real point to your statement.

Had I made only the first statement, sure, your "it's just filler statement" analysis would probably make sense.

But you're completely glossing over the fact that I placed that sentence in context in the very next sentence a sentence you also quoted along with the the sentence you're questioning. In fact, I find you're analysis quoted above to be the real "filler disguised as activity" or "mafia trying to seem helpful" way more than my original statement.

[Silver Lantern]

Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

What a great alibi for a scummer, huh?

[Strawhenge]

Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

Yes.

As in, he didn't intend to reveal the number of scum players but did by accident?

Just to be clear.

Yes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes.

My old friend, my ancient pre-Celtic monument with a twist, I am befuddled. I struggle to understand how you can have this perspective with present information available. So this is to say, with further logical progression:

You believe that Dyslexicon made a mistake, and just happened to have a reference available a prior game with a very similar post in which there was no mistake? As in, the existence of that prior example was good fortune rather than an indicator of personality or play style?

[Jackofhearts2005]

And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

Caught up to this point. Still feel this way about all these players.

Feeling positive towards Fred but that may just be because I want him to play more better (i.e. more scumhunting, less waiting around for night results) and I know he's capable of playing more better cause he's a bright fellow (falling into the middle of the "clutch realmser" tier who can solve games once all the clues are out but rarely gets out there and creates the clues during the day) and I see him trying to play more better.

But does that make him a townie? "Probably" says other people. "We'll see" says me. Same for Silver but with the added fearless townie bonus.

I don't like Nachos's "okay, I've found scum" and "these folks are obviously town" posts. Like, bro, you had me fooled last game but I don't get the impression you're THAT good, know what I mean? Has Sorsha/Sonjei's problem of me only ever playing with scum Nacho (and 10 years ago over the top bulldog townie Nacho) so I can't answer "but would he do this anyway as a townie?"

Loving everything from JJJ and Nutella


Half rainbow:
GREEN
Jack
JTrips
Nut
Silver
No avatar guy. Speedchuck?
LIGHT GREEN
Quin
Fred
Golden
YELLOW
Marmot
LC
Sig
ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

What a great alibi for a scummer, huh?

Do you believe the intent behind the maneuver was to be able to refer to that alibi?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I should probably start asking questions.

Silver/Quin/Fred/LC, gtth read someone in my light green to orange area, would you?

I need more evaluation from the players I've played with the most so I can evaluate your evaluations.

[Nachomamma8]

Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.

[Strawhenge]

@Jay: I believe he made a mistake here, yes.

And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were. So, what I think happened is that Dyslexicon slipped, remembered a very recent time that he made that claim, and pointed to it as meta.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

[Golden]

Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

What a great alibi for a scummer, huh?

I do think it is alignment neutral. I am not giving him civ cred for it, but i do think that it was conclusively intentional.