The Hobbit Mafia: Day 12

[kneel4justice]

This argument right here. You can't see why it's suspicious that you would hide your suspicions until the last second, when you expect the chance to discuss accusations against yourself? You don't see why it seems phony to go back and pick up something someone else actually said at the time and fill it into a cryptic comment you made before the lynch went down? You don't see why people are suggesting that you could have purposely waited to give yourself civ points by voting for a doomed teammate?

I'm not guarenteeing that you are his teammate. I don't know. I try to look for a collection of evidence, not just one post. And that doesn't mean that everything you say is off. If you want me to go back and look for other things, I will. Unfortunately, I can't do it right away.

I don't think I was hiding my suspicions. I was waiting to see before I jumped on a townie too soon or tipped off a scum, do you not see what is townie about that? I didn't even see anyone say what I said, except I did see MP's comment which caused Epi to start talking. And I wouldn't pick up on a scums comment either. I think you're referring to FZ. Didn't even know she suspected Epi until today, but whatever. Believe what you want.
I see the voting for a doomed teammate but why that is being paired with my suspicion of Epi makes no sense. I could have voted for Epi that night so I didn't have to end up voting for a teammate if I was really scum with MP. I do think at least some people are reaching with that one.

[FZ.]

MP was a goner when I posted my support of him, he was ahead by like three votes with eight minutes to go. Why would I do that if he were my teammate and was clearly going to flip bad when I could just as easily say I suspect him? This argument makes no sense. I get why you say it if you take MPs posts and vote alone, but if you consider the whole picture and how it unfolded, it does not hold water.

Also,what I think everyone should keep in mind is that I am dating MP, and when he learned he was likely going to be lynched, I witnessed first hand his reaction. To say he was upset is an understatement. We both had a very stressful time recently and had stepped away from mafia to deal with our own stuff. I don't think any of you realize how close the site came to losing him completely. So he was finally getting excited to come back and play again, getting into it again. I wasn't sure that was going to happen. So when he saw he was getting lynched on Day 1 he was livid. I don't say any of this to condemn anyone for voting for him or whatever. He was a Baddie and had to go at some point. I just want to give you perspective on why I said what I said. I would never have said anything about his reaction in person in this thread, except now to explain that my defense of him was like i said, born mostly out of empathy to what he was feeling at that moment. At that point I had no reason to suspect him,it struck me as normal MP because I know him, he kind of swings between two courses of action. Careful consideration and reckless impetuousness. Mafia can bring out that second side that he exercises with less frequency in his day to day life. So no, tossing a vote on me was not too horribly surprising to me. In fact, I wondered if I would come back to find myself lynched,not him. I'm glad he flipped bad. I still feel bad he got lynched Day 1 on his first game back after his hiatus and in a game hosted by one of his closest friends. But I am glad a Baddie role was eliminated.

Does that answer the suspicion against me adequately?

This makes me sad. I hope MP still comes to play next game even if he's busy. I already feel his absence.

[FZ.]

Okay, I'm out. I'll be back tomorrow to place my vote and then I'll be back on Saturday.


linki:@ I'm thinking that my assumption that K4J couldn't be on MP's team was wrong. And if we're looking at the list of players who voted for MP and reasonably thinking that one of the late voters could be on his team, he's my best option. Because like TH pointed out, the way he said he didn't have time to catch up, yet voted for MP even though he planned on voting for Epig, but now is saying he saw he posted good posts, doesn't make sense and seems like a lie


And now, good night

I'm slowly going to lose it. Lol
Seriously, what doesn't make sense? Everything I have said has made sense. Tell me how me saying I planned for voting for Epi because he was so quiet, but changed my mind when he started posting heavily and building cases doesn't make sense. Wait, you can't because YOU'RE not making sense. How does that seem like a lie? I'm lost.
As for me not having time to catch up, I was in the car, with 13% battery, I didn't know if I was going to have time. I made it home and had about 20 minutes to skim the thread (amongst doing other things non-game related and so I made my decision).

Okay, I missed the 20 minutes part, though for me, it takes longer, maybe because English is not my native language...but when I read the other post it seemed weird that you didn't have time to read yet you managed to decide Epig did good enough to sway you away from voting for him, and MP became your first choice.
As for the wow about thinking the same, it's been a while since we had such an identical thought about someone and while this is something that usually makes me feel good about you, I'm hesitant. The way you found really weird reasons to suspect me, and even started out agreeing with MP, only to then take it back. Then, my "panic attack" near the end of the lynch got you worried, like it's something that's never happened to me, and like there were no good reasons for it...
Not sure what I think now. I think there's probably a scum buddy on MP's vote list, because at some point it was certain he was going down, and the timing of your vote with all things surrounding that seems quite compelling.

[Kylemii]

i checked this thread this morning and now i'm already 200 posts behind o_o

this thread moves quick

[FZ.]

Yay, I'm caught up! It's been a distracting evening. And I tend to get bogged down in the details and never get around to sharing my thoughts.

I found it amusing that k4j and FZ kind of went after each other a couple of pages ago, because I don't trust either of them. I think they both handled the last lynch poll in shady ways (FZ: Oh, maybe I'll vote for MP, so you guys better be right. Then, who should I vote for? Then, hey do you have someone else to vote for in the last ten minutes? Then, I am going with either Vomps or Daisy. Then no voting at all. [CBK paraphrase]), and both of their posts have come across as insincere or defensive with weak arguments.

The point that you're missing, k4j, is that you never said you were suspicious of Epi when it was happening. It's just too convenient to mention a mysterious suspicion and then suddenly change course last second and then go back and fill in the story.

Am I missing something?

By the way, I'm enjoying the game, and no one has offended me. You can try if you want though.

I never said I was suspicious of Epi, I labeled it mysterious so that I wouldn't tip him off on what he needed to do to change my mind. I did not say afterwards because I didn't really want him knowing what I categorize as civvie behavior for him (for future games) but since I was asked, I shared. I also think that the shift is evidently clear that I am being honest because when I said I was suspicious he wasn't participating much and when I said I'm no longer suspicious he had started posting. I don't see the problem and I find people are making a big deal out of it. So I said I was confident in a vote, but changed my mind, what's suspicious? Why am I benefiting from that if I am scum?

And I don't think my arguments are weak. Please point me to a weak argument, I think my points are strong and I want to prove it so people will listen instead of continuing on and joining a bandwagon.
Don't think I can defend the insincere thing but it doesn't make sense to me lol

This argument right here. You can't see why it's suspicious that you would hide your suspicions until the last second, when you expect the chance to discuss accusations against yourself? You don't see why it seems phony to go back and pick up something someone else actually said at the time and fill it into a cryptic comment you made before the lynch went down? You don't see why people are suggesting that you could have purposely waited to give yourself civ points by voting for a doomed teammate?

I'm not guarenteeing that you are his teammate. I don't know. I try to look for a collection of evidence, not just one post. And that doesn't mean that everything you say is off. If you want me to go back and look for other things, I will. Unfortunately, I can't do it right away.

Well, I can't defend my hesitation for voting MP more than I have. If you find that insincere, I can't do anything about it. I said I trusted MP more than others when the game started moving, because he felt like genuinely trying to progress the game, so later on, even when I felt he was starting to get all over the place, I thought there was a good chance he was a civvie being scapegoated for his behavior, and I was trying to save him, but not feeling sure about it. I was wrong, but it doesn't make me bad.

As for K4J, the fact he didn't share his thoughts on Epig is the last thing that worries me. We do that plenty, because you have a hunch and you want to see how that person is going to act. If he'd come out with his reasons for suspecting him so early, he wouldn't have known if it was a reaction to what he said. At least that was what I thought when not saying who I was keeping an eye on. Is this your way of jumping on a bandwagon of suspicion by trying to give your "original" thoughts about it and not appearing like you're bandwagoning?

[FZ.]

Reywas, I'm sorry if I offended you, but up until now, I don't think you've said anything substantial about the game, and who you're suspicious of. All I see from you is defending yourself and making jokes. To me, defending yourself without giving anything else, screams of badness. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but you're very high on my suspect list. Your recent posts just make me feel stronger about it

I don't know what your problem is. I explained why I was hesitant in voting MP. It felt like the votes were piling up on him, which is something I'm not used to here, and while I started feeling less sure he was a civvie in the last day or so, I started out feeling he was the most civvie of them all, the way he progressed the game, so I was still hesitant to call him a baddie, not to mention my stupid tendency to view people who are suspicious of me as more civ 'than baddie. Anyway, that was what was going on through my mind, and you of all people should be able to get me in situations like this. This is the second time you've said something that I really don't expect you to say, and it's starting to worry me. If you'd said I could be on MP's team, I'd know you're bad , but saying I might be on the other team is clever enough to make me hesitate on this.

I do not like how you replied to me, 'I don't know what your problem is' as if what I am saying has no value. I am saying I did not get the same vibe as you did. I was not all that concerned with the votes for MP being 'too many' as you were. I was not scrambling at deadline trying to come up with an alternative as you were. What I am saying is, if we were of the same alignment based on our track record I should have at least felt similar to the way you did. It's a vibes thing. We often think the same or similar and you know this. So me having a completely opposite reaction to the lynch as you did, pings me. I think even you should have seen that while MP was suspecting you, he was doing it with an agenda. He called you insincere when you had barely any posts and thoughts to be insincere about. Yes you feel better about those who suspect you, but you also see through fake suspicions and you weren't doing that here. Which is why I'm having trouble seeing you as a civvie right now. Now you're starting to get worried about me, well ok but I don't see why and it feels kind of empty. I really don't see your points, probably because you're counteracting mine which I feel are more credible than you're giving them. Or rather, not credit but you should at least be able to understand what I'm saying.

First of all, after last game where we went head to head as civvies on the first day, and then you got recruited and I started trusting you, it changed things for me. Sorry, can't help it.
So you're allowed to think my suspicions are "empty", yet I can't feel yours are absurd? I didn't mean to sound rude in the "what is your problem" comment. I meant to say that I really don't get what you didn't see. Yes, I feel different from you regarding how the lynch went down. I'm still pretty sure there were baddies voting for him from the other team as well, so the fact that people got lucky with the lynch doesn't mean there weren't some bad people around that lynch. And I can't bother with the are we seeing things the same way or not line of thought anymore. It's proven false. At least some time. So either you're bad, or we're just not seeing things the same way. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for this day, though you're on my suspect list, but we'll see

[Lizzy]

Also, another form of distancing is throwing your teammate under the bus. I wonder if we there's at least one of MP's teammates in those 6 that voted for him.

An interesting thought.

Turnip Head (18), Hedgeowl (19), juliets (20), Captain Bunny Killer (21), kneel4justice (23), Epignosis (24) 25%

I don't believe Rob and MP were on a team (if they were, they would have won by now) and TH and Hedgeowl's votes would have been too risky for teammates, but you may be onto something with juliets, CBK or K4J.

I just find it interesting how the votes came pouring in. Only the 22nd vote is missing from that bandwagon, and that's Snowy's. I wonder if there isn't at least one baddie from the other team who decided to join in though.

Linki - thanks, Rob.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at here. Could you clarify for me?

Well, we were discussing the possibility of at least one of MP's teammates throwing him under the bus for credibility, which means at least one baddie in that group of 6. However, looking at how the votes for Alex came pouring in: 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, 24 - that's what I would call a bandwagon, if I ever saw one. It's quite convenient for at least one baddie from the other team to add another nail in the coffin, just to be sure none of their teammates is in actual danger. I would say though that more than one from the other team would be too risky if the Sock happened to flip civ. So, using this logic, there is a possibility that there is at least one baddie from each side in that group of 6.

The points brought up about K4J are pretty solid, corroborated with the fact that MP's fate was pretty much sealed when he decided to vote for him.

And then there's this when he only had ONE vote and there were still 20 something people left to vote and he wasn't really under scrutiny:

Let me find out y'all trying to 'randomize' me out of this game!

Then the already famous sudden change of heart:

I voted for MP. Not as sure as I would like but in the time I had to catch up he did some weird things. I did think it was strange people actually agreed with my points on INH and Dom did to MP. I'm not sure if they used it to pilot a vote or not. But yeah, voted for MP. Sorry MP, I wish I felt better about you because I've missed playing with you a lot but some things you've done just do not feel genuine or from a townie mind set.

... and right after there was this:

I do no see what is bad about Daisy's vote. Seems like it makes sense to me. If I had chose to vote for INH, that would be my reason.

So which is it? Is it strange people agreed with you on INH or is it okay they did and ended up voting for him? Your game and explanations at the moment remind me quite a bit of Exodus, to be honest.

I also agree with CBK about the interaction between K4J and FZ, going after each other this early in the game, which seems like a way of distancing themselves from each other. However, while I'm not feeling great about FZ, I'm not seeing a baddie atm.

Vomps' remark about Dom gives me break though. I need a few more days to form a proper opinion, but he's more careful than usual, which again, suggests he has a role that requires a certain degree of responsibility, and we know the baddies aren't the only ones with BTSC.

On Goosey, I noticed this:

Random: Matt is being chatty. And I like that. Sometimes he is like that when he is being managed on a team (Lizzy has handled him quite well in the past, for instance), but I think it's more than he was called out (and Vomperdoodle) for not being as helpful as he could. Matt's a realllllly smart guy, so I'm hoping it's just him feeling comfortable enough to participate more. Mattmatt, I hope you don't take offense of any of that. I know it doesn't sound very polite to insinuate someone is being coached, but that's not precisely what I mean (V&A wouldn't mind being coached by L, if you know what they mean).

Matt has not been chatty and he only made a slightly on topic post which is his last, and this to me looks like a tacit manner of bringing VAL up again. Baddies tend to use VAL as a scapegoat, doncha no.

On Marshy, I know you've also been away, but I have to agree with Llama, there isn't a lot of helpful content in your posts, and I know what you can do as both a helpful civilian and a more reserved baddie. I miss Jennet tbh. (although I can't complain about the zombie date with Polaris either )

Snowy seems to be having keyboard issues.

Also, why are so many people offended and taking things personally? Loosen up k. You only have the right to be offended if you outed Apocalypse, single-handedly lynched a baddie and pointed out another one, be civ friendly in general, be absent for a couple of days and ask people not to kill you, yet they do it anyway without giving you the chance to defend yourself because omg cereal killer.

Feck, that's a long post.

[FZ.]

I think I read everything.

At the moment, I'm willing to vote for one of the following:
1. Reywas, who hasn't voiced a single suspicion and the only serious posts I see from him is when he's trying to defend himself. I don't think we've played together, so I don't know if this is his usual MO, but to me, someone who focuses only on defending himself, is more likely a baddie.

2. Mongoose- I agree with llama that her posts carry the scent of scum hunting, but when you look into them, they are kind of tasteless And I'm mean that in the nicest way possible (and not rude).

3. K4J- I admit, I hate voting for K4J with a passion, because when he is a civ, he's very valuable to the civvies. I'm not concerned by his "hiding" his suspicions for Epig, because I totally get that, and I actually did that myself. And actually, the fact he doesn't think I'm on MP's team doesn't surprise me. He knows my baddie game better than anyone here, and I think I tried defending a team mate once and it ended up so bad, that I just went back to throwing them under the bus and doing it much faster. I'd probably vote second for MP, lol. That said, he knows I know he knows, so if he implied that, I would just be more sure he's a baddie. So I don't know if it's because he's bad or not, but I think his very minor suspicion for MP coupled with the fact that I think it's highly likely there's someone from MP in the voters and his timing seems the most appropriate for a baddie from the team makes him look more baddie than a civvie at this point. Add to that the way his reasons for suspecting me just seem forced to me (there's the one in the beginning where he went back on), and I just might vote for him after all.

I could also see myself persuaded to vote for MM or INH because they too have been posting but not saying much. And INH's just answered our questions about what he thought of the votes on him and suspicions with an "emotional" reply and not with an analyzing one, so it didn't make me feel good about him.

There's also Vompatti, but I seem to be the only one thinking he's a baddie, and while I really don't get that kind of play style, I'm tired of trying to get it or do something about it if I'm the only one.


If anyone stops by anytime soon, let me know who you think of voting for. I don't want my vote to go to waste, so while I'll probably be the first voter since I need to leave for my vacation, I want to hear what people are planning to do

linki: @ Hey Lizzie, so are you going to vote for K4J?

[Leamiteo]

Yes, but not because of the lynch chance, but because it tips his hand (and made some of us infer they were teamies).

I don't feel this way at all, and it makes me distrustful of you, making assumptions that seem to be based off of huge leaps. Therefore, you have my .

Oh jeez, it wasn't an assumption. Just trying to analyze how some things went down. I was positing forth a particular stance, and I am not sure I even ratified that opinion as my own yet.

I feel like this has been the most conversation-squashing, overly critical game ever. I think some of the things said to other players (not by you, Lea) are borderline rude. Why would I want to analyze or synthesis any of the data we have or posit forth any theories (ridiculous or credible), if I'm going to have a bunch of you checking off squares on a rubric for how XYZ it is? The more I think about it, I think this underhanded post review system is Neo Baddie Tactic 2.1

I'd like to get back to having some fun please.[/quote]

This is my first game in a year, so I am having fun! I would agree with others that this has tended to be a touchy game...I don't mean to be a fun crusher Mongoose, I was just writing out snippets of thoughts because I was crunched on time. Sorry if it felt abrupt and abrasive to you, that was not my attempt, I meant only to say I doubt MP and Daisy are teamies based on that alone and that it was kind of a big jump to make. I'm a people pleaser, so please love me! It's below the last thing on my list to make people feel badly.

OK, so I have to get to work, but hope to catch up and post later! I just saw your response and wanted to reply asap.

[Russtifinko]

Quick note: rules have been updated to indicate that double-targeting is not allowed. This isn't a change to game rules, just a correction of a previous oversight. And since we've only had one Night, it doesn't affect anything that has occurred so far.

[S~V~S]

Good Morning lovely players

Always remember, lets respect each other. And, if someone feels the need to say you have an attitude more than once, perhaps you do.

By the same token, if more than one person says you are being oversensitive, perhaps they are right.

Most of all, if you feel that someone is taking it beyond the realm of game related comments, and is making YOU related comments, don't take it to the thread, take it to me.

If anyone feels that this was directed at them, maybe they should throttle the 'tude back a bit. Although tbh, had it been directed at any individual, they would have gotten a PM already.

Just a friendly reminder~ and I have a whip, and am not afraid to use it Edit~ actually that is a stick, but you get the point I am sure

[insertnamehere]

Hey INH, good to see you. Did you have anything to say to those (such as myself) who questioned your intentions on Day 1?

Frankly, I'm offended that Juliet and co. took what I said so personally. I've known juliets online for maybe three years, and the fact that she still can't tell when I'm being ironically offended, wounds me. I thought that you all would have known by now that sometimes I'm not serious when I say things in a weird, sad attempt at humor. The fact that she took it so seriously, and even resorted to name-calling speaks volumes about her character.

ummm...

So....is this an ironic character assassination?

As always, I am 100% serious.

[reywaS]

Reywas, I'm sorry if I offended you, but up until now, I don't think you've said anything substantial about the game, and who you're suspicious of. All I see from you is defending yourself and making jokes. To me, defending yourself without giving anything else, screams of badness. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but you're very high on my suspect list. Your recent posts just make me feel stronger about it

I don't know what your problem is. I explained why I was hesitant in voting MP. It felt like the votes were piling up on him, which is something I'm not used to here, and while I started feeling less sure he was a civvie in the last day or so, I started out feeling he was the most civvie of them all, the way he progressed the game, so I was still hesitant to call him a baddie, not to mention my stupid tendency to view people who are suspicious of me as more civ 'than baddie. Anyway, that was what was going on through my mind, and you of all people should be able to get me in situations like this. This is the second time you've said something that I really don't expect you to say, and it's starting to worry me. If you'd said I could be on MP's team, I'd know you're bad , but saying I might be on the other team is clever enough to make me hesitate on this.

I do not like how you replied to me, 'I don't know what your problem is' as if what I am saying has no value. I am saying I did not get the same vibe as you did. I was not all that concerned with the votes for MP being 'too many' as you were. I was not scrambling at deadline trying to come up with an alternative as you were. What I am saying is, if we were of the same alignment based on our track record I should have at least felt similar to the way you did. It's a vibes thing. We often think the same or similar and you know this. So me having a completely opposite reaction to the lynch as you did, pings me. I think even you should have seen that while MP was suspecting you, he was doing it with an agenda. He called you insincere when you had barely any posts and thoughts to be insincere about. Yes you feel better about those who suspect you, but you also see through fake suspicions and you weren't doing that here. Which is why I'm having trouble seeing you as a civvie right now. Now you're starting to get worried about me, well ok but I don't see why and it feels kind of empty. I really don't see your points, probably because you're counteracting mine which I feel are more credible than you're giving them. Or rather, not credit but you should at least be able to understand what I'm saying.

First of all, after last game where we went head to head as civvies on the first day, and then you got recruited and I started trusting you, it changed things for me. Sorry, can't help it.
So you're allowed to think my suspicions are "empty", yet I can't feel yours are absurd? I didn't mean to sound rude in the "what is your problem" comment. I meant to say that I really don't get what you didn't see. Yes, I feel different from you regarding how the lynch went down. I'm still pretty sure there were baddies voting for him from the other team as well, so the fact that people got lucky with the lynch doesn't mean there weren't some bad people around that lynch. And I can't bother with the are we seeing things the same way or not line of thought anymore. It's proven false. At least some time. So either you're bad, or we're just not seeing things the same way. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for this day, though you're on my suspect list, but we'll see

I wasn't really offended. I take great pride in being high on people's suspect lists when I'm not a baddie. So list away.

[reywaS]

Also, another form of distancing is throwing your teammate under the bus. I wonder if we there's at least one of MP's teammates in those 6 that voted for him.

An interesting thought.

Turnip Head (18), Hedgeowl (19), juliets (20), Captain Bunny Killer (21), kneel4justice (23), Epignosis (24) 25%

I don't believe Rob and MP were on a team (if they were, they would have won by now) and TH and Hedgeowl's votes would have been too risky for teammates, but you may be onto something with juliets, CBK or K4J.

I just find it interesting how the votes came pouring in. Only the 22nd vote is missing from that bandwagon, and that's Snowy's. I wonder if there isn't at least one baddie from the other team who decided to join in though.

Linki - thanks, Rob.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at here. Could you clarify for me?

Well, we were discussing the possibility of at least one of MP's teammates throwing him under the bus for credibility, which means at least one baddie in that group of 6. However, looking at how the votes for Alex came pouring in: 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, 24 - that's what I would call a bandwagon, if I ever saw one. It's quite convenient for at least one baddie from the other team to add another nail in the coffin, just to be sure none of their teammates is in actual danger. I would say though that more than one from the other team would be too risky if the Sock happened to flip civ. So, using this logic, there is a possibility that there is at least one baddie from each side in that group of 6.

The points brought up about K4J are pretty solid, corroborated with the fact that MP's fate was pretty much sealed when he decided to vote for him.

And then there's this when he only had ONE vote and there were still 20 something people left to vote and he wasn't really under scrutiny:

Let me find out y'all trying to 'randomize' me out of this game!

Then the already famous sudden change of heart:

I voted for MP. Not as sure as I would like but in the time I had to catch up he did some weird things. I did think it was strange people actually agreed with my points on INH and Dom did to MP. I'm not sure if they used it to pilot a vote or not. But yeah, voted for MP. Sorry MP, I wish I felt better about you because I've missed playing with you a lot but some things you've done just do not feel genuine or from a townie mind set.

... and right after there was this:

I do no see what is bad about Daisy's vote. Seems like it makes sense to me. If I had chose to vote for INH, that would be my reason.

So which is it? Is it strange people agreed with you on INH or is it okay they did and ended up voting for him? Your game and explanations at the moment remind me quite a bit of Exodus, to be honest.

I also agree with CBK about the interaction between K4J and FZ, going after each other this early in the game, which seems like a way of distancing themselves from each other. However, while I'm not feeling great about FZ, I'm not seeing a baddie atm.

Vomps' remark about Dom gives me break though. I need a few more days to form a proper opinion, but he's more careful than usual, which again, suggests he has a role that requires a certain degree of responsibility, and we know the baddies aren't the only ones with BTSC.

On Goosey, I noticed this:

Random: Matt is being chatty. And I like that. Sometimes he is like that when he is being managed on a team (Lizzy has handled him quite well in the past, for instance), but I think it's more than he was called out (and Vomperdoodle) for not being as helpful as he could. Matt's a realllllly smart guy, so I'm hoping it's just him feeling comfortable enough to participate more. Mattmatt, I hope you don't take offense of any of that. I know it doesn't sound very polite to insinuate someone is being coached, but that's not precisely what I mean (V&A wouldn't mind being coached by L, if you know what they mean).

Matt has not been chatty and he only made a slightly on topic post which is his last, and this to me looks like a tacit manner of bringing VAL up again. Baddies tend to use VAL as a scapegoat, doncha no.

On Marshy, I know you've also been away, but I have to agree with Llama, there isn't a lot of helpful content in your posts, and I know what you can do as both a helpful civilian and a more reserved baddie. I miss Jennet tbh. (although I can't complain about the zombie date with Polaris either )

Snowy seems to be having keyboard issues.

Also, why are so many people offended and taking things personally? Loosen up k. You only have the right to be offended if you outed Apocalypse, single-handedly lynched a baddie and pointed out another one, be civ friendly in general, be absent for a couple of days and ask people not to kill you, yet they do it anyway without giving you the chance to defend yourself because omg cereal killer.

Feck, that's a long post.

Ok, I see what you were getting at. I didn't understand what you meant about the other team joining a bandwagon. I thought you were saying that they likely knew that MP was a baddie somehow. Thanks for clarifying!

[reywaS]

I think I read everything.

At the moment, I'm willing to vote for one of the following:
1. Reywas, who hasn't voiced a single suspicion and the only serious posts I see from him is when he's trying to defend himself. I don't think we've played together, so I don't know if this is his usual MO, but to me, someone who focuses only on defending himself, is more likely a baddie.

2. Mongoose- I agree with llama that her posts carry the scent of scum hunting, but when you look into them, they are kind of tasteless And I'm mean that in the nicest way possible (and not rude).

3. K4J- I admit, I hate voting for K4J with a passion, because when he is a civ, he's very valuable to the civvies. I'm not concerned by his "hiding" his suspicions for Epig, because I totally get that, and I actually did that myself. And actually, the fact he doesn't think I'm on MP's team doesn't surprise me. He knows my baddie game better than anyone here, and I think I tried defending a team mate once and it ended up so bad, that I just went back to throwing them under the bus and doing it much faster. I'd probably vote second for MP, lol. That said, he knows I know he knows, so if he implied that, I would just be more sure he's a baddie. So I don't know if it's because he's bad or not, but I think his very minor suspicion for MP coupled with the fact that I think it's highly likely there's someone from MP in the voters and his timing seems the most appropriate for a baddie from the team makes him look more baddie than a civvie at this point. Add to that the way his reasons for suspecting me just seem forced to me (there's the one in the beginning where he went back on), and I just might vote for him after all.

I could also see myself persuaded to vote for MM or INH because they too have been posting but not saying much. And INH's just answered our questions about what he thought of the votes on him and suspicions with an "emotional" reply and not with an analyzing one, so it didn't make me feel good about him.

There's also Vompatti, but I seem to be the only one thinking he's a baddie, and while I really don't get that kind of play style, I'm tired of trying to get it or do something about it if I'm the only one.


If anyone stops by anytime soon, let me know who you think of voting for. I don't want my vote to go to waste, so while I'll probably be the first voter since I need to leave for my vacation, I want to hear what people are planning to do

linki: @ Hey Lizzie, so are you going to vote for K4J?

2 notes for you.

1. I think you are exaggerating a bit that I am defending myself so much.

2. I disagree with your accusation that my only serious posts are the ones where I'm defending myself.

bonus note: I think you are looking for an easy vote today.

[FZ.]

I think I read everything.

At the moment, I'm willing to vote for one of the following:
1. Reywas, who hasn't voiced a single suspicion and the only serious posts I see from him is when he's trying to defend himself. I don't think we've played together, so I don't know if this is his usual MO, but to me, someone who focuses only on defending himself, is more likely a baddie.

2. Mongoose- I agree with llama that her posts carry the scent of scum hunting, but when you look into them, they are kind of tasteless And I'm mean that in the nicest way possible (and not rude).

3. K4J- I admit, I hate voting for K4J with a passion, because when he is a civ, he's very valuable to the civvies. I'm not concerned by his "hiding" his suspicions for Epig, because I totally get that, and I actually did that myself. And actually, the fact he doesn't think I'm on MP's team doesn't surprise me. He knows my baddie game better than anyone here, and I think I tried defending a team mate once and it ended up so bad, that I just went back to throwing them under the bus and doing it much faster. I'd probably vote second for MP, lol. That said, he knows I know he knows, so if he implied that, I would just be more sure he's a baddie. So I don't know if it's because he's bad or not, but I think his very minor suspicion for MP coupled with the fact that I think it's highly likely there's someone from MP in the voters and his timing seems the most appropriate for a baddie from the team makes him look more baddie than a civvie at this point. Add to that the way his reasons for suspecting me just seem forced to me (there's the one in the beginning where he went back on), and I just might vote for him after all.

I could also see myself persuaded to vote for MM or INH because they too have been posting but not saying much. And INH's just answered our questions about what he thought of the votes on him and suspicions with an "emotional" reply and not with an analyzing one, so it didn't make me feel good about him.

There's also Vompatti, but I seem to be the only one thinking he's a baddie, and while I really don't get that kind of play style, I'm tired of trying to get it or do something about it if I'm the only one.


If anyone stops by anytime soon, let me know who you think of voting for. I don't want my vote to go to waste, so while I'll probably be the first voter since I need to leave for my vacation, I want to hear what people are planning to do

linki: @ Hey Lizzie, so are you going to vote for K4J?

2 notes for you.

1. I think you are exaggerating a bit that I am defending myself so much.

2. I disagree with your accusation that my only serious posts are the ones where I'm defending myself.

bonus note: I think you are looking for an easy vote today.

And here you are, defending yourself again
And good job, you actually managed to find someone suspicious- me for going after you. That's got to be your most serious post. A little too late, and too much of a NO U. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.

I don't think I'm looking for an easy vote. I actually gave a list of people and reasons. What have you done? I said I was willing to vote for any of those people, but you haven't addressed any of them, but only talked about yourself. How is that supposed to make me feel better about you?

[Russtifinko]

Just wanted to remind everyone about Rule 10 quickly!

"10) You have to be sarcastic all the time or else. Seriously though, sarcastic orange is encouraged for sarcasm."

Tone can be tough in text-based communication, and so I heartily approve the use of sarcastic orange in any message that is not heartfelt. This helps prevent things being taken too personally. For example:

Not sarcastic: In extreme cases where sarcastic orange is not used and a post is particularly sarcastic, and it is either caustic or is taken personally, fines may be meted out to the offending party at my discretion. Also S~V~S may get cross, and you wouldn't want that.
Sarcastic: Sarcastic posts that aren't orange will result in me rubbing a porcupine on the offending party's face. They would make S~V~S mad though, and that would be a GREAT idea.

Thanks! Carry on. Glad to see everyone is so into the game, by the way!

[thellama73]

What happened to positive reinforcement, Russ?

[thellama73]

Okay, seven hours till the poll closes and here are my thoughts this morning:

Dom has been exceptionally conciliatory to me since I said I might vote for him, asking my opinion, sympathizing with me, and so forth. This is understandable and wise on his part, and it does not necessarily make him bad. Civvies want to avoid taking votes as much as baddies. Still, it stuck out to me enough to keep him on my watch list. That being said, it has been very pleasant playing with you, Dom!

I am less interested in voting for MetalMarsh today for reasons I can't quite articulate. Something about his responses has made me less inclined to give him my vote today.

Mongoose has seemed uncharacteristically defensive, which, along with my earlier points, makes her the most suspicious in my eyes. If nothing else emerges, she will probably get my vote today.

I look forward to the opinions of others as the day progresses.

[juliets]

llama if you have already answered this my apologies, but what do you think about k4j?

Also, is there anything else about Mongoose besides your opinion that she's been more defensive than normal? I will go back through her posts since I haven't seen this point brought up before but I just wonder if there's not something else, even small, that you are seeing.

[Snow Dog]

Mongoosedoesseem defensive but asyousay it's an edgygame. I'm gonnause my other lAPTOP this sucks

[Snow Dog]

llama if you have already answered this my apologies, but what do you think about k4j?

Also, is there anything else about Mongoose besides your opinion that she's been more defensive than normal? I will go back through her posts since I haven't seen this point brought up before but I just wonder if there's not something else, even small, that you are seeing.

What made youback offfrom voting INH?

[juliets]

llama if you have already answered this my apologies, but what do you think about k4j?

Also, is there anything else about Mongoose besides your opinion that she's been more defensive than normal? I will go back through her posts since I haven't seen this point brought up before but I just wonder if there's not something else, even small, that you are seeing.

What made youback offfrom voting INH?

The only thing that had me suspicious about INH is how defensive he was but others convinced me that he is that way no matter his alignment so I dropped my suspicion of him. I know you voted him - do you still carry suspicion of him?

[FZ.]

Before I make my vote. Does anyone but me think Reyway is acting very scummy?

[Russtifinko]

What happened to positive reinforcement, Russ?

Well I believe in it, but I'm not a slave to it. You'll notice that violating at least 3 of my rules can result in instant death.

[FZ.]

Okay, since I'm going now on my vacation, I have to vote. I would really like to lynch Reywas, but no one seems to want to follow, so I'm left with either K4J or Mongoose who might get others' vote . I feel the stronger case if for K4J, and as much as I want him here playing, I can't let that go. Kitty, if you're a civ, I'm really sorry, but I have to make a decision now.

See you all on Saturday

[thellama73]

llama if you have already answered this my apologies, but what do you think about k4j?

Also, is there anything else about Mongoose besides your opinion that she's been more defensive than normal? I will go back through her posts since I haven't seen this point brought up before but I just wonder if there's not something else, even small, that you are seeing.

Yes, my main argument against her has been that her posts have had the appearance of substance without actually containing any. It's a common mafia trick to look like you're hunting when in fact you are not.

I have never been successful at reading k4j, and the fact that the posts are written in blue makes it hard for me to read them. So to be honest, I have not been paying that much attention to her. I haven't really picked up on any red flags, except for the fact that she's been pretty aggressive, but coming from K-Site that doesn't seem to be unusual.

FZ: I have seen Rey's baddie game a few times, and I think you may be onto something, but I am not confident about it yet.

[Dom]

Vomps' remark about Dom gives me break though. I need a few more days to form a proper opinion, but he's more careful than usual, which again, suggests he has a role that requires a certain degree of responsibility, and we know the baddies aren't the only ones with BTSC.

.

Lizzy, are you talking about me or Vomps here?

Okay, seven hours till the poll closes and here are my thoughts this morning:

Dom has been exceptionally conciliatory to me since I said I might vote for him, asking my opinion, sympathizing with me, and so forth. This is understandable and wise on his part, and it does not necessarily make him bad. Civvies want to avoid taking votes as much as baddies. Still, it stuck out to me enough to keep him on my watch list. That being said, it has been very pleasant playing with you, Dom!

I am less interested in voting for MetalMarsh today for reasons I can't quite articulate. Something about his responses has made me less inclined to give him my vote today.

Mongoose has seemed uncharacteristically defensive, which, along with my earlier points, makes her the most suspicious in my eyes. If nothing else emerges, she will probably get my vote today.

I look forward to the opinions of others as the day progresses.

Llama, I will say that I have been exceptionally conciliatory because I do not think you are bad as of yet.

[thellama73]

Llama, I will say that I have been exceptionally conciliatory because I do not think you are bad as of yet.

Thanks! You're right, I'm not.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Before I make my vote. Does anyone but me think Reyway is acting very scummy?

You know, the difficult thing about this whole you vs. k4j thing is that I find you more questionable. I mentioned you both last night but focused on k4j, because he was there to question me about it. You, on the other hand, announced that you would be leaving, so I thought it only polite to hold off. Then you kept talking for a long time. Thanks for the advance warning, but I'm returning the favor.

[Lizzy]

linki: @ Hey Lizzie, so are you going to vote for K4J?

It's the best I have thus far, but I'm waiting to see if anything else happens before I vote.

Sarcastic: Sarcastic posts that aren't orange will result in me rubbing a porcupine on the offending party's face. They would make S~V~S mad though, and that would be a GREAT idea.

You have no idea how sad I am this is in orange.

Lizzy, are you talking about me or Vomps here?

Both actually, but I was going to take a closer look at you since you were on the Sock's suspect list. I'm not letting you off the hook, but I'm not sure you're bad either. Thank the wombat.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Also, as a public service announcement, I am completely colorblind. I'll try to read between the lines, but feel free to just flat-out tell me if you're being sarcastic.

[Lizzy]

Also, as a public service announcement, I am completely colorblind. I'll try to read between the lines, but feel free to just flat-out tell me if you're being sarcastic.

No biggy, I usually use :P anyway. Don't modkill me k.

[Russtifinko]

Also, as a public service announcement, I am completely colorblind. I'll try to read between the lines, but feel free to just flat-out tell me if you're being sarcastic.

No biggy, I usually use :P anyway. Don't modkill me k.

is an acceptable alternative. That smiley is one of my favorites for that reason.

[Lizzy]

Also, as a public service announcement, I am completely colorblind. I'll try to read between the lines, but feel free to just flat-out tell me if you're being sarcastic.

No biggy, I usually use :P anyway. Don't modkill me k.

is an acceptable alternative. That smiley is one of my favorites for that reason.

[S~V~S]

Sarcastic: Sarcastic posts that aren't orange will result in me rubbing a porcupine on the offending party's face. They would make S~V~S mad though, and that would be a GREAT idea.

You have no idea how sad I am this is in orange.

If DP gives his permission to be used as a face rubbing implement of torture, I would be OK with it. Otherwise there may or may not be an angry smashfest

[Marmot]

I am less interested in voting for MetalMarsh today for reasons I can't quite articulate. Something about his responses has made me less inclined to give him my vote today.

I am quite curious now why you changed your mind. No one else seemed interested in backing your case; was it related to that?

[Marmot]

Sarcastic: Sarcastic posts that aren't orange will result in me rubbing a porcupine on the offending party's face. They would make S~V~S mad though, and that would be a GREAT idea.

You have no idea how sad I am this is in orange.

If DP gives his permission to be used as a face rubbing implement of torture, I would be OK with it. Otherwise there may or may not be an angry smashfest

Who's DP?

[thellama73]

I am less interested in voting for MetalMarsh today for reasons I can't quite articulate. Something about his responses has made me less inclined to give him my vote today.

I am quite curious now why you changed your mind. No one else seemed interested in backing your case; was it related to that?

Not at all. I just thought your defense sounded sincere. I might still be wrong.

[Kylemii]

ok, i've finally caught up... mostly. but now i have only 6 minutes before i need to leave for school and i still need to shower. D: I'll try to read everything more thoroughly when i get home later, but that will be after the poll ends. :\

i mostly took note of Metalmarsh, like others have said, his posts have held little content so far, even after it's been pointed out there's been little change in his behavior. This seems somewhat consistent with his behavior in xmen... though oddly enough in the xmen game he seemed to have a little more on-topic content by now,

i'll have to vote from school, running late now

[kneel4justice]

Okay, since I'm going now on my vacation, I have to vote. I would really like to lynch Reywas, but no one seems to want to follow, so I'm left with either K4J or Mongoose who might get others' vote . I feel the stronger case if for K4J, and as much as I want him here playing, I can't let that go. Kitty, if you're a civ, I'm really sorry, but I have to make a decision now.

See you all on Saturday

SMH. It was cute how I was going to get the benefit of the doubt for this day. You of all people, even though I thought you might be scum, I hoped would at least be able to vouch for my defense or parts of it.
I hope no one follows you. I swear, ughhhh.

[Epignosis]

I agree with llama that a spread vote makes it easier for the baddies to manipulate the lynch in their favor, but I also agree with MP/TH as well. If we go llama's way and pile votes on someone like Dom, chances are he will turn out civ and then we are left with not much info to go on. Day 1 is usually all about guessing and disappointment unfortunately.

Lots of names have been thrown around but I have no gut pings as of yet, my gut pings are usually right. I'd like to be able to wait and see if I get any, but there is not much time and I need to go ahead and vote b/c I have RL stuff to do.

Randomizing DFaraday. That's right....I don't want to be accountable for my vote

Great to have you back SnowDog!

This has to be one of the most ambivalent posts I've ever seen.

Regarding the enlarged, what is it about Dom that makes him more likely to be civilian than anyone else? "Someone like Dom..."

Anyway, let me outline this post:

1a. Spreading the vote makes it easier for Mafia to manipulate the lynch but
2a. A bandwagon will most likely lynch a civilian
A. Therefore Day 1 is about guessing and being disappointed.

1b. I have no instinct, which is unfortunate because
2b. My instincts are usually good, so
B. I will vote randomly.

The defeatist attitude of item "A" stands in stark contrast with the next post, highlighted below. Item "A" also is not what one would expect if Item "2b" were true.

Seriously?!? That is an amazing result. I can't believe that in two games in a row we got a baddie Day 1. I think I will be less likely to randomize Day 1 now. Great result!

I am choosing "my journal". I would never forget food, drink, or a rope. I am one of those mom's that has everything she or her kids will need right in her purse/diaper bag .

Pokemon (the other game referenced), Day 1:

I voted for Kyle since he voted for me. I know his vote was random and there are no hard feelings there. And, I wouldn't have voted for him if it meant he would receive 2 votes and be tied for first. I wanted to vote for someone who had no votes so far and he seemed like the best choice. All in good fun! But I hope more things come to the surface thoughout the night and tomorrow so we can have a better idea of who could be bad.

The enlarged text above implies that you voted randomly on Day 1 in both Pokemon and here. But you didn't vote randomly on Day 1 in Pokemon- only here.

[kneel4justice]

The points brought up about K4J are pretty solid, corroborated with the fact that MP's fate was pretty much sealed when he decided to vote for him.

The points brought against me are not solid.
If they were solid, then people should be saying that my last minute vote for MP was throwing a baddie under the bus, if it was solid that was all they have to say. I think when people go to the extent of saying my suspicion of Epi is a lie, it doesn't make sense, it is insincere it shows how desperate they are to PUSH their point.
The change in Epi is EVIDENT, so how is it so shocking that my opinion changed on him? Yet people use that to push the idea that I just changed my mind to go against MP.


Also, there was still an attempt at trying to lynch someone else from MP. I could have tried to participate in that rather than lynch him.

And then there's this when he only had ONE vote and there were still 20 something people left to vote and he wasn't really under scrutiny:

I was joking.

So which is it? Is it strange people agreed with you on INH or is it okay they did and ended up voting for him? Your game and explanations at the moment remind me quite a bit of Exodus, to be honest.

I think you're talking about how I said it was weird people agreed with me but I liked Daisy's vote?
There is a difference in the way someone brings about their suspicion. It was strange when people tagged along without much of their own opinion. For example, whoever said something like 'What you said' (Reyas, I think?) would be more suspicious than Daisy who came in with a well explained explanation.

[kneel4justice]

I think people are dead set on finding a scum-buddy in MP's voters. I really don't know how to defend that.
I voted for MP because I thought he was most likely to be scum. It is just that simple.

People have a problem with my late vote.
I came in late. I was busy. Even if I was a townie (which I am) I would not have been able to vote earlier.

I don't know what else to say.
I have to go now, hopefully I'll be back before deadline.

[fingersplints]

I'm unlikely to get caught up by the vote. Anyone want to help me out with a summary of what's been going on? (I'm still going to read it all)

[juliets]

I think people are dead set on finding a scum-buddy in MP's voters. I really don't know how to defend that.
I voted for MP because I thought he was most likely to be scum. It is just that simple.

People have a problem with my late vote.
I came in late. I was busy. Even if I was a townie (which I am) I would not have been able to vote earlier.

I don't know what else to say.
I have to go now, hopefully I'll be back before deadline.

I don't know whether to take this as an oddly worded point or a slip. It seems to obvious for a slip but I don't know, it makes me uneasy.

llama I re-read Mongoose and the issue I'm having with her being defensive is it seems to be with you. I know you are great friends in real life and I wonder if it's just that she's more comfortable taking on that tone with you. I haven't ruled her out for a vote, this is just something that struck me as I read through.

Splints Welcome! I would love to help you out but I am the worst at summaries. I can tell you that MP was lynched the first day and was bad. The people who voted for him have come under suspicion by some because it is felt one of his own teammates would have voted for him (one of those people is k4j and is why he started to get suspicion). Also the voters for MP were all right in a row except 1. There are also some who feel, llama I know is one but I can't think of the others, that the names MP brought up as suspects might be bad because he is one who distances hard and throws his teammates under the bus. There has been some debate on whether that is true. One of those people is Dom and I can't remember who the other is (this is why I'm not good at summaries) - it may be Metalmarsh. Daisy came under some suspicion because MP voted for her out of the blue and she seemed to take it very calmly, not surprised or upset. She explained why that was in a post and i think most people have moved away from her.

Even this small summary of some things that have happened is incomplete. It seems I remember llama does good summaries but if not, maybe someone else can fill in the gaping holes in mine and/or correct any names I got wrong or theories I misrepresented. It's the best I can do.

[thellama73]

I do good summarries, but unfortunately I am swamped right now and can't do one. Sorry folks!

[kneel4justice]

I think people are dead set on finding a scum-buddy in MP's voters. I really don't know how to defend that.
I voted for MP because I thought he was most likely to be scum. It is just that simple.

People have a problem with my late vote.
I came in late. I was busy. Even if I was a townie (which I am) I would not have been able to vote earlier.

I don't know what else to say.
I have to go now, hopefully I'll be back before deadline.

I don't know whether to take this as an oddly worded point or a slip. It seems to obvious for a slip but I don't know, it makes me uneasy.

llama I re-read Mongoose and the issue I'm having with her being defensive is it seems to be with you. I know you are great friends in real life and I wonder if it's just that she's more comfortable taking on that tone with you. I haven't ruled her out for a vote, this is just something that struck me as I read through.

Splints Welcome! I would love to help you out but I am the worst at summaries. I can tell you that MP was lynched the first day and was bad. The people who voted for him have come under suspicion by some because it is felt one of his own teammates would have voted for him (one of those people is k4j and is why he started to get suspicion). Also the voters for MP were all right in a row except 1. There are also some who feel, llama I know is one but I can't think of the others, that the names MP brought up as suspects might be bad because he is one who distances hard and throws his teammates under the bus. There has been some debate on whether that is true. One of those people is Dom and I can't remember who the other is (this is why I'm not good at summaries) - it may be Metalmarsh. Daisy came under some suspicion because MP voted for her out of the blue and she seemed to take it very calmly, not surprised or upset. She explained why that was in a post and i think most people have moved away from her.

Even this small summary of some things that have happened is incomplete. It seems I remember llama does good summaries but if not, maybe someone else can fill in the gaping holes in mine and/or correct any names I got wrong or theories I misrepresented. It's the best I can do.

It isn't a slip. I was trying to show people their line of thinking. They say I am scum and had a late vote and I am saying no, I would have been late regardless, even as a townie. And that is what happened. It is counteracting, not a slip.

[Elohcin]

Mongoose, I'm going to be honest- that last post made me go from Whoo to wehrn wehrn wehrn with you.

I've been increasingly wondering about Mongoose as well. I am going to catch up more and reread her while I eat lunch, then I have a massive amount of dishes to do

And, I have always wondered how you would convey "wehrn wehrn wehrn" in word form. I think that works

[Vompatti]

Mongoose is innocent and I'm going to randomize between whoever votes for her first k