Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Vompatti]

Perhaps just a bit.

You may embed only 7 quotes within each other.

do you have reasons for maybe thinking i'm a bit of a bad guy? or is it just a Thing?

I suspect everyone who rode the Eloh bandwagon and/or posts a lot.

[Sloonei]

Perhaps just a bit.

You may embed only 7 quotes within each other.

do you have reasons for maybe thinking i'm a bit of a bad guy? or is it just a Thing?

I suspect everyone who rode the Eloh bandwagon and/or posts a lot.

why?

[Sloonei]

Dragon, fingersplints, Turnip Head, vomp, and Roxy all voted for someone other than Eloh. I am making nothing of this yet, just pointing out that it's a reality and something which may be worth pursuing later.
The people who voted for Eloh are in no way abovd suspicion for doing so, of course.

I was working with the theory here that scum players might have seen the bandwagon on Eloh and assumed she was a civilian, and would then back off or avoid the wagon to avoid being associated with the lynch of a townie. So I'm looking for reasons, indirect or direct, why these players would have avoided voting for Elohcin.

I recall Turnip Head being the most vocal support of Elohcin besides Elohcin herself for parts of yesterday.

@MP, I think Elo has reacted to the suspicion of her just as emotionally as you have. She sees it her way, and her way is the right way, probably because she's civ. I actually think she'd be more inclined to explain her vote if she were bad, because she would feel like she needs a good explanation.

Fact is, regardless of Elo's own defense, her reads progression of both you AND Golden seems organic to me. She seemed to carefully considerate in her read of you in particular, MP. I don't know if you read it that way, but that's how I read it, and I don't know that a baddie-Elo would go to such lengths and get involved in the argument with you. She cites my case on Golden as a reason to vote for him, and we can debate the merits of her voting based on that, but she's far from the only person in this game to make a change in their read, and that's something civvies tend to do more often than baddies anyways.

So you could say I'm reading her the exact opposite way that you are.

I don't think anyone else shared, or at least voiced, these reads of Elohcin. It looks a bit odd to me that such an overwhelming favorite for the lynch was specifically called good by Turnip Head here.

[Vompatti]

Perhaps just a bit.

You may embed only 7 quotes within each other.

do you have reasons for maybe thinking i'm a bit of a bad guy? or is it just a Thing?

I suspect everyone who rode the Eloh bandwagon and/or posts a lot.

why?

Because a) there's no reason to believe she's bad and b) flooding the thread only benefits those who intend to obscure the facts.

[Sloonei]

Perhaps just a bit.

You may embed only 7 quotes within each other.

do you have reasons for maybe thinking i'm a bit of a bad guy? or is it just a Thing?

I suspect everyone who rode the Eloh bandwagon and/or posts a lot.

why?

Because a) there's no reason to believe she's bad and b) flooding the thread only benefits those who intend to obscure the facts.

Would you say that her flip as a bad person lends verification to the beliefs some of us held that she was bad?
Do you believe the game can be better solved using facts alone?

[Vompatti]

Perhaps just a bit.

You may embed only 7 quotes within each other.

do you have reasons for maybe thinking i'm a bit of a bad guy? or is it just a Thing?

I suspect everyone who rode the Eloh bandwagon and/or posts a lot.

why?

Because a) there's no reason to believe she's bad and b) flooding the thread only benefits those who intend to obscure the facts.

Would you say that her flip as a bad person lends verification to the beliefs some of us held that she was bad?
Do you believe the game can be better solved using facts alone?

1. Maybe.
2. Yes.

[Sloonei]

2. Why? That is very interesting.

[Vompatti]

^ Because anything other than facts can be distorted by the baddies and because even when there are no facts to go on there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

[Sloonei]

Do you then think there is no value in "scum hunting"/trying to find out who's bad?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

[Vompatti]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

[Sloonei]

the only probability statistic i rely on in any meaningful way is that there are always more town than scum, thus it is almost always more likely that the person you are talking to is town rather than scum.

[fingersplints]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

There are items and abilities with vote manipulations though so it would be impossible to know if it is actually tied.

[Vompatti]

Do you then think there is no value in "scum hunting"/trying to find out who's bad?

I think we can discuss how and when everyone voted, for example, and what that might imply, but we should do that in concise sentences.

[Sloonei]

Do you then think there is no value in "scum hunting"/trying to find out who's bad?

I think we can discuss how and when everyone voted, for example, and what that might imply, but we should do that in concise sentences.

Do you have anything to say about how and when anyone voted?

[Vompatti]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

There are items and abilities with vote manipulations though so it would be impossible to know if it is actually tied.

True, but the civvies have a better chance at getting the items because there are more of them, and if the game is balanced the abilities more or less cancel each other out.

[Vompatti]

Do you then think there is no value in "scum hunting"/trying to find out who's bad?

I think we can discuss how and when everyone voted, for example, and what that might imply, but we should do that in concise sentences.

Do you have anything to say about how and when anyone voted?

I'd have to browse through the thread to find out and it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

[fingersplints]

Who do you want to vote tomorrow Vomps?

[Sloonei]

Do you then think there is no value in "scum hunting"/trying to find out who's bad?

I think we can discuss how and when everyone voted, for example, and what that might imply, but we should do that in concise sentences.

Do you have anything to say about how and when anyone voted?

I'd have to browse through the thread to find out and it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

it's easy enough iso and search specifically for votes and things

[Vompatti]

Who do you want to vote tomorrow Vomps?

If I'd have to pick I'd go for any one of the Eloh voters.

[Turnip Head]

Dragon, fingersplints, Turnip Head, vomp, and Roxy all voted for someone other than Eloh. I am making nothing of this yet, just pointing out that it's a reality and something which may be worth pursuing later.
The people who voted for Eloh are in no way abovd suspicion for doing so, of course.

I was working with the theory here that scum players might have seen the bandwagon on Eloh and assumed she was a civilian, and would then back off or avoid the wagon to avoid being associated with the lynch of a townie. So I'm looking for reasons, indirect or direct, why these players would have avoided voting for Elohcin.

I recall Turnip Head being the most vocal support of Elohcin besides Elohcin herself for parts of yesterday.

@MP, I think Elo has reacted to the suspicion of her just as emotionally as you have. She sees it her way, and her way is the right way, probably because she's civ. I actually think she'd be more inclined to explain her vote if she were bad, because she would feel like she needs a good explanation.

Fact is, regardless of Elo's own defense, her reads progression of both you AND Golden seems organic to me. She seemed to carefully considerate in her read of you in particular, MP. I don't know if you read it that way, but that's how I read it, and I don't know that a baddie-Elo would go to such lengths and get involved in the argument with you. She cites my case on Golden as a reason to vote for him, and we can debate the merits of her voting based on that, but she's far from the only person in this game to make a change in their read, and that's something civvies tend to do more often than baddies anyways.

So you could say I'm reading her the exact opposite way that you are.

I don't think anyone else shared, or at least voiced, these reads of Elohcin. It looks a bit odd to me that such an overwhelming favorite for the lynch was specifically called good by Turnip Head here.

Do you not think this was my genuine opinion? You think I put it out there for the townie cred?

[Sloonei]

That's a theory, yes.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It seems I got a shitload of stuff to reply to. Imma do it in a little while.

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

I once made a code to find out what happens if everyone randomizes in a mafia game (yes I'm that nerdy). I ran some common mafia setups and found out that the game is always skewed in mafia's favor. So yes, Town has to use their brains to find out scum. Whether that should be done with facts or just posts is another story, though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

if, on Day 1 for example, everyone truly randomized and allowed for a lynch that was indeed random, then the probability of an anti-town flip would have been about 26.3%.

If one town player dies this night phase and we randomize on on Day 3, then we'll have either a 28.6% (with 4 mafia alive) or 21.4% (with 3 mafia alive) probability of a town-friendly flip.

Do you think those probabilities worsen or improve with more thread content?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

if anyone has any facts to offer right now that can be revealed within the boundaries of the rules and without exposing a player needlessly, let's have 'em. i like facts too, but they're a rare commodity.

[Vompatti]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

if, on Day 1 for example, everyone truly randomized and allowed for a lynch that was indeed random, then the probability of an anti-town flip would have been about 26.3%.

If one town player dies this night phase and we randomize on on Day 3, then we'll have either a 28.6% (with 4 mafia alive) or 21.4% (with 3 mafia alive) probability of a town-friendly flip.

Do you think those probabilities worsen or improve with more thread content?

It depends on the content.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It depends on the content.

would you say the sort of content you've provided in your last few posts is representative of the sort of content which would increase the probability?

[Vompatti]

It depends on the content.

would you say the sort of content you've provided in your last few posts is representative of the sort of content which would increase the probability?

I would say my last few posts have merely paved the way for such content.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It depends on the content.

would you say the sort of content you've provided in your last few posts is representative of the sort of content which would increase the probability?

I would say my last few posts have merely paved the way for such content.

how much would it irk you if i analyzed all of your posts in multiple paragraphs?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

birdwithteet: mafia

This post made my day.

Damn guys it was just a typo.

Dragon's reads in that list suggest a scum team of me, birdwithteeth, Roxy, and acrosstheaether. Hos and why did you arrive at these conclusions, Dragon? I'm most interested in my own presence on this list, obviously. But the other names are also intriguing. I've listed them as two slight town reads and one slight scum read. Are these reads an influence at all in your reads?

i think it's odd that ddl called the entire mafia team now. granted i wouldve done that 3 times by now if we were on rym but cant rely on previous games for most players here and neither can he. also just going in and doing 3 massive paragraphs of awful wifom isnt ok just because you admit its wifom

I don't like to do full team analysis, specially in a situation where no mafia has been confirmed yet. It's just too much work for a low chance of getting to any conclusion. My reads should be read individually.

Though if I did out the entire mafia team on day 2, that would be hilarious lol

As foe the reads, I had talked about most of them before. I argued with Roxy on day 2 about how I didn't like her post day defense of Golden. So I called her slight mafia. Aether has been on my scumdar since her first few posts in the game. And Birdwithteetteeth's behavior in the end of the day made me very suspicious of him, as showed in the post where I ask him and you about your votes.

I'll elaborate on you in the next post.

i'd like to echo a point made by sanmateo and Sloonei. DDL has put a lot of work into describing why he wouldn't play the way he has played as mafia. and in so doing, he has acknowledged the WIFOM nature of that mindset. this would make him a very self-aware mafioso.

but wait, what if he is very self-aware of the notion of being a self-aware mafioso? let's visit his comment directed at me:

If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.

this could be called an unintentional self-diagnosis.

Pick your glass of wine, bro.

I don't want to be replaced anymore. Now that the SK is out of the way, no need to speculate about alignments of NKs

Why am I not surprised?

Unless the mafia kills nightly now.

This post:

I'm thinking, is there anyone in particular who was most adamantly pushing for Elo's lynch? Perhaps that person is Adam Smith.

Why are you trying to draw attention to who might have a specific civvie role?

So we no longer need to suspect that person?

If "that person" is in danger of getting lynched, sure. But right now you are doing nothing but tip mafia of a power role they may want to kill, assuming they hadn't noticed that before you posted. I was hoping they didn't, but you probably burned that bridge.

I tend to wait as late as I possibly can to vote. When RL doesn't get in the way, sometimes it is 30 minutes or less before the poll ends. I like to wait as late as possible because I want as much information as I can get before I vote. Sometimes things happen towards the end of a lynch period that make me change my mind.

And it wasn't RL that made me miss the vote. It was me trying to catch up in the thread and losing track of time. I thought I had more time than I did, looked down, and noticed I had almost no time left to vote. So I panicked and went to try and vote, and it had already gone past the deadline.

I stick by what I said about your aether vote though. Why voice your suspicion of Elo as much as you did, and then suddenly switch gears?

I can't deny your explanation, but it strikes me as a huge coincidence. It seems you took a very unnecessary risk.

If someone votes for a player that has no chance of getting lynched in, say, one or two lynches in a game, that's different IMO from someone who constantly does it throughout the game. Once or twice (or more if it's the same person over and over) I'm okay with because I generally interpret it as a civ thing to be going after the player you are most suspicious of. If one person gives it enough attention over time, it can cause other people to go and examine exactly what the original poster is seeing with a certain player.

Now if you're voting for people who have no chance of being lynched, and constantly throw your vote around on different players, then I view that as more absolving yourself of a lynch. Which looks more like a baddie act.

So I don't think "throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything" is an exercise in futility. It can pay off down the road sometimes.

Yes it's different if it's a one time thing, but it doesn't mean it isn't suspicious. And what made it even more suspicious is that you made a point to say I was doing a cop out.

How exactly is my vote so different of yours? I didn't vote aether because I thought I could get her lynched. I did it because at that point, the Elo lynch (which, let me say again, I fully supported), was winning by a landslide, and a bunch of people who hadn't voted yet said they were gonna vote for her. I've seen situations like those before, and it's incredibly unlikely for the person who is being lynched to survive. So I decided to do something more useful with my vote and pursue a tanget. Attack a player who I had been suspecting for a while and attempt to produce reactions. I didn't say the "reactions" thing at the time because I didn't want to be so obvious about it, though. Besides, I could also use it to make a point about aether and force people to analyse her. The same thing you just described, btw.

And you? You didn't vote. And assume you did, it would be either a late ELO vote that would acomplish absolutely nothing, or a Bass/whatever vote that wouldn't get anyone lynched but might, like you said, make a point. Why is it so different from my vote? Heck, I'd say my vote was theoretically more effective since at least it gave more time for aether to come and defend herself (she didn't though).

It isn't just your lack of vote that makes me suspect you. It's your insistance on calling me mafia for something I did despite you pretty much having done the same thing.

Stuff about Sloonei in the next post.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

How so I write striked through text in this forum?

Also, one point by sanmateo I forgot to reply:

i think it's odd that ddl called the entire mafia team now. granted i wouldve done that 3 times by now if we were on rym but cant rely on previous games for most players here and neither can he. also just going in and doing 3 massive paragraphs of awful wifom isnt ok just because you admit its wifom

Ok that may have rubbed people the wrong way so let me explain.

The point of that post was to point out the hipocrisy in some people's points against me and use that to make my own point against the people who only voted at the end of the phase (Sloonei, JJJ, etc) or didn't vote at all (bwt).

It wasn't to defend myself.

But I noticed the post would also look as an attempt to defend myself. And a terrible, WIFOM-like one. So in an attempt to defuse that, I made the paragraph about WIFOM.

So I honestly ask that you don't perceive that as an attempt of mine to defend myself from a lynch. Only as a post about my suspicions on other players. The defenses can be found in other posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It wasn't to defend myself.

But I noticed the post would also look as an attempt to defend myself. And a terrible, WIFOM-like one. So in an attempt to defuse that, I made the paragraph about WIFOM.

So I honestly ask that you don't perceive that as an attempt of mine to defend myself from a lynch. Only as a post about my suspicions on other players. The defenses can be found in other posts.

anticipatory explanations like the one you gave regarding WIFOM are not uncommon mafia flubs. when one is highly conscious of his or her own content and how it will reflect on him/her (as is the case with any anti-town player more than a town player by default), that is often a product.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[quote="Dragon D. Luffy"Pick your glass of wine, bro.[/quote]

nobody has talked more about WIFOM in this game than you have, and that has been a mostly unprovoked talking point. so its relevance to you is resultant of your own insistence on that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

EBWOP

Pick your glass of wine, bro.

nobody has talked more about WIFOM in this game than you have, and that has been a mostly unprovoked talking point. so its relevance to you is resultant of your own insistence on that.[/quote]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

and of course that one is screwed up too. screw it maaaaan

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And then he makes this post, making strategical suggestions for certain roles in the game. Something about this post has seemed odd since the time he made it, but I never really stopped to think about it.
No one had really discussed roles strategically like this, and i'm not sure if that's just a flavor of the rules on and culture in this community or what, but not many people seemed to buy into what Dragon was saying here, myself included, and the issue fairly quickly went away. But what was Dragon trying to provoke with this post? His stance is a little confusing in this post, and even more so when we consider what his motives might have been. He does back himself up in a couple posts, to his credit.

Yes, I like to do strategy talk. And yes, it probably comes from my culture, where role reveals are not allowed but revealing info obtained by roles is, and where roles generally have 2-3 abilities so discussing them is pretty important.

And what I was trying to provoke with that point? Getting town to lynch a serial killer. I'm not sure whether my post made a difference or not, but you could say it happened as intended.

One thing I notice about Dragon's post history is that it feels like a very significant portion of his content came in and around that one early flourish. That's not to say there's nothing else here, but that it's dropped off a bit since that aggressive start he showed earlier. I find that somewhat suspicious, as it feeds into my doubts that he could have been scum simply trying to get off to a fast start in this game, and now he's dropped back a bit.

Oh hey look, Jay already called him out for the exact same thing I just mentioned. There's an example of why he's a town read, I guess. BUT back to Dragon, his response to this feels a bit soft, like he acknowledges and gives in to what Jay is saying without really defending himself. I remember myself doing this exact same thing in the game on RYM a couple weeks ago when I was scum. When people pointed out oddities in my behavior, I agreed to the cases and just tried to shrug them off. I'm getting a lot of those vibes from this post, I don't like it.

I explained before why I lowered my activity. I tried a strategy in day 1, and it failed epically. In fact, it isn't the first time I came to a new forum and tried to play like I should be the MVP, only to get my ass handed to scum on a plate.

So I changed it a little. I'm trying to point out relevant stuff only when I see them. And I'm trying to avoid doing meta reading on anyone, since I don't know their metas. I'm still one of the most active players in the game, though.

Look, I'm a human. Sometimes I make mistakes and I'm forced to change my views on how I play the game. Knowing when to accept defeat and change the strategy is better than sticking to a losing strategy forever.

I can dig the questioning, but I'm not sure I buy into them as a sincere effort to scum hunt. My vote was never in jeopardy of going to anyone other than Bass or Elohcin according to everything I stated publicly. Did I ever give you any indication that I would want to vote for another player? I think I was pretty vocal about both Elohcin and Bass, and I also think I'v demonstrated that I'm going to hold on to my votes as carefully as I'm able to in this game. I waited as long as I did because I don't want to cast a premature vote early in the Day and end up regretting it later. By the time I finally voted, the tally was pretty much wrapped up, yes, but it was a result that I had supported all day long.

Did you ever show any indication that you'd vote for anyone else?

No, and that's part of the problem imo.

You picked your targets before the phase started. You then spent the phase insisting that you'd eventually vote for one of them, never trying to progress from that. You didn't go after anyone, except for a bunch of ISOs and rainbow lists (which I doubt anyone other than MP and JJJ read) where you say A LOT of stuff only to drop a neutral reads on most people. Then the phase end comes and you drop a vote for the winning bandwagon when there's no chance of your vote doing anything.

The thing is, I'm having the feeling that you are playing a very safe game. Your reads are predictable, and ressonate with what the masses are saying. Your walls of texts don't add much to the game. You are an unremarkable player, and I honestly can't remember the last time you did anything that moved the game in some direction. Many of the players have done so, usually by insisting on lynches they feel strongly for, or trying to come up with new points. You give me the feeling of being nothing more than the third member of the Rainbow List Club, and that you are just doing that to gain the favor of other heavy posters (which seems to be working since all three of you are reading town on each other).

I've been leaning neutral on you for the whole game (with "neutral" being the word that best describes your performance in it). Now after the phase end, I'm leaning slighly mafia.

[Vompatti]

It depends on the content.

would you say the sort of content you've provided in your last few posts is representative of the sort of content which would increase the probability?

I would say my last few posts have merely paved the way for such content.

how much would it irk you if i analyzed all of your posts in multiple paragraphs?

Not at all, but don't expect me to read them.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

EBWOP

Pick your glass of wine, bro.

nobody has talked more about WIFOM in this game than you have, and that has been a mostly unprovoked talking point. so its relevance to you is resultant of your own insistence on that.

[/quote]

Whenever I say something about WIFOM, it isn't to prove something, it is to point out the futility in trying to see whether something is town or mafia-like.

Yes, I'm very self aware (and I'm self aware about that too!). Does that make me town, or mafia? It could be either. I'm just saying there isn't much point in trying to read WIFOM in a post about WIFOM. That's an exercise in guessing.

anticipatory explanations like the one you gave regarding WIFOM are not uncommon mafia flubs. when one is highly conscious of his or her own content and how it will reflect on him/her (as is the case with any anti-town player more than a town player by default), that is often a product.

Fair enough. But I saw the explanation as necessary for the point I wanted to make, and went with it. Believe me if you want to.

[Russtifinko]

Night 2: Hang On, Sloonei

Sloonei worked the night away, feverishly scribbling on chalkboards in a basement auditorium. Finally, at exactly 1:59am, he shouted, "Eureka!" at the top of his lungs. He had solved it! The equation that would make Europe the world's greatest economic superpower for decades, if not centuries, to come.

However, as the clock struck 2, his cry was heard by someone with dark designs. That person crept toward Sloonei, pausing by the auditorium door to plunge the room into blackness.

Sloonei called out again: "Guys?! Hey, wait, I solved it! I've got it all figured out! Turn the lights back on, will ya? Guys? Guys? .....Guys?

Most geniuses imagine their last words will be something profound that will echo through future generations. For Sloonei, that dream was not to be. Quick as a snake, Sloonei's assailant wrapped a thin wire around the poor genius's neck. A final confused "....guys?" Was all Sloonei could rasp out before a final gurgle and a thud as he slumped to the floor.

The assailant quickly erased what had been on the board, and then crept off into the night.

The other residents of the Hague worked through the Night as well, producing guns and butter off of which to live and die in the coming days. They created a household economic BOOM!

Sloonei has been killed!
You have 48 hours to make someone pay.

We are in a BOOM cycle.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

RIP Sloonei. great syndicate debut

[JaggedJimmyJay]

well i just placed my vote for DDL

[Sloonei]

nice font

[JaggedJimmyJay]

FWIW:

I am going to dip my toes in the rainbow game for the very first time now. I hope you're all as excited as I am for this.

JaggedJimmyJay - I find myself agreed with much of what Jay is saying so far, which is usually a good sign. I could do a more thorough ISO later on if I feel it's necessary. Everything he says feels genuine so far.
sanmateo - Giving him the benefit of the doubt in some ways. I don't think I've ever played with sanmateo as scum, and it's been months since we played a game together at all, so I don't really have as much familiarity with his style as one would expect coming from the same community, but I like the effort level he's putting in this game and would like to see what comes of some of the points he's made. His line of thought about Turnip Head is one I'd particularly like to see pursued more.
MovingPictures07 - Similar to Jay, I find myself being able to agree with a lot of what he says. I'm not nearly as familiar with MP07 as a player as I am with Jay, so it's not as easy to discern whether or not I find him to be genuine, but to feel in agreement with another player so much is a good thing.
birdwithteeth11 - Of all the true ISOs I just did, birdwithteeth's was the one that felt the most strongly town-oriented.
Dragon D. Luffy - I gave him a slight town read on Day 1 and have kind of let him slip past since then. I admit I need to take a more thorough look at his more recent contributions to the thread, but his presence here on Day 1 did not feel false in any way.
Roxy - Not many posts, but what's there is pretty thorough and consistent. Need to hear more, but I did not find anything scummy in Roxy's posts.
Black Rock - very slight town read based on the stuff about MovingPictures on Day 1. I thought her "backtracking" from the alleged defense of MP looked more like a townie not willing to suggest a stronger read on a player than was truly intended.
Turnip Head - Gonna have to do a proper ISO later. But would also, in the meantime, like to hear a lot more from and about Turnip Head. I feel like there's a lot I simply do not know and can't figure out about Turnip so far. I'll try to correct that.
Vompatti - Nothin'
G-man - Nothin' again, but with the note that he's at least achieved his null read by way of a much more noticeable route.
TinyBubbles - A player so relatively new to the game is tough to read. I do not feel anything scummy from her posts, but their small quantity can't not be unnerving.
fingersplints - Very slightly below the neutral zone because I need to hear more from splints before I can dismiss any lingering suspicion. Or this color could get more red, who knows?
acrosstheaether - I do not doubt that she might be struggling to follow along this game more than usual, but having seen what she is capable of as a townie, there's nothing she can do to shake my suspicion unless she starts posting more.
Elohcin - I've not really posted a case of mine own on her yet, and I should, but for now I'll continue to acknowledge that she's a candidate to earn my vote right now, mostly for reasons stated by others already.
Bass_the_Clever - I've highlighted my case against him more clearly than I have against anyone else this game. Depending on how things play out for the rest of the day, either he or Elohcin is in line to get my vote. I am looking, among other things, for a response to either one of my casing posts about Bass.

There's not a lot of red on this chart, and I expect some of those neutral names to start sliding downward (or upward) as things progress onward. Vompatti especially needs to give us something to work with, imo. I am going to sleep now, much later than I intended thanks to mafia. I party hard on Saturday nights.

My apologies for drowning the thread in Paprika tonight.

and i think his feelings about DDL had drifted into the region below the gray by the time of his death.

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace Sloonei Sorry to lose you, hope you stick around for other games here.

well i just placed my vote for DDL

Not advised tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

oh yeah that reminds me, Sloonei may have been trending toward a mafia lean on TH too at the end there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

well i just placed my vote for DDL

Not advised tbh

too late. but why not?

[Sloonei]

are dead caves a thing here?

[Turnip Head]

I'll type out my thoughts when I get home tonight. I'd like to hear where DDL thinks we should be looking today. Let's consider all angles.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i think we can pretty safety state now that MM and Sloonei were both town. if that is somehow off-base, someone say so. with that in mind, here again are the players primarily suspected at various points in his post history:

i reviewed all of MM's posts to see what insights i could dig up. and i came up with very little. he cast some degree of suspicion upon all of these people:

DDL
Golden (town)
Bass
JJJ
MP
Elohcin (rogue)

now combining this with Sloonei's rainbow above and the associated commentary, the overlap occurs with these players:

Bass
DDL

i'm not saying that's crucial information, but it's something to be digested in the continuing conversation.

[sanmateo]

there's still a decent chance to hit a baddie simply by randomizing.

This isn't true, Mr. Facts

It is if everyone randomizes. Obviously if someone gets more than one vote it's possible that whoever voted for them didn't actually randomize. Which is why we should always aim at a tie where nobody gets more than one vote and lynch anyone who meddles with this plan.

lol ok