Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Tangrowth]

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I think I agree, if I had to choose. DDL seems, like he did in Economics, willing to say whatever is on his mind, as if he has nothing to lose. In Guess Who?, he did seem more tense.

So I'll agree with your assessment here:

OK, at this point I will say what I think.

I think Elo's read on DDL was genuine, and it makes me feel good about her.

DDL expressed in our chat room that he found being mafia difficult, particularly on this site, and we all essentially agreed that he was getting caught and looked bad because you could sense he wasn't as comfortable in the thread. Elo is aware of this because she was in that chat room.

From my perspective, her reading DDL as good because he seems comfortable is legit, based on how things went down in Guess Who.

That doesn't mean DDL is good, of course, but I do think Elo's read was legitimate and it made me feel good about her.

Now that you mention it, it does influence my view of Elo. GTH town read, but it'd be very slight. I hope she can elaborate more on her thoughts soon though.

I'm glad you brought this up for discussion, since her calling DDL "comfortable" slipped my radar among the other conversation, and now I've managed to GTH town read another player.

That said, I find it eerie how we're on exactly the same page. Surely we will disagree about something.

[Tangrowth]

Some other quick thoughts I have:
I have expressed vague support of G-man, but I don't necessarily have him as a town read. That said, I don't support any of the cases I have seen made against him thus far. That does not mean he should not be looked at further.

I do not wish to OMGUS thellama, but I find his case against me to be a bit weak and that is something that could become suspicious down the line, depending on how it progresses, but for now it's too early to make a judgment.

I am now 10 minutes late for work, woohoo

Hmm, really? Only "vague support"? I'd say it more than that. This slightly feels like a fine tuning, for some reason.

Do you suspect Sloonei, even slightly, for this? I presume you believe it is a misrepresentation?

[Golden]

Well, I read Sloonei's responses to you differently than you did. I'm not sure which of us is wrong. I thought he was saying it was you he found suspicious in BoB, but he hasn't been able to determine whether or not it is relevant because Epi 2.0 is still alive and we don't know his role.

At this point, I'd say I'm highly likely to vote for Ninja today. The only other real issue I have is with G-Man, and I think I've talked myself out of that. I need to revisit the LoRab stuff about lie detectors more closely before I pursue that.

[Golden]

Also, I have literally zero suspicion of sloonei. I do not yet see any reason to think he is bad and I have not really agreed with any of the cases on him. I think he is the person who looks most at risk of suffering my econ day one fate - someone that no baddie is going to be sad to see lynched because he can be a threat to their chances of success later on. I'm much more wary of those who have simply jumped on the 'sloonei looks bad' bandwagon than I am of sloonei.

[Tangrowth]

Regarding where I am at this moment:

I have very slight suspicions of G-Man and Ninja. That being said, I think a lynch of Ninja right now would be "easy", and I'm consequently hesitant to cast my vote that way, or in G-Man's direction. I'm going to examine the players I have in my No Read section now.

That said, Ninja does have the highest propensity to receive my vote as well, but man, these lynch trains always make me nervous, and they do minimize the information we can gleam in subsequent Days from looking back at this lynch, especially if hardly anyone casts off.

[Ricochet]

Rico, thanks for answering. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that, I figured maybe I was just being paranoid. I'm not sure what to make of it. Do you have any thoughts on Elo re: alignment and experience with her?

Can't say I do. With just four posts, it's mostly the mirroring of your suspicion on Sloonei (and rather poor quality of it) that stands out. I also thought she twisted a bit you saying you'd only support voting a no-shower by asking you if you've never voted for low posters (which is technically not the same thing), but then you gave her a full answer, so maybe it was just me. I'd also agree with Scotty that, for a player who encouraged people to post and play, her current post count is kinda ironic.

linki MP & Golden: well I suppose the comparisons of DDL between Economics, Guess and here and the fact that Eloh might have made a "meta" comment on someone she hosted are fair, but for some reason I never found he was tense on D1 of Guess Who. Then again, I failed to read him as mafia, so shame on me.

linki MP: I am slightly surprised, for sure. I don't think he's backing away from "not supporting the cases" against G-Man, for which I believe she argued against quite actively (and in lieu of G-Man whilst absent, on top of that), but my impression was that he did more than vaguely support him, yes.

linki

linki

linki

OH GOD WILL IT EVER SUBMIT

[Ricochet]

Also, I have literally zero suspicion of sloonei. I do not yet see any reason to think he is bad and I have not really agreed with any of the cases on him. I think he is the person who looks most at risk of suffering my econ day one fate - someone that no baddie is going to be sad to see lynched because he can be a threat to their chances of success later on. I'm much more wary of those who have simply jumped on the 'sloonei looks bad' bandwagon than I am of sloonei.

That includes Elo, though.

[Tangrowth]

Also, I have literally zero suspicion of sloonei. I do not yet see any reason to think he is bad and I have not really agreed with any of the cases on him. I think he is the person who looks most at risk of suffering my econ day one fate - someone that no baddie is going to be sad to see lynched because he can be a threat to their chances of success later on. I'm much more wary of those who have simply jumped on the 'sloonei looks bad' bandwagon than I am of sloonei.

I'm very glad you said this, because that's precisely the reason I backed off of my gut-based suspicion of Sloonei earlier. I started feeling like I was expecting too much of him, realizing that my thoughts on him were exactly "trying too hard to meet meta" and other vague feelings that are not logical or based on actual content. It's the same kind of vague poisonous suspicion that took you down in Economics.

Consequently, I will NOT be voting for Sloonei today.

[Tangrowth]

I really want to hear from Ninja again before even considering a vote in her direction, and I think anyone else that can wait to vote should do the same.

Rico, thanks for your answers; they are appreciated.

[Golden]

Also, I have literally zero suspicion of sloonei. I do not yet see any reason to think he is bad and I have not really agreed with any of the cases on him. I think he is the person who looks most at risk of suffering my econ day one fate - someone that no baddie is going to be sad to see lynched because he can be a threat to their chances of success later on. I'm much more wary of those who have simply jumped on the 'sloonei looks bad' bandwagon than I am of sloonei.

That includes Elo, though.

It does. And I recognise this. If Elo had not brought fresh thoughts to the table in the same post that she jumped on others suspicions, I'd be feeling differently about her right now.

[Golden]

I really want to hear from Ninja again before even considering a vote in her direction, and I think anyone else that can wait to vote should do the same.

Rico, thanks for your answers; they are appreciated.

I won't do the same. I would prefer to hear from Ninja again. Setting such an ultimatum, though, is a great way for a baddie to simply say nothing again and not get lynched.

[espers]

quoting a bunch of posts here and asking questions where applicable, this may be a little scattered.

Especially with some of you:
- Cookie, espers, and Scotty, whom I've never played with before
- LoRab, whom I haven't played with in WAY too long
- Russ and DH, whom I haven't played with in too long
- DDL, who has come from NF again to play with us
- Sloonei and espers, who have come all the way from RYM to join us

just a nitpick, but I have played with you before, I was glassrevenue in rym's 84. the reason I make note is that you seem different in this game, making very high effort posts and being more dominant in the discussion. I have a couple ideas for why that might be and I don't really find it suspicious, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on that. (for reference, here is the link to that game for anyone interested)

9 townies, 3 mafiosos. Chance of lynching a townie is three timer higher than a mafioso (75-25).

The indies are excluded because they can be either pro-town, anti-town, or neutral, we can't possible measure that. So I just assume they all average as neutral and that we are still more likely to lynch pro-town.

I think you can add Silk Spectre and The Comedian to the civvie side of the equation. Neither of their win conditions suggest any harm to the civvies. Regardless, we're always more likely to lynch civvie than a baddie whether we use randomization or our best effort to deduce the identity of a baddie. Using strict probability, the odds are always stacked against us.

Silk Spectre wants to stay alive long enough to find the roles she is looking for. If I were her, I'd help whatever faction seemed to be losing at the moment. If town starts winning too hard, I could see her helping mafia.

The Comedian would benefit from looking very civ, since he has to be night killed. So he is likely the most pro-civ one. But he still has a separate wincon, and might change sides if town starts winning too hard.

Nite Owl has a wincon that looks very pro-civ. He will be helping us at start. But if his dad is still alive and he has a chance to help hammer a civ lynch to end the game, he will. Likewise, if he kills the guy he has to kill, but his wincon means he has to survive till the end of the game, he will want the game to end faster.

Rorschach is a serial killer. He will kill anyone in his list, regardless of the alignment. Whether that helps town or not will depend on our luck.

The others are a mystery.

not a fan of this exchange, particularly the last post. it feels like ddl is fluffing here; we don't have any info on the watchmen roles besides what's in the op and speculating on them isn't useful right now, imo.

After catching up on the thread, I have a few small things to say:

1) I'm new to this site so don't think I am a good candidate for policy voting (please), for those of you who support it.
2) I've never heard policy voting but I think it's good to identify that problem within mafia games. I've always hated it and having to explain that, in terms of probability, we are more likely to lynch a townie. That being said, I do not support it in any way.
3) I don't think G-Man is suspicious. Having said that, I barely remember who posted what because everyone is new to me. It's easier if I knew people and can put a personality to the post, so when I get to know everyone a bit more, I will be able to scumhunt more efficiently.
4) How do I vote not to lynch someone? On the site I use, we vote "no lynch." Is there an alternative name for it here or do I just not vote?

this was a minor ping. why so afraid of being up for a policy lynch, Cookie?

I'm just gonna talk. It's gonna get a little stream-of-conscious-y, so I hope y'all don't mind.

Personally, I have a "policy no-lynch". Which is, I avoid lynching on d1 people I know are really good at the game, unless I have a strong reason to.

I like this policy.

I don't. Good players won't usually give you a good reason to vote them on Day 1. If they did, they probably wouldn't be on you 'good players' list. Giving a pass to "good players" is bad. While I realize that you're are not saying that you wouldn't put pressure on or look closely at a "good player" Day 1, you are in a way creating a class of people who are worthy of a free pass. You better believe they take advantage of that charity every time they can.

In writing, there's a phrase: "murder your darlings." Don't be afraid to apply that here. Heaven knows the baddies do it all the time.

Agree with this. Don't ever give mafia a reason to act like or be something - they'll use it to their advantage every time.

Also, I ain't doing no rainbow list. Fuck that noise.

For anyone that has ANY reads whatsoever, that hasn't voiced them yet, I am literally dying to hear them. I'm incredibly intrigued.

Oh dear. You might want to get to a doctor

Since G-Man is prominent in the conversation, I'll include my two cents. I'm torn about him. I agree that he seemed to take the comments in jest about "policy lynching" him Day 1 (P.S., I hadn't heard the term "policy lynch" until this game, but I understand the concept now), which could point to defensiveness. But then again, I empathize with the feeling of being bombarded, in jest or not - it can get rather irritating regardless of alignment, so I'd probably react negatively eventually. But now that I'm re-reading him again, he doesn't sound as irritated in his posts that I previously thought, so I agree with a lot of the points he's been making about mafia in general. He hasn't made any accusations (just an idea to lynch Golden for shits and giggles), but that's pretty normal for Day 1. I think. So, in conclusion, I'm less torn and more...observant and wary, really, since his name is being brought up.

I've always found the concept of using too many adverbs as a sign of baddiness intriguing. Smileys I understand. I like llama's line of thinking, especially for a Day 1 vote. While Days 1 are some people's favorite hunting days, I hate them with a passion, so sometimes you gotta go with whatever you can without a vote record - silence/hiding, evasiveness, or someone profusely and excessively using adverbs and smileys to a great extent I crack myself up

I'm done now. I'll be back after a day trip to Asheville to discuss and vote and stuff.

this is the nijuu post that's drawn a fair bit of suspicion. i don't really find anything particularly damning here. there's some waffling about G-Man but it's like... so? i'm struggling to read an anti-town agenda in a post like this. right now i'm not willing to vote for her (?) on the back of this alone.

people who are voting for them: could you explain the case in terms of why you think nijuu would make a post like this if bad?

I voted for myself. Spent all day cleaning, getting ready, friends due any minute. I will get into the game when I can!

this is a bit weird to me, since I have no experience with self-votes. my gut tells me it's not alignment-indicative, though. people who know timmer: is it like him to engage in wifommy behaviour like this? do you think it says anything about him this game?

Guys, I think G-Man is bad.

Discuss.

leaning town on thellama73, the whole G-Man thing feels like it would be a needlessly bold gambit to pull as scum at this stage. that said I don't agree with the adverb/smiley arguments against sloonei, seems like a style thing more than anything.

[espers]

should be on for the most part up until the deadline.

[Tangrowth]

I'm beginning to consider casting a vote in the direction of someone who has yet to contribute any actual suspects. That would be the following players (from my recollection, I'll have to confirm/deny):

Cookie
espers
G-Man
Long Con
nijuukyugou
Russtifinko
Scotty
timmer

I cannot recall a single suspect from any of these players. I am going to re-read their posts in isolation shortly here.

I do know that G-Man has contributed significant content, but I can't recall a solid assertion of a suspect, even very slight. I may be hesitant to vote this direction. Likewise, Scotty has said quite a bit, but I don't recall him naming a suspect either.

I'm much more hesitant to vote for Cookie, since she is getting accustomed to mafia, as well as our way of playing, etc.

What to do about timmer? He and LC are the most MIA at the moment, but timmer at least came in and self-voted. I can't stand the fact that he self-voted, but I recognize that it doesn't mean he is mafia. It is very unclear what his intentions are.

Linki

[Tangrowth]

I really want to hear from Ninja again before even considering a vote in her direction, and I think anyone else that can wait to vote should do the same.

Rico, thanks for your answers; they are appreciated.

I won't do the same. I would prefer to hear from Ninja again. Setting such an ultimatum, though, is a great way for a baddie to simply say nothing again and not get lynched.

I apologize, I was unclear.

I'm saying, we should wait to see as long as possible before seeing if she can come in, but if she does not deliver, then by all means, vote for her.

[Tangrowth]

quoting a bunch of posts here and asking questions where applicable, this may be a little scattered.

Especially with some of you:
- Cookie, espers, and Scotty, whom I've never played with before
- LoRab, whom I haven't played with in WAY too long
- Russ and DH, whom I haven't played with in too long
- DDL, who has come from NF again to play with us
- Sloonei and espers, who have come all the way from RYM to join us

just a nitpick, but I have played with you before, I was glassrevenue in rym's 84. the reason I make note is that you seem different in this game, making very high effort posts and being more dominant in the discussion. I have a couple ideas for why that might be and I don't really find it suspicious, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on that. (for reference, here is the link to that game for anyone interested)

Espers! You're glassrevenue??? I didn't know that. My apologies! Hello there! No wonder I had thought I hadn't played with you before.

Thanks for your other thoughts, I'm going to digest them now.

[Ricochet]

Timmer was mafia the last time he self-voted, but funny enough that was the least sinful thing he did in there, with his whole Deborah-being-late-forever shenanigans. It rather strikes me as something he'd find the right thing to do, especially in an early phase in which he didn't manage to contribute at all. Neutral for now.

[nijuukyugou]

I really want to hear from Ninja again before even considering a vote in her direction, and I think anyone else that can wait to vote should do the same.

Rico, thanks for your answers; they are appreciated.

Thank you! I'm catching up and about to comment. Stand by.

[Tangrowth]

this is the nijuu post that's drawn a fair bit of suspicion. i don't really find anything particularly damning here. there's some waffling about G-Man but it's like... so? i'm struggling to read an anti-town agenda in a post like this. right now i'm not willing to vote for her (?) on the back of this alone.

people who are voting for them: could you explain the case in terms of why you think nijuu would make a post like this if bad?

I voted for myself. Spent all day cleaning, getting ready, friends due any minute. I will get into the game when I can!

this is a bit weird to me, since I have no experience with self-votes. my gut tells me it's not alignment-indicative, though. people who know timmer: is it like him to engage in wifommy behaviour like this? do you think it says anything about him this game?

Regarding Ninja, you have a good point that I think everyone should consider. I would say that the benefit of making such a post, if she were mafia, would be to seem as though she is contributing, but really is skating by without having to affirm a suspicion. In addition, as I stated earlier, she appeared to set herself up for the possibility of "easy" fallback Day 1 lynch options.

That said, clearly she's behind, and is not the only player to fail (at this moment) to really state a suspicion. I do realize it is Day 1. I really need to hear from her before I make any further decision.

Regarding timmer, I don't know. He isn't really known to self-vote. He has had a couple of games in more recent memory that he had more trouble keeping up with, notably Biblical and The Flash. I do know he generally doesn't play Speed games (24/24) since his schedule is too tight, so it does line up with that explanation. I really have no idea what to make of it.

[Tangrowth]

Timmer was mafia the last time he self-voted, but funny enough that was the least sinful thing he did in there, with his whole Deborah-being-late-forever shenanigans. It rather strikes me as something he'd find the right thing to do, especially in an early phase in which he didn't manage to contribute at all. Neutral for now.

I agree with this.

I've seen timmer be an incredibly engaged and active player, as both alignments, and vice versa.

[Tangrowth]

How is it that I've now made 53 posts, some of them particularly detailed and time intensive and yet I have not been kicked out of the PhD program and am still feeling very unsure of how to cast my vote?

I really hope others come around soon; need to bounce off of others here. I think we should avoid a slew of players coming in and bandwagoning when otherwise avoidable.

[Epignosis]

Total posts:
10504 | Search user’s posts
(6.66% of all posts / 11.22 posts per day)

[Tangrowth]

Total posts:
10503 | Search user’s posts
(6.66% of all posts / 11.22 posts per day)

Truly fitting in every possible way.

All hail, Epignosis, Lord Skeletor, Most Evil of All Villains.

[Ricochet]

Case on Ninja feels to me like "we've been there before". Waffling enough and hardly taking a stance, but not truly bandwagoning either. Besides, the whole "smiley" case for me is overall si-lly, plus she didn't actually hunted Sloonei down for it (in fact Golden first suggested she implied she would vote that way, but where is that exactly in her post? ), but fluffed around the concept. Eloh for instance did take the step and, for now, that makes me lean towards her.

[DharmaHelper]

Today sucks for me so I'm not really 100% caught up or engaged. I'll keep trucking and get a vote in before the poll closes, but it may be (ironically) less than optimal.

[Tangrowth]

Case on Ninja feels to me like "we've been there before". Waffling enough and hardly taking a stance, but not truly bandwagoning either. Besides, the whole "smiley" case for me is overall si-lly, plus she didn't actually hunted Sloonei down for it (in fact Golden first suggested she implied she would vote that way, but where is that exactly in her post? ), but fluffed around the concept. Eloh for instance did take the step and, for now, that makes me lean towards her.

Is Elo the only player you would consider voting today?

Would you caution others against voting for Ninja, based on your thoughts here?

[Tangrowth]

Today sucks for me so I'm not really 100% caught up or engaged. I'll keep trucking and get a vote in before the poll closes, but it may be (ironically) less than optimal.

Understandable, DH. If you do have some time, I'd love to hear your thoughts and discuss with you. Just keep us apprised, as I'm sure you will.

[Ricochet]

espers's take on DDL reminds me that he wasn't appreciated for doing extensive player reads in Guess Who (but back then I think it was already Day 2 and Roxy, one of his critics, had already read him as scum during the previous night, so not a perfect analogy). Although he addressed only the four Watchmen that don't have secrets in their description, so I'm not sure what she found wrong in DDL speculating, either.

[thellama73]

@llama, what do you think of everything in my post history that is not an adverb or a smiley face?

What do I think of everything that doesn't contribute to my case that you are bad? Kind of a loaded question, isn't it?

I was all set to vote G-Man today, but you have been so obsessed with my not-even-really-a-case against you that it is pinging me a lot. You knew I was more inclined to vote G-Man than you, but you keep pestering me about it with ridiculous questions. Way overly defensive.

I think I will vote for you.

[Ricochet]

I mean he* re: espers

[Tangrowth]

@llama, what do you think of everything in my post history that is not an adverb or a smiley face?

What do I think of everything that doesn't contribute to my case that you are bad? Kind of a loaded question, isn't it?

I was all set to vote G-Man today, but you have been so obsessed with my not-even-really-a-case against you that it is pinging me a lot. You knew I was more inclined to vote G-Man than you, but you keep pestering me about it with ridiculous questions. Way overly defensive.

I think I will vote for you.

Llama, how do you feel about Sloonei's behavior here versus Economics? Any glaring similarities or differences? He was supatown in that game, so I'm curious what you think, since you co-hosted that game.

If Russ could contribute his thoughts here too, that'd be awesome.

[Ricochet]

Case on Ninja feels to me like "we've been there before". Waffling enough and hardly taking a stance, but not truly bandwagoning either. Besides, the whole "smiley" case for me is overall si-lly, plus she didn't actually hunted Sloonei down for it (in fact Golden first suggested she implied she would vote that way, but where is that exactly in her post? ), but fluffed around the concept. Eloh for instance did take the step and, for now, that makes me lean towards her.

Is Elo the only player you would consider voting today?

Would you caution others against voting for Ninja, based on your thoughts here?

It's the player I'd lean towards, right now. It's not a very strong pool of baddie reads for me this Day 1.

I'd caution votes for her to be well reasoned, because it feels an easy slide for bandwagoning to jump on.

[Tangrowth]

1 hour to vote and only 3 votes cast? Uh oh. I really hope everyone votes!

Linki w/ Rico: Despite finding Ninja suspicious, I'm increasingly feeling like it is an easy slide as well, hence my hesitation. And likewise, despite my efforts, I feel as though I haven't made any solid breakthroughs.

[Scotty]

Woah. I just got off work and didn't realize that day ended at 9p! Thought it was at 10...I'm catching up now

[DharmaHelper]

Llama, why did you decide to poke me a lot today? Just curious.

Good question. I noticed you were in rather a literal mood, and I saw an opportunity to feel you out, so I took it. Your responses made me feel a lot better about you for what that's worth.
So far I feel good about:
MP
Golden
Russ

and I feel bad about:
G-Man
Sloonei

DH's not feeling like doing a rainbow list is noteworthy too, though not enough for a vote yet. I know I am always a little more apathetic about baddie hunting when I am myself bad.

Everyone else has yet to make a strong impression on me.

Being apathetic about baddie hunting and not wanting to do a stupid rainbow list are two separate issues,

[LoRab]

Voted G-man. Because I find him suspicious.

[thellama73]

Llama, how do you feel about Sloonei's behavior here versus Economics? Any glaring similarities or differences? He was supatown in that game, so I'm curious what you think, since you co-hosted that game.

If Russ could contribute his thoughts here too, that'd be awesome.

I think more active, more post-happy, and more with a hair trigger sensitivity.

[DharmaHelper]

Speaking of DharmaHelper, can you elaborate on any of the reads you have made just yet, or are you still forming them? I've noted what you've said thus far, but I'm a bit unclear on whom you're considering for your vote at the moment.

I am not sure what to think of Scotty, personally. Something about him is giving me pings, but I don't feel comfortable right now voting for him, since it's 100% a gut read and I'd have a hard time building a case around it.

The crowd you asked about originally (Llama, DDL, G-Man, etc) have my eye as well, and I'd maybe put a vote in there. I still haven't gotten to the sloonei thing yet, so I don't know too much about that. Timmer's self vote is frustrating but I feel like there's enough discussion to put a vote somewhere else.

My read on you is kind of odd. You are way too agreeable and friendly, for one thing, like you're afraid to ruffle feathers and you want to get on everyone's good side. Your massive posts also skeeve me out. You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread.

[espers]

espers's take on DDL reminds me that he wasn't appreciated for doing extensive player reads in Guess Who (but back then I think it was already Day 2 and Roxy, one of his critics, had already read him as scum during the previous night, so not a perfect analogy). Although he addressed only the four Watchmen that don't have secrets in their description, so I'm not sure what she found wrong in DDL speculating, either.

dedicating posts to talking about the setup without actually connecting anything to specific players' content is often just a way to blend in and look involved without stepping on any toes, ime. also has potential to distract others from looking for sus behaviour.

[Tangrowth]

Llama, how do you feel about Sloonei's behavior here versus Economics? Any glaring similarities or differences? He was supatown in that game, so I'm curious what you think, since you co-hosted that game.

If Russ could contribute his thoughts here too, that'd be awesome.

I think more active, more post-happy, and more with a hair trigger sensitivity.

More in here or there?

Speaking of DharmaHelper, can you elaborate on any of the reads you have made just yet, or are you still forming them? I've noted what you've said thus far, but I'm a bit unclear on whom you're considering for your vote at the moment.

I am not sure what to think of Scotty, personally. Something about him is giving me pings, but I don't feel comfortable right now voting for him, since it's 100% a gut read and I'd have a hard time building a case around it.

The crowd you asked about originally (Llama, DDL, G-Man, etc) have my eye as well, and I'd maybe put a vote in there. I still haven't gotten to the sloonei thing yet, so I don't know too much about that. Timmer's self vote is frustrating but I feel like there's enough discussion to put a vote somewhere else.

My read on you is kind of odd. You are way too agreeable and friendly, for one thing, like you're afraid to ruffle feathers and you want to get on everyone's good side. Your massive posts also skeeve me out. You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread.

Noted: all around.

Fair enough, re: comments on me. Is there anything you'd like me to address specifically in what you said here or otherwise?

[DharmaHelper]

Llama, how do you feel about Sloonei's behavior here versus Economics? Any glaring similarities or differences? He was supatown in that game, so I'm curious what you think, since you co-hosted that game.

If Russ could contribute his thoughts here too, that'd be awesome.

I think more active, more post-happy, and more with a hair trigger sensitivity.

More in here or there?

Speaking of DharmaHelper, can you elaborate on any of the reads you have made just yet, or are you still forming them? I've noted what you've said thus far, but I'm a bit unclear on whom you're considering for your vote at the moment.

I am not sure what to think of Scotty, personally. Something about him is giving me pings, but I don't feel comfortable right now voting for him, since it's 100% a gut read and I'd have a hard time building a case around it.

The crowd you asked about originally (Llama, DDL, G-Man, etc) have my eye as well, and I'd maybe put a vote in there. I still haven't gotten to the sloonei thing yet, so I don't know too much about that. Timmer's self vote is frustrating but I feel like there's enough discussion to put a vote somewhere else.

My read on you is kind of odd. You are way too agreeable and friendly, for one thing, like you're afraid to ruffle feathers and you want to get on everyone's good side. Your massive posts also skeeve me out. You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread.

Noted: all around.

Fair enough, re: comments on me. Is there anything you'd like me to address specifically in what you said here or otherwise?

Can you cliff notes the Sloonei thing in case I don't get to it in my readback?

[thellama73]

Llama, how do you feel about Sloonei's behavior here versus Economics? Any glaring similarities or differences? He was supatown in that game, so I'm curious what you think, since you co-hosted that game.

If Russ could contribute his thoughts here too, that'd be awesome.

I think more active, more post-happy, and more with a hair trigger sensitivity.

More in here or there?

Here.

[Ricochet]

espers's take on DDL reminds me that he wasn't appreciated for doing extensive player reads in Guess Who (but back then I think it was already Day 2 and Roxy, one of his critics, had already read him as scum during the previous night, so not a perfect analogy). Although he addressed only the four Watchmen that don't have secrets in their description, so I'm not sure what she found wrong in DDL speculating, either.

dedicating posts to talking about the setup without actually connecting anything to specific players' content is often just a way to blend in and look involved without stepping on any toes, ime. also has potential to distract others from looking for sus behaviour.

The way I see it, it was at least slightly connected to the fact that he miscalculated the town vs mafia odds by not counting the Watchmen. I agree the subject of the Watchmen wasn't fully embraced and it didn't add much to his less focused (than in Guess Who) D0-1 game, but it wasn't that out of line either, at least for me.

[Scotty]

Scotty, you have been active in the discussion and prodded a lot of people. Surely you must have quite a few things to say about players at this point. Who are your suspectd in this early phase? Why?

It appears I will be gone for work by the time you get back to answer this.

Still reading, and feel rushed, otherwise I'd do better linking. I'll do more after this phase to back up my thoughts, but for right now:
I didn't name suspects because I gave them all day to respond, and to see what people HAVE been no-shows today. As I said before- in Day 1, I'm looking at no-shows as most suspect, and then most "suspicious", as much as I can find suspicious without concrete data.

No posts (Or barely) in Day 1:
LongCon- 0 posts
Ehlo- 3 posts
Cookie- 4 posts last night.
ninja- 2 (now 3 posts, i'm sure more to come)
timmer- 2 (though he said he would be a no-show)

Of those, Long Con and Ehlo look most suspicious to me in what they say in their limited posts. LC is literally a no-show today, but Ehlo made a statement agreeing with the policy of voting low-posters. She has 3 posts today, and her one post seemed off-the-cuff blase'. Ninja just said she was catching up, so I'll let her respond, but for right now I'm not necessarily suspecting her.

[DharmaHelper]

Guys, I think G-Man is bad.

Discuss.

Things that start with G:
Guilty-Man
Greedy-Man
Ghastly-Man
Gestapo-Man
Glib-Man
Good-Man


I'd wager one of those is right.

Also, he hasn't posted many pictures this game. Like 1 or so. Isn't he known for pictures? Or am I just getting bad info?

From where are you getting this information?

[espers]

sorry if this is weird and out-of-game, but I've noticed Elohcin viewing the thread a few times, but she's keeping quiet. anything you'd like to say? who's your preferred lynch candidate right now?

actually, that can go for everyone. pretend the day ends at xx:40 instead of xx:00. who would you vote for?

i'd go for DDL.

linki: that's fair, it's not exactly a tight case. I still feel he's the most suspicious player so far, though.

[Tangrowth]

You mean why I found Sloonei suspicious or why others do?

As for my view on him, I no longer really find him suspicious. I just don't know what to make of him. Sloonei recently asked if I could elaborate what I thought of him, and I did so here.

To summarize, I did point out one post where I felt like his questions were forced, and I noted elsewhere that his behavior seemed like he was trying too hard to fit his meta (asking tons of questions), instead of genuinely hunting. Other than that, as I noted earlier, there has been something about his posts I couldn't quite put my finger on. Because I couldn't articulate it any further, I've since abandoned my gut feelings on the matter, since it seems I'm likely reading something into his posts that may not be there. I noted that sentiment here. I'll very likely revisit him after we have results in today's lynch, and read his posts in isolation, to help me get a better idea of how I'm viewing his behavior. It's only fair that if I were to vote for him today that I would be much more able to articulate why I think his behavior seems mafia-like.

That said, I also asked a question regarding his vote. Here is his vote post and here is what I was wondering.

[Scotty]

Guys, I think G-Man is bad.

Discuss.

Things that start with G:
Guilty-Man
Greedy-Man
Ghastly-Man
Gestapo-Man
Glib-Man
Good-Man


I'd wager one of those is right.

Also, he hasn't posted many pictures this game. Like 1 or so. Isn't he known for pictures? Or am I just getting bad info?

From where are you getting this information?

From BoB, when I was first introduced to GMan and his eccentricities. He used a copious amount of pictures as his posts, and someone (I don't remember or care to look it up) said that ~he was known for that in previous games.

[Elohcin]

Okay, so I got a last minute cake order and am working tonight.I have one hour to read three pages and vote

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

Me neither.

Same here

Not I.

Did anyone else notice how Elo seemingly jumped onto a vibes-based suspicion of Sloonei (which I held)

Maye I just like you. Watch out daisy!

and then dropped it, after I dropped it? What do folks think of that? I'm not sure what to make of Elo right now.

I didn't notice you dropped it.

Elo, can you elaborate on your reads of those individuals in your most recent post? Particularly I'm interested in why you find me to be civilian this game, but in Economics, you said I seemed overly helpful.

In economics, it was like you were hyped up on caffeine. That was odd and suspicious to me. My memories of you being bad all include a bit of nuttiness. Today you seem calmly helpful, no nutty behavior.

Who else specifically would you like to hear about, I thought I elaborated already in reply to someone else.

OK, at this point I will say what I think.

I think Elo's read on DDL was genuine, and it makes me feel good about her.

DDL expressed in our chat room that he found being mafia difficult, particularly on this site, and we all essentially agreed that he was getting caught and looked bad because you could sense he wasn't as comfortable in the thread. Elo is aware of this because she was in that chat room.

From my perspective, her reading DDL as good because he seems comfortable is legit, based on how things went down in Guess Who.

That doesn't mean DDL is good, of course, but I do think Elo's read was legitimate and it made me feel good about her.

MP this is exactly what I was thinking when I wrote the post about DDL. I wasn't going to elaborate this much as I feel like it was giving too much info about the Guess Who BTSC, but since Golden spelled it out for y'all there you go.

I am not done catching up, still over 2 pages to go, but I feel I ought to post for what I have read so far.

[Tangrowth]

sorry if this is weird and out-of-game, but I've noticed Elohcin viewing the thread a few times, but she's keeping quiet. anything you'd like to say? who's your preferred lynch candidate right now?

actually, that can go for everyone. pretend the day ends at xx:40 instead of xx:00. who would you vote for?

i'd go for DDL.

linki: that's fair, it's not exactly a tight case. I still feel he's the most suspicious player so far, though.

If I had to vote now? Ugh. That's tough.

I'm starting to lean toward my original thoughts on G-Man again, so perhaps there.