Transistor [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dammit, RIP nutella.

Scotty, I'm not sure why you're suspecting me so heavily. I responded in detail to concerns about my shifting thoughts on Elo and asked you if you still had concerns about it but I never heard from you, and now you're attacking me based on my shifting thoughts on nutella, saying I provided no reasons, when otherwise I have. I'll pull up detailed quotes later, but I'm still way too busy to respond to things in detail right now. I'll respond to JJJ at that time as well.

I can join the vote for Young Lady.

I've looked at your post history and Scotty is right that your read on nutella has covered a lot of ground in this game, and it's not entirely clear why she moved up and down your rainbows as she did. She was your initial suspect of interest on Day 1, and even the player you were loudly lamenting nobody was interested in lynching when you were lambasting people for the Zebra lynch. You were clearly zoned in on nutella. Your baddie read on her seemed to soften a little as your read on Elohcin shifted for the worse, but I don't see the support for it shifting from orange to green. The shift back from green into the baddie colors is also hard to follow in your content. That's not a great look considering the ease of her lynch -- to read her as bad after having read her as good without a clear progression is suggestive of you capitalizing on the wagon.

[Snapshot]

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That Snapshot bothered to compile that ISO on DrumBeats at all suggests to me that some kind of agenda is being pursued and that we probably shouldn't entirely ignore it. I'll allow DrumBeats to answer to it before I state my own perspective.

The agenda hasn't changed. Locate and destroy the process, help civilians while doing so.

It is entirely possible and likely that DrumBeats and MP are on the same team. This is based on DrumBeats interactions with MP.

[DrumBeats]

Wow, Process wants me dead. In response to JJJ thinking the Process has an agenda in ISO'ing me, that much is obvious. I am a threat to them because I have been and will continue to be the most vocal person in pursuing the eradication of the Process.

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I think it's time we lynch Drumbeats. I did an ISO on him and here's what I got.

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Spoiler: show

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Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.

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Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.

That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.

Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.

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Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.

That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.

Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.

Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just try to lynch the player with the role? We have no idea how the game will progress from this starting point and what information or circumstances we might encounter to facilitate that hunt. It's a four man scum team, and this kind of significant Process-oriented focus is the opposite of how to pursue their elimination. Pending ability strength variables, I think town starts this game behind the eight ball in the numbers as it is.

Hence why we make it a deal with the scum. We do not get behind if scum shoots the process instead of us. However, if both factions allow the process to go unimpeded for the bulk of the game, I bet it will take both of us down in endgame easily. It seems to have a lot of roles. I think it is very reasonable to be proactive in getting rid of it early, as long as the scumteam proves their cooperation by shooting first. Only person who should be opposed to this arrangement is the process itself.

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Lastly, for the idea that DrumBeats proposed regarding working "with the mafia" to eliminate The Process, I don't think worrying about this at this stage is healthy, since:
1) I don't know how we are supposed to effectively hunt for The Process at this time.
2) You can never "trust" the mafia enough to work with them on something.

Nonetheless, it does seem both factions have a mutual benefit in ridding the game of The Process, so I think inadvertently the mafia will be working with us on that matter. I don't think any specific attempt to work with them would be at all fruitful, unless we reach a certain point later in the game where we can somehow try to pinpoint The Process based on actual hunting procedures, and at that time we can re-open this discussion. But that's just my opinion.

Trying to shut down talk of taking out the Process are we? Noted.

It is healthy and arguably necessary to discuss this early in the game. Both factions have a mutual benefit, we will know we can trust the mafia to work with us should they kill one of the process elements tonight. Then we equivalent exchange lynch one the next day. It benefits everyone besides the Process and does nothing to disrupt the town/scum ratio.

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By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though?

By allowing us to hit them when the time comes. I guarantee you at least one of those is something that keeps them safe. If we cut off the Process's power it won't be able to hurt us as much later. Also, if you look at the cheerleader it says that it's vote is worth one. I'm worried that the process will get more votes the longer we wait. We've got nothing to lose, assuming mafia targets them and not a civ first.

And in regards to your more recent post, there really is not anything to further this. My only thought on it is that if we do not agree to the terms as a town, I doubt the mafia will target the Process because they would not trust us to keep up our end. Hence why I've been pushing the idea, hoping to save us from a civ shot tonight.

Also, MP, what are your thoughts on Zebra and the potential scumslip I mentioned?

I'll respond with some more reads in a second but my primary one is scum!Zebra

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So here's almost half of drumbeats posts, they deal mostly with finding and eliminating the process via targeting the elements. 1st of all, I don't understand were the notion that the elements are the process came from.

The Process will manifest itself in multiple ways.

Makes me think that there are both players and elements that serve the process. Perhaps some are civs and some are mafia. All I know is that this game isn't as clear cut as some believe.

Something to be noted about the last &^*@^#$*& was Drumbeats worry. Drumbeats not only encouraged mafia to kill an element (a cute one at that), but was also worried about the elements. Perhaps that worry caught up to Drumbeats and forced his hand during last nights NK?

Also in Drumbeat's &(*@#(* quote, we see first sign of suspicion towards Zebra, based on supposed slip.

LOLOL LOVE THIS. The Process is trying to spread that the elements are not a part of the Process when they are clearly under the Process in the OP, just like the Camarata are clearly under the Camarata. Lmao nice try, not buying it, try again.


If I were mafia, an element would've been killed night 1. That simple. Eliminating the Process is part of both factions win con, so a back and forth arrangement only hurts the Process itself.

Also note: The Snapshot did not give a complete ISO. Snapshot gave an ISO that served its own motives best. Many of my posts are not in here.

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Here are the reads I have atm:

Town reads/leans:
MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion
Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia"
JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc.

Null reads:
DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this
Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here.

Scum reads/leans:
Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now.
Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit.

Dependent read:
Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question.

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A townread on Eloh, a scumread as two players I ANALYZE as being good... noted in Illyria re// Drum seems to have a solid mindset on what the mafia want to do, and will do (from last night). A vague gap left for Wilgy.

@DRUMBEATS how did Wilgy compare to Illyria?

Yes, I townread Eloh day one. As I said, I was biased due to Eloh being the one of few people actually considering working towards taking down the Process. Process is a clear threat, and there was and is an easy way to weaken it. May as well use it.

I have a solid mindset on what both sides win conditions are. Eliminating you is necessary for both so I proposed a deal. Can't help it that the mafia (finally) took it.

I don't recall Wilgy doing much of anything. Any posts he made lacked content imo. Hence the null read.

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Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.

Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.

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Looking back. Calling Nutella Juice opportunistic for not agreeing with your plan and starting the Nutella Juice line of product isn't a good look.

Lmao, quote all of them if you want to actually push a case based on it. I fully explained the situation. It wasn't on nutella not agreeing with my plan, her reference of "malicious intent" within it without being able to provide any possible malicious intent was the reason. If I were suspecting people for not listening to me, almost the whole thread would be a scumread for me right now.

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nijuukyugou

Spoiler: show

Wait how is it STILL Day 1?

How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit.

Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win.

This is snipped from a larger post. She asserted that Zebra's behavior was "weird as shit", but didn't make a definitive accusation. I'll follow the progression.

Her comment @DrumBeats strikes me as a misconstruing of what he was proposing. This came after he reiterated/restated his idea to emphasize that it required no actual trust of the baddie team (because it required them to make the first move). I'm not sure what trust nijuu was suggesting had to exist for this plan to function. I don't know whether that means anything, but it's something nijuu can talk about and perhaps that'll substantiate any resulting read.

Argh. Now I understand how DrumBeats felt. I didn't misconstrue what he proposed, at least as far as I know. I know the plan was contingent upon the mafia acting first in civilian favor. I reiterate that even if this happened, it STILL requires trust in the mafia to do the back and forth, and for us to be on their side by lynching an element. They would still have to comply in lynching the element with us, too. But I suppose now that I think about it, it would be hard to hide if you chose not to vote along as an "agreement." Still, it's too risky, their team is too big, and there are too many unknowns at this point, especially at the point that the plan was proposed. Does that make sense? I don't blame him or think he's bad for suggesting the plan; I just don't think it's a good idea.

I'll post more substantially later tonight or tomorrow, but I did want to respond to that first.

Linki - The site's been kinda funky lately, at least for me, and I think others, as well, but tonight it's cooperating

Nope, you don't know how I felt because you didn't have literally the whole thread misconstrue and not actually read what you were saying. I will say it again though, no trust is needed. It doesn't even have to be a back and forth with the mafia, I'm just proposing a 1:1 trade with them. They kill an element instead of us, we lynch one. Easy and harmless for us, and it hurts the Process.

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Rather harsh to say the whole thread miscontrue'd something. Miscontrue'd is not a string within my database. Unkown if this hurts the process, but Drum continues pushing the notion.

Not really when they all did. I laid out the plan plain and simple (in posts you ignored nonetheless) and everyone acted like I was saying "omg blindly trust the mafia."

Clearly it does, or you wouldn't be pushing me so hard ;D

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I'm glad McDougall is here. He can usually see through the nonsense. The Cell reads JJJ as inconclusive. Is that not suspicious to anyone else?

Think you're grasping at straws there. There are barrels of WIFOM behind anything the Process posts, anything they say about people are inconclusive honestly. You grasping onto that makes me wonder if you're scum or mafia trying to take an easy shot.

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All accusations of opportunism are discredited based on data above. Seems to be a common angle with Drum. Slips and calling opportunism. Perhaps it can be called opportunism here, but these claims seem too easy.

Never called it opportunism. I said that anything you and your Process buddies say is WIFOM because the motivations inherent in it are unknown. Are you discrediting someone to make them seem like they aren't the Process when they are, or are you trying to take out someone you perceive to be a threat to the process? We cannot understand the full motivations behind it.

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Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.

Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.

What are you talking about? Of course there could be malicious intent in steering the lynches away from the mafia. I said that it would be dangerous, and it was a reasonable at the time to think you might have intentions of keeping the mafia alive. And it still could be, but again I don't really suspect you as much anymore; that doesn't mean my original suspicion was unfounded or opportunistic. It may have been exaggerated by a misunderstanding of your plan but it was still legitimate and can still apply to the clarified plan.

It definitely was opportunistic and here's why:

-All of the info about the plan was out there before you posted it. You knew it was a trade-off rather than a "Let's all lynch only the Process." Despite this, you are only highlighting the part of the plan that allows for a push, ie the "wasting" of a lynch. Intentionally neglecting the requirements for us to "waste" our lynch, which is the mafia "wasting" their kill on the previous night, makes your reasoning seem sound, despite its numerous fallacies.

-Enough people were uncomfortable with the idea at the time that it would be an opportunity for an easy push based on mere paranoia. Pointing out "malicious intent" without specifying anything was a great way to try to shift that paranoia into a mislynch, either that day or down the line.

-Nothing has changed about my plan since you made this post, but now that you have received backlash for it, the suspicion is no longer present. The only two things that have changed are that you have received backlash and that a few more people are opening up to my idea. The fact that you let go of your suspicion now shows that it is likely due to either wanting to avoid the backlash, or realizing the opportunity to push a mislynch on it is gone now, because nothing about the plan/my behavior has changed. Also, in your first response to my question about the malicious intent, you never elaborated upon it, just starting to give the "I didn't fully understand it" defense, which we will get into in the next bullet point

-The confusion about the plan allows for the easy cop out defense which you are providing right now: "I didn't understand it." It was very clearly laid out, and for town!you to develop a scumread upon it, I would expect you to have paid enough attention to it to know both aspects of it and that it hinges upon the mafia acting first, therefore maintaining a 1:1 lynch:kill ratio.

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I find this humorous. RIP in peace Nutella brand Juice cartons.

Oh ok so you actually quote the post with the full reasoning but still insist it was just for "disagreeing with me". I find this humorous

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I've laid out my reasons and I do not find Elo to be a better option imo.

Nutella

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Mentioning Elo, where it doesn't need to be mentioned is a very bad look.

Elo was the main wagon, and I did not believe Elo to be more scummy than Nutella. If I were scum with Eloh, there would have been no reason for me to not hop onto that wagon for town cred because it was pretty clear that Elo was going to be the lynch.
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fixed!>.

My final processing of Drumbeats is rather bad. Two theories come to mind. He's either mafia, or he is somehow aligned with the process. These set in stone thoughts about the process leads me to believe he might know more than others, and wants others to think in a certain manner. His confiding in the mafia to eliminate us also can point to either Drum being mafia or process. I do not believe eliminating me will assist in your search for the process, and I do believe we are being scapegoated. Mentions of Elo that are wrong, or misplaced cause for worry. Voting off wagon civs until his wagon came around is not good either.

Final percent:
70% Mafia
30% Process

LMAO - When the Process calls you the Process. Eliminating a Process element may not help the search, but it does stop you from controlling late game lynches. You clearly have a large stockpile of votes, we have already seen two positive votes and one negative, which could be used to drop a competing wagon. And that's only the ones we can see currently. We need to get rid of these voting elements plain and simple.

Explain how for both of these things. Neither conclusion makes any sense.

The fact that you left no room for the possibility of me being civ in your read proves that you are not an outside player. This is clearly the Process speaking and trying to push an agenda.

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DrumBeats

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh. So yeah. We need to lynch one of these. I actually based on that ISO suspect JJJ or MP to be the Process controlling all of these. One thing I noticed was that the whole time JJJ posted, he was uninterupted by these Socks.

[DrumBeats]

With that, I am going to place my vote as well. Based on what I have seen here, I think Operator is the one I want to pursue. I'm not sure what "Luna" is, but in case it is a process thing, the fact that it voted Snapshot makes me feel like it is trying to make us push that one. Combined with JJJ's disagreement in lynching Operator, if he is the process he could be trying to push us away from the stronger one. All theorizing, but this is pretty clear cut imo.

Operator

[Tangrowth]

I'm sorry guys, my schedule is just killing me. I'm unfortunately probably going to have to stop playing games again after I'm done with this one and Draconus's AoT. I'm fine with killing a member of The Process considering the mafia killed one last night. I'll vote Operator as well.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wow, Process wants me dead. In response to JJJ thinking the Process has an agenda in ISO'ing me, that much is obvious. I am a threat to them because I have been and will continue to be the most vocal person in pursuing the eradication of the Process.

I am inclined to agree. I don't really feel like Snapshot provided an unbiased perspective of your post history. The point it made linking you to the night kill of Young Lady strikes me as especially dubious, because it'd be an inconsistency to associate your early game anti-Process talk, which always required the baddies to make the first move, with this sort of "worry that caught up to you". That'd be to suggest that you're the only player in the game who'd kill a process element at any point, and that's not an association I think is sensible. I'm not entirely convinced that we have to perceive every element of the Process as being partially or completely motivated to assist whichever player has that role, because that would seem overpowered to me -- a lot of abilities that would combine to create an extremely formidable arsenal. Snapshot's move against you though, being sort of anti-anti-Process as it is, would seem by extension pro-Process.

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh. So yeah. We need to lynch one of these. I actually based on that ISO suspect JJJ or MP to be the Process controlling all of these. One thing I noticed was that the whole time JJJ posted, he was uninterupted by these Socks.

I'm sorry but that's very silly. I made a few posts in succession while I was around and apparently nobody else was. There's really nothing more to say about that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm sorry guys, my schedule is just killing me. I'm unfortunately probably going to have to stop playing games again after I'm done with this one and Draconus's AoT. I'm fine with killing a member of The Process considering the mafia killed one last night. I'll vote Operator as well.

I can understand that you're busy, shit happens. Regardless, I really want to know where your reads stand right now. If you have time to make a post, you have time to contribute content. You've fallen off the content cliff you built on Day 1 and that drop in activity has mirrored an increase in the pressure on you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I really believe that each of these sock accounts is being controlled by a different person, probably someone who didn't originally sign up to play. I don't know whether they have unique win conditions or if they're all just associated with the Process "faction", presumably headed by one of the 17 players who originally signed up. The only alternative I can think of would be that some players in the game are also granted access to a Process element sock, but I know that doesn't hold true for me at least. It'd also seem like it'd muddle up the alignments too much to make sense.

[MacDougall]

Let's lynch one and see what falls out.

[Ned Flanders]

Vote: Snapshot

Luna dawg knows whats up holla atcha boy

[Operator]

BEEEEP BEEEEP BEEEEP

CONClUSION THE OPERATOR HAS REACHED........MP IS PROCCESS PROCCESS MAFIA MAFIA MAFIA MAFIA MAFIA

YOUNG LADY WARNED US YOUNG LADY DIED BEEEP BEEEEP BOOOOP 10101012010101010

OPERATOR BELIEVES THE PROCCESS MUST BE DESTORYED
DESTORY PROCCESS VOTE MP DESTORY MAFIA VOTE MP.....

[agleaminranks]

So the Process elements are trying to kill each other as well?

[kneel4justice]

I'm thinking that these sock-puppet accounts are run by different players who aren't on the sign-up list (Golden, birdwithteeth, Roxy, etc) and that these players have access to a thread that no one else can see - which is where these snapshots are coming from. Maybe the longer the game goes on, the more elements/players are added in....so it is best to lynch the process elements earlier in the game. What isn't making sense for me is, the process must be 1 of the 17 original players since there were 17 roles..I'd think that it would make most sense to need that player dead rather than the sockpuppet accounts??

Anyway, I definitely don't think that the ISO on DrumBeats is valid. I think it comes with an obvious agenda. But certainly Roxy (I am just going to assume for now that she really wrote that post) would have known the ISO would not come with an actual lynch outcome. So that doesn't quite make sense.
Also, with the above being said, I'd also disagree that JJJ is running the sockpuppet accounts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So the Process elements are trying to kill each other as well?

Seemingly so. We're left to decide whether that's a bunch of elaborate WIFOM or an indicator that the Process is more complex than just being a sole independent role. I'm inclined to think the latter is more likely.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm thinking that these sock-puppet accounts are run by different players who aren't on the sign-up list (Golden, birdwithteeth, Roxy, etc) and that these players have access to a thread that no one else can see - which is where these snapshots are coming from. Maybe the longer the game goes on, the more elements/players are added in....so it is best to lynch the process elements earlier in the game. What isn't making sense for me is, the process must be 1 of the 17 original players since there were 17 roles..I'd think that it would make most sense to need that player dead rather than the sockpuppet accounts??

Anyway, I definitely don't think that the ISO on DrumBeats is valid. I think it comes with an obvious agenda. But certainly Roxy (I am just going to assume for now that she really wrote that post) would have known the ISO would not come with an actual lynch outcome. So that doesn't quite make sense.
Also, with the above being said, I'd also disagree that JJJ is running the sockpuppet accounts.

What don't you like about the ISO on DrumBeats, and why don't you think I'm running the socks?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not averse to the notion of lynching an element. The town win condition clearly states a need to "destroy the Process", and having these elements available in the lynch poll would seem to indicate there'd be a valid reason to lynch them. It's crappy that we don't actually know what we're stuck choosing between Snapshot and Operator, both mysteries -- and I maintain that the name of the role is meaningless, that has had no bearing on the abilities attached to them so far (Young Lady has a ghost, Cell has no real vote, Weed has a negative vote, etc... it's all quite random). I don't think it should be Luna since that's not even one of the elements in the OP.

If we think about it in terms of the actual thread content provided by each, I'd suggest Snapshot seems less trustworthy than Operator given its push against DrumBeats. That strikes me as self-serving and pro-Process.

[kneel4justice]

I'm thinking that these sock-puppet accounts are run by different players who aren't on the sign-up list (Golden, birdwithteeth, Roxy, etc) and that these players have access to a thread that no one else can see - which is where these snapshots are coming from. Maybe the longer the game goes on, the more elements/players are added in....so it is best to lynch the process elements earlier in the game. What isn't making sense for me is, the process must be 1 of the 17 original players since there were 17 roles..I'd think that it would make most sense to need that player dead rather than the sockpuppet accounts??

Anyway, I definitely don't think that the ISO on DrumBeats is valid. I think it comes with an obvious agenda. But certainly Roxy (I am just going to assume for now that she really wrote that post) would have known the ISO would not come with an actual lynch outcome. So that doesn't quite make sense.
Also, with the above being said, I'd also disagree that JJJ is running the sockpuppet accounts.

What don't you like about the ISO on DrumBeats, and why don't you think I'm running the socks?

I think the ISO is coming from a member of the process.
I also think it would make sense for the members of the process to want DrumBeats dead. Especially now, since it would appear that Drumbeat's original plan/offer for the mafia to kill an element and then the town to lynch an element is happening.
Also, the part of the ISO that suggests DrumBeats could be the process just looks to me that the ISO is bias/unreliable and that the account was doing anything they could to paint DrumBeats as suspicious.
But that is also making me wonder if this is some kind of reverse psychology, because certainly this sock puppet account should know that we would not take the ISO seriously.

I do not think you're the sockpuppet accounts, because as I stated, I am thinking the sockpuppet accounts are being run by players who are not on the original sign-up list....did you even read my post?

[kneel4justice]

I'm not averse to the notion of lynching an element. The town win condition clearly states a need to "destroy the Process", and having these elements available in the lynch poll would seem to indicate there'd be a valid reason to lynch them. It's crappy that we don't actually know what we're stuck choosing between Snapshot and Operator, both mysteries -- and I maintain that the name of the role is meaningless, that has had no bearing on the abilities attached to them so far (Young Lady has a ghost, Cell has no real vote, Weed has a negative vote, etc... it's all quite random). I don't think it should be Luna since that's not even one of the elements in the OP.

If we think about it in terms of the actual thread content provided by each, I'd suggest Snapshot seems less trustworthy than Operator given its push against DrumBeats. That strikes me as self-serving and pro-Process.

I'm not sure. Snapchat seems to be providing us with more information than the other elements, in terms of what the process could actually be - as it has quoted players who are not visibly in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do not think you're the sockpuppet accounts, because as I stated, I am thinking the sockpuppet accounts are being run by players who are not on the original sign-up list....did you even read my post?

Yeah, and I didn't even make that connection. I'm dumb. I saw an assertion about me tacked onto the end of the post and I prodded.

[Snapshot]

Wow, Process wants me dead. In response to JJJ thinking the Process has an agenda in ISO'ing me, that much is obvious. I am a threat to them because I have been and will continue to be the most vocal person in pursuing the eradication of the Process.

I am inclined to agree. I don't really feel like Snapshot provided an unbiased perspective of your post history. The point it made linking you to the night kill of Young Lady strikes me as especially dubious, because it'd be an inconsistency to associate your early game anti-Process talk, which always required the baddies to make the first move, with this sort of "worry that caught up to you". That'd be to suggest that you're the only player in the game who'd kill a process element at any point, and that's not an association I think is sensible. I'm not entirely convinced that we have to perceive every element of the Process as being partially or completely motivated to assist whichever player has that role, because that would seem overpowered to me -- a lot of abilities that would combine to create an extremely formidable arsenal. Snapshot's move against you though, being sort of anti-anti-Process as it is, would seem by extension pro-Process.

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh. So yeah. We need to lynch one of these. I actually based on that ISO suspect JJJ or MP to be the Process controlling all of these. One thing I noticed was that the whole time JJJ posted, he was uninterupted by these Socks.

I'm sorry but that's very silly. I made a few posts in succession while I was around and apparently nobody else was. There's really nothing more to say about that.

re//
cloned instance created//

I'm not going to lie about what caught my eye and why I originally ISO'd DrumBeats, and yes it was his targeting of us elements. In regards to lynching other elements, I don't think they are actually scum hunting, and I don't think they can all be town aligned. Drum, MP, Man, Luna, Cell. Sad that the Young Lady was killed because out of all the elements, I thought she may have been in the same boat as I (if I were an element of course).

u - Perhaps, you are correct. Drumbeats I found to be the most vocal in regards to killing off elements, and in my head I linked them together.

b - When does this flip occur? I'm looking for those who have more information I would advise everyone else do the same.

I don't have time to respond to Drum's in ISO responses, I'll try to do so before EoD.
(also, if there's a means to learn what I do, that may be able to assist you in reading me)

[agleaminranks]

I'm not averse to the notion of lynching an element. The town win condition clearly states a need to "destroy the Process", and having these elements available in the lynch poll would seem to indicate there'd be a valid reason to lynch them. It's crappy that we don't actually know what we're stuck choosing between Snapshot and Operator, both mysteries -- and I maintain that the name of the role is meaningless, that has had no bearing on the abilities attached to them so far (Young Lady has a ghost, Cell has no real vote, Weed has a negative vote, etc... it's all quite random). I don't think it should be Luna since that's not even one of the elements in the OP.

If we think about it in terms of the actual thread content provided by each, I'd suggest Snapshot seems less trustworthy than Operator given its push against DrumBeats. That strikes me as self-serving and pro-Process.

I'm still unsure as to whether it's a good idea to go after the Process elements pro-quo or not. Seems to me like the Process elements are only showing up a few at a time and are infighting, providing misinformation, possible misinformation, and steering the thread in all sorts of ways. It's a lot to take in.

At the same time, only one person has been nightkilled per night, people who I'm assuming were civilian and killed by Mafia members.

While you're not wrong about the win condition, and knowing Epi, I'd say there's something significant to not only that but also all of the Element interactions as well, it's not going to mean much if there aren't any civilians left at the end.

Point being, the Process' elements seem so tangled up with each other that I see them as less a threat than the Mafia. I think it would be in the civilians' best interest to focus on baddie hunting until they are all gone and we can cooperate on eliminating the Process, whatever form that may take.

I'm also open to other opinions if someone can give a reasonable enough explanation as to why it would be in the civilians' favor to target the elements of the Process first.

[nijuukyugou]

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

[agleaminranks]

I am voting kneel4justice. I will provide further rationale coming soon.

[kneel4justice]

I am voting kneel4justice. I will provide further rationale coming soon.

Would have been nice of you to provide rationale before the vote, but okay.

[kneel4justice]

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

I would like to hear from MP about this Nutella change. To me it seems foolish for him to go throughout the course of the game suspecting and then change opinions when Nutella were going to be lynched, because the damage is already done. It would be a poor decision if scum. But I can't expect everyone to act how I would if I were scum in their position. I've been holding the mindset that MP would be trying harder if he were scum and that the silencing was real because I didn't see him as the type to cop out if he were mafia, but perhaps I've been too blinded by these expectations of him.

[kneel4justice]

I'm not averse to the notion of lynching an element. The town win condition clearly states a need to "destroy the Process", and having these elements available in the lynch poll would seem to indicate there'd be a valid reason to lynch them. It's crappy that we don't actually know what we're stuck choosing between Snapshot and Operator, both mysteries -- and I maintain that the name of the role is meaningless, that has had no bearing on the abilities attached to them so far (Young Lady has a ghost, Cell has no real vote, Weed has a negative vote, etc... it's all quite random). I don't think it should be Luna since that's not even one of the elements in the OP.

If we think about it in terms of the actual thread content provided by each, I'd suggest Snapshot seems less trustworthy than Operator given its push against DrumBeats. That strikes me as self-serving and pro-Process.

I'm still unsure as to whether it's a good idea to go after the Process elements pro-quo or not. Seems to me like the Process elements are only showing up a few at a time and are infighting, providing misinformation, possible misinformation, and steering the thread in all sorts of ways. It's a lot to take in.

At the same time, only one person has been nightkilled per night, people who I'm assuming were civilian and killed by Mafia members.

While you're not wrong about the win condition, and knowing Epi, I'd say there's something significant to not only that but also all of the Element interactions as well, it's not going to mean much if there aren't any civilians left at the end.

Point being, the Process' elements seem so tangled up with each other that I see them as less a threat than the Mafia. I think it would be in the civilians' best interest to focus on baddie hunting until they are all gone and we can cooperate on eliminating the Process, whatever form that may take.

I'm also open to other opinions if someone can give a reasonable enough explanation as to why it would be in the civilians' favor to target the elements of the Process first.

In theory, if the mafia and town were to cooperate - it would actually make most logical sense to get rid of the process elements first. Though, this would have to be under the assumption that the elements need to be killed/lynched in order to defeat that faction. But, if the mafia is killing elements, and the thread is lynching elements, the mafia is not killing civs, and the civs are not mis-lynching each other. Thus, when the elements are gone - the mafia and civs would be at the same number that they are currently. No worse than they are now - only better as the factions would not have to deal with the threat of the process. That is why it might be smart to be lynching the elements as opposed to trying to lynch the baddies. However, the problem with this is - do the elements really need to be killed or lynched to defeat the faction. It seems weird, and I disagreed with that idea - but the recent snapshot posts with other users has made me more inclined to consider the possibility.

Someone who I've been surprised with this game is Llama. I expected more from him because the games I have played, I recall him being more towards the center of attention. Unfortunately I am not sure how much of that actually comes down to alignment or comes down to time availability. I do wonder if the quick vote for JJJ was to try and steer the town away from the idea of lynching an element.
And that is not actually against the suspicion of JJJ, because I have noticed JJJ asking a lot of questions - some which I find myself thinking the answers are obvious, thus making me wonder if Llama was correct about the helpful persona.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have asked a lot of questions. Someone has to try and motivate some content into this thread of 900 posts on Day 5. K4J, what questions have I asked that you'd say have "obvious" answers beyond the one we just spoke of earlier on this page?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

re//
cloned instance created//

I'm not going to lie about what caught my eye and why I originally ISO'd DrumBeats, and yes it was his targeting of us elements. In regards to lynching other elements, I don't think they are actually scum hunting, and I don't think they can all be town aligned. Drum, MP, Man, Luna, Cell. Sad that the Young Lady was killed because out of all the elements, I thought she may have been in the same boat as I (if I were an element of course).

u - Perhaps, you are correct. Drumbeats I found to be the most vocal in regards to killing off elements, and in my head I linked them together.

b - When does this flip occur? I'm looking for those who have more information I would advise everyone else do the same.

I don't have time to respond to Drum's in ISO responses, I'll try to do so before EoD.
(also, if there's a means to learn what I do, that may be able to assist you in reading me)

I'm not sure what you mean in your <b> note -- what flip? DrumBeats has been the player who's shown the most interest in attacking Process elements and I think a Process element making an enemy of him is inherently hard to trust, particularly when the ISO provided doesn't seem an impartial one.

[kneel4justice]

I have asked a lot of questions. Someone has to try and motivate some content into this thread of 900 posts on Day 5. K4J, what questions have I asked that you'd say have "obvious" answers beyond the one we just spoke of earlier on this page?

There are a lot of players that I don't feel I have a good read on because I haven't seen enough material from them and wish they were being more participant, so I can appreciate that.
I just noticed when you were asking me questions - I thought the answers were fairly obvious (maybe they were just to me because they were in my head). First it was about why I did not think Eloh and Niju were teammates, I felt Niju's posts towards Eloh had given an obvious answer to that, and since you ISO'd those, I expected you would understand why I had said that. Then there was today, which was not actually just your question about why I did not think you were the sockpuppet, but also about the ISO having an agenda towards DrumBeats is something I felt too was obvious, as I believe you yourself held that same opinion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have asked a lot of questions. Someone has to try and motivate some content into this thread of 900 posts on Day 5. K4J, what questions have I asked that you'd say have "obvious" answers beyond the one we just spoke of earlier on this page?

There are a lot of players that I don't feel I have a good read on because I haven't seen enough material from them and wish they were being more participant, so I can appreciate that.
I just noticed when you were asking me questions - I thought the answers were fairly obvious (maybe they were just to me because they were in my head). First it was about why I did not think Eloh and Niju were teammates, I felt Niju's posts towards Eloh had given an obvious answer to that, and since you ISO'd those, I expected you would understand why I had said that. Then there was today, which was not actually just your question about why I did not think you were the sockpuppet, but also about the ISO having an agenda towards DrumBeats is something I felt too was obvious, as I believe you yourself held that same opinion.

The portion I highlighted is itself perhaps the most important reason for my questions. Even if I suspect I already know what someone's answer is going to be when I ask a question, I still must ask it -- particularly when I have taken a clear stance in the thread that is later shared by someone else. I have to assess everyone who is taking any manner of stance to judge whether an authentic thought process led to it, instead of people merely adopting the ideas presented first by other people. In many cases this means people adopting ideas I put forth first, because I tend to be someone who puts a lot of stances/reads/theories into the game. Moreover, in the event my reads turn out incorrect, answers I get to those questions can prove valuable later when retroactive analysis is needed. It's a way of forcing players to take personal responsibility for the thoughts they express in the thread instead of hiding behind the more vocal player's contributions (often mine).

[kneel4justice]

I've got to go. Went ahead and voted Operator because I do think the elements are the best place to vote now strategic-wise, and I do think Snapshot is the element providing the most insight into the process so it's better to keep that around for now in case it provides more information later on. I'd like to discuss more with players, hopefully more material can be posted within the time frame of the next vote

[kneel4justice]

I have asked a lot of questions. Someone has to try and motivate some content into this thread of 900 posts on Day 5. K4J, what questions have I asked that you'd say have "obvious" answers beyond the one we just spoke of earlier on this page?

There are a lot of players that I don't feel I have a good read on because I haven't seen enough material from them and wish they were being more participant, so I can appreciate that.
I just noticed when you were asking me questions - I thought the answers were fairly obvious (maybe they were just to me because they were in my head). First it was about why I did not think Eloh and Niju were teammates, I felt Niju's posts towards Eloh had given an obvious answer to that, and since you ISO'd those, I expected you would understand why I had said that. Then there was today, which was not actually just your question about why I did not think you were the sockpuppet, but also about the ISO having an agenda towards DrumBeats is something I felt too was obvious, as I believe you yourself held that same opinion.

The portion I highlighted is itself perhaps the most important reason for my questions. Even if I suspect I already know what someone's answer is going to be when I ask a question, I still must ask it -- particularly when I have taken a clear stance in the thread that is later shared by someone else. I have to assess everyone who is taking any manner of stance to judge whether an authentic thought process led to it, instead of people merely adopting the ideas presented first by other people. In many cases this means people adopting ideas I put forth first, because I tend to be someone who puts a lot of stances/reads/theories into the game. Moreover, in the event my reads turn out incorrect, answers I get to those questions can prove valuable later when retroactive analysis is needed. It's a way of forcing players to take personal responsibility for the thoughts they express in the thread instead of hiding behind the more vocal player's contributions (often mine).

Fair enough. I am just the type who prefers discussion as opposed to just questioning.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is probably as good a time as any to lynch a Process element. I'll vote Operator.

[DFaraday]

I voted Operator because Snapshot seems to be giving potentially useful glimpses of outside players.

[dodo]

[DrumBeats]

Based on the sheer number of people Snapshot is "quoting" yet seems to have one cohesive voice, I find it highly unlikely that there are multiple people controlling them. I would bet that The Process was given all of these sock accounts to control, but has to abide by certain posting restrictions. Just my guess about how it works.

Mafia, please kill another one tonight. We can just take them out back and forth for a while.

[Epignosis]

Find the Camerata or The Process.

Poll ended at Sun May 29, 2016 9:02 pm

agleaminranks
0
No votes

Cell
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

DrumBeats
1
Snapshot (3)
6%

JaggedJimmyJay
1
thellama73 (9)
6%

kneel4justice
1
agleaminranks (14)
6%

Luna
0
No votes

MacDougall
0
No votes

MovingPictures07
2
Operator (11), nijuukyugou (13)
11%

nijuukyugou
0
No votes

Operator
6
DrumBeats (7), MovingPictures07 (8), kneel4justice (15), JaggedJimmyJay (16), DFaraday (17), Cell (18)
33%

Scotty
0
No votes

Snapshot
2
Luna (4), Man (10)
11%

thellama73
0
No votes

Fairview (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
5
Epignosis (1), leetic (2), juliets (5), Spacedaisy (6), nutella (12)
28%


Total votes : 18

[DFaraday]

Based on the sheer number of people Snapshot is "quoting" yet seems to have one cohesive voice, I find it highly unlikely that there are multiple people controlling them. I would bet that The Process was given all of these sock accounts to control, but has to abide by certain posting restrictions. Just my guess about how it works.

Mafia, please kill another one tonight. We can just take them out back and forth for a while.

That seems like an awful lot to hinge on one player, but I guess it's possible.

[Epignosis]

Day 5 Ends: Gold Leaf

That Operator didn't last long. I wonder what it was operating.

Operator has been lynched.

It is now Night 5. You have 23 hours to submit your PMs and vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

No immediate reveal of what Operator was, though we have the opportunity to research that tonight. I think it might be a better idea though to research something else, perhaps Snapshot, to enlighten any potential future lynches of these elements.

[DrumBeats]

I'm voting snapshot tonight. See what the fuss is about.

[MacDougall]

Yeah die you random thing

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Voting Snapshot.

[thellama73]

I'm back from the convention, guys! Did I miss anything good?

[Scotty]

I'm back from the convention, guys! Did I miss anything good?

No.

Hey guys, I'm back from the nearest star nebula! Did I miss anything good?

[Snapshot]

re//

I'm back from the convention, guys! Did I miss anything good?

No.

Hey guys, I'm back from the nearest star nebula! Did I miss anything good?

static response//

No.

Ello Guys! I'm still busy, but very excited to reply to everyone! Did I miss anything good?

[Scotty]

I see you all just fiddled around with the Process elements while I was away.

Why are we not hunting Mafia? Listen, it's their prerogative if they want to kill off rando elements, but I still want MP dead.

[Scotty]

I'm more inclined to see what we just lynched in Operator rather than anyone else at this time.

Voting Operator

[MacDougall]

I am with scotty. Down with homework.

[Tangrowth]

JJJ, nijuu, and Scotty, hopefully I can respond to your concerns thoroughly. I should have time tomorrow night after I get home from teaching if I don't get the time before then, and assuming I survive the Night (but I don't know why the mafia would kill me since I have suspicion). In response to your point, JJJ, about my inactivity following my increase in suspicion, it's purely coincidental, and my RL has just taken over my life to the point where I don't really have time for this game at the moment. I apologize to you all and the host, but it is what it is. Please let me know what specific questions you have that I can address.

I'll vote Snapshot.