MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[Tangrowth]

Anyone think LoRab would have tried to kill me after I called her one of my top two town reads?

Do you have any reason to believe LoRab would have done this over anyone else?

I don't think she did it. I'm asking her detractors.

Oh okay, that makes more sense. I was going to say, what caused the change in heart? Lol.

Lemme go dig up that ISO now.

[motel room]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

[motel room]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

I was watching that game, that's where I picked up looking out for it.

[Tangrowth]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

What's the logic behind that attitude / question coming from a more likely mafia than town mindset?

[Tangrowth]

This reminds me: I need to dig into INH's ISO. And probably some others too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

I was watching that game, that's where I picked up looking out for it.

He's also employing Why Me defenses (complaining that the case against him also applies to other people). This was another tell that I learned in that tournament.

Starting to feel it.

[Tangrowth]

I do think that INH's interactions with Elo looked worse than most. I could potentially get behind it, even if my gut is resisting hard.

[MacDougall]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

[Tangrowth]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

Convince me. I know you were BZZZZing around her earlier, but just tell me as concisely as possible why I should join you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

What's the logic behind that attitude / question coming from a more likely mafia than town mindset?

I'll explain my own circumstance from that game for context:

I spent pretty much the entire game under fire from one source, the player coolkid (eventual tournament champion). I fought him at every turn for days and days, never backing down, trying to stay poised under intense pressure. Eventually I dropped that bomb, not realizing it would be a mistake: what do you want from me, man?

It helped change my scenario from "JJJ under pressure" to "JJJ in the noose".

The argument they made against me, which was probably accurate, was that the question represents a sense of desperation wrought of the wrong mindset. They see a baddie who is fighting tooth and nail for every inch of breathing room in the thread, desperate to earn town reads. It was the symbolic cracking of the JJJ eggshell -- no longer was I showing an earnest interest in reading the motivations of my detractor, but instead I was revealing that what I really wanted most was for him to change his mind. That's more scum than town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

I will spend more than a third of a second considering your proposal if you talk about something else.

[Tangrowth]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

What's the logic behind that attitude / question coming from a more likely mafia than town mindset?

I'll explain my own circumstance from that game for context:

I spent pretty much the entire game under fire from one source, the player coolkid (eventual tournament champion). I fought him at every turn for days and days, never backing down, trying to stay poised under intense pressure. Eventually I dropped that bomb, not realizing it would be a mistake: what do you want from me, man?

It helped change my scenario from "JJJ under pressure" to "JJJ in the noose".

The argument they made against me, which was probably accurate, was that the question represents a sense of desperation wrought of the wrong mindset. They see a baddie who is fighting tooth and nail for every inch of breathing room in the thread, desperate to earn town reads. It was the symbolic cracking of the JJJ eggshell -- no longer was I showing an earnest interest in reading the motivations of my detractor, but instead I was revealing that what I really wanted most was for him to change his mind. That's more scum than town.

Oh, I see, that makes sense. I can see that argument.

[MacDougall]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

Convince me. I know you were BZZZZing around her earlier, but just tell me as concisely as possible why I should join you.

Zebra had a civ read of me. Well documented. We were buddies.

In light of Elo's flip, she made a 1 emoticon reply, which I found forced and in light of her position on the lynch I made a snap read of bad. That sort of half joking but not kind of read.

The next time she made a rainbow list I was dark orange. She says it's because the elo flip makes me look bad.

I proceeded to bzz her and she came out with a comment that indicated that "I am seeing what I want to see, as usual" which was an affront to my ability to play the game, which is fine, but importantly it indicates that she actually has a civ read of me, because if she had a real Mafia read of me, she'd be reading my activity as manipulative and nefarious rather than wrong.

[Dom]

Zebra is Mafia without doubt. 100% absolute bonafide guaranteed lock it down impossible to deny. Buddied me and was friendly when I was in agreeance, I make ONE post pointing out that I feel she is Mafia and now magically I am dark orange. Pfffft hide your colours better.

Face something substantial about her that isn't a BZZZ or face destruction.

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

You parked your vote on MP early on. Again.

Explain to me how that's sitting out.
I voted someone who I believed was baddie. I made multiple posts trying to convince others to vote with me.

I find curious that Dom hasn't responded to any of my posts that mention him...

You mean where you said I am more paranoid as a baddie? Ok. Cool. Where am I paranoid? Because I made a case against MP because I believed (and kind of still do, but see the limits of the reality here) that he was buddying me? How is that paranoid?

Or are you talking about this:

My other suspicions are more amorphous: the low posters because they don't give us anything to go on. I keep getting pings from Dom, but he has also said things that feel civ to me--but he's on my list of considerations.

Which is so unsubstantial I don't even know how you'd like me to respond.

This post is a shitstorm. You do the following things in it:
1) Make no direct accusation. Let others do that for you.
2) Imply malintent on my part by using relatively *neutral* words like curious, but pairing it with an ellipses.
3) Not even have anything really to respond to.

I more meant the first one, but that you didn't acknowledge either post was what struck me. And not so much about when you are more paranoid, but that you were/are being paranoid here. It is partly the buttering up thing. It also your general tone in responding to others. But also.... Can you state where MP was buttering you up?

And the purpose of my post where I mention you (which included many things other than you) wasn't meant to make a case against you, merely to explain why you are on my radar at all. Mainly because I was asked directly. If you read it as a whole, you'll probably even see that you're not the highest of my suspicions.

The purpose of the post where I say you haven't responded was simply to say that you hadn't responded. Not to make a direct accusation based on it, but to note it. And to get you to respond.

I always use words like curious. And as I have said about you, I'm really not sure. So neutral words are exactly that. I do find it odd that you didn't acknowledge my posts at all. I was not implying malintent.

It your tone of response demonstrates the paranoia mentioned earlier.

How? What am I paranoid about?
This is an empty accusation.

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

Can you spell out what you mean here?

I will add this - I love being lynched as a civ. Not because I like to lose, or because I want my team to lose. But because I love being right. But here's the dig - when I get lynched as a civ, the baddies are happy, and the civs who were wrong will still feel justified and say "well, she should have acted like a civ" and no one learns anything from the whole situation. But I am not a robot with pre-programmed responses as to how to "act like a civ" according to someone else. What I am is ass crack exhausted, I wanted to get my feet under me in this game to actually play it. That didn't happen. So now I'm in between a rock and a hard place. I'm too tired to fight to get out, and I'm too annoyed to care to push through the exhaustion and try.

T F is this paragraph?

I didn't expect INH to sweep the baddie reads. That's interesting. He has fallen from grace more than perhaps anyone else.

That's because he's bad.

Anyone think LoRab would have tried to kill me after I called her one of my top two town reads?

I don't know if LoRab WOULD have done it, but I wouldn't rule her out.


Nice post, G!


Mac-- justify your position on me. You criticize JJJ for turning on you so quick, but I've yet to see a reason why you turned on me the same amount.

[Tangrowth]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

Convince me. I know you were BZZZZing around her earlier, but just tell me as concisely as possible why I should join you.

Zebra had a civ read of me. Well documented. We were buddies.

In light of Elo's flip, she made a 1 emoticon reply, which I found forced and in light of her position on the lynch I made a snap read of bad. That sort of half joking but not kind of read.

The next time she made a rainbow list I was dark orange. She says it's because the elo flip makes me look bad.

I proceeded to bzz her and she came out with a comment that indicated that "I am seeing what I want to see, as usual" which was an affront to my ability to play the game, which is fine, but importantly it indicates that she actually has a civ read of me, because if she had a real Mafia read of me, she'd be reading my activity as manipulative and nefarious rather than wrong.

That (bolded/underlined) logic is compelling. I'd be curious to see her response to that interpretation.

[Tangrowth]

Hey Dom, just caught your post in linki. What do you think about that post of indi's you quoted -- with respect to her alignment? Does it influence your read at all in that way?

[Tangrowth]

OK, I'm leaving the thread for a bit until I get this ISO done because at this rate I'm not going to get it done tonight.

[Dom]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

Convince me. I know you were BZZZZing around her earlier, but just tell me as concisely as possible why I should join you.

Zebra had a civ read of me. Well documented. We were buddies.

In light of Elo's flip, she made a 1 emoticon reply, which I found forced and in light of her position on the lynch I made a snap read of bad. That sort of half joking but not kind of read.

The next time she made a rainbow list I was dark orange. She says it's because the elo flip makes me look bad.

I proceeded to bzz her and she came out with a comment that indicated that "I am seeing what I want to see, as usual" which was an affront to my ability to play the game, which is fine, but importantly it indicates that she actually has a civ read of me, because if she had a real Mafia read of me, she'd be reading my activity as manipulative and nefarious rather than wrong.

That (bolded/underlined) logic is compelling. I'd be curious to see her response to that interpretation.

Same.

Hey Dom, just caught your post in linki. What do you think about that post of indi's you quoted -- with respect to her alignment? Does it influence your read at all in that way?

It screams baddie to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

Can you spell out what you mean here?

Elohcin said she thought a baddie would be replaced before a townie by priority, which she used against Quin since he replaced in first.

I wonder if Elohcin thought to say this because indiglo was the actual baddie replacement and she came second -- against Eloh's expectations.

[MacDougall]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

I will spend more than a third of a second considering your proposal if you talk about something else.

Oh dear we have a confirmed Jimmy so he's decided he needs to talk down to me even more than usual. Feels great.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

I will spend more than a third of a second considering your proposal if you talk about something else.

Oh dear we have a confirmed Jimmy so he's decided he needs to talk down to me even more than usual. Feels great.

Meh. I think you made a fair point against Zebra just now. I await Zebra's response.

Scotty has taken over for sprityo. How do you feel about his re-entry so far?

[MacDougall]

Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

I will spend more than a third of a second considering your proposal if you talk about something else.

Oh dear we have a confirmed Jimmy so he's decided he needs to talk down to me even more than usual. Feels great.

Meh. I think you made a fair point against Zebra just now. I await Zebra's response.

Scotty has taken over for sprityo. How do you feel about his re-entry so far?

I dunno. He ain't done much.

[indiglo]

I can understand why she might look town at face value. Her frustration appears genuine. I have to decide which of these it is:

1. She's town, and she would rather catch up with the game than deal with accusations.

2. She's bad, and she feels like she's being caught for stupid reasons.

#2 is one of the best scumtells in the game of Mafia, so I won't discard it without a good reason.

Or #3 (the actual reason). She got tired of trying because 3J didn't listen to anything she said anyway, so decided her valuable time and energy would be better spent elsewhere.

I have other internet games I can play, after all.

[Tangrowth]

In request to the following post (forwards/summaries in italics, JJJ ISO bits in spoiler, then my responses in sarcastic orange):

You want me to still check out that ISO from before or is it moot?

You might as well if you have the time. Don't respond to everything though. If you want, pick out any three negative things I had to say and talk about them.

in reference to JJJ's two-part ISO on me from Day 3 (Part 1 Part 2)

Three negative things I picked...

1) JJJ observed various posts wherein I was trying to employ a more carefree approach in the very beginning of the game (mostly d1). This is his first such observation; in responding to it, I hope to respond to all of those observations as a whole (which take up most of Part 1 of the ISO) and explain my thought process, especially now that it's much later in the game.

Spoiler: show

Sorry to hear about your mom, Glorfindel. Wishing the best!

I'll hop on the MacDougall policy lynch. Why not?

MP placed the second vote on Mac in response to Rico's policy call. I think this is mildly suspicious, though perhaps not for the reason you'd expect. I don't think it's opportunistic, because I doubt MP intended to leave his vote here anyway. Rather, it looks like MP is making a concerted effort to appear like he is playing loose and doesn't care how he looks -- which would imply he is not playing loose. That wouldn't be ideal.

You're right that I was making a concerted effort to 'play loose'. Day 1s are particularly difficult for me, especially as town, because I historically suffer from severe analysis paralysis. I also get too emotionally tied to these games. I haven't played mafia in a while (since I had to replace out of Red vs Blue and my schedule has been busy), and when I have most of my most recent games I have been rolling mafia, which has been exhausting. I was relieved to receive my alignment because it allowed me the opportunity to take a different approach to hunting. A lot of my behavior during d1 was an attempt to actively revamp my style to some degree to increase my effectiveness and my enjoyment, comprising the combination of (1) trying to just not take things seriously to keep my blood pressure down and my enjoyment up, (2) reaction baiting (though not very effectively), and (3) trying to listen more to my gut but nonetheless not giving in too much to emotion, because I've found that my town game is pretty ineffective between trying to overanalyze everything and tunneling. Now that I type all of this out I think I realize that's what Dom was reading as inconsistent, and perhaps why he was perceiving that I was deliberately trying to play differently / control my outbursts. He can attest to that being an accurate interpretation or not. I'm not sure if this helps at all but I don't see the point in not being transparent about it anymore, even if I thought it was evident I was trying to play differently.

Unfortunately, as much as I tried though it just didn't feel natural and I kept slipping into my usual more rationally-driven playstyle, and I abandoned it after I didn't feel like it was working that much for me. I'm not sure how Metalmarsh does it.

2) I expressed a small beef with Jay on d1 with respect to his treatment of Scotty before Scotty's flip, as follows:

Spoiler: show

Dialogue between MP and I - On one hand I think MP was a little too easy on me. I didn't have to do much to melt away his concerns, and that makes me wonder how serious they were in the first place. On the other hand, I think his commentary about townies making sense/not making sense is valid and I can see at least a small glimmer of that mindset in his play.

While Jay's observation here is fair to some degree, I think it doesn't represent the full picture -- that I didn't immediately become satisfied. With Jay's first response to me expressing my beef, his tone was still coming across as too emotionless for my liking. It wasn't until Jay fully explained his train of thought in the quote he links above that I could see a town JJJ who still thoroughly considered what I felt was missing in my initial nitpicky observation. I believed his explanation, particularly the bit where he said:

[spoiler][quote="JaggedJimmyJay"]He was bad and I looked like an idiot. That kind of thing has actually happened to me a few times lately. I also wrongly read you in Romance of the Three Kingdoms on a purely emotional level. Perhaps my confidence in those types of reads is shaken. I felt inclined to put that stuff away in my own brain and focus on the concrete: was he answering the questions adequately or not.[/quote][/spoiler]
I asked myself if this sounded like town JJJ and I concluded that it did. The fact that Jay walked me through his exact thought process and opened up was what satisfied me.

3) As I was catching up on the thread at one point, I tried to engage Mac on why he wanted to lynch sprityo even though by the point in which I had caught up he expressed strong desires to lynch JJJ and Rico:

Spoiler: show

Mac, I'm confused. Why, when I just asked you whom you would like to lynch, you said sprityo, yet in this pile of stuff you do not mention him at all; rather, you read JJJ and Rico as bad? What am I missing?

This point doesn't work for me. I don't think it's confusing or suspicious for MacDougall to state a desire to lynch one person while also expressing suspicion of other people in a separate post. Context and circumstance dictate conversation.

I think Jay's point here would be fair if I had maintained this perspective after catching up on the thread, but I didn't. See this post. I don't have anything else to say here, just wanted to correct the record.

Sidenote: Jay, do you still think there would be value in examining my rainbows over time? You mentioned something about it at the end of Part 1 of your ISO.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Or #3 (the actual reason). She got tired of trying because 3J didn't listen to anything she said anyway, so decided her valuable time and energy would be better spent elsewhere.

I have other internet games I can play, after all.

I listened to everything you said. That doesn't mean my suspicion was supposed to evaporate into nothingness. I still had concerns and I expressed them.

You're not listening to anything I say. You haven't actually talked to me about the specific things I've said. You've reduced everything to "foolish nonsense" without telling me why it's foolish nonsense or accused me of being bad.

[Tangrowth]

Well, that's about it. If Jay or anyone else wants to engage me on this or anything else, please let me know. It'd be nice if I can engage anyone on any beefs or concerns they still have with me, while I'm still caught up on the thread. I'll be here off and on for probably the next hour or so max. I will be gone most if not all of tomorrow though, just because of this damn paper.

[MacDougall]

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

[Tangrowth]

I think I'm getting a bit paranoid or something; I'm drifting a bit more mafia on zebra, indi, and INH, at the least. And you folks have made some compelling observations so far. I feel obligated to update my rainbow again. I'd like to do some ISO digging but I don't have the time or motivation right now.

[Tangrowth]

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

Me or Jay?

[Tangrowth]

Rainbow #6

JaggedJimmyJay

Sloonei
Quin
MacDougall

LoRab

Dom
motel room

DrWilgy
indiglo
a2thezebra

Glorfindel
insertnamehere
sprityo

Next goal: Sort through these pinks and oranges.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks for the response MP. My immediate reaction is to like it. I'll think about it for a while.

Sidenote: Jay, do you still think there would be value in examining my rainbows over time? You mentioned something about it at the end of Part 1 of your ISO.

It's something I've paid off-hand attention to in the midst of larger analyses. I haven't noticed any meaningful discrepancies. The only note I made before that you could talk about further is your game-long hesitance to color anyone red. Is Elohcin still the only one so far?

[MacDougall]

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

Me or Jay?

Both

[JaggedJimmyJay]

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

Me or Jay?

Both

Being town helps.

I have a system though. The physical task of compiling the ISO analysis is easier than some might assume, just because of how I use my tabs, hotkeys, and key words.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac and MP -- you both appear to suspect Glorfindel still. Do you disagree with my logic here:

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

[motel room]

Mac and MP -- you both appear to suspect Glorfindel still. Do you disagree with my logic here:

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

How does that fit with this wording when Epi changed his vote last second (I don't know if it does, these are just two things)

And, why did you change to sanmateo or whatever. Has he/she even posted yet?

The "or whatever" seems fake.

[MacDougall]

Mac and MP -- you both appear to suspect Glorfindel still. Do you disagree with my logic here:

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

I figure she was just thinking about Glofindel while writing another name.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And, why did you change to sanmateo or whatever. Has he/she even posted yet?

The "or whatever" seems fake.

I entertained the same thought briefly. It'd have to mean Quin is bad though which would be the biggest surprise flip there could be for me.

[motel room]

And, why did you change to sanmateo or whatever. Has he/she even posted yet?

The "or whatever" seems fake.

I entertained the same thought briefly. It'd have to mean Quin is bad though which would be the biggest surprise flip there could be for me.

Maybe, or it could mean she was very aware of what she was writing no matter how glib it sounds.

[motel room]

Mac and MP -- you both appear to suspect Glorfindel still. Do you disagree with my logic here:

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

I figure she was just thinking about Glofindel while writing another name.

This probably makes more sense though

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I pretty much greened Glorfindel for that one thing, so it's something I'm continuing to think about. He still hasn't done much.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for the response MP. My immediate reaction is to like it. I'll think about it for a while.

Sidenote: Jay, do you still think there would be value in examining my rainbows over time? You mentioned something about it at the end of Part 1 of your ISO.

It's something I've paid off-hand attention to in the midst of larger analyses. I haven't noticed any meaningful discrepancies. The only note I made before that you could talk about further is your game-long hesitance to color anyone red. Is Elohcin still the only one so far?

Good deal, let me know if you want to talk about it at any point.

Oh, shoot, my bad, you have asked me this before and I totally forgot about it. Yeah, Elohcin has been my only red. I have been really hesitant to color anyone red unless I feel like I am seeing little to no town-compatible behavior in their ISO. Despite consistently mafia reading Glorfindel and sprityo I haven't felt it proper to move either of them down to red because I don't feel confident enough. Part of the problem is that I don't feel I have directly engaged either of them enough and I don't feel they have had any consistently alarming pings like Elo had. I am just trying to avoid committing to strong mafia reads because tunneling used to be an issue for me. That's why I feel like I need to sort through my pinks and oranges ASAP. I'm having trouble feeling strongly about any of these folks, as though I'm not assessing them deeply enough, if that makes sense.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's a good thing Wilgy is confirmed bad. Makes the lynch decision today easy.

[Tangrowth]

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

Me or Jay?

Both

Being town helps.

I have a system though. The physical task of compiling the ISO analysis is easier than some might assume, just because of how I use my tabs, hotkeys, and key words.

I'm certain you're more efficient at it than I am, but I have gotten quicker at it over time.

[motel room]

Quin is still ok I think - post-Day 1 Elo pretty much only replied to JJJ, Sloonei, LoRab and Quin and they all seemed battle-worthy.

[Tangrowth]

Mac and MP -- you both appear to suspect Glorfindel still. Do you disagree with my logic here:

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

It's an intriguing observation. I don't disagree with it necessarily, I think I'm just not sure what to do with it. I'm having trouble putting stock in it because, even though I agree that occam's razor suggests Elo didn't fabricate it, she was mafia-aligned. So I'm inclined to ignore it, but who knows, maybe you've uncovered something worthwhile. I haven't really factored it into my read of Glorfindel to be honest.

[Tangrowth]

It's a good thing Wilgy is confirmed bad. Makes the lynch decision today easy.

?!?!!?!?!

[Dom]

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

Can you spell out what you mean here?

Elohcin said she thought a baddie would be replaced before a townie by priority, which she used against Quin since he replaced in first.

I wonder if Elohcin thought to say this because indiglo was the actual baddie replacement and she came second -- against Eloh's expectations.

Ah.

Lynch Indi/INH.

I can understand why she might look town at face value. Her frustration appears genuine. I have to decide which of these it is:

1. She's town, and she would rather catch up with the game than deal with accusations.

2. She's bad, and she feels like she's being caught for stupid reasons.

#2 is one of the best scumtells in the game of Mafia, so I won't discard it without a good reason.

Or #3 (the actual reason). She got tired of trying because 3J didn't listen to anything she said anyway, so decided her valuable time and energy would be better spent elsewhere.

I have other internet games I can play, after all.

"Lynch me, I don't really care!"

So.... who do you think we should lynch?

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

This.

HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

Me or Jay?

Both.

[Dom]

It's a good thing Wilgy is confirmed bad. Makes the lynch decision today easy.

?!?!!?!?!

tbh

[Tangrowth]

Dom, who else is on your radar other than indi and INH at this time?

Also, what was it specifically that caused you to re-examine your read of me; was it just the Elo flip specifically or something else? Is there anything else you want me to talk about?