GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[triceratopzeuhl]

Sig: rico was brought over from progarchives (not a mafia website) a few years ago by MP, same as me, epignosis, BWT, and A Person

Golden targeted by mafia twice in 3 nights, seems they didn't like what he's been saying. Recent noteworthy posts from Golden:

Spoiler: show

A PERSON
BWT
BOOMSLANG
DOM

Slight bad
Moderate town
Slight town
Slight bad

EPIGNOSIS
GOLDEN
JJJ
LORAB

Moderate town
My sweetest friend
Moderate town
Slight bad

MARMOT
MP
NINJA
SCOTTY

Moderate bad
Moderate town
Strong town
Slight town

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

Moderate bad
Slight town
Strong town
Moderate town

Also quick note before I go one of the top posters (JJJ, Sloonie, Golden, and MP) is most likely bad, I just have no clue which one it is. :P

Ok those who are not me, I would say that MP is least likely, sloonei is most likely. Jay in the middle.

This Fellow [JJJ -ed] is Not a Civilian

I did not like his reasons for being against the Marmot vote. He broke the tie, and it amounted to him claiming that MP and I only suspected him because he suspected us, which was chronologically inaccurate. It was almost like a brush aside.

I could see a Marmot/Jay team. Heck, I could see a Marmot/Jay/Dom team.

Or maybe Marmot is an innocent bystander.

In any event, epi, I agree about Jay. He worries me. I feel like there is a lack of fire in his opinions. His whole game feels - clockwork, like a man calculating the impact of each post. I can't describe it any other way. He's always bothered me a little but in this lynch it felt much stronger than just tinfoil.

And Dom ignores what is obviously a very split lynch and throws away his vote.

Yeah, I'm never a fan of that.

I could see him being NK'd once as a possible misdirect kill, but both mafia and SK trying to kill him implies they were uncomfortable with his reads

Also as per my earlier theory, if one of the insanifiers is civ then that player at least thinks JJJ is bad. I wonder if the role also has an info-getting element? As me and MP have both said this game, civ insanifier use could be reckless if you end up removing teammates' ability to communicate

[triceratopzeuhl]

biggest change in Golden's theories over the course of day 3 was JJJ from Moderate Town & less likely than sloonei to be bad, to worried about JJJ

[Epignosis]

Yes

YUH

No.

YB

I note that Golden was killed by both the SK and Sleep. Sleep being one of them is curious, since the original killing mafioso is Moya. Sleep inherits the kill if Moya dies. This would seem to be an indicator that Moya is dead, which raises questions: who among the corpses could it have been? Only Vompatti has an unrevealed role, so if he's Moya that means the SK had a Night 1 kill.

YUH

If that's the case, perhaps the SK is activated by some manner of day phase mechanism (i.e. receiving a vote or something similar).

The only other explanation I can think of would be a seemer among the lynched townies, something which would seem to be discounted by the lack of a "[secrets]" attached to the Moya role. Otherwise perhaps there's an explanation in the [secrets] of the Sleep role.

YB

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Why are we criticizing the approach Epi is taking to the game when MP initially took the very same approach?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not criticizing Epi for playing POE. I think POE can be a very effective method. My concern with Epi is that his conduct late in lynches and immediately after lynches don't look entirely sincere: he is doing just little enough to ensure lynches don't change, and then casting suspicion upon those who voted in those lynches. I am unconvinced he has a sincere desire to move the lynches off of the people he has defended, because if he did truly want that -- he'd be providing names to move those votes to. Epignosis knows how to influence vote movement, I've seen him do it many times. This kind of half effort is not representative of that.

YB

[triceratopzeuhl]

Good or Helpful = Lynching Civilians and Threatening to Vote Another One for Not Being Good or Helpful

see he even admits it

.....?
?!!?!

Imagine reading this and thinking it was a serious post

[triceratopzeuhl]

I'm putting a vote on Scotty.

What is your reason for this?

[triceratopzeuhl]

The other game has ended so I'm putting more focus here.

Not surprised to find JJJ, who I called bad with my 1st post of the game, as voting for me. I assume it's because I haven't been around to answer. Or he's just bad. Can't tell yet.

Are you caught up now? Any insights to share from day 3 and night 3?

[triceratopzeuhl]

I'm putting a vote on Scotty.

What is your reason for this?

Is it that he hasn't answered this post?

I'm going to restate my primary Scotty beefs for Scotty himself whenever he is available.

Spoiler: show

~ Scotty's efforts to communicate with Golden and facilitate his involvement in the continuing dialogue was a decent look. I was able to work with the methods they employed myself, though perhaps with less clarity. I appreciate that he provided Golden with a forum to convey his reads when at the time I believe he was not in Golden's good graces. I do have some lingering concern though primarily centered in one post:

I don't really have time to do a full catch up, just enough to see that (I assume) inh was good.

I don't much like the epi votes. Except maybe trice's one.

I also really don't like scotty basically being like 'told you guys'. Calling your shot on someone being civilian is the easiest thing to do in the world since a) most people are and b) all baddies have an even higher percentage shot of being right (in this case 15/16); but

c) bragging about it afterwards is the equivalent of discrediting a load of people, even when at least half of them are town, and d) not only does it discredit, but it also puts the focus squarely on 'who voted for a civilian to die' instead of 'who is bad' which are not necessarily the same thing.

I'll be all for looking to see if any inh votes are uninspired. But when I last looked, there were four and all of them felt fair and well explained in the thread to me.

What??! How is "well there ya go" in any way "I told you guys"? How is that bragging about it? Show me where I bragged about you all being wrong.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth and manipulating this away from you and the other INH voters so you don't have to take responsibility for your votes. Yes, civs make the wrong votes all the time. Of course they do. But I already feel like you, JJJ, Sloonei and Mp have all come after me on day 1 for bullsuit reasons and I find it manipulative. Couple that with the fact that I don't trust you guys, makes me think at least 1 or a couple of you might be bad. Just because I haven't had a tennis match where I've spewed 5028 posts in the matter of 24 hours doesn't mean I can't make reads off of votes.

I didn't know INH was gonna flip good, but I definitely didn't think he would flip bad. So get off your high horse, golden.

Love, Scotty

Yellow: hyperbolic/exaggerated language looks insincere at face value.

Orange: this is an accusation, and it implies to me that Scotty is suspicious of Golden now for two reasons: contributing to the INH lynch, and "manipulating the conversation away from INH voters". This is something Scotty didn't follow up on, and that makes me question the motive for cramming it into this response in the first place. I think the suspicion inherent in this language is pretty clear, and that he didn't proceed with it (indeed he became Golden's communicative aid in Day 2) raises doubts that it was honest. The alternative explanation is less ideal: that he turned Golden's accusation against him as a defense mechanism with intent to discredit his accuser.

I would also assert the orange bit and the second yellow bit go together awkwardly. If Golden is on a "high horse", that would imply he is overconfident about a read, not falsifying a read. The difference is important, as it relates directly to alignment.

Green: this just has its own discrediting power given its vaguely critical language.

Scotty, please talk about those things.

Spoiler: show

I could also consider voting for Scotty.

I'm way behind everyone. Like 12 pages behind. Looks like no one died?

Will Do my best to catch up.

I'm still not caught up. 5 or so more pages to read.. I see JJJ has a little case breakdown that I skimmed. Eventually I'll get around to answering it.

I never said my vote was forced. LoRab decided that. I have calmed my jets on a few people I had recently suspected. I'm actually feeling better about Golden, and Mp. I think BWT is still suspicious? Why? I forgot. But he said some stuff some some time ago that was phrased in a weird way that perked uo ym ears like Pluto. Sloon is on neutral ground. Slight mafia still on JJJ. I don't think he was faking his curse, I just think his curser was just unimaginative.

I'm way behind. Long day, may not get around to this until tomorrow at the earliest. Blech my mafia time where did it go???

To fall behind sometimes is understandable. Life happens. However, I don't get the impression Scotty has much urgency to involve himself in this game even as he makes the attempt to catch up. He has given us a live-track of his status (12 pages behind, 5 pages behind), but in the process of that catchup his productivity has been scarce. I would think a town Scotty would be grabbing quotes as he reads along and sharing some kind of thoughts instead of this sort of one-off neutral commentary on what he needs to do and a few half-reads.

[triceratopzeuhl]

BWT, boomslang, lorab, nijuukyugou all haven't checked in day 4 yet, there might not be any silence target though

If Sleep kills, he cannot use his regular power during the same Night

if somebody IS silenced, it probably means some power or role secret faked the cause of death somehow. If all 4 of them post something today then moya should be confirmed dead (either vomps or a "seemer" role as discussed above)

[sig]

sloonie! Are you the serial killer?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is it that he hasn't answered this post?

That post details my current grievances. There are a number of ways they could be addressed or alleviated including an answer.

[Epignosis]

Sloonei confirmed for civilian.

are votes changeable?

didn't you read the rules?

Over 1000 posts before Day 2. Way to go, team.

Would you believe me if I told you I wouldn't mind the mafia and/or serial killer killing all the high posters so the rest of us can keep up?

YFDHOWVIFWV

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It looks like Epignosis is working on the theory that Vompatti was Moya, and is looking for connections -- revealing an inordinate focus on Sloonei in his posts. Epi please confirm or deny in your code.

Another thing that occurs to me now: Vompatti being bad and killed Night 1 could be attributed to the Motherfucker = Redeemer role. Each odd night, one in that pair checks a living player. If the living player is mafia there's a 50% chance it'll kill that mafioso.

[Marmot]

It looks like Epignosis is working on the theory that Vompatti was Moya, and is looking for connections -- revealing an inordinate focus on Sloonei in his posts. Epi please confirm or deny in your code.

Another thing that occurs to me now: Vompatti being bad and killed Night 1 could be attributed to the Motherfucker = Redeemer role. Each odd night, one in that pair checks a living player. If the living player is mafia there's a 50% chance it'll kill that mafioso.

YOU'LL MEET THE SAME FATE AS YOUR WOMBAT FRIEND, MARMOT-SLAYER!!!

[Epignosis]

It looks like Epignosis is working on the theory that Vompatti was Moya, and is looking for connections -- revealing an inordinate focus on Sloonei in his posts. Epi please confirm or deny in your code.

YUH

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Epi's course of investigation is a good one. I'm going to dump all of the Vompatti-related content from other players in one place since there doesn't figure to be a ton of it.

Spoiler: show

birdwithteeth11

Prove it!

Can anybody ever actually tell if vomps is good or bad? He's a spambot

I've given up on looking for tells for him. I think for him, it's more about vote history that you have to look at.

And even then, I usually end up flipping a coin.

Would you believe me if I told you all the INH voters are bad?

I would not k.

What makes you think that?

Why else would they have voted for a civilian?

In hindsight, I still think he was the best choice for a Day 1 vote. Nobody else convinced me otherwise, but Scotty came close for me.

Boomslang

Hey Boomslang, have my vote. Convince me you're town. What are your current reads and why? They don't have to be anything substantial by any means.

Yes, please hold me to a higher standard of proof than literally anyone else in the game, including people (cough, AP) with exactly one no-content post. Sigh. But I know you won't change the vote unless I respond, so here goes.

Current reads:
Golden - Town. Casual enough in the defense of my poke on him, good prodding of JJJ, sticking his neck out early with the hot takes.
Sloonei - Town. Strong reads, logic I agree with about JJJ, seems to be having fun.
Dom - Town. There are some inconsistencies in his post style, mostly capitalization, that suggest he's not overanalyzing his stuff, and I don't think he'd be so... short tempered, perhaps, if he were overly concerned about drawing votes.
BWT - Bad. Weird contradictions in multiple posts, including defending contradictions with more contradictions.
JJJ - Bad. I agree with Sloonei's case.
Vomps - Bad. I flipped a coin and it came up tails.

Hey Boomslang, have my vote. Convince me you're town. What are your current reads and why? They don't have to be anything substantial by any means.

Yes, please hold me to a higher standard of proof than literally anyone else in the game, including people (cough, AP) with exactly one no-content post. Sigh. But I know you won't change the vote unless I respond, so here goes.

This is rather ironically a blatant example of appeasement, something you accused me of earlier in this thread.

BWT - Bad. Weird contradictions in multiple posts, including defending contradictions with more contradictions.
JJJ - Bad. I agree with Sloonei's case.
Vomps - Bad. I flipped a coin and it came up tails.

What are the contradictions you're referring to regarding BWT? What about Sloonei's suspicion of me do you agree with? What is the point of including Vompatti in this post?

Point taken, but I didn't really have much of a choice. Either I respond to MP and get accused of appeasement, or I ignore him and keep the vote. You're being opportunistic with a situation I had no part in creating.

Regarding the second quote:
BWT's contradictions are the wording bits. See some of Scotty's posts where he highlights relevant content.
Sloonei's points on the way you qualified your earlier posts, doing a bit of backpeddling, are the foundation of the read.
Vomps is there for the lulz.

To MP: see above for several of your points. Leaning town on Scotty because he agrees with me on BWT. Didn't list you because you just have so friggin' much to evaluate, and I wanted to get some reads out quickly. Laying out a bajillion posts has a smokescreen effect, whether you want it to or not.

Dom -- no direct mention

Epignosis -- no direct mention

LoRab -- no direct mention

Metalmarsh89 -- no direct mention

MovingPictures07

Sup Vomps?

So Vomps, are you going to vote for me this game?

I'll spare you for now.

Cool, I can dig it.

Gray in the first rainbow / second rainbow / third rainbow

Power-Over-Ethernet
Point of Entry
Peace On Earth

I like the first one the best.

Jay, can you give me a rainbow? I'd like a rainbow.

How about gun to heads? That'd be more useful to me right now.

A Person -- bad
BWT -- good
Boomslang -- bad
Dom -- good
DrWilgy -- good
Epignosis -- good
Golden -- good
INH -- good
LoRab -- bad
MM -- good
MP -- good
ninja -- good
Scotty -- bad
sig -- bad
Sloonei -- good
timmer -- good
Trice -- good
Vomps -- good

This is cool, thanks. Let's chat.

Talk to me about the good reads for DrWilgy, Epignosis, Metalmarsh, Blooper, and Vompatti.

Talk to me about the bad reads for... well, all of them, except Boomslang and Scotty maybe since you've already talked about them to some degree.

I'm not looking for essays here because I know it's tough to judge some of these folks right now; I just want to pick your brain.

Light orange in 5th rainbow / 6th rainbow / 7th rainbow

Alright, I'm here.

Very weak? This isn't even my final form!

I have to admit this gave me a laugh.

Hey Sloonei, what's on your mind, bro?

What did you think of my rainbow? Any major disagreements?

No major disagreements, but it's also too early in the game for me to call anything "major". Vompatti was the biggest question mark I had, but he seems to be the personification of a question mark, so I won't ask about him.

Fair enough. And yeah, that's pretty much Vompatti. The question mark-shaped wombat.

Okay there's more here than I expected, I'll continue in a separate post so the spoiler isn't gargantuan.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Vomps mentions continued...

Spoiler: show

nijuukyugou -- no direct mention

Scotty -- no direct mention

sig -- no direct mention

Sloonei

Sloonei confirmed for civilian.

I thought so too.

timmer

Going back to MP, if he didn't have the ol' POE shield to hide behind, I'd consider him my top suspicion. But, I find everything about the POE strategy suspicious and wrong, so my entire barometer's completely out of whack. I'm not exactly sure who elected him king of the thread, I must have missed that Day 0 poll, but he's sure acting like it what with the demands that people meet his standards of play and constant announcements about his own personal POE rankings which are mostly irrelevant to anyone that doesn't actively suspect him due to the fact that NOBODY ELSE IS USING POE IN THIS GAME. That, plus THE LARGE AMOUNT OF SECRETS AND CHICANERY INVOLVED IN THIS GAME MAKE POE STUPID EVEN BY POE STANDARDS. but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Hmm, so I was worried that this might happen. The constant chatter and extreme post count devoted to poe seemed destined to annoy someone, and here we apparently go.

First thing... I don't think anyone has declared MP to be king of the thread. In fact, I've yet to see a single person "follow" him, other than to follow him into discussing other players. Which is how we catch bad guys. Right? So what MP has done, and the others discussing reads in what seems like an early part of the game to do it, is create CONTENT.

I mean, how many Day 1's have we all had the misery of sitting through where everyone is just staring at the wall and then it comes time to vote and everyone goes... "iono... maybs Vomp cuz reasonz?"

This is the most active Day 1 I've ever seen. Why the annoyance, INH?

To end this... all anyone has to do to "counter" MP... is to join him in...wait for it... discussing players. Which is mafia.

I REALLY hope MP doesn't get lynched for daring to bloody well discuss players on a Day 1.

triceratopzeuhl

Can anybody ever actually tell if vomps is good or bad? He's a spambot

Note: the mentions I have included for all names is limited to mentions prior to Vomps dying. Given that we didn't encounter a reason to suspect Vompatti might have been scum until now there's probably also value in looking at Vompatti-relevant discussion after his death; I might look into that later after football festivities are over.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Vompatti's own posts are true to his typical way, so it's difficult to derive much analysis from it. Some posts of interest apart from those Epignosis already highlighted:

Spoiler: show

Voted for timmer for dissing low posters.

Would you believe me if I told you all the INH voters are bad?

Would you believe me if I told you all the INH voters are bad?

I would not k.

What makes you think that?

Why else would they have voted for a civilian?

Analyzing Vompatti content feels inherently absurd. I'm willing to make a couple assertions: that little groan at timmer is a decent little look for timmer. His gripe at the INH voters is more difficult to work with since it encompasses 5 living players. I'd be willing to guess though that the wagon had a low baddie presence if any. I'm not sure even Vompatti would promote a crappy thread atmosphere for multiple team mates if that wagon included multiple team mates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A few other thoughts emerging from that pile of posts:

birdwithteeth -- I liked his brief exchange with Vompatti regarding the INH wagon. BWT himself didn't even vote in that wagon, so he had little reason to resist Vomps' gripe if it wasn't truly his opinion.

MP -- He was pretty chummy with Vompatti on multiple occasions. I don't know if that means anything, but it's an observation. I'll read MP based upon other content.

Sloonei -- He got more direct attention than others from Vomps himself, and received his support despite being a "high poster" -- a group Vomps otherwise disparaged. It worth note and I think is a reason to look more thoroughly into Sloonei since I haven't done that anyway. I'll make that a task for this day.

trice -- He wasn't as hard on Vompatti for perceived irrelevant content as he was on others (Epi and A Person). He called him a spambot and left it at that. That's not ideal.

The people who didn't mention Vompatti while he was alive -- I'm not inclined to read into this. Generally speaking, there's not much to say about him given the way he plays. He's just a presence.

~~~

Note: it's important to state that all of this analytic content hinges upon the notion that Vompatti was Moya. I don't consider this a confirmed truth, but it is a compelling enough possibility to warrant investigation. If anyone has a good reason to oppose this theory, speak up

[triceratopzeuhl]

trice -- He wasn't as hard on Vompatti for perceived irrelevant content as he was on others (Epi and A Person). He called him a spambot and left it at that. That's not ideal.

That's because that's how vompatti has always been on every website as long as I can remember

knowing now that rico is putting cause of death in host posts instead of just ?????????? for night kills, and that Sleep NK'd golden instead of Moya, it seems rather likely that vomps actually was Moya. I think if we determine that nobody is silenced today it would confirm it

[triceratopzeuhl]

BWT, boomslang, lorab, nijuukyugou all haven't checked in day 4 yet, there might not be any silence target though

these people pls post tia

[triceratopzeuhl]

Sig: rico was brought over from progarchives (not a mafia website) a few years ago by MP, same as me, epignosis, BWT, and A Person

Golden targeted by mafia twice in 3 nights, seems they didn't like what he's been saying.

This Fellow [JJJ -ed] is Not a Civilian

I did not like his reasons for being against the Marmot vote. He broke the tie, and it amounted to him claiming that MP and I only suspected him because he suspected us, which was chronologically inaccurate. It was almost like a brush aside.

I could see a Marmot/Jay team. Heck, I could see a Marmot/Jay/Dom team.

Or maybe Marmot is an innocent bystander.

In any event, epi, I agree about Jay. He worries me. I feel like there is a lack of fire in his opinions. His whole game feels - clockwork, like a man calculating the impact of each post. I can't describe it any other way. He's always bothered me a little but in this lynch it felt much stronger than just tinfoil.

I could see him being NK'd once as a possible misdirect kill, but both mafia and SK trying to kill him implies they were uncomfortable with his reads

Also as per my earlier theory, if one of the insanifiers is civ then that player at least thinks JJJ is bad. I wonder if the role also has an info-getting element? As me and MP have both said this game, civ insanifier use could be reckless if you end up removing teammates' ability to communicate

biggest change in Golden's theories over the course of day 3 was JJJ from Moderate Town & less likely than sloonei to be bad, to worried about JJJ

As much as I was enjoying the slugfest with epignosis, which I will surely resume when he's un-insanified, I would like to know what others think about this as it's the direction I'm looking most right now

[triceratopzeuhl]

trice -- He wasn't as hard on Vompatti for perceived irrelevant content as he was on others (Epi and A Person). He called him a spambot and left it at that. That's not ideal.

The people who didn't mention Vompatti while he was alive -- I'm not inclined to read into this. Generally speaking, there's not much to say about him given the way he plays. He's just a presence.

unironically posting these two lines one after another - you admit there's nothing to say about how vompatti plays but think it's suspicious that I didn't have anything to say about how he plays

[JaggedJimmyJay]

trice -- He wasn't as hard on Vompatti for perceived irrelevant content as he was on others (Epi and A Person). He called him a spambot and left it at that. That's not ideal.

The people who didn't mention Vompatti while he was alive -- I'm not inclined to read into this. Generally speaking, there's not much to say about him given the way he plays. He's just a presence.

unironically posting these two lines one after another - you admit there's nothing to say about how vompatti plays but think it's suspicious that I didn't have anything to say about how he plays

I have no idea what your experience playing with Vompatti is. That logic applies to people I know are familiar with his nonsense. How often have you played with him?

[triceratopzeuhl]

every mafia game I've ever played iirc

[triceratopzeuhl]

and even if I hadn't, you assume every other person is familiar with his play but me, very disingenuous

[JaggedJimmyJay]

every mafia game I've ever played iirc

Okay, then it's more understandable that you'd say little about him.

and even if I hadn't, you assume every other person is familiar with his play but me, very disingenuous

I have played many games with everyone on this roster except you on this website where the Vompatti legend is well-known. I've never played with you. I don't know who you are or where you've played. No I didn't make the assumption that you know anything about Vompatti.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So N1 Vomp died, we see nothing from him
N2 no death
N3 Golden being killed by Sleep and the SK

So one theory is that the SK was the target N2 and being targeted for Nightkilling activated his power
Mafia/SK missed the kill N2
Kill was blocked

N1 is tricky we have no data on who killed Vomp or his role, so he could in theory have been Moya killed by the SK, I find this to be unlikely.


A Person
Wilgy
INH

are all dead, there is no secret near Moya, however Mladic is one big secret. If we think there was shenanigans I'd bet it was caused by him. Here is the issue though we have no proof whatsoever unless one of these three roles flip again to know if there is a seemer like role. I do think we can gather that we're one mafia down, but who it is we have no clue.

sig, could you clarify why you believe it's unlikely Vompatti was Moya?

[Marmot]

wtf

My true love's death came swift and unexpected. Her reaction was brief, but the effects everlasting. We can't all see and expect the coming of death. But unlike this wombat, she was innocent.

[Dom]

Why are we criticizing the approach Epi is taking to the game when MP initially took the very same approach?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not criticizing Epi for playing POE. I think POE can be a very effective method. My concern with Epi is that his conduct late in lynches and immediately after lynches don't look entirely sincere: he is doing just little enough to ensure lynches don't change, and then casting suspicion upon those who voted in those lynches. I am unconvinced he has a sincere desire to move the lynches off of the people he has defended, because if he did truly want that -- he'd be providing names to move those votes to. Epignosis knows how to influence vote movement, I've seen him do it many times. This kind of half effort is not representative of that.

I think Epig has done an excellent job of illuminating the flaws in POE.

Good or Helpful = Lynching Civilians and Threatening to Vote Another One for Not Being Good or Helpful

see he even admits it

.....?
?!!?!

Imagine reading this and thinking it was a serious post

imagine making that post and then you ignore the other point i made because you were hoping to deligitimize me by making fun of me.
just like when you called epig stupid.

[sig]

So N1 Vomp died, we see nothing from him
N2 no death
N3 Golden being killed by Sleep and the SK

So one theory is that the SK was the target N2 and being targeted for Nightkilling activated his power
Mafia/SK missed the kill N2
Kill was blocked

N1 is tricky we have no data on who killed Vomp or his role, so he could in theory have been Moya killed by the SK, I find this to be unlikely.


A Person
Wilgy
INH

are all dead, there is no secret near Moya, however Mladic is one big secret. If we think there was shenanigans I'd bet it was caused by him. Here is the issue though we have no proof whatsoever unless one of these three roles flip again to know if there is a seemer like role. I do think we can gather that we're one mafia down, but who it is we have no clue.

sig, could you clarify why you believe it's unlikely Vompatti was Moya?

I forgot the civvie power that can potential kill and thought it was highly unlikely that Vomp was killed by the Serial killer night 1, who also was able to hit a mafia member. The odds seemed very small. However, if it was the civ role it would explain why the kill wasn't published and it would make sense for a civ to check him for his approval of killing highposters. However, it is still slightly unlikely.

[Dom]

what does slightly unlikely mean?

[sig]

what does slightly unlikely mean?

It's unlikely but just slightly.

[Dom]

Where does this assessment come from?

[triceratopzeuhl]

Why are we criticizing the approach Epi is taking to the game when MP initially took the very same approach?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not criticizing Epi for playing POE. I think POE can be a very effective method. My concern with Epi is that his conduct late in lynches and immediately after lynches don't look entirely sincere: he is doing just little enough to ensure lynches don't change, and then casting suspicion upon those who voted in those lynches. I am unconvinced he has a sincere desire to move the lynches off of the people he has defended, because if he did truly want that -- he'd be providing names to move those votes to. Epignosis knows how to influence vote movement, I've seen him do it many times. This kind of half effort is not representative of that.

I think Epig has done an excellent job of illuminating the flaws in POE.

Good or Helpful = Lynching Civilians and Threatening to Vote Another One for Not Being Good or Helpful

see he even admits it

.....?
?!!?!

Imagine reading this and thinking it was a serious post

imagine making that post and then you ignore the other point i made because you were hoping to deligitimize me by making fun of me.
just like when you called epig stupid.

There was no point in your post earlier, just lazy snark. I also never did such a thing, I said he was making stupid posts. Not remotely the same. Is epignosis your teammate or something?

[triceratopzeuhl]

Dom posting the same way I'm criticizing JJJ and epignosis for - deliberately misleading when not outright lies in their accusations. Wouldn't be surprised if all three are bad, civvies can and do play honest the way virtually everybody else has been

[Epignosis]

Dom posting the same way I'm criticizing JJJ and epignosis for - deliberately misleading when not outright lies in their accusations. Wouldn't be surprised if all three are bad, civvies can and do play honest the way virtually everybody else has been

YWQENFNGGIVBCNFFSXYKB

[triceratopzeuhl]

Crooked Epignosis thinks he can keep throwing whoppers after a civvie insanified him, sad!

[triceratopzeuhl]

Sig: rico was brought over from progarchives (not a mafia website) a few years ago by MP, same as me, epignosis, BWT, and A Person

Golden targeted by mafia twice in 3 nights, seems they didn't like what he's been saying.

This Fellow [JJJ -ed] is Not a Civilian

I did not like his reasons for being against the Marmot vote. He broke the tie, and it amounted to him claiming that MP and I only suspected him because he suspected us, which was chronologically inaccurate. It was almost like a brush aside.

I could see a Marmot/Jay team. Heck, I could see a Marmot/Jay/Dom team.

Or maybe Marmot is an innocent bystander.

In any event, epi, I agree about Jay. He worries me. I feel like there is a lack of fire in his opinions. His whole game feels - clockwork, like a man calculating the impact of each post. I can't describe it any other way. He's always bothered me a little but in this lynch it felt much stronger than just tinfoil.

I could see him being NK'd once as a possible misdirect kill, but both mafia and SK trying to kill him implies they were uncomfortable with his reads

Also as per my earlier theory, if one of the insanifiers is civ then that player at least thinks JJJ is bad. I wonder if the role also has an info-getting element? As me and MP have both said this game, civ insanifier use could be reckless if you end up removing teammates' ability to communicate

biggest change in Golden's theories over the course of day 3 was JJJ from Moderate Town & less likely than sloonei to be bad, to worried about JJJ

JJJ why do you refuse to comment on this?

[triceratopzeuhl]

Some players view this differently so it's not the sole point I'm considering, but I do think baddies are more obsessed with answering every accusation than townies are in general. I have gotten into trouble as a bad guy myself for this before.

oh here's why, it's because he thinks that's how you pretend to be good

[LoRab]

Slovenly Asshats. Dammit.

[triceratopzeuhl]

BWT, boomslang, lorab, nijuukyugou all haven't checked in day 4 yet, there might not be any silence target though

one off the list, thank you lorab

[LoRab]

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

And if people keep accusing me, what exactly do you expect me to do?

Also, you seem to ignore that I actually said new things in my last post.

Some players view this differently so it's not the sole point I'm considering, but I do think baddies are more obsessed with answering every accusation than townies are in general. I have gotten into trouble as a bad guy myself for this before.

The new things you said were about a dead player.

I'm going to leave our dialogue here for now. Do with your time whatever you feel is best.

Strategy and Druthers necessitate Endless stylistic singularity

[LoRab]

Sig and Dom? Need extra study. Shaky.

[LoRab]

I'm putting a vote on Scotty.

Scotty? Adequetly dubious.

[LoRab]

Why are we criticizing the approach Epi is taking to the game when MP initially took the very same approach?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not criticizing Epi for playing POE. I think POE can be a very effective method. My concern with Epi is that his conduct late in lynches and immediately after lynches don't look entirely sincere: he is doing just little enough to ensure lynches don't change, and then casting suspicion upon those who voted in those lynches. I am unconvinced he has a sincere desire to move the lynches off of the people he has defended, because if he did truly want that -- he'd be providing names to move those votes to. Epignosis knows how to influence vote movement, I've seen him do it many times. This kind of half effort is not representative of that.

Seeing a different nuanced Epi. Sans suspicion.

[LoRab]

Sleepy and dreary. Now eyeballs shutting. shhhhhhhh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ why do you refuse to comment on this?

I've focused my time on trying to find bad guys because that is the priority task in a game where every lynch has been off (and a brand new piece of evidence has appeared). I didn't kill Golden. It's kind of lame that both anti-townies did since he died so early in Monkey Island. Nonetheless there are a number of reasons Golden might be targeted: he's an effective and effortful civilian, he's difficult to lynch, he voices his suspicions loudly (providing avenues for both protective and misleading kills), etc. He did voice suspicion of me and he was wrong. That's something others will have to judge on their own. I have plenty of content to assess.

You've provided one theory about Golden being killed. Why else do you think that may have happened?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dom posting the same way I'm criticizing JJJ and epignosis for - deliberately misleading when not outright lies in their accusations. Wouldn't be surprised if all three are bad, civvies can and do play honest the way virtually everybody else has been

"lies"

I don't know your alignment. I'm trying to figure it out. That's why I put up that eight page dissertation on your posts yesterday. You didn't question my honesty then, when I concluded you look more civilian than not. You may not like every accusation hurled at you, but you're treating all of them in this broadly negative light as though there can be no genuine intentions. That's bunk.

[birdwithteeth11]

Meh. Although I still say he wasn't playing a civ role in a particularly helpful way to the civ cause, so I'm not particularly bothered by the result as non mafia lynches go.

I mean, I get this sentiment, but that's still 1 less civ we have on our side this game. At one point in my mafia career, I would have agreed with this. Now I do not.

[birdwithteeth11]

I'll admit that I have no suspicions that are particularly strong, though. I feel like I have a lot more town reads than I do baddie reads.

Generally agreed. Even without a concerted effort to employ POE, I find myself doing it by accident. The suspicions I have voiced lately are my most substantive, but I don't boast the confidence in those reads I would like for a Day 3. Even still the town reads aren't extremely confident; I get the impression that reads are more likely to gravitate toward the gray center in a survival-oriented game. That mindset permeates the thread in a tangible way. I have only played in a couple like this though.

This Fellow is Not a Civilian

How so? Because I read that as someone's playstyle.

Unless you are implying that he is intentionally playing "by the numbers" for him. Because I would agree there. I just don't know yet if that makes his play so far manufactured or not.