Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[Sloonei]

Talk about why you voted for him instead of her.

I understand the questions and prompts. They're irrelevant, but I don't expect you to understand that. I encourage you to hunt to your heart's desire elsewhere and to continue thinking it all over, and if you still care about this later in the night phase you feel free to bring it right back up.

I'm ready to lynch you tomorrow. Are you prepared?

Hmmm?

Don't hmm me. Spit it out.

It's self-evident. There's not much more to it than "I notice you were the only player to end up voting alongside the now confirmed bad guy."
Care to comment?

Link



I was as clairvoyant about my vote as I could be.

200 posts were made in the 20 hours before I made that post. More than that number were made in the final 4 hours of the day phase. Clearly a lot more happened when I wasn't around.

Also the fact that my vote happened to sit next to a flipped mafia member is coincidental. And to add what I said above, I was not around to move my vote (which I would have given the tie), so I don't think the placement is meaningful at all.

This is all fair, I just wanted to see how you'd respond. Do what you must to make your Marmot contributions.

[Marmot]

I will end you and Jay. :3

[Sloonei]

I wouldn't be totally shocked if this lynch ended up in a tie between two baddies. FZ is the only person on the LC wagon I don't have a solid reason to feel good about, but I also lack a solid reason to feel bad about her and her vote was cast long before any of the last minute drama could be foreseen.

[MacDougall]

Nicely done fam.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will end you and Jay. :3

So many others have said in Mafia games past. They're dead now.

[Marmot]

I will end you and Jay. :3

So many others have said in Mafia games past. They're dead now.

You're probably the most suspicious person in the world because you moved from Europe to Ohio.

[Sloonei]

Anyway it's done

https://screencast.com/t/mOEFHqlSOri

LoRab/Kyle is listed as a "possible" pairing. Care to elaborate?

[Sloonei]

I could vote for:
Speedchuck
FZ

*Simpson's boy playing with a Ouija board*

I liked LC's case on Speedchuck and Epi's case on FZ, respectively. I think both showed behavior that might be displayed by mafia ready to take advantage of Jay's thing and, later your thing, to push a mislynch while staying out of the splash zone themselves.

Kyle cites speedchuck as a suspect for the exact same reason as LoRab.

[nutella]

Hell yeah.

[FZ.]

Ooh, great result!!
I still think LC is bad and the fact that he voted Lorab does nothing for me. I hope it doesn't sway other people from him. He voted Lorab to save himself. She wasn't even saying much, so from a baddie's point of view, it's better to lose her than him, and look good in the process.

I'll catch up more when I get home.

[MacDougall]

Anyway it's done

https://screencast.com/t/mOEFHqlSOri

LoRab/Kyle is listed as a "possible" pairing. Care to elaborate?

Tomorrow I will try to find it

[nutella]

OK it's 3am and I weirdly can't sleep so here's some late-night stream-of-consciousness speculatioficationings.

Not Lorab's Teammates
nutella
Epignosis
Dyslexicon
MacDougall
Sloonei

Neutral
FZ.
DrWilgy
novaselinenever
Kylemii

Maybe Lorab's Teammates
speedchuck
Long Con
Marmot
Spacedaisy

Totally Lorab's Teammate
JaggedJimmyJay



....idk, I'm not very good at this kind of thing, I might be making some weird assumptions, so don't read too much into all of these but this is where I'm at. Probably Mac will do some more in-depth interaction analysis. But at this point I want to lynch Jay next. Or maybe Spacedaisy as I'm seeing more reasons she could be bad (more on this later in this post)

Perhaps LC is in fact bad and the tie was win-win, but that would open up some juicy cans of bussing speculation and is heavily tied into whether Jay is bad and all sorts of wifomy things. I guess what I'm wondering is where lorab's teammates would have voted in each scenario

Scenario A: LC is civ. The mafia would have tried to at least get the tie, but if they could have saved Lorab why wouldn't they? (Well, obviously because they'd look bad when LC flipped because even though that wouldn't confirm lorab was bad it would look like a save) But would they leave it up to the rabbi? I don't know what to read into Kyle's and Spacedaisy's deliberate votes outside the tie at EOD. If one team member, perhaps Jay, had voted for LC, would the other one vote elsewhere, maybe in hopes that Lorab herself would come back and vote for LC out of more excusable self-preservation? Whereas, if Jay were town, LC would have been an easy wagon for lorab's teamies to latch onto. Of course there is also the possibility one or both (though both seems highly unlikely) of lorab's teammates could also have been inactive or absent for EOD and missed their chance to save her.

Scenario B: LC is bad. Maybe the mafia actually went for the tie because they didn't want to choose which teammate to sacrifice. Lorab's vote stayed on Epi, outside of the tie. LC voted for Lorab. In this scenario that leaves one more team member; in the sub-scenario that Jay is this team member, they're evenly split on the tie, but Jay deliberately pushed the LC wagon so that would have to have come from a mastermind-level wifom scheming motivation. Lorab-LC-Jay as the team seems pretty unlikely. So if not Jay, would the third teammate be someone who voted for LC, or again someone like Kyle or Spacedaisy who voted outside the tie, or again there's also a significant possibility that it was one of the handful of players who were not present close to EOD and did not affect the results at all.


Ugh Jay is so tied up in everything. So much hinges on his alignment and motivations and all of it is wifom. Maybe I'm reading too much into it due to bias though....

This is pretty tinfoily tbh but let me put it out there. So, what I gathered was that Dizzy was affected with a curse (by a role on the mafia team) that possibly entailed a forced vote for Jay. Jay himself was the first to vocalize the idea that that was what was happening, and Dizzy appeared to confirm it via quote. If I am to hold onto my tinfoil hat and believe Jay is on the mafia team, I must believe that Jay would enact that curse, wait for it to become relevant, and then be the one to "figure it out" in thread. There is decent FEB-level mafia motivation for that, of course; if it becomes public knowledge that the baddie team cursed someone to vote for Jay, the reasonable assumption is that Jay isn't on that baddie team, because vote numbers are precious things for mafia and it's risky to give him a vote if he had a decent chance of getting some votes (which I believe that he would believe he would, going into that day)... but if he was confident enough that he would at least not be the highest vote-getter (which I believe that he would believe he would going into that day), it's a wifom gambit worth making and I can see it coming from a player of his caliber.

I must sound crazy, lol. Probably the simplest explanation is that Jay is town. But I have a hunch about him that I can't shake.

Anyway, this all relates back to Spacedaisy. Actually the Dizzy thing relates to Spacedaisy independently of Jay's alignment, I guess. So maybe I'd rather lynch Spacedaisy first since my reasoning is a bit more straightforward and less tinfoily. This post:

I am super confused about whatever is going on with Dizzy right now... uh... sim is running behind and I'm trying to do both at once, it's not going well for my brain. Let me try and look back over this stuff.

sounds exactly like what someone would say who knew that Dizzy had been cursed and while catching up saw that it had become a main topic of discussion and felt the need to comment on it. Yeah, regardless of Jay's position in this, this post really makes me think Spacedaisy is on the team that cursed Dizzy and is therefore bad. It isn't much, could have been her genuine reaction of not knowing what was going on, but it sounds fake to me.

[Dyslexicon]

Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?

[Dyslexicon]

Aight. Let me get into this.

Again, sorry again for lagging behind. I will try catching up on everything I've missed and give my thoughts on it.

[Dyslexicon]

Except it's called reiterate and not iriterate... Sorry, Epi =p

[Marmot]

Irreversible!

[Sloonei]

Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying we should stop ppaying mafia?

[Sloonei]

The fact that the tie went through is a slight point against LC. Ties in this game are decided by a town player. That's a big advantage for us, and if the scum team could have prevented it fron happening to save one of their own, I expect that they would have.

[Kylemii]

Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying we should stop ppaying mafia?

I think he's talking about role related stuff, like guessing about people's curses or whatever. I think it's a culture thing. Where I come from speculation is always free game and it's on the cursed to be less obvious about it.

[Kylemii]

I only skimmed a lot of what happened last night. I plan to read through the last 3 hours again, seems like a good place to start regardless.

[Dyslexicon]

Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying we should stop ppaying mafia?

*biggest sigh in history*

I'm talking about something specific like "why would this specific player, for example myself, act in this specific odd way? Oh wait I have a theory about this that involves stuff from the setup!" - let's not talk about that thing. Let's just draw alignment conclusions from it and skip the open speculation about what possibly could have happened. It's like playing with an elephant in the room and not talk about the elephant, just what the elephant means or does. At least try to get it, and remember it for the future.

[Dyslexicon]

I think he's talking about role related stuff, like guessing about people's curses or whatever. I think it's a culture thing. Where I come from speculation is always free game and it's on the cursed to be less obvious about it.

It's not a culture thing.

[Sloonei]

Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying we should stop ppaying mafia?

*biggest sigh in history*

I'm talking about something specific like "why would this specific player, for example myself, act in this specific odd way? Oh wait I have a theory about this that involves stuff from the setup!" - let's not talk about that thing. Let's just draw alignment conclusions from it and skip the open speculation about what possibly could have happened. It's like playing with an elephant in the room and not talk about the elephant, just what the elephant means or does. At least try to get it, and remember it for the future.

But speculating about things like this is speculating about a player's alignment.

That said, I don't know what you are referring to at all and this conversation is unlikely to go anywhere. Tell me about your reads.

[Dyslexicon]

Also, good job with the Lorab lynch. I endorsed that, although I was persuing JJJ's lynch because his case on Epi was bad. I might keep doing that btw. It's good that she flipped scum, but it's unlucky that she was the random soldier cause I think it would be 590% more helpful to get rid of one of the others.

I've seen stuff about Daisy revived being discussed. She'll be one of the players that will interest me while reading. Currently catching up. Mac and Epi continues to look town. Nut also looks great again, I'm only caught of guard that her overall playstyle seems to have become more confident and sassy from what I remember (but I do think that's a style thing).

I would like people's opinion on NVN. "Hi, I'm reading this game but I don't intend to engage with it". - ???????????

[Dyslexicon]

@Sloonei - I'm pretty sure someone else can help you with getting it. Reads will come when I'm done catching up on the thousand pages.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei - I'm pretty sure someone else can help you with getting it. Reads will come when I'm done catching up on the thousand pages.

I urge you not to catch up on the thousand pages if it will be too time consuming.

[Kylemii]

I think he's talking about role related stuff, like guessing about people's curses or whatever. I think it's a culture thing. Where I come from speculation is always free game and it's on the cursed to be less obvious about it.

It's not a culture thing.

It seems like a culture thing though?? Am I misunderstanding what you're talking about? someone mentioned the idea that your vote might have been forced I assumed that was the topic of your admonishment

[Dyslexicon]

I urge you not to catch up on the thousand pages if it will be too time consuming.

Well, I really like to read whole games and know what I'm talking about. I don't like missing context. (Although, ironically, I've done slightly better with reads the few times I've been forced to skim and make reads based more on sweeping intuition than details). A lot of discussion seems to be focused on active players going at each other. I have strong reads on a few of those, and I will skim any discussion that is repetitive or that just doesn't interest me. Middle posters and so called "low hanging fruits" is where I've felt scum is most likely at this game, and I will have a critical eye on all of that. I also need to understand wtf happened to Speed. I have time to read today as I'm not working.

[Dyslexicon]

It seems like a culture thing though?? Am I misunderstanding what you're talking about? someone mentioned the idea that your vote might have been forced I assumed that was the topic of your admonishment

It's not a culture thing. In my "culture" everyone, including me, would be all over this thing you are mentioning. So it's not that.

Maybe JJJ or Nut will be able to help me. I'm not wanting to be difficult. This game is difficult to play for me right now.

[Sloonei]

I urge you not to catch up on the thousand pages if it will be too time consuming.

Well, I really like to read whole games and know what I'm talking about. I don't like missing context. (Although, ironically, I've done slightly better with reads the few times I've been forced to skim and make reads based more on sweeping intuition than details). A lot of discussion seems to be focused on active players going at each other. I have strong reads on a few of those, and I will skim any discussion that is repetitive or that just doesn't interest me. Middle posters and so called "low hanging fruits" is where I've felt scum is most likely at this game, and I will have a critical eye on all of that. I also need to understand wtf happened to Speed. I have time to read today as I'm not working.

If you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

[Dyslexicon]

If you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

Um. Are you caught up with everything now? I think you will find your answer to that question in the discussion going on.

[Sloonei]

If you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

Um. Are you caught up with everything now? I think you will find your answer to that question in the discussion going on.

I am having difficulties understanding you.

[Dyslexicon]

If you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

Actually, whatever. Do you think I'm scum with Lorab?

[Dyslexicon]

I am having difficulties understanding you.

Then read other people's posts discussing me. Nut's and JJJ's for example. You didn't answer me - are you caught up?

[Sloonei]

I am having difficulties understanding you.

Then read other people's posts discussing me. Nut's and JJJ's for example. You didn't answer me - are you caught up?

I have not read everything, but I know what's going on right now.

[Sloonei]

If you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

Actually, whatever. Do you think I'm scum with Lorab?

It's possible.

[Dyslexicon]

The more volatile the dialogue, the less willing Dizzy is to take a stance.

Feel like commenting on this, more out of self examination: I think it's accurate to say "the more volatile the dialogue, the more urgent I feel it is to have a stance on it although I'm still as unsure as before". Does that make sense?

[Dyslexicon]

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

[Sloonei]

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

Give a read on me.

[Sloonei]

The more volatile the dialogue, the less willing Dizzy is to take a stance.

Feel like commenting on this, more out of self examination: I think it's accurate to say "the more volatile the dialogue, the more urgent I feel it is to have a stance on it although I'm still as unsure as before". Does that make sense?

Why?

[Marmot]

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

Let's end him.

[Dyslexicon]

Give a read on me.

I will. =)

[Sloonei]

Give a read on me.

I will. =)

When?

[Sloonei]

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

Let's end him.

Have you gotten a feel for what's going on yet?

[Marmot]

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

Let's end him.

Have you gotten a feel for what's going on yet?

This is a mafia game.

People die.

Civilians win.

I think I've gotten a grasp for it.

[Sloonei]

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

Let's end him.

Have you gotten a feel for what's going on yet?

This is a mafia game.

People die.

Civilians win.

I think I've gotten a grasp for it.

which people are the civilians in this one?

[Kylemii]

ok yeah I think I understand the dizzy thing

[Kylemii]

If Lorab is bad, she has a teammate in jeopardy. If she truly suspects me, why not put me further into the running to die?

Epi, can you plz expand on this? I'm still on my rewind, plz forgive me if you already have

[Sloonei]

If Lorab is bad, she has a teammate in jeopardy. If she truly suspects me, why not put me further into the running to die?

Epi, can you plz expand on this? I'm still on my rewind, plz forgive me if you already have

LoRab was holding off on voting for a very long time yesterday despite proclaiming Epi has her top suspect every time she posted. I believe the theory behind Epi's post is that she didn't want to commit a vote to a player if it wasn't likely to help save her teammate.

[Kylemii]

If Lorab is bad, she has a teammate in jeopardy. If she truly suspects me, why not put me further into the running to die?

Epi, can you plz expand on this? I'm still on my rewind, plz forgive me if you already have

LoRab was holding off on voting for a very long time yesterday despite proclaiming Epi has her top suspect every time she posted. I believe the theory behind Epi's post is that she didn't want to commit a vote to a player if it wasn't likely to help save her teammate.

Who was on the poll at that time? was lorab one of the vote-havers?