Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Marmot]

I don't think Elohcin has any choice but to be a baddie right now.

[Elohcin]

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

This makes me think DDL is bad, actually. (He is somewhat right about Epi's game play. But, I think Epi enjoys playing civ too.) I think DDL is taking advantage of Epi's playstyle in order to lynch a civ.

linki...GOLDEN was my number two suspect and I voted him. You just said a couple posts up that I didn't have my eye on Golden and then voted for him. So for you and for whoever say my vote for golden was weird...

[Tangrowth]

I don't think Elohcin has any choice but to be a baddie right now.

Yeah, not sure why I'm even talking to her. I'ma quit now. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Elohcin, i wasn't vague at all. I explained in detail why i didn't like your vote. I can't reference the post on my phone, but it shouldn't be hard for you to find. Your name is underlined in it.

[Epignosis]

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

You are not.

[Epignosis]

My view on Epi:

He spent the entire day phase picking on me and MP. On me because of my posting style, and on MP because of his response times. He later admitted that he was only messing up with MP, and implied that it was the same thing with me (when he said that he wouldn't miss a chance to mess with new players).

Not the case. My suspicion of you was genuine. However, I was satisfied with the response I waited so patiently to hear.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

My view on Epi:

He spent the entire day phase picking on me and MP. On me because of my posting style, and on MP because of his response times. He later admitted that he was only messing up with MP, and implied that it was the same thing with me (when he said that he wouldn't miss a chance to mess with new players).

Not the case. My suspicion of you was genuine. However, I was satisfied with the response I waited so patiently to hear.

Well that makes you a little better in my eyes, then. One of the reasons I was finding it strange is that you hadn't bothered to reply to that post before.

I still think your pursue of MP was a giant waste of time for everyone involved. Did you intend to accomplish anything with that, or was it just for the lulz?

MP, think about it. DO you think I would agree with Epi in the thread about you if I were Mafia with him? No way. I would steer clear of that.

This reeks of WIFOM. Why can't two mafia players agree about anything, ever? Specially when it's a small thing (a suspicion of a player that doesn't even end up becoming a vote)?

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

This makes me think DDL is bad, actually. (He is somewhat right about Epi's game play. But, I think Epi enjoys playing civ too.) I think DDL is taking advantage of Epi's playstyle in order to lynch a civ.

linki...GOLDEN was my number two suspect and I voted him. You just said a couple posts up that I didn't have my eye on Golden and then voted for him. So for you and for whoever say my vote for golden was weird...

I don't think we should lynch him now (though day 2 might change that). Policy lynches when in face of better targets are just stupid. I think he is a dangerous players and that we should figure him out soon. For instance, if the cop is reading this, I'd say he should investigate Epi asap (though this game doesn't allow cop reveals so the usefulness of that is limited). But leaving him alive for the rest of the game while still not being sure of his alignment sounds risky.

[Epignosis]

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

You are a Ph.D candidate in accounting and it would seem you have no concept of what "100%" is.

Go read me in Clue. Or Super Meat Boy*, since you hosted that. Would you say my play in either of those was "scummy?" If so, then your comment, "This is 100% accurate" is nonsense.

*For anyone who actually looks this up, I was cursed phase 1 to sing.

But I say there is no such thing as "playing like a townie." Throwing people off guard through deceit and manipulation is every bit a strategy for a civilian, especially when the Mafia usually try to "look civvie." My approach places people in uncomfortable positions, and in those uncomfortable positions, some truth leaks out.

There is no prescriptivist civilian play. And I'll maintain this position until I die (in real life).

[Epignosis]

Question for the crowd who believes there is such a thing as "townie play" and "baddie play:" Is deciding that someone's lynch during the Night phase a foregone conclusion on Night 1 a civilian play or a Mafia play?

Saying this:

Look, I've already said this, and so have several other players. Either you aren't reading the thread or you're desperately trying to save yourself from a certain lynch. The latter is incredibly likely.

If you need me to tell you what you did, then clearly there's something wrong.

You're mafia precisely because of how you have acted throughout the entire game.

Before any kill has happened, and before any Day 2 discussion has occurred, MP says this.

Statements like this and all the 100% silliness on Day 2 are very unlike MP in any scenario. He usually qualifies the hell out of his posts. I am scratching my head, because him seriously thinking he's pegged two out of four Mafia on Night 1 makes him look like an arrogant fool.

Now- and this is me talking- I don't mind arrogance and I don't mind some foolishness. But it's an art.

The underlined is an empty dilemma. I can attest that Elohcin is not neglecting the thread, so, according to MP, the only possibility is that she is "desperately trying to save yourself from a certain lynch." Well...who says her lynch is certain? Does no one outside of three or four people have a voice in her fate? That's incredibly presumptuous.

And if she does turn out bad, MP has already decided that I'm next. So here we have someone who can't read me OR Elohcin for shit deciding on the basis of Day 1 that we are "100%" "certain" teammates.

MP, think about it. DO you think I would agree with Epi in the thread about you if I were Mafia with him? No way. I would steer clear of that.

WIFOM

You're bad. I'm 100% sure. Absolutely.

Arrogant foolishness.

Doesn't suit you MP.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright, before the night phase ends, imma drop those just in case I die.

I wrote a read on Bass right before the phase end. My view barely changed, so I'm not doing it again (screw rainbow lists). His vote was as meaningless as it could be so that's no data to add. Here is it for those who didn't see it.

bass: another player who talked a lot about MP (if MP is town, then I swear there must be a fabricated wagon on him because a lot of people are ONLY talking about him). Seems to be going back and forth between suspecting MP, then saying he isn't suspecting anyone. Seems afraid to show commitment. That's pretty scummy imo.

The main point he is likely mafia and town should interrogate the fuck out of him this day. NEXT.

My other suspect is Elo.

She is easily the fluffiest player in the game. That itself isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is that she gives me the impression that she uses the fluff to avoid saying something useful. Like, every time she starts making a read on someone, a wall of fluff comes right after and we end up with a post that has one barely useful line and 20 lines of fluff. A good example is this post:

this might be called a slight backtrack. he doesn't understand TH's methods but grants some degree of validity to the assertion that he is off-meta in this game. i wouldn't know either way about his meta. this is a very minor ping if a ping at all though.

Off-perception of my meta. I don't think the idea that I'm off-meta is accurate, but I can at least understand that people find the games when I'm loudest most memorable, and I don't think genuinely perceiving me that way is unusual.

I'm glad to see TH is here. I want him to respond to some of the points I've made.

I know I have only played one game with you, but I think you are acting more reserved this game for sure. And, I do like TH's case on you so far.

it's important i think that MP has ranked DDL as his #1 town read (more than once). he hasn't just defended DDL blankly with very vague comments like Bass and others did. he made a bold Day 1 assertion that the thread's Public Enemy #1 was his biggest town read. and those of you who criticized MP for raising the possibility of a WIFOM gambit re: G-Man, i ask this:

what does a mafia MP07 gain from taking this strong town stance on DDL throughout this phase? it's an important distinction -- vague or soft defenses are legitimately suspicious, but MP's hasn't been that at all. one might assert that he is protecting a mafia team mate, but then the theory immediately becomes more far-fetched (because two players are being called mafia together before either of them has flipped). if someone feels MP OR DDL is mafia, then that player must grant that a mafia MP would then be making every effort to prevent the lynch of a townie on Day 1. and that would be definitive WIFOM.

Maybe the "new MP" is the kind of player that unreservedly defends his partners on day 1 instead of throwing them under the bus on day 1 like he used to

I have seen Epi catch people on timing issues/RL lies before. I have seen players lie to me about RL issues and lie to the thread about RL issues. IN BTSC in other games, I have been encouraged to lie about RL issues in order to make myself appear more civ. I do think that is wrong. Unlike Epi, I will bring up RL. I can't separate it so easily. I love my family, my kids, and I want to share them with whoever will care to listen. BUT, I will not lie about them or my RL issues in order to appear more civ. Okay...off my soap box. So I do think Epi could be on to something. And b/c of that, maybe I was onto something too with MP's cheerful attitude. Maybe he was very excited to be a baddie in his first game back on the syndicate

I want to vote either DDL or MP at this juncture.

However, I would like to know

what the other players are thinking about these two.

I think you shanked MP.

I actually think he could be bad, but I'm not going to vote for him after that. I think I'll likely vote for you, your attitude reminds me a lot of the way you took to Blindfaeth in keeler.

RL stuff should be off limits as far as gameplay goes.

I don't understand. You think MP is bad but won't vote for him because Epi called him a liar?

And then that last quote there. I think I would be okay voting Golden or MP today.

Most of this site's regulars have been, unfortunately, blending together for me so far, though I'm starting to get better at distinguishing y'all individually. I'm sure you're all having the same trouble with us newbies. It's hard to learn new names and personalities while also trying to decide which of those are honest or not. BUT right now I think my top suspects are Bass_the_Clever, Elohcin, and Golden (roughly in that order), but nothing feels too firm at the moment.

You say this, but you give no reasons as to why you think I could be bad. I understand how you can be having a hard time distinguishing between those of us that are new to you, but I think it is telling that you are only eyeing those of us that are new to you. What I am saying is.....I think you are jumping the gun. I think you are eyeing us just b/c you don't know. I encourage you to take your time and read more of what I have to say before throwing my name into the mix just b/c you don't know me. FWIW, this does not make me eye you.

This happens to be the first post where she voices some kind of suspicion against Golden. Now good luck trying to find the main point of it. She says something about how Golden is being more reserved than usual. Then she talks about MP and Epi. Then she fluffs. Then she quotes a post of Black Rock about Golden, implies she is about to say something about it, but doesn't. And just says she might vote Golden or MP.

The next time she mentions Golden is here:

Anyway....all this to say that MP's emotional crazies don't help him look better. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for today so he can calm down and I can be a better judge of his alignment tomorrow. I will vote Golden today. I feel kind of bad doing so b/c I voted him early in the last game I played with him and he was my "mafia" husband I needed to find and gain BTSC with. And I think he would have been a very cool BTSC partner. I hate it b/c if I knew I had until the end of night to submit a name, I would have picked him as he was suspicious of me, but instead I picked another and got played the whole game. Oh how different that game could have been Golden if only I knew I had to the end of the night period. I blame Epi for not being clear

"imma vote Golden. btw here's a wall of fluff telling how bad I'm feeling about voting Golden. Pay no attention to the fact I'm not even bothering to explain why I'm voting Golden."

Then she votes Golden as the 5th person in the bandwagon, and that's it. We are yet to find out why the fuck she did it.

So as a whole, it feels like her posts lack some kind of direction. They are a bunch of disconnected thoughts lumped together, occasionally with some read on someone that lacks any justification or development, followed by a shitload of fluff. It doesn't feel like she is having any trains of thought in this game. Which would be a mafia sign, since mafia wants to fake trains of thought.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Alright, before the night phase ends, imma drop those just in case I die.

I wrote a read on Bass right before the phase end. My view barely changed, so I'm not doing it again (screw rainbow lists). His vote was as meaningless as it could be so that's no data to add. Here is it for those who didn't see it.

bass: another player who talked a lot about MP (if MP is town, then I swear there must be a fabricated wagon on him because a lot of people are ONLY talking about him). Seems to be going back and forth between suspecting MP, then saying he isn't suspecting anyone. Seems afraid to show commitment. That's pretty scummy imo.

The main point he is likely mafia and town should interrogate the fuck out of him this day. NEXT.

My other suspect is Elo.

She is easily the fluffiest player in the game. That itself isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is that she gives me the impression that she uses the fluff to avoid saying something useful. Like, every time she starts making a read on someone, a wall of fluff comes right after and we end up with a post that has one barely useful line and 20 lines of fluff. A good example is this post:

this might be called a slight backtrack. he doesn't understand TH's methods but grants some degree of validity to the assertion that he is off-meta in this game. i wouldn't know either way about his meta. this is a very minor ping if a ping at all though.

Off-perception of my meta. I don't think the idea that I'm off-meta is accurate, but I can at least understand that people find the games when I'm loudest most memorable, and I don't think genuinely perceiving me that way is unusual.

I'm glad to see TH is here. I want him to respond to some of the points I've made.

I know I have only played one game with you, but I think you are acting more reserved this game for sure. And, I do like TH's case on you so far.

it's important i think that MP has ranked DDL as his #1 town read (more than once). he hasn't just defended DDL blankly with very vague comments like Bass and others did. he made a bold Day 1 assertion that the thread's Public Enemy #1 was his biggest town read. and those of you who criticized MP for raising the possibility of a WIFOM gambit re: G-Man, i ask this:

what does a mafia MP07 gain from taking this strong town stance on DDL throughout this phase? it's an important distinction -- vague or soft defenses are legitimately suspicious, but MP's hasn't been that at all. one might assert that he is protecting a mafia team mate, but then the theory immediately becomes more far-fetched (because two players are being called mafia together before either of them has flipped). if someone feels MP OR DDL is mafia, then that player must grant that a mafia MP would then be making every effort to prevent the lynch of a townie on Day 1. and that would be definitive WIFOM.

Maybe the "new MP" is the kind of player that unreservedly defends his partners on day 1 instead of throwing them under the bus on day 1 like he used to

I have seen Epi catch people on timing issues/RL lies before. I have seen players lie to me about RL issues and lie to the thread about RL issues. IN BTSC in other games, I have been encouraged to lie about RL issues in order to make myself appear more civ. I do think that is wrong. Unlike Epi, I will bring up RL. I can't separate it so easily. I love my family, my kids, and I want to share them with whoever will care to listen. BUT, I will not lie about them or my RL issues in order to appear more civ. Okay...off my soap box. So I do think Epi could be on to something. And b/c of that, maybe I was onto something too with MP's cheerful attitude. Maybe he was very excited to be a baddie in his first game back on the syndicate

I want to vote either DDL or MP at this juncture.

However, I would like to know

what the other players are thinking about these two.

I think you shanked MP.

I actually think he could be bad, but I'm not going to vote for him after that. I think I'll likely vote for you, your attitude reminds me a lot of the way you took to Blindfaeth in keeler.

RL stuff should be off limits as far as gameplay goes.

I don't understand. You think MP is bad but won't vote for him because Epi called him a liar?

And then that last quote there. I think I would be okay voting Golden or MP today.

Most of this site's regulars have been, unfortunately, blending together for me so far, though I'm starting to get better at distinguishing y'all individually. I'm sure you're all having the same trouble with us newbies. It's hard to learn new names and personalities while also trying to decide which of those are honest or not. BUT right now I think my top suspects are Bass_the_Clever, Elohcin, and Golden (roughly in that order), but nothing feels too firm at the moment.

You say this, but you give no reasons as to why you think I could be bad. I understand how you can be having a hard time distinguishing between those of us that are new to you, but I think it is telling that you are only eyeing those of us that are new to you. What I am saying is.....I think you are jumping the gun. I think you are eyeing us just b/c you don't know. I encourage you to take your time and read more of what I have to say before throwing my name into the mix just b/c you don't know me. FWIW, this does not make me eye you.

This happens to be the first post where she voices some kind of suspicion against Golden. Now good luck trying to find the main point of it. She says something about how Golden is being more reserved than usual. Then she talks about MP and Epi. Then she fluffs. Then she quotes a post of Black Rock about Golden, implies she is about to say something about it, but doesn't. And just says she might vote Golden or MP.

The next time she mentions Golden is here:

Anyway....all this to say that MP's emotional crazies don't help him look better. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for today so he can calm down and I can be a better judge of his alignment tomorrow. I will vote Golden today. I feel kind of bad doing so b/c I voted him early in the last game I played with him and he was my "mafia" husband I needed to find and gain BTSC with. And I think he would have been a very cool BTSC partner. I hate it b/c if I knew I had until the end of night to submit a name, I would have picked him as he was suspicious of me, but instead I picked another and got played the whole game. Oh how different that game could have been Golden if only I knew I had to the end of the night period. I blame Epi for not being clear

"imma vote Golden. btw here's a wall of fluff telling how bad I'm feeling about voting Golden. Pay no attention to the fact I'm not even bothering to explain why I'm voting Golden."

Then she votes Golden as the 5th person in the bandwagon, and that's it. We are yet to find out why the fuck she did it.

So as a whole, it feels like her posts lack some kind of direction. They are a bunch of disconnected thoughts lumped together, occasionally with some read on someone that lacks any justification or development, followed by a shitload of fluff. It doesn't feel like she is having any trains of thought in this game. Which would be a mafia sign, since mafia wants to fake trains of thought.

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

[thellama73]

Day 2

Economics has been called "the dismal science." After last night, it's not hard to see why.

Throughout the night, most of the economists beavered away producing things, and as a result times are BOOMING! But a prosperous economy is small consolation to those not around to enjoy it. Disproving the theory that two wrongs don't make a right, MovingPictures was having such a bad day that he got the heck out of dodge just before something terrible happened. When he came back, some people were dead, and most of the booze was gone.


Metalmarsh89 has been killed by John Maynard Keynes.
Epignosis has been killed by Adam Smith.

My, what a bloodthirsty bunch.

You have 48 hours to lynch one of these vicious killers.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So Adam Smith targetted Malthus and stole his kill, if I'm getting it correctly. That means we have a townie who knows who the serial killer is. Awesome.

Btw, no role reveals on death? Really? Are games here always like this?

[thellama73]

So Adam Smith targetted Malthus and stole his kill, if I'm getting it correctly. That means we have a townie who knows who the serial killer is. Awesome.

Btw, no role reveals on death? Really? Are games here always like this?

Night killed roles are not revealed. Lynches are. You folks at other sites sure have silly rules.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I think you are the ones who have the silly rules. I never heard of this thing before and I've seen mafia games in multiple places.

We even have a name for the mafia role who can (usually a limited number of times) kill a person without revealing their role. It's called a janitor.

[thellama73]

I think you are the ones who have the silly rules. I never heard of this thing before and I've seen mafia games in multiple places.

We even have a name for the mafia role who can (usually a limited number of times) kill a person without revealing their role. It's called a janitor.

I have much to learn from you, o traveler from an arcane land.

[Elohcin]

Interesting evening. RIP Epi and MM.

@DDL, I bet Mafia is a lot easier when you know whose been killed.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.

[Epignosis]

Adam Smith can kiss my laissez-faire ass.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Interesting evening. RIP Epi and MM.

@DDL, I bet Mafia is a lot easier when you know whose been killed.

[Sloonei]

Well that ends a big portion of the discourse. I'm also not used to unrevealed roles, or at least alignments, but I dig the new style and will get used to it.
Bass remains my primary suspect with Elohcin close behind. I'll develop more reads as the day progresses, I hope. I won't be very active until Sunday, though, as I mentioned earlier.

For now I'll ask what, if anything, people have to say about these two nightkills? If there is anything to be made of them. The Epi kill seems to have been carried out by somebody who had been eying him all game, I'd assume. Or we can wifom that all day.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ooops, my login expired and when I went to post the stuff I wrote was gone. Lemme try again.

Interesting evening. RIP Epi and MM.

@DDL, I bet Mafia is a lot easier when you know whose been killed.

Yes, but then all you have to do is buff the mafia team in other ways. Where I play, mafia is usually equipped with better abilities than town. They have bulletproofs, lynch redirectors, superkills, ultrakills, pupetters, people who are immune to cops and/or lie detectors, etc

[Golden]

I really love how different this is for you newbies, because I can really see how much it is exciting but challenging which is neat. I hope you grow to love some of the differences here - while of course bringing your own differences here!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I really love how different this is for you newbies, because I can really see how much it is exciting but challenging which is neat. I hope you grow to love some of the differences here - while of course bringing your own differences here!

I don't mind this new rule to be honest. It adds some of challenge.

I think it's interesting how you guys seem to have a very distinct mafia culture. There are a lot stuff that I see everywhere except here, or that I only see here. For example, forbiding cops from revealing their reads.

[Tangrowth]

Good riddance, Epi. Love you, man, but clearly Adam Smith thought you were bad. Cheers, Mr. Smith.

RIP MM. A bit of a weird kill, since MM has a relatively high propensity to be lynched in games, but I suppose he didn't have any real heat headed his way just yet, so it makes sense I suppose.

I'm looking very solidly at Elo today. I'll consider other options, and Bass is my #2, but I frankly can't see changing my mind. Elo needs to go.

Sloonei, what makes you put Bass above Elo?

[Tangrowth]

I really love how different this is for you newbies, because I can really see how much it is exciting but challenging which is neat. I hope you grow to love some of the differences here - while of course bringing your own differences here!

Also, this.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.

Why would I pursue someone I'm just keeping an eye on. The way I play is with my gut.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So many strange new rules! Nothing wrong with that. This one (not revealing night kill roles) affects me immensely though. I'm going to have to think about how to approach Day 2, because my style has been largely nullified.

Again, no complaint. It'll be an interesting challenge.

[fingersplints]

I've been playing on other sites with night kill roles being revealed for a while now, so it's gotten pretty normal for me l. The game is not easier with roles revealed in these sites because you don't even know what roles are available. I just played a game where role claiming is allowed as well- so not knowing the roles is especially hard because the mafia have to make up roles to claim and you have to see what you believe. It's been fun!
I just played my first game with a janitor! It's fun to see some of the role differences

RIPIYWG Epi and MetalMarsh

[Black Rock]

I've been playing on other sites with night kill roles being revealed for a while now, so it's gotten pretty normal for me l. The game is not easier with roles revealed in these sites because you don't even know what roles are available. I just played a game where role claiming is allowed as well- so not knowing the roles is especially hard because the mafia have to make up roles to claim and you have to see what you believe. It's been fun!
I just played my first game with a janitor! It's fun to see some of the role differences

RIPIYWG Epi and MetalMarsh

Anyone can claim a role in Recruitment Mafia, doesn't mean they're civvie.

I like the idea, not knowing the roles does keep it difficult and leaves room for role claims.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

actually i hadn't realized the kills are specified by the targeting role too, so that helps. we know MM was killed by the mafia team, so that's something i can work with.

[sanmateo]

the fact that there's no reveal for nk's is gonna make this so much harder

Wow, Blue's Clues. I used to watch that like... 15 years ago?

I feel so old. Hey Epi! "HOME! HOME" Our son watched it when he was like 7-8 months old. We we horrible parents in that he would wake up at 5am every morning. So, we kept a pack-n-play full of toys in the living room and would turn on Blues Clues or Baby Einstein and then we would lay back down for just a little more sleep. There was one episode of Blues Clues, Simon would clap his hands and say, "HOME, HOME" with Steve. Simon will be eight in July.

Now. I know many of you are looking at me for tomorrow's lynch. I really don't know how to depend myself b/c I am getting very vague answers as to why I am suspicious. Please, someone (other than MP), as the new day begins, if you are still looking to vote me, just plainly and clearly tell me what I did wrong so I can defend myself. I say someone other than MP, b/c I have heard him rant and rave about me enough already and I think his emotional crazies are getting you all in an uproar about me and I am wondering if you are just going off of that or if you have your own true reasons. Reread me if you must. We will only be on Day 2, there shouldn't be much. But please, give me something to defend against. I don't want to hear my vote was weird or I believed Epi about MP lies. Why was my vote weird? I never said I believed Epi for sure, I said he may be on to something b/c I have experienced similar circumstances. Anyway....if you are going to lynch me, you can at least help me out by telling me WHY?

Linki BR

i cant answer for mp's read on you and i even posted something about it few pages ago becaus he was not being accurate in his posts about you, but i already said why i think you are bad. You clearly said in a post early on a day 1 that you thought golden was a civilian read or something to that effect and then later on after building a whole case against mp you went and voted for golden without ever even hinting why your opinion on him had changed, i think that if either you or mp flip scum the other one should be lynched next.

i already said this a few times tho, are yall skipping over my posts? people do that in rym and i hate it

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i already said this a few times tho, are yall skipping over my posts? people do that in rym and i hate it

i think we noobs are going to have to scream a little louder to ensure our contributions are noticed. i don't think my stuff is getting read by most others either.

[Tangrowth]

I'm pretty sure Elo isn't skipping posts, but genuinely is trying to save herself in any possible way. She's done this before.

[Tangrowth]

That said, it's possible she just hasn't been able to keep up, I suppose. There have been a lot of posts. I know even I've missed a couple of posts myself. I just can't fathom how she's missed literally every explanation of the accusations against her by multiple people.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i reviewed all of MM's posts to see what insights i could dig up. and i came up with very little. he cast some degree of suspicion upon all of these people:

DDL
Golden (town)
Bass
JJJ
MP
Elohcin

but didn't go hard after any of them. he made that one big post against MP for the word "transparency" towards the end of Night 1 i guess. i don't think that's very meaningful.

[Tangrowth]

Any RYMers able to provide insight regarding aether? I have no read on her. I remember her being quiet in early parts of the game when I played, but since she got NKed N1, I haven't really seen her in action as the game progresses.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Honestly I don't see much point in analysing why mafia killed someone. That's WIFOM trap.

And if we apply Occam's Razor, the fact is that Metalmarsh was a player who wasn't really attracting suspicions from anyone, and was being fairly active, voicing suspicions on others and showing interest in the game. That's pretty much the kind of player mafia likes to get rid of.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Honestly I don't see much point in analysing why mafia killed someone. That's WIFOM trap.

And if we apply Occam's Razor, the fact is that Metalmarsh was a player who wasn't really attracting suspicions from anyone, and was being fairly active, voicing suspicions on others and showing interest in the game. That's pretty much the kind of player mafia likes to get rid of.

mafia kills can be used to mislead or manipulate (frames, etc...), so one has to take them with a grain of salt. i still think it'd be wasteful to fail to even examine them though, because sometimes mafiosos just kill players who threaten them. i refuse to allow that to happen unchecked.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

you don't think a dead serial killer would be worth that risk?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Any RYMers able to provide insight regarding aether? I have no read on her. I remember her being quiet in early parts of the game when I played, but since she got NKed N1, I haven't really seen her in action as the game progresses.

she has played at a slow pace consistently in recent games. it's a notable difference from the aether of early 2015 who was highly involved (and she showcased strong play as town and mafia). in this environment i think it's partially shyness and partially personal disengagement contributing to her quietness.

which is to say i don't think it can be reliably called a town or mafia meta. her content just has to be assessed at face value, even if there isn't much of it. at times her disengagement has seemed somewhat deliberate (i.e. "lmao how did Epi not get lynched?"), which i think could be called suspicious. i have her as a mild anti-town read right now.

i encourage you to get involved aether. i know you're capable of very good things.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

you don't think a dead serial killer would be worth that risk?

I think adam smith can be real helpful role to help catch baddies. I mean if you want to just catch one indy and lose the most helpful info role the civs have then poor old george will be on his own.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think adam smith can be real helpful role to help catch baddies. I mean if you want to just catch one indy and lose the most helpful info role the civs have then poor old george will be on his own.

i don't necessarily disagree with you. it wouldn't be too huge a gamble for that player to try to get through another Day/Night and get more information. besides, there ought to be ways to "reveal" the necessary information without obvious tunneling that don't violate the rules. but i don't think that gamble should be carried on too long. the independent player in question can kill someone every night, and that is more likely to be a townie than not purely by the numbers.

this is another new rule for me (not being allowed to reveal information gleaned from one's own role), so i am trying to adjust.

[Marmot]

Oh look, I died early again.

[Bubbles]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I'm getting mafia vibes from Epi too

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I'm getting mafia vibes from Epi too

would you be willing to vote for Epi today? to pursue his lynch?

[Golden]

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.

[Epignosis]

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.