Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Golden]

I've always found the concept of using too many adverbs as a sign of baddiness intriguing. Smileys I understand. I like llama's line of thinking, especially for a Day 1 vote. While Days 1 are some people's favorite hunting days, I hate them with a passion, so sometimes you gotta go with whatever you can without a vote record - silence/hiding, evasiveness, or someone profusely and excessively using adverbs and smileys to a great extent I crack myself up

This. This is what pinged me.

[Sloonei]

My read on Sloonei honestly has to do with the use of smilies and adverbs. I know it seems silly, but there is some truth to it, particularly the smiley part, and the fact that he was self-conscious about it makes it worse.

We have not played together before, but you have hosted both of the Syndicate games I have played prior to this one. How much attention did you pay to those games? Are you familiar at all with my playstyle, or in this case, my writing style? What do you know about me as a player?
Also, what is the rationale behind this adverb/smiley theory?

I know enough. The rationale is primarily observation based, but it also makes sense in that baddies have to walk a line, and it's easier to equivocate with emoticons and adverbs. Where a civvie might say "You are bad! I'm sure of it!" a baddie might say "You are bad, in my opinion." The softener gives them more cover if things don't go their way.

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Okay, but if you look at the context of my adverbified post and my smilies, does it seem like I am walking a line of being cautious? A lot of the content in question is unrelated to this game.
Also, what is "enough"? Could you describe your assessment of my playstyle?

It's not a conscious thing, just a tell of a guilty conscience. I think you realized you were using too many smilies, which is why you pointed it out in a joking fashion.

I don't want to describe my assessment of your play style, so I won't. :P

I was conscious of the smilies because I used the same one in two consecutive posts. I would never consider a person's use of emojis as it relates to their alignment, because I would never consider such a thing to be an indicator of alignment. I use adverbs because I use adverbs. Sometimes they're a natural part of a sentence.
No offense, but this is one of the silliest cases I've ever had to respond to. But it's Day 1, and I do not object to it. How do you feel about my other posts, and particularly these replies to your case?

[Sloonei]

ping on ninja's long post...

Her finding llama's adverb idea 'interesting' and suggesting she might be willing to vote sloonei, that whole latter part of her post felt quite bandwaggony to me and not quite sincere.

I shared this sentiment when I first read her post, but wanted to take a step back because I feel like i'm still using tunnel vision on her after BoB. But yes, this is a point I really want to see addressed.

[Golden]

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

[Sloonei]

If you think G-man phrased his post oddly because of he was wary of the lie detector, does hos exact wording mean anything to you? He does not "pose a threat to the civvies." Does that strike you as the sort of thing scum would say to avoid being caught by a lie detector.
His rationale about not claiming civ due to role claim restrictions does seem a bit odd, i'll give you that.
And I'll also ask for more suspects again. Who besides G-man are you looking at, LoRab?

"Does not pose a threat to the civies" does seem like the sort of thing a baddie would say, yes. Especially if they don't have a power that doesn't have a direct, negative impact on others.

And, at this point, no one else is standing out to me. I'm often a 1 suspect at a time kind of gal. Also, day 1, so not much to go on.

Does this mean your mind and vote are set on G-man today?

I wouldn't say set, but if nothing else comes up and he doesn't say something to convince me, that is likely where I will vote, yes.

Also, as to another post you made (that I forgot to quote), if he was trying to attract the lie detector, then why do so with what is potentially an undetectable statement (a threat to civs can be a matter of opinion as to what that means)...unless you were trying to make sure that a teammate wasn't LD-ed?

At this point we are getting into hypothetics and semantics with regards to the lie detector, and I do not feel that's a totally productive or worthwhile area of discussion right now. However, I would interpret "not a threat to civvies" to mean "not working against the town's interests." But i'm not epi and his is the only judgment that matters here.
Your assertion that he's potentially trying to protect a teammate from being lie detected is a bold one. What makes you think that?

[Ricochet]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

Me neither.

[Sloonei]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

Me neither.

Same here

[Sloonei]

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

Why do you care what people think about you right now? You asked Llama this same question.

[Golden]

I'm feeling better about G-Man. Not 100% better, but a fair bit better.

I sort of understood the suspicion around his curiously worded statement, until we started getting into the lie detector stuff. Then I remembered how, back in the STV days, (ah, the STV mafia days) wording statements in that kind of way was completely normal. I had actually completely forgotten how we used to draft everything in such a way that the lie detector might be able to check us out, and because they couldn't check statements like 'i am civilian', you did used to say stuff like 'i am not a threat to the civilians'.

G-Man has been on break since STV days until very recently, so when I thought that through I realised that it would be pretty logical some of his phrasing would show vestiges of the way we used to do things on STV.

[thellama73]

I don't want to describe my assessment of your play style, so I won't. :P

I was conscious of the smilies because I used the same one in two consecutive posts. I would never consider a person's use of emojis as it relates to their alignment, because I would never consider such a thing to be an indicator of alignment. I use adverbs because I use adverbs. Sometimes they're a natural part of a sentence.
No offense, but this is one of the silliest cases I've ever had to respond to. But it's Day 1, and I do not object to it. How do you feel about my other posts, and particularly these replies to your case?[/quote]

I will never take any offense at someone trying to convince me my case against them is stupid.

[Sloonei]

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

Why do you care what people think about you right now? You asked Llama this same question.

Because I am a player in the game and I'd like to know what people think about every player in the game. I'm particularly interested in myself because I know my alignment and am a huge narcissist. I'll ask anyone to share their read of me if they acknowledge my existence.
What do you think of me, Bass?

[Bass_the_Clever]

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

[Sloonei]

@llama, what do you think of everything in my post history that is not an adverb or a smiley face?

[Sloonei]

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

[Golden]

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

I do not think the adverb/smiley line of reasoning holds any merit as it pertains to you this game.

I don't think the concept has no merit whatsoever, but context and motivation are the most important factors. What is the function of the adverbs? How emotive are the adverbs? Etc...

For example, I found MP using them in Roger Rabbit in what was an effort to sway attention off his own teammate and on to a civilian. I called him out for his use of that kind of language, but I was also able to pin his motivations for the post on him. If I can't see the baddie motivation behind using a whole lot of adverbs, I can't find it suspicious.

I think the biggest strike against the idea is that I've read back enough of my own posts when I'm civilian and they are frequently full of adverbs. Same goes for smilies. And that is because even as a civilian I do try to deliberately set a particular tone (one that won't piss people off).

[Bass_the_Clever]

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

Give me a day or two and I'm suree I will. Its not a bad thing you just seem different this game.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

What is your gun to the head read on me?

[Ricochet]

I think this is my first game with a lie detector role, let alone being familiar with player habits all the way back to previous mafia communities, so I'm inclined to give a pass, if others will vouch for the use of such wording - although now that Golden has done so, I think LoRab did just the opposite (and Bass also thinks the same), so it's not quite settled. Also, the "claiming civ is roleclaiming, so I feared not to break the rules" defense is still kind of clunky.

The wording made me think more of an actual alignment claim slip. I've asked before, what do others think about it?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

[Golden]

Yeah. Bass wasn't around back then, but I'm pretty sure LoRab was, and the entire exchange has given me a bit of a ping on lorab too.

[Sloonei]

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

What is your gun to the head read on me?

Town. I like that you are asking me this question. It's bold and suggests you're being aggressive. Your posts feel more like BoB Bass than Economics Bass so far, and I hope you can continue to build on this.
I did feel like this post was a bit odd, though, since you've played with me a fee times now, and I tought you'd know that asking everyone a million questions was my bag, so you asking why I'm asking questions seemed a bit insincere.

[Golden]

The wording made me think more of an actual alignment claim slip. I've asked before, what do others think about it?

I think that if it was an intended alignment claim, it wasn't a slip.

[Golden]

Yeah. Bass wasn't around back then, but I'm pretty sure LoRab was, and the entire exchange has given me a bit of a ping on lorab too.

Not nearly so big as my ping on ninja though.

If I was voting right now, ninja would likely be my vote.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Yeah. Bass wasn't around back then, but I'm pretty sure LoRab was, and the entire exchange has given me a bit of a ping on lorab too.

I wasn't around back then but I have played in games on this site that have a LD in then.

[Epignosis]

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

No.

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

No.

[Sloonei]

I need to pull myself away from this thread for an hour or so. I don't want my entire pre-work day to be consumed by mafia. I'll be back later, and in the meantime I hope everyone continues to ask and answer a thousand questions. I like the amount of content that's been generated in here today and hope to have at least a decent vote before I leave. Keep talkin'.

[Ricochet]

The wording made me think more of an actual alignment claim slip. I've asked before, what do others think about it?

I think that if it was an intended alignment claim, it wasn't a slip.

I'll quote myself to explain better what I meant (hopefully)

If he accidentally claimed Watchmen, it's so interpretable, because the Watchmen go different ways and a lynch would probably have different repercussions for each one as well. Anyone has a take on this?

[Bass_the_Clever]

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

What is your gun to the head read on me?

Town. I like that you are asking me this question. It's bold and suggests you're being aggressive. Your posts feel more like BoB Bass than Economics Bass so far, and I hope you can continue to build on this.
I did feel like this post was a bit odd, though, since you've played with me a fee times now, and I tought you'd know that asking everyone a million questions was my bag, so you asking why I'm asking questions seemed a bit insincere.

I agree that asking questions is meta for you but you only asked Golden and Llama what they thought about you. I thought it was strange that you only asked those two people.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

No.

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

No.

Thank you x 2

[LoRab]

If you think G-man phrased his post oddly because of he was wary of the lie detector, does hos exact wording mean anything to you? He does not "pose a threat to the civvies." Does that strike you as the sort of thing scum would say to avoid being caught by a lie detector.
His rationale about not claiming civ due to role claim restrictions does seem a bit odd, i'll give you that.
And I'll also ask for more suspects again. Who besides G-man are you looking at, LoRab?

"Does not pose a threat to the civies" does seem like the sort of thing a baddie would say, yes. Especially if they don't have a power that doesn't have a direct, negative impact on others.

And, at this point, no one else is standing out to me. I'm often a 1 suspect at a time kind of gal. Also, day 1, so not much to go on.

Does this mean your mind and vote are set on G-man today?

I wouldn't say set, but if nothing else comes up and he doesn't say something to convince me, that is likely where I will vote, yes.

Also, as to another post you made (that I forgot to quote), if he was trying to attract the lie detector, then why do so with what is potentially an undetectable statement (a threat to civs can be a matter of opinion as to what that means)...unless you were trying to make sure that a teammate wasn't LD-ed?

At this point we are getting into hypothetics and semantics with regards to the lie detector, and I do not feel that's a totally productive or worthwhile area of discussion right now. However, I would interpret "not a threat to civvies" to mean "not working against the town's interests." But i'm not epi and his is the only judgment that matters here.
Your assertion that he's potentially trying to protect a teammate from being lie detected is a bold one. What makes you think that?

This whole game is about hypothetics and semantics....it's the joy of mafia. I don't think he necessarily is trying to protect a teammate, but when you said it seemed like he was trying to attract the LD to his post, that was a reason that I though of that one might do so.

@Golden: At least on LP and Piano (I never played on STV), the convoluted statements were often, in my experience, more convoluted from baddies than from civies. His wording, to me, doesn't sound civ. Neutral, maybe, but I also don't, as a general rule, trust neutrals.

And, moreover, his statement of thinking that saying one was civ was role claiming and against the rules, really doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I was around back then. And G Man played for a while on LP/Piano after STV stopped having mafia, pre-hiatus, I believe (although could have been before STV stopped hosting, but the exact timing isn't important). And, in fact, I often would make similar arguments about peoples' statements in those days, too. But, if I recall, you and I didn't play together until I started playing on RM.


At any rate, eye me all you want. *twirls*

[LoRab]

In other news, I just realized I needed to update my time zone setting and daylight savings. Which means there are 2 more hours to this poll than I thought there were.

[Tangrowth]

LoRab, don't forget you have the smiley named after you!

Anyway, updated rainbow list incoming. Golden and I are on the same wavelength, since in catching up I was just typing out something that Blooper's entire post was "a whole lot of words without saying much of anything" and that particular part that Golden highlighted appeared to me like she was providing cover for herself to make a Day 1 vote later, as if she doesn't genuinely care to baddie hunt.

I also am starting to come around to giving G-Man another Day, especially since the STV context (I forgot about this, but I think we had a similar discussion in a different game with zeek), and because he is posting a lot. There are way too many players hiding back, the momentum is way too heavy against G-Man, so I'm way more interested in searching for other suspects at the moment.

[Tangrowth]

Did anyone else notice how Elo seemingly jumped onto a vibes-based suspicion of Sloonei (which I held), and then dropped it, after I dropped it? What do folks think of that? I'm not sure what to make of Elo right now.

[Tangrowth]

MP's Rainbow List - Day 1 (~4.5 Hours Remaining)

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

Bass_the_Clever
Golden
thellama73

Cookie
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
espers
Long Con
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Russtifinko
Scotty
timmer

G-Man
nijuukyugou
Sloonei

For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

[Tangrowth]

MP's Rainbow List - Day 1 (~4.5 Hours Remaining)

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

Bass_the_Clever
Golden
thellama73

Cookie
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
espers
Long Con
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Russtifinko
Scotty
Sloonei
timmer

G-Man
nijuukyugou

For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Whoops, I meant to move Sloonei completely up to No read. He's there now.

[Tangrowth]

Bah, I should have continued my method of quoting all the posts as I go. Sorry for all the posts, guys.

I have some questions:

Elo, can you elaborate on your reads of those individuals in your most recent post? Particularly I'm interested in why you find me to be civilian this game, but in Economics, you said I seemed overly helpful.

Bass, can you elaborate on what it is you're feeling with Sloonei in this game, in any way? How is he different to you? Like, name an adjective, first one that comes to mind, that explains the difference.

Be back later, folks. I promise I'll continue my more organized posts next time, I just was in a rush this time around.

[timmer]

I voted for myself. Spent all day cleaning, getting ready, friends due any minute. I will get into the game when I can!

[Tangrowth]

I voted for myself. Spent all day cleaning, getting ready, friends due any minute. I will get into the game when I can!

Why, timmer, why???

If you KNOW you're a civilian, then why not just take a chance randomizing? Randomized votes are absolutely terrible, but at least they aren't 100% likely to land on a civilian if you are a civilian and self vote. Now you've left us with a scenario where we have to WIFOM and figure out what your intentions are.

Sigh.

Nonetheless, I'm out now, for real, have more work to do. I'll probably be back within an hour or two of EoD. I look forward to hearing from you when you DO get the chance, timmer.

[LoRab]

Until I just read MP's list, I kind of forgot LC was playing. So I checked the who's posted thingie, and he only has 1 post (only other person with 1 post, btw, is K-nuk, who isn't playing). And here's his 1 post:

If we are going to consider a policy lynch of any sort for Day 1, why not the person with the lowest posts?

You mean the player whose posts can be read with the deepest voice or the player who writes the low-down meanest posts?

I believe the word you are looking for is fewest.

G-Man is now on my list of people that I will not vote for on Day 1.

linki- are we doing a Golden Day 1 lynch? Is that what we're doing?

Statistics tell me leaving Golden alive is always bad for town. Never played a game where he didn't destroy the fuck out of the poor civs.

If it wasn't for Golden, the civilians wouldn't have won Biblical or Roger Rabbit, so... I can provide counterexamples for practically every example.

Is anyone here seriously considering a policy lynch option for Day 1? I just don't think it's wise.

Hey- Golden had a LOT of help behind the scenes. Never forget that. He was right and I was wrong about the final baddie but my lists helped serve up at least two baddies- one of which I handed to Golden on a silver platter from beyond the grave. I'd like to think that he would have had a much harder time winning that game without my help.

I will not stand for a closed-minded town on Day 1.

Then take a seat.

For the record... I was taking it all in stride. As in, I thought that everyone was pretty much joking, but I saw the potential for any of them to make it real just for fun as well. Although Metalmarsh and Golden are survival buddies right now, so I doubt either of them are inclined to lynch unless they're pretty convinced.

Anywho, I'll vote for Rorschach's Journal, because Rorschach is my favourite part of a story made of awesome parts. This quote I quoted is where I have read up to at this point, be back later.

Ironic that his first comment is on a comment (an awesome comment, btw) about fewest posts. Which manages to comment on the matter without commenting on the matter.

As importantly, he manages to say he will not vote for G-Man without having to defend him. Given the fact that I suspect G-Man, this strikes me as suspicious.

And the bulk of his post is about another game--nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but he barely makes comment on this game. Which isn't really like him.

I am still suspicious of G Man. But LC has just moved up on my suspiciometer (I guess I have 2 suspects now, lol). And I hope he posts more. I may throw him a vote just to get him to post more.

[Marmot]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

ping on ninja's long post...

Her finding llama's adverb idea 'interesting' and suggesting she might be willing to vote sloonei, that whole latter part of her post felt quite bandwaggony to me and not quite sincere.

The opening segment, apologizing for a long post, bothered me more-so.

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

Golly, I hope not. Every player strives to look like a civilian, and saying so should not be against the rules.

But I know you would never hear Epignosis say it as a player.

[Ricochet]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

[Marmot]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

No.

[Scotty]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

No.

There's the MM I remember from BoB. Intentionally vague and unhelpful when questioned about outside information.

Why even comment about it at all?

[Scotty]

If espers shows up, I want to know if he (she?) also received something, since they both voted for Manhattan's lab.

Bathroom break over, back to work.

[Marmot]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

No.

There's the MM I remember from BoB. Intentionally vague and unhelpful when questioned about outside information.

Why even comment about it at all?

I want to see who else benefited from the poll and what I think of them.

Linki: That too, and I think espers is a he?

[Ricochet]

Did anyone else notice how Elo seemingly jumped onto a vibes-based suspicion of Sloonei (which I held), and then dropped it, after I dropped it? What do folks think of that? I'm not sure what to make of Elo right now.

It did stand out to me that she worded her suspicion roughly the same way you did, yes. Her backing out was also far less elaborate or reasoned than yours (which followed after some dialogue with Sloonei, at least): from "Just something about him reads scummy to me. Can't put my finger on it." to "I am failing to find anything that sticks out to me as scummy." with not even a post in between.

linki: I also await to see if espers got anything, due to the voting connection.

[Marmot]

Post Links complete with gender coloring (Female/Male).

Bass_the_Clever - Posts
Cookie - Posts
DharmaHelper - Posts
Dragon D. Luffy - Posts
Elohcin - Posts
espers - Posts
G-Man - Posts
Golden - Posts
Long Con - Posts
LoRab - Posts
Metalmarsh89 - Posts
MovingPictures07 - Posts
nijuukyugou - Posts
Ricochet - Posts
Russtifinko - Posts
Scotty - Posts
Sloonei - Posts
thellama73 - Posts
timmer - Posts

[Marmot]

EBWOP: I don't actually know Scotty's gender, but I listed Scotty as male, mainly because of the name.