Mountain Mafia [END]

[dunya]

my reads right now. I don't feel good about placing speed so low, so I'm going to focus what time I DO have today to making a case and determining his proper placement.

Bottom 5 are all fair game imo.

dunya
Sloonei
Epignosis
Long Con
nutella
Quin
Elohcin
Dragon D. Luffy
colonialbob
sig
insertnamehere - Glorfindel
Kylemii
malakim2099 - Dom
speedchuck
DrWilgy

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.

If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.

You're forgetting the tie on Jack and Sloonei Day 2. If nutella was Everest, (which we will say is possible for sake of this argument and since you assume she's not being killed because scum think it's not important to kill Everest when K2 inherits their ability, and they could take out other more important roles????----which are never revealed so they never know who they are taking out), Jack would have been clearly lynched vs Sloonei. Since he analyzed that situation as much as Sloonei, I feel he is not Aconcagua or Pico Cristóbal Colón. Plus, 2 empty night kills makes me feel Aconcagua was definitely targeted at night.

Also I completely disagree that taking out Everest and trying to figure out who K2 isn't important. I think they have the most dangerous day roles. Lynch shenanigans are a very important tool for scum. Their priority would be Everest and K2 imo.

Imo their priority is Denali, Logan, Elbrus, and Matterhorn. The first three because they have information, actually the most powerful thing civs may have. The later because it is probably hiding some true powerful shit.

Abilities that manipulate vote are not really that important, because at the end of the day they can go either way. Civ roles are only scary when they know where to aim at.

[dunya]

My activity level is going to decrease, I have finals, I can't be stupid. Sorry about that, but we have a strong town team so I'm not worried.

[dunya]

I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.

If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.

You're forgetting the tie on Jack and Sloonei Day 2. If nutella was Everest, (which we will say is possible for sake of this argument and since you assume she's not being killed because scum think it's not important to kill Everest when K2 inherits their ability, and they could take out other more important roles????----which are never revealed so they never know who they are taking out), Jack would have been clearly lynched vs Sloonei. Since he analyzed that situation as much as Sloonei, I feel he is not Aconcagua or Pico Cristóbal Colón. Plus, 2 empty night kills makes me feel Aconcagua was definitely targeted at night.

Also I completely disagree that taking out Everest and trying to figure out who K2 isn't important. I think they have the most dangerous day roles. Lynch shenanigans are a very important tool for scum. Their priority would be Everest and K2 imo.

Imo their priority is Denali, Logan, Elbrus, and Matterhorn. The first three because they have information, actually the most powerful thing civs may have. The later because it is probably hiding some true powerful shit.

Abilities that manipulate vote are not really that important, because at the end of the day they can go either way. Civ roles are only scary when they know where to aim at.

again, out of the day roles, which is relevant for half the game, Everest is most powerful in causing what they would call a "mislynch" on who they want out of the game. I stand by my statement, that's a very important role for a scum team. Or should I say a "scum dunya".

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It doesn't matter if it is relevant to half the game when their ability to make dents at mafia during that half is small compared to other roles' ability to make dents during the other half.

[dunya]

[mention]nutella[/mention], thanks for your reply. I don't like players who are wishy washy but then down strong on someone without any reason stated. I got really nervous when I saw what panned out with Jay, especially when I know some bussing must have occurred. Your response was inspiring and genuine. I feel better about it.

[dunya]

we didn't get a note from K2.

[dunya]

As for not being nightkilled, I'm not too surprised honestly. When someone is more or less confirmed/generally accepted town, mafia often leave them be for a while because they are likely to be protected or because they don't want to do what is expected and maybe go for another common town read (i.e. Spacedaisy) and, as Epi pointed out, probably someone with an ability they can and want to eliminate (i.e. Spacedaisy).

TMI

if we're all thinking the same thing as to what Spacedaisy was, it appears the majority think her role was not important.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Mafia is difficult for me. Epi, when you asked me what I think of Jack, it was like trying to do a look-and-find in my brain, tbh. There are so many players, so many components, so much of not knowing where to place who. It's like when you cook in the kitchen and every ingredient is left out after usage. Dirty pots and pans everywhere and utinsils all over the place. When I go into the kitchen to plate the food, I have to find the lid to each container and put everything away, fill the dw with the dirty dishes and clean off the counter tops even before I can plate the food. If I don't, my brain is overwhelmed by the disorganization and I cannot think straight to plate all the components for each person. Jack is like the lid to the oregano seasoning in a sea of kitchen disarray. This is my view of mafia and why it's so difficult for me.

Do like me, start mafia by joining a 50 player game in your second game.

This way you get used to not reading everyone at once and focusing on a few people at a time.

[speedchuck]

Matterhorn, K2, and Elbrus are the most powerful town roles IMO.

[Elohcin]

GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.

Bad
Bad
Bad
Civ

Whi id bob bad?

[dunya]

do you feel bad about placing a vote on malakim, speedchuck? why or why not?

[Sloonei]

I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

Post 3302.

also i put my vote back on jay. his ISOs don't sway me much. That's exactly what I'd expect him to do as scum. It's exactly what he always says players, town or scum, should do in the face of pressure. I don't feel like his mesk vote came from a place of sincerity and prior to today I got very little sense that he was trying to solve the game in any capacity.

Post 3287.

My bad, guys. Sloonei voted Jimmy before Bob.

This doesn't look good for Bob.

I'm voting for Bob, but this is not a legitimate accusation. Bob stated openly thay my vote came before his. Jack was the one who doubted it, and he was checking the timing of our votes to confirm it for himself.

[Elohcin]

The time I don't get linki and realize I typoed the crap out of a post.

[Elohcin]

we didn't get a note from K2.

Does this mean k2 was jack?

[Sloonei]

A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.

The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

Honestly no. If a scummate of mine has just join ed BTSC I'm not going to give them a rundown of all the possible Syndicate mechanics they might not be aware of. Chances are I won't be aware they don't know about the janitor kill until after they say it themselves.

I am coming back down a little on this theory, but I still don't think I want to lynch mal today.

[Epignosis]

we didn't get a note from K2.

Does this mean k2 was jack?

It means Spacedaisy probably was.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.

I keep my promises.

*kylemii*

[Sloonei]

we didn't get a note from K2.

Does this mean k2 was jack?

Or daisy

[Sloonei]

I'll be at work or asleep for most of this day phase. I've put my reasons for suslecting colonialbob intk the thread already. I encourage discussion of him. I discourage hasty decisions.

[Epignosis]

The writing style sounded like Spacedaisy.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It was eighteen pages of reading dictionary definitions and debating what "is" means and now I think you're both bad.

Calling it now.

One of Epi and Kyle is bad.

But I think Epi is good so...

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

Post 3302.

also i put my vote back on jay. his ISOs don't sway me much. That's exactly what I'd expect him to do as scum. It's exactly what he always says players, town or scum, should do in the face of pressure. I don't feel like his mesk vote came from a place of sincerity and prior to today I got very little sense that he was trying to solve the game in any capacity.

Post 3287.

My bad, guys. Sloonei voted Jimmy before Bob.

This doesn't look good for Bob.

Bob already mentioned that twice but apparently nobody actually reads what he says

Patience, young grasshopper. I have now read all of your defenses.

Which now makes me torn on whether to buy you or Sloonei.

[Sloonei]

Buy me, I'm right

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself nstead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.

I ended up jumping back on Jay to save myself. So I think it cancels out.

Why not on Jay?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

LC is an odd case right now. Still want to gutread him as good. I'm interested in thoughts about how he handled Eloh's read a few posts ago, as well as his readlist that (lol) put Jack as number 1 scumread right before the lynch.

His vote on JJJ, even as he said, looks like posturing but he hasn't taken advantage of it. I think that goes for a lot of current things LC is doing. They look like convenient town or scum tells, but then he keeps hanging lampshades on them. The level of self awareness is throwing me for a wine spiral.

"Actually, my vote on JJJ was worthless"
"I don't know why you're defending me Eloh"
"readlist with Jack as bad RIGHT BEFORE jack dies"

Feels weird. Super honest with a smashing of wine. I keep writing "gut says town" on this post but I'm not sure what my gut says beyond "Urgh I feel terrible."

I feel you. And I think he is being doing it on purpose to makes us confused and avoid being both lynched and NK'd. But that's also something a civ would do. Especially a seasoned civ who is probably more interested in Chicka Chicka so he would come here just to troll us.

[Sloonei]

I could see an argument for LC being bad but I'm not fully convinced yet.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.

Bad
Bad
Bad
Civ

Whi id bob bad?

Because "I don't know, please leave me alone" is not usually an accepted answer in GTH exercises.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Buy me, I'm right

The last time I did you left me alone voting for Bob while you went and voted for Mesk.

[Sloonei]

Buy me, I'm right

The last time I did you left me alone voting for Bob while you went and voted for Mesk.

Only because no one else was joining us.

[Marmot]

A NEW DAY

Jack of hearts has been nightkilled.
It is now Day 5. You have ~24 hours to lynch someone.

First of all, that is a bit shocking as there was suspicion on jack. Second, 5:36am!? Marmot, you need to get your internal clock fixed buddy. Now I will have to vote like 7-8 hours before the lynch is over!!

Sorry about that. Things are a little busy on my end,
and I didn't want to push the result back anymore than it had been.

[speedchuck]

do you feel bad about placing a vote on malakim, speedchuck? why or why not?

Nah. He's been here what, 2 in-game days? That's long enough.

Oh, sorry, I didn't call it. Malakim.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Malakim hasn't logged in since saturday afternoon. I may have pissed him off in my argument with him.

[dunya]

do you feel bad about placing a vote on malakim, speedchuck? why or why not?

Nah. He's been here what, 2 in-game days? That's long enough.

Oh, sorry, I didn't call it. Malakim.

do you feel his lack of contributions aren't more along the lines of of overwhelmed townie?

What are your reasons for voting for malakim?

He's one of my suspects too, so if no one else wants to park on Wilgy, I may be inclined to follow you with a malakim vote but I didnt want to rush into it without giving him a chance to get settled and tell us stuff so we can judge him more fairly. His contributions so far haven't sat well with me. I was in the same boat but felt it necessary to share my thoughts on everything as I went along. He was a lot more reserved.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I do feel sorry a little but I also feel a sense of "what the hell am I supposed to do" when the guy reacts so badly to being voted in a mafia game.

If he is actually legit pissed off this could be a matter to consider, though.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Imo if our killer role is alive and active he should be shooting the likes of INH and Sig. And Malakim, should he not come back.

[speedchuck]

Malakim's "Janitor?" comment has no alignment relevance for a few reasons:

1. It's not a part of the scum roles.
2. Genuine confusion is a great way to seem town, but if given the opportunity, mafia can use it. This was an opportunity.
3. Malakim thought that maybe the 3P role janitored the kill.

Heck, I also didn't know if the nightkills would be janitored until one happened. I suspected, but I didn't scour the OP. I respect Malakim enough to assume that, when replacing in as scum, he can fake confusion well enough. Especially when it is applied to mechanics that genuinely hasn't looked at.

I wouldn't say it's a scumtell either. Just a big ol' nothing

linki: I'll get to that

[Sloonei]

What do people think about Sloonei? GTH's, cases, whatever.

Lean town. From what little exposure I have seems like town Sloonei, I like the questions and prodding people. Not enough reads or firm statements that I recall to make me really solidify the town read though.

I went back to pull out a Specific Thing from Bob's ISO but this caught my eye because it has my name in it so I want to harp on it briefly. This is the sort of wishywashy early read that I usually am suspicious of. He sets me up as a town read but then makes sure to leave the door open for a case to be made against me. I get bad vibes from this because I'm getting bad vibes from everything he's posting. Now onto what I actually set out to do...

[speedchuck]

do you feel bad about placing a vote on malakim, speedchuck? why or why not?

Nah. He's been here what, 2 in-game days? That's long enough.

Oh, sorry, I didn't call it. Malakim.

do you feel his lack of contributions aren't more along the lines of of overwhelmed townie?

What are your reasons for voting for malakim?

He's one of my suspects too, so if no one else wants to park on Wilgy, I may be inclined to follow you with a malakim vote but I didnt want to rush into it without giving him a chance to get settled and tell us stuff so we can judge him more fairly. His contributions so far haven't sat well with me. I was in the same boat but felt it necessary to share my thoughts on everything as I went along. He was a lot more reserved.

I'm voting him for lack of contributions? News to me. I thought I was voting him based on vote placement. His contributions aren't really lackluster, it's the direction that bothers me.
"That's long enough" is referring to me not feeling bad about lynching someone who just replaced in.

Granted, it's daystart, my vote is prone to move. We'll see.

[speedchuck]

Imo if our killer role is alive and active he should be shooting the likes of INH and Sig. And Malakim, should he not come back.

I probably would have shot Dunya. "STOP POSTING SO MUCH I'M TRYING TO HUNT."

But no really, if you're out there, pls kill INH. We can't read anything whatsoever into a missing player. Sig at least has some posts, same for Malakim.

[Long Con]

LC is an odd case right now. Still want to gutread him as good. I'm interested in thoughts about how he handled Eloh's read a few posts ago, as well as his readlist that (lol) put Jack as number 1 scumread right before the lynch.

His vote on JJJ, even as he said, looks like posturing but he hasn't taken advantage of it. I think that goes for a lot of current things LC is doing. They look like convenient town or scum tells, but then he keeps hanging lampshades on them. The level of self awareness is throwing me for a wine spiral.

"Actually, my vote on JJJ was worthless"
"I don't know why you're defending me Eloh"
"readlist with Jack as bad RIGHT BEFORE jack dies"

Feels weird. Super honest with a smashing of wine. I keep writing "gut says town" on this post but I'm not sure what my gut says beyond "Urgh I feel terrible."

I feel you. And I think he is being doing it on purpose to makes us confused and avoid being both lynched and NK'd. But that's also something a civ would do. Especially a seasoned civ who is probably more interested in Chicka Chicka so he would come here just to troll us.

No, seriously, I am not doing anything on purpose. I would so much rather have just been right about everything. And we both know that there's not that much going on in CC123, that I would need to *focus* there and have this be my side game to troll. Mountain Mafia was very exciting to start, after having only CC123 for so long.

[dunya]

Have you played with malakim before, speedchuck?

[Sloonei]

For anyone who cares, my biggest hang up regarding the cbob/Jay pairing is this conversation that they carried out over the final hours of Day 2:

Spoiler: show

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

Let's ask Sloonei:

Spoiler: show

Putting a vote on sprityo because I want to hear from him. I'm going out for a bit, will be back before the deadline.

Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Uh-huh.

You negated my BTSC theory, but I still see in-thread evidence that coild to against her. In the absence of strong suspects, I'm not eliminating her from suspicion.

In the absence of strong suspects, I can get behind the idea of lynchig a low poster.

It appears the influence Epi had over his vote switch relates to content separate from Elohcin's rainbow list -- instead it relates to the meta discussion pertaining to her behavior when she has BTSC. This strikes me as consistent with the notion that she could still warrant a vote given the other reasons Sloonei's stated suspicion exists.

Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.

Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.

Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.

Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.

This has been the fastest-paced side mission I've ever seen here. The only competition that comes to mind at the moment is Economics, and I believe that had 48 hour days. This environment is a challenging one for a mafia team to handle, and with that in mind I believe there's a better chance of finding them among the low-posters than there would be in some other randomly selected game. Consider the present wagons, that dynamic, and sprityo's recent conduct in this thread and I think it's the best decision right now.

I'm not fully on board with Sloonei as town. I don't care. This is EOD, and the point is to make the best vote I can make. I think there's more reason to view him as a civilian than there is for sprityo. I think there's more reason to view Jack as a civilian too.

Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.

Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.

This has been the fastest-paced side mission I've ever seen here. The only competition that comes to mind at the moment is Economics, and I believe that had 48 hour days. This environment is a challenging one for a mafia team to handle, and with that in mind I believe there's a better chance of finding them among the low-posters than there would be in some other randomly selected game. Consider the present wagons, that dynamic, and sprityo's recent conduct in this thread and I think it's the best decision right now.

I'm not fully on board with Sloonei as town. I don't care. This is EOD, and the point is to make the best vote I can make. I think there's more reason to view him as a civilian than there is for sprityo. I think there's more reason to view Jack as a civilian too.

Ok, the first part is pretty good logic. I can follow that.

You come across as defending Sloonei though. I'd prefer you spend your time convincing me Sprit is bad.

You come across as defending Sloonei though. I'd prefer you spend your time convincing me Sprit is bad.

*vote Nutella*

I want to hear more of what LC has to say because he has my ear

From Nutella i haven’t picked up icy *anything* over the course of checking in throughout today

I also lean trusting on jack and speed so I like the Nutella lynch

Reads exist, vaguely, and a vote is attributed to two other people. Indeed, the most substantive reasoning offered for the nutella vote is that other people voted for nutella. If we perceive her as a civilian, it's not ideal that he placed the responsibility for his vote in their laps.

~~~

His posts are generally explorations of things and less about takes on people. It's the kind of look I would associate with manufactured effort.

~~~

Well you can expect more of me not being here.

I’m stepping away for the night.

Do what you wish, I don’t care

I don't know what this is. He didn't lead the tally and still felt it was so awful that he'd received votes that he couldn't bear to stay. I question the sincerity.

In it they discuss between themselves the theories surrounding myself and sprityo (now dunya) at the time. The two of them initiated and carried out this conversation by their own volition, to discuss their opposing viewpoints about two players who are probably both town, I now realize. My question is whether or not this looks like two scum partners dancing around each other to look authentic and create some post-mortem separation, as that is what I'd have to read it as if I'm to believe cbob is town.

I'd like to hear thoughts on this, and it's really the most critical point in my read of colonialbob at this stage.

[Kylemii]

When J³ made his "farewell I'm dying" post it read as sincere to me too. I wasn't actually convinced we'd done the right thing until he flipped Choco Hills like 3 hours later.

Time to play an Epi.

What is the point of those sentences? You already explained your votes. So now you're just being dramatic. I don't like it.

Not everything has to have a purpose. I was just painting the whole picture.

[dunya]

what time is eod here now? I'm getting really confused.

[Kylemii]

Good morning. I still have two pages to read, but so far, people are coming around to LC as a possible baddie. I seem to remember someone else thinking LC could be bad. Oh yeah...it was me!

we're best friends and he's invited to my wedding.

Put us up in a hotel with a kitchen and I'll make your cake!

Well now I have an incentive to actually get married

[Sloonei]

what time is eod here now? I'm getting really confused.

you should be able to set the page and poll to display your local time in the user control panel, i think

[Sloonei]

I'd want malakim to say more things before I commit to lynching him. I've eased off the town read I was giving him earlier because I didn't like the strength of the case being made against him and still have reservations about the notion that "Jay saved Dom" on Day 3, but overall I don't really have much reason to stand in the way of a case against him if I don't read his confusion about the janitored nightkills as being a town-indicator.

Kyle is a good tinfoil suspect but I'd want a substantive case against him before I consider a vote. If I had time to do that today, I would. I think we could get some good discussion going about him. By "we" I again mean "you all".

Ditto for Long Con. I am presently more inclined to vote LC than Kyle.

Last but not least, anyone who doesn't vote colonialbob is literally the Grinch.

[Sloonei]

oh and dunya's voting for wilgy. That's an interesting one. There's been some discussion about him, but I came out of my Jayread feeling like he and wilgy were too strongly opposed to each other to be teammates, though that's not a read I made with great confidence. Care to rehash anything or add anything new to the case, @[mention]dunya[/mention]

[speedchuck]

Have you played with malakim before, speedchuck?

Once, in SF2 mafia. He was scum. I correctly suspected him for a lot of the early game and a couple of the other scum members later, but I was on top of my town game in that game. Then inactivity happened, town never got anywhere, and I got killed.