Transistor [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Given that Zebra was a relatively easy target, it'd seem prudent to look at each of her voters individually to judge whether there were opportunists. That's what I'll be doing over the next few posts.

Matt (1st vote)

Spoiler: show

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

Um what?

I'm gonna vote Zebra because if there's some kind of "Day ends early" shenanis, I'd like to try and counter that asap.

Wow Zeebs, really?

This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them.

zebra and Matt, please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning.

Um whatevs.

It was like, 3:00 am last night and I was dead tired, Zeebs votes me and says "wait isn't day supposed to end????" and I read that and start trippin' cuz I'm wondering if there are some kind of "end the day early" shenanis going on, so yeah, I NO U'd the shit out of her "random" vote because I was trippin'.

In retrospect, if there was "end the day early" shenanis going on, and by Zeebs, then that would mean she's probably civ because usually civs hold that power, I believe.

But again, whatevs, I was tired, I was trippin', I voted dat Zebra.

I have no idea what I think about Zebra. I'm wondering wth she meant by "wait wasn't the day supposed to end??" and I'd like her to come back and explain herself.

Matt's vote was rather abrupt, coming in response to Zebra's confusion about when the day was supposed to end. The manner in which Matt observed something curious and responded to it with an immediate vote based upon an outside-the-box theory (that Zebra's behavior might be caused by a power that'd end the day early) is distinctly within the realm of Mattalk. That he placed the vote without thinking it through first isn't the best look, but it's also Matt's style to react strongly and severely to things in the moment. I can see this being a town Matt moment.

~~~

Illyria (2nd vote)

Spoiler: show

I just finished watching Angel. I'm curious Illyria, is your name taken from the demon of the same name from that show?

Oops! I randomized and got Matt!

Indeed it is. She has always been one of my favorite characters.

Why in the world would you do that??

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

I'm confused at your confusion.

^^This. I am terrible at reading and remembering roles but it is pretty easy to look at the top of the poll where it tells you the time it ends.

Whoa, this is coming out of nowhere!

No.. no it isn't.

I don't know you, so I can't speak to your playstyle but when several people whom I DO know are saying this is not normal, which is matching what my gut is telling me, I am going to listen.

I am reading every post, but the real crux is that I don't understand what is going with the game mechanics itself-- I am still not wanting to run w/Drum's plan (too risky) though at least I understand what you are saying better now than I did when you first posted it.

Matt, I think you and Elo have very different playstyles which can be problematic. I am reminded that you and I do as well, and you were like a damn dog with a bone decrying I was bad for what.. Four Mafia days?? I was not. I do not trust your instincts. So I am not following an Elo vote.

My list of who I suspect right now is not all that clear. So I am going to do a rainbow list like y'all like. In dark colors though, y'all are KILLING my old eyeballs with these neon and bright colors.

Maybe Good:
MP
Matt

No Idea:
Elo
JJJ
Drum
LA
llama
Rey
sig
niju
nero
DF
AATB
agle


Maybe Bad:
Dr Wilgy
Zebra

LA, congrats that is amazing. I am so proud of you!

*sigh*


Dr Wilgy, I get that you are "zany", but your playstyle is making me want to vote for you.

But I am voting for zebra, I have to go to work and will be at work until 1 am tonight so I am voting now. Their confuzzled demeanor seems fake, and over the top.


Votes Zebra

There is content prior to her vote which can at least project that it might be coming. Her commentary does primarily amount to Zebra's behavior being abnormal. The rainbow list she provided features two baddie reads, those being arguably the two easiest baddie reads of early Day 1 (Zebra and DrWilgy). There is potential for opportunism here.

~~~

DFaraday (3rd vote)

Spoiler: show

I'm not necessarily opposed to DB's idea, but I don't know if the baddies would actually go along with that, since it would require them to spend NKs on the Process but not the player behind it (or anyone else). We also don't know if DB's NK-then-lynch plan is even how to defeat the process.

As far as actual suspicions go, Zebra's weird behavior is striking me as very unhelpful and rather pingy. Matt a bit as well, but at least he's explained himself for the most part.

Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing

It indicates that Zebra is playing in an unhelpful manner to the town, at least.

*votes Zebra*

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

I'm never terribly inspired when people justify votes with something along the lines of "they're not being helpful to town", because that isn't the same thing as "they're pursuing a pro-baddie agenda". With Zebra's flip in hand this bears the appearance of a sort of pre-emptive blaming of the victim. That's not a great look.

[Epignosis]

Replacements Happen

Sometimes there is just a whirlwind of activity in Cloudwalk, so there is never any shame in being replaced. For example, reywaS has been replaced by kneel4justice, an eager participant. If you ever feel you need a replacement, don't be afraid to ask for one from your travel agent or Host! Either one can book you some much needed time in the country!

Total replacements: 1

Comment? >_

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Continuing the previous exercise:

Elohcin (4th vote)

Spoiler: show

I just finished watching Angel. I'm curious Illyria, is your name taken from the demon of the same name from that show?

Oops! I randomized and got Matt!

Sorry Matt!

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

This tells me a few things. #1) You didn't read page one with the rules/roles/etc. #2) You didn't click on view results and see that no one else had voted yet before placing your randomized vote. #3) You most likely didn't read the thread before voting b/c if you had you would see we are not at EoD just from seeing the discussions on hand. #4) You don't care about helping civs to win this game.

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

Um what?

I'm gonna vote Zebra because if there's some kind of "Day ends early" shenanis, I'd like to try and counter that asap.

Wow Zeebs, really?

This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them.

(Sorry for the long post, but there was a lot that went on while I was sleeping )

But how can we trust you?

Are you speaking for the baddies?

This has got to be the most confusing game I've ever played.

I'm sorry Zeebs, but this seems like such an act.

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

If I had to name the top zany people on this site (right now) it would be Matt, Wilgy, and Zebra.

But you are right in that Zebra is extra zany this game. I am going to go ahead and vote that way. ZEBRA

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip?

B/c DB was talking about how we don;t have to trust mafia to carry out his plan. We just react to their kill. If they kill an element, we vote an element. If they kill a civ, we lynch a person who we think could be Mafia. He kept saying, we don;t have to trust mafia for this. And then Zebra asks (paraphrasing here), how do we know we can trust YOU? I read it as coming from a baddie speaking for the mafia. How can the mafia trust that the civs will vote an element instead of a supposed baddie if the mafia does kill an element. Does that make sense? This is my main reason for voting zebra.

The theme that "Zebra is zany and zany is bad" continues with Elohcin, and I remain uninspired. There are always people goofing around in Mafia games or being otherwise "zany" and they can come from any alignment. I need these voters to explain they felt Zebra's "zaniness" in this game was more indicative that it would generally be in your average randomly selected Mafia game. Beyond that, I've highlighted another comment made and pushed by Elohcin. She asserted that Zebra's "how can we trust you?" directed at DrumBeats was a baddie slip. I think this is a highly dubious assertion.

That'd be to say that Zebra literally forgot she was posting in the public game thread and asked a self-exposing question. It wouldn't be a "slip", it'd practically be a claim. I don't think brand new players would make that mistake, let alone an experienced player like Zebra. I struggle to believe Elohcin really buys this accusation.

~~~

Nerolunar (5th vote)

Spoiler: show

This game looks interesting.

It really does.

I will be voting for fetch.

No one died on Night 1?

I don't understand why a number of people are suspecting me. I'll probably vote for DrumBeats today.

Because your confusion is so overblown its actually a little hilarious. Epi´s posts have been explaining everything so far and your confusion makes it look like you aren´t following or don´t care. I won´t feel shame voting for you later.

I think Drumbeats´ idea is too risky. The mafia will be too busy trying to weed out civilians and can coordinate better when a situation arises where the option to deal with the Process becomes the only choice. I think we lose more thna we gain, because the mafia will try to kill some civilians along the way, too. Just my two cents.

Voting Zebra.


Its anti-town at best. At least Wilgy is purposedly funny.

This bears a similar appearance to DFaraday's pre-vote justification. The portion I highlighted has the same sort of pre-emptive victim-blaming appearance I mentioned before. The theme here is that Zebra received this vote because her posts made it appear as though she wasn't dedicated to early involvement and that's all that needs to be said. This strikes me as a curious mindset and vote justification because pretty much every Mafia game has at least somebody playing in a "zany" or otherwise unusual manner as I said above. I don't get the impression there was an effort to interact with Zebra and discern her motives, there were just critical comments and votes. That's not ideal.

~~~

DrumBeats (6th vote)

Spoiler: show

But how can we trust you?

Explain this sentence.

How in any way do we need to trust the mafia for this plan? We will only act after we know they did. No trust. Just a mutual enemy. If we ignore the Process, it will win. Don't be blind here guys.

Seriously, I never said we shouldn't scumhunt. I just said we should take out elements of the process too, and proposed that we do it if and only if mafia shoots one instead of one of us. I'm getting scumread for trying to save civ lives and help us achieve our win con rn. Like what the hell.

We know the elements are targettable due to the cheerleader's description:

Cheerleader- Protect a Process element from all Night actions. Vote is worth 1.

Night actions can be used on them. If and only if scum takes advantage of this, then we should take advantage of our ability to lynch them, which is suggested by Cell being on the lynch votes.

The fact that the Process responded to me that he doesn't like this is clear that I'm onto something as far as how the mechanics of it work.

and @Eloch - That's exactly what I was thinking. I wouldn't be opposed to a zebra lynch as of now. I can't think of any motivation for that sentence other than making we mean scum and you mean town. Trusting me personally has no effect on the logic of said plan.

Once again since few people are acknowledging this: My plan only applies after the scum shoots an element first. The plan in no way is a "lets hunt the process while the mafia kills us" its a "hey mafia, you should kill an element instead of us, and if you do we will lynch an element too. We both need the process dead, so while we have the man power it would be best to take care of it early.

By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though?

By allowing us to hit them when the time comes. I guarantee you at least one of those is something that keeps them safe. If we cut off the Process's power it won't be able to hurt us as much later. Also, if you look at the cheerleader it says that it's vote is worth one. I'm worried that the process will get more votes the longer we wait. We've got nothing to lose, assuming mafia targets them and not a civ first.

And in regards to your more recent post, there really is not anything to further this. My only thought on it is that if we do not agree to the terms as a town, I doubt the mafia will target the Process because they would not trust us to keep up our end. Hence why I've been pushing the idea, hoping to save us from a civ shot tonight.

Also, MP, what are your thoughts on Zebra and the potential scumslip I mentioned?

I'll respond with some more reads in a second but my primary one is scum!Zebra

Here are the reads I have atm:

Town reads/leans:
MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion
Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia"
JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc.

Null reads:
DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this
Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here.

Scum reads/leans:
Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now.
Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit.

Dependent read:
Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question.

I don't have much time to post but wanted to put in my vote before I'm gone for 5 hours.

Vote: Zebra

DrumBeats also pressed the notion that Zebra might have "slipped". I am doubtful enough about this mindset that I'm inclined to view anyone who espoused it with at least some suspicion. I just don't understand why that post by Zebra had to indicate that she slipped, or even how that thought can be viewed as a reasonable assertion. I can understand someone throwing that accusation at Zebra to get a reaction, but for it to be a sustained angle of suspicion and motivate a vote fully or in part is something else. DrumBeats will need to answer for this.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In summary I think there's a valid reason to suspect nearly everyone in the Zebra wagon. The only vote that I don't find especially troubling is Matt's. I am sure not everyone else in that wagon is a baddie, so it's important that everyone involved say their piece and enable a fuller conversation.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What's striking about the progression of the tally is that there wasn't a great deal of spread. Only two people voted for someone other than Zebra and Elohcin (Zebra being one of them, the other agleaminranks). That smaller Matt wagon sprang up before the Elohcin wagon did too, so it's not as though that's an "off-wagon" paradise. With this in mind the dynamic between the two major wagons can largely define Day 1 and how players can be read now.

It's also important to distinguish that the two major wagons did not function as countering wagons often would -- one sprang up and blew up entirely before the other one sprang up and blew up. The Elohcin wagon can be viewed as a counterwagon to Zebra, but the Zebra wagon shouldn't be viewed as a counterwagon to Elohcin. It can perhaps be viewed as a counterwagon to Matt, but that's a reach. This is something to keep in mind moving forward.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In the immediate present my strongest suspicion remains on Elohcin. When time permits I'll look into the other players who voted away from Zebra too.

[nutella]

ok, sorry I have not been here, just caught up but it is kinda a blur. RIP zebra and sig.

MP, your reasons for suspecting me seem to be mostly the fact that I found Elo and Drum suspicious and that my "relatively strong diction" or whatever. Idk man I was just expressing my reaction to their posts and found them suspicious. After Drum explained what he meant a bit more clearly I don't really suspect him as much, but I've been finding Elo to be more suspicious and it looks like she was sort of evasive yesterday so I will be looking at her today. I haven't gotten particular pings from anyone else but I'm interested in hearing more from Illy, Nero, and Llama.

[kneel4justice]

Hi everyone!
I haven't played mafia in nearly 6 months, I think? I used to be addicted, lol. I'm excited to be back!
Sorry to have missed you Zebra (I was really hoping to get to play with you again) and Sig.

I've been reading/skimming the game as it happened for the most part, so I'll see if I can get some of my thoughts posted tonight (no promises though).

[kneel4justice]

Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

[kneel4justice]

Also - is there a gender guide somewhere or can someone give me one? I'm struggling lol

[DFaraday]

When did Day 1 votes become such serious business around here? I recall a time when half the field would randomize on Day 1 and nobody thought it weak, when Jason Maher would vote himself every Day 1 and nobody complained, and actually having a substantial reason for voting that early was unusual. Did something change, or am I severely misremembering, because I still don't approach Day 1 with that much analysis.

I would also note that MP says there is no reason for a baddie to act the way Zebra was, which may be true (though I think baddies can play intentionally obtuse in thread to avoid committing to anything). However, I would ask what reason a baddie specifically would have for giving such a throwaway reason for voting someone. I don't think it's a stretch to say that civvies vote for lame reasons just as much as baddies, and I really don't see how a weak voting reason is alignment-indicative at all.

If you want to say my vote was weaksauce, fine, it kind of was, but it doesn't make me bad.

EBWOP: K4J, for the longest time your avi was a source of gender confusion for me.

[DFaraday]

Lame.

Who did you want to lynch sig?

Yeah MP, I kind of kept up with the thread, but didn't write a great big post.
I noticed Zebra's cheerleader/blondieness and was surprised it took so long for someone to point it out, I think Matt's NO U vote and then explanation was really weird. Eloh and Matt went back and forth and I got nothing from it. I'm null on MP he seems really eager and I'm not sure if that is his civ self or not. I think at least one or two mafia members voted for Zebra she was an easy lynch button and I think people took advantage of that.

If I had to pick between Eloh and Zebra I'd have picked Eloh. However, if I could pick anyone it would be Wilgy for trying to get me lynched when I was silenced.

This makes me think that one of the Zebra voters (yes, I know that includes me) likely killed Sig. I'll go over their posts in the morning.

[kneel4justice]

When did Day 1 votes become such serious business around here? I recall a time when half the field would randomize on Day 1 and nobody thought it weak, when Jason Maher would vote himself every Day 1 and nobody complained, and actually having a substantial reason for voting that early was unusual. Did something change, or am I severely misremembering, because I still don't approach Day 1 with that much analysis.

I would also note that MP says there is no reason for a baddie to act the way Zebra was, which may be true (though I think baddies can play intentionally obtuse in thread to avoid committing to anything). However, I would ask what reason a baddie specifically would have for giving such a throwaway reason for voting someone. I don't think it's a stretch to say that civvies vote for lame reasons just as much as baddies, and I really don't see how a weak voting reason is alignment-indicative at all.

If you want to say my vote was weaksauce, fine, it kind of was, but it doesn't make me bad.

EBWOP: K4J, for the longest time your avi was a source of gender confusion for me.

Personally, I have always been the type to take my votes seriously. I acknowledge that not everyone feels the same way. So, this response does give me something to think about...somehow it reads as genuine.
That being said, I do still believe there were people taking advantage of Zebra, and even though it was D1, there were reasons to pause in voting for Zebra (the cheerleader thing) and the fact that was ignored by you doesn't sit well with me. That combined with what felt like a serious D1 atmosphere, I just felt there was enough to actually attempt on D1 rather than dismiss it. It might be down to personal style. For now I will just be keeping an eye out.

Also, I often associate icons with gender too...which is strange considering mine don't match lol whoops!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When did Day 1 votes become such serious business around here? I recall a time when half the field would randomize on Day 1 and nobody thought it weak, when Jason Maher would vote himself every Day 1 and nobody complained, and actually having a substantial reason for voting that early was unusual. Did something change, or am I severely misremembering, because I still don't approach Day 1 with that much analysis.

Something apparently changed, and thank goodness for that. The Day 1 you're describing sounds abysmal.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Going through some more ISOs from people who voted anywhere other than Zebra.

agleaminranks

Spoiler: show

I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit.

Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick.

Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed.
The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section.
It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess.
My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow?

So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon.

I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike.

Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too.

agleam was probably the player most staunchly opposed to the baddies/townies bargain proposed by DrumBeats. He goes to good lengths to explain his perspective and my immediate inclination is to think he misinterpreted DrumBeats's proposition (primarily overlooking the detail that it'd require waiting for the baddies to make the first move) instead of something more nefarious i.e. a baddie trying to collective civilian credit by yelling about a controversial idea.

If there's something suspicious about this post it'd be the bit I highlighted, merely because it's quite a waffle on DrumBeats. agleam seems to cover a wide portion of the reads spectrum here, suggesting that DrumBeats' plan is pro-baddie, but it isn't suspicious, but he could be vote-worthy, but he might not deserve that. Numerous caveats. That's a read I'd like you to restate now please, agleam: what do you think of DrumBeats in the immediate present?

Spoiler: show

As an aside: DrumBeats' plan is a terrible idea, but I don't think it's because he's bad.

I have to dash off to work and will be gone for the voting period.

Matt. I think your criticisms of zebra and Elo are both crazy and misplaced and I dislike your actions so far. Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing and I'm reading Elo as a helpful civilian right now. You get my vote today.

This is his vote for Matt, supported by an perspective that on Day 1 was quite unique and unpopular. He didn't like Matt's Zebra vote, which was mildly unpopular on Day 1 at least from the crowd who didn't partake in it, and he defended Elohcin as a civilian read. I at least appreciate that agleam is willing to take stances that weren't en vogue. A free thinker who vocalizes his unpopular opinions is more often a town trait than a baddie trait I think.

Spoiler: show

These zebra votes are seriously ridiculously suspicious at face value. If you all can't recognize that, then I don't know what to say.

Effin' seriously. There was nothing to be gotten out of zebra's posting yesterday. I don't know if she was insanified or just out of it for this game. Maybe both are likely.

That wasn't a good lynch at all, she was obviously cursed or something and Wilgy why did you push to lynch me when I couldn't talk.

sig, I'm not sure if I buy that you were silenced. I know some sort of night action was in place, but I highly doubt that both you were silenced and zebra was insanified. If you read my analysis of what I think the Process' element for the time was, I don't know if it's possible for the mafia to do both so quickly. I'm just not taking it. Either zebra was insanified or you were silenced, not both. Given that poor zebra flipped civilian you're not looking too hot to me.

It seems to me like the nighttime vote is to reveal one of the Process' elements? A reasonable use of the nighttime I think.

This is perhaps WIFOM, but I kind of doubt agleam would throw all this shade at sig and then promptly kill him as a baddie. That's a nice look.

~~~

I think he looks okay for the most part. I made one point that I'd like him to address related to the highlighted content in the first post.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

AllAlongTheBoardwalk

Spoiler: show

Was this revealed before? Or did it pop up after Night 0?

Farrah Yon-Dale
Switch ( )- Others might fear The Process, but you have something for that. Switch one element of The Process each Night, and you will have control over it the next Day.

I suggested earlier in the game that I thought it was a nice look that AATB was paying close enough attention to the developments in the OP to notice this before anyone else (at least before anyone said it).

Spoiler: show

Well, that was a lot to read...skimmed some of it there, but I'm mostly caught up now.

I think JaggedJimmyJay and MovingPictures07 are good. I like the back and forth discussion, even if it ends up creating way more content than I want to read, and I'm taking DB's word that he was being sarcastic and tabling that discussion.

As for my vote, I'm leaning Wigly just because of his (or her?) weird behavior. And I'm not super experienced by any means, but I see no good reasoning for calling yourself mafia. Playing weird or 'fake' outing yourself because its funny isn't an adequate defense of this to me.

Thoughts on this? As of now that's where my vote is, but I will consider alternatives.

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

So because you interpret this behavior to be within zebra's meta, but Wilgy's is in within meta, then zebra's behavior being "weird" makes her worthy of your vote? How is that logical at all?

Weird DOES NOT EQUAL suspicious. Can anyone actually explain to me the mafia motivation behind zebra's actions?

Just saw this.
I agree that weird doesn't mean someone is bad. But is also easily used as an excuse. If someone says they're mafia, I need more reason than he's being silly to not vote for them.

I bring up this post because of the highlighted portion. AATB or anyone else who might know: about how many Mafia games have you played before? I'll hold my thoughts about these two posts until an answer is provided.

Spoiler: show

Vote: Elohcin

It's late, I need to vote. And I somewhat trust the opinions of yourself and moving pictures. Jumping on this train and voting ]Vote: Elohcin as well.

He followed two of his town reads for his vote, which is a nice show of team work if he's town. Given that I am also suspicious of Elohcin, I think this is a decent look. Perhaps it'd be better if he took more personal ownership over his vote, but I'd say the ramifications of that are more dependent upon Elohcin's alignment.

Spoiler: show

I guess my real question here is: how would a vote by the Cell for a player possibly be construed as that player being the process? What's the game-logic behind such a move?

This reads genuinely to me and suggests that AATB is not the Process.

~~~

I have no immediate beefs with AATB. The points in his favor are relatively minor, so I hope to see an uptick in his rate of contribution to substantiate that read better.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DrWilgy

Spoiler: show

I'm mafia and I decline your offer Drum.

Prior to this post, Doc was primarily goofing around. He did take some stances (called sig bad, Matt good, and MP bad), but it's hard to tell how serious he is. This post itself is a WIFOMburger and I not inclined to take a bite. I think any manifestation of DrWilgy is capable of saying this and my read will be focused on other content.

Spoiler: show

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

DF, you hurt me!

;__;

I reccomend everyone stop voting Zebra. The easiest lynch day 1 is never mafia. 4 vote lead? Only 1.5 players actively opposing said lynch? Other options mentioned are Eloh and Matt? Perhaps DB? Yet Matt's the only other with votes on him?

Hey Eloh, compare Matt's actions this game to mine in Spirited Away for me. How do these compare?

Don't lynch Zebra she's my teammate.

Doc spoke out against the Zebra lynch before the Eloh counterwagon developed, suggesting that Zebra was "the easiest lynch" available on Day 1. I don't really disagree with that. Given that he spoke out like this and later contributed to the Eloh wagon himself, it could be said that he was a driving force in the attempt to prevent the Zebra lynch. The ramifications of that are probably dependent upon Eloh's alignment.

Spoiler: show

Hmm... Baddies tend to list thier teammates along with others when doing comparisons. If Eloh is bad, I'm thinking Nutella is as well.

Over the latter half of Day 1, Doc was providing relevant posts and he appeared to be hunting. This isn't always typical of him, but I don't really see him as one of those players whose meta can be reduced to "try = bad, don't try = good". With that in mind I am inclined to judge his hunting purely at face value, and I think he displays a good mindset for interactive reading.

Spoiler: show

JJJ plz GTH Niju for me.

At one point Doc suggested he had a null/GTH baddie read on me, after he pressed me with a few GTH reads. I thought that was a good look for him, that he jumped at me like that to create some pressure before saying why -- it bears the appearance of a genuine attempt to learn more about me and to generate interactive content from me.

Spoiler: show

Regardless of gut feeling. I gave Eloh until the hour was here, and that time is up.

Crazy Cake Lady

Linki - unknown. GTH me?

His vote went to Elohcin (the 1st of her 5 votes) which facilitated the generation of a viable counterwagon to the previously dominating Zebra wagon. I think that's a decent look.

Spoiler: show

At the very least this has closed the gap and left the remaining voters in a more pressured position.

I too am interested to see what my scumm8s will do.

Doc is a fast food WIFOMburger joint in this game.

Spoiler: show

So... you are meaning to tell me that you were both silenced and vote locked?

That seems like some shit. Why would that have happened to you Sig?

Similar to agleam, I am not sure DrWilgy would throw all this shade at sig and then promptly kill him. Seems counterproductive.

~~~

Overall I think DrWilgy looks pretty good. He's a bucket of WIFOM, but I don't really care about that anyway.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MovingPictures07

Spoiler: show

In fact, I find it a bit dubious that anyone would fail to recognize The Process is (1) one role, and (2) independent, but I suppose it's possible if someone hasn't properly looked at the role listing.

So this in particular:

An Operator is usually conducting and controlling stuff. It might be the person behind the Process.

Im just brainstorming :P I don´t even know if the Process even is controlled by a person.

Strikes me as a bit over the top.

Not yet. You?

Not really. I do think Nero seemed a bit too confused about the game's setup, as I noted in a previous post, and sig seems to be deliberately playing with WIFOM more than usual, but I don't necessarily think those observations make either player worthy of any suspicion.

I highlight these posts together because I think there's an inconsistency. The first post shows MP mildly accusing Nero based upon his [mis]understanding of the Process role, and the second seems to deny that it was actual suspicion. MP you should qualify this.

Spoiler: show

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

I'm confused at your confusion.

This isn't really an "accusation", but it could be perceived as something close. I highlight it to follow the development of MP's treatment of Zebra/the Zebra lynch.

Spoiler: show

zebra and Matt, please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning.

Now we're all left in a position where we have to determine the motivation behind zebras's actions, and she has made herself a potential hot button mislynch if she is town, or is blatantly acting in an anti-town fashion if she is mafia.

If your intention was reaction baiting, I think there could have been other ways to accomplish this rather than cast a meaningless vote in a game with nonchangeable votes.

This post represents an acknowledgment by MP of a potential town and an anti-town mindset to describe Zebra's behavior.

Spoiler: show

This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them.

zebra and Matt, please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning.

Um whatevs.

It was like, 3:00 am last night and I was dead tired, Zeebs votes me and says "wait isn't day supposed to end????" and I read that and start trippin' cuz I'm wondering if there are some kind of "end the day early" shenanis going on, so yeah, I NO U'd the shit out of her "random" vote because I was trippin'.

In retrospect, if there was "end the day early" shenanis going on, and by Zeebs, then that would mean she's probably civ because usually civs hold that power, I believe.

But again, whatevs, I was tired, I was trippin', I voted dat Zebra.

So do you think she's bad or not? I'm unclear on that.

MP pressed Matt for his Zebra vote. This displays an effort by MP to better understand the earliest developments that would become the Zebra wagon.

Spoiler: show

I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit.

Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick.

Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed.
The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section.
It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess.
My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow?

So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon.

I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike.

Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too.

Good thoughts here, thanks for your contributions regarding The Process. I'm inclined to agree.

So, just so I understand you correctly regarding your reads: You're town reading "the few actives" (who is that exactly?) and you have mafia reads on Elo and DrumBeats for their thoughts on the proposal but minor ones, yeah?

What do you make of anyone else, anything?

I think it's a decent look that MP pressed agleam for more specificity in his stated reads. Later in the game this kind of thing can be beneficial when interactive reads are being explored because actual names will be present in agleam's posts instead of the vaguer umbrella terms, or at least that's the idea if he answers it. It doesn't appear he did unless I'm missing it, so that's something agleam could account for now.

Spoiler: show

Thanks DB, I feel better about you now that you've expanded your thoughts on it, and I think your insistence in getting people to comprehend and consider your idea is town-minded, even if I'm still not personally sold on it.

Wait, I must have missed something though with respect to Zebra. Potential scumslip? My bad, I don't remember you saying anything like that.

I think this is a believable progression for MP's read on DrumBeats -- DB made the controversial proposal and MP a good amount of time and posts talking about it with him getting clarifications, and he allowed that discussion to have a meaningful impact upon his read. I think that if a baddie wants to, he/she wouldn't struggle much to shade a town!DrumBeats for that proposal simply because of what it was (the notion that town and baddies could work together on anything at all).

Large post containing first rainbow list

Humorously, my first thought at a glance is "too many nulls", which is the first thing MP says after the list. So many nulls isn't terribly inspiring, though on the starting half of Day 1 I suppose it could be honest. The more important content here is in the expanded reads rather than the rainbow itself. I'll highlight some of it to talk about in isolation.

Spoiler: show

a2thezebra, DrWilgy, and Matt are all in a similar category to me right now of WTF/???/Null, because they seem to playing outwardly in a way that could be considered anti-town, but I know better about all of them than to believe that such behavior is alignment indicative. I wish zebra would get her head in the game and address some concerns though, and I'd like to see some more from Wilgy and Matt. I don't know what to make of zebra and Matt's votes being cast already, frankly. I could vote for any of these three, maybe, if they fail to contribute anything else during d1 and I don't have any other even remotely confident mafia reads.

MP assembled this "WTF/???/Null" pile with Zebra, Wilgy, and Matt. I'm not sure why Matt needs to be lumped in there but the other two were regarded that way by most I think. The yellow highlighted portion reiterates MP's stance that Zebra's behavior shouldn't be perceived as alignment-indicative, perhaps a precursor to his current more emotive admonishments.

The orange bit though is contrary to that current mindset MP has adopted -- he said he "could vote for any of these three, maybe..." which would include Zebra. It can be argued whether this constitutes "support" for the lynch, but it's definitely not resistance to it. This is perhaps the most suspicious moment of MP's posts so far and it's something he'll need to answer for.

Spoiler: show

I would consider Elohcin a candidate for my final vote. I do think her treatment of Matt was rather restrictive and it didn't really indicate that she was trying to figure him out -- rather it looked like she took an immediate stance and perhaps even Matt's bait. I'm also not convinced by her response to my assertion that she was a little overzealously interested in DrumBeats's proposal. I've said that this was a unique circumstance which poses a unique reactive challenge to the baddie team. I think it's more believable for people to express at least a little bit of honest paranoia/doubt before easing into the idea. She's responded to that accusation, but I'm not entirely inspired.

How is Elo's treatment of Matt different than mine? I'm genuinely curious as to your train of thought here.

MP at first seemed unconvinced of people's suspicions of Elohcin, and he pressed me to expand on my own. I think this reflects his desire to substantiate his read on both Elohcin and on me simultaneously, which is a nice look.

Spoiler: show

A question for everyone:

Why has there be consideration that Wilgy is cursed (from Elo), but no consideration that zebra is cursed, from anyone other than Matt? I find his "cheerleader" theory more believeable than Wilgy's behavior being forced or fabricated.

I haven't fully caught up yet so perhaps I've just not hit it yet. But why does zebra have votes exactly? The only person that has explained a suspicion of her as far as I've seen is DrumBeats.

MP joins the "curse" discussion, suggesting it makes more sense to apply that logic to Zebra than to DrWilgy.

Spoiler: show

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip?

MP's read on Elohcin deteriorated from positive to negative as the day progressed. I think it's noteworthy in this case that the shift is inspired by Elohcin's treatment of Zebra. MP is becoming more vocally defensive of Zebra at this point, though perhaps not directly (instead indirectly by means of criticizing her opponents).

Spoiler: show

Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing

It indicates that Zebra is playing in an unhelpful manner to the town, at least.

*votes Zebra*

So we're just going to policy lynch her and not discuss anything else?

I thought I brought meaningful content to the discussion regarding nutella, and literally NO ONE has commented on it, or anything else I've said about zebra. Why does it seem like no one gives a shit whether zebra is town or not?

This is nonsense.

All six of zebra's voters, with perhaps the exception of DrumBeats: You're suspicious, regardless of zebra's alignment.

zebra was the easy button lynch today. This is stupid. None of you even discussed anything else that I or others have brought to the table, and you've failed to explore other angles and bring them to the table yourself. To pull an Epi, I hate to say that this is a shameful display.

MP's displeasure with the Zebra lynch is clear before its resolution.

Linking this post to prevent a spoiler within a spoiler

MP did try to move the lynch toward someone other than Zebra, primarily by pressing his suspicion of nutella and trying to get immediate feedback on it. This never really materialized.

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #2

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
JaggedJimmyJay
nijuukyugou

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DrWilgy
Matt
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
DFaraday
Elohcin
Illyria
Nerolunar
nutella

Second rainbow addresses the "too much null" problem nicely.

Spoiler: show

The glove compartment isn't accurately named...

If Eloh doesn't answer before an hour remains I'll vote her. How does that sound y'all?

Works for me. I'll hold off for now. I firmly believe there is at least one mafia within four of the six votes so far on zebra (except for DrumBeats and Matt, not sure there).

My preferred lynch is Elohcin.

Let's do it then. CFD Elohcin.

VOTES ELOHCIN

MP is willing to join DrWilgy on the Eloh counterwagon and presses me to do the same. I obliged. I think we can say that MP did make an effort to lynch someone other than Zebra. Overcoming a lead of 6 votes I think it was is not an easy task as close to EOD as we were, but in the end we actually did come within one vote. So it wasn't a wasted or pointless effort.

Spoiler: show

Dammit. RIP zebra.

Most of you zebra voters have some explaining to do. Please respond to my concerns at your convenience.

I'm out. Got more database building to do. See you all during Day 2... hopefully.

Linki w/ sig: Hello there! So you were silenced, huh? What are your thoughts on what transpired today?

Fucking hell.

I voted for her because at the time that was my top suspish. I am so sorry Zebra.

Mp, regarding your statement about LA. I can pick up what you are putting down, but I would like some more from her before I get all lynch happy. Okay?

Since it is possible that what we vote during the night can/ will impact someone during the day this is going to make it extra tricky. Especially with several "zany" players to begin with....

But why was she your top suspicion? I don't really understand what compelled so many of you to equate "weird" to suspicious. Look where it's led us. I've seen game after game soiled because people think that behavior that can be construed as "weird" is somehow indicative of mafia motivation. Unless you can point to specific posts by zebra and explain to me that she had been acting in a way that was far and above more indicative of her potentially being mafia than everyone else, I consider the vote to be a policy lynch. And such votes should be viewed with heavy suspicion.

Why is it that you would like some more time for LA but you didn't give that same leniency to zebra? Why the double standard? Are you protecting a teammate?

Again, I'm not trying to be rude, but the fact that a handful of players just outright lynched zebra for acting "weird" is weaksauce, and I intend to take every step necessary to uncover the people who have it out for me and the rest of town, because that's part of the game. I'm not trying to imply that any of you are anything BUT capable of great play. Because you are.

In the future, I hope that you all consider that "weird" almost never equates to suspicious unless you have specific reason for believing that player has a more likely chance for their behavior to be motivated by a mafia role card than a townie role card. I did not see any alignment-specific motivation for zebra. In many games over the years, I've very seldom seen one of these Day 1 policy lynches for someone acting "weird" actually catch a mafia member. Furthermore, it makes it difficult to discern the intentions of everyone who voted for zebra in an attempt to uncover whether any of them are mafia or not. It's almost as difficult as discerning the intentions behind a randomized or self vote.

I've been following the development of MP's treatment of Zebra with a mind for the fact that it has led to posts like these. MP is highly critical of the Zebra wagon and it's important to judge whether his behavior prior to the Zebra lynch is adequate to foretell this mindset. I agree in principle with MP that the Zebra lynch was not great -- it struck me as uninspired and quite easy.

~~~

MP's sheer effort in this game so far has been rather meteoric. He has dominated the post count from the start, even leaving me in the dust to this point. That's a rare feat. I think he proved in the scrimmage though that effort alone is not enough to earn him a town read, and that his content needs to be critically assessed continually to maximize our chances of figuring him out. I feel that his content in this game so far has been mostly of a positive reflection, and that there's a visible and followable progression in his treatment of Zebra to foretell his current mindset. However, I did find the one discrepancy I noted and I would like MP to address that point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nijuukyugou

Spoiler: show

Wait how is it STILL Day 1?

How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit.

Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win.

This is snipped from a larger post. She asserted that Zebra's behavior was "weird as shit", but didn't make a definitive accusation. I'll follow the progression.

Her comment @DrumBeats strikes me as a misconstruing of what he was proposing. This came after he reiterated/restated his idea to emphasize that it required no actual trust of the baddie team (because it required them to make the first move). I'm not sure what trust nijuu was suggesting had to exist for this plan to function. I don't know whether that means anything, but it's something nijuu can talk about and perhaps that'll substantiate any resulting read.

Spoiler: show

MP, you've literally added a page since I started reading this evening! Slow down! :P

I just wanted to say that before I make a more substantial post. And also I'm here to talk things out for a bit, hooray! I'm definitely not inclined towards the zebra lynch, though - reminds me too much of my Day 1 mislynch in Futurama

GAHHHH STOP WITH THE LINKI

She was opposed to the Zebra lynch towards the end of the day phase. The validity of the point she makes is dependent upon the circumstances of Futurama Day 1. I'd appreciate it if anyone who played in that game could briefly describe this to me so I can judge the parallel being drawn.

Spoiler: show

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

She mused about the possibility that Zebra was somehow forced to behave the way she was, either in her own role or because of the Process. There's a little waffling here (in the form of "part of me/more of me") which isn't terribly inspiring. It can at least be said though that that imbalance amounts to some manner of a stance.

Spoiler: show

Who hasn't yet voted and is currently around?

Me!

For whom are you considering a vote?

Not zebra or Matt. Strongly leaning Eloh because her posts and responses have been inconsistent at best, and disingenuous at worst (especially regarding "not knowing" how Wilgy acted in Spirited Away, thinking Wilgy was cursed, focusing on Matt's weirdness but no one else's, etc. I don't buy it). However, I really really REALLY also want to vote a super low-poster. So many baddies hide on Days 1, and I'm itching to find someone doing so to encourage more speaking and less hiding (and really, less of the "you're acting weird; let's lynch YOU!" attitude that occurs so much early on). Problem is, quietness would be the only thing I'd have to go off of, and a crapshoot isn't what I want either. Conundrum, alas.

And yourself?

LOL @ Linki - Seems Wilgy's on my level. Dunno what to think of that :P

Gotta do the interview thing. Voting Eloh. Two reasons?

1) Posts have appeared disingenuous, as stated beforehand. See other postings.
2) Her vote on zebra is the easy way out, and the explanation (regarding a "slip" that I don't agree happened) smells. She's not the only one to blame for this (really, I don't agree with any of the votes on zebra), but these in combination earn her my vote.

Now, off to successful question-answering!

Linki - Whoa, seriously. The mind-meld. It's freaking me, out, maaaaaaaaan

Towards the end of the day phase she reiterated her distaste for a Zebra lynch and proposed her preferred alternatives (Elohcin or a low poster). In the end she placed her vote on Eloh (2nd).

~~~

This is a tougher read I think. In terms of tone I am not perturbed by her, but there are some points that make me . Like some others, this read might be somewhat dependent upon Elohcin's alignment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella

Spoiler: show

OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

Her first few posts are related to the theme and her unique knowledge of it; this is her first reads-relevant contribution. She wasn't interested in DrumBeats's proposal and also suspected him to some degree for it. She expressed a desire to vote for either him or Elohcin. She ended up missing the vote.

Spoiler: show

ok, sorry I have not been here, just caught up but it is kinda a blur. RIP zebra and sig.

MP, your reasons for suspecting me seem to be mostly the fact that I found Elo and Drum suspicious and that my "relatively strong diction" or whatever. Idk man I was just expressing my reaction to their posts and found them suspicious. After Drum explained what he meant a bit more clearly I don't really suspect him as much, but I've been finding Elo to be more suspicious and it looks like she was sort of evasive yesterday so I will be looking at her today. I haven't gotten particular pings from anyone else but I'm interested in hearing more from Illy, Nero, and Llama.

This is the only following substantive post. I don't know that there's much to be drawn from this.

~~~

nutella is a null read. I need more content to be able to make a conclusive judgment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

thellama73

Spoiler: show

All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

He provided a couple quick stances, both positive for MP and DrumBeats. It's a minor point, but at least it appears he was playing loosely by the standards of someone with 6 posts.

Spoiler: show

I also think JJJ might be mafia. Discuss.

I'd still like an explanation for this.

Spoiler: show

I've seen too many good civs die because they wanted to be silly. I doubt that Zebra or Wilgy are planning anything nefarious.

He voiced his disinterest in the Zebra lynch. He missed the vote though.

~~~

Similarly to nutella, there's really not enough content to make a conclusive judgment.

------------------

reywaS / kneel4justice

Spoiler: show

Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

This is quite a substantive post, and it came approximately one hour after his initial post after replacing in. That would seem to indicate that he spent real time reviewing this thread, taking notes, and coming up with content to provide. That's a nice look for a guy that just joined the game. I will challenge one point made here, the one I highlighted. I don't know that it makes sense to assert the Zebra wagoners were avoiding an Elohcin lynch, because the Elohcin counterwagon did not develop until the Zebra wagon had already reached its peak.

~~~

It's a nice start, but there's still too little to judge. Thanks for joining us, kneel4justice.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

*brain melts*

That'll be quite enough for now.

[Elohcin]

Continuing the previous exercise:

Elohcin (4th vote)

Spoiler: show

I just finished watching Angel. I'm curious Illyria, is your name taken from the demon of the same name from that show?

Oops! I randomized and got Matt!

Sorry Matt!

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

This tells me a few things. #1) You didn't read page one with the rules/roles/etc. #2) You didn't click on view results and see that no one else had voted yet before placing your randomized vote. #3) You most likely didn't read the thread before voting b/c if you had you would see we are not at EoD just from seeing the discussions on hand. #4) You don't care about helping civs to win this game.

Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

Um what?

I'm gonna vote Zebra because if there's some kind of "Day ends early" shenanis, I'd like to try and counter that asap.

Wow Zeebs, really?

This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them.

(Sorry for the long post, but there was a lot that went on while I was sleeping )

But how can we trust you?

Are you speaking for the baddies?

This has got to be the most confusing game I've ever played.

I'm sorry Zeebs, but this seems like such an act.

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

If I had to name the top zany people on this site (right now) it would be Matt, Wilgy, and Zebra.

But you are right in that Zebra is extra zany this game. I am going to go ahead and vote that way. ZEBRA

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip?

B/c DB was talking about how we don;t have to trust mafia to carry out his plan. We just react to their kill. If they kill an element, we vote an element. If they kill a civ, we lynch a person who we think could be Mafia. He kept saying, we don;t have to trust mafia for this. And then Zebra asks (paraphrasing here), how do we know we can trust YOU? I read it as coming from a baddie speaking for the mafia. How can the mafia trust that the civs will vote an element instead of a supposed baddie if the mafia does kill an element. Does that make sense? This is my main reason for voting zebra.

The theme that "Zebra is zany and zany is bad" continues with Elohcin, and I remain uninspired. There are always people goofing around in Mafia games or being otherwise "zany" and they can come from any alignment. I need these voters to explain they felt Zebra's "zaniness" in this game was more indicative that it would generally be in your average randomly selected Mafia game. Beyond that, I've highlighted another comment made and pushed by Elohcin. She asserted that Zebra's "how can we trust you?" directed at DrumBeats was a baddie slip. I think this is a highly dubious assertion.

That'd be to say that Zebra literally forgot she was posting in the public game thread and asked a self-exposing question. It wouldn't be a "slip", it'd practically be a claim. I don't think brand new players would make that mistake, let alone an experienced player like Zebra. I struggle to believe Elohcin really buys this accusation.

My two reasons for voting Zebra were that she was acting overly confused (not zany) and that she asked DB if "we can trust you". You talk as if her zaniness was my main reason when the fact that she is zany played no part in my decision.

[Nerolunar]

If I know myself well, Im going to believe in a case made tomorrow and bandwagon. Thats how it usually is for me at this stage. Im not proud, just saying.

Hold the phone. Why is that a bad thing?

You are preemptively setting yourself up for failure, but only becaused you defined the action as failure. Why?

Because I struggle forming independent reads in the beginning of a game and it bugs me. I think it is a bad thing that I must rely on other player´s cases.

At least I am able to reflect on this, I guess.

Ugh I just need to be better at mafia. 7 losses in a row have made me a little sour.

[dodo]

Target: a2thezebra

Processing...

[DrWilgy]

Cell! Talk to me bae

[Nerolunar]

It has 389 posts for some reason.

[nutella]

It has 389 posts for some reason.

It's a recycled sock

[dodo]

Cell! Talk to me bae

Scans DrWilgy

Results: Not a doctor.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Cell! Talk to me bae

Scans DrWilgy

Results: Not a doctor.

The following people are probably too new to The Syndicate to be familiar with this joke (correct me if I'm wrong):

agleaminranks
DrumBeats
Illyria
kneel4justice

Less likely to be the Process.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Actually it appears the three not named DrumBeats have been around a long time; they must have returned from a lengthy hiatus. Not sure how old that joke is.

[dodo]

Quote JaggedJimmyJay

The following people are probably too new to The Syndicate to be familiar with this joke (correct me if I'm wrong):

agleaminranks
DrumBeats
Illyria
kneel4justice

Less likely to be the Process.

How does our scan of DrWilgy correlate with who the Process is? You'd have to be under the assumption that we are the Process, and that assumption would be incorrect.

Scans JaggedJimmyJay

Results: Inconclusive.

[DrWilgy]

Cell, information request: last entry who are you reffering to as "we".

[Matt]

Hi thread! So I'm about 4 or 5 pages behind, and I'm still doing a catch up in another game, so I'll probably be back tonight with thoughts.

Feeling a little conflicted, but overall, I think Elo's still our best bet for next day.

Peace

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My two reasons for voting Zebra were that she was acting overly confused (not zany) and that she asked DB if "we can trust you". You talk as if her zaniness was my main reason when the fact that she is zany played no part in my decision.

The second-last post I included in that spoiler suggests otherwise:

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

If I had to name the top zany people on this site (right now) it would be Matt, Wilgy, and Zebra.

But you are right in that Zebra is extra zany this game. I am going to go ahead and vote that way. ZEBRA

I also stated why I harbor doubts about your response to Zebra's "can we trust you" comment. I think calling that a "slip" is a big reach and I struggle to believe the accusation was sincere.

[Epignosis]

An Unexpected Return

This is a general announcement that, in pursuant to a previously disseminated memorandum, MacDougall is replacing Illyria. A survey has gone out to the population that will gauge the popularity of his return. Results are expected next week.

Total replacements: 2

Comment? >_

[Matt]

Yeaaaah!!! Macdougall!

Despite my excitement, he'll probably form an allliance with Elo to P-lynch me.

[DrWilgy]

Amusing.

[DrumBeats]

OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

What nefarious intentions could the plan have? Elaborate. Look at the plan which, since the very beginning, was that we lynch a Process tomorrow if and only if the mafia kills one tonight. Tell me what nefarious intentions back up this scum read.

Nutella, now that you're back I need you to answer this.

[nutella]

Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.

[kneel4justice]

Has anyone else been having on/off trouble accessing this site? I've tried different browsers, clearing my internet history, etc. Nothing seems to be working & I'm not having this problem with any other websites.

[nijuukyugou]

nijuukyugou

Spoiler: show

Wait how is it STILL Day 1?

How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit.

Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win.

This is snipped from a larger post. She asserted that Zebra's behavior was "weird as shit", but didn't make a definitive accusation. I'll follow the progression.

Her comment @DrumBeats strikes me as a misconstruing of what he was proposing. This came after he reiterated/restated his idea to emphasize that it required no actual trust of the baddie team (because it required them to make the first move). I'm not sure what trust nijuu was suggesting had to exist for this plan to function. I don't know whether that means anything, but it's something nijuu can talk about and perhaps that'll substantiate any resulting read.

Argh. Now I understand how DrumBeats felt. I didn't misconstrue what he proposed, at least as far as I know. I know the plan was contingent upon the mafia acting first in civilian favor. I reiterate that even if this happened, it STILL requires trust in the mafia to do the back and forth, and for us to be on their side by lynching an element. They would still have to comply in lynching the element with us, too. But I suppose now that I think about it, it would be hard to hide if you chose not to vote along as an "agreement." Still, it's too risky, their team is too big, and there are too many unknowns at this point, especially at the point that the plan was proposed. Does that make sense? I don't blame him or think he's bad for suggesting the plan; I just don't think it's a good idea.

I'll post more substantially later tonight or tomorrow, but I did want to respond to that first.

Linki - The site's been kinda funky lately, at least for me, and I think others, as well, but tonight it's cooperating

[MacDougall]

Hello you cretins. I am on your side.

[kneel4justice]

reywaS / kneel4justice

Spoiler: show

Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

This is quite a substantive post, and it came approximately one hour after his initial post after replacing in. That would seem to indicate that he spent real time reviewing this thread, taking notes, and coming up with content to provide. That's a nice look for a guy that just joined the game. I will challenge one point made here, the one I highlighted. I don't know that it makes sense to assert the Zebra wagoners were avoiding an Elohcin lynch, because the Elohcin counterwagon did not develop until the Zebra wagon had already reached its peak.

~~~

It's a nice start, but there's still too little to judge. Thanks for joining us, kneel4justice.

See, when I had been reading the thread, I was initially suspicious of Eloh but it got to the point where quite a few people had been voicing suspicions on her (as far as I can remember this was before Zebra had really gained any attention) and it seemed the lynch was headed that way. I was wondering if I were actually wrong in my suspicion and the mafia was trying to push for her lynch. So when I suddenly saw things going towards Zebra, I felt like perhaps it had been because the mafia needed to find a second option to push for in order to avoid an Eloh lynch and I had actually been right at first. Then there is the possibility that they are both good and the mafia just did not want to all bandwagon on the same player. So, it is up in the air but I do stand by the possibility that the mafia was avoiding an Eloh lynch because she is their team member.

Linki Niju - Okay, thanks! I was wondering since no one else seemed to have mentioned it! Nice to know it isn't just me.

[Young Lady]

*brain melts*

That'll be quite enough for now.

Oh no, ones brain shouldn't melt.



This Young Lady believes the process should be eliminated, but to trust the mafia would be unwise.

[Marmot]

Hullo Macdingus.

[Elohcin]

Yeaaaah!!! Macdougall!

Despite my excitement, he'll probably form an allliance with Elo to P-lynch me.

Ooo, what a good idea! What do you say Mac?

[MacDougall]

He does seem bad tbh

[thellama73]

JJJ has done nothing to ameliorate my distrust in him. It started off as a hunch, but doing ISOs on every single player on Day 2 is trying way too hard to appear helpful. I don't buy it, good sirs. I don't buy it one bit.

[thellama73]

I'm glad McDougall is here. He can usually see through the nonsense. The Cell reads JJJ as inconclusive. Is that not suspicious to anyone else?