Street Fighter II Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Tangrowth]

MP Rainbow List #4 - Night 1

Moderate Town
Long Con
speedchuck

Slight Town
DFaraday
Diiny
dunya
Elohcin
malakim2099
nijuukyugou
Simon
Sloonei

Slight Mafia
DrWilgy
JaggedJimmyJay

Moderate Mafia
Jackofhearts2005

Strong Mafia
Dom

I make such a liar out of myself. Just had to update this rainbow for clarity to reflect recent developments. Threw malakim into slight town based pretty much on a gut-based assessment of his recent attempts to get grounded into the game. Also moved Diiny and dunya down to slight town given that I need updates from them.

Night, all. Keep the thread active.

[malakim2099]

I highly suspect I'm going to be silenced, which is why I wanted to keep current with this thread until deadline. Pursue and interrogate everyone. I won't be back until the Day and hopefully I'll be able to post, but I'm not holding my breath.

malakim, I also wanted to say I appreciate your elaboration and recent efforts to get grounded into the game. I'd move you up to neutral because for now you've addressed the concerns I've had.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I freely admit that at HCR, we have a way too heavy reliance on night powers as townies, and I want to shake off those bad habits. Which is why I decided to give this a try.

Really, I should run a vanilla game over there to try and mix things up a bit. Haven't had one of those in a LONG time.

[Dom]

Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.

lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you.

[Dom]

suspects:
-mp
-jay
-jack of hearts

[Dom]

Long Con-- other than MP-- who is bad?

[Jackofhearts2005]

One last post for now.

@Jackofhearts2005

How is it "fake" and "analysis"? There really isn't any analysis in there. Diiny asked me a question about who I would name as scum. At the time, I felt very unsure about any scum reads. I explained this at length. There's no analysis there. Either you believe my musings or you don't. So do you?

There are flames to be fanned -- Sloonei almost got lynched yesterday in part because of the joke suspicion you initiated. I'm not sure how you can say otherwise.

Also, re: "1) You backed off all your suspicions of participating players to push the Bass train."

No. You're going to have to substantiate how I "backed off" suspicions. I never had any scum reads, so that's either a manipulative misrepresentation and I'm tempted to call bullshit on you or you're misremembering my posts. I threw out various musings about potential suspicious behavior but swatted away most of it amid uncertainty and reasons to town read those players.

The new ats won't stop trying to get me to mention myself. Can't use paragraphs or the mention autoinserts and chops a sentence or so off my post. My next reply is about this post.

[Epignosis]

YOU LOSE!

JackofHearts2005 has been killed by Shadaloo. He was:

[Epignosis]

ROUND 2
FIGHT!

[Long Con]

Aw, Ken! Too bad. I voted you until a rhyme butterfly distracted me.

[Elohcin]

Boo Mafia!!!

[Tangrowth]

Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.

lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you.

No. This is on you. You called my thoughts of LC bullshit, and now you can't even explain how you came to that conclusion.

Either explain it or die. I'm voting for you until you can adequately provide an explanation for a thought you provided.

Clearly you don't even understand my opinion of LC enough because you keep asking me to summarize it, yet that is completely noncongruent with your assertion that I'm lying. So you're the fucking bullshitter, not me, and you're bad.

[Tangrowth]

RIP JOH. Clearly I was wrong about you, thanks for a good effort.

VOTES DOM

BBL.

[Spacedaisy]

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]

I'm turning at mention off for you specifically until we can get it sorted.

[Long Con]

RIP JOH. Clearly I was wrong about you, thanks for a good effort.

VOTES DOM

BBL.

I feel like I was pretty sudden in my accusation of you... but I think you are trumping me, with intent ferocity, in your Dom accusation and vote.

[Sloonei]

Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.

That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.

Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."

Littlefinger's game is pure tunneling, and if you apply it to mafia you'll be the only townie in a sea of scum. If this is how you're looking at MP, it's no wonder you have a scum read on him.

I've only read up to this post so far, but i'm going to share one thought before I go any further: MP is town on volume alone. Nobody puts up this much fake content so quickly and effortlessly.

[Long Con]

Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.

That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.

Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."

Littlefinger's game is pure tunneling, and if you apply it to mafia you'll be the only townie in a sea of scum. If this is how you're looking at MP, it's no wonder you have a scum read on him.

I've only read up to this post so far, but i'm going to share one thought before I go any further: MP is town on volume alone. Nobody puts up this much fake content so quickly and effortlessly.

I would say it is MP's expertise.

[Sloonei]

Speedchuck cast an interesting vote that no one is talking about. He voted for Long con to "facilitate an alternate bandwagon" to Bass, despite not having any personal reason to vote for LC. I am leaning toward liking this move. It's a bit bold and suggests that he is not overly concerned with his appearance and any potential scrutiny he might face and, while i don't ever encourage blind bandwagoning, I like that he took a stand which allowed the lynch to remain somewhat more open than if I had just hammered home another vote on the Bass wagon, in absence of a real suspicion to call his own.

Simon and dunya also voted for LC. Dunya's vote was early and she supported herself well. I don't recall seeing Simon explain his vote. Anyone have thoughts on any of these things?

I appreciate you exploring this and I agree with your perspective. I also like speedchuck's recent posts exploring Elo as bad and in general it seems to me he cares about trying to solve the game. I have a town read for speedchuck.

I also believe dunya and Simon are on the level, but I need to explore dunya's content a bit more and I need Simon to post more things.

I am leaning town on dunya, in part because I agree with the notion that she seems to not have BTSC. She's had lots of questions about minor cultural/technical things here, which suggests that We The People are her best resource to go to as she adjusts to playing in a new place, rather than any teammates behind the scenes. It's been a long time since I played with her, and I suppose she could be crafty enough to deliberately leave these sorts of questions in the thread to keep us off her trail, but I'm gonna categorize that as unlikely at this stage.

I've never played with Simon before and don't know what to expect when reading his posts. And like I said before, I don't really remember seeing his reasoning for voting Long Con, so I can only really shrug at his vote right now. I'd ask if you have any specific thoughts on him, but I assume I'll get my answer before I finish catching up.

[Sloonei]

Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.

That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.

Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."

Littlefinger's game is pure tunneling, and if you apply it to mafia you'll be the only townie in a sea of scum. If this is how you're looking at MP, it's no wonder you have a scum read on him.

I've only read up to this post so far, but i'm going to share one thought before I go any further: MP is town on volume alone. Nobody puts up this much fake content so quickly and effortlessly.

I would say it is MP's expertise.

As someone coming from the same area of expertise, I'd say that this level of intensity is nearly impossible to fake.

[Sloonei]

Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.

My self-centeredness has lead me to an observation here. Malakim, you note that it's ridiculous for me to get votes for my "goofy" statement about Dhalsim on Day 0 and, while I appreciate the support, it's not true that I received votes for this. Speedchuck voted me for what amounted to no reason, and Jay and diiny voted for me for perceived meta reasons. None of those people argued that my Dhalsim comment was a reason for suspicion. Really, nobody has done that at any point in this game.

Jay voted for me and suggested I could have used that line of questioning to kick off the game. I took it as a plain and simple pressure vote and was surprised that it stayed on my til the end of the day. I would have been more concerned if he didn't throw a vote my way at any point on Day 1 (he almost always does), I'm just not used to having it stay there. Seeing as he's now had to duck out for a replacement (that can happen?), it is less concerning to me, but I still can't put him (or his spot in the game) as anything better than a neutral read right now. I thought his line of questioning against me was fair and right up Jay's alley, but that's not saying much for him and he was unable to follow up on anything in any meaningful way.

Diiny voted for me and cited a past scum game we played together as his basis. I asked a follow-up question at the time but I don't recall him answering it. Hey [mention]Diiny[/mention], how am I playing now?

[Sloonei]

Okay, caught up! Read a lot deeper here, and these are my impressions, based on what I've read.

Diiny - I liked his vote for Sloonei, and I liked his bulldogging around on D1. Pretty sure he's a townie or civ or whatever you call them here.

MP - Actually, in retrospect, I take back what I was saying about him. Reading it closer, the posts appear pretty well reasoned (or are meant to look reasoned, but then that's the I know that you know that I know that you know game). Overall, scaling back the suspicious thoughts of him. Pretty sure he's townie/civ too. I do appreciate the elaboration that yes, this is his normal play.

JoH - Fairly confident in his play here, but it's different than his Realms play to a degree.

Sloonei -Seemed to keep it low-key despite the pressure he was under, which this early seems to be civ-ish to me.

Elochin - Having trouble getting a read. She was helpful, but then that's a great way to seem civ-ish too.

Long Con - I don't know if this is a thing, but I know I've gotten really defensive when accused early in a game when I was a scummer elsewhere. And... well, I'm not familiar with the player. But it feels like he's reacting the way I did in those situations, which makes me feel a little twitchy.

Simon - Considering LC had enough on him to merit a vote, I don't like Simon's fixation on the poll and E Honda-hating D0 to vote for LC. Especially when there was the split between Sloonei or Bass, and this feels like a random vote when you could go one way or the other.

Anyway, that's the general impressions I have so far after taking the time to take a deep read. I need to figure out multiquoting on here, or do you just do it the old-fashioned way with lots of copy/pasta?

A couple more questions, malakim! We've never played together before, so I am intrigued and want to pick your brain. You note that JoH's play here was "different" from his more familiar style on your homesite. Even though he's dead now, could you explain what this means? What differences did you perceive in his gameplay on Day 1?

You also say that Eloh has been "helpful" but then you waffle and turn your whole read into what amounts to a shrug. It doesn't seem like there is much of a read here, really. Could you point to specific examples of Eloh being "helpful" or any moments that give you any doubts about her?

[Sloonei]

Let's vote for ninja blooper because I don't remember anything she's said.

[Sloonei]

Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.

lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you.

What specifically seems convoluted about MP's stance on Long Con?

[Sloonei]

I found a thing. [mention]nijuukyugou[/mention]

I'm gonna go write for a bit. I'm looking at people who don't stand out, toeing that line of participating and contributing. Too many Days 1 with voting the weirdo.

Linki - I am Blooper! :waves:

In this post you mention some vague unnamed people at whom you are looking, but you never mention any of these people by name. Can you point to anybody who is or was playing with this particular low-key style?

But then later, this:

Okay, cool.

I don't feel great about lurker voting on Day 1, but it's what I feel most comfortable with at this juncture. I'm still open to being persuaded though.

Whom would you vote if you couldn't vote for Bass or another lurker with me?

Probably either JJJ or speed for the votes on Sloonei for the Dhalsim thing. I'm wary of voting that way for the "look at me, I'm standing out on Day 1!" reasons I stated earlier. I want more info, and I like that playing is happening and want to keep it that way for today.

This seems to be the exact opposite of your previously stated line of thought. Whereas you'd previously stated that you're wary of people who don't stand out on Day 1, here you seem to be saying that you are wary of players for standing out too much on Day 1. Which is it? Or are you just wary of anything with a pulse around here?

also i'll point out again that Jay certainly did not vote for me because of what I had to say about Dhalsim, so it strikes me as odd that you would state a suspicion based on something that didn't actually happen. Could you clarify or elaborate on elaborate on what you mean here?

[Sloonei]

I was hoping I'd have time for more ISOs but my brain is fried and sentences are getting harder to type. I'm intrigued by the sudden developments between Dom & MP and I look forward to some follow up from and about them. I am still inclined to read MP as town, but his strong reaction against Dom stands out a lot. I'd like to hear more from Dom before I offer a read on him. Give me lots of stuff to read over breakfast tomorrow, folks.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Perfect. Tyvm, Daisyb

@Jackofhearts2005

I'm turning at mention off for you specifically until we can get it sorted.

[malakim2099]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

Yeah, I admit I'm not used to the level of tagging/quoting you guys use here, so bear with me. (Man, I miss HCR's multiquotes!)

RE: Elohcin

I don't like this voting for someone who doesn't post. I'm not saying MP is scummy because he initiated it, I just think it sucks for all. can't no shows be replaced with other players?

I think this combined with his consumption of most of the day going round and round with LC makes him suspicious. To me at least.

Again, maybe the long-time players can correct me here, but it just seems fishy is all. I could easily be off base.

MP always seems to pick someone to go round and round with in the beginning of games. It doesn't atick out tobme as something to say he's bad.

I liked the meta-helpful post here. At least, it was helpful to me. Also, her posting during night with JoH/MP I thought was useful for the town.

As far as what made me suspicious at first, it was her early posting. Particularly the defense of Simon and then the voting for bass. Now, I admit that initially I wasn't a fan of voting out a non-participator, but in this format where a vote-out is gonna happen... well, in that case you kinda have to without something more solid. Will have to think about the meta implications of that more since I'm not used to that. Regarding Simon...

Hi Blooper!
I'll get the hang of nicknames soon enough

Good luck town! It's 12.40am in Sweden and Monday morning emplloyment awaits.

Ooo, Sweden. I'm fascinated by other places because I've never been off the east coast of the United States.

I think Simon is civ. I agree with MP that his contributions seem solid. I will also say that Simon is right in that we were talking about street fighter costumes for Halloween. We like to dress up as a family sometimes and I was asking who Abigail (my daughter) and I could be. I was unsure of how many girls were in the game. And I brought up how the characters wear almost nothing and we couldn't dress like skanks (well ever!) but specifically at the end of October. Anyway. That's all I'll say about that.

The bolded is initially was what made me twitch. Mainly because it read that she was saying that she agreed with MP that Simon's contributions were solid... which I don't think MP said at all? (And honestly, at that point all Simon said was 'favorite char = role you got' IIRC). But then rereading the post in more detail last night it looked like she was saying that MP''s contribution was solid. Which makes more sense.

RE: JoH

It was just a minor difference. Mostly the fact that he was being a lot more detailed and precise, which I think you have to be here (as I found out almost the hard way!) Not that JoH doesn't do that at HCR, he's one of the more meticulous people at Realms... but here it just got kicked up to 11. But then it feels like you pretty much have to be.

[malakim2099]

Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.

My self-centeredness has lead me to an observation here. Malakim, you note that it's ridiculous for me to get votes for my "goofy" statement about Dhalsim on Day 0 and, while I appreciate the support, it's not true that I received votes for this. Speedchuck voted me for what amounted to no reason, and Jay and diiny voted for me for perceived meta reasons. None of those people argued that my Dhalsim comment was a reason for suspicion. Really, nobody has done that at any point in this game.

Jay voted for me and suggested I could have used that line of questioning to kick off the game. I took it as a plain and simple pressure vote and was surprised that it stayed on my til the end of the day. I would have been more concerned if he didn't throw a vote my way at any point on Day 1 (he almost always does), I'm just not used to having it stay there. Seeing as he's now had to duck out for a replacement (that can happen?), it is less concerning to me, but I still can't put him (or his spot in the game) as anything better than a neutral read right now. I thought his line of questioning against me was fair and right up Jay's alley, but that's not saying much for him and he was unable to follow up on anything in any meaningful way.

Diiny voted for me and cited a past scum game we played together as his basis. I asked a follow-up question at the time but I don't recall him answering it. Hey @Diiny, how am I playing now?

Well, that was a post I made after going through just the first two pages in detail. In the first two pages it felt a little weird that you were getting pushed on for that (even if the voting was changed off later), but the later voting for you seemed legitimate to ferret out information to me. This is the point where I do miss how HCR does voting (mod posting counts during the day as votes can change) so you can track the count of votes during the day when you go back and look at the flow of voting and see where the pressure was at what point.

[Elohcin]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

[malakim2099]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

[Elohcin]

Now....as for the game, I'm a little overwhelmed. Did Dom just come out of nowhere? Or ia that just me? And sloonei is really starting to make opinions now. But there are atill so many quiet players. We must not forgwt about them.

I have a horribly busy day with work, school, an appointment, a play date, and another mafia game I'm in. I will be back later hopefully with an opinion on who I think is bad. For now, I think all the names being thrown around are civ.

[Elohcin]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

No problem . I hate to have to explain him to people and was trying not to have to. But I don't want to see him lynched unreasonably. So that's all Ill say about him in that respect.

[malakim2099]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

No problem . I hate to have to explain him to people and was trying not to have to. But I don't want to see him lynched unreasonably. So that's all Ill say about him in that respect.

I prefer reasonable lynches, myself.

As far as Dom goes... it wasn't just you. Still trying to caffeine up for today, between work and the game.

[speedchuck]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Eloh doesn't look good from this, though it could be a framing job. JoH was the only player who really questioned/suspected Eloh. To kill him is either exactly what it looks like (mafia Eloh shutting him up), or someone who wants us to think that.

Malakim could be Eloh teammate.

Rainbow incoming.

[speedchuck]

speedchuck
Bass_the_Clever
Jackofhearts2005

MovingPictures07
Long Con
Diiny
Simon
dunya
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
nijuukyugou
Elohcin
malakim2099

This isn't as distinct a rainbow as I'd hoped, and I feel like it's being influenced too heavily by my Eloh/malakim theory. Bah. I need to read more. I am feeling pretty darn good about my top read, though.

[Elohcin]

Frame job for sure.

[Sloonei]

I appreciate the clarification RE: everything, [mention]malakim2099[/mention], thank you. Care to share your top 2 or 3 suspects with us all?

[Sloonei]

Frame job for sure.

Who framed you?

[Long Con]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

[Diiny]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

massive wifom though.

will join in properly later but need to get this irk off my chest: is it just me or did jjj in his final big post before asking for a replacement not have any opinions about anyone? seemed to just encourage town giving jjjesque advice. surely in your last big post you'd mention SOMEONE giving you bad vibes or something.

He's back to neutral for me i think

[Sloonei]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

Do you have any thoughts that aren't about MP?

[Long Con]

Not yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when I do.

[Diiny]

people i distrust: sloo, eloh, squid, mp.

will elaborate when home from work.

[speedchuck]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

Well, here's another way at looking at it: If MP is bad, he knows JoH is good. For him to suspect JoH like he did would mean he has some hope of making JoH look bad, I.E. making him a mislynch.
If MP thinks he can get JoH mislynched, why would he kill JoH?
I am leaving out some factors. Perhaps teammates drove the decision. Perhaps JoH shone so brightly on night 1 that MP gave up on the prospective shade-casting and just killed him. But I don't think so.

MP isn't cleared, for sure. But I'm not voting him today barring some change in circumstances.

linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.

[Sloonei]

people i distrust: sloo, eloh, squid, mp.

will elaborate when home from work.

Not yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when I do.

I look forward to both of these things.

[malakim2099]

I appreciate the clarification RE: everything, @malakim2099, thank you. Care to share your top 2 or 3 suspects with us all?

Just had a whole ton of work dropped on me IRL (I finished my work, but someone else didn't so I got all her leftover work now). And I'd rather take the time to back things up with quotes instead of saying "so and so" is suspicious to me, considering last night's discussion. Just didn't want you thinking I was ignoring you.

Yeah, maybe I'm taking this a little too seriously, but I want to make a good impression.

Though, the recent flame up between MP and Dom/LC was interesting to me. Will dig a bit more into that and get back to you.

[Elohcin]

Frame job for sure.

Who framed you?

Someone who is reading enough of the thread to be able to know JoH thought I'm bad. But also someone who thought it was a possibility that other players would believe the frame job as true. Who could that be?

[Sloonei]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

[Tangrowth]

I won't be around until the early evening Central/Eastern time at the earliest.

I haven't caught up but I want to emphasize that I'm still feeling strongly about Dom. Since I know I won't be around until closer to the deadline, I wanted to take a handful of minutes here to clarify as clearly as possible why I suspect Dom as strongly as I do. So here's my interpretation of the exact train of events as it went down, and I want some outside opinions on this (barring they haven't come already and aren't going to anyway) to see what you all think -- and significantly, make sure I'm not just tunneling because it's about me, so I'm curious as to whether any of you all agree that (1) this is indeed how it went down and (2) this is suspicious, because I feel that it's important.

Dom: I believe MP is being dishonest about his feelings re: LC. (He said this not only here but again here in a very assertive/strongly worded fashion.)

MP: I request that you explain how you came to this conclusion -- because I cannot discern how you did so and this is important as to make a determination as to whether you are lying or not. (I said this here after he made the assertion twice as referenced above.)

Dom: Restate your feelings on LC (succinctly, specifically in 10 words or less) so that I can better explain myself. (He said this here.)

MP: You avoided answering my question, and I feel that is suspicious. I will not acquiesce to your request to summarize because you made the assertion accusing me of dishonesty, therefore it is your responsibility to expand on how you reached that conclusion. reference

Dom: I refuse to acquiesce to your request and I double down on my assertion that you're bullshitting. reference

MP: You STILL haven't answered the question. This is suspicious. The burden of proof is on you to explain why you think my LC thoughts are disingenuous. reference

Why would a townie not make any effort at all to clarify? I admittedly have a long history with Dom (he played my first game ever 7 years ago and we consistently butt heads because we approach things differently), but I see absolutely no reason why Dom would behave this way at all if town. Literally everything is textbook scum. Dom makes an assertion that I'm full of crap, but he can't explain it. And now I feel as though, now backed into a corner because I called him out on it, Dom is doubling down on his original assertion that I'm full of shit re: LC, and instead of even briefly trying to explain where he was coming from, he refuses to, and therefore I have every reason to believe he is the one full of shit, and is trying to turn this into a one vs. one argument so that he doesn't have to explain himself -- because he can't. Because he fabricated his opinion. Townies don't care about consistency; they care about getting to the truth. Baddies are much more apt to be consistent in my view; at least when townies are consistent they are able to explain their train of thoughts -- which is EXACTLY what Long Con did when I went back and forth with him over and over and precisely why I'm town reading him. Because LC seemed genuinely interested in convincing others of that fact and in engaging me. Dom doesn't seem concerned with ANY of that at all; instead, he falls back into consistency because it's all he has to play at this point, and he's not trying to convince anyone, he just keeps barking his opinion with little persuasion.

This is important because I feel extremely strongly about this, but I am aware of how I easily can go down rabbitholes as town and lose sight of something to a fault and mislynch a townie, so if you all aren't seeing any of this, I feel as though I need to know why. Because I feel as though we have a 98% chance of lynching a scum in Dom at this moment.

I'll be back later to investigate other things because I feel as though I've taken this as far as I can -- for now I really need to refocus on the PhD. Thanks to everyone else who has contributed other discussion thus far. Let's make this as productive a D2 as possible.

[Sloonei]

I don't object to your interpretation of events, [mention]MovingPictures07[/mention], but I need to hear Dom explain himself a bit better before I put him on the chopping block. He's made an assertion which has gone unsubstantiated to this point. It's certainly possible that you're a liar. I'd like to hear how he came to this conclusion.

That said, I'm not sure I'll be around when the time comes. I am once again working tonight, so I'll miss the deadline. I swear I'm going to be here for a deadline eventually.

I'd also still like to hear from Niju, or any thoughts people might have about this post I made last night.

[Sloonei]

A loose rainbow

MovingPictures

dunya
Speedchuck
diiny
Elohcin
Long Con

JJJ
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Simon

malakim
Dom
niju

MP is my top town read and dunya's not far behind. I like what I've seen from speedchuck and diiny but I need to see more of it, especially in diiny's case. He got off to a hot start but has faded a bit. I'm eager to hear his expanded thoughts later. Eloh and LC are GTH reads. I never read them as well as some of the more seasoned Syndicate veterans, but for the moment I don't feel like either of them are lying to me.
I lumped Jay and Simon in with our two silent players because . Jay did standard Jay things when he was here, but that doesn't tell me anything, and I'm not sure how to read Simon.
malakim has answered my first round of questions well enough, but in the absence of any stronger suspects he makes it to the light orange part of my rainbow. His initial read of Elohcin struck me as a fine bit of waffling. Dom needs to answer some things, and I've shared my little bit of thoughts on ninja blooper already, awaiting response.