Mountain Mafia [END]

[Kylemii]

It's 3 AM and she calls me 'cause I'm still awake. Can you help me unravel my latest mistake? I don't love him, winter just wasn't my season. Yeah we walk through the doors, so accusing their eyes. Like they have any right at all to criticize. Hypocrites, you're all here for the very same reason.

I didn't read the whole post yet but you made some mistakes in the first paragraph so I fixed it a little.

[Sloonei]

It's 3 AM and she calls me 'cause I'm still awake. Can you help me unravel my latest mistake? I don't love him, winter just wasn't my season. Yeah we walk through the doors, so accusing their eyes. Like they have any right at all to criticize. Hypocrites, you're all here for the very same reason.

I didn't read the whole post yet but you made some mistakes in the first paragraph so I fixed it a little.

Mafia is like an hourglass glued to the table.

[Kylemii]

It's 3 AM and she calls me 'cause I'm still awake. Can you help me unravel my latest mistake? I don't love him, winter just wasn't my season. Yeah we walk through the doors, so accusing their eyes. Like they have any right at all to criticize. Hypocrites, you're all here for the very same reason.

I didn't read the whole post yet but you made some mistakes in the first paragraph so I fixed it a little.

Mafia is like an hourglass glued to the table.

and no one can find the 'no lynnnnch' option now

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Speed is looking supatown now

I like to believe mafia wouldn't let a CFD start on a third member of their faction when Jay and Wilgy were already leading the poll.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Did more thinking about Sloonei's reason for civ questions. I don't have the time to list em out or explain right now, but the ones I had the hardest time validating as civs were (and in this order) Niju-sig, Dunya, Long Con, Quin. With everyone else, I can see them in a civ light easier.

I missed wilgy's results. Including him our tally looks like this:

niju - 5
DrWilgy - 4
Long Con - 4
Elohcin - 3
Quin - 3
Kylemii - 2
Sig - 2
Speedchuck - 2
dunya - 1

That makes dunya our only player to earn a single nod in this exercise, and bumps ninjablooper up into the lead because she's a coin flip.

Also you, me and Nutella are the only players with zero nods.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Maybe I'm crazy but I can't see LC as a civvie in this game. He has to be mafia or indie.

The indie part is what keeps me from voting for him.

If it helps, the indie role looks like it can only win with town, according to the OP. So the indie is basically town with an extra win condition.

Indy>=town.

But I could see LC as a civvie. 'Could' being the key word.

linki: you're kidding, right sloon?

Where did you see that

[Dragon D. Luffy]

K2 speculation on our suspects is fine, but do we really need to do mafia's work for them in narrowing down between people like Sloonei and Dunya?

To be fair I always assume that if town can figure something out, mafia has already done it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I voted Eloh for now. I don't think 3J was bussing her though. I've done a 180 on Wilgy, could vote for him. His lower activity sets him up as a plausible bussing target to gain early civ cred while minimising damage.

Could vote for him.

After spending the lastfew hourstinfoiling about him being a civrole.

But people are not buying it, so you change to "could vote for him" while jumping on the wagon that provides the highest chance of saving Wilgy.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

All this speculation on who K2 is is making me wish I had a cushionon my desk so hitting my head there would hurt less.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Can't we all come to a compromise and lynch DDL?

Let's start with Quin.

This is the progression of DDL's case on me today. Starting, and ending.

Yesterday his case progressed from "I don't get the Quin lynch" to "I do this when bad, therefore Quin does this when bad." That wasn't what the Quin lynch was about. He never discusses what the Quin lynch was about.

It felt like he wanted a reason to suspect me that was his own so he didn't appear as though he was sheeping the main case.

Cry me a river.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also nice CFD attempt when the Wilgy lynch seems inevitable.

[Quin]

I gave people something to consider before lynching Wilgy. You translated that to 'spent hours tinfoiling about him being a civrole'.
I voted out of self-preservation. You translated that to 'jumping on the wagon that provides the highest chance of saving Wilgy'.



Please be bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wtf is going on

You tell us

I just got here dude. Why aren't we lynching Dunya, Sig, Quin or LC?

One of those four is bad. But probably not two.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Frankly for someone who didn't know what the case on me was yesterday, it's a bit overconfident of him to say that

Quin needs to go.

Just read Epi's posts again.

He made the case. I'm just sheeping it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Frankly for someone who didn't know what the case on me was yesterday, it's a bit overconfident of him to say that

Quin needs to go.

ddl has been very unforthcoming with his reads and for the most part he seems to be relying on "gut" first and foremost. This could be a tactic to hide. He feels very raw and authentic to me. I don't want to lynch him. I don't want to lynch you either.
Talk to me about Elohcin.

The issue is that I simply have not had the energy to put the same effort most of you had put since the start of the game.

I look at someone's ISO, see it has 400 posts, and back down.

So I'm looking for lazy ways to stay contributive.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

dude the number of times my advisor has sent me "did you wake up at 2/3/4am or did you send that before bed" is alarming.

So guys.

This is like, just a game.

If you are losing sleep to see the EoD, then you should consider giving up on seeing the EoD.

Just a friendly advice.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I gave people something to consider before lynching Wilgy. You translated that to 'spent hours tinfoiling about him being a civrole'.
I voted out of self-preservation. You translated that to 'jumping on the wagon that provides the highest chance of saving Wilgy'.



Please be bad.

Why Eloh instead of Wilgy?

[Marmot]

I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

dude the number of times my advisor has sent me "did you wake up at 2/3/4am or did you send that before bed" is alarming.

Wish I could help everyone out with the timing, but my time slots are pretty limited.

Don't feel bad! My post was not meant as a complaint, just an observation of my obsessive tendencies.

I don't! Don't worry, I was responding to dunya, not you.

[Long Con]

Speed is looking supatown now

I like to believe mafia wouldn't let a CFD start on a third member of their faction when Jay and Wilgy were already leading the poll.

I can't recall what this refers to.

[Elohcin]

Yay...a baddie! I think we got lucky with that one. I didn't see anything against wilgy as he seemed his normal self. But I'm glad y'all went for it.

I'm a little stressed today. Grocery shopping was atrocious and I have one more cake to complete for thia week. This is day seven in a row working without a day off. Granted I've done 14 days in a row before, but still.
Alright....off to work. Be back later.

[Sloonei]

Did more thinking about Sloonei's reason for civ questions. I don't have the time to list em out or explain right now, but the ones I had the hardest time validating as civs were (and in this order) Niju-sig, Dunya, Long Con, Quin. With everyone else, I can see them in a civ light easier.

I missed wilgy's results. Including him our tally looks like this:

niju - 5
DrWilgy - 4
Long Con - 4
Elohcin - 3
Quin - 3
Kylemii - 2
Sig - 2
Speedchuck - 2
dunya - 1

That makes dunya our only player to earn a single nod in this exercise, and bumps ninjablooper up into the lead because she's a coin flip.

Also you, me and Nutella are the only players with zero nods.

Dunya's lone nod was from wilgy, so i'm willing to count her among that group as well.

[speedchuck]

Speed is looking supatown now

I like to believe mafia wouldn't let a CFD start on a third member of their faction when Jay and Wilgy were already leading the poll.

I can't recall what this refers to.

When Jay got lynched, Wilgy and I were on the table.

[Sloonei]

Yay...a baddie! I think we got lucky with that one. I didn't see anything against wilgy as he seemed his normal self. But I'm glad y'all went for it.

I'm a little stressed today. Grocery shopping was atrocious and I have one more cake to complete for thia week. This is day seven in a row working without a day off. Granted I've done 14 days in a row before, but still.
Alright....off to work. Be back later.

"Got lucky"

[speedchuck]

So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.

[Sloonei]

I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

dude the number of times my advisor has sent me "did you wake up at 2/3/4am or did you send that before bed" is alarming.

So guys.

This is like, just a game.

If you are losing sleep to see the EoD, then you should consider giving up on seeing the EoD.

Just a friendly advice.

to be fair, i didn't lose sleep, i just delayed being responsible

[Sloonei]

So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.

Who's crediting me? It's firmly established that I was just following your lead.
And I agree with your POE.

[speedchuck]

nevermind I think I misread some posts

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.

What about Kyle and Quin?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Yay...a baddie! I think we got lucky with that one. I didn't see anything against wilgy as he seemed his normal self. But I'm glad y'all went for it.

I'm a little stressed today. Grocery shopping was atrocious and I have one more cake to complete for thia week. This is day seven in a row working without a day off. Granted I've done 14 days in a row before, but still.
Alright....off to work. Be back later.

"Got lucky"

Same thing me and Epi said about Quin could apply here.

[Sloonei]

I have zero reasons to suspect Kyle.
Quin could be bad, but I've consistently read him as town throughout the game. The odd behavior of his which has been labeled as suspicious does not actually strike me as so. It strikes me as a preoccupied townie Quin who doesn't like being told he's bad when he's not.

[speedchuck]

So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.

What about Kyle and Quin?

What about them? I townread them. They aren't cleared, but I see no links to Wilgy or JJJ or strong reason to scumread them.

[Long Con]

Please take a look at this DDL stuff.

Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

I find it unlikely that all if the scum can be found among the talkative folks.
I'm not advocating a lynch of a low poster without exhausting all our other options first.

I'll never understand this mentality. Worst thing about it is that it always seems to be the case.

Thah'ts why I compared low posters to zero posters.

There is that guy who makes 3-4 posts a day and contributes nothing. Sprityo, Sig and Wilgy could count on that category (personally I think Sprityo looks bad and I have no read on the other 2).

There is that guy who makes 1 post every 2 days saying hi and is a prime candidate for a replacement. I. e. Dom.

I think the former type can be a worthy lynch (though I'd like to ISO any of them before deciding). The later is not.

DDL mentions Wilgy in a list of "worthy lynch" low-posters, but puts the attention on sprityo.

I didn't know Wilgy was playing in this game????

Actually he isn't, he forgot to use blue font.

Nvm he is. I'm derping. Was looking for Wilgy at the W instead of D in the poll.

Ignore me plz.

IF DDL is Wilgy's teammate, then this is faked for distancing. If I were tunnelling, then I'd lean that way, but I don't want to tunnel. Up to you guys on this one.

I don't feel like lynching Wilgy. He seems legit having trouble catching up. Would like to give him more time.

Almost too blatant and obvious to be really a teammate.

*commercial music starts playing*
Have you ever looked at the linki and thought, "Holy mother of linki, looks like the person I just started to civ read is being called a top scum read?"
Well worry no longer! Zombies are currently swarming around your home and you'll soon be eaten! For more information call 1-800-42-6969.

I am not lynching Wilgy today.

Same here. DDL, lemme tell you something. I was liking your thoughts on Quin as the vote tomorrow, so I thought of a zany plan where I'd go after you for stupid reasons, but put a secret message in a post that I could refer back to in case things got ugly. I had some information I hoped to get out of this plan, but I don't want to share what it was. Really, I started to typed out what I hoped to get out of it, and then realized it was TMI and scaled it back.

BUT! Then I started to go through your posts and it's a little striking, some of the things I'm seeing in relation to Wilgy.

I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.

ARGH! This one gives me the creeps too! The whole "bothered by the lack of votes" concerned-Civ schtick? Anyone reading this, please be objective, because I feel the tunnel closing in. And that's just the appetizer in this post.

That whole second paragraph, I don't even know how to talk about it, like setting up Wilgy as the opposing counterwagon... that makes him seem more Civ if Jay is bad, right? Or is the whole Jay-Wilgy suspicion just a grand manipulation by the shadowed baddies? MAYBE THEY'RE BOTH CIV, IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING?

On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Vague dismissive avoidance allows you to not contribute to Wilgy suspicion, but not defend him either.

On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Pokemon mafia was fun. I am sorry for that however.

I was already aware of my difficulty reading you before then, tbh. You could say I let my guard down in that game.

I did track you, though. But fuck G-Man.

Lmao, ain't that some shit.

DDL can you guess my top two Civ reads?

Do I win money if I do it? It sounds hard.

Let's say... nutella and Epi?

This whole exchange.

I don't feel like lynching Wilgy. He doesn't make me feel any suspicion.

I feel some suspicion on Malakim on the other hand.

But now I don't wanna betray my civ Jay theory. Even though i'm also betraying my bad Jay theory to begin with.

Once again, is it just TOO blatant to believe?

Alright.

Screw it.

*JJJ*

No matter what, he hasn't looked like a civ all game. If meta is worthless, I'll follow my gut.

And I don't want to lynch Wilgy.

Good night. Turning off my laptop.

When did this vote happen? Was DDL crucial in the JJJ or did he jump on after the writing was on the wall? And again the blatant Wilgy stuff. It could be a thing - is he trying to be so obvious that it's unbelievable?

EBWOP oh mal is still there heh.

I also think Wilgy might've been somewhere else? I know Epi/nutella/speed were on him for sure, and I thought Sloonei was too but if you weren't around at EoD it had to have been you.

I was on Jay during the last 4 hours of the phase. I voted for him before going to bed.

But other people were on him. I think Sloonei, Jack, Speed and Nutella. Some of them left. They came back later. I'm most interested in this comeback (and people who joined late like Epi).

Ok, so DDL voted for speedchuck fifth. That's not the best look. Then he wants to focus on other voters (a Civ-lookin' list if I've ever seen one, yes I see you speedchuck), specifically Epi. Joining fifth fits in my mind as a teammate bus vote, but I could say that about voting third, fourth, last...

Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Nutella and Eoi look great
- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself instead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.
- Bob looks Eh. He dropped out of the Jay thing when people started doing t, but jumped in again when they started coming bck. Jack looks similar to Bob in that regard.
- Eloh looks bad too.
- Sloonei looks awful. I bet he has the worst vote tracking out of anyone this game. The way he kept doing 180º turns on Jay, and those turns matched the flow of the thread is pingy as fuck, and also looks artificial. I'm only second doubting it because it threads close to "so bad it's good" territory, I actually doubt a true bad Sloonei would goof that hard. The Night 3 lynch feels similar too.

It ain't something that incriminates Wilgy, more like the opposite? In spirit anyway?

Ok I'll bite.

DDL
Epignosis
Sloonei
Nutella
Dunya
Dr. Wilgy
Long Con
Speedchuck
Sig
INH
Elohcin
Quin
Kylemii
Colonialbob

@Sloonei

Orange means it's a light suspicion. I'm not really sold on it.

Yellow is neutral.

Anything above yellow is some degree of civ read.

Yes I'm torn on my scumpects.

Thanks, I dig this. Were there any names you had a difficult time deciding on? Or any reads that you surprised yourself with?

Wouldn't say I surprised myself because I have a general view on everyone. But the view for a lot of cases is "no idea". In recent years I've been more careful before actually saying someone looks civ or bad without a good reason for it.

I guess the bottom is hard to put a finger on than the top. I have a bad gut feeling about Kyle but it might be tunneling from my part, and so far I've been too lazy to actually ISO him. I don't have such a bad feeling about Bob, but I'm mostly sheeping you you since a lot of your points are good.

I've gut read Quin as civ before but he has also said some really suspicious stuff. Eloh is unreadable from my experience so I'm not even trying. INH/Sig are inactive.

Wilgy I don't really have a gut read but he looks good on the Jay lynch. Speed loooks slightly less good but I have a slightly better impression on him. LC is mostly gut.

Dunya onwards is where I start actually being confident. Mostly because information gathered from polls.

More Wilgy-friendly rhetoric.

DDL-- "Wilgy I don't really have a gut read but he looks good on the Jay lynch."

I take issue you are basing your "good" read on a possible/ definite bussing scenario (not by all members of the team, but some). Is there anything else, other than the Jay lynch, that Wilgy has going for him in your opinion?

Where is Wilgy anyway, he's disappeared lately?

Well he's acting like a normal, scumhunting citizen, which is so rare for him it makes me feel good.

And I believe there was a civ in the Jay lynch, and that either Wilgy, or Speed, or both was an attempt to save Jay.

Is Wilgy the Civ?

Ok Sloon I'll bite.

DDL: can you look at this cute face and not think it belongs to a completely innocent person?
Dr. WIlgy: normal Wilgy is such a delight to see I'm still drunk on it. Not a very strong reason so it remains a neutral read.
dunya: she feels legit. And her vote tracking is so crappy (opposing Jay lynch etc) it's hard to believe she would do it on purpose.
Elohcin: I can't read Elohcin for shit, and she seems like she really cares about the game which is not the case every game.
Kylemii: Well he is contributing. A lot. And my suspicion on him is a real case of tunneling so I might be completely wrong.
Long Con: he is so casual about the game it feels legit, a mafia might care more about his appearance.
ninja: I just flipped a coin and called heads if she was good. I got heads.
Nutella: lynch mechanics. Also feels casual like LC.
Quin: well he is being legit. He's not lying about that. The question is whether he is being legit as civ or doing that thing where you use your honesty to look good as bad.
Sig: I called tails this time, and got tails.
Sloonei: mechanics.
Speedchuck: been getting a "looks sincere"gut feeling since day 1. And he was the CFD against Jay so...

Neutral read. The guy you have never said a bad thing about, won't lynch, and just enjoy having around for personal reasons.

Reasons I can read everyone as town:

Dragon D. Luffy - I have "mind-melded" with DDL on a couple of occasions, and he made one defensive post early on which read as highly emotional and passionate, the kind of thing I don't see being faked.
DrWilgy - Jay went after him hard.
dunya - Believable-as-heck tone, has put as much work as anyone into the thread despite numerous RL reasons not to.
Elohcin - She was Jay's top lynch priority on Day 3 when prompted to name any suspect at all. This would have to be a very aggressive bussing strategy for them to be teammates. This is also among the most involved games I've seen Elohcin play.
nijuukyugou - Finally a post from this player slot! Insertglorfblooper is town because there's no way two players fail to pick up a scum role card, right?
Kylemii - Believable tone. Has put a high volume of content into the thread without ever appearing seriously uncomfortable.
Long Con - He's a fearless scumster, but appears less involved than usual this game.
nutella - Possibly Everest. Helped kickstart the Jay bandwagon on Day 3.
Quin - I believe his tone, he aggressively defended Jay, and Jay may have been making a concerted effort to pocket Quin.
sig - Jay tried to lynch him.
Sloonei - Role card says so.
speedchuck - Similar to Long Con, though I have at times also felt like Speedchuck has presented some sincere thoughts and doubts in the thread.

I'm heading out for a few hours and I'd like for this exercise to actually lead somewhere today, so I'll explain myself and ask The Question now and hope that it helps in some area.

The purpose of this exercise is to get us all thinking about the possibility that each player is town, because that is a possibility obviously. After going through and making the list, my question for all the kind folks who participation is this: which pro-town arguments were the hardest for you to come up with, or which arguments did you find least convincing?

For me the players I struggled with/were least convinced by are: Long Con, nijuukyugou, wilgy, and speedchuck. Those are the players I'd be inclined to follow up on as a result of this for myself. But the point of gathering as many folks as possible is so that we can all compare our answers. So I'd like a response to this from everybody who participated. @dunya @DrWilgy @speedchuck @Kylemii

I'd still be happy if more people wanted to take a crack at this and I appreciate those of you who have gone through with this at my incessant begging. Thanks.

Oh I like this.

I guess that would be Wilgy. And Eloh. Kyle too.

Quin's one reminded me that he does sound legit in spite of everything.

My mind is not working. Is he saying that Wilgy is one of the three least-convincing Civ reads? That would be the first negative thing he has said.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

[mention]Long Con[/mention]

I'll reply to other points later, but you should be aware at this point that the order of votes that shows in the poll is not the actual vote order. Blame the new Syndicate host service or whatever.

I was one of the first to vote Jay, and if you remove the people who abandoned it to focus on Wilgy and Speed, I was probably the first or second oldest vote.

[Long Con]

I see. I was just going off your post:

I voted for him before going to bed.

But other people were on him. I think Sloonei, Jack, Speed and Nutella. Some of them left.

Makes it sound like the other people were on when you voted. Sorry if that's a mistake.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I see. I was just going off your post:

I voted for him before going to bed.

But other people were on him. I think Sloonei, Jack, Speed and Nutella. Some of them left.

Makes it sound like the other people were on when you voted. Sorry if that's a mistake.

I don't recall the order for that anymore. You'll have to reread the thread.

But I think I was one of the first because I started going after Jay in the previous night.

Yes I had a tinfoil moment where I thought Jay was good. Basically I read dunya's empathy burst and took it further with a "scum is letting Jay die" theory. So I voted someone else to see if any new and exciting reactions would come. They didn't, time passed, and I realized I had to decide on a lynch before going to sleep. I did a soul searching and decided that tinfoil or not, Jay hadn't done anything to warrant a civ read. So I voted him back.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok I'll adress it now, but I won't reply everything since a lot of paragraphs are theories where the only thing I can do is say "no".

Please take a look at this DDL stuff.

Thah'ts why I compared low posters to zero posters.

There is that guy who makes 3-4 posts a day and contributes nothing. Sprityo, Sig and Wilgy could count on that category (personally I think Sprityo looks bad and I have no read on the other 2).

There is that guy who makes 1 post every 2 days saying hi and is a prime candidate for a replacement. I. e. Dom.

I think the former type can be a worthy lynch (though I'd like to ISO any of them before deciding). The later is not.

DDL mentions Wilgy in a list of "worthy lynch" low-posters, but puts the attention on sprityo.

Sprityo was indeed the scummiest person in this game for a while until dunya came and ruined everything.

Sig and Wilgy were just "the other two inactives".

I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.

ARGH! This one gives me the creeps too! The whole "bothered by the lack of votes" concerned-Civ schtick? Anyone reading this, please be objective, because I feel the tunnel closing in. And that's just the appetizer in this post.

That whole second paragraph, I don't even know how to talk about it, like setting up Wilgy as the opposing counterwagon... that makes him seem more Civ if Jay is bad, right? Or is the whole Jay-Wilgy suspicion just a grand manipulation by the shadowed baddies? MAYBE THEY'RE BOTH CIV, IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING?

I'm second guessing my Jay scum read in this post, and in the parenthesis I'm second-second guessing my Jay scum second guessing. So I'm working with both the Jay = civ theory and the Wilgy = civ theories at the same time.

On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Vague dismissive avoidance allows you to not contribute to Wilgy suspicion, but not defend him either.

Ok here is the story. In the last games I recall playing with Wilgy, I respectively:

1- Read him as civ all game, except in the last day where I decided tracking him after having tracked everyone else, which revealed me he was bad. And lost the game because I couldn't convince Gman he was bad.
2- Started a CFD on him on Day 1 for a stupid ass reason. He was civ.

Before then, I already considered Wilgy to be like a second marmot, and basically unreadable. These two games were my attempt to break away from that. It backtracked fabulously.

So yes, I'm avoiding reading Wilgy like the plague. Yes, I know it makes me look bad in light of the recent Wilgy reveal. Nothing I can do about it.

On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Pokemon mafia was fun. I am sorry for that however.

I was already aware of my difficulty reading you before then, tbh. You could say I let my guard down in that game.

I did track you, though. But fuck G-Man.

Lmao, ain't that some shit.

DDL can you guess my top two Civ reads?

Do I win money if I do it? It sounds hard.

Let's say... nutella and Epi?

This whole exchange.

I have no idea what was going in Wilgy's mind when he asked that.; And I doubt I ever will.

Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Nutella and Eoi look great
- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself instead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.
- Bob looks Eh. He dropped out of the Jay thing when people started doing t, but jumped in again when they started coming bck. Jack looks similar to Bob in that regard.
- Eloh looks bad too.
- Sloonei looks awful. I bet he has the worst vote tracking out of anyone this game. The way he kept doing 180º turns on Jay, and those turns matched the flow of the thread is pingy as fuck, and also looks artificial. I'm only second doubting it because it threads close to "so bad it's good" territory, I actually doubt a true bad Sloonei would goof that hard. The Night 3 lynch feels similar too.

It ain't something that incriminates Wilgy, more like the opposite? In spirit anyway?

If Speed is also bad I'll lol hard.

Ok Sloon I'll bite.

DDL: can you look at this cute face and not think it belongs to a completely innocent person?
Dr. WIlgy: normal Wilgy is such a delight to see I'm still drunk on it. Not a very strong reason so it remains a neutral read.
dunya: she feels legit. And her vote tracking is so crappy (opposing Jay lynch etc) it's hard to believe she would do it on purpose.
Elohcin: I can't read Elohcin for shit, and she seems like she really cares about the game which is not the case every game.
Kylemii: Well he is contributing. A lot. And my suspicion on him is a real case of tunneling so I might be completely wrong.
Long Con: he is so casual about the game it feels legit, a mafia might care more about his appearance.
ninja: I just flipped a coin and called heads if she was good. I got heads.
Nutella: lynch mechanics. Also feels casual like LC.
Quin: well he is being legit. He's not lying about that. The question is whether he is being legit as civ or doing that thing where you use your honesty to look good as bad.
Sig: I called tails this time, and got tails.
Sloonei: mechanics.
Speedchuck: been getting a "looks sincere"gut feeling since day 1. And he was the CFD against Jay so...

Neutral read. The guy you have never said a bad thing about, won't lynch, and just enjoy having around for personal reasons.

Yes, I don't usually lynch neutral reads. Not before scum reads. And yes, I was enjoying having him around.[/quote]

Oh I like this.

I guess that would be Wilgy. And Eloh. Kyle too.

Quin's one reminded me that he does sound legit in spite of everything.

My mind is not working. Is he saying that Wilgy is one of the three least-convincing Civ reads? That would be the first negative thing he has said.

Pretty much. Was the least convincing civ read I had at the point. Which goes in line with my "I want to keep pretending Wilgy doesn't exist kthxbye" stance I had all game.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Since you people are mentioning Eloh I decided to check.

Not gonna check everything because this is such a crazy game where even Eloh has 180+ posts so fuck you all. Will stick to mentions of Jay and Wilgy.

Elohcin
Mesk514
JaggedJimmyJay
Spacedaisy
Dragon D. Luffy
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Kylemii
DrWilgy
insertnamehere
colonialbob
sig
sprityo
Quin
Sloonei
Dom
nutella
Long Con

The highly controversial rainbow list. Not gonna poke this beehive tbh. This is her first mention of both Wilgy and Jay in the game.

tbh, I agree with this. I feel like straight forward Wilgy has been more common recently too.

Haha... I agree actually. I feel like since vocaroo mafia, I have a whole new perspective of wilgy. And I like him.

At this point, I think sloon or quin would be good lynch candidates. I think both are contributing mostly nonsense.

I think jack is forgetable and don't really understand the votes on him. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve them.

I like that wilgy is contributing now and I think cbob seems civ.

I still think LC is bad but I guess we'll have to get him another time when others agree with me.

Wilgy defenses.

Daisy responds and he just drops it? This looks like something I would do if I were bad. Quin tries to get something on daisy. Can't. Gives up. And as he now feels daisy will not be taken to an easy lynch, he asks her opinion on sig. Which really, he should know her thoughts if he had been reading her posts. And if he hadn't, this only confirms his original "suspicion" of her is made up.

My top suspects for day 3 are quin and chuck so far.

Post is snipped for brevity, here's the whole thing

Elohcin, your grievance with Quin here is contingent upon his handling of Spacedaisy. Following the interaction Quin had with Sloonei that you discussed in this same post, Daisy's handling of sig (re: Jack) was the core of the dialogue. In that regard, it would seem to me that a focused question about sig to Spacedaisy makes plenty of sense. Indeed, the highlighted portion here is an assertion that Quin didn't actually read her posts because he asked about sig, but the exchange above this in the same post displays Quin talking about Spacedaisy's read on sig. Please talk about that.

Also please talk about this

Right. Quin was suspicious of how daisy handled her thoughts of sig. But then he asks her what she thinks of sig. I don't see how that's reasonable.

As for discussion of the rainbow list I made on day one (I think it was), I just looked at the list of playera and basically put them in order of most trustworthy to least trustworthy in accordance with my opinion. Apparently I was ignorant to the fact that rainbow lists had to be more complicated than that. And yea, In mentioned that I was okay with voting A low poster as I felt a baddie could be among them. Of course its not like I would have picked a low powter at random to vote for. It would be something that would have to be discussed. And just because I'm okay with voting a low poster doesn't mean all the low posters have to be orange and red on my rainbow list.

Does this better explain my posts?

Jay spills his rethoric diahrreia he had all game. Eloh explains her rainbow list. Hard to say what Jay means here because he has meant nothing all game. Eloh is simply defending herself.

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

The use of ellipsis here is so awkward I actually wish Epi was alive so he could deeply analyse it.

Quick comment regarding the GTH exercise.

For everyokne that GTH'd me good. Why do you think I'm good? Under what scenarios do you find that I'm scummy? Would you say that you are mpre of a player that finds people innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

@elochin I'm still curious as to why you stated my comment about being able to read Daisy stuck out to you as scummy before my further explanation. What about that comment caused a scum read? Am I not allowed to be bad at reading someone?

@JoH, I'll get back to you. I've come to a point where I'm aware of my tunneling and I need to review others before I continue to bark at you. What I find interesting outside of our back and forth is your baddie read of me. What prompted this read exactly?

It was the tine and abruptness off your post. I quoted and posted and then came back to where I left off and saw you had explained yourself better in the very next post. I thought maybe after you posted, you read it back and saw your scummy tone and figured you should better explain or.... perhaps your tone wasn't a scum slip and you were just continuing your thoughts in the next post. Seeing as just about everyone, if not everyone, sees you as good with their GTHs, I'm thinking it was one of my irrational reads. I'm good at those. But I don't know. I would put you as a firm yellow in my head.

Wilgy demans an explanation on her suspicion of him. Eloh backs down and puts him as a neutral. Looks pretty bad, almost "too bad to be bad".

I placed a vote on chuck. I wish thenlynch wasn't ao late. Don't tie tgis up guys.

It's EoD3 and by this point what annoys me is the practically zero content on Jay. Wilgy has a more, at least proportional to Eloh's normally low post count. But it's weird because Jay was one of her top civ reads in the rainbow, and she never directly acknowledged his existance in the game except that one time where she was prompted by him to explain her list.

So in a exciting and disputed night, she votes Speed alone and doesn't take part in the main wagons (granted I think the Jay wagon hadn't started yet so this is probably NAI).

I'm still reading page 63 but I'm an impatient kid right now so imma leave this thought.

Usually whenever I play a game that has both Jay and Sloonei in it, I feel like Sloonei is Jay #2.

Like, their playstyles are very similar, but Jay is the protagonist. Sloonei is the sidekick. Jay leads the town. Sloonei helps. They are a fearsome civ duo that way, actually. The Jay 1 and the Jay 2. You don't want to cross their path if you're bad.

In this game, Sloonei is Jay #1.

He leads the town. He leads the conversation. He is the is the guiding light that will take us to victory, or to our doom. But he is the one steering the wheel.

Whatever Jay is, he is not Jay #1. Or even Jay #2. He is something else and I don't know what that is.

At this point I'd expect to be drowing in a sea of Jay. To have so much Jay around me I could barely breathe. But I can breathe just fine. Jay is talking, but he is not seizing control. He is engaging, but not in a way that makes me feel like he is trying to produce perfect reads on everyone on day 1, to make everyone interact with each other, to move the game forward.

He is not in his element. Something is wrong with him. So I'm itching to call him bad. Although, it is possible he might be busy or distracted or just having a bad civ game. It happens. But he is not the civ Jay I know, I'm sure of that.

This post is so poetic. I love it.

I'm not sure how I feel about Jay this game. He is difficult for me to read. But I would agree that he is quieter than usual even though he is participating.

Finally. Night 3. A mention of Jay. And we get a very soft agreement with me. Well, she has been very softly agreeing with me every 24 hours.

You look very town in this post.

I agree and its throwing me for a loop because he is convincing. I don't know who to be suspicious of.

This one is weird because Eloh agrees with me and says Speed is convincing. And I remember her building a case against Speed early on. She even made an ISO and everything.

I said I was going to put reads in this thread and I will. I do not have time to be Jerry Seinfeld and I don't give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld. I frankly don't see how there could be any impression that I give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld or any other generic super-civilian cookie cutter rendition of myself given the posts I have made in this game. This variety of meta read is bogus, as though JJJ suddenly forgets how to make a million posts when he draws a mafia role.

There's a reason I am only here during brief windows right now. That won't change for the foreseeable future in this or ensuing games. I implore the civilians in this thread to engage a broad dialogue whether I am your locked vote or not. Nothing is friendlier to the mafia team right now than a continuing focus on me, especially when I am in no position to engage the discussion.

Can you elaborate a little bit on your lack of activity? Now, I know you are participating, don't get me wrong. You just aren't participating like normal Jay, civ or baddie imo. I have been in games with you where you were civ and bad and I would say you carry the thread in either situation. So, I don't see this quiet Jay (quiet for you) as necessarily a bad jay. But it is disconcerning. So, I'm curious. Have you taken on more in your RL schedule? I ask because I hate to lynch a civ Jay because of RL business.

Tiptoeing around suspecting Jay.

I would be okay lynching wilgy, quin, sloonei, dunya, or lc. I know its my duty to go into detail but I cannot stare at this screen much longer. This isnbased on a previous poat I made in response to dunya. These arenthe people I don't trust atm.

Wilgy-not trying hard enough. Has pinged me a couple times.
Quin and sloonei-seem to be a driving force this game but I don't feel like they seem super civ. Baddie teams usually have at least one very vocal player. If this team does, gotta be one of these.
Dunya-same field as sloonei and quin as a driving force, but she has said several things that ping me even though she also seems like a vey helpful civ. "Seems" and "is" are two different things.
Lc-still could be bad imo

Thanks for letting us know, Eloh. Vote for Wilgy maybe?

Look at me voting alongside sloonei, another suspicion of mine. This game is so crazy. Fun, but crazy.

Look at me contradicting myself again about Speed and joining the CFD that nearly saved both Jay and Wilgy! So crazy.

JaggedJimmyJay has been lynched.
He was the Chocolate Hills.

You have until 22:00 MST on Sunday to submit your night actions, as I will be incapacitated tomorrow.

Well....good job guys. I had a soft spot for Jay because people were saying he was busy IRL. I hated to lynch a good civ just because he wasn't able to participate AS MUCH AS he normally does. Now....what can we learn from this lynch?

This could either be honest or could be a baddie Eloh wanting to say something about her teammate and being awkward about it. I'm probably being confirmation biased here. I hate ISOs.

Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

I don't know why you had a bad read on sloonei. But I think the thread has pretty much confirmed him town now. I cannot remember the exact reason why, though. Too much to remember.

NAI I think.

@Elohcin what are your views on LC and Dr Wilgy?

I think both could be bad. I don't trust either. LC is quiet for his meta. Wilgy is talking about the same as usual which means not much to go on. But...there are others who have more and better points against them. So... I think that's where we should focus.

I have to vote. Let me look at the poll and try to catch up and decide where to place it. Gotta get some sleep as tomorrow is another long workday.

Oh wait...thats right. JJJ had a case against wilgy, I forgot about that. So he probably isn't scum.

You almost did good here Eloh. Almost.

OK let's conclude. First of all, sorry if my sarcastic tone may have offended you at some point, Eloh. I usually act like that when I ISO someone. It's not personal.

Second: Eloh does not go hard at Wilgy or Jay. She went at Wilgy a little at first, but she also read him good not much before, and went back to reading him good later. With Jay, it's more like a near complete avoidance.

She doesn't look good here, if you apply the theory that scum doesn't attack scum. But if you expect bussing, she's not doing that either. This possible bad Eloh doesn't bus her teammates, she tiptoes around them while trying to hit someone else or just avoids them. So there is some degree of WIFOM.

I'm hesitating to lynch her because I generally suck at lynching her and it usually ends with some ugly "Eloh was busy and we lynched her for that" which makes me feel bad. The silver lining is that, despite her constant claims about being busy, she is actually putting a pretty high post output in this game. It's low compared to most players, but that's because you all are fucking insane which is not her fault.

It annoys me how she buddies people. Everyone. A lot. I feel like she has buddied me alone at least 5 times. But I don't remember if Civ Eloh or baddie Eloh usually do that, if you guys wanna point that out I'll be thankful.

I'm also taking everything with a grain of salt because there is obviously some confirmation bias here and I haven't ISO'd anyone else. I got curious since other people mentioned her interactions with WIlgy made her bad and decided to check. But well, it's done, not gonna delete this post.

So in conclusion. I'll maybe lynch her. If I can overcome my general empathy and paranoia over having mislynched her in the past. And if I Quin doesn't say some uber scummy shit again in the next 36 hours.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also lol in retrospect because I said I wasn't gonna poke the rainbow beehive and ended up doing anyway. Sorry not sorry.

[Sloonei]

Let's check out DrWilgy.

What LC potential scumslip?

The "how does he know they are townies" bit?

Epi had cause and effect reversed.

Just jumping in. I don't even know the context.

Would Epi reversing cause and effect reveal anything about his mindstate?

First semi-relevant content. This is a question that seems directed to throw shade on Epi, as the premise is a not-even-veiled criticism of him. I can extend this post to involve 4 players, 3 of whom are now dead: wilgy, Epi (the subject), and Jack (to whom wilgy is responding). The fourth player would be Long Con, about whom Epi was "reversing cause and effect". Indirect shade on Epi is indirect support of Long Con.

He then made several big catch-up posts, just hurling out ideas as he read through past events:

Spoiler: show

ima vote epignosis whenever and i'd like someone to tell me why that is

Because there's too little knowledge in the game to be setting a hard POE at this point.

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

... I have never heard the terms "Good boys" "Bad boys" or "Wild boys" used here. Are you from an alternate reality?

It's gonna become the new thing. Just you wait.

What about Spicy Bois?

He's buddying them, and then intimidating you out of an adversarial position. He's setting up a long game. That's not what Civ Epignosis cares to do.

I could see all of this being applicable to Epi in his current form. But he is as crafty a townie as he is scum, so I'm not going to leap to any quick decisions on him.

There has to be a more often than not though. What can you best describe as Epi's civ behavior vs Epi's mafia behavior?

Now onto day 1.

In this post he answers Quin's old Day 0 prompted about voting Epi with some apparent support for the notion. Other than that all his interactions here are with dead folks or me, or are not substantial. I am inclined to say this looks like wilgy trying to encourage false suspicion against Epi, and Quin looks slightly good for his involvement in the exchange, as the target of wilgy's hopeful manipulation.

Spoiler: show

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

What were you referring to here?

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

What prompted this read as opposed to the post regarding his behavior being non-alignment indicative?

Can you agree with both hesitance and confidence toward the same thing simultaneously?

In this case, I think so. Nutella agrees with the sentiments that have been shared by myself, Long Con, and possibly you (we still don't know your actual reasons for voting Epi). I was only asking about the extent to which she agrees.

My reasons are the same as LC. I thought he was buddying.

Fair enough.

I'll disagree. I think a day one POE is too clear cut to be buddying, and if the goal was to buddy I don't think Epi would've gone about it this way.

Of course, I do like Doc. Hes a fun fellow even if Dunsparce is lame.

And now my feelings are hurt. *voting JoH*

Quin/Sloonei not w/w imo.

Do you still think this to be true?

I would never do ab&c as scum and therefore the best time to do ab&c would be as scum to fool people.

Also, people get lazy.

Ergo "I am not that bad at being bad" or "I wouldn't say that if I was bad" arguement a tend to be super unconvincing to me.

I hate unconvincing arguements. That's where the hate is coming from.

When you break down all conversation in mafia to it's smallest bits all that is left is the WIFOM. Do you just hate Mafia?

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I'm not really buying the idea that she feels guilty about rolling Mafia, making it affect her very first post in the game.

WHo the hell feels guilty about being mafia anyway?

I do. I don't like killing my friends. Choosing who to take out of a game feels bad.

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

Wait a minute.

How does Long Con know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?

This.

I know understand why D1 exploded.

// Taking a break here to reflect on personal thoughts.
// Why does Sloonei have so many questions, yet I feel like he has no read yet at this point?
// Because of this I think I agree with DDL.
// At this point the players that have taken my interest so far are LC, Epi, Sloonei, DDL
// I'm noticing a trend that Quin often goes under my radar. For some reason Quin's voice just doesn't stick in my head.

Time to continue. More D1 after these commercial messages.

*commercial music starts playing*
Have you ever looked at the linki and thought, "Holy mother of linki, looks like the person I just started to civ read is being called a top scum read?"
Well worry no longer! Zombies are currently swarming around your home and you'll soon be eaten! For more information call 1-800-42-6969.

More meat. Here he reverses on the stance he expressed in the previous post RE: Epi and is now discouraging Quin's theory about Epi buddying folks on Day 0. He also asks Jack to elaborate on his read that Quin and I are unlikely scum partners. The most pertinent section is his closing thoughts:

// Why does Sloonei have so many questions, yet I feel like he has no read yet at this point?
// Because of this I think I agree with DDL.
// At this point the players that have taken my interest so far are LC, Epi, Sloonei, DDL
// I'm noticing a trend that Quin often goes under my radar. For some reason Quin's voice just doesn't stick in my head.

Lazy shade on me, citing DDL as the motivator of this suspicion. But then he lists DDL along with myself, Epi, and LC as "players that have taken his interest", and adds an odd blurb about Quin being perpetually off his radar. This is one of those player salad posts in which I would not be surprised to find out that wilgy had named a teammate, but that does not need to be the case. I'm unsure what to make of his apparent contradiction from one sentence to the next RE: DDL and that relationship is something I'll keep an eye on as I move forward in this ISO. Ditto for Quin. LC is also plopped in here without context.

Spoiler: show

I do. I don't like killing my friends. Choosing who to take out of a game feels bad.

So do I. But this was Day 1. Nobody had had to kill anyone yet. Do you feel guilty just for having a bad role card?

Yes simply because I know what I will have to do. Looking at your role card does have an effect on the psyche, even if you don't know your teammates.

// I'm noticing a trend that Quin often goes under my radar. For some reason Quin's voice just doesn't stick in my head.

So I'm easily forgettable?

GTH?

I wouldn't say that your forgettable. More so just not a priority. GTH of you? Civ... Was GTH directed at me? I feel like I missed context there.

Responds to DDL and Quin. The DDL interaction looks mildly good, as DDL is lightly grilling the doctor, but I don't take much out of it. Quin asks wilgy for a GTH read of him and wilgy comes back with a civ read. Noted. I like Quin here. He latched on to wilgy's lack of commitment and forced a real answer out of him, at which point wilgy apparently retreated from the position of listing him as a suspect.

This post is strongly critical of Kyle and more vaguely critical of Jack. Jack has since been nightkilled, so we can assume he's town. I also fully believe Kyle to be town. wilgy is pushing suspicion against townies here.
He also blames Epi for "feeding the NO U circle" with LC. He has expressed criticism of the whole Epi/LC event of Day 1, but his focus has primarily been on Epi as a suspect for this. LC is only a peripheral figure in wilgy's posts.

He ISO's Jack and in the process seems to redirect suspicions against Long Con and nutella while working very hard to bury Jack. wilgy's most significant reference to nutella at this phase is to say that he "hates" Jack's decision to vote for nutella. It could just be simple shade on Jack (clearly that is what this post was designed to do), but I can't ignore nutella's role here.

Spoiler: show

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

Interesting. This is based on what?

Interesting indeed. I won't try to unravel any deeper intent behind this post just yet, but this exchange sticks out because it's the first meaningful one all game between my current top suspect and the recently lynched scum. There is remarkably little substance to it. Eloh calls him scummy and leaves. wilgy asks why. Eloh later served a big waffle in response.

I'm going to be a contrarian and vote for the other no-show.

Hi everyone. I see there's about 15 new pages. What's new. Someone catch me up.

Day 3 vote for "the other no-show". I assume that means INH/niju. There was absolutely no risk of that player spot being lynched this day. Potentially bad look for niju. As an aside, this vote became the source of the awkward conversation between Jay and wilgy I highlighted last night. Did I highlight it? I know I noted in my head but I can't remember if I actually transferred that thought from head to thread. Any way, this whole exchange is something I could definitely see as evidence against the player spot which has been occupied by three people and produced one post.

Spoiler: show

Oh god I do not want to be the deciding vote here. I'm feeling waffly on both.

'ella ella ey ey ey (why did you call me ella, ella, ella, ey ey ey?)

Yeah, everyone knows your name is Hazlenut friend

come on LC (or kyle or quin or wilgy) join usss

I would've but I fell asleep

I wasn't planning on thoroughly looking at J³ until tomorrow, is there a significant chance that he's mafia

Y tho?



Someone actually died... What a night.

Getting chummy with nutella.

dunya is good and I feel no need to highlight any interactions between her and wilgy for the rest of this ISO unless other pertinent information is touched upon.

Spoiler: show

I feel my thoughts are very much in sync with DDL.

I am hesitant to vote Jay with him, but "I like this Jack more than Day 1" Jack sums up my exact feelings.

Wilgy is "in sync with DDL", but hesitant to vote for Jay. Doubly noted. There've been very few mentions of DDL in this ISO so far and my gut tells me this looks like a soft attempt to pocket the Dragon by the Doctor. I kind of like DDL's indirect involvement here.
Yeah, this doesn't read like a teammate interaction. wilgy looks like he's trying to appease DDL, and this interaction appears too loose, especially on DDL's end, to be something coordinated between partners.

Spoiler: show

On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Pokemon mafia was fun. I am sorry for that however.

I was already aware of my difficulty reading you before then, tbh. You could say I let my guard down in that game.

I did track you, though. But fuck G-Man.

Lmao, ain't that some shit.

DDL can you guess my top two Civ reads?

Do I win money if I do it? It sounds hard.

Let's say... nutella and Epi?

Hot damn, you got one. It was you and Hazelnut.

wilgy's two strongest town reads are DDL and nutella. This makes me feel moderately better about nutella than when I was ponderin' earlier. DDL continues to look good. This amount of chumminess does not look like teammate interaction. The nutella read is more vague.

Spoiler: show

I am currently debating a vote for either Eloh or Kyle. Somebody talk to me about these people.

Talk to me.

Something about Eloh had held me ealier. She had stated that my exclamation about not being able to read Daisy felt super scummy, but immediately backed off. I couldn't tell if what I was saying was an actual scum tell of hers that I triggered or if she was looking for things to call scummy and pulled the trigger too soon. Did you read this? I kimda forgot until now.

Kyle... Kyle. I haven't interacted with Kyle directly I dont think. What has you mumbling is name late at night?

Wilgy liked the waffle Eloh served earlier so much that he tried to replicate it when Quin asked the thread for opinions on her. I can read these Eloh/wilgy interactions as two partners trying to put distance between themselves without actually endangering the other.
He refrains from offering a single thought on Kyle but prods Quin to expand on his suspicion.

Spoiler: show

Why only one of me and speedchuck? Why are you town reading sig?

I like this question. I like it alot.

Speaking of which, Sig was here previous. Did he have a reason for his absence? I feel like I've seen him more than the others who are missing but less than... say Eloh? Mesk... I'm putting him in the Mesk mental territory of appearance.

What is this? Wilgy is straining to say... something about sig, but I don't know what. As he seems to be supporting the notion that sig shouldn't be town read, I'll say this looks like an effort to throw shade on sig but it kind of falls flat. My inclination for the last few days has been to read sig as town, and I think he's a player who teammates would have no trouble bussing if the opportunity presented itself. This looks like wilgy is straining to spin suspicion sig's way, and I'm inclined to say it's a good look for sig, wherever he is.

Spoiler: show

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Not wanting to pull off the band-aid?

Good job everyone.

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

Sudden unexpected shade on LC in the aftermath of Jay's lynch. I'm inclined to call this a good look for LC, but that's not a definite read. wilgy seemed afraid to bus Jay (hopped around on other bandwagons, never really engaged in the conversation about him), so I don't think he'd be likely to respond to the loss of one teammate by suddenly aggressively bussing another.

Spoiler: show

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate?

Lemme double cherck.

Chercking is what happens when a jerk checks. jk

You right. Idk what made me think you agreed with it. Bad feeling about LC absolved.

... Oh. This is an even better look for LC. I don't think a scum player decides to make a sudden push against a teammate and then immediately backs off it at the first ounce of pressure. when the bus gets rolling, it doesn't stop.

Already discussed this Eloh interaction in another post. I could see it being teammate-indicative.

Spoiler: show

Thanks for this Speedchuck.

Something that caught my eye was the "INH/BLP - uuuuuuh good." To your knowledge, did Cbob ever attempt or push an INH lynch?
"Mount Elbrus - Twice in the game, Elbrus may peek at another player’s alignment, though he will only learn the truth on one of these occasions."

It is possible that Elbrus checked INH but responded with "uuuuuuh" because he didn't know if he could trust his double edged sword result.

Linki - Interesting, I can toss that theory a bone. How was Cbob's interactions with Sloonei before and after the JJJ lynch?

A very convoluted defense of niju.

Speedchuck is good

Spoiler: show

Dragon D. Luffy -
Civ due to tone and reasoning. I've meta read him as civ the entire game.
Bad due to voting record. DDL had voted for Jack day 2, Bob day 3 (when J3 was a heavily discussed option), If my memory serves was a lead pusher of the Malakim wagon.

DrWilgy -
Civ due to his overall attractiveness.
Bad due to... his overall attractiveness?

dunya -
Civ due to being very vocal. I did not recall seeing anything I directly was opposed to in the moment other than their suspicion on me.
Bad due to interactions with J3.

Elohcin -
Civ due to interactions with J3. While not a negative voting record I so far have had no harsh qualms with the results of her votes.
Bad due to interactions with me that I noticed earlier in the game. Eloh was playing catch up (like someone else who I won't mention) and had called me scummy for a single sentence regarding daisy. It stuck with me and still does.

And I only got through 3 before I have to leave. Sorry Sloonbot, I'll try to finish the rest later. I did find that I putting reason behind Dunya being civ was much harder than the other two, and very much forced. I don't know if this is due to a lack of knowledge or not. I should reflect on this.

Still not totally sure what to do with this post. I don't think wilgy was in a position to spew wifom like Jay was on his final day, because wilgy was not the clear target of suspicion that day and had no reason to assume he was about to be lynched at this time. I continue to sense that he's uncomfortable discussing Elohcin, though. His two reads of her provided here use more words than was probably necessary.

Spoiler: show

Did more thinking about Sloonei's reason for civ questions. I don't have the time to list em out or explain right now, but the ones I had the hardest time validating as civs were (and in this order) Niju-sig, Dunya, Long Con, Quin. With everyone else, I can see them in a civ light easier.

Names the two no-shows, dunya, lc, and Quin as his targets after my town read exercise. If one of these is a partner, it's niju. Eloh is absent from this list. Eloh is actually his teammate.

[Elohcin]

for purposes of clarity, I am purple.
Firwt of all, I have to say, "I'M DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I just finished my last cake order for this week and I'm so exhausted. I'd love a nap, or to binge on Netflix. But....looka like I'm playing defense in mafia instead.

OK let's conclude. First of all, sorry if my sarcastic tone may have offended you at some point, Eloh. I usually act like that when I ISO someone. It's not personal.

dude, you're cool, man. I'm not sure how civ you are after LC's ISO, but your cool.

Second: Eloh does not go hard at Wilgy or Jay. She went at Wilgy a little at first, but she also read him good not much before, and went back to reading him good later. With Jay, it's more like a near complete avoidance.

I never really go hard at anyone. And by this, I mean I don't usually build strong, in depth cases on anyone. I always read Jay as civ. He is juat alwaya a helpful player. And I should have seen the difference in him this game as possible baddie behavior. But from what I knew, he usually seems helpful whether civ or scum. So, with this understanding, I just assumed dunya was right and that his odd inactivity was due to rl stuff instead of scummyness.

She doesn't look good here, if you apply the theory that scum doesn't attack scum. But if you expect bussing, she's not doing that either. This possible bad Eloh doesn't bus her teammates, she tiptoes around them while trying to hit someone else or just avoids them. So there is some degree of WIFOM.

I'm hesitating to lynch her because I generally suck at lynching her and it usually ends with some ugly "Eloh was busy and we lynched her for that" which makes me feel bad. The silver lining is that, despite her constant claims about being busy, she is actually putting a pretty high post output in this game. It's low compared to most players, but that's because you all are fucking insane which is not her fault.

listen... I'm always busy. Always. I love my life, don't get me wrong. My family is absolutely amazing and they are my life. Maybe I should vow to never say I'm busy again in mafia. Thing is...peopel get onto me for not participating like them and I feel the need to explain. I have put a lot into thia game because it's been so long since I had played antrue mafia game.
Cc123 went on forever and felt like it was for nothing. I wanted to come into the game and participate the hell out of it. Then, I went from 1 order to 4 in a matter of hours laat Saturday afternoon. So.. I tries to keep up despite of it. I really wanted to have fun with this game...and I have.

It annoys me how she buddies people. Everyone. A lot. I feel like she has buddied me alone at least 5 times. But I don't remember if Civ Eloh or baddie Eloh usually do that, if you guys wanna point that out I'll be thankful.

i guess if you call agreeing with someone buddying, then yeah... I do it both as a civ and scum.
Meaning...it has nothing to do with my allignment. When I see a post I agree with... I say so. Its not intentional buddying per se. As a civ, I say if Inagree with someone else's read. As a baddie, I say if I agree with someone else's read. When a baddie, however...of course I know who is bad and civ. So when I'm agreeing... I'm saying, "yeah...that player's behavior looks bad or that player's behavior looks good.

I'm also taking everything with a grain of salt because there is obviously some confirmation bias here and I haven't ISO'd anyone else. I got curious since other people mentioned her interactions with WIlgy made her bad and decided to check. But well, it's done, not gonna delete this post.

So in conclusion. I'll maybe lynch her. If I can overcome my general empathy and paranoia over having mislynched her in the past. And if I Quin doesn't say some uber scummy shit again in the next 36 hours.

posting this, but still catching up...

[Sloonei]

[mention]Elohcin[/mention] what do you think about sig and ninjablooper?

[Elohcin]

I want to try an ISO or two. I can of course go to page one and click on a specific player's post. But on my phone, I cannot search said posts for anything specific. And with the number of posts people have it's going to be difficult. But I'm still going to try. I'll start by looking at wilgy (I know several of you have done so already) and seen what kind of connections I can find with others. Worth a shot, I guess. I have about an hour before I have to get ready to leave.

[Elohcin]

I don't know about sig. I think that he may be civ. I can't see him up and leaving his team.

I think blooper could be bad. But if so, "that's bad luck 'ol boy" for our mafia team. Thirs person in that slot with really no participation. Did blooper even post more than once? I don't think she did.

[Kylemii]

I want to try an ISO or two. I can of course go to page one and click on a specific player's post. But on my phone, I cannot search said posts for anything specific. And with the number of posts people have it's going to be difficult. But I'm still going to try. I'll start by looking at wilgy (I know several of you have done so already) and seen what kind of connections I can find with others. Worth a shot, I guess. I have about an hour before I have to get ready to leave.

If you're using the chrome app you can tap the 3 dots in the upper right corner and select the "find in page" option, I've been using it a lot.

[Sloonei]

I don't know about sig. I think that he may be civ. I can't see him up and leaving his team.

I think blooper could be bad. But if so, "that's bad luck 'ol boy" for our mafia team. Thirs person in that slot with really no participation. Did blooper even post more than once? I don't think she did.

why is sig possibly good and blooper possibly bad?

[Elohcin]

It's 3 AM and I really should be going to bed, but instead here's a thought that's been bugging me all day long and I need to get out of my system:
Wilgy slipped a completely vague suspicion of me into the thread during Night 5. It was the first time I'd faced an ounce of scrutiny in a while. Eloh responded to say that "the thread has pretty much confirmed" me as town, and the doctor responds with a bogus cryptic hint toward something:

Spoiler: show

Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

I don't know why you had a bad read on sloonei. But I think the thread has pretty much confirmed him town now. I cannot remember the exact reason why, though. Too much to remember.

Perhaps I'll find out why tonight.

I got the increasing sense over the course of this day that this was a bogus suspicion being pushed in an unsuccessful attempt to sully my good name. In my paranoid narcissism, Elohcin is also complicit in the evildoing. Early on she pushed me as a suspect (I was peddling "nonsense" because I suspected for an inconsistent rainbow. That's a real sentence I just typed with a straight face), but dropped it in the middle portion of the game. It seemed to me like she was kind of just following Epi's lead. He cleared me, and so she fell in line with his belief. But then wilgy came out of left field with a bogus attack on me, one which I now feel was probably pre-meditated. This was as meaty as it got:

Spoiler: show

Hey Sloonei. Not much. I had a notion that you were bad based on your behavior around the J3 lynch and the Malk lynch.

I remembered behavior that seemed like buddy-ing towards Malk and his flip revealed that it may have been the case.

I also recall you being a defactor during the J3 lynch.

Other than that, I haven't read much and feel like I'm hindering everyone. Sorry.

If this was indeed a pre-meditated attack on me, it might not be a leap to assume that his teammate(s) could also be in on it, as the scum team thinks they see an avenue to push my lynch. Maybe they've tried to kill me and failed and want to get rid of me this way instead. Or something. I don't know. The point is, today it seemed like everything I said was met by objection and criticism from Elohcin. Observe:

Spoiler: show

and welcome nijuukyugou, thanks for stepping in. Do not worry about trying to read all of this nonsense. This is already the biggest speed game in syndicate history. It'll be pointless and counterproductive to attempt a catch up. Just hop right in and start telling us who seems honest or dishonest.

I don't know if this is the best advice. Seems kind of idd for you to tell her not to worry about reading any previous content. I mean, I don't expect her to read ALL the pages, but still.

I'll extend that question to everyone, about everyone. I think this could be a useful exercise: in a brief answer, what reason do you have to read each player remaining in this game as town?

I think if I were to propose an idea like this I would be jumped on and lynched. However, with the way things are going, maybe ruling out those we trust will help us lynch scum. I just don't know. Gut tells me this approach is coming FROM scum to distract us from looking at clues in posts from those who have died recently.

I'd still like it if as many of us as are able could list reasons to read everybody as town. I have a reason for asking this, and the more people who do it, the more potentially useful the exercise is.

But why can't you just come right out and tell us your plan?

I agree with nutella that slooneis adventure to find civs is silly.

Wow, I was gone a few hours and there hasn't been much talk. I said this already. I think we need to go back to where we were before all the CFD (I think that's what you would call what has happened in just about all, if not all our lynches). Its like we have our mind made up and and then it gets changed at the end. I'm up for voting sig, kyle, or quin. I think those were the ones who had cases against them which were forgotten in the CFDs. But most of all, I'm up for sloonei. I think he took us down a rabbit trail today and wasted our time as I thought would happen. I cannot stay up late. I will be voting within the next hour.

Even though I would rather vote sloon, I went with quin because he already has a vote. I hate to do that, but as y'all can see... I have two votes. I cannot stay up any longer to help save myself, so I'll do what I can. I'm telling y'all... I think we are doing these bad lynches to ourselves. We have all these suspects and all of a sudden today you are going to decide to leave that behind and vote for me. This is not helping.

She's back to pushing me as her preferred suspect even though a couple of days ago I was "pretty much confirmed town", and any suggestion I make in the thread is opposed because... I don't know, Elohcin's just opposing everything I say.

It's worth noting that I also sensed some of the same attitude from nutella, but from her it seemed more like paranoid skepticism than Eloh's outright rejection of my ideas. Nutella classified her suspicion of me as "tinfoil" and actually provided a reason or two for wanting to avoid the exercise I was trying to lead. Plus she's generally been pro-Sloonei during this game.

i'm sleeping now.

Sloonei is suggesting here that I was trying to push a lynch on him. This makes no sense. Why would I try to lead a lynch on Sloonei? He is a very respected play this game and I am no lynch leader. If anything, this shows me as town because if I were mafia, I'd have no good reason to try to draw attention to myself and shake up the thread by going against such a trusted player. And definitely not "try to lynch him". This makes no sense for any bad guy. I was just put off by the (let's name why people are civs) exercise and gave my honest opinion. It truly made me suspicious. And I actually believe that if I were to say..."hey guys... instead of looking for baddie behavior today, even though we're doing a shit-show job of finding them, let's name why we think people are CIV!", I'd be crucified for it. Sloonei or whoever... I'm just calling out what I find suspicious. If I were mafia, I wouldn't have said anything at all because I understand it just increases my own chance of being lynched. Sloonei is well trusted and was actually on my side for a while. This is a silly case.

[Elohcin]

I want to try an ISO or two. I can of course go to page one and click on a specific player's post. But on my phone, I cannot search said posts for anything specific. And with the number of posts people have it's going to be difficult. But I'm still going to try. I'll start by looking at wilgy (I know several of you have done so already) and seen what kind of connections I can find with others. Worth a shot, I guess. I have about an hour before I have to get ready to leave.

If you're using the chrome app you can tap the 3 dots in the upper right corner and select the "find in page" option, I've been using it a lot.

Yes! I am using the chrome app.... I will try this. Thank you so much!

[Elohcin]

I don't know about sig. I think that he may be civ. I can't see him up and leaving his team.

I think blooper could be bad. But if so, "that's bad luck 'ol boy" for our mafia team. Thirs person in that slot with really no participation. Did blooper even post more than once? I don't think she did.

why is sig possibly good and blooper possibly bad?

Did I not just answer this?

[nutella]

LC's case on DDL is intriguing but I think there's enough evidence pointing to town DDL that it's more in the realm of tinfoil imo.

At this point I'm feeling about 85% confident that Eloh is one of our lil hills, and the other one is probably niju. I have a short list of other possibilities if that's wrong

[Kylemii]

I want to try an ISO or two. I can of course go to page one and click on a specific player's post. But on my phone, I cannot search said posts for anything specific. And with the number of posts people have it's going to be difficult. But I'm still going to try. I'll start by looking at wilgy (I know several of you have done so already) and seen what kind of connections I can find with others. Worth a shot, I guess. I have about an hour before I have to get ready to leave.

If you're using the chrome app you can tap the 3 dots in the upper right corner and select the "find in page" option, I've been using it a lot.

Yes! I am using the chrome app.... I will try this. Thank you so much!

no problemo