Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[Sloonei]

My scum read on Kyle is contingent on him being made genuinely uncomfortable bu Jay's fake scumtell on him.

Please explain this.

Are you saying that I should have somehow known whether Jay was being real or not based on what my alignment is?

If you're both scum, you wouldn't have reacted the way you did.

I'm only asking about the part you said in the quote there, please forget about Jay for a minute. what do you think my reaction to Jay's gambit thing would be as a mafia? as a civ? why would they be different reactions?

All I meant was that your reaction is not indicative of a partnership with Jay because you appeared genuinely unnerved by it. But, since you asked, I think a town kyle would have reacted more calmly and understood Jay's tactic to just be a conversation starter and not a bogus smear campaign directed at kyle to get kyle lynched on Day 1.

[Kylemii]

Yeah I don't trust your calls to meta. It bothers me more that you said this than the rest of your play this game.

I don't care what bothers you. I won Phenon: Origins because the civilians were generally disengaged and did not try.

You won phenon because you took over as town leader, which you did by purposefully emulating your civvie style. Low activity allowed it to happen, but it wasn't the sole cause.

Number of relevant posts in this thread before I pooped: 0

Number of relevant posts in this thread after I pooped: 150+

You're welcome.

why this?

Non-fiction dialogue:

Anyone who really believes I would prefer to whip this thread into a frenzy for appearances than just let it snail along with nothing but theme-inspired chatter has no clue about my mafia-aligned play. No clue.

because a mafia jay would be totally relaxed just letting the thread stay dead quiet for any length of time. A maf jay wouldn't worry about emulating a civ Jay's well known meta at all. isn't that a little bit of a flawed statement?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You won phenon because you took over as town leader, which you did by purposefully emulating your civvie style. Low activity allowed it to happen, but it wasn't the sole cause.

I was able to take over as town leader because of the low activity. I was unable to take over as town leader in Mountain Mafia because of the high activity. Cultivating a thread environment that benefits my faction is perhaps the most important skill I have developed over the years as a Mafia player. I was actually close to getting there in Mountains too, but when dunya replaced in she re-ignited it (to her credit).

why this?

Because even now, after playing 7.313 x 10^23 games here and winning two-thirds of them, there still seems to be some doubt about the purpose or effectiveness of what I do.

because a mafia jay would be totally relaxed just letting the thread stay dead quiet for any length of time. A maf jay wouldn't worry about emulating a civ Jay's well known meta at all. isn't that a little bit of a flawed statement?

I didn't say I wouldn't emulate my meta. I said I wouldn't accelerate a thread so much. I have had success in the past pretending to try to accelerate a thread with good-for-appearances but ultimately ineffective calls for activity. The proposed strategy of intentionally blowing this thread up just to look like civilian Jay is crap, because I am not going to earn sufficient credit for doing so to offset the disadvantage I place myself and my teammates in by igniting the game thread.

I understand that people aren't going to feel comfortable taking that at face value. They rarely do. I am telling you anyway. And there will probably be a time in the future when I am mafia-aligned, and I play it exactly like I am telling you I would play it, and I get away with it because nobody remembers this conversation.

It has happened so many times.

[Kylemii]

All I meant was that your reaction is not indicative of a partnership with Jay because you appeared genuinely unnerved by it. But, since you asked, I think a town kyle would have reacted more calmly and understood Jay's tactic to just be a conversation starter and not a bogus smear campaign directed at kyle to get kyle lynched on Day 1.

okay but here's the thing? a town Kyle wouldn't and a town Kyle didn't.

a town Kyle and a hypothetical mafia Kyle share the same knowledge so why would a hypothetical mafia Kyle be less likely to understand Jay's intentions than a civ Kyle

a town Kyle reacted with paranoia because a town Kyle thought that Jay might have bad or shady intentions with his thing.

a mafia Kyle would have had contextual knowledge of Jay's alignment and would be able to figure out his intentions easier.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generally, I think it's easier for an observer to recognize what I am doing than the target of my poop. There's a personal bias involved, and some portion of the purpose of the maneuver is to provoke. I am not surprised or alarmed that Kyle was so defensive. There's an element of personality involved too -- I wouldn't expect every player to handle that the same way.

[Marmot]

You won phenon because you took over as town leader, which you did by purposefully emulating your civvie style. Low activity allowed it to happen, but it wasn't the sole cause.

I was able to take over as town leader because of the low activity.

And because I was lynched before I could swing my weight.

[Kylemii]

The proposed strategy of intentionally blowing this thread up just to look like civilian Jay is crap, because I am not going to earn sufficient credit for doing so to offset the disadvantage I place myself and my teammates in by igniting the game thread

but my problem with it is the implication that there is ever any risk associated with your day 0 meta at all, regardless of alignment.

the disadvantage to yourself is negligible because if you do the same risky thing every game no one is going to call you out on it, cus it's familiar.

and... the disadvantage to the mafia is also questionable. discussion has to start sometime, and it has to start somewhere. Civ Jay picks anyone, it doesn't matter who. Conversation spreads like cracks in the ice and like yes this is definitely a disadvantage for the mafia. But... mafia Jay picks a random player that's not on their team, draws attention to them and away from his teammates, this is a completely free advantage for the mafia since Jay won't draw attention for it cus he's just doing what he always does.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The proposed strategy of intentionally blowing this thread up just to look like civilian Jay is crap, because I am not going to earn sufficient credit for doing so to offset the disadvantage I place myself and my teammates in by igniting the game thread

but my problem with it is the implication that there is ever any risk associated with your day 0 meta at all, regardless of alignment.

the disadvantage to yourself is negligible because if you do the same risky thing every game no one is going to call you out on it, cus it's familiar.

and... the disadvantage to the mafia is also questionable. discussion has to start sometime, and it has to start somewhere. Civ Jay picks anyone, it doesn't matter who. Conversation spreads like cracks in the ice and like yes this is definitely a disadvantage for the mafia. But... mafia Jay picks a random player that's not on their team, draws attention to them and away from his teammates, this is a completely free advantage for the mafia since Jay won't draw attention for it cus he's just doing what he always does.

I understand why you feel that way. I don't. I think a truly accelerated game thread sucks ass for a mafia team and I don't subject myself and my teammates to that just to earn meta credit. There are better ways for evil Jay to look like himself and I have used them effectively many times (e.g. huge, substantive analytic posts which look very JJJ and do nothing to accelerate a game thread). I am a calculated player with very precise conceptions of risk and benefit.

Believe me or don't, this entire dialogue is just WIFOM to people who aren't me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I haven't believed any post Epignosis has put in this thread that ties in any way to me. I welcome other perspectives, because right now I feel perfectly comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

[Long Con]

This section is sketchy, Kyle, it reads like it's written by someone with a mafia alignment. "you've never even seen me play as mafia before" implies you're mafia now, and the statement that there's "not enough to build correlation from" implies that there could be enough at some point, but if you're Civ, then the idea would be that "correlation is impossible because I'm not bad."

This section is sketchy, Long Con. You've shoved words into Kylemii's face and said "These are the civilian words. You didn't say the civilian words." as if there aren't multiple possible examples of a civilian response to my poop.

That's a dumbed-down version of what I was saying. I gave an example of a Civilian perspective to make my point more clear. I didn't tell him what he had to say, I told him what what he said felt like to me.

This section is sketchy, Kyle, it reads like it's written by someone with a mafia alignment. "you've never even seen me play as mafia before" implies you're mafia now, and the statement that there's "not enough to build correlation from" implies that there could be enough at some point, but if you're Civ, then the idea would be that "correlation is impossible because I'm not bad."

This section is sketchy, Long Con. You've shoved words into Kylemii's face and said "These are the civilian words. You didn't say the civilian words." as if there aren't multiple possible examples of a civilian response to my poop.

So it was poop? And you think LC ate it?

I ate it, but I puked it back up.

I want to be clear that I didn't eat any poop. I had nothing to do with JJJ's supposed tell in my post.

LC picks out the specific part of my response that supports his point despite the fact that the part he cropped out makes his point of agreement less meaningful.

Looking back, that is true. It was unintentional - I like to cut down quotes to the part I'm responding to for easier reading, and I lost that relevant part and reacted to just my slice. Kyle said that it's 100% false before the part I analyzed.

Y'all please tell me about Epignosis's last post.

He rightly asserts that I shouldn't be assumed good because I make stuff happen. He then parlays that into "hang Jay and Sloonei", as though "doesn't make him good" is equivalent to "makes them bad".

No thanks. I won't be needing any of that today.

It's not something I'm taking very seriously. Is Epi really going to pursue your lynches?

Jay and I have been scum partners once. It was in Street Fighter. He bussed me on Day 1 and then subbed out.

I just made a post of only adverbs in response to Epi.

Badass.

Do you scum read me?

I don't quite scum read you but I don't town read you yet either.

You haven't done the things I expect town Sloonei to do yet which is a cause for concern.

I would like to eventually know what those things are, because it would help me to believe this statement is real.

[Kylemii]

Believe me or don't, this entire dialogue is just WIFOM to people who aren't me.

the other stuff you've said basically amounts to sandbagging but this part is a valid point, I think

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I want to be clear that I didn't eat any poop.

I'm okay with this game, because this sentence exists.

[Kylemii]

LC picks out the specific part of my response that supports his point despite the fact that the part he cropped out makes his point of agreement less meaningful.

Looking back, that is true. It was unintentional - I like to cut down quotes to the part I'm responding to for easier reading, and I lost that relevant part and reacted to just my slice. Kyle said that it's 100% false before the part I analyzed.

It's alright.

Do you scum read me?

I don't quite scum read you but I don't town read you yet either.

You haven't done the things I expect town Sloonei to do yet which is a cause for concern.

I would like to eventually know what those things are, because it would help me to believe this statement is real.

well to summarize it, I expect Sloonei to ride around on his bike throwing rocks in people's spokes. Always trying to get their wheels to skip, to see if their mafia baseball cards fall out of their pockets. Similar to how early Jay operates but with a different composure and also his name is blue. He puts out his tentacles and feels shit out, asks people probing questions, gets people involved when they aren't involved. That's how I see him at least.

I haven't seen those things yet.

[Dyslexicon]

Dobroe utro!

[Dyslexicon]

Oh wow, the bass player turned into a fish. This must be a metaphor for my state of mind.

[Dyslexicon]

So far, Kyle is very likely town. The rest is whatever. Except everyone are super cute and adorable. <3

[MacDougall]

This post exists for no reason at all. Enjoy.

[MacDougall]

Jimmy is scum because Epi makes perfect sense and Jimmy is trying to pretend he isn't.

[Epignosis]

Number of relevant posts in this thread before I pooped: 0

Number of relevant posts in this thread after I pooped: 150+

You're welcome.

Relevant posts within twelve hours of the game starting (while most people were in bed): 0

Relevant posts since then: More than 0.

[Epignosis]

JaggedJimmyJay remains my #1 suspect. He wasn't trying to learn anything about Kyle or from other people. He was just trying to look like he was.

3J, you're bad at pretending.

I'm interested in an elaboration on this. Are there examples of Jay using his standard day 0 maneuver in a game where Jay was mafia? Did he do this in phenon or pirate?

I'm not interested in examples in which so-and-so did such-and-such as mafia.

What 3J describes is something that is very easy to replicate Day 1 when you are mafia, and on my end it looks like a quick way to establish early credibility: He is patting himself on the back for generating content by calling you bad based on some "tell" that apparently everyone but you knew didn't exist.

That doesn't impress me.

The votes appear to be changeable.

I was in bed, but I assume this means 3J voted for me before even finding out if votes could be changed or not.

Do you think a civilian 3J would cast a potentially permanent vote so early?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Number of relevant posts in this thread before I pooped: 0

Number of relevant posts in this thread after I pooped: 150+

You're welcome.

Relevant posts within twelve hours of the game starting (while most people were in bed): 0

Relevant posts since then: More than 0.

Yeah, I had nothing to do with driving that change.

Obtuse.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JaggedJimmyJay remains my #1 suspect. He wasn't trying to learn anything about Kyle or from other people. He was just trying to look like he was.

3J, you're bad at pretending.

I'm interested in an elaboration on this. Are there examples of Jay using his standard day 0 maneuver in a game where Jay was mafia? Did he do this in phenon or pirate?

I'm not interested in examples in which so-and-so did such-and-such as mafia.

What 3J describes is something that is very easy to replicate Day 1 when you are mafia, and on my end it looks like a quick way to establish early credibility: He is patting himself on the back for generating content by calling you bad based on some "tell" that apparently everyone but you knew didn't exist.

That doesn't impress me.

The votes appear to be changeable.

I was in bed, but I assume this means 3J voted for me before even finding out if votes could be changed or not.

Do you think a civilian 3J would cast a potentially permanent vote so early?

You’re mafia because you think my objective should be to “impress you”. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

Regarding the vote, I actually didn’t even consider that it may not be changeable until the moment I submitted. Very few games have employed that rule recently, but I did recognize in the moment that DFaraday may be old school.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jimmy is scum because Epi makes perfect sense and Jimmy is trying to pretend he isn't.

Snore.

Show me what makes so much sense.

[Epignosis]

You won phenon because you took over as town leader, which you did by purposefully emulating your civvie style. Low activity allowed it to happen, but it wasn't the sole cause.

I was able to take over as town leader because of the low activity. I was unable to take over as town leader in Mountain Mafia because of the high activity. Cultivating a thread environment that benefits my faction is perhaps the most important skill I have developed over the years as a Mafia player. I was actually close to getting there in Mountains too, but when dunya replaced in she re-ignited it (to her credit).

I'm the one who put out that fire. dunya didn't even vote for you. She voted alongside you.

[MacDougall]

JaggedJimmyJay remains my #1 suspect. He wasn't trying to learn anything about Kyle or from other people. He was just trying to look like he was.

3J, you're bad at pretending.

I'm interested in an elaboration on this. Are there examples of Jay using his standard day 0 maneuver in a game where Jay was mafia? Did he do this in phenon or pirate?

I'm not interested in examples in which so-and-so did such-and-such as mafia.

What 3J describes is something that is very easy to replicate Day 1 when you are mafia, and on my end it looks like a quick way to establish early credibility: He is patting himself on the back for generating content by calling you bad based on some "tell" that apparently everyone but you knew didn't exist.

That doesn't impress me.

The votes appear to be changeable.

I was in bed, but I assume this means 3J voted for me before even finding out if votes could be changed or not.

Do you think a civilian 3J would cast a potentially permanent vote so early?

You’re mafia because you think my objective should be to “impress you”. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

Regarding the vote, I actually didn’t even consider that it may not be changeable until the moment I submitted. Very few games have employed that rule recently, but I did recognize in the moment that DFaraday may be old school.

Holy misrepresentation to suit your nefarious requirements batman.

[MacDougall]

Jimmy is scum because Epi makes perfect sense and Jimmy is trying to pretend he isn't.

Snore.

Show me what makes so much sense.

Just read his iso. You are in shit sling mode because Epi is on the verge of handing you your ass. None of your arguments against him are rational. You are doubling down on omgus because it's wifom and your day 1 is a choreographed mimicry of your usual play without the common sense.

[MacDougall]

I also note the fact that Sloonei put distance between you two when Epi started to question the idea that you were teammates.

[Epignosis]

Yo (I'm pretty sure that's Yiddish for "What's up with this?"):

speedchuck isn't on the poll.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jimmy is scum because Epi makes perfect sense and Jimmy is trying to pretend he isn't.

Snore.

Show me what makes so much sense.

Just read his iso. You are in shit sling mode because Epi is on the verge of handing you your ass. None of your arguments against him are rational. You are doubling down on omgus because it's wifom and your day 1 is a choreographed mimicry of your usual play without the common sense.

Cool, do that thing where you don’t actually answer shit. I think you’re town, because at this point in his Mafia life the only MacDougall who ever really trusts JJJ at all is scum MacDougall. The only memory I can recall is Talking Heads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You won phenon because you took over as town leader, which you did by purposefully emulating your civvie style. Low activity allowed it to happen, but it wasn't the sole cause.

I was able to take over as town leader because of the low activity. I was unable to take over as town leader in Mountain Mafia because of the high activity. Cultivating a thread environment that benefits my faction is perhaps the most important skill I have developed over the years as a Mafia player. I was actually close to getting there in Mountains too, but when dunya replaced in she re-ignited it (to her credit).

I'm the one who put out that fire. dunya didn't even vote for you. She voted alongside you.

You did well to drive my lynch specifically. She re-activated a thread that was dying. That’s the number one reason my team was exposed by POE after I was gone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis is my final vote. The guy said it’s same shit different day, meaning he is well aware that my play in this game is ordinary for a civilian JJJ. His case is contngent upon that.

Just think that through, people.

[novaselinenever]

Hello guys,

I just got informed that someone was uncomfortable with my avatar (pepe the frog) and that it may have hurt them. I deleted it immediately and would like to apologize to the person or persons I made uncomfortable with it. I really feel bad and I am very sorry.

Hope you'll enjoy the game from now on,

[MacDougall]

Jimmy is scum because Epi makes perfect sense and Jimmy is trying to pretend he isn't.

Snore.

Show me what makes so much sense.

Just read his iso. You are in shit sling mode because Epi is on the verge of handing you your ass. None of your arguments against him are rational. You are doubling down on omgus because it's wifom and your day 1 is a choreographed mimicry of your usual play without the common sense.

Cool, do that thing where you don’t actually answer shit. I think you’re town, because at this point in his Mafia life the only MacDougall who ever really trusts JJJ at all is scum MacDougall. The only memory I can recall is Talking Heads.

Nah I just can't iso on my phone to do what you asked tbh and it's after midnight. I'll do it tomorrow fam.

I trust you most of the time tbh. I just go through periods in some games where i develop paranoia because of how much trust you gain. Here I feel like you have been acting from the outset.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’m frankly fine with being mislynched if Epignosis gets hanged immediately thereafter. Sometimes that’s what it takes for anyone to critically assess that dude.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Y'all please tell me about Epignosis's last post.

He rightly asserts that I shouldn't be assumed good because I make stuff happen. He then parlays that into "hang Jay and Sloonei", as though "doesn't make him good" is equivalent to "makes them bad".

No thanks. I won't be needing any of that today.

This isn't a parlay.

This is a hedge.

You and Sloonei are lapdogs to each other.

Insincere

Bogus

When you two are teammates, you will maintain a significant advantage over people who blindly assume you will lead the civilians to victory.

I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen.

This is the biggest load of shit I've ever seen Epignosis dump into a Mafia thread.

I don't think he's this bad a civilian. I don't think I thirst for his blood so fervently if he doesn't put this bogus Sloonei/JJJ team angle in the thread on Day 0. He did. Murder him, even if you murder me first.

[speedchuck]

Yo (I'm pretty sure that's Yiddish for "What's up with this?"):

speedchuck isn't on the poll.

Awesome!

[speedchuck]

Believe me or don't, this entire dialogue is just WIFOM to people who aren't me.

the other stuff you've said basically amounts to sandbagging but this part is a valid point, I think

That's not a point. That's like... a disclaimer or something.

[Epignosis]

This is the biggest load of shit I've ever seen Epignosis dump into a Mafia thread.

Sorry, but you'll have to wait until next year to nominate that for "The Biggest Load of Shit Epignosis has Ever Dumped into a Mafia Thread."

[speedchuck]

I’m frankly fine with being mislynched if Epignosis gets hanged immediately thereafter. Sometimes that’s what it takes for anyone to critically assess that dude.

So you're saying there's practically ~0% chance you are both town? Cause if not, you've consigned us to two mislynches there. Which is more of a frustrated action than one that is seeking the best for town.

NAI, necessarily.

[speedchuck]

Doesn't look like I'm going to be able to lynch Kylemii today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’m frankly fine with being mislynched if Epignosis gets hanged immediately thereafter. Sometimes that’s what it takes for anyone to critically assess that dude.

So you're saying there's practically ~0% chance you are both town? Cause if not, you've consigned us to two mislynches there. Which is more of a frustrated action than one that is seeking the best for town.

NAI, necessarily.

He's as strong a mafia read as I can reasonably have on Day 1. If anyone can give me a good reason Epignosis would really believe that Sloonei and I are teammates and that stopping us should be his priority, with the content in this very same Day 1 game thread, I'm open to listening. That bullshit has my vote planted.

[Sloonei]

Doesn't look like I'm going to be able to lynch Kylemii today.

You still have my support, but I'm growing less confident by virtue of the growing Jay suspicion.

[Sloonei]

I’m frankly fine with being mislynched if Epignosis gets hanged immediately thereafter. Sometimes that’s what it takes for anyone to critically assess that dude.

So you're saying there's practically ~0% chance you are both town? Cause if not, you've consigned us to two mislynches there. Which is more of a frustrated action than one that is seeking the best for town.

NAI, necessarily.

He's as strong a mafia read as I can reasonably have on Day 1. If anyone can give me a good reason Epignosis would really believe that Sloonei and I are teammates and that stopping us should be his priority, with the content in this very same Day 1 game thread, I'm open to listening. That bullshit has my vote planted.

I can't give you a reason why he'd think and I don't think he could either. What I don't see is why a Day 0/1 lie makes Epignosis scum. This is almost a mirror image of your earlier turd.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can't give you a reason why he'd think and I don't think he could either. What I don't see is why a Day 0/1 lie makes Epignosis scum. This is almost a mirror image of your earlier turd.

I do think it's a turd, but not the sort being dropped for the sake of moving a thread. He has morphed that turd into a very real "lynch 3J" agenda, and it's all bogus.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can't give you a reason why he'd think and I don't think he could either. What I don't see is why a Day 0/1 lie makes Epignosis scum. This is almost a mirror image of your earlier turd.

What is your read on MacDougall?

[Sloonei]

I can't give you a reason why he'd think and I don't think he could either. What I don't see is why a Day 0/1 lie makes Epignosis scum. This is almost a mirror image of your earlier turd.

I do think it's a turd, but not the sort being dropped for the sake of moving a thread. He has morphed that turd into a very real "lynch 3J" agenda, and it's all bogus.

As with kyle before, I think this agenda stems more from your reaction than Epi's initial premise. Note that there is no Lynch Sloonei agenda outside of a single limp jab from Mac earlier.

Talk about other people. Spacdaisy and LoRab and Dyslexicon have all said things without receiving much attention.

[Sloonei]

I can't give you a reason why he'd think and I don't think he could either. What I don't see is why a Day 0/1 lie makes Epignosis scum. This is almost a mirror image of your earlier turd.

What is your read on MacDougall?

I don't disbelieve that he would act the way that he's acting as town, but there's not enough there to have a solid read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can't give you a reason why he'd think and I don't think he could either. What I don't see is why a Day 0/1 lie makes Epignosis scum. This is almost a mirror image of your earlier turd.

What is your read on MacDougall?

I don't disbelieve that he would act the way that he's acting as town, but there's not enough there to have a solid read.

Specifically, he has adopted Epignosis's suspicion of a Sloonei/JJJ team as being viable. You think that suspicion was a lie in the first place. What does that mean to you?

[Sloonei]

So far, Kyle is very likely town. The rest is whatever. Except everyone are super cute and adorable. <3

I'd like to hear more about why kyle is likely town. Also, what is your experience with the Kyle?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Eek! I'm here!!!! Went to bed before first post was up last night and then one of those days where I didn't actually have time to check in. I need to get used to scheduling games into my day again!! I'm totally distracted tonight by life, so unsure about thread goings on. I need to reread to figure out what I think about Kyle, J, Epi, etc. I should be around a bunch tomorrow.

And totally appreciating all of the thread jewiness, btw! Shalom, y'all!

This is LoRab's only non-green post. There's a little player salad. It's not my favorite post. She should be given a chance to say more in the coming hours.