Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[FZ.]

My options at the moment are LC, and then Kyle/Wilgy

[nutella]

everyone completely ignored my long late-night post

I don't think I still believe my Jay tinfoil at the moment, but I had a great point on Spacedaisy and everyone completely ignored it (maybe because of Dizzy's plea not to talk about that thing but I really didn't follow that, I think I missed something in that exchange that others picked up on)

[Sloonei]

asdlfka;sldf ok Jay is much better at this interaction analysis than I am but there are too many likely teammates

I do think spacedaisy is the best choice for next lynch but LC, Marmot, and maybe even wilgy are looking plausible.

What about kyle?

oh yeah kyle also. ughh too many possibilities when there are only 2

I feel good about the POE. It's only going to be Day 3, each team has lost one member, and we're able to (I think) rule out a handful of players from suspicion.

[Sloonei]

everyone completely ignored my long late-night post

I don't think I still believe my Jay tinfoil at the moment, but I had a great point on Spacedaisy and everyone completely ignored it (maybe because of Dizzy's plea not to talk about that thing but I really didn't follow that, I think I missed something in that exchange that others picked up on)

I followed your point on daisy. Disagreed on Jay, but daisy is a good suspect.

[FZ.]

Does anyone have the order of the votes? When did Wilgy vote for Kyle? When did Kyle vote for Daisy? And when did Daisy vote for Nutella?

@linki: I only read the part about JJJ and I'm sorry, I just don't see him as bad, especially when I consider LC bad.
What did you say about Daisy?

[Sloonei]

Can anyone give me a reason to trust Wilgy?

@linki: thanks

On Day 1 he had his vote on me late but then changed it to kyle and tried to get a late bandwagon against him (or at least appeared to try). Scum wilgy could have just stayed on me without much trouble

[FZ.]

Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

[FZ.]

Can anyone give me a reason to trust Wilgy?

@linki: thanks

On Day 1 he had his vote on me late but then changed it to kyle and tried to get a late bandwagon against him (or at least appeared to try). Scum wilgy could have just stayed on me without much trouble

Yeah, but it's Wilgy. He does crazy things. Sadly, I can't hold him to the standards I hold the rest

[nutella]

Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

Dizzy kept repeating the same nonsensical reason to vote for Jay

[FZ.]

Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

Dizzy kept repeating the same nonsensical reason to vote for Jay

Wow, I'm impressed. That's a smart move if you're forced to vote for someone. Say your reason over and over again.
That said, are the mafia allowed to curse themselves? We've done that where I've played before to make ourselves look like civvies

[nutella]

Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

Dizzy kept repeating the same nonsensical reason to vote for Jay

Wow, I'm impressed. That's a smart move if you're forced to vote for someone. Say your reason over and over again.
That said, are the mafia allowed to curse themselves? We've done that where I've played before to make ourselves look like civvies

I would assume so, and I did consider that possibility. Dizzy's weird behavior around talking about it is throwing me off though.

[Sloonei]

Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

Dyslexicon kept saying cryptic things that didn't seem to make sense

[Kylemii]

voted daisy to preserve the tie, I'm okay with letting the rabbi choose

Which person did you move off of?

i didn't. I don't tend to vote until the eod when i can be most informed of current events. I'm considering changing this though.

[Sloonei]

[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention] where dem juicy thoughts at?

[Sloonei]

Kyle, who should we lynch tomorrow?

[Kylemii]

Does anyone have the order of the votes? When did Wilgy vote for Kyle? When did Kyle vote for Daisy? And when did Daisy vote for Nutella?

@linki: I only read the part about JJJ and I'm sorry, I just don't see him as bad, especially when I consider LC bad.
What did you say about Daisy?

I believe I was the last player to vote, lorab and long con were tied 4-4.

[Kylemii]

Kyle, who should we lynch tomorrow?

Idk yet, I want to look into long con and jay still.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm caught up with curren events. Let me try to get out some reads.

Epi - Is not mafia. No way does Lorab act that way towards a teammate. I already thought Epi was town. He definitely cares about the roof.

Sloonei - I've had such a headache reading him until he basically got the Lorab lynch rolling. His engagement with Lorab really reads like Lorab is committed to discussing with him in a way that makes her scum and him town. So that was extremely helpful and saves from a lot of "aaaaaaargh!" I would say Sloonei is building a roof even if he's being frantic about it sometimes.

Nut - Alright, so reading through I had more and more nagging thoughts about Nut. Her tone is more aggressive than I've been used to, she's never wavered in her read on me and I started getting a bit paranoid about that - BUT - I think it's highly unlikely that Lorab would soft defend Nut like she did and accuse her voters if they were teamed. Plus, Nut did vote Lorab in the end after some flailing, so that looks really good. And I also already town read Nut really, cause Nut is Nut and even when she's nuts she's Nut. She's a roof builder.

Mac - My position here hasn't really changed. I think Mac is most likely town just from effort and posting style. I just like it. I don't know him, but I don't think he needs to go after Wilgy/Marmot (especially Marmot with the reasoning that he doesn't believe Marmot is sincere in his suspicion) if he is scum. If Mac is scum, Marmot is basically the only one voicing suspicion on him, and as scum I think it would be easier to brush that away than holding Marmot responsible for it.

FZ. - I mean, I've liked her posts more and more, and I think she came across sincere in her interaction with LC. She did vote LC over Lorab, but it's not like that wasn't announced or explained.

JJJ - I could probably write an essay on all the things JJJ has said and done that I definitely don't like at all. Yeah. For real yo, what are you even doing. I've decided I have a place for him in my heart, but I'm not totally sure of this. As in, I think he can check the material for us while we're roof building at least. I particularly don't like him pretty much ignoring the scumminess in Lorab right in front of him all of the day end. He even ISO'd Lorab and said it didn't look great, but when she was a viable wagon it was all "lalala - LC? Dizzy?" Pft. JJJ is also someone I could see as 3p, but something else, specifically, is more likely, which would point to town.

Speed - I'm not giving Speed any town credit from Lorab's spew. I actually think her weak suspicions on him reflects poorly on him. I also found him rather apathetic around day end, and he seemed really resistant to understand where I was coming from. That said, he did vote Lorab, so yay? Maybe I'm just sour cause I hate when players make cases on me, and it's pretty much them putting "scum subtitles" under all of my posts. Rawr.

Marmot - There have been a few instances of Marmot saying things that made my brain go "Hm, I think this is town". But I do tend to think that a Marmot has good tone overall regardless of alignment. He doesn't seem to really go anywhere. Where are you going, Marmot? I think him voting alongside Lorab actually looks better on him. Not my first pick for mafia, but he should be watched while we're building the roof.

Wilgy - I literally have no read on Wilgy. Other's have said he's town. Ok. I have no read on him at all.

LC - The only thing LC has going for him now is that Lorab used his case to go after Speed. That would be a case of scum following scum, which is less common. Nothing else looks great for LC. I wouldn't let LC fix the roof without a guardian.

Daisy - I actually think Daisy has some things going for her. When she came in I found her original take on a Epi/JJJ scum team to be a positive (cause it seemed rather wild), and I also think she cared about being mislynched in a town way that said "why are you not using this information?" HOWEVER - if she is indeed scum she knows who's not, and it may be that using the fail that was the Daisy 1.0 lynch is very much in scum's interest if all or most of the voters are loud and influental town. There's also things I really don't like about Daisy which is basically 1) how she handles the case that is me, including reading me as town without giving firm justifaction and 2) how she relates to Lorab, basically with apathy. She may be a roof hater.

Kyle - I don't think he cares about the roof anymore. I think he has suspicious interaction with Lorab, and I don't like his under the radar posting since the whole start of the game. I also think he has been overplaying how emotional he was. I'm like "nah, not buying this anymore".

NVN - I should read the setup cause lol - but do we have a vig? >_>

---

The reads on JJJ and Speed hurts the most to write down. I have tinfoils, but who cares about that when I also do have ice cream?

[nutella]

Kyle, who should we lynch tomorrow?

Idk yet, I want to look into long con and jay still.

How do you feel about Spacedaisy?

[Dyslexicon]

Oh wow, my town reads are so town they aren't even visible. Here also in purple:

Epi - Is not mafia. No way does Lorab act that way towards a teammate. I already thought Epi was town. He definitely cares about the roof.

Sloonei - I've had such a headache reading him until he basically got the Lorab lynch rolling. His engagement with Lorab really reads like Lorab is committed to discussing with him in a way that makes her scum and him town. So that was extremely helpful and saves from a lot of "aaaaaaargh!" I would say Sloonei is building a roof even if he's being frantic about it sometimes.

Nut - Alright, so reading through I had more and more nagging thoughts about Nut. Her tone is more aggressive than I've been used to, she's never wavered in her read on me and I started getting a bit paranoid about that - BUT - I think it's highly unlikely that Lorab would soft defend Nut like she did and accuse her voters if they were teamed. Plus, Nut did vote Lorab in the end after some flailing, so that looks really good. And I also already town read Nut really, cause Nut is Nut and even when she's nuts she's Nut. She's a roof builder.

[Dyslexicon]

I would assume so, and I did consider that possibility. Dizzy's weird behavior around talking about it is throwing me off though.

Talk about what? There's nothing to talk about. Let's not do it and definitely not do it in the future. =P But really, let's move on.

[Kylemii]

Kyle, who should we lynch tomorrow?

Idk yet, I want to look into long con and jay still.

How do you feel about Spacedaisy?

I had her as a town read cus she seemed like she'd hopped back into the same mindset she's had before she died. She'd be worth looking into again through the "lorab was mafia" lens after the last lynch though

[Kylemii]

i think the implication is that there's negative consequences for discussing the thing that dizzy asks us not to discuss

[Sloonei]

Could you elaborate on your speedchuck read, dizzy? Why does LoRab's treatment of him not reflect well to you?

[Dyslexicon]

Answering concerns about me, although I don't know if they are all relevant anymore:

@JJJ - The reason I didn't have decive answers to the you vs Epi thing and didn't want to talk about it was precisely because of where my attention was at: There was a lot of noice with the higher posters throwing mud at each other. I was more interested in the quieter players doing just enough to skate by. I also did not what to make of you and Epi at that time, and the fight didn't help that. There was no flips D1 and a flip on Daisy 1.0 after that, a town flip from a player with almost no activety. I didn't have conclusive reads on you two - should I? You've played scum alongside me, and I have no problem making shit up all day long. Again, I was more focused on widening the net to other players where I thought there could very well be scum hiding. More of this in my answer to Sloonei.

@Speed - I thought your case on me was really bad. I don't at all think that I've been as "nothing" as you say. I also think you sidestepping what you actual can learn about my meta, while at the same time claiming that you are using meta from Phenon as a reason to suspect me looks terrible. I even told you: In the Currents game you had me top town after D1, and I'm pretty sure it's because I was the "usual, active, sassy" Dizzy that you were used to from Phenon (don't think you had any other game to base it on). Rawr.

@Sloonei - If you still have doubt about my alignment, please note how much I brought up "hey what about players like Lorab" D1. Also, for future reference, does anyone remember how I was the only one calling out Marmot D1 in Phenon and ended up with a lone vote on him that day, and then later he flipped scum? I think everyone should just sheep me D1 every game. Thanks.

If there's any other concerns about me, speak to my lawyer.

[Sloonei]

I didn't question your alignment, dizzy. I asked about why lorab's treatment of speedchuck isn't a good luck for him?

[Dyslexicon]

Could you elaborate on your speedchuck read, dizzy? Why does LoRab's treatment of him not reflect well to you?

Cause it's weak. She was primarely after Epi. And then Speed was more of a side issue. It just sounded weaker, and like it could be distancing. Also, I'm a very OMGUSy player and Speed did not want to be my buddy at all and I'm pouty about it. >:( But in all seriousness, I think he deserves some scrutiny here.

Also also - Can we like post openly in thread where the votes are at from time to time? I'm so used to that being information posted in thread. Not having that makes vote analysis very hard. I will do this if I stay alive long enough.

[Dyslexicon]

I didn't question your alignment, dizzy. I asked about why lorab's treatment of speedchuck isn't a good luck for him?

It was a general offer for you in case you are questioning my alignment, it was not a response to your one question. Take from it what you want/need.

[Dyslexicon]

I want to move Nut slightly down my list for icky gut feelings. When I last saw her as scum I was shocked. It doesn't sit right with me to clear her, so I won't.

[Sloonei]

I didn't question your alignment, dizzy. I asked about why lorab's treatment of speedchuck isn't a good luck for him?

It was a general offer for you in case you are questioning my alignment, it was not a response to your one question. Take from it what you want/need.

I don't think you're bad right now.

[Dyslexicon]

I promise all of my questions are designed to go somewhere.

I think I get the difference. I think I'm way less methodical and way more general in viewing the game. I've seen you ask questions that I've understood the value of knowing, but that I myself just assume the answers to, and then when the player answers it's usually some variant of what I assumed. Probably not always. This is not invalidating your method or anything, it's just pointing out it's different to mine, and so it has confused me sometimes.

[Kylemii]

i want to point out... if lorab and I were teammates I would have had incentive to not preserve the tie. I hadn't had any particularly strong reads on either lorab or LC and was trying to understand the arguments behind both at day end, drunk mafia Kyle could have easily voted for either under the pretense of being convinced by something someone said. there would have been nothing stopping drunk maf Kyle from saving LR or dunking her for town credit.

drunk civ Kyle chose to let the rabbi decide

but Kyle! What if both LC and Lorabs are mafia, maybe you voted daisy to save LC too? You fool, you imbecile.

well, no. If I were a mafia and 2 of my teammates were in the lead over anyone by more than one votes, that would mean one of them were definitely be going down. maf Kyle would want to be a part of it. Maf Kyle would absolutely opportunity to make sure the more powerful role, or the player with the more salvageable reputation survived, giving himself civ credit at the same time.

but isn't that just a lot of wifom?

mmmore like aifom (ale inside of me)

[Sloonei]

I promise all of my questions are designed to go somewhere.

I think I get the difference. I think I'm way less methodical and way more general in viewing the game. I've seen you ask questions that I've understood the value of knowing, but that I myself just assume the answers to, and then when the player answers it's usually some variant of what I assumed. Probably not always. This is not invalidating your method or anything, it's just pointing out it's different to mine, and so it has confused me sometimes.

Yeah, my thing is to make people talk, even if I can guess what they're going to say. That way everything's on record later on.

[Dyslexicon]

And this is why I find it difficult with votes not being open in thread. The shenanigans around day end goes by so quickly, and I was not here when it happened.

End of day seems to be rather unpredictable on this site. As the game progress I would be more comfortable with larger wagons.

There's a general tendency of defenses being "If I was scum I wouldn't...", like Kyle here now and like JJJ tried to argue at the beginning of the game when he tried to take credit for creating all the content around Kyle - but the things is - Scum also have to act in the moment. It's not possible to be this big genius carefully planning out every action and predict how the thread will react to it. A lot of it just acting in the moment. I find the "I wouldn't..." not very convincing because of this, because what those arguments really should say is "If I knew all the information about how everything was going to go down back when it happened, I wouldn't..."

In other words, it just doesn't work in hindsight. It's also a defense I use a lot when I'm scum myself.

So, both game relevant and general comment.

I need to do something else noe, cause I've been spending all day on this game. Lol, life.

[Kylemii]

i mean i get that but there's a difference between wifom and willfully making purposeful bad decisions.

[Kylemii]

i only say it because the concept of me voting for spacedaisy to save lorab or long con is being pushed around as if it's a realistic theory and it really isn't

[Epignosis]

I've started dipping into interactions, and I've come upon a disheartening conclusion. LoRab was another in a growing line of recent mafia lynches who were cased with "player salad". That tell has been so money. It's only a matter of time until the site adjusts.

First time I ever got lynched?

Zany Dex called me out for something similar.

I was bad.

I damn sure learned.

[Sloonei]

i only say it because the concept of me voting for spacedaisy to save lorab or long con is being pushed around as if it's a realistic theory and it really isn't

This has nothing to do with why I suspect you, for the record. Well maybe a little, but only in the sense that you chose to essentially abstain from the vote.

[Kylemii]

i only say it because the concept of me voting for spacedaisy to save lorab or long con is being pushed around as if it's a realistic theory and it really isn't

This has nothing to do with why I suspect you, for the record. Well maybe a little, but only in the sense that you chose to essentially abstain from the vote.

I know, I wasn't talking about you.

I guess abstaining from the vote is technically an accurate description of what I did, but i did so because i trusted the Rabbi to be able to make a more educated decision than I could have done at that point in time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kyle, you're all about the proximity analysis but the majority of your recent posts are analyzing yourself and defending yourself. What are you about, m8?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Daisy, please talk about your transition from this:

Spoiler: show

The most pressing question emerging from this then would be: Epignosis, why won't you be voting for me today?

Because you're a shitty Day 1 lynch.

Why?

Now you're just fishing for compliments.
Because if you are good, then that's an active, vocal, passionate mafia-hunter gone, one who didn't even get a real chance to catch anybody.
And if you are bad, then that's an active, vocal, passionate mafia member who will be interacting thoroughly with his teammates.

This ^ is not a baddie mind set. If Epi is bad why this?

To this:

Daisy 2.0
Kyle
Mac
Wilgy
Dyslexicon

FZ.
Long Con

Lorab
Marmot
NVN

Sloonei
Speed
Nutella

Epi
Jay

I am already aware of your mega-tinfoil thing that Epignosis and I are both Mafia. Are you saying then that you believed so strongly in this tinfoil that it negated your prior question?

[Kylemii]

Kyle, you're all about the proximity analysis but the majority of your recent posts are analyzing yourself and defending yourself. What are you about, m8?

I've been dealing with a mild hangover this morning so I'm kinda chilling in the dark rn. that combined with the burglary has left me without the time or energy to do ISO's yet. I plan to start with you, LC, Spacedaisy 2.0, and maybe some other Long Con voters. do you have any other suggestions?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kyle, you're all about the proximity analysis but the majority of your recent posts are analyzing yourself and defending yourself. What are you about, m8?

I've been dealing with a mild hangover this morning so I'm kinda chilling in the dark rn. that combined with the burglary has left me without the time or energy to do ISO's yet. I plan to start with you, LC, Spacedaisy 2.0, and maybe some other Long Con voters. do you have any other suggestions?

That's a fair start. Do your thing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

LoRab and Davedaisy

It appears LoRab did not mention this player slot except to welcome Daisy back.

Spoiler: show

You know you're invested in a game when you have to be up in five hours but you just can't help but answer one more post... lol

That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?

Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.

Jay
Ugh can I say both on Epi and Sloonei? GTH, I'm going with Epi.
And these last two are harder to choose because I have so little read on one or both...
I would say FZ. Based on the fact I am reading Dyslexicon as one of four hard town reads right now
And I don't know, maybe Lorab? No real read on either of them other than Marmot seemed genuinely frustrated when he thought he was being lynched. But baddies can be frustrated too.

I have a question for @MacDougall please. Why did you talk like you wanted to stop my lynch but not put any actions behind it? You just sat with your vote on me.

Daisy said she'd shoot LoRab over Marmot, but voiced little confidence in the matter. I don't fault her here, as her perspective wasn't that different from my own -- Marmot did have minimal civilian credit and LoRab had none.

Spoiler: show

Thoughts on some of my yellows and oranges. Lorab, I guess I don't know why it is others are pinged by there, so I would welcome someone to share it with me. I don't have a read on either her or Marmot. I mean I could gut read Marmot a little higher, but I'm afraid it would be based on his emotional appeals and last time I went with that I lost the game for the civs in Phenon. NVN, nothing to base a read on. If this were a GTH I would say bad but only as a kind of default settting. I would love to hear more from him.

Daisy didn't make a priority of getting a read on LoRab. She had more to say about pretty much every other player. I note that she was similarly lacking in any read on novaselinenever, but was willing to default to a "bad" GTH read in his case.

Spoiler: show

I'm voting for LoRab

Interesting, why Lorab?

Interesting, why interesting?

~~~

Conclusion: it's not the best look on the surface, though I'm honestly not feeling it that much. A teammate relationship wouldn't be shocking. Gun to my head I say that there isn't one.

[MacDougall]

Back at my desk so I am keyboard empowered Mac again.

[MacDougall]

Exploring Kyle.

[MacDougall]

@y'all: what do you think of LoRab right now?

Lukewarm suspicion. What's her biggest offense?

Our exchange began with her stating a gripe against the nutella bandwagon. I asked her to investigate it. She did. The reads she produced were that Epignosis was suspicious regardless of how he looked in the nutella wagon, and that speedchuck was suspicious simply for being there and for dipping his toes in a lot of bandwagons. She made absolutely no comment on you, despite you also throwing your vote all over the place like speedchuck. I don't buy that these are sincere suspicions.

Holy fuck this was a spicy hot take. Well done.

[MacDougall]

On analysis I think Kyle's drunk EOD looks pretty bad. Given I am a known drunkard I have good insight here.

I moved to nutella for the moment, I'm not 100% certain I want to stay there but my gut just got thrown for a loop and her moving to Jay is concerning to me.

I recommend looking at LoRab quickly if you have time.

Tell me about lorab

This was a drunk Kyle exhibiting what is referred to as dutch courage.

He ultimately voted for Daisy on his own. I wouldn't be surprised if his drunk mind thought he was doing a great job distancing them both with this passage.

[Epignosis]

Drunk analysis? Did someone say Epignosis?

I moved to nutella for the moment, I'm not 100% certain I want to stay there but my gut just got thrown for a loop and her moving to Jay is concerning to me.

I recommend looking at LoRab quickly if you have time.

Tell me about lorab

11:56. Buzzed.

Elplz eevator pitch me on lorab vrs locon go

12:01. Shitfaced.

I don't know a single drunk this incoherent. I am drunk right now.

Maybe.

voted daisy to preserve the tie, I'm okay with letting the rabbi choose

12:04. Had a quick shower and a cup of coffee.

Elplz eevator pitch me on lorab vrs locon go

what the fuck

12:53 am pm

"What the hell did I do last night?"

I have a little experience here.

If you're shitfaced, you stay shitfaced for more than a ten minute window.

[MacDougall]

[quote=MacDougall post_id=396893 time=1516342655 user_id=441]
Group 1 - Give the most credence to these reads.

Speed
Sloonei
Epi
JJJ
nutella
Kylemii

Group 2 - Give some credence to these reads.

FZ
Long Con
Dyslexicon
Spacedaisy
Dr Wilgy
Marmot

Group 3 - Pay no mind sunshine.

Novaselinenever


Update in case I die. While there is little to go by with Nova, there is nothing positive. I would advise just lynching him and being happy with it should there be a lack of consensus towards end of day.

Otherwise, should I be around, I will be looking further into Kyle and further tormenting Marmot to see what falls out.