Ponderosa

#81

S~V~S wrote:I do think that is who he wanted to be the final three. But I still think he is wrapped around her finger, becasue THAT is where he WANTS to be. The final two will be him and her, and he will be OK with whichever way it ends.

Maybe he has convinced himself he is being altruistic, lol.

We'll see.

I have to look at those videos.

Opt was staying for mafia long ago. It's perfect for her

I honestly just thought opt was a stable alliance partner who would never turn on me. In survivor terms, my 'one true person' that could be off in btsc with others and I didn't have to worry. I don't trust you or sorsha or lorab or quin because I know how deceptive you can all be. But I trusted opt. Foolish!

In some ways, this is why I should vote for her in the end. But in another way... she's the person who didn't need to move against me, so should I reward a move she didn't need to make?

#82

Btw, I had btsc with quin and he played as well as I played inh, for what that's worth. He put me completely at ease.

#83

Well you should have trusted me. The ONLY alliance I had was the pregame one I made with you and I played the game for that goal.

You burnt me for a pretty new face , love, and my vote was going to anyone but you or opt. Sorsha has a trick up her sleeve I am surprised she did not use it last night.

#84

Golden wrote:
speedchuck wrote:I tried to warn of Golden's treachery. It didn't go well for me either.
I only voted out people who didn't want to do what they agreed they would do.

Lie.

I never agreed to put Lorab above our alliance.

#85

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Lynching Faraday was stupid and someone needed to take the blame for it imo, but I guess not.
Faraday ONLY went because he asked out. He wasn't even a target for that day. LoRab never brought his name up once.

She did to me. Repeatedly.

#86

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Thank you Like I said, I don't think it mattered. They had the whole thing worked out in advance.

Yeah, I think they are gonna take out Sorsha and Quin, they might drop Eloh before Quin, but final 3 will be golden, opt, lorab, imo.

When do we start voting? Final two or three? Becasue if they get rid of Quin, I think LoRab should win. Golden is so besotted with Opt, he threw his primary alliance under the bus, and I think LoRab has played them all. If Quin makes it to the final three, I think he should win since Opt seems to be blaming the DH thing on me, but it was all Quins idea. I jumped into the thread after the fact about it to protect Quin, who was in more danger at that time than I was, and focus their attention on me.

Also I have to look at those question videos.

Also do we only judge based on treachery etc., or can the criteria vary?
My final four was always you, quin, me and opt.
My final three was you, me and opt until you betrayed me.
My final three after you went was me, opt and quin.

LoRab was never in my plan at all. She was trying to play us as transparently as you were. All I wanted from my allies was that they weren't trying to play me. Quin and Opt never seemed like they were (clearly they were though).

I never betrayed you. I betrayed Lorab.

#87

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Golden really likes her alot and he told people he wants her to win. I was one of them.
I never said such a thing to anyone. I wanted to win. I said Opt was someone I could live with losing to, which is a very different thing. I thought I'd probably beat her.

Sorsha told me you said that and you DID say something along those lines to me.

#88

I wasn't trying to play anybody. I was being totally open and honest except during DH.

#89

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Also what happened is that they decided in advance who was next and that was that. They told you in chatrooms and you got blown off if you disagreed.
"They" never ordered anyone around. Each decision was made on the day by the people we could get in chat rooms, except inh, who was planned a day in advance.

Yeah, they did. Both Opt and LoRab came in and told me who we were lynching. Other than Faraday vs Eloh (and you see how swimmingly THAT went for me). No one discussed anything with ME. Maybe with you, but not me.

I was trying to push back against Lorab (who came in and said we were lynching Faraday) BEFORE Faraday quit. Maybe you were kept in the dark more than you realize, lol.

#90

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:
speedchuck wrote:I tried to warn of Golden's treachery. It didn't go well for me either.
I only voted out people who didn't want to do what they agreed they would do.
Lie.

I never agreed to put Lorab above our alliance.

Did you not agree to take her to five?

I agreed lorab at five and df at six and that's the way it was going to be. We needed to get sorsha out early.

Anyway at the point you decided your vote was going to lorab it was over. Lorab was having an idol played on her.

#91

S~V~S wrote:Well you should have trusted me. The ONLY alliance I had was the pregame one I made with you and I played the game for that goal.

You burnt me for a pretty new face , love, and my vote was going to anyone but you or opt. Sorsha has a trick up her sleeve I am surprised she did not use it last night.

I burnt you because nothing I did was going to save you, and I preferred to stab you in the front than pretend I didn't know you were going. If you just trusted me we would have been three strong and even if opt turned on us it would have been too late.

But it's still on me. You were in the dark too much.

#92

S~V~S wrote:I wasn't trying to play anybody. I was being totally open and honest except during DH.

I was never 100% sure. I wish I had trusted that now, don't I!

Lorab is playing better than people realise. She figured out I had a preseason deal with dh (I don't know how... maybe from dh) and used your voting him out to convince me long term you were pulling power plays on me.

I probably also assumed quin was consulting you better than he was. We agreed sorsha/eloh 7-8 and df/lorab 5/6. You were worried about ratios but I was doing everything I could to keep them even.

#93

I did trust you, I did not trust her. Either her, LoRab or Opt. I hope Quin wins. Or Sorsha. I think they have played really good games to point.

And when did I agree to take her to 5? I actually had Sorsha in my projected five. I turned on LoRab becasue she refused to consider anything I said. I don;t like being marginalized, and I very much felt marginalized. You guys had it all worked out when we merged.

i was actually outraged that you put LoRab beforeme.

But water under the bridge. Like I said, I am hoping for Quin or Sorsha.

#94

Anyway, svs, I regret how things played out. Btsc was a tricky beast because of how limited it was, I often felt the need to keep an eye on people rather than just talk to allies. But even at the time I was checkmated on voting you out. Eloh was my goal that day and if you'd forced the point on eloh I'm sure she would have gone.

#95

Any deal I made with ANYONE BUT YOU AND QUIN, had the qualifier, "I am with you until I am not."

I was only in it until the end for you & Quin. Anyone else was temporary, and I said that.

Linki, Eloh was not a threat. Neither was Faraday. I did not want Eloh, I wanted LoRab becasue she insisted on killing the doctor. Even BEFORE he asked for it. I let him do it becasue I knew he would be hurt even more if we went to lynch.

#96

Sorsha has a trick up her sleeve; she found something in the jungle that has a large drain effect. Either she used it and it was not enough to take someone out, or she might use it tonight. If she does I think it will be on LoRab.

#97

S~V~S wrote:Sorsha has a trick up her sleeve; she found something in the jungle that has a large drain effect. Either she used it and it was not enough to take someone out, or she might use it tonight. If she does I think it will be on LoRab.

Lorab and sorsha are both playing the game rather well. At this point I think opt and quin stand out as the big threats though, I could see lorab skating through.

#98

S~V~S wrote:Any deal I made with ANYONE BUT YOU AND QUIN, had the qualifier, "I am with you until I am not."

I was only in it until the end for you & Quin. Anyone else was temporary, and I said that.

Linki, Eloh was not a threat. Neither was Faraday. I did not want Eloh, I wanted LoRab becasue she insisted on killing the doctor. Even BEFORE he asked for it. I let him do it becasue I knew he would be hurt even more if we went to lynch.

I know, but lorab was not going home! And that of all days was the day we couldn't get btsc so I couldn't tell you.

#99

Sorsha is the craftiest player I know. I would NEVER count her out. A big part of my move on LoRab was also to help advance Sorsha, since Sorsha appeared to be the lynch du Jour. We had day chat that day, and I laid everything out there for her, and plowed into the thread and blindsided it. It came out bad for me, but it forced everyone to reveal their true colors. I can't believe Eloh isn't petrified in that tank of sharks, lol.

When LoRab went after Faraday, at that point I decided I wanted Sorsah to advance rather than LoRab. I did not expect to die there, but like I said, it revealed alot about alot of people, and I would not be surprised if, post game, Quin said he voted you out becasue of how you turned on me.

linki, yeah, I resented not ever getting to talk to you. Every morning I jumped on at 5am, and you were already booked. Super frustrating. The three of us should have all been talking to each other every day in some form.

#100

Yes we should have. Instead I played my btsc to cut people off... inh for example, if I had btsc with him he was down to only one source of real info. But it meant I wasn't getting btsc with allies. I think that was my biggest mistake in the game.

Second only is letting the same trick be played on me yesterday though. I let opt slide for the day when I should have locked her up, without her sorsha btsc things might have turned out differently for me.

#101

And that probably is why quin voted me out, and good for him! But I still think it's left him exposed now. He needed his idol today and I laid out a day by day plan for us to get to the end together that would have kept him a lot more safe. I bet opt moves him away from any idol search he might do and tries to cut him next.

#102

You should know by now that guys don't survive LMS events here.

Why did I get voted out so early? I was just trying to be generally useful.

#103

Epignosis wrote:You should know by now that guys don't survive LMS events here.

Why did I get voted out so early? I was just trying to be generally useful.

You and notsawyer, both just were easy votes that no one seemed likely to oppose. At least that's why I did it.

#104

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You should know by now that guys don't survive LMS events here.

Why did I get voted out so early? I was just trying to be generally useful.
You and notsawyer, both just were easy votes that no one seemed likely to oppose. At least that's why I did it.

I wasn't bothered by it- only surprised. I never go into an LMS scenario expecting to win, which is why they don't appeal to me at all (and honestly, I don't know why they're appealing to anybody), but I really enjoyed the challenges Scotty put in front of us, so that made it a fun experience.

#105

Epignosis wrote:You should know by now that guys don't survive LMS events here.

Why did I get voted out so early? I was just trying to be generally useful.

Quin is still in there

And I think these LMS games come down to women a lot because in LMS environments, overt aggression seems to be selected against, and although this is a fairly gross generalization, men on average tend to be more aggressive, and there be seen as more of a threat. Like, for instance, DH was not any more of a threat to me than anyone else specifically, but that Negan imagery was threatening as hell. Every time I saw one of those pictures, my id went wild.

Re voting you off, no offense to you, but you complained a lot. I thought you seemed unhappy since none of the roles seemed particularly unhappy (although since I don't watch the show, I would have missed this role play reference).

You just did not seem to be having fun

I don't know anyone elses thoughts on you, but that was mine.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I just did not trust Sawyer after he blurted out in chat that he had taken food from Sorsha.

#106

Plus I think I was told that it was your day, tbh. A day or two before, I was told *Name (INH maybe? Speed? I don't recall the lynch order)* today, Epi tomorrow and I did not feel too bad about that since you seemed to be "meh".

#107

S~V~S wrote:Plus I think I was told that it was your day, tbh. A day or two before, I was told *Name (INH maybe? Speed? I don't recall the lynch order)* today, Epi tomorrow and I did not feel too bad about that since you seemed to be "meh".

Epi today, inh tomorrow... I think inh is the only one that was ever planned a day in advance. I was trying to stop people throwing out names early, you never know who you might have to work with the next day.

What's interesting is that it came to you as orders. Whenever I asked people it was 'get SVS opinion' or 'get player x's opinion' because my game strategy was to try and keep as many people happy and in consensus as possible. I didn't want anyone to feel like I didn't have their back or I was bossing them around.

#108

S~V~S wrote:And I think these LMS games come down to women a lot because in LMS environments, overt aggression seems to be selected against, and although this is a fairly gross generalization, men on average tend to be more aggressive, and there be seen as more of a threat.

I agree.

I came in to the game concerned about the possibility of Elo/LoRab/Sorsha/SVS forming a core 'womens alliance' but it never eventuated. The women aren't there at the end because they ganged up on the men, they're there because they weren't perceived as the immediate threat.

#109

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Plus I think I was told that it was your day, tbh. A day or two before, I was told *Name (INH maybe? Speed? I don't recall the lynch order)* today, Epi tomorrow and I did not feel too bad about that since you seemed to be "meh".
Epi today, inh tomorrow... I think inh is the only one that was ever planned a day in advance. I was trying to stop people throwing out names early, you never know who you might have to work with the next day.

What's interesting is that it came to you as orders. Whenever I asked people it was 'get SVS opinion' or 'get player x's opinion' because my game strategy was to try and keep as many people happy and in consensus as possible. I didn't want anyone to feel like I didn't have their back or I was bossing them around.

Maybe it was them, not you? Did this occur to you? Hearing your responses in here, it was a thought I had.

#110

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Plus I think I was told that it was your day, tbh. A day or two before, I was told *Name (INH maybe? Speed? I don't recall the lynch order)* today, Epi tomorrow and I did not feel too bad about that since you seemed to be "meh".
Epi today, inh tomorrow... I think inh is the only one that was ever planned a day in advance. I was trying to stop people throwing out names early, you never know who you might have to work with the next day.

What's interesting is that it came to you as orders. Whenever I asked people it was 'get SVS opinion' or 'get player x's opinion' because my game strategy was to try and keep as many people happy and in consensus as possible. I didn't want anyone to feel like I didn't have their back or I was bossing them around.
Maybe it was them, not you? Did this occur to you? Hearing your responses in here, it was a thought I had.

It was obviously them not me. But I think while in the game you assumed it was me.

#111

I assumed it was *us*.

The meta group, Goldens ideal final 5.

I saved a synopsis of one of Lorab and my chats. It was the night before I was expecting to get chat with you, Golden, but then chat was suspended. I wanted to talk to you about her and some odd thoughts she had. At one point she absolutely freaked on me that *ME & OPT* had pulled oneon *YOU & LORAB*.

This confused the fuck out of me, lol.

#112

S~V~S wrote:I assumed it was *us*.

The meta group, Goldens ideal final 5.

I saved a synopsis of one of Lorab and my chats. It was the night before I was expecting to get chat with you, Golden, but then chat was suspended. I wanted to talk to you about her and some odd thoughts she had. At one point she absolutely freaked on me that *ME & OPT* had pulled oneon *YOU & LORAB*.

This confused the fuck out of me, lol.

I can't wait to hear LoRab's take on what was going on. That's the perspective I feel like I'm lacking the most. She had a lot going on. I think you can directly track speedchuck's elimination to her as well as yours (it was LoRab who first told me speed was saying 'golden has a lot of alliances' - although I was out on speed from the moment he confronted LC when LC was after him, because that was too scary for me to trust).

I also don't know where the DF stuff has come from. In my experience the push on DF was all from Elo and I'm interested to find out if thats why LoRab pushed it with you or if it was off her own bat.

#113

I never talked to Eloh. LoRab was all like, Oh, Sorsha,who is she sharing with? And Once INH is dead, who needs Faraday.

I felt like her Eloh alliance was her primary focus at times.

#114

S~V~S wrote:I never talked to Eloh. LoRab was all like, Oh, Sorsha,who is she sharing with? And Once INH is dead, who needs Faraday.

I felt like her Eloh alliance was her primary focus at times.

I definitely felt the elo alliance was her primary focus. The day you went, she wanted sorsha out (you were correct there). I wanted elo out to hobble her a bit.

#115

My time on the Day 1 challenge is still being brought up.

#116

DFaraday wrote:My time on the Day 1 challenge is still being brought up.

#117

DFaraday wrote:My time on the Day 1 challenge is still being brought up.

Sorry buddy.

I'm also sorry you were in the dark on those three votes that came your way. You were just a name that would be believable to inh and chuck, nothing more, at least thats what it was to me and I was the one whose idea it was. My expectation was always that the following day would be chuck and even when it ended up being two people I was expecting the second to be sorsha or elo.

#118

Golden wrote:
DFaraday wrote:My time on the Day 1 challenge is still being brought up.
Sorry buddy.

I'm also sorry you were in the dark on those three votes that came your way. You were just a name that would be believable to inh and chuck, nothing more, at least thats what it was to me and I was the one whose idea it was. My expectation was always that the following day would be chuck and even when it ended up being two people I was expecting the second to be sorsha or elo.

No worries. I wasn't feeling this game even before that. I'm not a fan of a format where you make alliances knowing that you're going to betray those people. In Mafia, either I'm part of a team or I'm on my own from the start, so there's none of this connivance.

#119

DFaraday wrote:My time on the Day 1 challenge is still being brought up.

It was definitely not meant as a dig, man. It was a good measure of time for a question and had no other significance, I promise.

#120

Golden who did you share your reward with?

#121

S~V~S wrote:Golden who did you share your reward with?

Lorab. It was tails and she called tails.

Do you think it will be quin who is back here with us tomorrow? Has opt realised quin will probably win if he stays?

#122

Oh. Well if Sorsha uses what she has, I think she planned on giving it to Lorab. Did the thread know you gave it to LoRab?

Alot depends on Sorsha. If she manages to take someone out overnight,we might see two.

I expect them to try for Quin, I don't know that Opt will bus Sorsha yet and LoRab seems untouchable. Eloh will vote with LoRab. So LoRabs vote is worth 2. So Lorab plus one other person, and even after I was gone,LoRab seemed to want Sorsha out.

And I think Opt thinks she has you pocketed. She will expect me to vote for Quin. I think she will want Quin out before it goes to the jury.

#123

I asked to be voted out. I actually had to ask twice because they voted out LC instead the first time.

Although the first time I told them that they should either vote for me or Opt so we could get rid of the other tribe because that was the day of the tribe scramble.

I had an alliance with LC and Quin, but I'm pretty sure they were planning on betraying me if we made it to the final 3.

#124

Golden wrote:I can't wait to hear LoRab's take on what was going on. That's the perspective I feel like I'm lacking the most. She had a lot going on. I think you can directly track speedchuck's elimination to her as well as yours (it was LoRab who first told me speed was saying 'golden has a lot of alliances' - although I was out on speed from the moment he confronted LC when LC was after him, because that was too scary for me to trust).

I also don't know where the DF stuff has come from. In my experience the push on DF was all from Elo and I'm interested to find out if thats why LoRab pushed it with you or if it was off her own bat.

That snitch.

I was wondering what you were talking about with me betraying you first in thread. Should've known, I guess. I was pretty sure you had already betrayed me at that point by making other alliances, though.

I think confronting LC about him being the cop was the most fun I've had all game.

#125

speedchuck wrote:
Golden wrote:I can't wait to hear LoRab's take on what was going on. That's the perspective I feel like I'm lacking the most. She had a lot going on. I think you can directly track speedchuck's elimination to her as well as yours (it was LoRab who first told me speed was saying 'golden has a lot of alliances' - although I was out on speed from the moment he confronted LC when LC was after him, because that was too scary for me to trust).

I also don't know where the DF stuff has come from. In my experience the push on DF was all from Elo and I'm interested to find out if thats why LoRab pushed it with you or if it was off her own bat.
That snitch. I was wondering what you were talking about with me betraying you first in thread. Should've known, I guess. I was pretty sure you had already betrayed me at that point by making other alliances, though.

Well, I had

I betrayed you first when you confronted LC! I immediately went back and said to opt... we can't trust chuck's instincts, here I am having his back and he's putting it in jeopardy, LC might realise we are after him and play an idol!

LC was genuinely after you though! I was like "What is chuck doing! LC is a likeable guy, but you still can't trust him!"

#126

notsawyer540 wrote:I asked to be voted out. I actually had to ask twice because they voted out LC instead the first time.

For the same reason that people in the other tribe should not have voted Quin! I didn't want to vote you in case you had an idol (and I didn't want opt out, she was the only person I trusted at that point).

#127

My biggest problem in the game, was making a preseason final three with SVS and Quin and then not being on their tribe until the merge.

I had to make deals to survive the first phase (I had a final three with opt and DH and a final five with LoRab and chuck)
Then I had to make a deal to survive the swap (a final three with sorsha)

So at the merge, I had final three deals with opt, quin, svs and sorsha and final five deals with LoRab and chuck.

I never made any more deals beyond that, though... just what I felt I had to do to be in the majority and survive to the merge.

#128

Well, I think the First deal you made, me & Quin, should have been the one you stuck with

I was rather annoyed at you, but I think I hav gotten over it

#129

S~V~S wrote:Well, I think the First deal you made, me & Quin, should have been the one you stuck with

Well, that was my plan!

I honestly believe if your elim day hadn't panned out the way it did. Not only that, but since opt clearly did turn on me in the end and was probably going to be of a mind to do that even without the vote for you, I think it would have been you me and quin.

But, what could I do? LoRab wasn't going home, and you wouldn't have sorsha, and I couldn't convince LoRab to vote Elo... I tried so many times to hint to you that I felt my hands were tied and I didn't like the direction of the vote, but you wouldn't budge!

I learned a couple of good lessons in this game if there's ever a sequel. The first is that flexibility is king, because you never know things such as what btsc is going on that you don't know about (that day's btsc was completely unpredictable, and I think you made the decision to go after LoRab publicly in part because you expected there was no btsc at all). The second is, don't trust people who seem too calm. I kept telling Quin 'I'm not sure if opt is on side to keep you, I have some convincing to do... we need to work hard on that' and he was all like 'We're going to final three, I'm not worried, go us'. I should have known by the fact Quin wasn't as worried about his own survival as I was, that I was not in the loop.

#130

I would have went public anyhow.

I wanted some of the BTS stuff to spill into the thread, for the jury. In BTS I kept harping at people, "You are not playing for you, you are playing for the jury".

If I had my total druthers, leaving alliance out of it, I would like Final 3 to be Eloh, Quin & Sorsha, and I would love it if Eloh won.

She played a nice, gentle, loyal game, not unlike Faraday. Just becasue MOST Survivor winners win via power plays and backstabbing doesn't mean they all have to. But I am sure the people she trusts most will turn on her.

In any case, I am putting my jammies on, grabbing my remote and my Nyquil, so I may wake up at midnight to see what happened.