Final Tribal Council [END]

[Opt_Outside]

My loyalty résumé for Season 2:

INH told me about his role, and I agreed never to tell a soul about it. Despite the ammo that knowing who the poisoner was gave me to blackball INH, I kept my word. I even advised him to come clean to LoRab about it since I figured she would want to hear from the horses mouth and she'd understand it more versus if someone had figured out it was INH and told her.

Then how did Golden immediately know about it when I got BTSC with him?

I actually knew too reasonably early before you were voted out just by process of elimination. I think because so many people talked with Golden and admitted their roles and then he relayed all the same info to me, it didn't take long to figure out who you were. Especially since your role was a dangerous one and you were so hesitant to tell people

[S~V~S]

LC, you seem to think you had an 'original five' deal with me. I had never even heard about such a thing until after you were gone. Someone was bullshitting you that I had allied with you.

DH... he lied to me and to Quin. Same lie. Was INH even involved? DH, you are too corrupt and deceitful to ever trust.

I did no such thing :P

Golden had told me he'd like to bring Quin in during the preseason, and I took that to mean Golden and Quin and I were good. Then I talked to you and INH, which made 5.

I don't recall mentioning final five, but there's the five that I do recall mentioning I had spoken with and hashed something out

Now see, pre game, Golden told ME that he wanted me, him and Quin to be final 3. He told me he had spoken to you, but he didn't trust you. Then he acted all surprised when Quin & I killed you. He commented earlier that that was when he knew I would have to go, BUT HE TOLD ME HE DID NOT TRUST YOU before the game. Had he not said that, we would have killed someone else. Probably LoRab since she needed me dead.

@Golden, if you are gonna throw things in every pot, it's usually a good idea to remember into what pot you threw which ingredient. I based my entire interaction with DH on Golden telling me he didn't trust him before the game even started.

[speedchuck]

Sorry guys, I thought we had more time. I was at a camp during deadline. Was gonna vote for Opt anyway.

Scotty- this was rad. When you first told me that you were planning this game forever ago I had no idea it would be this cool! Most of those challenges were so well done- that memory one and the idol in the sand and all the puzzles you created... good stuff, man.

Poor speedchuck though- the part of his role that was like "can learn who had btsc"

Yeah, I just stopped submitting that I think.

The most unbalanced advantage I think looking back was speedchuck's (puzzle) advantage in the 'X Marks the Spot', which told him the immunity idol was buried in the water...which, after people revealed their clues in thread, made it glaringly obvious exactly where the idol was.

I had actually narrowed it down in my head, and was certain it was there. I almost told everyone else not to bother, but I wanted them all to lose the energy so I said nothing.

Good game, all! Sorry about the confrontation, Long Con. It got me dead too.

[Long Con]

Sorry guys, I thought we had more time. I was at a camp during deadline. Was gonna vote for Opt anyway.

Scotty- this was rad. When you first told me that you were planning this game forever ago I had no idea it would be this cool! Most of those challenges were so well done- that memory one and the idol in the sand and all the puzzles you created... good stuff, man.

Poor speedchuck though- the part of his role that was like "can learn who had btsc"

Yeah, I just stopped submitting that I think.

The most unbalanced advantage I think looking back was speedchuck's (puzzle) advantage in the 'X Marks the Spot', which told him the immunity idol was buried in the water...which, after people revealed their clues in thread, made it glaringly obvious exactly where the idol was.

I had actually narrowed it down in my head, and was certain it was there. I almost told everyone else not to bother, but I wanted them all to lose the energy so I said nothing.

Good game, all! Sorry about the confrontation, Long Con. It got me dead too.

All good, bro. We were natural enemies, nothing we could do about that.

LC, you seem to think you had an 'original five' deal with me. I had never even heard about such a thing until after you were gone. Someone was bullshitting you that I had allied with you.

DH... he lied to me and to Quin. Same lie. Was INH even involved? DH, you are too corrupt and deceitful to ever trust.

I did no such thing :P

Golden had told me he'd like to bring Quin in during the preseason, and I took that to mean Golden and Quin and I were good. Then I talked to you and INH, which made 5.

I don't recall mentioning final five, but there's the five that I do recall mentioning I had spoken with and hashed something out

Well, I learned my lesson for next time: Don't believe anyone. If I play next time, I doubt this is the kind of game that I can win.

[Epignosis]

The greatest thing about LMS games is that I can enter them knowing I have no chance at ever winning them.

[Long Con]

The greatest thing about LMS games is that I can enter them knowing I have no chance at ever winning them.

Then let's make an alliance with each other next time, so we don't bother all the real players.

[DharmaHelper]

People can believe me though.

[Long Con]

People can believe me though.

I believed you had three other guys that knew about my part in a five-way pre-game alliance.

[Golden]

When I heard about that post-merge, I thought INH had come up with it. It's part of the reason I stopped trusting him.

Nope. I heard that I was in the F5 alliance from Quin when we had BTSC after the swap.

Really, after DH was voted off, the only person who I had any kind of leverage or trust with was Speed. We were planning on trying to get SVS and Quin to flip on Golden Day 8. Probably wouldn't have worked, but would have been the only way I could get to the end.

The thing that really fucked me over in this game was my role. Everyone who I poisoned immediately had a vendetta against me for the entire game. I tried not telling anyone except DH about my role, except naturally, he told Golden. If not for that, I think I could've stuck around a couple more TC's.

Dh didn't tell me I don't think. I'm trying to remember... I think maybe opt worked it out through process of elimination.

[DharmaHelper]

People can believe me though.

I believed you had three other guys that knew about my part in a five-way pre-game alliance.

I got the messages saved in my inbox

[DharmaHelper]

No plan ever survives contact with the enemy, LC. Had you and I been on the same tribe at any point I would have Neganed up to protect you.

[Opt_Outside]

Whoa, just read the whole ponderosa thread. All the ladies were so mad at me! I'm sorry that I made you all feel the way I did- this is not at all how I behave in real life. I like to play deception games really hardcore because it's the only time I get to. Honesty and trust are the most important things in my life- I gotta get my deception out somewhere!

Elo- I was actually shocked to see you thought I'd made a pact with you. I was always very careful with my wording and I said the same thing to you that I said to Epi and LC and anyone I talked with that wasn't part of a core alliance. I said things like I wanted to work with you and look out for each other and we could totally make it to the merge and get far... But I never said the words final three for final two or final four or "I'll never vote for you".
And I dont remember exactly what I wrote to you right before end of day but I basically stopped beating around the bush. I wasn't going to tell you any earlier than right before end of day. I mean, in survivor you normally don't tell someone they're going to be voted out because it leaves room for them to play a hidden immunity idol or do something drastic that can threaten your game.

Anyway, Elo lorab svs I hope your feelings toward me don't stretch too far beyond this game. It is just a game, afterall. But I guess not everyone has watched as much survivor as I have either because I expected to be lied to and betrayed all in the spirit of a game.

[S~V~S]

Trust me, I get it lol.

[Golden]

Hey, was I the only person in the game to find the hidden immunity idol without a clue?

I'm the true Hantz, baby!

[Opt_Outside]

Also- I toootally acknowledge that there was luck involved. Even though what I said was true, I still had to frame it as best I could to get votes

[Golden]

It's really interesting reading the spectator room where Scotty and everyone else clearly didn't know about my pregame deals hehe.

[S~V~S]

I just read about half of the Spectator Chat.

If targeting me was really about the Negan stuff and not because I'm me, SVS and her crew should be targeting Sawyer next, whose avatar has been since Day 1 a picture of Negan's bat.

Different. Those large pictures were super aggressive in a way that an avatar was not.It was like you were saying, "I am king, I am dangerous, I will take your fucking head off if you give me a chance". We did not want to give you that chance.

[Long Con]

No plan ever survives contact with the enemy, LC. Had you and I been on the same tribe at any point I would have Neganed up to protect you.

Oh, I believe that.

[DharmaHelper]

I just read about half of the Spectator Chat.

If targeting me was really about the Negan stuff and not because I'm me, SVS and her crew should be targeting Sawyer next, whose avatar has been since Day 1 a picture of Negan's bat.

Different. Those large pictures were super aggressive in a way that an avatar was not.It was like you were saying, "I am king, I am dangerous, I will take your fucking head off if you give me a chance". We did not want to give you that chance.

If you say so.

[Quin]

just read the jury thread. god that hurts

Yes, my role was overpowered. No, it's not why I made it to the end. I think suggesting that my social game has nothing to do with it is just a god awful assumption, so hopefully my answers changed peoples minds there.

[DharmaHelper]

just read the jury thread. god that hurts

Yes, my role was overpowered. No, it's not why I made it to the end. I think suggesting that my social game has nothing to do with it is just a god awful assumption, so hopefully my answers changed peoples minds there.

A role like that comes with some notions that are tough to crack. I wouldn't have told anyone if that were my role. I woulda made some whack shit up and covered for it. And been very judicious with my use of idols.

[Epignosis]

Quin, how did you know I was your counterpart?

[Quin]

Quin, how did you know I was your counterpart?

PoE. I knew who everybody else was after like, two nights. LC told me straight up when I asked for confirmation.

[S~V~S]

I just read about half of the Spectator Chat.

If targeting me was really about the Negan stuff and not because I'm me, SVS and her crew should be targeting Sawyer next, whose avatar has been since Day 1 a picture of Negan's bat.

Different. Those large pictures were super aggressive in a way that an avatar was not.It was like you were saying, "I am king, I am dangerous, I will take your fucking head off if you give me a chance". We did not want to give you that chance.

If you say so.

I do say so. You may want to believe otherwise, but it's true

We actually talked about this in Ponderosa; why women tend to do better in LMS games in general. And one reason we discussed was that overt aggression was viewed as threatening, and generally, though not always, that is a male thing. I tried overt aggression, and I got voted right the fuck out of there. You were overtly aggressive, and we felt threatened by it. True story.

[Epignosis]

Meanwhile I did nothing but be laid back and non-confrontational and I got voted off anyway- including by someone I told I would help get the win.

I kept my end of the bargain.

[DharmaHelper]

I just read about half of the Spectator Chat.

If targeting me was really about the Negan stuff and not because I'm me, SVS and her crew should be targeting Sawyer next, whose avatar has been since Day 1 a picture of Negan's bat.

Different. Those large pictures were super aggressive in a way that an avatar was not.It was like you were saying, "I am king, I am dangerous, I will take your fucking head off if you give me a chance". We did not want to give you that chance.

If you say so.

I do say so. You may want to believe otherwise, but it's true

We actually talked about this in Ponderosa; why women tend to do better in LMS games in general. And one reason we discussed was that overt aggression was viewed as threatening, and generally, though not always, that is a male thing. I tried overt aggression, and I got voted right the fuck out of there. You were overtly aggressive, and we felt threatened by it. True story.

If you see it that way, sure.

[DharmaHelper]

Meanwhile I did nothing but be laid back and non-confrontational and I got voted off anyway- including by someone I told I would help get the win.

I kept my end of the bargain.

Another person I wish I'd gotten to play with. Oh well, next time.

[Scotty]

It's really interesting reading the spectator room where Scotty and everyone else clearly didn't know about my pregame deals hehe.

That much is true.
And sometimes I was just too caught up with other stuff to properly read through all the BTSC every night, so in those cases everyone was in the dark

[Scotty]

And just like in the show, Russell makes it to the final 3 and doesn't win

I totally thought every person sitting in the end had a solid chance of staking a case for themselves and could win it.

Other things:
Dat Survivor Auction was a bit of a mess, and the only reason I didn't do character is because chatzy has a reading limit for free rooms and I wanted to make sure I and anyone else could read back as to what was won. Linki was a bitch though, and I apologize.

Oh, and the mechanics of the hunger and thirst level drop: if no one went to the well, everyone would lose thirst. The only other way to gain thirst was reward

[juliets]

And just like in the show, Russell makes it to the final 3 and doesn't win

I totally thought every person sitting in the end had a solid chance of staking a case for themselves and could win it.

Other things:
Dat Survivor Auction was a bit of a mess, and the only reason I didn't do character is because chatzy has a reading limit for free rooms and I wanted to make sure I and anyone else could read back as to what was won. Linki was a bitch though, and I apologize.

Oh, and the mechanics of the hunger and thirst level drop: if no one went to the well, everyone would lose thirst. The only other way to gain thirst was reward

Scotty for Survivor 2, know you can get a mod to disable linki in the thread. Its what we do in the burglary threads to avoid that problem cause the game goes so fast.

[Quin]

Someone made a good point in the spectator thread. My role was overpowered, sure. But for 99 percent of the game, nobody ever wanted me out. It's not like I was hiding it. Half the game knew and you let me on my merry way, so in the end, it's mainly on the players heads that I got to the end.

[DharmaHelper]

Someone made a good point in the spectator thread. My role was overpowered, sure. But for 99 percent of the game, nobody ever wanted me out. It's not like I was hiding it. Half the game knew and you let me on my merry way, so in the end, it's mainly on the players heads that I got to the end.

I thought it was foolish of the players at least on the Mamana side not to immediately get you out after you burned an idol on me. If you'd pulled that move on anyone else I would have been all over you.

[Epignosis]

Someone made a good point in the spectator thread. My role was overpowered, sure. But for 99 percent of the game, nobody ever wanted me out. It's not like I was hiding it. Half the game knew and you let me on my merry way, so in the end, it's mainly on the players heads that I got to the end.

Spoiler: show

But you lost.

[Scotty]

Someone made a good point in the spectator thread. My role was overpowered, sure. But for 99 percent of the game, nobody ever wanted me out. It's not like I was hiding it. Half the game knew and you let me on my merry way, so in the end, it's mainly on the players heads that I got to the end.

In fact, it would have been even more overpowered had you never told anyone.

But then all the players were available in the first post, so by PoE, people would have known the idol hobbit was hanging around disturbing the peace.

I'm still surprised people didn't look to want to vote you out upon learning your role. It must be a testament to how well liked you are as a guy

[Quin]

Someone made a good point in the spectator thread. My role was overpowered, sure. But for 99 percent of the game, nobody ever wanted me out. It's not like I was hiding it. Half the game knew and you let me on my merry way, so in the end, it's mainly on the players heads that I got to the end.

Spoiler: show

But you lost.

Yeah, and in reading the threads it sounds like I was fucked from the get go. I don't like people putting my being here solely in the basket of 'I carried myself with idols'. It's not true. I couldn't use my bonus role in getting the first idol. I told three people where the second idol was, and never went to get it myself. I used the third on another person.

I still hold onto the idea that the only thing my role did for me was determine the circumstances that got me to the end. If I went with DH's crew, I could have made 5 and with a much different line-up. If I hadn't betrayed Golden, I'd have made final 4 and had a shot at immunity.

[S~V~S]

Oh 100%. That's why i am getting lulz from people blaming *me* for DH when that was your idea.

But people believe what they wanna believe

And you picked up the first one, not me, cause I was paranoid, remember?

[Quin]

Oh 100%. That's why i am getting lulz from people blaming *me* for DH when that was your idea.

But people believe what they wanna believe

And you picked up the first one, not me, cause I was paranoid, remember?

Yeah. I even said to you 'here's where the idol is, I'm not sure if I can go get it - so go get it.'

I mean, in the end people probably can't stop themselves from making assumptions because they weren't right by my side the whole time. But it does sting thinking people think I had a free ride. I worked my ass off for this.

[S~V~S]

Also I did not understand how it worked,I thought you could only use it onyourself. So I wanted you to pick it up since you seemed more in danger than I.

[DharmaHelper]

I think it came down to a misconception. My understanding was "Quin's role shows him where the idols are, and lo and behold, he keeps running into idols and getting people out with them."

I dunno if that's a fair assumption or not. I also wouldn't have kept more than 3 idols in the game if I were hosting (One on each starting tribe, one on the merge) But that's just me.

[Quin]

Also I did not understand how it worked,I thought you could only use it onyourself. So I wanted you to pick it up since you seemed more in danger than I.

Idols? Nah. Actually, when LC started bringing up your name and trying to control my BTSC choices, I considered asking Scotty if I could give you the idol. But without a message to go with it, I was worried it'd be wasted, so I just tried to change his mind.

[Long Con]

Did anyone play the entire game without deceiving anyone?

[DharmaHelper]

Did anyone play the entire game without deceiving anyone?

Yep.

[Long Con]

Also I did not understand how it worked,I thought you could only use it onyourself. So I wanted you to pick it up since you seemed more in danger than I.

Idols? Nah. Actually, when LC started bringing up your name and trying to control my BTSC choices, I considered asking Scotty if I could give you the idol. But without a message to go with it, I was worried it'd be wasted, so I just tried to change his mind.

I didn't see it so much as "controlling you"... more like "I'm glad we're on the same page and I can trust him."

[Quin]

I think it came down to a misconception. My understanding was "Quin's role shows him where the idols are, and lo and behold, he keeps running into idols and getting people out with them."

I dunno if that's a fair assumption or not. I also wouldn't have kept more than 3 idols in the game if I were hosting (One on each starting tribe, one on the merge) But that's just me.

That's exactly what it did. I won't refute that the role was overpowered. Since Scotty seemed to plant a new idol after one was played, in theory once I got the first one I could have played it, gotten the next one, played it, and so on.

I just think people are ignoring my game in favour of saying 'he doesn't deserve it' (explicit words said by somebody...) because of what damage my role could have done, rather than what it did.

[Long Con]

Did anyone play the entire game without deceiving anyone?

Yep.

Ok, you didn't deceive me. I just thought your words meant more than they did.

[Quin]

Also I did not understand how it worked,I thought you could only use it onyourself. So I wanted you to pick it up since you seemed more in danger than I.

Idols? Nah. Actually, when LC started bringing up your name and trying to control my BTSC choices, I considered asking Scotty if I could give you the idol. But without a message to go with it, I was worried it'd be wasted, so I just tried to change his mind.

I didn't see it so much as "controlling you"... more like "I'm glad we're on the same page and I can trust him."

Yeah, I'm more-so saying that from my perspective, because I wanted to go back to SVS and you kept saying 'no, go talk to sawyer and DF'. And as long as you didn't check my role, I thought I could trust you too. But I didn't see a situation where a member of your alliance could go unchecked so I'm a little glad that didn't become a problem.

[Long Con]

Also I did not understand how it worked,I thought you could only use it onyourself. So I wanted you to pick it up since you seemed more in danger than I.

Idols? Nah. Actually, when LC started bringing up your name and trying to control my BTSC choices, I considered asking Scotty if I could give you the idol. But without a message to go with it, I was worried it'd be wasted, so I just tried to change his mind.

I didn't see it so much as "controlling you"... more like "I'm glad we're on the same page and I can trust him."

Yeah, I'm more-so saying that from my perspective, because I wanted to go back to SVS and you kept saying 'no, go talk to sawyer and DF'. And as long as you didn't check my role, I thought I could trust you too. But I didn't see a situation where a member of your alliance could go unchecked so I'm a little glad that didn't become a problem.

You could have trusted me with knowing your role. A powerful role in the hands of an ally is a good thing.

[Quin]

Also I did not understand how it worked,I thought you could only use it onyourself. So I wanted you to pick it up since you seemed more in danger than I.

Idols? Nah. Actually, when LC started bringing up your name and trying to control my BTSC choices, I considered asking Scotty if I could give you the idol. But without a message to go with it, I was worried it'd be wasted, so I just tried to change his mind.

I didn't see it so much as "controlling you"... more like "I'm glad we're on the same page and I can trust him."

Yeah, I'm more-so saying that from my perspective, because I wanted to go back to SVS and you kept saying 'no, go talk to sawyer and DF'. And as long as you didn't check my role, I thought I could trust you too. But I didn't see a situation where a member of your alliance could go unchecked so I'm a little glad that didn't become a problem.

You could have trusted me with knowing your role. A powerful role in the hands of an ally is a good thing.

Maybe. Before you though, my loyalty was to SVS and Golden. If circumstances worked out that you could be brought into that then I'd have been welcoming of it - but with you wanting to take on sawyer and DF, while also being part of the 'five' , I didn't see that happening. It would have been cool to work with you longer though, you're a cool dude.

[DharmaHelper]

I think it came down to a misconception. My understanding was "Quin's role shows him where the idols are, and lo and behold, he keeps running into idols and getting people out with them."

I dunno if that's a fair assumption or not. I also wouldn't have kept more than 3 idols in the game if I were hosting (One on each starting tribe, one on the merge) But that's just me.

That's exactly what it did. I won't refute that the role was overpowered. Since Scotty seemed to plant a new idol after one was played, in theory once I got the first one I could have played it, gotten the next one, played it, and so on.

I just think people are ignoring my game in favour of saying 'he doesn't deserve it' (explicit words said by somebody...) because of what damage my role could have done, rather than what it did.

I think part of that from the Jury side is trying to convince other jurors to vote for the person they want to win. It's a good argument. Maybe not a fair or 100% correct one, but it's good.

[Quin]

I think it came down to a misconception. My understanding was "Quin's role shows him where the idols are, and lo and behold, he keeps running into idols and getting people out with them."

I dunno if that's a fair assumption or not. I also wouldn't have kept more than 3 idols in the game if I were hosting (One on each starting tribe, one on the merge) But that's just me.

That's exactly what it did. I won't refute that the role was overpowered. Since Scotty seemed to plant a new idol after one was played, in theory once I got the first one I could have played it, gotten the next one, played it, and so on.

I just think people are ignoring my game in favour of saying 'he doesn't deserve it' (explicit words said by somebody...) because of what damage my role could have done, rather than what it did.

I think part of that from the Jury side is trying to convince other jurors to vote for the person they want to win. It's a good argument. Maybe not a fair or 100% correct one, but it's good.

I hope that's it.