Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[sprityo]

Host Notes have been posted

[Sloonei]

Speaking of the marmot lynch, that was the most hectic vote I've ever taken part in. I was stunned when he actually flipped bad. I protected nutella that night because she was about 99% responsible for my vote.

[nutella]

PHEW!!! Thanks guys for pulling through on the amazing yet nailbiting win! And well-played Speedchuck, you played a great game.

This was a very amusing game to watch from an informed position.

Frustrating, that is. I've been silently screaming at the thread (and not so silently screaming in the spoiler chat) for the last week. I got rather excessively and uncharitably annoyed that (a) juliets didn't piece together that Quin was good and (b) nobody puzzled out how the night 1 busdrive worked (for those of you who haven't read the spoilers yet: neither MP nor Golden lied. Marmot switched JJJ and Golden. Hence JJJ -> Golden -> Fredwood.)


I'm really glad town won and I wish I had been alive a little longer but nonetheless I enjoyed this game a TON. Like, really a lot. It's rekindled my mafia addiction. That may be because my ego was rather inflated by being seen as a super-civ who helped the game when really I was mostly just lucky But also it was a fantastically constructed game. Well done and thank you sprityo

[speedchuck]

Frustrating, that is. I've been silently screaming at the thread (and not so silently screaming in the spoiler chat) for the last week. I got rather excessively and uncharitably annoyed that (a) juliets didn't piece together that Quin was good and (b) nobody puzzled out how the night 1 busdrive worked (for those of you who haven't read the spoilers yet: neither MP nor Golden lied. Marmot switched JJJ and Golden. Hence JJJ -> Golden -> Fredwood.)

Busdrives are weird. Hosts discretion as to whether they have priority and possibly redirect each other.

I didn't want to get into that.

[juliets]

nutella, I don't know how you would expect me to piece together Quin was good until he died and I took over and even then, it didn't make sense that I was not an odd night back up. Who ever heard of a backup role having more power than the original role? At the point where he died and I took over it really didn't matter what I thought - he was dead.

[DrWilgy]

Woo! Go team!

[nutella]

nutella, I don't know how you would expect me to piece together Quin was good until he died and I took over and even then, it didn't make sense that I was not an odd night back up. Who ever heard of a backup role having more power than the original role? At the point where he died and I took over it really didn't matter what I thought - he was dead.

I thought that your role activation combined with LC's jokey hint at the Forge ability would be enough, even before Fred's flip. I do find it weird though that your role took over full-time for a previously odd-night only role, but I think it makes some amount of sense on a balance/game progression level.

[nutella]

Everyone seemed to ignore that post of LC's though. Even when you were all discussing the weird mafia ratio numbers, it never occurred to you that one of them might have been a fake flip.

[Fredwood]

This last EoD was intense. I'm glad you change your minds in the end to go with speedchuck. If I hadn't known I might not have done that.

Just want to put this here...

Suspected Fredwood
Suspected Long Con
Suspected Golden
Suspected Soneji
...sort of suspected marmot but sort of not because i thought there was info that didn't actually exist


This was probably my best scumhunting game yet.

Thanks so much for the game sprityo, I had loadsa fun.

And Diz, and Jack, and JJJ, and Sloonei, and literally everyone else not named nutella. There was a reason you were easy to frame.

Fun game, only thing I would have done different was go with my first instinct to claim I had visited speed chuck and received a yes result. Had a strong suspicion that he was the marker, as the only other plausible candidate was Straw, and he hadn't been active enough in my mind to be marker. instead I chickened out and made myself look worse.

Good game by actively, but really, Nutella was the one player that truly scared me, I think she listed all the mafia names as suspect in one post with only like 1 or 2 other names. Granted one of them was JJJ but it was the most accurate mass read I've ever witnessed.

[Fredwood]

actively=everyone

[Sloonei]

Everyone seemed to ignore that post of LC's though. Even when you were all discussing the weird mafia ratio numbers, it never occurred to you that one of them might have been a fake flip.

To be fair, we all had the advantage of seeing the irony of that post. To someone who was still in the game there was no reason to read into that post at all. But you're right, it was extremely frustrating to look at it just sitting there.

[juliets]

nutella, I don't know how you would expect me to piece together Quin was good until he died and I took over and even then, it didn't make sense that I was not an odd night back up. Who ever heard of a backup role having more power than the original role? At the point where he died and I took over it really didn't matter what I thought - he was dead.

I thought that your role activation combined with LC's jokey hint at the Forge ability would be enough, even before Fred's flip. I do find it weird though that your role took over full-time for a previously odd-night only role, but I think it makes some amount of sense on a balance/game progression level.

I didn't recognize a hint from LC about forging. Anyway, JJJ put it together when I claimed as he has had enough experience to know an every night doc could be a back up for a limited doc.

[Sloonei]

MP deserves some props. He subbed into this game late, had virtually no time to get caught up, but still managed to bring a clear head to the end-game lynch and made the right call. That was a lot of fun to watch.

[Fredwood]

Everyone seemed to ignore that post of LC's though. Even when you were all discussing the weird mafia ratio numbers, it never occurred to you that one of them might have been a fake flip.

Oh yeah, it pissed me off so much. That was only the second most infuriating thing that Long Con did this game lol.

I think even with the forge mishap, we would have lost because of Speed. Marking Quin, even though he was a strong lynch candidate for 3 straight days really torpedoed our strategy.

[speedchuck]

Good game by actively, but really, Nutella was the one player that truly scared me, I think she listed all the mafia names as suspect in one post with only like 1 or 2 other names. Granted one of them was JJJ but it was the most accurate mass read I've ever witnessed.

http://forum.chocolatepi.net/showthread ... 3#pid55693
This is still the best one I've seen. He got the entire scumteam and no one else, less than 100 posts into the game.
I think it was a joke, though

[Sloonei]

We actually Forged Golden's role to seem bad upon his death.

The relevant Long Con post.

[nutella]

Everyone seemed to ignore that post of LC's though. Even when you were all discussing the weird mafia ratio numbers, it never occurred to you that one of them might have been a fake flip.

To be fair, we all had the advantage of seeing the irony of that post. To someone who was still in the game there was no reason to read into that post at all. But you're right, it was extremely frustrating to look at it just sitting there.

Well, LC specifically used the term "forge" which would have been weird for him to make up imo, and he claimed it was used on Golden but he was obviously lying, just not about the ability itself.

[Fredwood]

nutella, I don't know how you would expect me to piece together Quin was good until he died and I took over and even then, it didn't make sense that I was not an odd night back up. Who ever heard of a backup role having more power than the original role? At the point where he died and I took over it really didn't matter what I thought - he was dead.

I thought that your role activation combined with LC's jokey hint at the Forge ability would be enough, even before Fred's flip. I do find it weird though that your role took over full-time for a previously odd-night only role, but I think it makes some amount of sense on a balance/game progression level.

I didn't recognize a hint from LC about forging. Anyway, JJJ put it together when I claimed as he has had enough experience to know an every night doc could be a back up for a limited doc.

lol it wasn't a hint he came right out and said that the mafia forged Golden to autopsy as Mafia...luckily he was spouting a ton of BSC at that point and it didn't end up getting menough lynched.

[sprityo]

Doing the achievements right now

Just wanted to point out to everyone the Silver Lantern Janitor Killed the Mortician, the most Key role in the game for town

The irony was amazing

[juliets]

Everyone seemed to ignore that post of LC's though. Even when you were all discussing the weird mafia ratio numbers, it never occurred to you that one of them might have been a fake flip.

To be fair, we all had the advantage of seeing the irony of that post. To someone who was still in the game there was no reason to read into that post at all. But you're right, it was extremely frustrating to look at it just sitting there.

Well, LC specifically used the term "forge" which would have been weird for him to make up imo, and he claimed it was used on Golden but he was obviously lying, just not about the ability itself.

Well, I have never heard of "forging". This game was full of roles/terms that I had never heard of. I don't even remember the post you are talking about. And if JJJ didn't catch it I sure wouldn't.

[speedchuck]

We actually Forged Golden's role to seem bad upon his death.

The relevant Long Con post.

Ah. I was just auto-ignoring any of the dead posts as WIFOM. Like, completely ignoring. The forger flip completely surprised me.

[nutella]

We actually Forged Golden's role to seem bad upon his death.

The relevant Long Con post.

Ah. I was just auto-ignoring any of the dead posts as WIFOM. Like, completely ignoring. The forger flip completely surprised me.

But he wasn't dead? lol

Juliets the fact that forge is not a well known term is exactly part of my point. He wouldn't have made it up, but he said what they did (just about the wrong person so it was still a lie).

[Fredwood]

ugh phone BSC = BS

menough= me lynched

[juliets]

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

[Fredwood]

Yeah it was right after they were blowed up but before he was hammered.

[sprityo]

We actually Forged Golden's role to seem bad upon his death.

The relevant Long Con post.

Ah. I was just auto-ignoring any of the dead posts as WIFOM. Like, completely ignoring. The forger flip completely surprised me.

But he wasn't dead? lol

Juliets the fact that forge is not a well known term is exactly part of my point. He wouldn't have made it up, but he said what they did (just about the wrong person so it was still a lie).

Forger is an entirely new role i made for this game

just and FYI

[Sloonei]

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

You were pretty excellent from where I was sitting.

[nutella]

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

I think you did a great job at the end! I personally really liked this setup and learning about the different kinds of roles/abilities I was unfamiliar with and trying to puzzle them out, and I'm looking forward to playing more games of this style. I think you'd do really well again too.

I don't mean to seem demeaning or anything about you not figuring stuff about because I was in a biased position and can't say how I would have done in your position. I will say that I puzzled out the double busdrive thing on my own after MP's claim but before reading the spoilers, but other than that there's a reason I said I was being uncharitable, lol. You played amazingly given the stressful circumstances, and pulled through at the end.

[Fredwood]

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

That's the way it is supposed to be, agree that the forge thing could easily slip past people who weren't expecting it, and in the end you guys ended up making two key lynches in 2 straight MYLO phases. So you guys did exceptionally well.

Especially considering that the end it was two replacements and a half active vs the LMS.

Was just speaking how infuriating LC comment was from my perspective.

[nutella]

A lot of mafia, especially in endgame, is just a series of puzzles, and we can't all do every puzzle but everyone has different and complementary strengths. You essentially puzzled out the Fred and Speed lynches and it was beautiful to watch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I had internally considered the notion of a forger a bit, but it was never worth open discussion IMO. We had two points of evidence visible:

1. Long Con's post
2. The actual flips

I didn't care about anything LC said the day he was obviously being lynched, so I was just more inclined to trust the flip. Any other evidence is inherently dubious next to that, and it didn't matter anyway. Process of elimination still ruled my reads, even if Fredwood ended up a suspect for the wrong threat.

~~~

Very good game, everyone. I think all the factions perfomed at a high level and it made for an intense, competitive environment. That's what I love to see in Mafia. Kudos for making that happen, sprityo. I'll have more to say later when time permits.

[speedchuck]

Huh. I was pretty sure I had seen a forger before, but I looked through the games. I guess I have not. Good combination of miller/godfather and lynchjanitor.

[sprityo]

Huh. I was pretty sure I had seen a forger before, but I looked through the games. I guess I have not. Good combination of miller/godfather and lynchjanitor.

Originally just an anydeath janitor, but i added the role change option after /accidents/

[Marmot]

Speaking of the marmot lynch, that was the most hectic vote I've ever taken part in. I was stunned when he actually flipped bad. I protected nutella that night because she was about 99% responsible for my vote.

Lol, I was surprised you didn't change your vote at all, given that you voted me for a statement you misunderstood.

I was surprised that I almost weasled out of that lynch. I probably would have gotten beyond the beginning of the game otherwise (aside from speedchuck's role that is).


Question: How well did interactive analysis work on me in finding my teammates? You guys posted too much for me to keep up.

[Marmot]

Also, kudos to Jay for actually making it through Day 1 alive in this game.

[Sloonei]

Speaking of the marmot lynch, that was the most hectic vote I've ever taken part in. I was stunned when he actually flipped bad. I protected nutella that night because she was about 99% responsible for my vote.

Lol, I was surprised you didn't change your vote at all, given that you voted me for a statement you misunderstood.

I was surprised that I almost weasled out of that lynch. I probably would have gotten beyond the beginning of the game otherwise (aside from speedchuck's role that is).


Question: How well did interactive analysis work on me in finding my teammates? You guys posted too much for me to keep up.

huh? I changed my vote to you at the very last moment and it was because nutella seemed extremely convinced and was oozing authenticity.

I didn't learn much from the interactive analyses with you. You are, after all, the King of WIFOM Mountain.

[Sloonei]

I take that back: I learned that speedchuck and Dyslexicon were very much not your teammate. Besides that, I don't recall there being anything which drew me to you and any of your teammates. Maybe a little bit with Golden, but it was extremely vague.

[sprityo]

New Poll added btw

[Marmot]

Oh cool!

What would I deserve an Honorary Win for? Breaking more rules while dead than alive?

[Marmot]

Speaking of the marmot lynch, that was the most hectic vote I've ever taken part in. I was stunned when he actually flipped bad. I protected nutella that night because she was about 99% responsible for my vote.

Lol, I was surprised you didn't change your vote at all, given that you voted me for a statement you misunderstood.

I was surprised that I almost weasled out of that lynch. I probably would have gotten beyond the beginning of the game otherwise (aside from speedchuck's role that is).


Question: How well did interactive analysis work on me in finding my teammates? You guys posted too much for me to keep up.

huh? I changed my vote to you at the very last moment and it was because nutella seemed extremely convinced and was oozing authenticity.

I didn't learn much from the interactive analyses with you. You are, after all, the King of WIFOM Mountain.

That's reassuring. Despite my inability to surive very long into games, I'm at least still good at not spewing my teammates.

I didn't know Golden had the map when I claimed to have it. I was going to claim regardless of who had it anyway.

[Golden]

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

Quite the opposite - you were post-nutella MVP in my opinion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

You weren't annoying; much of the stress translated into the spectator chat too! The chat was also spoiled, so people in there have a very easy standpoint to become frustrated when something they know to be wrong might come to fruition. That's Mafia.

You played a hell of a game juliets and you should be proud of it. What you and MP faced in this final phase was one of the tougher situations a civilian can encounter -- you entered leaning toward one suspect, and after careful deliberation and consideration you changed your mind. Correctly. I spent most of this phase expecting Strawhenge to be lynched because it was simply the easier choice to make. He had fewer posts, his role claim could be questioned, and his opposition (speedchuck) was pouring content into the thread. That's not an easy switch and it's extremely impressive that the two of you were able to manage it.

I really think that 80-90% of civilians in that position get it wrong. Hold your head very high.

[Marmot]

I wasn't informed of the Spectator chat until Day 6. I'm glad that it turned up a very strong presence from non-players and deadies alike though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My favorite thing about this game was that it brought together players from all over the Internet, unintentionally, into a boiling and chaotic environment which still remained always respectful and welcoming. It was so great to play with everyone here that I've never played with before or only played with a little bit. I'm going to say a little bit about each of the players in the game:

insertnamehere -- Bad luck. Dyslexicon was a good choice for your role I think, because given the WIFOMy approach they appreciate they were a good bet for long-term survival. The late-game explosion wasn't something you could readily control.

sig -- I wish we'd known you better. Let it be stated that the civilians made only one lynch in this game of a member of their own team, and this was it. Sorry for the generic siglynch, one of these days we'll finally know better.

Marmot -- I think you also suffered a little bad luck, because that Day 2 lynch developed late in a way that is very difficult to contain. You asked about the interactive analyses: I found them to be mostly inconclusive. You do well to reveal little. The most I got was some strengthened town reads like Sloonei said. You didn't out your teammates.

Soneji -- You did well in the time leading up to your demise in that you accelerated your play to get with the pace when it was most necessary. I think your post count jumped by about 30 in your final 24 hours of life. I appreciate the effort to forge onward.

Quin -- I'm glad you were town. I was annoyed at myself for giving you town credit in my mafia interactive analyses after you'd flipped mafia, it felt like another sound Quin duping effort. You've proven that you can look quite like a civilian and not be one, so take the continued suspicion and acceptance of your false flip as a compliment.

Long Con -- I enjoyed your gambit-oriented behavior in this game. That kind of thing doesn't always work, but it can, and it is usually good to sow confusion either way. It was bad luck that I'd tracked you on the night you claimed to pass along the gun, and you weren't truly cooked until we clarified a host detail.

Jackofhearts -- I really appreciate it when a civilian is drawing ill-advised suspicion, and even made a likely target for a kill by another civilian, and they keep their head on straight. That is really a rare talent in this game, and it shows me that you really understand the value of sacrifice and teamwork. Your role being revealed was the first clue we had that some explosions might be coming later, and you made some sound reads that weren't necessarily en vogue when you made them. Keep on playing with us, you're great to have around.

Silver Lantern -- Don't sweat the errant shot. You were the one shouldered with that responsibility and I don't blame you for it. What you did well in this game was promote yourself as a scumhunter; it enabled a few of us to view you in a good light so you could have room to operate. That's not always easy. I hope to see you here more; I think your effort-minded town play definitely has a place on any good team and it'd make you a scary bad guy.

DrWilgy -- What can ya do. I've been victimized by friendly fire very early in a recent game myself; shit happens. You always play with the right attitude and it's a relief to those who have the wrong idea about your alignment sometimes.

Golden -- This was the first time that you and I have been on 100% directly opposing sides since Economics (with GY!BE being kind of applicable). That's hard to believe. The way you meant to play off of Quin and his false flip was creative, and had you not exploded it may have been successful. I dunno, it's a bummer you didn't have the opportunity to see it through.

Sloonei -- You turned my top suspect of Day 1 into one of my top town reads of Day 2. Thank you for that. I am sure the scum team wasn't pleased when a relatively lynchable target was replaced with you, always the effortful and convincing civilian. You also clearly played an important role in the first scum lynch, and your early reads were very good.

speedchuck -- I can't say enough about the way you played in this game, sir. To win as a last-man standing independent requires as much pure luck as strong play (I'd know, being the luckiest serial killer of all time recently). You came as close as one can come, and that is to be commended. Everyone realizes how hard that situation is, and even if you didn't technically "win", this was clearly a game in which you played winning Mafia. I hope to see you around here more often, you're off to a stellar start.

nutella -- I said it before: you're becoming a very potent civilian. Don't doubt yourself on that, and don't attribute it to blind luck. This isn't the first time I have seen you put together a fantastic civilian effort in recent memory. It's been awesome to watch your confidence grow, and it has been reflected in your success. You're doing things the right way and I encourage you to keep it up.

Scotty -- "I'm a fucking stump" is a sentence that has replayed in my head a number of times. Given that I know you hadn't seen that role before, it's hilarious to me that you'd get it and feel that way about it. Also, you handled the role very well -- you earned the credit it could have given you merely by claiming it, which meant you didn't have to use it and suffer the disadvantages.

MovingPictures07 -- We all greatly appreciate you stepping in, even if it meant succumbing to your addiction. You obviously found yourself in a very difficult position in the end, and you found a way to come through. Bravo sir, and take pride in what you accomplished.

juliets -- I've already said some, but I'll add this: in the final phase, when nerves were running high and the other civilians were struggling to find their footing -- you were the calming influence they needed to sort themselves. I know that you also felt the same nerves and stress, but you still played that phase with the sort of leadership that so many towns lack in that kind of situation. That's why our faction won this game.

Dyslexicon -- You're as fun as they come, and I was so thrilled to be able to play a game with you after having hosted you in the scrimmage last year. You bring an unorthodox methodology to the table, and you use it effectively in a way that both benefits you and is entertaining. That's something I lack -- I am the most boring player! I hope to see more of you, you're a great fit here.

Fredwood -- I was wrong about my reads on you at pretty much every turn! I read you strongly as a civilian and later I read you strongly as an independent, and all along you were neither. Hats off to you for that, and for a game well-played. You outlived your teammates in part due to your own tenacity under consistent pressure from a number of sources. Keep on playing with us!

Strawhenge -- I'm so glad you played, pal. It's been too long, and combining your presence with the general makeup of this game it felt like old times on RYM. You definitely picked a good game to return to Mafia with. I know you didn't have the time you thought you'd have, but you still put up a lot of posts and made the best effort you could. It was worth exactly as much as winning the game in the final phase. Take pride.

Nachomamma8 -- I'm still cranky that you were killed so early. I was stoked to play a game with you, especially given that we were both civilians. I think we'd play off each other very effectively, and apparently the mafia team didn't want that to happen. Stick around!

[Golden]

Can I say, I think Soneji is one of the most underrated players going. He's been lynched as both a baddie and town for his odd surging posting style, but in this game I felt like he was mislynched (even though he was bad). He was OUR best choice of lynch (baddie team) for wifom purposes, if the forge had worked.

[Marmot]

Marmot -- I think you also suffered a little bad luck, because that Day 2 lynch developed late in a way that is very difficult to contain. You asked about the interactive analyses: I found them to be mostly inconclusive. You do well to reveal little. The most I got was some strengthened town reads like Sloonei said. You didn't out your teammates.

I had bad luck with timing too. I thought this game would start well before Game of Champions would, it didn't. I also thought that the crazy game over on NF would take a while to fill up, but they cut 10 roles and started early instead. These three games starting right around the same time isn't quite what I signed up for.


I also want to see what Soneji plays like as a civilian. Haven't got much of that from him.

[Long Con]

Did I do wrong?

[Golden]

Did I do wrong?

No. Please never change.

[Ricochet]

Congrats juliets and the lylo civ gang! Lylo's ae tight drama, so I'm sure it's very rewarding for you to have pulled it off. Tough luck speedchuck, but it also looks like a great run, to have gotten this close. Congrats on your first hosting experience here, sprityo, your game looked power heavy and intriguing, looking forward to your next ones. Everyone coloured green in your role reveals is a winner, correct?

[sprityo]

Congrats juliets and the lylo civ gang! Lylo's ae tight drama, so I'm sure it's very rewarding for you to have pulled it off. Tough luck speedchuck, but it also looks like a great run, to have gotten this close. Congrats on your first hosting experience here, sprityo, your game looked power heavy and intriguing, looking forward to your next ones. Everyone coloured green in your role reveals is a winner, correct?

Correct