Monopoly Mafia [GAME OVER]

[keys56000000000]

People are talking about getting these night powers and BTSC as though it will benefit the civilians. You are no longer a civilian once you start your BTSC set. You are an enemy of the civs and must be lynched. How difficult of a concept is that to grasp?

[thellama73]

You can lynch me if you want, but I'm a good civilian. I don't want to be in a little team. I want to stick with the herd. It seems clear that your position on the matter is different, therefore you're suspect. Idk what you want me to say to you. Go start a mafia team against me and the rest of us, I won't lynch you? What are you expecting to happen?

I'm not expecting anything. I just asked if you wanted to trade lynch votes.

[keys56000000000]

You can lynch me if you want, but I'm a good civilian. I don't want to be in a little team. I want to stick with the herd. It seems clear that your position on the matter is different, therefore you're suspect. Idk what you want me to say to you. Go start a mafia team against me and the rest of us, I won't lynch you? What are you expecting to happen?

I'm not expecting anything. I just asked if you wanted to trade lynch votes.

I'm just trying to take this game seriously, Llama. If that's not appreciated, I'll find something else to do.

[thellama73]

You can lynch me if you want, but I'm a good civilian. I don't want to be in a little team. I want to stick with the herd. It seems clear that your position on the matter is different, therefore you're suspect. Idk what you want me to say to you. Go start a mafia team against me and the rest of us, I won't lynch you? What are you expecting to happen?

I'm not expecting anything. I just asked if you wanted to trade lynch votes.

I'm just trying to take this game seriously, Llama. If that's not appreciated, I'll find something else to do.

We all have our own styles. Of course I appreciate you. I think you're a swell guy.

[Degobunny]

Players don't have to be in the union, I ain't forcing anybody, but just remember that if you are looking for your teammates, you're saying to the rest of us that you intend to kill us down the line. You intend to be no-good mafioso and murder us civilians. And the civilians in the union will have the numerical advantage over you and your measly one or two teammates in the lynch.

So if your teammate finds you (assuming you are Civ), will you try to lynch them and avoid acquiring their card, in order to keep yourself Civ?

That's a good question, I don't have an answer. I can only hope that my partner/s will refrain from searching for me, and failing that, that they're unlucky and never find me. I'm personally convinced that we have a better shot of winning this if we can resist the IMO fool's-gold temptation of powers and BTSC, and stick together. We have the power to vote together, that's got to be something.

Someone asked about the auctions being public and the fact that if someone bids on a property, it will out them so people will know what they are. To that, Boo answered that we can bid on other things and manipulate people into thinking whatever we want.
But....when civs bid on something, all it's going to make us think is that they got BTS which means they become sort of a mafia we need to eliminate, right? So what's the point in bidding on property which isn't yours?

A Civ could bid on a property that isn't in their colour group in order to keep it out of the hands of the colour group and the baddies.

How are we going to differentiate between that civ and the mafia/civ-turned-mafia? Risky move, associating yourself with the bad guys.

I'm going to hang on to my money for now. Complicated game is complicated.

Who we lynching, y'all?

IDK. You got any suspicions, Llama? I see Degobunny is against the union, so he/she must be pro-mafia! Ordinarily I'd call for his/her lynch, but it's early days yet, and while there might be civs looking to turn against us, they're still all civs at the moment, potential hearts and minds to be won over to support the union.

I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies, and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union.

[thellama73]

I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies, and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union.

You are my new hero.

[Degobunny]

I am finding it really hard to post on this site. Every time I finish writing something I need to login again and it erases what I typed out on my pad.

When you log in, do you have "Log me on automatically each visit" checked? The last person this happened to resolved the issue by clicking that. If you do have that checked, then not sure what about this site would be causing that.

And not sure about bidding on any of these yet, initially I want to be more conservative with my money.

And I am still trying to figure out which option, search for partners or NOT search for partners, would benefit the rail/utilities more. Standard civvies, no BTS with purchased powers, but civvie win conditions OR indies building monopolies and potential hotels that will require the baddies to shell out real $$? I think FZ asked this question originally, and I don't think anyone really addressed the issue.

I definitely think that discussing what would most benefit the baddies should be the big topic.

Standard civvies would make it easier for the non-rails/utils to win, but going the other route might make it HARDER for the baddies to win, might present more competition. I could see going wither way, although, I find it unlikely that every civ will agree to do the non search thing, pretty much rendering it moot. Because you can pledge not to search all you want, if someone else finds you, it still affects your status & win conditions.

@boo~ if someone who is the member of a completed monopoly is lynched, will their Monopoly status as well as their card be revealed? Since being in a monopoly has effected their win conditions, and they are no longer really a "civ"? And if the member of a monopoly is deaded, does the remainder of the team revert to civ, or are they still a LMS team?

I need to reread the rail/util sections of the host posts.

It is working now, thanks!

Also if people bid on properties we have no way of knowing whether they have an associated property (keep in mind there a couple sets of just two). Which reminds me if you get all of set that you are not associated with what does that do? Are you still a civilian?

[Degobunny]

Well actually take some of that back based on the board we wil know if a particular group has formed a mafia. So at least there is that level of transparency.

[Degobunny]

So at what point does this townie union dissolve if enough groups find each other?

[Degobunny]

I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies, and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union.

You are my new hero.

Don't get me wrong union have a place and it is good for people who need representation however at certain point the union ceases to be what it was intended and becomes part of the problem.

[keys56000000000]

Well, you too, Llama!

I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies,

I'm hoping that my fellow civs will see the benefit in sticking together. Anyone who doesn't stick with us will be forfeiting that benefit, Let me posit a scenario:

It's day 9. We've been lucky in our lynches and have eliminated most of the mafia, there's only one or two left. There are a few civs who have found a teammate, but no one's been lucky enough to complete a set. Just as you and the other civs are poised to win the game, you find your last partner and form a team. Now it's you and one or two other players, who were about to win with the civs, and now you have to defeat the civs, some of whom have BTSC with another player but aren't yet in a complete set. It's possible you could win, but the odds will be against you. It seems like you would have been better off just sticking with them all along.

and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union

How would it lead to townie death? And yes I agree that unions can be corrupt, but that's taking this union metaphor too far. I don't think they prey on people who don't want to join the union, that's not my understanding of union corruption. Isn't it more that the mafia controls the unions for their own gain? The mafia can't control this union. What are they going to get us to do? All I'm suggesting is that we stay undivided. They can't manipulate that.

Is it in the mafia's interests to have a union in this game? Can they control us? I don't think so. I think their biggest threat is being lynched. Having extra mafia teams might even benefit them, since more mafia teams means more trouble for the remaining civs.

[Degobunny]

Well, you too, Llama!

I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies,

I'm hoping that my fellow civs will see the benefit in sticking together. Anyone who doesn't stick with us will be forfeiting that benefit, Let me posit a scenario:

It's day 9. We've been lucky in our lynches and have eliminated most of the mafia, there's only one or two left. There are a few civs who have found a teammate, but no one's been lucky enough to complete a set. Just as you and the other civs are poised to win the game, you find your last partner and form a team. Now it's you and one or two other players, who were about to win with the civs, and now you have to defeat the civs, some of whom have BTSC with another player but aren't yet in a complete set. It's possible you could win, but the odds will be against you. It seems like you would have been better off just sticking with them all along.

and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union

How would it lead to townie death? And yes I agree that unions can be corrupt, but that's taking this union metaphor too far. I don't think they prey on people who don't want to join the union, that's not my understanding of union corruption. Isn't it more that the mafia controls the unions for their own gain? The mafia can't control this union. What are they going to get us to do? All I'm suggesting is that we stay undivided. They can't manipulate that.

Is it in the mafia's interests to have a union in this game? Can they control us? I don't think so. I think their biggest threat is being lynched. Having extra mafia teams might even benefit them, since more mafia teams means more trouble for the remaining civs.

Mafia manipulate and control games all the time. It is in there best interests to prevent monopolies from happening, cause the will run into problems when they start landing on hotels. However, I will consider what you are saying, that is the best I can do at this point.

[keys56000000000]

Well, you too, Llama!

I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies,

I'm hoping that my fellow civs will see the benefit in sticking together. Anyone who doesn't stick with us will be forfeiting that benefit, Let me posit a scenario:

It's day 9. We've been lucky in our lynches and have eliminated most of the mafia, there's only one or two left. There are a few civs who have found a teammate, but no one's been lucky enough to complete a set. Just as you and the other civs are poised to win the game, you find your last partner and form a team. Now it's you and one or two other players, who were about to win with the civs, and now you have to defeat the civs, some of whom have BTSC with another player but aren't yet in a complete set. It's possible you could win, but the odds will be against you. It seems like you would have been better off just sticking with them all along.

and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union

How would it lead to townie death? And yes I agree that unions can be corrupt, but that's taking this union metaphor too far. I don't think they prey on people who don't want to join the union, that's not my understanding of union corruption. Isn't it more that the mafia controls the unions for their own gain? The mafia can't control this union. What are they going to get us to do? All I'm suggesting is that we stay undivided. They can't manipulate that.

Is it in the mafia's interests to have a union in this game? Can they control us? I don't think so. I think their biggest threat is being lynched. Having extra mafia teams might even benefit them, since more mafia teams means more trouble for the remaining civs.

Mafia manipulate and control games all the time. It is in there best interests to prevent monopolies from happening, cause the will run into problems when they start landing on hotels. However, I will consider what you are saying, that is the best I can do at this point.

I hear that, but is the money really important? What they really want is to eliminate everybody. What we really want is to eliminate them. That's how the game is won, right? I have to look more at the rules and figure out exactly how important the money is..

[thellama73]

The money is very important because if you run out of it, you die.

[juliets]

Can someone tell me what this means:

6. LoRab = 12 (6+6), Electric Company (roll is 3+1=4*10, EC gets $40 from bank, learns role).

Does that mean the person who is the Electric Company (which i believe is a utility thus a baddie) learns Lorab's role? I don't remember reading that anywhere but I can't think of anything else it means.

[sabie12]

Wow I guess I missed out on a lot of stuff already. It's hard to decide day one lynches since not much has happened yet.

[Turnip Head]

Can someone tell me what this means:

6. LoRab = 12 (6+6), Electric Company (roll is 3+1=4*10, EC gets $40 from bank, learns role).

Does that mean the person who is the Electric Company (which i believe is a utility thus a baddie) learns Lorab's role? I don't remember reading that anywhere but I can't think of anything else it means.

I had to look it up too since it pertained to me. If you land on a utility they will learn your role and get money from the bank.

After Day 1, the utilities rolechecked Elo, Lorab and me, and they earned $190 from the 3 of us landing there.

[keys56000000000]

The money is very important because if you run out of it, you die.

Ah, I missed that very important point. Yes, very important indeed. Hmmz..

[Elohcin]

A$ I did today in real life, I voted.

What?! You better just be checkin' the changeable vote mechanism

[FZ.]

Can someone tell me what this means:

6. LoRab = 12 (6+6), Electric Company (roll is 3+1=4*10, EC gets $40 from bank, learns role).

Does that mean the person who is the Electric Company (which i believe is a utility thus a baddie) learns Lorab's role? I don't remember reading that anywhere but I can't think of anything else it means.

I had to look it up too since it pertained to me. If you land on a utility they will learn your role and get money from the bank.

After Day 1, the utilities rolechecked Elo, Lorab and me, and they earned $190 from the 3 of us landing there.

That's what I meant when I said the baddies get loads more money than the civs each day. Question is, how important is it. Assuming most of the civs don't run out of money, I actually agree with almost everything Key said.
If we don't go looking for power, and stick to trying to lynch the mafia, we have a lot more chances of winning the game.

[FZ.]

So, the fact Epig used so much money for the bid, makes me think he's EC who got 190$ which is probably be where my vote will go

[thellama73]

It doesn't work. Game theory. We've been over this, people. Why isn't Alex here to back me up?

[thellama73]

Nash equilibrium? Anyone? C'mon!

[Marmot]

Vote changing should be enabled, and works for me, but isn't working for Epi (apparently it's been an issue in another game as well). Just a heads up.

MP fixed it in my game, so we'll have to see what he can do here.

He probably won't fix it unless he get's his luxury tax back.

[FZ.]

Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

[FZ.]

llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

[thellama73]

Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.

llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.

[HannaK]

Okay so I have caught up (sort of anyway) and I have a question/concern/thought

Team 2: Utilities (2)
This team starts the game with BTSC. Kills even nights. Cannot be NKed by the Railroads. Any player who lands on a utility will have their property learned by the utilities, and if they are ever lynched, the utilities will have $300 applied to a bid on the property.

I am slightly confused, doesn't this give the baddies away more easily as they are more likely to 'win' the bet, or does this simply mean that the baddies need to be careful in terms of what they are bidding so as not to give themselves away? (or, which can also be the case: am I just not getting it)


Also, I am quite a conservative player in any board game so no bidding for me yet About the whole teaming up question and which cards to buy, it's kinda tricky I mean I can easily see this game becoming about trying to stop (assumed) BTSC teams from aquiring certain properties rather than focusing on lynching bad guys, but then again, if you think certain people have BTSC then they become baddies for you as well since they are out to kill you as well eventually
The only thing to really go on right now is 'following the money' as it is more likely baddies spend more money on powers/bids since they have more than other players

[FZ.]

Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.

llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.

There is no way to verify, but why should it matter to you if you're a civ who doesn't agree with this strategy? If anyone should care about not following the strategy it's the civs who don't want the other civs to look for their sets. So, the fact you're fighting for this so strongly makes me think you have a sinister agenda

[thellama73]

Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.

llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.

There is no way to verify, but why should it matter to you if you're a civ who doesn't agree with this strategy? If anyone should care about not following the strategy it's the civs who don't want the other civs to look for their sets. So, the fact you're fighting for this so strongly makes me think you have a sinister agenda

Look, you do what you want. I am using my night power to try to complete my monopoly and I think others would be foolish not to do so as well. The naive one or two people who follow this strategy will be left as a civ team of one or two people without BTSC. That's what's going to happen. I am just telling the truth and not trying to gin up support for a strategy that goes against human nature and leaves the credulous out to dry. I will also be voting for one of the supporters of the strategy, most likely Long Con at this point.

[FZ.]

Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.

llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.

There is no way to verify, but why should it matter to you if you're a civ who doesn't agree with this strategy? If anyone should care about not following the strategy it's the civs who don't want the other civs to look for their sets. So, the fact you're fighting for this so strongly makes me think you have a sinister agenda

Look, you do what you want. I am using my night power to try to complete my monopoly and I think others would be foolish not to do so as well. The naive one or two people who follow this strategy will be left as a civ team of one or two people without BTSC. That's what's going to happen. I am just telling the truth and not trying to gin up support for a strategy that goes against human nature and leaves the credulous out to dry. I will also be voting for one of the supporters of the strategy, most likely Long Con at this point.

Well, we'll agree to disagree and I' will most likely vote Epig or you

[thellama73]

Or maybe I'll vote for MP for not showing up to drop some accountant knowledge on y'all.

[FZ.]

And by the way, it's not like I play most games with BTSC...so what's another one?

[Long Con]

So, say S~V~S (random name) gets lynched today, and she ends up being St Charles Place. Lorab wins the bid and gets St Charles place.

Next lynch, we assume that Lorab won the bid because she is States Ave or Virginia Ave, and we lynch her on Day 2 for trying to get a colour group together.

Is there another scenario anyone has (names aside) for how this is going to go? Is everyone going to be scared to bid for a lynched player's property? What happens to that property if no one bids on it?

[thellama73]

LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.

[FZ.]

So, say S~V~S (random name) gets lynched today, and she ends up being St Charles Place. Lorab wins the bid and gets St Charles place.

Next lynch, we assume that Lorab won the bid because she is States Ave or Virginia Ave, and we lynch her on Day 2 for trying to get a colour group together.

Is there another scenario anyone has (names aside) for how this is going to go? Is everyone going to be scared to bid for a lynched player's property? What happens to that property if no one bids on it?

That's what I'm thinking. Why would someone bid on any property if it's going to get them a higher chance of being lynched? Just to prevent others from doing it? Sounds silly to me

[FZ.]

LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.

But if someone gains a set, they become mafia themselves, don't they?

[juliets]

LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.

But if someone gains a set, they become mafia themselves, don't they?

They dont have a kill, at least as far as i can tell.

[keys56000000000]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

[thellama73]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

[FZ.]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?

[keys56000000000]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I do understand that, but saying "Nash equilibrium" doesn't prove that it's in the civilians best interests to find their partners. Our best move is yet to be established.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Right! And the more players stay civ, the stronger our lynch power is.

[FZ.]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?

The fact that there's no way to detect cheaters doesn't mean we can't do it. If we all agree that ideally, not forming BTSC is better for the civvies, then we don't need to find cheaters because that's not our worry.

[Long Con]

So, we should rely on the Mafias to kill players who win lynched property bids? It does seem to be in their interest to prevent colour groups from forming. What happens to the property of nightkilled players? Do they go up for auction as well?

I'm just trying to see a scenario where bidding on a property would benefit a person, when death is the most likely outcome.

[FZ.]

I'm going to bed. Voting Epi for using so much money.

[thellama73]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?

I don't understand your point.

I am distressed at the direction this thread has gone. I am barely paying attention to this game with all the other stuff I have going on, and it took me exactly two seconds to see why the "civs ignore all the gifts the host has given you" strategy is terrible. I can't believe how easily the flock is being led into bad decisions.

Look, building hotels is the only way we can get money (barring a few chance cards and an occasional pass go.) The Mafia have ample ability to make money and use it to buy property and other goodies, while at the same time depleting our money. If we run out of money, we die. This strategy hands victory to the railroads and utilities. Please think about it for two seconds before posting a reactionary NO U response. You, MM, Long Con, and Keys are working on behalf of the baddies with this sort of talk.

[thellama73]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I do understand that, but saying "Nash equilibrium" doesn't prove that it's in the civilians best interests to find their partners. Our best move is yet to be established.

It is better for the individual to have BTSC than not to have BSTC.
It is better for the individual to be able to build hotels and make money, than not to be able to do that.
It is better for the individual not to be one of a handful who did not bother to try to find their teammates, facing a series of LMS teams in addition to baddies.

To me, it is abundantly clear that civvies who neglect to find their partners are acting against their own interests.

[thellama73]

I have one final thing to say on the subject and I'll stop. To any civvies considering not finding your teammates: don't forget about money. Without a team, you cannot generate reliable income streams. Your money will slowly be drained away from you and, if the mafia doesn't kill you, you will go bankrupt and you will die. Factor that into your decision on whether to use your night power.

[keys56000000000]

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?

I don't understand your point.

I am distressed at the direction this thread has gone. I am barely paying attention to this game with all the other stuff I have going on, and it took me exactly two seconds to see why the "civs ignore all the gifts the host has given you" strategy is terrible. I can't believe how easily the flock is being led into bad decisions.

Look, building hotels is the only way we can get money (barring a few chance cards and an occasional pass go.) The Mafia have ample ability to make money and use it to buy property and other goodies, while at the same time depleting our money. If we run out of money, we die. This strategy hands victory to the railroads and utilities. Please think about it for two seconds before posting a reactionary NO U response. You, MM, Long Con, and Keys are working on behalf of the baddies with this sort of talk.

You keep saying "we", but if you go the way you want to go, there is no we.

It is better for the individual to have BTSC than not to have BSTC.

Depends. Is it better to be a civilian with a BTSC partner than a lone civ? Yes. Is it better to be a 2-man indy team against the mafia and the civs? Maybe not.

It is better for the individual to be able to build hotels and make money, than not to be able to do that.

I guess insofar as they have a cushion against dying, yes, this is probably true. Once hotels are up, poor civvies are running the gauntlet.

It is better for the individual not to be one of a handful who did not bother to try to find their teammates, facing a series of LMS teams in addition to baddies.

I doubt that many people will find their partners. You get one shot per night and there's 28 players. Maybe one or two sets will form, if everyone searched. I remained entirely unconvinced that civs will find themselves surrounded by teams.

To me, it is abundantly clear that civvies who neglect to find their partners are acting against their own interests.

There's only 6 baddies. All we have to do is lynch them before we run out of money. You might find that when you're in your team against the rest of us, that hotel isn't enough to win it. Maybe civs will get lucky and not land on it.

[birdwithteeth11]

Yeah make it rain!

$60 on the extra die role power!

I'll make $ure you get an extra die.

you gonna keep up he $$$$$ all game Epi?

Ca$h rule$ everything around me.

Best. Response. Ever.