Grasslands [Game Thread]

[staypositivefriend]

From a classical POE perspective, we'd presently need a pool of five. Congruently we'd need five non-self civilians. Can we get there? I have comfortable town reads on:

SPF
tutuu

Well, shit. That's as far as I get right now. If I allow myself to give more generous town credit and trust vaguer instincts, then I would go with Hally and nutella.

I would like your thoughts on Tutuu, if possible.

what's your plan to solve the game today? who do u feel the most comfortable w/being town right now?

I'm having *some* second thoughts about Tutuu and Jagged, and would like their answers to my 2 questions above.

Provided that I don't feel like something is off only then will I look more into the whole Hally + Thunal + Alison messes.

Right now something doesn't feel right to me, and while I do realize that's a similar feeling I had for Nova, one of the things I've said earlier on this game is I've been debating between more "methodical" and more "gut" play.

I want to lean on my gut a bit here again.

i'm finding myself in a similar position, in that i think very broadly that something is off with this game. to be more specific, i'm having trouble locking down onto a solid scumread/suspicion, and that usually only happens to me when competent players are playing a good enough game to evade suspicion. that indicates to me that at least one of the players that i consider very "strong" in this game is scum (ie: sloonei/alison/jagged), and it's why i'm specifically digging into that pool

that said, i actually am feeling more okay about tutuu being town after reading the treehouse and seeing her attitude today. i like that she's specifically emphasizing that we ~shouldn't~ townread her for her frustration, and i also think that her refusal to out a read on me is something that's more likely to come from her as town than as scum. she struggled to read me a lot in radiohead mafia, and i can see a natural progression from that game to her just saying: "ill let the other people read spf" in this game

[MartinGG99]

Martin pls control + f "alison" in the quick topic and the last 2 pages of this thread, i really dont feel like rewriting stuff ive written, im sorry!

So you're admitting that many of the arguments made for your change of opinion on Alison are from others?

In fact, you even said this in the QT:

I think Alison is town because she always seems to get herself scumread and in the PoE as town except that one time in Radiohead where she tryharded because she got pissed of it happening. If she's Mafia here she's playing poorly and I have trust in her that she would play her hearts out if she was Mafia.

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I am tinfoiling that Tutuu is scum here.

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I am tinfoiling that Tutuu is scum here.

Please let me know if I am out of my mind btw.

[staypositivefriend]

Honestly I am tinfoiling that Tutuu is scum here.

can you talk to me about this? what specific things are making u worry about her?

[tutuu]

It’s a town list lol

Thanks for elaborating, i still was confused, and i was even more confused after u said "town cores are hard sometimes" lol

[tutuu]

Martin pls control + f "alison" in the quick topic and the last 2 pages of this thread, i really dont feel like rewriting stuff ive written, im sorry!

So you're admitting that many of the arguments made for your change of opinion on Alison are from others?

In fact, you even said this in the QT:

I think Alison is town because she always seems to get herself scumread and in the PoE as town except that one time in Radiohead where she tryharded because she got pissed of it happening. If she's Mafia here she's playing poorly and I have trust in her that she would play her hearts out if she was Mafia.

Yes i was assuming carotte will flip scum. Alison looks bad then. She had a lot of w/w equity with carotte

Carotte flipping town made me think - looks like alison isnt in that bad of a position after all, which was the cause of my townread

I made this exact post on this day phase a few hours ago martin

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I am tinfoiling that Tutuu is scum here.

can you talk to me about this? what specific things are making u worry about her?

Her progression on Alison. It just looks funky at times, maybe even fence sitting. Not to mention she was town-reading Alison for large parts of D1 iirc.

But within an hour or two earlier she puts Alison fairly high on her scum-read list.

Also if she's scum I think her stance regarding her reads of "I think everyone else is town" or something like that is mean to make her quite maneuverable without being put in a box for her reads.

I can get the quotes, but it'll take some time.

[MartinGG99]

Martin pls control + f "alison" in the quick topic and the last 2 pages of this thread, i really dont feel like rewriting stuff ive written, im sorry!

So you're admitting that many of the arguments made for your change of opinion on Alison are from others?

In fact, you even said this in the QT:

I think Alison is town because she always seems to get herself scumread and in the PoE as town except that one time in Radiohead where she tryharded because she got pissed of it happening. If she's Mafia here she's playing poorly and I have trust in her that she would play her hearts out if she was Mafia.

Yes i was assuming carotte will flip scum. Alison looks bad then. She had a lot of w/w equity with carotte

Carotte flipping town made me think - looks like alison isnt in that bad of a position after all, which was the cause of my townread

I made this exact post on this day phase a few hours ago martin

"If she's Mafia here she's playing poorly and I have trust in her that she would play her hearts out if she was Mafia."

This statement seems like it applied regardless of anyone else's alignment in the game imo.

[Sloonei]

I do not feel like tutuu would introduce her theory about Hally and then tell me she wasn't gonna do anything with it if she was mafia. That just reads like "I'm town, idk you do the work." In fact, that's practically paraphrasing what she actually said to me.

[tutuu]

Yea about the "u guys shouldnt townread me when i express frustration" thing - i just want u guys to consider i could be scum and faking it, and i dont want anyone to feel cheated and burned. I am telling u as a player regardless of my alignment that i felt justified in my annoyance of how eod1 happened and i would say everything in the QT regardless of my alignment. If u townread me for my frustration and u get burned - its on u, not on me. I hope we have a deal guys!

(I am also self aware that it looks towny that i seem like im worried about getting townread in an unfair way - i have faked that as mafia before just saying!)

[MartinGG99]

*These Quotes not in chronological order, but happened roughly around the same time*

Sloonei + Thunal + Jay/SPF

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

[VOTE: Thunal33] aubergine

Pre-emptive response to anyone who gives me crap for voting multiple ppl after what happened yesterday: kiss my ass

@tutuu you wanted my head on a pike in the tree house. What inspires your snap vote on Sloonei instead?

He is extremely scummy and i was sure carotte was mafia which would clear him. Well she aint, sheriff. Also i never scunread u proactively i just townread everyone else. Maybe ill still find myself scumreading u but not rn

Also all of this looked weird to me.

Especially in consideration with the Alison stuff:

*These quote are in chronological order*

I guess i can see alison mafia with carotte flipping town. Means that alison if mafia was not playing poorly like i thought she was. Shes in a good position rn imo if shes maf

Does alison + thunal w/w make sense? I found it a bit odd thunal voted alison eod1 just to show she wanna to vote her (like she put her at 4 votes, everyone was at 3, it was like "hey guys look at me im putting her at 4 votes"). Dunno

Definitely at least 1 maf in hally-alison-thun imo. Alison and thunal both sussed hally for putting themselves in the grassland, hally proactively sussed someone for putting them in the grassland as wifom. So it would be surprising if all 3 are town, and mafia would put hally there without seemingly taking advantage of it

Independently im scumreading thunal > alison > hally, separate from the grassland thing

[MartinGG99]

Her first instinct after the flip is to do the vote quotes (and a few other select posts)......but then 30 minutes later start speculating about Alison?

[MartinGG99]

Anyways, I probably have to go for the next 15 hours or so.

Feel free to tell me if I am insane or not.

[tutuu]

Ur not insane u just made a wrong read its alright bud

[Sloonei]

I have a few thoughts and concerns about Alison, but I would prefer to wait to see how she enters Day 2 before I put them in the thread.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

[Thunal33]

I'm leaving in a half hour. I won't be here for the final hour, so any last minute vote maneuvering for the protection will be out of my hands.

I can put a vote on Carot. That seems to be the consensus, at least, and I don't have reason to object. But I would like to present other options just in case, so I may look for a couple of alternatives. I still have a phantom vote on LC and would not mind it if his name remained in the conversation, though there is probably even less substance in his posts than Carot's.

I have grown suddenly wary of Alison in the last few minutes. It might just be indigestion. I don't know.

I'm suspicious of this post. I keep having mixed feelings on Sloonei this game but I misread that Sloonei put himself in a bad position with the Carotte elim. If he's scum he tried to put himself in a better position. Here it looks like he was hedging on purpose and not trying to take accountability. He wasn't really pushing Carotte and this "I don't have reason to object" feels like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty.

[Sloonei]

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

Do you mean making up the "groovy" thing?

Reading through thunal's posts now. I already stated a few gripes with her progression on me, but I didn't even see this. What even is this?

[Sloonei]

I'm leaving in a half hour. I won't be here for the final hour, so any last minute vote maneuvering for the protection will be out of my hands.

I can put a vote on Carot. That seems to be the consensus, at least, and I don't have reason to object. But I would like to present other options just in case, so I may look for a couple of alternatives. I still have a phantom vote on LC and would not mind it if his name remained in the conversation, though there is probably even less substance in his posts than Carot's.

I have grown suddenly wary of Alison in the last few minutes. It might just be indigestion. I don't know.

I'm suspicious of this post. I keep having mixed feelings on Sloonei this game but I misread that Sloonei put himself in a bad position with the Carotte elim. If he's scum he tried to put himself in a better position. Here it looks like he was hedging on purpose and not trying to take accountability. He wasn't really pushing Carotte and this "I don't have reason to object" feels like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty.

I don't care about having dirty hands. I want and strive to have a tangible impact on every elimination. I did not have a firm reason to read Carot as mafia, but I also did not have a firm reason to read her as town. As she was the overwhelming consensus suspect, I did not object. I take full responsibility for the votes that I placed, including the one on Carot.

[Thunal33]

Spoiler: show

I've read the thread.

r/IAmA

Spoiler alert, it felt more like reading for a book report lol. Having difficulty internalizing much.

It kind of feels like playing in a new community. Haven't played with more than half the player list, that's wild.

I'm kind of nervous lolol

Ted burns 4 posts in the span of 6 minutes to say virtually nothing. Is this sort of disregard for the post cap more indicative of a town whose nervous energy compels them to post whatever comes to mind, or is it a mafioso trying to look spastic for effect?

Why didn't you actually answer this question? Posing this as an open question looks like shade.

[Sloonei]

Spoiler: show

I've read the thread.

r/IAmA

Spoiler alert, it felt more like reading for a book report lol. Having difficulty internalizing much.

It kind of feels like playing in a new community. Haven't played with more than half the player list, that's wild.

I'm kind of nervous lolol

Ted burns 4 posts in the span of 6 minutes to say virtually nothing. Is this sort of disregard for the post cap more indicative of a town whose nervous energy compels them to post whatever comes to mind, or is it a mafioso trying to look spastic for effect?

Why didn't you actually answer this question? Posing this as an open question looks like shade.

I called ted nova a town read a couple minutes later. Read my posts.

[Sloonei]

I think I'm just going to start tinfoiling everyone right now. Nutella saying that Sloonei was lolcatting is a pretty clear misrep, he was barely there at all and certainly didn't make any jokes or flail like a caught scum. I don't really understand how town viewing that same chat could come to that conclusion (maaaaybe if they're heavily confbiased). I think I'm going to have to reevaluate pretty completely since Hally and Nutella were two of my top townreads but now I have some reason to think both of them are suspicious - and at the same time Alison's push on me seems like a losing one if she's mafia so she's actually looking a little better.

I am exaggerating a bit when I say sloonei was lolcatting, but he really did not post any serious content and seemed completely flippant about the night vote. He really felt detached in the way a deflated scum would.

Why would he be deflated? Town was yeeted.

Because he knew carotte's flip would cement him as the next priority suspect? I feel like that's pretty obvious

If he knew that all along why did he push for Carotte's elim? Why would scum!Sloonei be content with a status quo that heavily implicates him as scum after the Carotte town flip he knew would happen? And I just kind of feel like Sloonei would take more pride in his scum game than this and make more effort to get the suspicion off of him if he's scum, while as town he might want to address it but let his towniness speak for himself (projecting what I would do onto Sloonei since I don't know him).

Part of me feels like Thunal is trying too hard to paint my posts in a negative light, like a wolf trying desperately to keep the Sloonei paranoia going, but then I also read posts like these ones and they make me feel Not That.

[Long Con]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

[Sloonei]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

what should we do today, Mr. Con?

[Thunal33]

From a classical POE perspective, we'd presently need a pool of five. Congruently we'd need five non-self civilians. Can we get there? I have comfortable town reads on:

SPF
tutuu

Well, shit. That's as far as I get right now. If I allow myself to give more generous town credit and trust vaguer instincts, then I would go with Hally and nutella.

I would like your thoughts on Tutuu, if possible.

what's your plan to solve the game today? who do u feel the most comfortable w/being town right now?

I'm having *some* second thoughts about Tutuu and Jagged, and would like their answers to my 2 questions above.

Provided that I don't feel like something is off only then will I look more into the whole Hally + Thunal + Alison messes.

Right now something doesn't feel right to me, and while I do realize that's a similar feeling I had for Nova, one of the things I've said earlier on this game is I've been debating between more "methodical" and more "gut" play.

I want to lean on my gut a bit here again.

i'm finding myself in a similar position, in that i think very broadly that something is off with this game. to be more specific, i'm having trouble locking down onto a solid scumread/suspicion, and that usually only happens to me when competent players are playing a good enough game to evade suspicion. that indicates to me that at least one of the players that i consider very "strong" in this game is scum (ie: sloonei/alison/jagged), and it's why i'm specifically digging into that pool

that said, i actually am feeling more okay about tutuu being town after reading the treehouse and seeing her attitude today. i like that she's specifically emphasizing that we ~shouldn't~ townread her for her frustration, and i also think that her refusal to out a read on me is something that's more likely to come from her as town than as scum. she struggled to read me a lot in radiohead mafia, and i can see a natural progression from that game to her just saying: "ill let the other people read spf" in this game

I feel that way too, but the general threadstate was that people were at a consensus Carotte was mafia and had some consensus that Sloonei, Alison, and LC were suspicious. Nearly everyone agreed or at least didn't take issue with this PoE pool which makes me think scum were happy with the status quo. That doesn't mean the PoE pool contains all townies but I think it contains at most one wolf for this reason. Also I get the feeling (can't really explain it) that there's a deepwolf this game hiding in our town reads.

[tutuu]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

fair enough. same reason why i struggle with reading spf. im still not sure if anyone has ever even seen her scum game lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

Yeh, it’s more that I usually read her off a combination of quantity and how often she hits her town markers within that quantity, but in post capped game in general that’s tough and this game specifically is a bit harder cause the amount of conflict she’s been involved in.

[Long Con]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

what should we do today, Mr. Con?

I'm going to do some ISO looking today, and I'll get back to you on that, if that's ok.

[Thunal33]

From a classical POE perspective, we'd presently need a pool of five. Congruently we'd need five non-self civilians. Can we get there? I have comfortable town reads on:

SPF
tutuu

Well, shit. That's as far as I get right now. If I allow myself to give more generous town credit and trust vaguer instincts, then I would go with Hally and nutella.

I would like your thoughts on Tutuu, if possible.

what's your plan to solve the game today? who do u feel the most comfortable w/being town right now?

I'm having *some* second thoughts about Tutuu and Jagged, and would like their answers to my 2 questions above.

Provided that I don't feel like something is off only then will I look more into the whole Hally + Thunal + Alison messes.

Right now something doesn't feel right to me, and while I do realize that's a similar feeling I had for Nova, one of the things I've said earlier on this game is I've been debating between more "methodical" and more "gut" play.

I want to lean on my gut a bit here again.

i'm finding myself in a similar position, in that i think very broadly that something is off with this game. to be more specific, i'm having trouble locking down onto a solid scumread/suspicion, and that usually only happens to me when competent players are playing a good enough game to evade suspicion. that indicates to me that at least one of the players that i consider very "strong" in this game is scum (ie: sloonei/alison/jagged), and it's why i'm specifically digging into that pool

that said, i actually am feeling more okay about tutuu being town after reading the treehouse and seeing her attitude today. i like that she's specifically emphasizing that we ~shouldn't~ townread her for her frustration, and i also think that her refusal to out a read on me is something that's more likely to come from her as town than as scum. she struggled to read me a lot in radiohead mafia, and i can see a natural progression from that game to her just saying: "ill let the other people read spf" in this game

I feel that way too, but the general threadstate was that people were at a consensus Carotte was mafia and had some consensus that Sloonei, Alison, and LC were suspicious. Nearly everyone agreed or at least didn't take issue with this PoE pool which makes me think scum were happy with the status quo. That doesn't mean the PoE pool contains all townies but I think it contains at most one wolf for this reason. Also I get the feeling (can't really explain it) that there's a deepwolf this game hiding in our town reads.

I think I'm just going to start tinfoiling everyone right now. Nutella saying that Sloonei was lolcatting is a pretty clear misrep, he was barely there at all and certainly didn't make any jokes or flail like a caught scum. I don't really understand how town viewing that same chat could come to that conclusion (maaaaybe if they're heavily confbiased). I think I'm going to have to reevaluate pretty completely since Hally and Nutella were two of my top townreads but now I have some reason to think both of them are suspicious - and at the same time Alison's push on me seems like a losing one if she's mafia so she's actually looking a little better.

I am exaggerating a bit when I say sloonei was lolcatting, but he really did not post any serious content and seemed completely flippant about the night vote. He really felt detached in the way a deflated scum would.

Why would he be deflated? Town was yeeted.

Because he knew carotte's flip would cement him as the next priority suspect? I feel like that's pretty obvious

If he knew that all along why did he push for Carotte's elim? Why would scum!Sloonei be content with a status quo that heavily implicates him as scum after the Carotte town flip he knew would happen? And I just kind of feel like Sloonei would take more pride in his scum game than this and make more effort to get the suspicion off of him if he's scum, while as town he might want to address it but let his towniness speak for himself (projecting what I would do onto Sloonei since I don't know him).

Part of me feels like Thunal is trying too hard to paint my posts in a negative light, like a wolf trying desperately to keep the Sloonei paranoia going, but then I also read posts like these ones and they make me feel Not That.

Reading my posts again I'm feeling like maybe you are town. "Content with the status quo" really does describe your post saying you would go along with voting Carotte since you didn't have an opinion on them. If you were scum trying to get yourself in a good position with the Carotte flip your reaction definitely wasn't the way to do that. Still really unsure on you, I feel like there's points going both ways. In my post about you pushing for Carotte's elim, I was sort of playing devil's advocate and I didn't townread you. I do feel like you would take more action or try something more than voting Carotte because you don't object if you were scum and you knew you would look bad off a Carotte town flip.

[Hally]

page 18

reading grass chat. hally sounds genuine and is making me doubt my tr of thunal bc it makes sense that she'd send hally based on prior experience

i just want to clarify that i don’t believe this in and of itself is a strong enough point to warrant serious suspicion on thunal. it was a thought i had because i was thinking about my last experience playing this setup and thun was in the game, so it was a natural connection to draw. that doesn’t have to mean thun was behind sending me this game, and i don’t want this kind of wifom to be given too much weight. if you tr thun on play, you should stick with that

not surprised at all

here’s our chat: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/8ewu5a49uY8NC

will be around later

When did you make that transition to thinking Carotte was town? You pushed to get her in the grasslands and you were pretty confident she was scum, but the second you got in the QT chat you suddenly felt she was town. Why didn't you look at Carotte's scum game before you were in the grasslands together? I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect in your thought process on Carotte.

i thought i explained why i thought carotte would be town in the chat but i’ll try to make it clearer

the last time we both played this setup i pushed hard all of D1 on gia and got her sent to the grassland. i was sent too by scum along with dizzy who was chosen by town. and one of the first things dizzy said in the chat that night was that me being there probably meant gia was town because if she was mafia like i’d thought, i’d have been killed rather than sent. he was right, gia was town

fast forward to this game where i pushed hard on carotte and then found myself sent to the grasslands with her and spf. when i saw that it immediately made me think of the time before and what me being there could mean. it was a natural conclusion to think, based on that previous experience, that the reason i was sent was because carotte was town

once i had that thought i went to check her scum game in amdibals just to check if my hunch was right and saw pretty easily that she was different. i thought to do that some time during D1 actually but i just forgot to check it probably because i got caught up in posting. i’m also realizing as i write this that i still haven’t looked at the games i asked sloonei for. sometimes i just forge to do things idk

but anyway, that was my thought process re: carotte

man i still just find thunal trustworthy and her point about hally's convenient timing on the carotte realization is intriguing


thunal v hally tdome i guess?? lol

i don’t know why you would suggest that but uh, absolutely not

not actually here but uh

what on earth happened in that treehouse

We took turns dipping each other in mayonnaise

oh. lovely

reading grass chat. hally sounds genuine and is making me doubt my tr of thunal bc it makes sense that she'd send hally based on prior experience

I actually think Hally looks less genuine in the grasslands (and them suspecting me has nothing to do with it). In one of Hally's scum games they put in lots of emotion and were very dramatic but it was coming from a place that didn't make sense. They faked a derp that game and pretended they literally didn't look at the flip because they assumed the flipped was scum and then went "WAIT WHAAAAT HOW ARE THEY TOWN" and was very dramatic. I feel like Hally's sudden flip on Carotte and saying she looked very different from her scum game might not come from a place that makes sense. Why didn't Hally actually evaluate this beforehand?

read my explanation above please. also as an aside, the thing you’re referencing was completely different from that. that was me faking that i didn’t know my teammate had flipped scum to derp clear myself, whereas this was me realizing that i was wrong about carotte being scum and correctly saying she was town. one is a fake derp, the other you can call tmi if you want but it makes complete sense when you consider that this game so far is basically a rerun of last time. i’m obviously going to apply what i learned last time to this game, and that’s where my realization on carotte came from

jay do you still want to wait a bit before linking the chat?

Let's share Alison's gripes first and see what happens before linking.

The following comes from @Alison, not me, and is for @Hally:

- I've explained my case on Thunal in the thread already. Extra stuff at EOD was bad: moving to a full on scumread on me (from "uncertain") in a very opportunistic manner, right after I went to bed and can't defend myself, and right after other people voiced suspicion of me.

- Many people were unmoved by my push on Thunal, but Hally seems to take it surprisingly personally and lashed out at me for it. Notably, Hally's attack on me felt more like a chainsaw than the other suspicions on me. (compare JJJ's "I think Alison's read is fake" to Hally's line, which was more like "Thunal is a villager and you are scummy for senselessly attacking her!")

- Here's the big one. When LC triple voted the scummiest players in the game, Hally had no objection and went along with it. But at the start of the game they mentioned that they thought only voting one person and not diluting votes was important; and that the last time they played this setup, scum triple voted all the top wagons to deny themselves accountability. From that point of view, it's extremely suspicious that Hally did not raise any issue with Sloonei (someone she was scumreading earlier in the day) doing so.

1) i did not lash out at alison or take her push on thun personally. i have no idea how my posts re: that could be construed as such but i think it’s a misrepresentation

2) i didn’t have an issue with sloonei doing that probably because at that point i was convinced carotte was mafia and that sloonei was town because of that. now we know that carotte was town, and if you look at the grasslands chat, i did make a point of saying that carotte being town would be a bad look for sloonei because he avoided giving a concrete stance on carotte for basically the entire day despite the attention she was getting. his voting at EoD is a part of that problematic posture, but i think it goes beyond that. generally, i don’t think sloonei made a real effort to solve carotte’s alignment D1 or affect the elimination in any way and he needs to answer for that

not actually here but uh

what on earth happened in that treehouse

Did you look at the chat yet? I just linked it.

where? i didn’t see a link

[Sloonei]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

what should we do today, Mr. Con?

I'm going to do some ISO looking today, and I'll get back to you on that, if that's ok.

Which ISOs do you want to look at and why? if you're not already doing that.

Reading my posts again I'm feeling like maybe you are town. "Content with the status quo" really does describe your post saying you would go along with voting Carotte since you didn't have an opinion on them. If you were scum trying to get yourself in a good position with the Carotte flip your reaction definitely wasn't the way to do that. Still really unsure on you, I feel like there's points going both ways. In my post about you pushing for Carotte's elim, I was sort of playing devil's advocate and I didn't townread you. I do feel like you would take more action or try something more than voting Carotte because you don't object if you were scum and you knew you would look bad off a Carotte town flip.

Gun to your head, what is my alignment?

If I am town, and both the top wagons yesterday were mistaken, who should we be looking at today?

[Thunal33]

page 18

reading grass chat. hally sounds genuine and is making me doubt my tr of thunal bc it makes sense that she'd send hally based on prior experience

i just want to clarify that i don’t believe this in and of itself is a strong enough point to warrant serious suspicion on thunal. it was a thought i had because i was thinking about my last experience playing this setup and thun was in the game, so it was a natural connection to draw. that doesn’t have to mean thun was behind sending me this game, and i don’t want this kind of wifom to be given too much weight. if you tr thun on play, you should stick with that

not surprised at all

here’s our chat: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/8ewu5a49uY8NC

will be around later

When did you make that transition to thinking Carotte was town? You pushed to get her in the grasslands and you were pretty confident she was scum, but the second you got in the QT chat you suddenly felt she was town. Why didn't you look at Carotte's scum game before you were in the grasslands together? I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect in your thought process on Carotte.

i thought i explained why i thought carotte would be town in the chat but i’ll try to make it clearer

the last time we both played this setup i pushed hard all of D1 on gia and got her sent to the grassland. i was sent too by scum along with dizzy who was chosen by town. and one of the first things dizzy said in the chat that night was that me being there probably meant gia was town because if she was mafia like i’d thought, i’d have been killed rather than sent. he was right, gia was town

fast forward to this game where i pushed hard on carotte and then found myself sent to the grasslands with her and spf. when i saw that it immediately made me think of the time before and what me being there could mean. it was a natural conclusion to think, based on that previous experience, that the reason i was sent was because carotte was town

once i had that thought i went to check her scum game in amdibals just to check if my hunch was right and saw pretty easily that she was different. i thought to do that some time during D1 actually but i just forgot to check it probably because i got caught up in posting. i’m also realizing as i write this that i still haven’t looked at the games i asked sloonei for. sometimes i just forge to do things idk

but anyway, that was my thought process re: carotte

man i still just find thunal trustworthy and her point about hally's convenient timing on the carotte realization is intriguing


thunal v hally tdome i guess?? lol

i don’t know why you would suggest that but uh, absolutely not

not actually here but uh

what on earth happened in that treehouse

We took turns dipping each other in mayonnaise

oh. lovely

reading grass chat. hally sounds genuine and is making me doubt my tr of thunal bc it makes sense that she'd send hally based on prior experience

I actually think Hally looks less genuine in the grasslands (and them suspecting me has nothing to do with it). In one of Hally's scum games they put in lots of emotion and were very dramatic but it was coming from a place that didn't make sense. They faked a derp that game and pretended they literally didn't look at the flip because they assumed the flipped was scum and then went "WAIT WHAAAAT HOW ARE THEY TOWN" and was very dramatic. I feel like Hally's sudden flip on Carotte and saying she looked very different from her scum game might not come from a place that makes sense. Why didn't Hally actually evaluate this beforehand?

read my explanation above please. also as an aside, the thing you’re referencing was completely different from that. that was me faking that i didn’t know my teammate had flipped scum to derp clear myself, whereas this was me realizing that i was wrong about carotte being scum and correctly saying she was town. one is a fake derp, the other you can call tmi if you want but it makes complete sense when you consider that this game so far is basically a rerun of last time. i’m obviously going to apply what i learned last time to this game, and that’s where my realization on carotte came from

That actually makes a lot of sense. I knew that your turnaround had something to do with you getting sent but I found it hard to believe that you turned around that fast on reasons I wasn't sure of. Yeah, it makes sense that if Carotte were scum you wouldn't be sent.

[Alison]

Dont tell me u DMd her rofl

No, I just wanted to try a weird trap and see if Hally had access to the treehouse from scumchat.

I did not link it, I wanted Hally to say something like "yeah I skimmed it" so that I could potentially catch them.

is it weird that i townread this?

no, it was one of the things thunal has done that's to her credit.

All the rest of my issues with her still stand though.

[Long Con]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

what should we do today, Mr. Con?

I'm going to do some ISO looking today, and I'll get back to you on that, if that's ok.

Which ISOs do you want to look at and why? if you're not already doing that.

nutella is the first name to come to mind. I've seen some people say she's towny, but I don't know why.

[Alison]

I want to read nutella as a civilian, and I am afraid to do so because she only seems to trust me when she's evil.

I have good feelings about JJJ overall but dislike this hedge on nutella.

[Alison]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

[Thunal33]

Eh I’m not sure I can read tutu this game

I think it's going to be really hard to know, when she finally rands wolf, due to her having no wolf records on this site. I don't know what it looks like.

what should we do today, Mr. Con?

I'm going to do some ISO looking today, and I'll get back to you on that, if that's ok.

Which ISOs do you want to look at and why? if you're not already doing that.

Reading my posts again I'm feeling like maybe you are town. "Content with the status quo" really does describe your post saying you would go along with voting Carotte since you didn't have an opinion on them. If you were scum trying to get yourself in a good position with the Carotte flip your reaction definitely wasn't the way to do that. Still really unsure on you, I feel like there's points going both ways. In my post about you pushing for Carotte's elim, I was sort of playing devil's advocate and I didn't townread you. I do feel like you would take more action or try something more than voting Carotte because you don't object if you were scum and you knew you would look bad off a Carotte town flip.

Gun to your head, what is my alignment?

If I am town, and both the top wagons yesterday were mistaken, who should we be looking at today?

GTH I guess I would say you're town. Your ISO actually looks okay overall. I think we should be looking at Alison and LC but I also get the "town is clueless right now" vibe from the thread and SPF does too. I think there's at least one deepwolf this game since the PoE is just you/Alison/LC/me and I don't believe there are 3 wolves there. Tutuu/Hally are my deepwolf suspects but not for much reason other than PoE among the generally townread people.

[Hally]

Dont tell me u DMd her rofl

No, I just wanted to try a weird trap and see if Hally had access to the treehouse from scumchat.

Dont tell me u DMd her rofl

No, I just wanted to try a weird trap and see if Hally had access to the treehouse from scumchat.

I did not link it, I wanted Hally to say something like "yeah I skimmed it" so that I could potentially catch them.

Oh was a joke lol soz

Ur like, a dry humor type of gal aint ya? Or how do u call it. Pan faced? Stone faced

Not really a joke either. I just thought I maybe had a 0.001% chance of catching scum!Hally in a small gambit.

this ^ is a villager

fwiw i don't think it'll be super fruitful to analyze nova's reads since i think he was a good kill choice precisely because his reads weren't very developed and yet he was a pretty universal townread. that's pretty much an optimal kill target -- someone who is commonly accepted as town, but who didn't actually provide a ton of content for us to delve in and analyze as motivation/spew.

i tend to agree in that i think he was killed more so because he was basically threadspewed v, but his reads shouldn’t be entirely ignored at least

@Sloonei what is my alignment?

oh i wanted to ask sloonei this too because i realized in the night that he never gave a read on you D1?

Does alison + thunal w/w make sense? I found it a bit odd thunal voted alison eod1 just to show she wanna to vote her (like she put her at 4 votes, everyone was at 3, it was like "hey guys look at me im putting her at 4 votes"). Dunno

no, i don’t think alison would hard push thun as w/w. it’s just unnecessary

@JaggedJimmyJay, I don't think Hally is going to be available to answer your thing for a while, and I think you should weigh that with the priority of providing spf the context of the night chat.

I mean hell, if Hally is mafia then they already have a link in their chat. Hally don't click on this until you answer the previous query.

Spoiler: show

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/yE36jXPGW2v6p

will look at this now

im curious, why did you want to wait for me to answer before linking it?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

Carot is town and SPF is mafia -> better to send second mafia most of the time, makes sure that town dies

Carot is town and SPF is town -> better to send third town, makes sure that town dies


There’s obviously some amount of uncertainty in this cause it’s not immediately clear how many mafia will think about it this way, and there’s some room for playing suboptimally on purpose even if they do/did think about it this way

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

Carot is town and SPF is mafia -> better to send second mafia most of the time, makes sure that town dies

Carot is town and SPF is town -> better to send third town, makes sure that town dies


There’s obviously some amount of uncertainty in this cause it’s not immediately clear how many mafia will think about it this way, and there’s some room for playing suboptimally on purpose even if they do/did think about it this way

First one a bit less weight with Hally being the person sent by mafia given she’s maybe the least likely in this game to even consider a hero shot

Still something I’m considering tho

[Hally]

oh, missed this quote

@Sloonei what is my alignment?

Town.

Why can I be mafia?

Why am I town?

You can be mafia, because I would describe your game as "continually doing just little enough that I cannot form a confident read on you". It's not a problem I typically encounter with Sloonei. I don't always get to a solid town read quickly, but I usually do. I also think this is the first time you've shared a stance on me, and we're already a full cycle into the game. So these things are odd, Sloober.

I liked your initial defense of me, but was wary because mafia Jay would need to do those things to not draw my attention. I didn't have a firm read to offer on Day 1 and wanted to see how things developed. This push on me feels to be coming from a place of real concern.

I signed up for this game so that I could get back into playing mafia without it consuming my life. I don't intend to do all of the things I usually do, and I'm not up for that anyway. But I will hopefully be doing things that make it obvious I am town soon enough.

Thunal and Alison are names I would like to dig into today, and I've already seen others float them. That is encouraging.

can you talk more about your tr on jay? how confident would you say you are in it? and is it just because you think his push on you is genuine? or is there more to it?

[Thunal33]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

Carot is town and SPF is mafia -> better to send second mafia most of the time, makes sure that town dies

Carot is town and SPF is town -> better to send third town, makes sure that town dies


There’s obviously some amount of uncertainty in this cause it’s not immediately clear how many mafia will think about it this way, and there’s some room for playing suboptimally on purpose even if they do/did think about it this way

From a standpoint of looking at who gets killed I don't think it mattered if mafia sent a townie or one of their own today. Carotte would always be shot. I feel like analyzing who gets sent is a whole bunch of WIFOM and generally useless. When I played this setup before Hally was sent twice but one of the mafia was also sent twice.

[Alison]

I'm caught up.

I'm not going to rewrite my case on Hally and Thun. I'm not really sure how to feel about JJJ constantly going back and forth on Sloonei when he has a reputation for being able to lock in a hard read on Sloonei early - I think that's some evidence pointing towards Sloonei scum intentionally subverting his own scum meta to throw JJJ off the scent, maybe.

Hally/Thun/Sloonei is definitely my POE right now. I said yesterday that I was giving Sloonei space to breathe (as JJJ asked) and it's been a mixed bag. Some of his content is genuinely good, other bits are questionable (his N1 quicktopic behavior, as others have pointed out).

I trust tutuu. I think the stuff about how we shouldn't townread her for her emotion is town-indicative because it smells of feeling slighted or like people are underestimating your scum game because of how fast they townread you. Scum tutuu just accepts the emotion read (which is pretty common in games involving tutuu) and moves on.

I trust nutella. I trust JJJ. I trust SPF.

That's where I'm at right now.

linki: It matters because it affects who the mafia can and can't NK.

[Alison]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

Carot is town and SPF is mafia -> better to send second mafia most of the time, makes sure that town dies

Carot is town and SPF is town -> better to send third town, makes sure that town dies


There’s obviously some amount of uncertainty in this cause it’s not immediately clear how many mafia will think about it this way, and there’s some room for playing suboptimally on purpose even if they do/did think about it this way

I don't know how much thought I'd put into the third Grasslands player if I was mafia but I think my analysis would mostly revolve around who gets the doc heal, not who gets the gun.

[tutuu]

i think regardless of their alignment hally is going to be sent to the grasslands every single night by the mafia. if they did it n1 they are going to do it every night

i wonder if we proactively send hally as the person with lowest votes would do anything. probably nothing. but it would be a nice way to show our defiance. mafia: "this is how its gonna work", town: "yea how about no"

[Alison]

i think regardless of their alignment hally is going to be sent to the grasslands every single night by the mafia. if they did it n1 they are going to do it every night

i wonder if we proactively send hally as the person with lowest votes would do anything. probably nothing. but it would be a nice way to show our defiance. mafia: "this is how its gonna work", town: "yea how about no"

I think the level 1 (no WIFOM) play by mafia is to send whoever they they know they won't be killing (one of their own, a widely suspected player, the village idiot) into the Grasslands. That way the doc heal on them is wasted, and they can analyze night chat to see who is the best nightkill to make. That's what raised my suspicions about the Hally send - if Hally was town, nowhere they're the least likely person to eat an NK.

But the fact that nanook, tutuu and I have all developed wildly different strategies (send by alignment, send the same person every night, send the person you don't want to NK) for mafia here shows that the variety of strategies that could be adopted for picking a person to send to the Grasslands is extremely large, even without factoring in WIFOM. So it's probably not a good idea to jump to conclusions about why someone was sent, which improves my view on Hally slightly.

[Long Con]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

Carot is town and SPF is mafia -> better to send second mafia most of the time, makes sure that town dies

Carot is town and SPF is town -> better to send third town, makes sure that town dies


There’s obviously some amount of uncertainty in this cause it’s not immediately clear how many mafia will think about it this way, and there’s some room for playing suboptimally on purpose even if they do/did think about it this way

On Night 1 though? Wouldn't that out two mafia members immediately?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Caveat that I’m not sure how many scum teams think this way but

It’s almost always better for scum in that situation to send town unless SPF is mafia. So very good chance that Hally and SPF are aligned, and because carot was shot and flipped green, very good chance they’re both town.


Caveat that I’m not sure how many teams think this way, so it’s not like...not 100% locked in. But high likelihood imo.

I don't understand why you think this way so I can't assume that the mafia team does too.

Carot is town and SPF is mafia -> better to send second mafia most of the time, makes sure that town dies

Carot is town and SPF is town -> better to send third town, makes sure that town dies


There’s obviously some amount of uncertainty in this cause it’s not immediately clear how many mafia will think about it this way, and there’s some room for playing suboptimally on purpose even if they do/did think about it this way

On Night 1 though? Wouldn't that out two mafia members immediately?

Explain to me how it would out them

[Long Con]

Maybe I misunderstand. I thought you were saying that, if the group sends a town and a mafia, then the mafia would choose to send another mafia so that they could subvert the democratic process and yeet a town member that was supposed to be safe.