Barry Lyndon - Endgame

[birdwithteeth11]

It doesn't imply that at all. I think you slipped.

Bs Epi. Your angle was that of Zebra and I being teammates. That would mean I at the minimum had some responsibility for the kill.

Not really BS. I think this is what happened:

- You and zebra faked that argument because you knew it would help at least one of you going forward. Especially once it became more likely that zebra would be a sacrificial lamb. I think she was okay with that because you both knew it would draw attention away from yourself.

- I think the missed NKs were a deliberate attempt to try and draw attention onto low posters and non-active players. Looked good at the time, but as you've probably learned from last night, it's much better to try and kill someone. It's the best way to try and cause chaos and confusion.

- Given how gleam flipped and what serge's likely role is, you're hoping to flip this lynch towards someone other than yourself. In particular, myself, LC, Epig, or SVS from the last list I've seen from you.

Most of what I've seen you post today is starting to make me feel like you're trapped and are getting desperate.

Linki: Interesting. What exactly did you read from me that made you no longer suspect me?

[DrWilgy]

Your meta's looking pretty bad right now Wilgy, to be honest.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that from what I know about Wilgy based on my experiences with him in other games, this feels way more like his baddie game than his civ game. I'm just being honest.

Just like you were so confident with sig?

This comment right here and the following one felt genuine. I.e. not talking to a temmie.

[Scotty]

I dun think Wilgy is back pedaling like he's driving the bus in speed.

Please if you can validate Zebra's lust to get caught when I was the only person who pointed out the suspicion of this post, do let me know.

You were the only one to catch that. This sentence right here is straight WIFOM because the only way we can truly validate it is lynching you.

voting Wilgy

[DrWilgy]

/sigh that was the point Scotty.

If the argument was "Zebra was trying to get lynched" that would imply that she made her posts obviously scummy. I being the only player to cry scum on that post, would that make it a obviously scummy post? if a post was obviously scummy, other's would've noticed it and called it out.

[birdwithteeth11]

/sigh that was the point Scotty.

If the argument was "Zebra was trying to get lynched" that would imply that she made her posts obviously scummy. I being the only player to cry scum on that post, would that make it a obviously scummy post? if a post was obviously scummy, other's would've noticed it and called it out.

Others did notice it and called it out as well. You act like you were a working as a one-man army here.

[DrWilgy]

/sigh that was the point Scotty.

If the argument was "Zebra was trying to get lynched" that would imply that she made her posts obviously scummy. I being the only player to cry scum on that post, would that make it a obviously scummy post? if a post was obviously scummy, other's would've noticed it and called it out.

Others did notice it and called it out as well. You act like you were a working as a one-man army here.

I'm not a one man army and that's not what my intention was. I looked and quoted all responces to the "purposely" fishy quote that I could find and all I found were suggestions of neutral or no suspicion. The ones I found were what I quoted. If there are more please point them out to me, for I missed them.

[Epignosis]

During Day 3, there was talk about who might miss a kill. For example:

Spoiler: show

I am more inclined to vote for gleam than Scotty. Scotty does not strike me as one to miss a night kill, and from my reading, that's the only way there was no kill.

a2thezebra - Capatin Grogan - Lynched Day 2
agleaminranks - A potential miss
birdwithteeth11 - A potential miss
DFaraday - A potential miss
DrWilgy - I think a potential miss only if done purposefully with the intent to deceive
Long Con - Most likely would not miss a kill
Marmotpictures87- Killed his own teammate in Downton Abbey; a potential miss on purpose with the intent to deceive
Ricochet - Killed Night 1
Scotty - Most likely would not miss a kill
Serge - Was bad in Turf Wars with me, and was not terrible active; got replaced, but I do not recall missing a night action
Sig - Belle - Lynched Day 1
Sorsha - Was bad in Downton Abbey and not terribly active; a potential miss
S~V~S - Most likely would not miss a kill

Potzdorf is therefore someone who feared Ricochet enough to remove him first thing, but not so invested that he or she would submit a second kill. If the other two captains are active and anything like me, they would be frustrated with their lost opportunity.

My vote is likely to go to agleaminranks, birdwithteeth11, DFaraday, or Sorsha.

and

Spoiler: show

Gotta go to work, so I'm voting now.

Voting BWT11 because I think he's very likely to have missed the nightkill.

DrWilgy did not seem to have an issue with this sort of talk. In fact:

Spoiler: show

Hell, I think I'd be willing to vote Gleam for calling my claim baseless.

On terms of a more rational vote. I could see BWT being bad and not submitting a kill. Players that weren't posting though the night include Epi and BWT. Barry and Baddie?

If BWT is bad, I'm pretty sure LC is as well... Maybe that thought will amke me vote there.

LC do please answer my questions when you can.

But when I stop focusing on who might have missed the kill by accident and instead focus on who might have intentionally missed the kill, I am met with this reaction:

It's not a matter of opposite view points existing. It's a matter of "do I believe that opposite viewpoints can healthily survive in a mafia game" and the answer is no. There is a right and a wrong and disagreements need to be absolved by majority. When two even and opposite patterns stagnate there is a reason for that, and that reason is either 1) a player doesn't care enough about said pattern or 2) a player is lying.

A good example of this would be Zeebs and Sig. A opposite and even pattern arose when they both agreed on Gambler's Fallacy, but there was opposition through Zebra. Zebra ended up being caught a liar.

Tl;dr players that have opposite views don't just shake hands and walk away in this game.

In responce to you BWT... It's spooky that both you and Epi who I have in my mind as baddies are calling the NK a set up, and this is on the 3rd of that set Scotty who I also thought was bad.

Hmmm... Epi Sorsha and BWT analyzing the NK. That bothers me as well, NK is a tool for the baddies to use, any analysis of the sort would be WIFOM and only favor the baddies at this point in the game.

According to DrWilgy, we must believe the kill was missed accidentally, because thinking outside of that paradigm "only favors the baddies at this point in the game."

Nah.

[DrWilgy]

Yes?

Over analysis of night kills have caused very tragic results. My clearest memory of this happens to be your death in a realm reborn. Golden was super murdered because of it and all the players over analyzing it.

I believe there is a scale difference in the missing of a kill and who the target is. This would be different if there were kill blocking roles, but I don't believe that there is any way possible for that to be the case.

Missing a kill as BWT put it is probably the worst thing a baddie can do.

[DrWilgy]

Hey epi how about a response to my earlier big response to you.

[Epignosis]

To answer DrWilgy's questions:

Please if you can validate Zebra's lust to get caught when I was the only person who pointed out the suspicion of this post, do let me know. Hey Epi, if this was a baddie trying to get caught. Why didn't you see it, catch it, and call Zebra out on it? (this one's important)

Civilians frequently look bad, and that doesn't mean they are. One cannot know if zebra was intentionally trying to get caught until after the lynch. Knowing the alignment now, I can comb through the thread and determine if I think zebra was trying to get lynched or was trying to avoid getting lynched. It's called a "lynch analysis," which I thought you would like better since it's not a "night kill analysis."

" " - Epi
I'm starting to notice a habit of you leaving vague smileys in place of thoughts, why does this make you ponder?

zebra was under a lot of pressure, but voted you and was the very first voter. There was no intention of holding the vote in case self-preservation was necessary.

"LC raised the possibility at the time. Note zebra's reaction: zebra doesn't contest LC's accusation implied accusation, but rather wants to know why LC thinks what he does. Then zebra states the obvious and waves it away with a dismissive, "Okay."" - Epi

So this one is interesting since you are once again allowing baddie action to rule the course of the game. Analyzing NK's, reading into baddie actions that could have been Zebra trying to bring me down, It could've been LC trying to get me to go down with a teammate of his. There are many possibilities based on these quotes that you drew your assumptions from that you don't consider... But clearly you are no fool, so it's the WIFOM.

You are insistent that mafia inaction rule the course of the game. I am not. I am considering both possibilities. Are you seriously insisting that people trying to consider why someone was killed or why there was no kill at all is a bad thing?

"Then there's the missing night kill that gave the impression that the kill was missed. I think the night kill was missed on purpose to drive the attention away from zebra and Wilgy's contrived exchange." - Epi

That would imply that I gave up the kill for mind games which would be dumb, really dumb. Similarly to how civs never "no lynch" a mafia should never "no kill", but you honestly believe that I did that even though I still was receiving heat both before and afterwards. Also if avoiding attention was my play style this game would I be posting as much as I am? again with the claim of aggro play, but I don't see how you can call my play this game as avoiding attention.

It doesn't imply that at all. I think you slipped.

Bs Epi. Your angle was that of Zebra and I being teammates. That would mean I at the minimum had some responsibility for the kill.

Not at all. Only one captain kills. The others cannot submit the action for the killer. You could be a non-killing captain with a deadbeat partner, but your response to me didn't allow for that possibility. You immediately said, "That would imply that I gave up the kill."

I am not even close to through with you.

[Epignosis]

Here's my new list based on recent events
Scotty or LC still stands, LC with a slightly higher chance of being mafia.
Epignosis
SVS

As of rereading through BWT, I no longer suspect him at this time. I need to relook at Sriracha, DF and Marmot. LC case coming shortly.

You no longer suspect birdwithteeth11, even though you suspect me. This is you reason why:

Your meta's looking pretty bad right now Wilgy, to be honest.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that from what I know about Wilgy based on my experiences with him in other games, this feels way more like his baddie game than his civ game. I'm just being honest.

Just like you were so confident with sig?

This comment right here and the following one felt genuine. I.e. not talking to a temmie.

That was May 08, 2016 11:23 am

Never mind that bwt had a much longer exchange with zebra on that topic that you didn't comment on. That's not why I care. This is:

Goddammnit sig, why are you so scummy as town and so innocent as scum?

Sig did you just vote me for promoting discussion?

I'm going with Wilgy no on topic posts, and very few off topic posts, his one truly on topic post, is bad imo.

linki: I see Epi ninjad in and voted for MP.

What classifies a post as being bad? Gambler's fallacy has been brought up this game, so does that make my subject point irrelevant? I get the feeling that you are trying to strong arm me here Sig.

I think he is, he is. And it's a sorry excuse for a permanent vote.

sig

I finally know your meta sig, I've played enough games with you. You're bad and you're going down.

Fail.

That was May 05, 2016 9:55 pm.

Yet you think bwt is good because he made the same point I did three days later.

[S~V~S]

During Day 3, there was talk about who might miss a kill. For example:

Spoiler: show

I am more inclined to vote for gleam than Scotty. Scotty does not strike me as one to miss a night kill, and from my reading, that's the only way there was no kill.

a2thezebra - Capatin Grogan - Lynched Day 2
agleaminranks - A potential miss
birdwithteeth11 - A potential miss
DFaraday - A potential miss
DrWilgy - I think a potential miss only if done purposefully with the intent to deceive
Long Con - Most likely would not miss a kill
Marmotpictures87- Killed his own teammate in Downton Abbey; a potential miss on purpose with the intent to deceive
Ricochet - Killed Night 1
Scotty - Most likely would not miss a kill
Serge - Was bad in Turf Wars with me, and was not terrible active; got replaced, but I do not recall missing a night action
Sig - Belle - Lynched Day 1
Sorsha - Was bad in Downton Abbey and not terribly active; a potential miss
S~V~S - Most likely would not miss a kill

Potzdorf is therefore someone who feared Ricochet enough to remove him first thing, but not so invested that he or she would submit a second kill. If the other two captains are active and anything like me, they would be frustrated with their lost opportunity.

My vote is likely to go to agleaminranks, birdwithteeth11, DFaraday, or Sorsha.

and

Spoiler: show

Gotta go to work, so I'm voting now.

Voting BWT11 because I think he's very likely to have missed the nightkill.

DrWilgy did not seem to have an issue with this sort of talk. In fact:

Spoiler: show

Hell, I think I'd be willing to vote Gleam for calling my claim baseless.

On terms of a more rational vote. I could see BWT being bad and not submitting a kill. Players that weren't posting though the night include Epi and BWT. Barry and Baddie?

If BWT is bad, I'm pretty sure LC is as well... Maybe that thought will amke me vote there.

LC do please answer my questions when you can.

But when I stop focusing on who might have missed the kill by accident and instead focus on who might have intentionally missed the kill, I am met with this reaction:

It's not a matter of opposite view points existing. It's a matter of "do I believe that opposite viewpoints can healthily survive in a mafia game" and the answer is no. There is a right and a wrong and disagreements need to be absolved by majority. When two even and opposite patterns stagnate there is a reason for that, and that reason is either 1) a player doesn't care enough about said pattern or 2) a player is lying.

A good example of this would be Zeebs and Sig. A opposite and even pattern arose when they both agreed on Gambler's Fallacy, but there was opposition through Zebra. Zebra ended up being caught a liar.

Tl;dr players that have opposite views don't just shake hands and walk away in this game.

In responce to you BWT... It's spooky that both you and Epi who I have in my mind as baddies are calling the NK a set up, and this is on the 3rd of that set Scotty who I also thought was bad.

Hmmm... Epi Sorsha and BWT analyzing the NK. That bothers me as well, NK is a tool for the baddies to use, any analysis of the sort would be WIFOM and only favor the baddies at this point in the game.

According to DrWilgy, we must believe the kill was missed accidentally, because thinking outside of that paradigm "only favors the baddies at this point in the game."

Nah.

This is a really good point. We just saw a game where the baddies kiiled one of their own to set up WIFOM, intentionally dropping a kill to set up the inactives one after the other like dominoes is a very plausible scenario.

[Epignosis]

I think I've caught a fish. I'm voting DrWilgy.

[Long Con]

Also, @LC what would you classify as original proponents?

Um.. Scotty and I are the original proponents. This isn't a classification issue, this is who we were discussing. Not up for debate or opinion.

Over analysis of night kills have caused very tragic results. My clearest memory of this happens to be your death in a realm reborn. Golden was super murdered because of it and all the players over analyzing it.

Epi, it seems as though this is the place to which you have pushed Wilgy, can you respond to this? I don't remember the circumstances of your death and Golden's "super-murder" offhand, so I don't get the context Wilgy is framing this POV within. "Over analysis of night kills have caused very tragic results." is a really vague, sweeping comment.

I believe there is a scale difference in the missing of a kill and who the target is.

I don't quite get what you're saying here.

This would be different if there were kill blocking roles, but I don't believe that there is any way possible for that to be the case.

That is the same conclusion we all already made, no one is contesting that. Why even say it??

Missing a kill as BWT put it is probably the worst thing a baddie can do.

What BWT said was "I think the missed NKs were a deliberate attempt to try and draw attention onto low posters and non-active players. Looked good at the time, but as you've probably learned from last night, it's much better to try and kill someone. It's the best way to try and cause chaos and confusion."

Hindsight is, as it always is, 20/20... why are you bringing BWT's comment into this? I don't understand some of what you're saying, Wilgy, and when I understand what, I don't get why.

[birdwithteeth11]

I have to leave for work and have some other things I have to take care of before I go. Wilgy really sounds like a caught baddie to me at this point so that is where my vote for today is going.

[DrWilgy]

Y'all have a real bad habit of voting for me when I'm not here.

Answering and respondoodlin now.

[DrWilgy]

To answer DrWilgy's questions:

Please if you can validate Zebra's lust to get caught when I was the only person who pointed out the suspicion of this post, do let me know. Hey Epi, if this was a baddie trying to get caught. Why didn't you see it, catch it, and call Zebra out on it? (this one's important)

Civilians frequently look bad, and that doesn't mean they are. One cannot know if zebra was intentionally trying to get caught until after the lynch. Knowing the alignment now, I can comb through the thread and determine if I think zebra was trying to get lynched or was trying to avoid getting lynched. It's called a "lynch analysis," which I thought you would like better since it's not a "night kill analysis." -> 1

" " - Epi
I'm starting to notice a habit of you leaving vague smileys in place of thoughts, why does this make you ponder?

zebra was under a lot of pressure, but voted you and was the very first voter. There was no intention of holding the vote in case self-preservation was necessary. -> 2

"LC raised the possibility at the time. Note zebra's reaction: zebra doesn't contest LC's accusation implied accusation, but rather wants to know why LC thinks what he does. Then zebra states the obvious and waves it away with a dismissive, "Okay."" - Epi

So this one is interesting since you are once again allowing baddie action to rule the course of the game. Analyzing NK's, reading into baddie actions that could have been Zebra trying to bring me down, It could've been LC trying to get me to go down with a teammate of his. There are many possibilities based on these quotes that you drew your assumptions from that you don't consider... But clearly you are no fool, so it's the WIFOM.

You are insistent that mafia inaction rule the course of the game. I am not. I am considering both possibilities. Are you seriously insisting that people trying to consider why someone was killed or why there was no kill at all is a bad thing?
-> 3

"Then there's the missing night kill that gave the impression that the kill was missed. I think the night kill was missed on purpose to drive the attention away from zebra and Wilgy's contrived exchange." - Epi

That would imply that I gave up the kill for mind games which would be dumb, really dumb. Similarly to how civs never "no lynch" a mafia should never "no kill", but you honestly believe that I did that even though I still was receiving heat both before and afterwards. Also if avoiding attention was my play style this game would I be posting as much as I am? again with the claim of aggro play, but I don't see how you can call my play this game as avoiding attention.

It doesn't imply that at all. I think you slipped.

Bs Epi. Your angle was that of Zebra and I being teammates. That would mean I at the minimum had some responsibility for the kill.

Not at all. Only one captain kills. The others cannot submit the action for the killer. You could be a non-killing captain with a deadbeat partner, but your response to me didn't allow for that possibility. You immediately said, "That would imply that I gave up the kill."
-> 4

I am not even close to through with you.

1. So, this doesn't make sense from a teammate perspective. If I'm a teammate and I know Zebra is bad, why do I need her to fabricate things that make her worth a lynch? Unless you don't think I'm competent enough to bus a teammate who lead a bs wagon on a civ. If Zebra was trying to get caught with that line of hers, did it work? If it didn't wouldn't you consider the possibility of it not being fabricated to be slightly greater at the least?

2. That just seems to match Zebra's MO. I don't know if I've played a game with her where she actually hesitated to drop a vote.

3. I thought about this overnight. It still feels bad, but it doesn't necessarily make the theorist mafia. Mafia kill someone -> someone theorizes why -> theory leads to credit or discredit for someone else, but the mafia who placed the kill are going to use this to their advantage yes? that's why speculation and distrust of night kill judgement seem natural to me and why I see them as bad. I.E. I could claim that ballsy mafia just wanted to credit Scotty, through "Scotty would never do that!"

I guess the main problem with it is that the WIFOM is always poisonous.

4. So, putting myself in the shoes of Zebra's teammate, the angle where I have a responsibility to my team, it's a slip if I say I? when I'm actively forcing the angle of a responsible teammate? That's not a slip, that's me looking at your angle as best as I can and responding to it from the teammate angle. If it makes you feel better, when I tried to look from that angle I didn't specifically think of what captain I was.

/sigh that was the point Scotty.

If the argument was "Zebra was trying to get lynched" that would imply that she made her posts obviously scummy. I being the only player to cry scum on that post, would that make it a obviously scummy post? if a post was obviously scummy, other's would've noticed it and called it out.

Others did notice it and called it out as well. You act like you were a working as a one-man army here.

I'm not a one man army and that's not what my intention was. I looked and quoted all responces to the "purposely" fishy quote that I could find and all I found were suggestions of neutral or no suspicion. The ones I found were what I quoted. If there are more please point them out to me, for I missed them.

I'm waiting for a response BWT. It's actually pretty shady that you'd vote me while not actually looking at this and replying.

Here's my new list based on recent events
Scotty or LC still stands, LC with a slightly higher chance of being mafia.
Epignosis
SVS

As of rereading through BWT, I no longer suspect him at this time. I need to relook at Sriracha, DF and Marmot. LC case coming shortly.

You no longer suspect birdwithteeth11, even though you suspect me. This is you reason why:

Your meta's looking pretty bad right now Wilgy, to be honest.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that from what I know about Wilgy based on my experiences with him in other games, this feels way more like his baddie game than his civ game. I'm just being honest.

Just like you were so confident with sig?

This comment right here and the following one felt genuine. I.e. not talking to a temmie.

That was May 08, 2016 11:23 am

Never mind that bwt had a much longer exchange with zebra on that topic that you didn't comment on. That's not why I care. This is:

Goddammnit sig, why are you so scummy as town and so innocent as scum?

Sig did you just vote me for promoting discussion?

I'm going with Wilgy no on topic posts, and very few off topic posts, his one truly on topic post, is bad imo.

linki: I see Epi ninjad in and voted for MP.

What classifies a post as being bad? Gambler's fallacy has been brought up this game, so does that make my subject point irrelevant? I get the feeling that you are trying to strong arm me here Sig.

I think he is, he is. And it's a sorry excuse for a permanent vote.

sig

I finally know your meta sig, I've played enough games with you. You're bad and you're going down.

Fail.

That was May 05, 2016 9:55 pm.

Yet you think bwt is good because he made the same point I did three days later.

Yes actually, and if you read what I had stated, I also noted that the comments afterwards by bwt make me feel good as well. I think it's rather easy to go "ha you blew it" to a teammate and nothing else, which is what you did. BWT made several comments to Zebra through several posts one after another. I don't think that a baddie would format a response to a teammate like that due to them needing to be more meticulous and careful with their replies.

Also, @LC what would you classify as original proponents?

Um.. Scotty and I are the original proponents. This isn't a classification issue, this is who we were discussing. Not up for debate or opinion. -> 1

Over analysis of night kills have caused very tragic results. My clearest memory of this happens to be your death in a realm reborn. Golden was super murdered because of it and all the players over analyzing it.

Epi, it seems as though this is the place to which you have pushed Wilgy, can you respond to this? I don't remember the circumstances of your death and Golden's "super-murder" offhand, so I don't get the context Wilgy is framing this POV within. "Over analysis of night kills have caused very tragic results." is a really vague, sweeping comment. -> 2

I believe there is a scale difference in the missing of a kill and who the target is.

I don't quite get what you're saying here. -> 3

This would be different if there were kill blocking roles, but I don't believe that there is any way possible for that to be the case.

That is the same conclusion we all already made, no one is contesting that. Why even say it?? -> 4

Missing a kill as BWT put it is probably the worst thing a baddie can do.

What BWT said was "I think the missed NKs were a deliberate attempt to try and draw attention onto low posters and non-active players. Looked good at the time, but as you've probably learned from last night, it's much better to try and kill someone. It's the best way to try and cause chaos and confusion."

Hindsight is, as it always is, 20/20... why are you bringing BWT's comment into this? I don't understand some of what you're saying, Wilgy, and when I understand what, I don't get why. -> 5

1. Sorry I worded that funny, I should've stated what pattern are you referring to? And you are correct that the pattern changed. I need to examine why, and evaluate how I feel about it, at this point I'm leaning that you are bad, and Scotty is good.

2. Tragic results was vague, describing it as "easily to manipulate by baddies" would've been better. Also I'm referring to the event in which Epi was killed, and Golden was super framed for it, then super murdered for it.

3. I feel that examining causes of a missed nk, is different from examining who was NK'd. The severity of missing a nk seems too great to not examine, along with not very easy to manipulate. I would suppose It could set up for a frame, but that would also mean the "to be framed player, or players" have to not show up, and that is completely out of baddie control. Examining who was NK'd leads to WIFOM and WIFOM leads to tears.

4. To apply that fact to and credit the theory of the kill was missed rather than the kill wasn't submitted. I couldn't recall if the relation was made on that premise. I know I at least didn't say anything about that.

5. No, I was referring to this quote here that I agree with,

Also, I think a baddie not sending in a NK under any circumstances is one of the worst possible actions a baddie could take. To me, it's the baddie equivalent of what a lynch is for the civvies: the most powerful tool at one's disposal.

Did I miss anythin?

[Marmot]

Who should I start a counter-wagon on?

[DrWilgy]

Whoever you find the scummiest that has already placed thier vote would be preferable for my survival.

Marmot what are your thoughts on SVS?

Found anythin fun in your catch up?

[Marmot]

Whoever you find the scummiest that has already placed thier vote would be preferable for my survival.

Marmot what are your thoughts on SVS?

Found anythin fun in your catch up?

With regard to SVS, would she vote for a teammate in a lynch? I notice she voted for zeebs the day she was lynched.

I skimmed your back-and-forth with Epignosis. :P I didn't really feel like reading it, but it does remind that you and zebra went at it on Day 1. It also makes me think that you both are not bad. If you are a Captain, I don't think you would attempt to hardcore bus a second teammate, not unless you were convinced that neither of you wouldn't be lynched. But with the way you two have dominated the discussion, that's not likely at this moment.

[Sorsha]

Looks like you've got yourself into quite the pickle DrWilgy.

[DrWilgy]

I figured I'd do an in depth Zebra look before I potentially die,

First off to set Zebra's tone for her baddie game,

Zebra was first that means she is mafia and excited to play lets lynch her. :P

Can't argue with that.

a2thezebra

Didn't you see Epi earlier? Fake votes are in.

Irrelevant Epi post.

I get BWT being a common Day 1 lynch target and all but what about Sorsha?

Chimes in when BWT and Sorsha are brought to subject.

Betting with the odds eh? I can dig it. Not my style though, I rarely leave out any options for a Day 1 lynch besides myself.

Declines leaving BWT and Sriracha out of lynch possibility. Did she want to leave these civs as potential lynch candidates or was she looking to just gain civ credit?

LC, unless I'm mistaken, just indirectly admitted that his reasoning for not voting Sorsha today isn't solid.

-Hmm... Makes me look at LC slightly better. I'm reading these interactions as Sriracha and Zeebs aren't teammates.

Goddammnit sig, why are you so scummy as town and so innocent as scum?

Sig did you just vote me for promoting discussion?

I'm going with Wilgy no on topic posts, and very few off topic posts, his one truly on topic post, is bad imo.

linki: I see Epi ninjad in and voted for MP.

What classifies a post as being bad? Gambler's fallacy has been brought up this game, so does that make my subject point irrelevant? I get the feeling that you are trying to strong arm me here Sig.

I think he is, he is. And it's a sorry excuse for a permanent vote.

sig

I finally know your meta sig, I've played enough games with you. You're bad and you're going down.

Fail.

I didn't actually mean the latter, that was just to pressure him to a reaction. I base my reads off of reactions to pressure. You should know this by now.

Hmm... Quite the reaction to Epi. I'm unsure how to read this really. I need to look back later.

I could get behind a Wilgy or Serge lynch.

Hmm... Zebra hasn't gone after teammates so far. Serge being civ, Sig being civ, and you'll see I'm civ soon enough. Did Zebra avoid casting doubt on all her teammates?

Your meta's looking pretty bad right now Wilgy, to be honest.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that from what I know about Wilgy based on my experiences with him in other games, this feels way more like his baddie game than his civ game. I'm just being honest.

Just like you felt confident sig was bad based on knowledge of his meta?

Shhhhhh we don't talk about things I'm responsible for.

Playful exchange with Scotty.

Ricochet, I recommend that you reread sigs ISO, and think about what he said.

Linki~ you're a zebra, maybe>?

What should I focus on or try to extract from it?

Dude, you're usually the guy who reads too much into things, not me

Then what are you getting at by asking someone who reads too much into things to read a certain thing and to think about it?

But what motive do you have for asking someone that you feel is an over-thinker to analyze a certain area?

Becasue I am seeing something I thought was obvious? And usually I expect Rico (or you for that matter) to pay more attention to nuance than I?

What motive do you have for trying to turn this into something sinister?

That's what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to figure out what you're getting at (if anything, you could just be trying to look like you're contributing) and if what that is happens to be something sinister than I want to be aware of it. What makes you think I ever pay attention to nuance? I'm all about vibes.

Suspicion on SVS changes into a discussion of style. I don't think SVS and Zebra are teammates.

Don't sweat it G, it's not like I was going to vote to lynch you for lurking or anything...

Playful comment towards MovingMarsh.

Your meta's looking pretty bad right now Wilgy, to be honest.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that from what I know about Wilgy based on my experiences with him in other games, this feels way more like his baddie game than his civ game. I'm just being honest.

Just like you were so confident with sig?

Since I was wrong once does that mean I should just stop trying to read people?

But what motive do you have for asking someone that you feel is an over-thinker to analyze a certain area?

I'd rather have players that over-analyze and over-think. I think it's easier to catch baddie slips that way.

I agree, and that's not the point. My point was that it was odd for SVS to ask someone that she feels is an over-thinker to overthink a particular area.

BWT exchange. Reading this as a teammate conversation is harder than non teammate. Going to consider it the latter.

You both look bad right now to me.

Why is that?

This whole back-and-forth has reached the level of contrived.

So you're saying we're teammates? Okay.

That's the only possible meaning of "you both look bad", isn't it?

It's time to remove the tinfoil.

That is a fake ass vote if I've ever seen one.

Final exchange with LC before death. I can easily read this as a teammate conversation. Perhaps because I know my own alignment it's easier, but I think the purpose of this conversation was to take me down with Zebra, also set up some sick distance/bussing for LC. "That is a fake ass vote" I think is the real icing on the cake. Zebra absolutely tell the truth about a teammates bus vote.

This being a bus would make sense considering Zebra posted this previously,

Great, a self-preservation vote makes me a likely lynch. I try not to play darts on Day 2, I usually get that overwith on Day 1. I still don't see why DrWilgy isn't the obvious lynch.

I think Zebra had given up on her life when she posted this. After this LC comes in and starts posting about how we are both Suspect.

So here's suspicion based on this,
Playful - Scotty, MovingMarsh
Seems Bussy Fishy - Long Con

From this I would like to vote LC, but must now hold my vote for the chance of preservation.

linki - Hi Sriracha!

[DFaraday]

Wilgy is sounding more like a desperate baddie than sincere civvie to me. I do admit that skipping a night kill sounds like an awful plan to me, but I've known baddies to do far less sensible things than that, and Epi's proposed sequence of events makes sense.

*votes Wilgy*

[DrWilgy]

if we vote someone who hasn't voted for me, and they are bad, and 1 teammate stack on me... we can't beat out their numbers... again unless both their teammates have already voted for me. (not likely)

if we vote for someone who has voted for me, and they are bad... both teammates would need to stack on me to kill me. (plausible)

conclusion... A civvy will most likely die tonight

Linki-It was DF all along!

[DrWilgy]

Well... I tried my hardest. Time to go back to being a slacking memeslinger.
*begins to lick himself*

The only situation where I live and we get a baddie is we all vote on someone who voted for me AND they don't have teammates that stack on me. I propose DF. I don't think Zebra interacted with you at all did she?

[Marmot]

Well... I tried my hardest. Time to go back to being a slacking memeslinger.
*begins to lick himself*

The only situation where I live and we get a baddie is we all vote on someone who voted for me AND they don't have teammates that stack on me. I propose DF. I don't think Zebra interacted with you at all did she?

Would a baddie interact with every single teammate, even a soft-spoken DF?

[DrWilgy]

I agree that it's most likely that the kill was not sent, which would make agleaminranks look suspect.

I also think it's pretty likely that the Zebra voters are not bad. I doubt the baddies would bus a teammate this early in the game and with the ratio as it was.

Interesting... This is the only relevent comment regarding Zebra, and it would support the LC bus theory if DF flips bad...

I could see this. Maybe the team is DF, LC, Zebra... and one other?

Shit, that would mean LC votes for me and I die anyways. Oh well. Remaining voters, do you wanna see what happens when DF is put in the hotseat? I think even if I go down here we can get very useful information by stacking votes here.

I'll drop the 1st one seeing as the chances for saving myself are damn near 0.

Linki- I don't think so. But comparing the players Zebra interacted with vs not, DF is the only living player that was missed.

[DrWilgy]

DFaraday, It's literally the only chance I have to catch a baddie here.

[Marmot]

Nevermoind DrWilgy, I misread your statement about DF.

Linki: I don't remember if I interacted with zebra, but I won't let you incriminate me with that. :P

[DrWilgy]

Zebra interacted with your predecessor, so you get by today Marmot friend!

[Marmot]

I don't follow Dr... Help

Why did you suddenly convince yourself to vote for the DF?

[Marmot]

Zebra interacted with your predecessor, so you get by today Marmot friend!

Really? Didn't my sockfaceancestordude only have one post?

[DrWilgy]

Yes and Zebra happened to comment on MP right afterwards...

Marmot friend didn't read my analysis...

;__;

[DrWilgy]

Regarding voting DF, it's odd that put of the now living players, DF was the only on Zeebs didn't mention. Also... If I vote someone who didn't vote for me my chance of survival is 0%

[Marmot]

Yes and Zebra happened to comment on MP right afterwards...

Marmot friend didn't read my analysis...

;__;

Nope, I skimmed it... :'''(

Is there any hope for you drfriend?

Linki, you speak as if you know what the captains would do with their vote.

[DrWilgy]

4 on me meant that there were only 5 votes left to go around. If I voted anywhere that wasn't on a me voter, they would've preserve voted and killed me anyways.

If captains bus another teammate here then yay! If DF is civ and they kill him, I was wrong, and I'll reevaluate, plus it would make LC look better along with being able to better read Zeebs interactions with players.

If captains decide to murk me, and DF flips bad, you'll know who to spank.

[DrWilgy]

Regardless, read all votes past mine as "chose to kill Wilgy or Not" I think that mindset will help in the upcoming days and will drive the game a positive way.

[Marmot]

Well at this point, I see no reason to vote for anyone but DrWilgy or DFaraday.

Even if the 4 players left including myself vote a 3rd party, a tie would be created. But the mafia likely robbed the vote of a civilian, meaning that the tie would probably be broken in their favor.

Between DrWilgy and Epignosis, I would've rather lynched Epignosis.

Between DrWilgy and DFaraday, this DFaraday's only interaction. Yet, DrWilgy did the legwork in getting her lynched.

I can't bring myself to vote for DrWilgy either, so DFaraday.

[Sorsha]

I don't think DrWilgy is bad. I'll probably vote for DF to give Wilgy a shot at survival today.

[DrWilgy]

I have this constant gut feeling that Epi is bad, but I feel that in a DF vs Epi environment, Epi would be better to keep alive due to contributions.

The thing that's odd about Epi is his joke vote for Sriracha day 3, but then shift to me day 4. I feel like an Epi that truely thinks I'm bad wouldn't have wasted day 3.

MM, why would've you preferred Epi vs Wilgy over DF vs Wilgy? Didn't you just say you thought we were both civ?

[Epignosis]

I don't think DrWilgy is bad. I'll probably vote for DF to give Wilgy a shot at survival today.

No reasoning behind this, I see. Just a "I don't think" and an "I'll probably."

[Sorsha]

I don't think DrWilgy is bad. I'll probably vote for DF to give Wilgy a shot at survival today.

No reasoning behind this, I see. Just a "I don't think" and an "I'll probably."

No point behind this. Just putting quotes around words.

[DrWilgy]

I wonder if SVS will make it in time to vote. Her missing votes is uncharacteristic of her.

Epi what are your thoughts on her?

[Epignosis]

I don't think DrWilgy is bad. I'll probably vote for DF to give Wilgy a shot at survival today.

No reasoning behind this, I see. Just a "I don't think" and an "I'll probably."

No point behind this. Just putting quotes around words.

I spent a goodish amount of my afternoon yesterday ripping Wilgy a new one, and this is all you have to say.

[Marmot]

I have this constant gut feeling that Epi is bad, but I feel that in a DF vs Epi environment, Epi would be better to keep alive due to contributions.

The thing that's odd about Epi is his joke vote for Sriracha day 3, but then shift to me day 4. I feel like an Epi that truely thinks I'm bad wouldn't have wasted day 3.

MM, why would've you preferred Epi vs Wilgy over DF vs Wilgy? Didn't you just say you thought we were both civ?

I would've prefered not being limited to two players to make a meaningful vote. I didn't say I prefer Epi vs you over DF vs you.

I guess I should clarify what I meant in this post. I said I don't think you are both bad, as in I don't think you are both Captains together. But one or the other could be mafia, and if one of the two of you are a Captain, I think it's most likely Epignosis.

I don't see what the two loudest players in the thread, being on the same mafia team, have to gain by coming into the thread and trying to get each other lynched.

[DrWilgy]

Oh, you said "both" in that post. My b for missing key words.

[DrWilgy]

Oh well. Rip me. Back to Slacker Wilgy from now on.

Baddies are LC, DF, Epi.

[Marmot]

I don't think DrWilgy is bad. I'll probably vote for DF to give Wilgy a shot at survival today.

No reasoning behind this, I see. Just a "I don't think" and an "I'll probably."

No point behind this. Just putting quotes around words.

I spent a goodish amount of my afternoon yesterday ripping Wilgy a new one, and this is all you have to say.

Good for you! Look at all those voters who followed you.

[Sorsha]

I don't think DrWilgy is bad. I'll probably vote for DF to give Wilgy a shot at survival today.

No reasoning behind this, I see. Just a "I don't think" and an "I'll probably."

No point behind this. Just putting quotes around words.

I spent a goodish amount of my afternoon yesterday ripping Wilgy a new one, and this is all you have to say.

Well I'm not going to go point by point through it and explain why I think you're wrong. I don't think wilgy is bad for the same reason I'm trusting svs this game. I don't think they bussed zebra.

[DrWilgy]

If not that combo... Its Marmot, Scotty and 1 unknown.