Mountain Mafia [END]

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Who will be flattened?

Poll ended at Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:55 am

Dragon D. Luffy
0
No votes
dunya
0
No votes
Kylemii
0
No votes
Long Con
0
No votes
nijuukyugou
6
38%
nutella
0
No votes
Quin
2
13%
speedchuck
0
No votes
Marmot (Hosts/Nons/Deads)
8
50%
 
Total votes: 16
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Re: Mountain Mafia [DAY 4]

#6241

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

Sloonei wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:21 pm I don't want this to sound critical of Marmot in any way becauase it's not. Just an observation I made this game and a note about personal preference. The reason I felt confident Malakim was town was actually this post:
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Marmot wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:06 am
malakim2099 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:58 am
Sloonei wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:05 am
malakim2099 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.
All night kills are automatically janitored.
Oh! Well, that is interesting. Wasn't that way in either Mass Effect or SF, which is why I was surprised. Hmmm.
Yes, many Syndicate games in the past have done this: all nightkills being janitored.

I may reconsider that mechanic in future games, but will continue employing it here.
It wasn't just that he was confused about the nightkill mechanics, but also that he got a response from the host in the thread. It suggested to me that malakim's ignorance of the nightkill mechanics was genuine and that he had no hand in carrying them out, or else Marmot wouldn't have been compelled to respond here. It's a tiny thing, but any host interaction has the potential to reveal information. This one gave me a hint about a player's role that I should not have had.
I maintain ignorance of nk mechanics to be not alignment indicative. Scum didn't know anything about the nk the town didn't.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6242

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

Sloonei wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:40 am but also FOR FUCK'S SAKE GUYS, I STOPPED THE DAY 2 LYNCH!
My reasons for suspecting you were legit and I was tinfoiling in a bad way for awhile but by EOD I was reminded of exactly this. I knew I didn't stop the lynch so the chance of you being bad was super low.

Decided not to voice this cause nobody else was on you, there was a decent chance I'd be lynched and revealed to not have stopped the lynch and....townie distancing? I'm not sure that works at all. I remember getting Wilgy killed by the opposing mafia in ME. Didn't want to do that.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6243

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:17 am Yeah by that point we were throwing hail mary passes. It was evident we had very few routes to victory after about the third failed kill.
You and your not really teammates going after Wilgy had me fooled into basically ignoring him. :doh:
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6244

Post by Epignosis »

Sloonei wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:08 am
Kylemii wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:33 am i agree day 1's no lynch tie ruling was a safety net we probably didn't need, but the day 2 lynch was a calculated risk taken by the mayor role, i think that one was fair.

I think in general, roles whose only purpose is to be guaranteed to be harder to kill at night should be limited to like... maybe 1 per game, depending on how many other roles can fuck with the kills.
I think what epi's point is is that there were more opportunities for town roles to make a play like the one I did on Day 2 than there perhaps should have been. I faced some pressure on Day 2 and had no reason to worry about the consequences, then I was relatively unquestioned as town for the rest of the game. Essentially the same thing happened with nutella on Day 1.
Also, consider that the more time (i.e., Day phases) civilians have to talk, the more the game swings in their favor. Speed games at face value are a slight benefit to mafia because the Day phase lasts just 24 hours. The lack of death prolonged the civilian ability to generate discussion and gave them time to process their thoughts.

Regarding survivals, I believe those should be highly limited, if used at all.

Aconcagua is akin to an automatic doctor protection or lynch stop, which can only serve to clear Aconcagua (mafia have no way to stop a lynch).
Chimborazo could become automatically protected or stop a lynch, which could only serve to clear Chimborazo (mafia have no way to stop a lynch).
Kilimanjaro is an automatic three-shot doctor protection.
Pico Cristóbal Colón can stop lynch, which could only serve to clear Pico Cristóbal Colón (as mafia have no way to stop a lynch).
Blanc is a semi-doctor (stopping a kill by switching targets, as actually happened).
Matterhorn can become immune to kills.

That is a half a dozen ways to prevent a Night kill, and three of those can occur more than once. Even lynching three of these roles early is detrimental to the mafia, since the only mechanical way of surviving a lynch is by not being mafia (assuming the lynch stopper didn't unwittingly save mafia).

Add to this that:

Everest has a double vote.*
Elbrus is a semi-cop.
Pico de Orizaba is vengeful.
Kenya is a semi-vigilante.

And you can see that the deck is truly stacked against mafia.

*I am also puzzled with regard to Everest's +1 vote getting perpetually inherited. This makes the civilian faction +1 for the entire game, doesn't it? Was it ever even possible for a lone remaining mafia to win? And considering that Matterhorn achieved immunity from death, wouldn't Matterhorn eventually inherit the +1 vote?
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6245

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

With no watchers (or much in the way of offensive and investigative powers in the town at all), mafia should have done the standard HCRealms double tap block+kill on the same target. Dunya's power was secret and the scum lost their but that would have killed Epi.

100% chance to stop the vest if necessary vs a 1 in however many townies are left to stop a block or doc.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6246

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

*lost their block
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6247

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

Had a great time but tend to agree with Epi on the setup.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6248

Post by dunya »

I loved Marmot's game, but I do admit there were too many strong Power Roles for Town and made it almost impossible for a scum team to win. It's hard to balance a role madness game, but sometimes you have to give weaker roles or one shot things rather than several shots to everyone (Long Con had 3 powers, Quin had 3 shots, etc), and some roles that can be negative to town to balance the numbers. Also, I found speedchuck's win stipulation a little extreme. I mean, Mesk and malakim got a win from this game (I'm assuming sig didn't and was not simply accidentally written out from the winners post although Jay included him in the PM he sent out) and speedchuck didn't. 3p role is hard, esp one with 0 abilities whatsoever. I would have personally allowed him to win for simply surviving till the end with either faction considering he has no abilities to draw him closer to his win. And speedchuck made a hell of an effort. :beer:

I consider Long Con's bus driving save night 1 legit, but Sloonei to stop any lynch, Quin to be unkillable any 3 nights he chooses, Epi to survive first kill on him lynch or NK (and the ability for Chimborazo to borrow that ability?), and me to become immune to all night kills a few too many indestructible roles and makes it probably frustrating for the scum team. Also, Everest's role to be passed down indefinitely, while it never got down to that, but I also considered that too much in Town's favor. The Day 1 no lynch in the event of a tie was also a bit town-favored. Also, this game had masons. Imagine if DDL and Daisy had found each other.

I'm happy we won, I put a lot of effort into this game :p but I do think the odds were stacked against scum from the get-go so shout out to the scum team for lasting as long as they did tbh.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6249

Post by dunya »

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:43 am With no watchers (or much in the way of offensive and investigative powers in the town at all), mafia should have done the standard HCRealms double tap block+kill on the same target. Dunya's power was secret and the scum lost their but that would have killed Epi.
actually, my power became public as soon as it was activated. But who checks that 1st post every day :p
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6250

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Regardless of balance difficulties, I want to make it clear that the team which played the best Mafia in this game was the team that won. On a perfectly level playing field I think we still lose this game.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6251

Post by Mesk514 »

Thank you for the chance to participate, unfortunately the post volume was way too overwhelming and I was under the impression I would be subbed out as I asked twice to be. I guess that didn't happen! However, I am pleased to see town was still able to get through it. Congrats
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6252

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

dunya wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:15 pm I loved Marmot's game, but I do admit there were too many strong Power Roles for Town and made it almost impossible for a scum team to win. It's hard to balance a role madness game, but sometimes you have to give weaker roles or one shot things rather than several shots to everyone (Long Con had 3 powers, Quin had 3 shots, etc), and some roles that can be negative to town to balance the numbers. Also, I found speedchuck's win stipulation a little extreme. I mean, Mesk and malakim got a win from this game (I'm assuming sig didn't and was not simply accidentally written out from the winners post although Jay included him in the PM he sent out) and speedchuck didn't. 3p role is hard, esp one with 0 abilities whatsoever. I would have personally allowed him to win for simply surviving till the end with either faction considering he has no abilities to draw him closer to his win. And speedchuck made a hell of an effort. :beer:

I consider Long Con's bus driving save night 1 legit, but Sloonei to stop any lynch, Quin to be unkillable any 3 nights he chooses, Epi to survive first kill on him lynch or NK (and the ability for Chimborazo to borrow that ability?), and me to become immune to all night kills a few too many indestructible roles and makes it probably frustrating for the scum team. Also, Everest's role to be passed down indefinitely, while it never got down to that, but I also considered that too much in Town's favor. The Day 1 no lynch in the event of a tie was also a bit town-favored. Also, this game had masons. Imagine if DDL and Daisy had found each other.

I'm happy we won, I put a lot of effort into this game :p but I do think the odds were stacked against scum from the get-go so shout out to the scum team for lasting as long as they did tbh.
I think the problem with the unbusdrive was the sheer number of roles that don't target. It was like a >50% chance to be a roleblock.

Maybe that was intentional. Still. Felt out of place because the exception was the expected result.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6253

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

The other thing was a lot of powers that were highly visible without being highly interesting.

Taking someone's name off the pole might confirm a townie...and that's about it. Same for lynch saves. Arguably the strongest part of a soapbox, too.

Contrast things like clue cop, misdirector that are interesting to use but don't reveal townies.

Also possible to give town and scum a lynch stop or a soapbox and take the confirmedness out.

Or keep the setup from being open so you don't know if the good guys or bad guys stopped the lynch. Or go the Mass Effect route and not be sure which roles are really here. Or the Fire Emblem route and and not be sure which roles have which alignments.

Lots of ways the game could have been modified only slightly to greatly rebalance things.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6254

Post by Sloonei »

Mesk514 wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:10 am Thank you for the chance to participate, unfortunately the post volume was way too overwhelming and I was under the impression I would be subbed out as I asked twice to be. I guess that didn't happen! However, I am pleased to see town was still able to get through it. Congrats
I hope we didn't scare you off with the volume. This game was a bit extreme even by our standards. we're always a little intense, but not usually like this.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6255

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

[mention]Marmot[/mention] your game was super neat, and it has regenerated my lust for travel. I want to see the big mountains. :bounce:
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6256

Post by dunya »

Sweden doesn't have mountains really. a few ski slopes but they're so weak.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6257

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

The highest point in Ohio is 1,550 feet (472 m). It's so pathetic.
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Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6258

Post by dunya »

I think ours is 2100m.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [END]

#6259

Post by Sloonei »

I got to climb to the highest peak in Massachusetts earlier this year. It was neat. Not impressively high (3491 feet/1064 m), but a cool experience. This was my view:
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I've also peaked Mt. washington, the highest point in New England (6148 feet/1917 m), three times now. That's a bigger hike. Mountains are cool.
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