SURVIVOR

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tin man
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SURVIVOR

#1

Post by tin man »

ok so no one probably watches this show anymore but i'm on a mission to rewatch all 32 seasons (i posted elsewhere before i saw that there was a TV forum lmfao) and i just want to ~chronicle~ my thoughts as i go along.

SEASON 1: BORNEO

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the season that started the cultural phenomenon!! i really enjoyed this season, even though honestly i thought it was kind of boring at first, but it REALLY picked up at the end and i can honestly say i was basically invested in everyone in the final...6? (minus sean lol)
richard is an amazing winner that really set the tone for the rest of the franchise.

cast ranking:
sue
richard
colleen
rudy
kelly
jenna
greg
sonja
ramona
stacey
sean
gervase
joel
gretchen
bb
dirk

SEASON 2: THE AUSTRALIAN OUTBACK

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the most iconic survivor season, the most watched survivor season of all time, and i think the most watched show in 2001? overall, i think i liked this cast a lot more than borneo, actually. JERRI is top 10, and there were more people that i really liked than in borneo. however, after jerri gets booted, the series REALLY starts to drag and the final 4 and finale are like... SO BORING haha but overall it is still very good.

cast ranking:
jerri
elisabeth
rodger
kimmi
amber
tina
maralyn
colby
keith
debb
nick
alicia
mitchell
jeff
kel
michael

SEASON RANKING (so far)
1. borneo
2. the australian outback
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Re: SURVIVOR

#2

Post by tin man »

also these edgic charts are so bad. i got them from the official site just for decoration for my long post but theres lots of stuff on it that i dont agree with at all lmao :omg:
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Re: SURVIVOR

#3

Post by Golden »

Hey, edgc charts.

Are you listening to rob c and Josh's evolution of strategy as you go? If not, you absolutely should. It would be an awesome combo.

I'll be following along with this. And I absolutely still watch. And listen to hours of podcast analysis after lol. I think you'll find there are others too... Scotty, at least.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#4

Post by insertnamehere »

reposting from the random thread
insertnamehere wrote:
tin man wrote:currently rewatching every season of survivor. just finished australia so 2 down, 30 more to go lmfao.

current ranking
1 borneo
2 australia
You have no idea how into Survivor I am. BULLETPOINT RANKINGS!

3- Pretty good, nice setting, kind of boring
4- underrated, first instance of real Survivor strategy, Boston Rob's best time playing
5- dark, weird, and less interesting in execution than it is in theory
6- has a really good cast, but some weird controversial confessionals
7- MY FAVORITE SEASON! This one seriously has an awesome cast, and the game plays out amazingly. plus it has my favorite player!
8- verrrrrrry controversial among Survivor fans. This is the darkest, murkiest season of Survivor. Expect everything that can go wrong, to go wrong
9- kind of underrated, pretty good
10- i don't like this one as much as some people do for a pretty big reason that you'll find out if you watch it, but it has some good characters
11- super duper underrated, awesome characters and a kickass setting
12- this one has the craziest, most bizarre cast and the best tribe in Survivor history (character wise)
13- this is the infamous "race twist" season that's actually pretty boring in actuality
14- i need to rewatch this one
15- another one of my favorites. great cast, and pretty much the last cool location in Survivor history
16- a great strategy-heavy season that is a little predictable in a couple of ways
17- one of my favorites just for pure random WTF-ery. This is the game at its least predictable
18- a good solid season with a handful of really strong characters
19- this is where things get a little hairy. this is when we first meet the most controversial player in Survivor history, who comes back multiple times. I don't think very highly of him, and I'd advise you not to believe the hype.
20- this is Survivor making an all "all-star" season work really well, as opposed to whatever the fuck All-Stars was. Also features my favorite player.
21- underrated and very unpredictable
22- this is survivor's dark age. All of these seasons are really boring and shitty. I'd probably advise you to skip most of these.
23- skip if you can
24- skip if you can
25- DON'T SKIP THIS ONE. It's not the best season ever, but it's a really solid one and a return to form
26- skip if you can
27- still need to watch this one. i was honestly kind of burned out on the show at this point
28- A FANTASTIC SEASON! just a really good one with kickass characters and kickass strategy. this is when things start turning around for the series
29- another REALLY GOOD season. this is one of the unpredictable ones with an astoundingly good cast (John Rocker excluded)
30- a kind of ugly season, with bullying, class warfare, and a super obvious winner.
31- probably the best "all-star" season with an awesome cast that seems selected for superfans like me, and some great moments
32- the most recent one, which i'd say was a pretty solid season with some big villains and big heroes all of which do worse than you expect
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Re: SURVIVOR

#5

Post by Scotty »

Survivor is my favorite show. I'm a huge fan- I love it like a hand like mittens.

Curious of your favorite seasons, since you're rewatching them.

I don't know about you, but usually I can predict the winner early on based on editing. But this past season blew my mind. It didn't follow its usual editing algorithm to fart out the winner, so I really liked this last season because of it.

One day bitter juries won't be as prevalent. One day.

If we ever get to it in a few years or whenever, I put in a Survivor Mafia game in the queue so look for that (it's got like 8 games ahead of it :sigh: )
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather;
not screaming like the people in his car
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Re: SURVIVOR

#6

Post by Golden »

I felt like that jury was bitter, but listening to people talking about their votes later...

It seems like Jason and Julia, in particular, were very surprised by how much influence Aubry had on the game and they just hadn't been talking to her or seeing it. They liked her, but they didn't believe she was having an impact on the game - probably because Aubry never trusted them enough to share her plans with them. Whereas the minimal impact Michele was having, it was usually evident at tribal council (like fighting with Tai, voting out Neal etc). I think Aubry's game ultimately suffered from being too far in the shadows.

Bitter juries will happen, but I think they are fairly rare in the end, even today. And I still don't have a problem with, say, the Samoa jury - people shouldn't be rewarded for being VERY bad at the social game. There's an extent to which, if juries always respected the most deceitful and ruthless gameplay, the show would become unwatchable. I think the jury does a pretty good job of keeping the game in check, in the end.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#7

Post by tin man »

omg people responding to this <3

i'm familiar with all the seasons and re: russell hantz he sucks and i hate him and i LOVE natalie white <3
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Re: SURVIVOR

#8

Post by tin man »

insertnamehere wrote:reposting from the random thread
insertnamehere wrote:
tin man wrote:currently rewatching every season of survivor. just finished australia so 2 down, 30 more to go lmfao.

current ranking
1 borneo
2 australia
You have no idea how into Survivor I am. BULLETPOINT RANKINGS!

3- Pretty good, nice setting, kind of boring
4- underrated, first instance of real Survivor strategy, Boston Rob's best time playing
5- dark, weird, and less interesting in execution than it is in theory
6- has a really good cast, but some weird controversial confessionals
7- MY FAVORITE SEASON! This one seriously has an awesome cast, and the game plays out amazingly. plus it has my favorite player!
8- verrrrrrry controversial among Survivor fans. This is the darkest, murkiest season of Survivor. Expect everything that can go wrong, to go wrong
9- kind of underrated, pretty good
10- i don't like this one as much as some people do for a pretty big reason that you'll find out if you watch it, but it has some good characters
11- super duper underrated, awesome characters and a kickass setting
12- this one has the craziest, most bizarre cast and the best tribe in Survivor history (character wise)
13- this is the infamous "race twist" season that's actually pretty boring in actuality
14- i need to rewatch this one
15- another one of my favorites. great cast, and pretty much the last cool location in Survivor history
16- a great strategy-heavy season that is a little predictable in a couple of ways
17- one of my favorites just for pure random WTF-ery. This is the game at its least predictable
18- a good solid season with a handful of really strong characters
19- this is where things get a little hairy. this is when we first meet the most controversial player in Survivor history, who comes back multiple times. I don't think very highly of him, and I'd advise you not to believe the hype.
20- this is Survivor making an all "all-star" season work really well, as opposed to whatever the fuck All-Stars was. Also features my favorite player.
21- underrated and very unpredictable
22- this is survivor's dark age. All of these seasons are really boring and shitty. I'd probably advise you to skip most of these.
23- skip if you can
24- skip if you can
25- DON'T SKIP THIS ONE. It's not the best season ever, but it's a really solid one and a return to form
26- skip if you can
27- still need to watch this one. i was honestly kind of burned out on the show at this point
28- A FANTASTIC SEASON! just a really good one with kickass characters and kickass strategy. this is when things start turning around for the series
29- another REALLY GOOD season. this is one of the unpredictable ones with an astoundingly good cast (John Rocker excluded)
30- a kind of ugly season, with bullying, class warfare, and a super obvious winner.
31- probably the best "all-star" season with an awesome cast that seems selected for superfans like me, and some great moments
32- the most recent one, which i'd say was a pretty solid season with some big villains and big heroes all of which do worse than you expect
wow we have mostly similar opinions!! i'm glad you like nicaragua because i've seen that lots of people hate it but i LOVE It. but it will take a while to get there on my rewatch. i've loved seasons 17, 21, 25, and 29 so hopefully 33 will follow that pattern

(14, 18, 22, 26, and 30 all following the pattern of a boring male cake-walking their way to the end so NOT excited for 34)

also re: 20 and 7 we have the same favorite player :) (unless it's rupert lmfao)

the ONLY real difference we have is 31. i didn't like it post-merge at all. too much strategy talk and it felt like an editing catastrophe to me
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Re: SURVIVOR

#9

Post by tin man »

Scotty wrote:Survivor is my favorite show. I'm a huge fan- I love it like a hand like mittens.

Curious of your favorite seasons, since you're rewatching them.

I don't know about you, but usually I can predict the winner early on based on editing. But this past season blew my mind. It didn't follow its usual editing algorithm to fart out the winner, so I really liked this last season because of it.

One day bitter juries won't be as prevalent. One day.

If we ever get to it in a few years or whenever, I put in a Survivor Mafia game in the queue so look for that (it's got like 8 games ahead of it :sigh: )
ooooh i will definitely check out survivor mafia actually!!! (can my role be kelly shinn or dan lembo?? <3 nicaragua <3)

if i had to do my top 5:
(in no order)
amazon
pearl islands
china
gabon
heroes vs villains

but this is all based off fuzzy memory hence the rewatch!
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Re: SURVIVOR

#10

Post by insertnamehere »

based on what you listed, I think you're gonna love Season 11 and 12, specifically 12 if you haven't seen either of those before. Any Survivor viewer who hasn't been introduced to the charms of Mr. Shane Powers, Mrs. Courtney Marit, and Mr. Judd Daughtery is one that I pity.

The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.

Also, I agree that Second Chances could have been edited better, but I like it just as an all-stars season just as much if not more than Heroes Vs Villains. I'm not one of those people who's completely bored by strategy, and I loved a lot of the characters. Kass <3 Keith <3 Varner <3 Fishbach <3 Jeremy <3 Abi-Maria <3 And, what the hell, Spencer <3 (but only because he lost)

I'm excited for you to get to Seasons 5 and 8. Not because they're really good seasons, because they definitely aren't, but because of how dark, aggressive, and downright bizarre they are.

Those seasons are bad and uncomfortable in a completely different way than the "modern" bad seasons.

Also Marquesas <3
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Re: SURVIVOR

#11

Post by Scotty »

tin man wrote:
Scotty wrote:Survivor is my favorite show. I'm a huge fan- I love it like a hand like mittens.

Curious of your favorite seasons, since you're rewatching them.

I don't know about you, but usually I can predict the winner early on based on editing. But this past season blew my mind. It didn't follow its usual editing algorithm to fart out the winner, so I really liked this last season because of it.

One day bitter juries won't be as prevalent. One day.

If we ever get to it in a few years or whenever, I put in a Survivor Mafia game in the queue so look for that (it's got like 8 games ahead of it :sigh: )
ooooh i will definitely check out survivor mafia actually!!! (can my role be kelly shinn or dan lembo?? <3 nicaragua <3)
I'll make you Shambo. (It's like merging shinn/lembo, eh? :shifty: )
tin man wrote: if i had to do my top 5:
(in no order)
amazon
pearl islands
china
gabon
heroes vs villains

but this is all based off fuzzy memory hence the rewatch!
wow, those are all great choices! My favorite is heroes v villains, followed by pearl islands, and I loved todd's gameplay in China, and his play over jean Robert and James (poor James) makes me love to watch that season.

I gotta love Boston Rob's 4th season. It was flawless. I love watching totally manipulation from one person. Which is probably why I love Russell hantz. He played a KILLER 2/3 of what it took to win, but he had 0 going for him for the other 1/3 (social) so I'm not at all surprised of the outcome with him. Still, watching him manipulate his way through 19 and 20, where no one had seen him play, made truly exciting television.


How bout dat Africa where no one did shit because it was too hot? One world is one that stands out as a shitshow as well
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather;
not screaming like the people in his car
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Re: SURVIVOR

#12

Post by Scotty »

Golden wrote:I felt like that jury was bitter, but listening to people talking about their votes later...

It seems like Jason and Julia, in particular, were very surprised by how much influence Aubry had on the game and they just hadn't been talking to her or seeing it. They liked her, but they didn't believe she was having an impact on the game - probably because Aubry never trusted them enough to share her plans with them. Whereas the minimal impact Michele was having, it was usually evident at tribal council (like fighting with Tai, voting out Neal etc). I think Aubry's game ultimately suffered from being too far in the shadows.

Bitter juries will happen, but I think they are fairly rare in the end, even today. And I still don't have a problem with, say, the Samoa jury - people shouldn't be rewarded for being VERY bad at the social game. There's an extent to which, if juries always respected the most deceitful and ruthless gameplay, the show would become unwatchable. I think the jury does a pretty good job of keeping the game in check, in the end.
Yeah I saw that. I was actually surprised at how level a head Jason and Wilt Chamberland (whatever his name was) had at final tribal.

Golden, do you watch any of the ponderosa videos? A lot of those videos have some bittterrrr juries. I find that more often than you think, people reward the player in the final that didn't upset anyone. So the strategy becomes either a) not backstabbing in the tail end of the game or b) making sure that you bring with you 2 Goats to the final 3 so people would have to vote for someone who actually strategized.

Either scenario has bitter people influencing the jury behind the scenes, because most of these people are outspoken about something or other.

Like they're literally crazy. Egoistic alphas. Even fishbach, in a weird way.
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather;
not screaming like the people in his car
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Re: SURVIVOR

#13

Post by Golden »

@Scotty - yes I do, but what makes someone 'bitter'... is it being blindsided, or is about how they are blindsided? If Cagayan had been Tony vs Kass, they would have respected one players blindsides and not the others. They still would have been upset about both.

Most games are still won by the person who played the best game despite the fact the jury is bitter towards them.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#14

Post by Golden »

insertnamehere wrote:The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.
Agree about Amazon. I've never really gotten the love.

The season I love that other people don't is Cook Islands. Also Caramoan to some extent.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#15

Post by tin man »

Scotty wrote:
tin man wrote:
Scotty wrote:Survivor is my favorite show. I'm a huge fan- I love it like a hand like mittens.

Curious of your favorite seasons, since you're rewatching them.

I don't know about you, but usually I can predict the winner early on based on editing. But this past season blew my mind. It didn't follow its usual editing algorithm to fart out the winner, so I really liked this last season because of it.

One day bitter juries won't be as prevalent. One day.

If we ever get to it in a few years or whenever, I put in a Survivor Mafia game in the queue so look for that (it's got like 8 games ahead of it :sigh: )
ooooh i will definitely check out survivor mafia actually!!! (can my role be kelly shinn or dan lembo?? <3 nicaragua <3)
I'll make you Shambo. (It's like merging shinn/lembo, eh? :shifty: )
tin man wrote: if i had to do my top 5:
(in no order)
amazon
pearl islands
china
gabon
heroes vs villains

but this is all based off fuzzy memory hence the rewatch!
wow, those are all great choices! My favorite is heroes v villains, followed by pearl islands, and I loved todd's gameplay in China, and his play over jean Robert and James (poor James) makes me love to watch that season.

I gotta love Boston Rob's 4th season. It was flawless. I love watching totally manipulation from one person. Which is probably why I love Russell hantz. He played a KILLER 2/3 of what it took to win, but he had 0 going for him for the other 1/3 (social) so I'm not at all surprised of the outcome with him. Still, watching him manipulate his way through 19 and 20, where no one had seen him play, made truly exciting television.


How bout dat Africa where no one did shit because it was too hot? One world is one that stands out as a shitshow as well
i don't think it was as flawless as people said though? i'm pretty sure many people have said that if ashley made it to the end they would have voted for her? i can't remember. it think it was similar to BvW1 where literally the 3 most disliked people made it to the end.
Golden wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.
Agree about Amazon. I've never really gotten the love.

The season I love that other people don't is Cook Islands. Also Caramoan to some extent.
honestly i don't remember much about amazon lol but i just remember LOVING it. i'm super excited to get to the 6/7 area of my rewatch to see if it holds up to my flimsy memory. however, i am not looking forward to all-stars at ALL. it's so dark, and not even dark in an interesting way (which i think south pacific is in the finale, which i think is criminally underrated.

i also think cook islands is polarizing, and it depends what you think of the aitu four i think. i could not STAND them, and it ruined the chances of a parvati/candice in the finals :( and the riggage is just too much

also, i feel like cook islands parvati is super underrated? i feel like if penner doesn't flip, it's an adam/candice/parv f3, which i see parv winning? obviously i am much happier with her micro/hvv appearances but it makes you wonder!!
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Re: SURVIVOR

#16

Post by tin man »

insertnamehere wrote:based on what you listed, I think you're gonna love Season 11 and 12, specifically 12 if you haven't seen either of those before. Any Survivor viewer who hasn't been introduced to the charms of Mr. Shane Powers, Mrs. Courtney Marit, and Mr. Judd Daughtery is one that I pity.

The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.

Also, I agree that Second Chances could have been edited better, but I like it just as an all-stars season just as much if not more than Heroes Vs Villains. I'm not one of those people who's completely bored by strategy, and I loved a lot of the characters. Kass <3 Keith <3 Varner <3 Fishbach <3 Jeremy <3 Abi-Maria <3 And, what the hell, Spencer <3 (but only because he lost)

I'm excited for you to get to Seasons 5 and 8. Not because they're really good seasons, because they definitely aren't, but because of how dark, aggressive, and downright bizarre they are.

Those seasons are bad and uncomfortable in a completely different way than the "modern" bad seasons.

Also Marquesas <3
oh my gosh panama!!! that would for sure be in my top 10, maybe top 5? totally forgot to consider it when making my list! although pagongings are lame it was truly the best-case scenario for this season since casaya is a top 5 all-time tribe and la mina is terrible.
and i ~LOVE~ courtney marit. one of my random top 20 favorites along with lindsey richter.

and Spencer <3 is something i will NOT stand for!! the reason i don't appreciate cagayan as much as most people is solely due to how it becomes the spencer and tony show post-merge, and i HATED spencer in cambodia, considering how his entire storyline that took up SO much airtime (that should have been given to Keith, Kimmi, Abi-Maria (she randomly went invisible for 4 episodes around the merge), Kelly etc) was like...totally false?

WILL SIMS GOT MORE JURY VOTES THAN HIM!
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Re: SURVIVOR

#17

Post by tin man »

ok so i just wanted to quick share my thoughts on
~the survivor: africa premiere~ since i won't be able to marathon as quickly since i started work

1. imagine if this season was in HD wow :o
2. i feel like the one way i could succeed on survivor is if i got in a mall-rat like situation lol.
3. there have been 3 boran returnees and no samburu returnees. wtf :(

episode 1 ranking:
lindsey ImageImage
frank "the american branch. it's called freedom."
silas (SOOOOOOO hot wtf)
clarence
brandon
teresa (ROBBED of cambodia thanks kelley wentworth/monica)
kim p
kelly
kim j
jessie
linda (teresa - linda is all basically interchangeable they were all not really present in the episode)
ethan
carl
lex
diane - what the fuck :(
tom - RACIST. i feel like in all honestly clarence was guilty, but he literally said "if i had a gun, i'd shoot you" and like... ugh.

god knowing the outcome of this season makes me sad considering the premiere :( i hate the boran boys and i love the mall rats <3

great that lex and tom are in my bottom three considering how far they make it, and how they make it far in all stars as well and i'll just hate them more :)
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Re: SURVIVOR

#18

Post by Scotty »

Golden wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.
Agree about Amazon. I've never really gotten the love.

The season I love that other people don't is Cook Islands. Also Caramoan to some extent.
Amazon was epic because of that giant trek through the jungle to their camp. Literally wading through poisonous snakes and crocs and any other dangerous animals in the jungle for miles. It fucking drained everyone before the game even really started. If I were on that season I would be like , "are you fucking kidding me, you want me to do what?" But at the same time, it's a hefty testament to the title of survivor.

Cook Islands I need to rewatch but I seem to remember some great strategy played in that one.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#19

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Scotty wrote:
Golden wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.
Agree about Amazon. I've never really gotten the love.

The season I love that other people don't is Cook Islands. Also Caramoan to some extent.
Amazon was epic because of that giant trek through the jungle to their camp. Literally wading through poisonous snakes and crocs and any other dangerous animals in the jungle for miles. It fucking drained everyone before the game even really started. If I were on that season I would be like , "are you fucking kidding me, you want me to do what?" But at the same time, it's a hefty testament to the title of survivor.

Cook Islands I need to rewatch but I seem to remember some great strategy played in that one.
the season with the big trek at the beginning was Guatemala, not Amazon
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Re: SURVIVOR

#20

Post by Scotty »

Golden wrote:@Scotty - yes I do, but what makes someone 'bitter'... is it being blindsided, or is about how they are blindsided? If Cagayan had been Tony vs Kass, they would have respected one players blindsides and not the others. They still would have been upset about both.

Most games are still won by the person who played the best game despite the fact the jury is bitter towards them.
What makes someone bitter is their blatant disregard for how they played they game as a whole and instead how they played that player.

If tony and Cass were there, Cass would still have lost. Her attitude was a bit pompous and even though the jury felt slighted by Tony, they would give it to him because he wasn't as arrogant about his blindsides. That's my opinion anyway. I don't remember who else he was up against in the finals but if I recall that was a goat season.

I think this is going to be a bit controversial but I don't think Natalie deserved the win over Russell.
Now this isn't to say that I don't think Russ was purely evil in his dedication, but he undermined and manipulated every player on that jury. That season better defined what the social game was, to me: placating the jury.

Let's look at this from the perspective of what the game is made up of: Outwitting, Outplaying, and Outlasting.
Outlasting is self-explanatory.
Outplaying can have dual meanings: primarily, it has a competitive challenge connotation. If that payer consistently wins challenges, they're outplaying. But also, this could be interpreted as outmaneuvering in a positional sense.
Outwitting is the technical social aspect of the game. But it's not just social play. There's an aspect of fooling, of deceiving. This is the strategy aspect of the game.

Now let's look at Natalie and Russell. Who played the better game based on the criterion in the title?
Natalie clung to Russell from early on as one of his puppets. She of course probably didn't see herself as a puppet, but she was. She may have figured out that no one liked Russell and outplayed her competition by happily having him as her own Goat. I don't remember if she ever won an individual challenge. Either way, she didn't need to, because far more strategic players had targets on their back and got out before them. I can't tell you what kind of outwitting she did. She was just a piece of cherry pie that didn't rock the boat or do anything to anyone else. The opposite of an outwitter. She amasses maybe 1.5 of the outwit, outplay, outlast motto.

Russell lied to most of his alliances, and was an all around traitor that would probably make me hate his guts in the game if I were an ally.
BUT
He won a few individual challenges. He helped his team get to the merge. He positioned himself with a shit ton of potential allies. And when those allies were becoming disloyal, he cut the cord. He outplayed them.
And he outwitted his competition by doing so. His schemes were foolhardy and ruthless at best, and in current seasons, would be a red flag for anyone playin with him that he should be voted out.
But he wasn't. And that's the tribe'a fault.

And I think that's a testament to how tight he was in controlling the game as the puppet master. He did play all 3 of the outplay/last/wit pie chart. Unfortunately the jury didn't see him as the honorable person deserving the win, however. Because they were pissed that he unceremoniously ruined their chances of winning. Though...isn't that the game? Only one survivor?

The players define who wins, and not necessarily the original factors of the show. A lay person can applaud him for getting to the end, but in the game, the jury always gets to decide who "deserves" it. There's surely a huge amount we don't see that influences the winners of each season, and that's fair. But inherently, Russell wasn't a terrible player in totality. Because he did play the game, but he didn't play to his butt-hurt jury. And maybe if he was a little more polite about the whole backstabbing could he have looked a little better. Or maybe not. I dunno. I'm a couch critic.

But that Amy perspective on him. Disagree with me if you want, but I love and hate Russ because of his play. I can't necessarily say that I would have voted for him to win if I were in the jury's shoes, but I can definitely say a bitter jury is responsible for his loss.
insertnamehere wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Golden wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:The only one in your top 5 that I don't completely get is Amazon. Yes, Rob C is great, but he also has some cringey moments and the whole battle of the sexes thing was done much better in Vanuatu. (Season 9) Also, I'm not a fan of how the editors portrayed the winner. In a lot of ways, Jenna is the OG Michelle from Kaoh Rong. Let me be clear, I think that Jenna is an interesting person who deserved her win, but I think that the editors made the decision to not show us that, and it hurts the season greatly.
Agree about Amazon. I've never really gotten the love.

The season I love that other people don't is Cook Islands. Also Caramoan to some extent.
Amazon was epic because of that giant trek through the jungle to their camp. Literally wading through poisonous snakes and crocs and any other dangerous animals in the jungle for miles. It fucking drained everyone before the game even really started. If I were on that season I would be like , "are you fucking kidding me, you want me to do what?" But at the same time, it's a hefty testament to the title of survivor.

Cook Islands I need to rewatch but I seem to remember some great strategy played in that one.
the season with the big trek at the beginning was Guatemala, not Amazon
Oh nuts! Really? Dammit it's been too long. Strike through my statement. I don't even remember Amazon
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Re: SURVIVOR

#21

Post by Golden »

Ah, well, if you are one that believes Russell should have won, we will definitely have different views about what a jury should be :p

Since I am basically of the view that Russell is one of the worst players in Survivor history, since he played a game that objectively could never win. I think NO jury would have awarded him the win, because of how much of a dick he was to them. And for me, that's ok. The game is one where you have to betray people and have them still want to be your friend afterwards. It's a tough balance. I think Russell could have sat next to someone who betrayed them all and Russell still would have lost. Russell was fundamentally terrible (possibly worst 5 ever) at the single most important aspect of winning the game.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#22

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@Scotty

I disagree with almost everything you said about Russell and juries lol :yay:

Russell Hantz is not a good player. He never was a good player. I'm not saying "oh he was rude to everyone but he managed to manipulate them anyway." I'm saying Russell Hantz sucks at manipulation, strategy, and basic social graces. He managed to build up a sort of bizarre delusion to himself, and production fell for it anyway because of him bumblefucking his way to the end of HvV. He's basically *TOTALLY EDGY POLITICAL REFERENCE* the Donald Trump of Survivor.

I've maybe had this argument online and offline dozens of times. Instead of going point by point, I'm just going to link to Mario Lanza, my favorite erstwhile Survivor pundit, and his hilarious Funny 115 list of the 115 funniest things to ever happen on Survivor. Russell's two separate inevitable downfalls takes up two spaces. In fact, Russell's HvV game is number 2.

http://funny115.com/v2/50.htm

http://funny115.com/v2/2.htm

And here's a great link deconstructing the "this game is flaaaaaawed! bitter juries!" argument that was written oddly enough, around Season 14, way before Russell even played.
http://www.funny115.com/psychologyofajury.htm
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Re: SURVIVOR

#23

Post by Scotty »

Golden wrote:Ah, well, if you are one that believes Russell should have won, we will definitely have different views about what a jury should be :p

Since I am basically of the view that Russell is one of the worst players in Survivor history, since he played a game that objectively could never win. I think NO jury would have awarded him the win, because of how much of a dick he was to them. And for me, that's ok. The game is one where you have to betray people and have them still want to be your friend afterwards. It's a tough balance. I think Russell could have sat next to someone who betrayed them all and Russell still would have lost. Russell was fundamentally terrible (possibly worst 5 ever) at the single most important aspect of winning the game.
:grin:
What, in your opinion, is his main downfall? Yes, he is delusional. Yes he could be compared to survivor hitler for his lack of honor and respect, but are those characteristics his downfall?

What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?
insertnamehere wrote:@Scotty

I disagree with almost everything you said about Russell and juries lol :yay:

Russell Hantz is not a good player. He never was a good player. I'm not saying "oh he was rude to everyone but he managed to manipulate them anyway." I'm saying Russell Hantz sucks at manipulation, strategy, and basic social graces. He managed to build up a sort of bizarre delusion to himself, and production fell for it anyway because of him bumblefucking his way to the end of HvV. He's basically *TOTALLY EDGY POLITICAL REFERENCE* the Donald Trump of Survivor.

I've maybe had this argument online and offline dozens of times. Instead of going point by point, I'm just going to link to Mario Lanza, my favorite erstwhile Survivor pundit, and his hilarious Funny 115 list of the 115 funniest things to ever happen on Survivor. Russell's two separate inevitable downfalls takes up two spaces. In fact, Russell's HvV game is number 2.

http://funny115.com/v2/50.htm

http://funny115.com/v2/2.htm

And here's a great link deconstructing the "this game is flaaaaaawed! bitter juries!" argument that was written oddly enough, around Season 14, way before Russell even played.
http://www.funny115.com/psychologyofajury.htm
Hah. Fair enough. I have to go to rehearsal but I will read that at some point tonight.

I will not disagree that Russ's worst performance was doing the same strategy in HvV since it worked very little in his first attempt, but barring him being a delusional troll, I can understand his thinking that he got jipped from the win with newbies, and maybe in a season of all-stars, they'll respect his ruthless cunning.

They did not. And no one will reward gameplay like that, based solely on how he went about it. But. My point is that it is due to bitter juries, and not necessarily the "way the game should be played"
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Re: SURVIVOR

#24

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Scotty wrote:What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?
People have to like you as a person. They might vote for someone who hurt them, they might vote for someone they are mad at, but they will never vote for someone who they genuinely think is a horrible person.

Russell did not care if he was liked, he believed he could overtly treat other people as though they were dumbasses. He isn't a nice person, and he made it abundantly clear to those around him.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#25

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100000% agree with golden/insertnamehere on this!

russell may be my least favorite survivor of all time? yes there's people worse than him as a person (colton comes to mind), but don't forget that there was a hantz on 5 separate seasons between 19-26 (and they should not have casted brandon he clearly wasn't stable enough to be on survivor)

i still don't understand why they edited samoa like they did :( i feel like it would be an AMAZING season if galu + natalie obviously was more visible and russell was less present/more shown to be how he really was (as he was in HvV)

i feel like samoa has the chance to change a lot for me on the rewatch because now i feel like i will be looking especially hard for hints to natalie's win (if there are any)

the only two jury decisions that i sort of disagreed on were vanuatu's and caramoan's
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Re: SURVIVOR

#26

Post by Scotty »

Golden wrote:
Scotty wrote:What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?
People have to like you as a person. They might vote for someone who hurt them, they might vote for someone they are mad at, but they will never vote for someone who they genuinely think is a horrible person.

Russell did not care if he was liked, he believed he could overtly treat other people as though they were dumbasses. He isn't a nice person, and he made it abundantly clear to those around him.
That is what the game has evolved into, I will agree. There aren't any written rules in that regard, only unspoken ones.

And let me be clear: I like when the moral person win above the retches. But only if they showed any form of play. Russel played the game. Natalie? She got a tan and made a million dollars. That's how I look at it. They gave the money to someone who wasn't a horrible person, and for no other reason than that.

There's always that nagging feeling in the back of my mind, where if Russell did win at least once playing the way he did, i would rue the day I defended him. He's an extreme.
tin man wrote:100000% agree with golden/insertnamehere on this!

russell may be my least favorite survivor of all time? yes there's people worse than him as a person (colton comes to mind), but don't forget that there was a hantz on 5 separate seasons between 19-26 (and they should not have casted brandon he clearly wasn't stable enough to be on survivor)

i still don't understand why they edited samoa like they did :( i feel like it would be an AMAZING season if galu + natalie obviously was more visible and russell was less present/more shown to be how he really was (as he was in HvV)

i feel like samoa has the chance to change a lot for me on the rewatch because now i feel like i will be looking especially hard for hints to natalie's win (if there are any)

the only two jury decisions that i sort of disagreed on were vanuatu's and caramoan's
Talking about Colton- look, he's defendable in that he is the way he is because of his upbringing. Russell is some other kind of animal that is totally conscious of what he is doing.

As for the editing of that season- I think they had to show as much Russ as they did because he was the mastermind of doom for a lot of people. And you must admit he made good Reality TV. Crowds eat that shit up. Sort of like they decided to make the entire cast from One World into a Big Brother Knock off.

I Agree they should have shown more Natalie, but at the end of the day, what would they have shown? What did she do in the game besides not rock the boat? That doesn't make good TV. :shrug2:

Let's talk Coach. Is coach a good or bad player?
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Re: SURVIVOR

#27

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Scotty wrote:What, in your opinion, is his main downfall? Yes, he is delusional. Yes he could be compared to survivor hitler for his lack of honor and respect, but are those characteristics his downfall?

He voted people out at the very moment that they would be angriest at him, while treating them like absolute shit on the way out. He also often voted people out for little to no strategic reason, mainly just for insane paranoid reasons. Case in point, in HvV, he turned on Danielle who up until that point had been one of his closest allies, because he thought "she and Parvati are too close." He then pulls some transparent BS to try and get Parv to vote for her, which immediately blows up in his face. At Tribal Council, Danielle then starts begging him to say why he wants her out, causing him to start trash talking her to the point where tears are streaming down her face. ALL IN FULL VIEW OF THE JURY. I'd say that whole situation is indicative of his gameplay.

What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?

Making strategic moves in a way that still makes people respect you.

I will not disagree that Russ's worst performance was doing the same strategy in HvV since it worked very little in his first attempt, but barring him being a delusional troll, I can understand his thinking that he got jipped from the win with newbies, and maybe in a season of all-stars, they'll respect his ruthless cunning.

They did not. And no one will reward gameplay like that, based solely on how he went about it. But. My point is that it is due to bitter juries, and not necessarily the "way the game should be played"

When did he ever show ruthless cunning? All he had was dumb luck, paranoia, delusions, and an Apocalypse Now-style descent into madness.

It's people like Russell Hantz that make me say "Thank God for Sandra Diaz-Twine."

And I'm agnostic!
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Re: SURVIVOR

#28

Post by Scotty »

insertnamehere wrote:
Scotty wrote:What, in your opinion, is his main downfall? Yes, he is delusional. Yes he could be compared to survivor hitler for his lack of honor and respect, but are those characteristics his downfall?

He voted people out at the very moment that they would be angriest at him, while treating them like absolute shit on the way out. He also often voted people out for little to no strategic reason, mainly just for insane paranoid reasons. Case in point, in HvV, he turned on Danielle who up until that point had been one of his closest allies, because he thought "she and Parvati are too close." He then pulls some transparent BS to try and get Parv to vote for her, which immediately blows up in his face. At Tribal Council, Danielle then starts begging him to say why he wants her out, causing him to start trash talking her to the point where tears are streaming down her face. ALL IN FULL VIEW OF THE JURY. I'd say that whole situation is indicative of his gameplay.

What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?

Making strategic moves in a way that still makes people respect you.

I will not disagree that Russ's worst performance was doing the same strategy in HvV since it worked very little in his first attempt, but barring him being a delusional troll, I can understand his thinking that he got jipped from the win with newbies, and maybe in a season of all-stars, they'll respect his ruthless cunning.

They did not. And no one will reward gameplay like that, based solely on how he went about it. But. My point is that it is due to bitter juries, and not necessarily the "way the game should be played"

When did he ever show ruthless cunning? All he had was dumb luck, paranoia, delusions, and an Apocalypse Now-style descent into madness.

It's people like Russell Hantz that make me say "Thank God for Sandra Diaz-Twine."

And I'm agnostic!
Hahahah I love it! Like actually I love this viewpoint. He is almost as paranoid as Tony, but his paranoia influenced most, if not all, of his manipulation. "Oh, Danielle's getting too close to Parvati? G'bye"

I actually loved Sandra's win and also think she totally deserved that win in HvV. No qualms there. But of the final 3, I'm still sticking to my guns in s19
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Re: SURVIVOR

#29

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Scotty wrote:And let me be clear: I like when the moral person win above the retches. But only if they showed any form of play. Russel played the game. Natalie? She got a tan and made a million dollars. That's how I look at it. They gave the money to someone who wasn't a horrible person, and for no other reason than that.

I disagree with your core assumption that "Russell played the game and Natalie didn't so hooey" Russell wasn't playing Survivor in Samoa and HvV. He was playing "I'm Russell Hantz! Fuck everyone!" Whereas Natalie was stuck on a tribe with an egotistical loon who she realized would be easy to manipulate into acting like a petulant man-child and pissing off everyone else. Luckily, he was also too dumb to realize that whenever he went on an angry nonsensical way-too-personal tirade, she'd be right behind him, apologizing and bonding with the people who were sent home and to the jury.

I Agree they should have shown more Natalie, but at the end of the day, what would they have shown? What did she do in the game besides not rock the boat? That doesn't make good TV. :shrug2:

I would love to see more of her directly playing Russell and intentionally buddying up to people he pissed off, which is what she did according to interviews with pretty much everyone from Samoa EXCEPT Russell Hantz.

Let's talk Coach. Is coach a good or bad player?

Ironically, in his first two seasons where he was an awful player, he was maybe my favorite male castaway due to how goddamn hilarious he was. However in South Pacific, he actually tried to win the game, and was much less interesting as a result.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#30

Post by Golden »

Scotty wrote:
Golden wrote:
Scotty wrote:What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?
People have to like you as a person. They might vote for someone who hurt them, they might vote for someone they are mad at, but they will never vote for someone who they genuinely think is a horrible person.

Russell did not care if he was liked, he believed he could overtly treat other people as though they were dumbasses. He isn't a nice person, and he made it abundantly clear to those around him.
That is what the game has evolved into, I will agree. There aren't any written rules in that regard, only unspoken ones.

And let me be clear: I like when the moral person win above the retches. But only if they showed any form of play. Russel played the game. Natalie? She got a tan and made a million dollars. That's how I look at it. They gave the money to someone who wasn't a horrible person, and for no other reason than that.

There's always that nagging feeling in the back of my mind, where if Russell did win at least once playing the way he did, i would rue the day I defended him. He's an extreme.
I don't think that's really a game evolution. I think it's always been true. It's just that there haven't been that many times when the choice has been so stark between a likable strategic non-entity and a horrible strategic force. In fact, really, just that one. But I think the result would have been the same in season 1 or in season 32.

In terms of what is a 'written rule' - there are, obviously, none... there are no rules that say a strategic player is worthy, either. Ultimately, I think to win survivor 99/100 times, the winner would need to demonstrate some level of both social and strategic skill. But I think a strategic zero can win over players who are not strategic zeroes, whereas a social zero can only win if everyone left is a social zero.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#31

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insertnamehere wrote:
Scotty wrote:And let me be clear: I like when the moral person win above the retches. But only if they showed any form of play. Russel played the game. Natalie? She got a tan and made a million dollars. That's how I look at it. They gave the money to someone who wasn't a horrible person, and for no other reason than that.

I disagree with your core assumption that "Russell played the game and Natalie didn't so hooey" Russell wasn't playing Survivor in Samoa and HvV. He was playing "I'm Russell Hantz! Fuck everyone!" Whereas Natalie was stuck on a tribe with an egotistical loon who she realized would be easy to manipulate into acting like a petulant man-child and pissing off everyone else. Luckily, he was also too dumb to realize that whenever he went on an angry nonsensical way-too-personal tirade, she'd be right behind him, apologizing and bonding with the people who were sent home and to the jury.

where did it show her manipulating him? She buddied him for sure, but he would have gone into crazy hobbit mode either way. Her win was hinged on the fact that she did vote with him and he didn't turn on her like he turned on Danielle.
I Agree they should have shown more Natalie, but at the end of the day, what would they have shown? What did she do in the game besides not rock the boat? That doesn't make good TV. :shrug2:

I would love to see more of her directly playing Russell and intentionally buddying up to people he pissed off, which is what she did according to interviews with pretty much everyone from Samoa EXCEPT Russell Hantz.

i agree. I would have loved to have seen her playing Russell. It may or may not have transpired at all. We'll never know. If she did in fact buddy up to people he pissed off, that is a valid strategy and I wish they had showed it. That kinda irks me then

Let's talk Coach. Is coach a good or bad player?

Ironically, in his first two seasons where he was an awful player, he was maybe my favorite male castaway due to how goddamn hilarious he was. However in South Pacific, he actually tried to win the game, and was much less interesting as a result.
When we first met him, he was so *out there* that made us as an audience go "waitC is he serious? Does he actually believe this dragon shit?"
His next appearance, again, more of the same. Hilarious, in that I started to really believe he believed in his bullsuit. Then come South Pacific, and...he definitely seemed like he was trying too hard to force his goofy charm on people, which made me feel like he was bull suiting the whole time, or at least posing as his character. And it got old fast.

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Scotty wrote:
Golden wrote:
Scotty wrote:What is the single most important aspect of winning the game in your opinion?
People have to like you as a person. They might vote for someone who hurt them, they might vote for someone they are mad at, but they will never vote for someone who they genuinely think is a horrible person.

Russell did not care if he was liked, he believed he could overtly treat other people as though they were dumbasses. He isn't a nice person, and he made it abundantly clear to those around him.
That is what the game has evolved into, I will agree. There aren't any written rules in that regard, only unspoken ones.

And let me be clear: I like when the moral person win above the retches. But only if they showed any form of play. Russel played the game. Natalie? She got a tan and made a million dollars. That's how I look at it. They gave the money to someone who wasn't a horrible person, and for no other reason than that.

There's always that nagging feeling in the back of my mind, where if Russell did win at least once playing the way he did, i would rue the day I defended him. He's an extreme.
I don't think that's really a game evolution. I think it's always been true. It's just that there haven't been that many times when the choice has been so stark between a likable strategic non-entity and a horrible strategic force. In fact, really, just that one. But I think the result would have been the same in season 1 or in season 32.

In terms of what is a 'written rule' - there are, obviously, none... there are no rules that say a strategic player is worthy, either. Ultimately, I think to win survivor 99/100 times, the winner would need to demonstrate some level of both social and strategic skill. But I think a strategic zero can win over players who are not strategic zeroes, whereas a social zero can only win if everyone left is a social zero.
Right- that has been the case on quite a few seasons that leave me scratching my head as to how they win. But I attribute that to bitter juries. My opinion, of course :grin:
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Re: SURVIVOR

#32

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Going back to Mario Lanza, who proposed that there are 7 concrete facts about Survivor Juries. To see him get into detail about each one, go to this link: http://www.funny115.com/psychologyofajury.htm

JURY FACT #1: It is impossible to master Survivor, because a jury will be made up of players with different motivations every time. And there's no possible way you can control that variable.

JURY FACT #2: The only objective in Survivor is to have a jury that wants you to win. There are no other objectives!

JURY FACT #3: You cannot win Survivor without the help of other people. No player has ever cast four votes for himself in the final Tribal Council.

JURY FACT #4: Survivor is a social game. No player ever won with a jury that hated his or her guts.

JURY FACT #5: A jury will vote against someone just as often as they will vote for someone.


And here's the most important one:

JURY FACT #6: There is no such thing as an inherently unfair jury. A jury (by definition) can only be reactive. The jury did not exist going into the game. They were created because of things that were done to them during the game.

JURY FACT #7: No two juries have ever voted the exact same way.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#33

Post by Scotty »

insertnamehere wrote:Going back to Mario Lanza, who proposed that there are 7 concrete facts about Survivor Juries. To see him get into detail about each one, go to this link: http://www.funny115.com/psychologyofajury.htm

JURY FACT #1: It is impossible to master Survivor, because a jury will be made up of players with different motivations every time. And there's no possible way you can control that variable.
Agreed.

JURY FACT #2: The only objective in Survivor is to have a jury that wants you to win. There are no other objectives!
Bitter juries will not bode well for a back stabber, most of the time.

JURY FACT #3: You cannot win Survivor without the help of other people. No player has ever cast four votes for himself in the final Tribal Council.
the jury literally has to vote for the winner. I think this point is redundant.

JURY FACT #4: Survivor is a social game. No player ever won with a jury that hated his or her guts.
right. If a jury member is bitter, they will more than not take the moral high ground and not vote for the person that they don't like.

JURY FACT #5: A jury will vote against someone just as often as they will vote for someone.

im not sure what this point means. That everyone is a free agent on a final vote? Because that's not true. Sometimes, yes, but I'd wager that most of the time their mind is made up before the final tribal.

And here's the most important one:

JURY FACT #6: There is no such thing as an inherently unfair jury. A jury (by definition) can only be reactive. The jury did not exist going into the game. They were created because of things that were done to them during the game.
Im not disputing this. Like the first point, every jury is different. It's how they choose to look at how they got there that matters. Does [player] deserve to win for backstabbing me? Did he/she even have anything to with forcing me to this purgatory? If so, do I respect his/her game for riding coat tails? Or do I even care as long as they weren't involved in getting me out?

JURY FACT #7: No two juries have ever voted the exact same way.

sure, ok.
My whole point is that many juries are soft, and are probably the type of people that will sue you if you forget to hold the door for them.

This is a blanket statement made from a person that has never been on a jury or been through the ringer. Being trapped with an insane person for 30 days probably has a huge influence on whether or not I will vote for them to win or not. Id probably be bitter too.

Or...just vote out the problem before it becomes a final problem... :scared:
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Re: SURVIVOR

#34

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Scotty wrote: Let's talk Coach. Is coach a good or bad player?
i personally think he is bad. he was a total joke on his first 2 seasons and tried to be serious on his 3rd (which made me lose like... most of my goodwill towards him) and he still got owned by sophie at the FTC (i love sophie btw)
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Re: SURVIVOR

#35

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<3 Peih-geesus
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Re: SURVIVOR

#36

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insertnamehere wrote:<3 Peih-geesus
one of my favorites <3 give her a 3rd chance (even though i doubt it will happen :/)

also just finished episode 2!
Image - HOW did her lips get that bad in like a week

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Re: SURVIVOR

#37

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making process through africa! HOPEFULLY i will be done tomorrow or monday at the very latest.

i just had a question ~ why did brandon vote for kelly and not lex? i just watched that episode and i dont really get why he would choose to be a fifth with a pretty solid foursome :(
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Re: SURVIVOR

#38

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tin man wrote:making process through africa! HOPEFULLY i will be done tomorrow or monday at the very latest.

i just had a question ~ why did brandon vote for kelly and not lex? i just watched that episode and i dont really get why he would choose to be a fifth with a pretty solid foursome :(
Brandon in general is kind of mediocre. His best moment was his epic date with Frank, which hopefully you've seen at this point.
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Re: SURVIVOR

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ah just watched that ep and it seems like the main reason was that brandon didn't want to work with frank, and i guess i can see where he's coming from - i cant imagine how hard it would be to be out&proud put with some pretty homophobic people back in 2001
but lol the date was cute <3

i would post a cast ranking right now but i don't want to spoil my ~final africa ranking~ so stay tuned :)

also: i'm start to like big tom more (because how i hate lex more) but then i think about bean gate and then hate him again. but he surprisingly wasn't homophobic so good for him i guess
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Re: SURVIVOR

#40

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also:
i stumbled upon this gif and NEEDED to share.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#41

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tin man wrote:ah just watched that ep and it seems like the main reason was that brandon didn't want to work with frank, and i guess i can see where he's coming from - i cant imagine how hard it would be to be out&proud put with some pretty homophobic people back in 2001
but lol the date was cute <3

i would post a cast ranking right now but i don't want to spoil my ~final africa ranking~ so stay tuned :)

also: i'm start to like big tom more (because how i hate lex more) but then i think about bean gate and then hate him again. but he surprisingly wasn't homophobic so good for him i guess
Big Tom is a lovable goof for sure.

Why Lex was asked back for all stars is beyond me.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#42

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update: i just finished SURVIVOR: AFRICA!!
this season was one of the fuzziest in my memory, and i think overall, i like it more than most people? the boot order was atrocious, but overall i think there were a LOT of really good characters.
also, i think i would have voted for KJ? honestly they were talking about her tagging along, but she did win the last 2 immunities, and like, what exactly did ethan do?

here is my ranking!
SEASON 3: AFRICA

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(ok wtf i'm getting these from official edgic but some of these are just so wrong? how is frank CP overall????)

cast ranking:
lindsey - I LOVE HER!!!!! this season went downhill once she got voted off. how amazing would HER second chance be?? her winning the nature tiebreaker over carl <3 <3 "if we don't frank off tonight i'm going to KILL MYSELF"

kelly - i feel like she reminds me a lot of courtney yates honestly?? she was basically irrelevant pre-swap, but after me being mildly annoyed by lex, her out-of-the-blue confessional about how lex was annoying was SUCH a breath of fresh air and in her last 2 episodes she seriously was amazing!!! Image *fans self*

teresa - omg I LOVE HER!!!! what a sweetheart so robbed of second chances omg. there is NO WAY monica/kelley deserved a spot over her. also the female cast was so much better than the males for cambodia. she also showed a lot of strategic aptitude, especially considering it was only season 3? i think she could have done really well in cambodia honestly. she's honestly such an angel and i love her Image

silas - such a douche <3 the very first tribe swap victim!!! Image "flabbergasted"

frank - how is he real??? "brunch is .... what exactly?" "i have NEVER..... broken the honor of a handshake" "good for you frank!" lol. him trying to bond with his liberal tribemates by trashing liberals and talking about guns. him bonding with elephants because he couldn't talk to people <3

kim j. - robbed?? surprised that t-bird and kelly didn't vote for her :( one of the few older women who made it to the end who actually seemed to have a chance? i loved her arc of fucking up countless challenges for boran in the pre-merge and being ONE challenge away from being voted out to being (the most random?) challenge beast haha.

clarence - omg poor clarence </3 i really liked him and thought he was overall a funny presence. also i felt so bad for him in beangate

brandon - ugh i have such mixed feelings on him!!!!! i kind of do relate to him honestly, but HE SHOULD HAVE VOTED LEX OMG THE SEASON WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER!!! i go from loving him to hating him i feel so fast. like in ep 6 when he was loyal to lindsey and then ep 7 when he randomly was like "lindsey was so annoying"

linda - lol how weird!! "did your mother ever hug you???" "we have 30 minutes to get to the challenge hurry up!! why don't one of YOU read it? (to lindsey and co as they were just waking up) Image adding this again

kim p. - the least relevant mallrat?? i dont have that many strong feelings on her either way

ethan - idk i never really warmed up to him </3 i am NOT a fan of the boran boys and honestly i feel like he was more carried to the end than KJ?? he is attractive though but GJ

jessie - super chapped lips, also irrelevant

carl - irrelevant and against the mallrats so whatever bye!

diane - died at the challenge but i don't feel bad for her because she treated clarence terribly and i like clarence!

tom - although i did start to warm up to him at the end, his performance in the first couple episodes are godawful and there's not that many people in this cast i actively dislike so he ends up here :) also why was he bitter at kim for...winning challenges in the final tribal council??

lex - god how annoying :( he was such a present force of negativity and thank god kim j voted him off <3

wow i really love this cast?? realistically the top 5 could easily all be in my top 100.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#43

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I'm like 3 or 4 seasons behind on survivor. I used to watch it religiously but not so much now :/

My ultimate favourite survivor is Jane from Nicaragua :nicenod:
Lunalee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#44

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Quin wrote:I'm like 3 or 4 seasons behind on survivor. I used to watch it religiously but not so much now :/

My ultimate favourite survivor is Jane from Nicaragua :nicenod:
seriously catch up! seasons 29 and 32 are some of my favorites :)

jane is one of those contestants i seriously can't decide if i like her or not lol also wow nicaragua is one of the seasons i am most excited to rewatch. honestly one of the top 5 overall casts i would say.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#45

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SMH at the lack of responses. oh well i am starting marquesas soon i've been lazy so STAY TUNED.
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Re: SURVIVOR

#46

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tin man wrote:SMH at the lack of responses. oh well i am starting marquesas soon i've been lazy so STAY TUNED.
man you really are devouring the series. I barely have enough time to poop these days let alone rewatch a show!
marquesas is top 10 though. have fun!
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Re: SURVIVOR

#47

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Scotty wrote:
tin man wrote:SMH at the lack of responses. oh well i am starting marquesas soon i've been lazy so STAY TUNED.
man you really are devouring the series. I barely have enough time to poop these days let alone rewatch a show!
marquesas is top 10 though. have fun!
so far.... i don't like it :( but this is the first season (besides borneo i guess) where the series actually improves post-merge instead of declines so i will stick w it! also i hate boston rob.
but i don't even have anything to look forward to because thailand is next :(
but THEN i have amazon/pearl islands so i will hopefully just force myself to marathon thailand so i can get to the good stuff :omg:
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Re: SURVIVOR

#48

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HOW DID I MISS THIS

It's been a while since I saw Africa, but I remember Lex striking me as a complete calamity of a person in a kind of interesting way. Maybe it's my kind of bizarre affection for the grim misery of All-Stars poking through.

Ethan is such a goddamn nice guy tho. He's literally the only person who comes out of All-Stars looking better than they looked before. Plus all the recent stuff with his charity work and his cancer scare...

I watched Marquesas a few months ago and LOVED it. It somehow managed to make me come around on Boston frickin' Rob, about whom I have a theory.

BR is one of the rare players who is infinitely less fun to watch when he's actually controlling the game and winning. See also Tyson Apostol and Coach.

Marquesas has maybe the best string of episodes I can think of, so I'd advise you to hang in there tin man.

Also, T-BIRD WAS ROBBED!
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Re: SURVIVOR

#49

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Quin wrote:I'm like 3 or 4 seasons behind on survivor. I used to watch it religiously but not so much now :/

My ultimate favourite survivor is Jane from Nicaragua :nicenod:
ick no

I really really disliked her. probably my least favorite person from that season
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Re: SURVIVOR

#50

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lol i will push on! i know it gets better but also i tend to like stuff based on how i like characters, and there isn't really anyone in marquesas that compares to THE lindsey richter.

also i love jane. but she's not close to being my favorite. nicaragua's cast <3
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