Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[ika]

That "MP has reads on all his null-ISOs" from IAWY makes so much sense now. Oh hindsight.

Yeah.

Not having day chat was incredibly paralyzing and foreign to me, especially at first. I wanted to tell IAWY and ika many things, lol, and I was especially frustrated by ika only going after his teammates, but the WIFOM worked out I suppose. I didn't feel it wasn't an easy game, despite the fact that there were still 3 of us alive at the end. I kept worrying about every single post I made; I tried my absolute best to make sure I was approaching the game as a townie. It was difficult to avoid confirmation bias, no doubt.

if you tried to tell me what to do i would of 100% ignored you. my scum play is complied of trying to forget my allies or bussing them to oblivion. i set an agenda to play as scum and will commonly ignore my buddies stuff to lack an awarenss or set up everything i need to do

I don't tell people how to play. I don't like people telling me how to play; furthermore, I think it's inappropriate. Trying to strategize is one thing, but trying to tell someone else how to play is another.

Nonetheless, it was difficult for me to navigate everything you and the rest of the team were doing without a day chat, especially since I'm very accustomed to it, but in the end it worked out great, obviously. It was great to get to play with you and get knowledge of your mafia game firsthand, and thanks for being a part of the team.

i only set up what people should potentially be doing, i mean last night you could see me literally saying what to do in the situation fo all of us in the JKer situation

ive dont both with and without day so it worked fine for me

this is probally (as silver said) one of my last game i will be doing for some time unles hydras become a thing. its too taxting one me. ill finsih anything signed/playing but other then that i will be not doing as much. have other RL obligations and setups stuff

[Tangrowth]

Also sorry MM if I was harsh on the vig. It is not easy to make that call. I usually go for lurkers if I can't find a truly scummy player but that's me.

Yeah, being the vig isn't easy for sure.

[ika]

Also sorry MM if I was harsh on the vig. It is not easy to make that call. I usually go for lurkers if I can't find a truly scummy player but that's me.

Yeah, being the vig isn't easy for sure.

i lvoe vig, i get to shoot ppl and ignore everybody else

[Tangrowth]

I'll also say that I don't think this original Matrix12 is balanced very well (at least not setup F as we played in). A 13 vs. 4 ratio is already difficult to work with, and giving the mafia team an extra kill on top of that is too much. Town had a decent arsenal of powers to combat that, but not enough. Thankfully they've tweaked the matrix at MU and it ought to be a bit better now that the tournament games have started.

That's not to take anything away from this mafia team, who clearly deserved to win.

I'm with you there; the extra kill right off the bat really helped us narrow down the numbers early, and it helped specifically because it was Epi.

But yeah, I still worked my sock ass for this win.

[Tangrowth]

I used to have winners' banners in my sig along with all my host ones, but I removed them once I realized I'd be focusing much more on hosting and admin stuff rather than playing.

I have to make an exception for this one though. Thanks again for the game, Jay. It was so much fun and served as a very welcome distraction for me amid these last couple weeks of the semester, although I'm sure I'll be hating life hereafter. I'm just glad the game ended now, actually, I wasn't looking forward to finding time today and tomorrow, at a minimum.

You all were a really great group of players too. This was an awesome game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mafia team chatzy

The earliest stuff may no longer be visible. If you're a participant in the tournament, expect a private thread rather than a chat room.

[Tangrowth]

This is going to sound insane, but I kept trying to set myself up as much as possible for specific F3 situations, and was secretly hoping the game would progress to that point even if it meant we could have won otherwise with more players left alive. My ideal F3 situation was with Golden and MM, or Golden with Soneji. I just thought it'd be fun to be in that situation.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My biggest regret is that I couldn't play in the game myself. I hated watching the competitive energy and ego of this game without the ability to insert my JJJ ass right into the madness.

[Tangrowth]

My biggest regret is that I couldn't play in the game myself. I hated watching the competitive energy and ego of this game without the ability to insert my JJJ ass right into the madness.

That would have been truly awesome.

You and I need to be mafia teammates one day.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You and I need to be mafia teammates one day.

We'd ISO one another's ISOs and the ensuing ISOception would implode the universe.

or just make one of us die at our laptops

[Tangrowth]

You and I need to be mafia teammates one day.

We'd ISO one another's ISOs and the ensuing ISOception would implode the universe.

or just make one of us die at our laptops

Too true.

[Tangrowth]

I realize though that this game means I'm probably going to get policy lynched forever and never trusted again, so maybe I'll slink away from playing for long enough that people forget about it...

[Ricochet]

Soo... should we have sent MP instead?

Interesting. I had a vibe, watching from afar, that MP busting his ISOs is disingenuous, but I didn't really spectate this very much.

Also, lol, ika literally does what he claims all the time he'd do as scum (kill Silverwolf on N1) and nobody gives a shit. And he survives the game. And wins.

[ika]

My biggest regret is that I couldn't play in the game myself. I hated watching the competitive energy and ego of this game without the ability to insert my JJJ ass right into the madness.

if MP allows i can host the new setup as a special game and you cna play

[ika]

and heres the pm i sent JJJ/dom when zebra asked me about my question (i was at work too)

Hi Silverwolf,

I've spoken privately with ika a little bit, and he requested that I forward a message to you since he is still alive in the game. I've included you both as recipients. I don't object at all if you want to discuss this outside the game, it shouldn't hurt anything in there. If there is anything Dom or I can do to help you both, or anyone else on the site staff, don't hesitate to let me know. The message is attached below.

I hope all is well.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: sigh.......
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:47 pm
From: ika
To: Dom, JaggedJimmyJay

ok i know its been asked an i have beena voiding the answer about this for the longest tim e cus i dont knwo what to do.

what i want to say is "yes i killed silver"

and no its not for intentions of gamethroiwng (cus yes thats what i would be doing)

its much more personal, i have been feeling guilty all day phase and all night phase, i have eneded up crying seval times about it too. i have no appatie either, i have barely beena ble to eat.

i have intentionly not posted cus i just physicaly cant without doing such thing, i would explain it but i litarly alrady did it once (with vote switch)

i jsut..... i can even bear myself to read the thread out of guilt...

any adivce and if i were to do it what would MP/sig thing (not sure if you gusy know new guy)

[Tangrowth]

Soo... should we have sent MP instead?

Interesting. I had a vibe, watching from afar, that MP busting his ISOs is disingenuous, but I didn't really spectate this very much.

Also, lol, ika literally does what he claims all the time he'd do as scum (kill Silverwolf on N1) and nobody gives a shit. And he survives the game. And wins.

I was wondering how you'd be reading me if you were playing.

Yeah honestly, my initial ika play was because I thought Silverwolf was going to burn him by the end of d1, but obviously everything took a different turn. Especially due to how d1 progressed, I had to ask myself often and pretty much from the getgo if I wanted to bus any of my teammates; if so, which ones, and then how I wanted to do it.

[Tangrowth]

To add to that:

Obviously, I decided to play it three different ways -- hard bus with IAWY, hard bus then appropriate lift off of ika, and then initial confusion eventually leading to town read of sig. I tried to develop them all as organically as possible and continually update my feelings with the tide of the thread. While I obviously had to be away from the thread for extended periods due to RL reasons, it also helped me assess what the thread was saying while I was gone, which inevitably influenced how I approached all three situations. It was difficult to suppress my instinctual urge to bus sig, especially since he tends to bring suspicion upon himself (like me), but I managed it.

With that said, when Golden came to the opposite conclusion re: sig and IAWY as I did a bit over halfway through d4, I was seriously concerned. I'm glad we could still keep the lynch on zebra or Wilgy, because a sig flip might have gotten people seriously questioning me, but I had the "I was just wrong" defense all ready to go as well as my clean IAWY interactions as proof I wasn't bad.

[Dom]

Thank you all, for the wonderful game! If there was anything I could have done better, please let me know!

[Tangrowth]

Oh, and I forgot to say, although it was implied with a previous post: Thanks for the banners as well, Jay.

And thanks as well to Dom. You were an incredibly great MoD.

I admittedly can't wait to see Golden and MM's faces (wish I could IRL), but I better leave for a while to actually, you know, do things not mafia and stop spamming a bunch of thoughts that you all probably don't care about. I just can't express how much of my mind space this game took up; I almost always invest myself in games, but I was beyond extreme investment in this one, and it's so satisfying to be able to call it a win.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For some reason I really want a cookie right now.

[Ricochet]

Soo... should we have sent MP instead?

Interesting. I had a vibe, watching from afar, that MP busting his ISOs is disingenuous, but I didn't really spectate this very much.

Also, lol, ika literally does what he claims all the time he'd do as scum (kill Silverwolf on N1) and nobody gives a shit. And he survives the game. And wins.

I was wondering how you'd be reading me if you were playing.

Well your ISO style itself is so different than my approach or Jay's, with the impression that it's tailored according to other website's ISO styles and standards(dunno if that's true or not btw), hence making me question a bit where are you going with it.

But as for it being a scumtell, I don't think it's in any way serious. You've done this in Watchmen and was civ, so...

[Silverwolf]

Silver, a lot of what you were onto with respect to my game was NAI, at least in my view (and obviously Golden's as well), but I still have to give you props for following your lead. You did genuinely get me with the "townies feel emotion, they don't talk about feeling it!" part, which threw me off a bit, but I tried to funnel frustrations that I legitimately feeling with you and ika into that conversation.

And I had no idea why Frog kept saying I was confirmed scum, that was confusing.

When you said you didn't understand how I couldn't sense your frustration, it pinged because you seem to aware of how your emotions came across. That said, you played an amazing game. I don't know if I would of stayed on you all game. Like Epi said, I thought you and Golden were both bad and sig and Wilgy were pinging me too. ika I wasn't sure of at all yet before he killed me.

I will say that I usually heavily question what I find bizarre so I would of questioned you and Golden as one of you whiteknighting the other and maybe eventually would of come around to Golden being scum doing it to town you. It's hard to say what would of happened since I've been dying N1 and N2 in my games recently.

[Marmot]

Indeed, ika insisted on killing Silver N1, which I was OK with because she was onto me more than anyone else. I feared Epignosis, so I killed him too.

Good thing you did, buddy boy, because I was going to grill you. I was of the opinion that you and Golden were both bad.

I was as well.

I was going to kill Golden or MP last night. Unfortunately, I picked the wrong one. I am a terrible vig.

That "MP has reads on all his null-ISOs" from IAWY makes so much sense now. Oh hindsight.

I'm sorry for killing you Dizzy. I think I overanalyzed the IAWY stuff too much on Night 2.

And hey, a message to the town vigilante:

Hold your head high. You're the one who had to pull the trigger, so don't mind any criticism. Shit happens, it's Mafia.

Haha, yeah I don't regret my kill decision last night. I do regret my Night 2 decision though. I was planning on killing DrWilgy originally that night, and consididering he ended up being an easy lynch target the next few days, it was bad to leave him alive.

Wow, so MM was the vig? Nicely done, I couldn't hunt you down, MM, because you concealed your identity through your choice of kills. Shame you had such bad hits though. I'd be interested in hearing your thought process.

That's about the only thing I did right. Stay alive and not let anyone know it was me.

[ika]

MM i think the only thing you did wrong was the fact you killed that night.

one thing i account for as scum 100% of the time is a numbers perspective. when i saw us going into the day, i said vig should not shoot if we myslynch due to it leading to scum autowin

other then that you did good

[Marmot]

MM i think the only thing you did wrong was the fact you killed that night.

one thing i account for as scum 100% of the time is a numbers perspective. when i saw us going into the day, i said vig should not shoot if we myslynch due to it leading to scum autowin

other then that you did good

I think you're right. I found it difficult to have an ability and not use it, especially since I was in fear of being lynched early in the game.

I also thought a Night 2 kill was beneficial because even if I did miss, I could still give the civilians an idea of what scenarios are in play, which at least offers some more information.

Rather than being stuck with 9 possible scenarios, we were able to narrow it down to 4, and likely 3.

[Silverwolf]

Also, lol, ika literally does what he claims all the time he'd do as scum (kill Silverwolf on N1) and nobody gives a shit. And he survives the game. And wins.

This, totally. LOL

[Marmot]

Thanks Golden for jailkeeping MP on Night 2. Had you not, I'd have likely been lynched Day 3 or killed Night 3, and you'd still be alive.

[Golden]

The moment zebra flipped town, I knew it was sig and probably mp. I was buddying mp hard and as I said to ika many times 'if it looks like I'm tunnelling, I'm probably not'. My main goal was to not be dead since I was tpr.

[Golden]

However... the moment when I genuinely believed MP was town was doing my iso towards the end of day 4. Before then it was mostly show. Even after that I was thinking 'this does remind me of me in Economics' - so well played MP, really well played.

[Golden]

I was going to kill Golden or MP last night. Unfortunately, I picked the wrong one. I am a terrible vig.

You really were. The point of vig is to take out non-contributors, not go on gut!

Anyway, I jailkept MP. I did it because I had done it on day 2 and I knew he wasn't town vig, and that town vig was critical to us winning.

[Golden]

Oh, btw, MP and sig both did genuinely slip re setup at the start of day 2.

Worked in sigs favour from my perspective though - I suspected he was town vig. That's basically what was keeping my hand from lynching him.

[Golden]

Effort is never indicative of alignment. If Ika is tunneling he either is a PR w results or its his scum team mate. He will also do it to me if I'm scum in a game and he catches me. Just an FYI no matter hi well you know someone, you should never rely solely on meta alone to read them. Good job scum team and congratulations on the win. Whoever the vig is, should hide their head in shame.

I don't agree with this; it can be. Mafia have to fabricate literally all of their content. It was difficult for me to do that, some of you didn't make it easy.

But it never is indicative with some players, including me.

but tats the thing, how golden was reading you was bassed on your effort and contents IMO. what silver is saying here is that usign that to abirtarly read someone will lead you to misread people

That's not what I was reading MP on at all ika. MP will have great effort and content no matter what his alignment.

[Golden]

I passed out last night for 13 hours, that is why I never showed up again. Congrats to the winners. MP cared way too much about winning a simple practice game

At least I got sig right.

I needed you around at the end there, soneji!

[Marmot]

I was going to kill Golden or MP last night. Unfortunately, I picked the wrong one. I am a terrible vig.

You really were. The point of vig is to take out non-contributors, not go on gut!

Anyway, I jailkept MP. I did it because I had done it on day 2 and I knew he wasn't town vig, and that town vig was critical to us winning.

I disagree.

Regardless, my Night 2 kill was anything but gut. My gut said DrWilgy, but I looked over the EOD1 events, and Dyslexicon looked bad coming out of it. Same with his EOD2 actions, so that is why I opted to kill him.


If you're unhappy with my decision to kill you, I understand. In my defense, my point in lynching zebra over DrWilgy was that if she did come back civ, I thought it would look better for the doctor, hence why I didn't want to kill him. But after zebra flipped, I went into Night 4 with the most likely of scum teams being you, MP, and sig. We were in pretty dire situation as it was, so I opted to kill the one I felt would be hardest to lynch. I felt good enough about Soneji not to kill him. I didn't feel confident either way on ika. Considering the situation last night, I thought it was best to kill someone who is likely scum, not someone who is a non-participant. I don't think that is the wrong way to approach it.

[Golden]

And hey, a message to the town vigilante:

Hold your head high. You're the one who had to pull the trigger, so don't mind any criticism. Shit happens, it's Mafia.

Exactly - but I'll still give you shit for it MM

[Golden]

One other thing I wanted to mention is that town needs town blocs to beat out scum. This means I always town hunt. If I can find them and PoE out the scum, then town has a chance. The hard part is when town doesn't post much because I will try to lynch low content posters starting D2 usually.

I agree. I did real difficulty finding my town block this game. I'm most gutted that I didn't jailkeep you on day one and also Marco on day 3 (who I thought I'd sent in a PM to jailkeep).

[Golden]

I'll also say that I don't think this original Matrix12 is balanced very well (at least not setup F as we played in). A 13 vs. 4 ratio is already difficult to work with, and giving the mafia team an extra kill on top of that is too much. Town had a decent arsenal of powers to combat that, but not enough. Thankfully they've tweaked the matrix at MU and it ought to be a bit better now that the tournament games have started.

That's not to take anything away from this mafia team, who clearly deserved to win.

I agreed with this, so I'm glad to hear there are tweaks.

[Golden]

I realize though that this game means I'm probably going to get policy lynched forever and never trusted again, so maybe I'll slink away from playing for long enough that people forget about it...

That's what I thought about eco, and then I won another 6 or something games for the year.

[Marmot]

And hey, a message to the town vigilante:

Hold your head high. You're the one who had to pull the trigger, so don't mind any criticism. Shit happens, it's Mafia.

Exactly - but I'll still give you shit for it MM

Now we're even since you almost botched "Gentleman's Guide" for us. :P

Well I don't know if this would be considered being even since we won in spite of that, but I can always give you shit for that.

[Golden]

With that said, when Golden came to the opposite conclusion re: sig and IAWY as I did a bit over halfway through d4, I was seriously concerned.

Soneji wasn't there. Zebra was upset with me and not willing to engage with me. I really wanted to have discussion around sig but with only you willing to talk to me...

That's why it worked, ultimately.

[Golden]

If you're unhappy with my decision to kill you, I understand. In my defense, my point in lynching zebra over DrWilgy was that if she did come back civ, I thought it would look better for the doctor, hence why I didn't want to kill him. But after zebra flipped, I went into Night 4 with the most likely of scum teams being you, MP, and sig. We were in pretty dire situation as it was, so I opted to kill the one I felt would be hardest to lynch. I felt good enough about Soneji not to kill him. I didn't feel confident either way on ika. Considering the situation last night, I thought it was best to kill someone who is likely scum, not someone who is a non-participant. I don't think that is the wrong way to approach it.

Nah, I'm not unhappy. I was pretty sure we'd lost at that point anyway. If it had been me, I would have used it on sig, BUT, I knew I was good and you didn't.

[sig]

@Golden we protected me last night so it wouldn't have mattered much. :P
Also why did you think I was mafia?

I disagree with vig taking out only lurkers. While it might work I think in the end it damages town more espacilly if your mafia members are high posters.

[Golden]

@Golden we protected me last night so it wouldn't have mattered much. :P
Also why did you think I was mafia?

I disagree with vig taking out only lurkers. While it might work I think in the end it damages town more espacilly if your mafia members are high posters.

Your protection was a fail, sig... I jailkept MP!

I thought you were mafia because of your links to IAWY, and your closed-mindedness on setup options in early day 2, but that's also why I thought you could be vig.

[sig]

Okay yeah it was a risk defending IAWY, but I figured it was worth it.

[Silverwolf]

I disagree with vig taking out only lurkers. While it might work I think in the end it damages town more espacilly if your mafia members are high posters.

The main reason I thought you were scummy in the end there was the fact that you were lining up lynches. But you were not the only one.

The scum team all did well.

I would shoot lurkers as vig if I didn't have good scum prospects to target. Because there is no way to read people who won't post. They could be scum or unhelpful town. But again, this is just me. I have a prejudice against lurkers?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I'm MM in the end there, I use my vig shot. I'd also target a clear scum read (regardless of post count). I think dire scenarios like that call for gambles, and that's what he did.

He wasn't far off either. He decided to shoot one of the two biggest controlling influences over the thread; he just picked the wrong one. The game could have turned completely had he shot MP.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Not considering MP being jailed of course.

[Tangrowth]

For some reason I really want a cookie right now.

Yes! I know you didn't have a "theme", but I loved the cookie flips.

Also, oatmeal raisin is awesome.

What was my cookie?

[Tangrowth]

Soo... should we have sent MP instead?

Interesting. I had a vibe, watching from afar, that MP busting his ISOs is disingenuous, but I didn't really spectate this very much.

Also, lol, ika literally does what he claims all the time he'd do as scum (kill Silverwolf on N1) and nobody gives a shit. And he survives the game. And wins.

I was wondering how you'd be reading me if you were playing.

Well your ISO style itself is so different than my approach or Jay's, with the impression that it's tailored according to other website's ISO styles and standards(dunno if that's true or not btw), hence making me question a bit where are you going with it.

But as for it being a scumtell, I don't think it's in any way serious. You've done this in Watchmen and was civ, so...

How is it different? Just curious on your take there.

[Tangrowth]

However... the moment when I genuinely believed MP was town was doing my iso towards the end of day 4. Before then it was mostly show. Even after that I was thinking 'this does remind me of me in Economics' - so well played MP, really well played.

You sneak! I did wonder why you were buddying me so much, but I figured you were being honest.

The moment I was JKed n2 though, my instinct was that you were the JK. I tried to role check MM that night and it failed.