[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[RadicalFuzz]

And as for the "I see what you're putting down" comment I made to Mac, that's another enigma that will have to be revealed post-game. Even to me.

Diiny I didn't push him because I didn't want to lynch him in his first game for that. It was emotion-driven ignorance. I thought he might become engaged in his defense, but that was not the case. I don't regret not pushing him, I'd do it again every time.

[motel room]

Eloh, Motel, comment on my thoughts please.

About the "who do ppl think we're targeted" "bait" by choutas?

Some of you guys really pounce on things at face value hey.

I'll reply when I get into the office, on my phone and it sucks

So the Choutas thing doesn't really bother me at all. Don't know why you find it scummy. Asking who people thinks was targeted may be more indicative of a replier's town read mindset or a scum trying to mislead or if the scum say the right name that was targeted maybe the SK would get an inkling that person was scum. Why would a scum be interested in asking that question?

Is this even what you're asking about? It was the most recent you\Choutas interaction I saw.

But on the other hand, Choutas, I get why you think not replying would be more likely scum because they don't want to give anything away but the one time I tried something like that (I tried to get people to call out who they thought was the doctor after a nightkill failed) the first person to answer, and confidently, was scum.

[Elohcin]

MM the reason I thought you were town without asking you is unable to be spoken due to the rules of this game.

Eloh basically you're lynching me half because you think I'm actually scum, and half because there's a connection between Rico and I that led you to a conclusion that if I am scum he is most definitely town? What is that connection?

No, I am lynching you b/c of the mac connection, not a Rico connection. There is no real connection between you and Rico imo. But others think he had a slip. If you turn out scum then that is just a cherry on top for confirming that my read on Rico is correct.

[Diiny]

I think bcornett is a strange individual. I don't think he's particularly helpful in any sense of the word, but I can't tell if that's because he's scum or if he's just not helpful.

He can be helpful as. He sometimes shines with magnificent towniness. He hasn't done so this game and has failed to replicate it as scum.

Just to fuck with my meta reads, though, there's some GAME SCIENCE that exists that suggests he's more than likely in the clear because if LC (his teammate if he were scum) voted brian, it'd reveal that someone who voted brian was in fact flowers. I think that's the case, anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

He's not confirmed, but it's unlikely mafia would like to reveal someone on brian's train was flowers. that said, maybe they were hoping that it could've been explained by the other vote changing role?

Proposers of the cleared brian theory, pls respond to that: how would it have been obvious that it was flowers fuckery rather than anything else? Am I missing something?

[Diiny]

And as for the "I see what you're putting down" comment I made to Mac, that's another enigma that will have to be revealed post-game. Even to me.

Diiny I didn't push him because I didn't want to lynch him in his first game for that. It was emotion-driven ignorance. I thought he might become engaged in his defense, but that was not the case. I don't regret not pushing him, I'd do it again every time.

Wh-what?

So you thought it was scummy but chose to ignore it to be nice?

In other words, YOU DELIBERATELY DIDN'T PICK UP ON AND USE TO TOWN'S ADVANTAGE SOMETHING YOU GENUINELY BELIEVED WAS BAD IN THE NAME OF BEING NICE

[RadicalFuzz]

Wilgy you son of a bitch I just realized what you did. J3 is my answer, you should be able to tell the exact timing but I doubt I can go into that.

Okay Elo, thanks for elaborating.

Diiny you are correct. I thought I made that abundantly clear at the time. I posted that I found it objectively scummy but wasn't going to personally pursue it. I attempted to be clear that I was aware my decision was an illogical one.

[Epignosis]

I have something fresh to bring to the table.

In looking through Bullzeye's posts, I noticed this exchange with Golden:

I don't think he's bad and I won't take whatever bait he thinks he's thrown out there.

This makes no sense. If you don't think I'm bad, why wouldn't you take the 'bait' I've thrown out there. If you think I'm civ, surely you know me well enough to trust my gambits?

Because I think you're a civ and I'm not into lynching civs regardless of what you think it will accomplish.

Anyway, I doubt Il'l have a chance to be back before the lynch. I'd vote myself if I could, but that would be heinous rule breaking deserving of punishment, so I'm sticking with it on JJJ. I don't think Sorsha is the right person to lynch.

Good luck everyone - I'm really hoping that I'll discover you have listened to me, but if you lynch someone else then good luck on that one.

@JJJ - oh, really, you think I haven't considered a disastrous impact of my own lynch? What would that be?

@Bullz - I don't think refusing to hear other civilians is a townie thing to do.

I don't think lynching civs is a civ thing to do. Nor do I think pressuring people to lynch you is in any way a useful tactic regardless of alignment.

There are a few other posts like this...

Bullzeye refuses to vote for Golden, because Bullzeye thinks Golden is a civilian. This is Day 3. Bullzeye replaced sanmateo Day 2 and had 27.5 pages to read. Why would Bullzeye think Golden is a civilian at this stage?

But hold the phone:

Golden -- Bad vibes. In the midst of protecting LC, he took the opportunity to go after me for behavior that makes no sense if I'm bad. I think he knows that, and saw an opportunity to capitalize. That's exactly what I was looking for from someone, and Golden ended up being the culprit. When I prodded him to tell me what he thinks I might be doing as a baddie, he had nothing. He even insinuates that he doesn't have to have anything. That's not a good look.

This is a good summary of why I, too, do not have good feelings about Golden right now. He's one of a few I'd say could be LC's team. Epi and Sorsha are in there too for trying quite hard to discredit the LC case.

Emphasis mine.

How did Bullzeye go from suspecting Golden on the same Day so quickly?

Yay, 2-ish pages is much easier to catch up on. Welcome to the game Fuzz, I don't envy your catchup at all. I will probably be changing my vote today, as I feel more reasonable about Sorsha. However I was going to move it to Epi until he came in being all genuine and making so much sense. He won't be getting my vote either. Nor will Golden. I don't know what game he's playing but it's ridiculous and disruptive and I don't see why a baddie would ever do such a thing so blatantly. I don't think he's bad and I won't take whatever bait he thinks he's thrown out there.

That is the only explanation offered. When bea gets lynched, Bullzeye mocks Golden:

So Golden's big scheme that we should've all gone along with or be considered suspicious was... to kill a civvie? Good work!

What does this mean?

What's more bizarre is that MacDougall actually voted Golden, but that same Day phase, he had this to say:

@MacDougall - like I say, if you think I am scum, lynch me.

I encourage that today, there are only two lynch candidates on the table.

One is me, one is Jay. Vote with your feet. Jay for you think it was a bus. Me for you think Jay is a town hero.

King Arthur, here we bloody well come.

Wait, why would you be scum? I've missed something here. I didn't have you trying to abandon the LC lynch until right at the end. By the time you came along it would be nuts for you to be so obvious if you were scum?

No, I have you as a solid town read. I also have Jimmy. Why would one of you be scum?

GOLDEN

JJJ

MACDOUGALL

MATT F

Good

Good

Me

Bad

Okay I get it now. Golden is scum pretending to be reckless town and it began when LC flipped scum and he cracked badly and has been trying to glue together all the crumbs that fell out with a more and more intricate series of wifom plays and bullshit.

Changing my vote to golden. He reminds me of me as scum.

MacDougall advises thus:

There is a lot of effort going into moving the lynch off golden/sorsha and onto someone else. Watch for llama/bullzeye like votes.

MacDougall is also vague in his exchange with Bullzeye:

Yeah I think FZ has raised a decent point about Russ, and I can't see any other explanations, so I will be *Voting Russti*

Can't see any other explanations for what? His behaviour? I don't like your choice of words here...

Now, prior to this, Bullzeye and MacDougall have had zero interaction, yet MacDougall said this:

BCORNETT

BEA

BLACK ROCK

BULLZEYE

Good

Bad

Good

Bad

Much later:

Looking at the later votes on Devinwagon, and none came before any of these four so it doesn't look like the scum got desparate and tried to double down to ensure Devin got lynched, but it does make me more weary of sig, Bullzeye and Black Rock.

linki: So coupled with Epi's request, let's take a closer look at Black Rock.

sig, Bullzeye, and Black Rock. Black Rock was a non-participating teammate. I wonder if MacDougall named a second teammate here.

In another interaction, MacDougall asks about me (when FZ. and k4j and others have already established that I'm behaving differently, which I don't agree with, but whatever):

Syndicate players, can I get some input on whether epi is playing differently in this game than usual?

He's usually a lot more aggressive. However he did just get killed night one in Recruitment (by accident as well) so he might have been deliberately trying to be more restrained just to avoid his sucky curse of always dying straight away for lame reasons.

Also, I was meaning to say earlier, I think there's good reason to believe that the SK targeted Golden's seductee and that that's why there were two kills shown. In this game there has been a lot of discussion as to whether or not SK's are actually just misunderstood, civ-friendly softies who love cuddles and would never harm a fly unless it was evil. Killing the basically outed civ removes any doubt that the SK is not civ-friendly. I don't think they'd choose to do that so early on. I think they killed someone else, and that someone was Golden's seduced friend. Then MP wrote the night post to reflect that the SK had both failed to kill one person and also killed Golden. I think that's a far more realistic option.

Why did Bullzeye answer this? As far as I can tell, he's the only one who did.

The Day MacDougall got lynched, Bullzeye was the sole voter for bcornett24.

Now this is something I want to emphasize: In my experience, when Bullzeye is called bad, his retorts can be caustic and nerve-wracking to the accuser. I went against him a few times and he breathed fire through the Internet.

Here, MacDougall has been calling Bullzeye bad, but Bullzeye just shrugged it off:

The most noteworthy takeaway for me is that Bullzeye had very little say on the matter of MacDougall in this game. This is surprising because Mac clearly put some effort into calling Bullzeye a baddie -- both gun to head and in the form of actual accusations. Mac never built a real case or truly pursued this lynch, and Bullzeye did not seem to have much to say at all about the guy repeatedly calling him scum. Curious.

See my previous post re: not having seen any suspicion of me worth taking seriously yet. Mac wasn't giving any substance to his mentions of me. Nothing to say to him really.

I would imagine Bullzeye getting ready to probe MacDougall with a pointy stick shaped like a question mark and demand answers from MacDougall, and I would expect him to retaliate with a vote: His most vocal opponent (as far as I can tell) is about to get lynched and he tosses a vote onto someone who has none?

Doesn't smell right to me.

Gonna fire up the grill and marinate on this some more.

[Diiny]

That's bad.

You're either scum or too nice for mafia.

[RadicalFuzz]

It's not being nice, it's wanting to give him a chance to fail. My first game I was Mafia and made a comeback for the win. I have a large ego and enjoy it when other people fail things I succeeded at. It falls under "illogical" all the same. I'm curious though, are you going to vote me for it?

[DrWilgy]

Alrighty, at a computer, but my time is still short. So the meta thing I was talking about Fuzz: A dank meme of JTM (home for fuzz and I) is "Lynch RadicalFuzz". Fuzz get's voted day one, no matter what, by at least one person, EVEN IF HE IS NOT PLAYING. That's how Fuzz gets his kicks. He may have stated it before, but he is most definitely a Masochist (not a doctor). By this, does Fuzz purposely doing scummy things surprise me? no. If anything, it's what I expect. He wants that "Lynch RadicalFuzz" and then he wants to work with it. "Lynch RadicalFuzz" has probably become one of his favorite, if not best tools to work with in a mafia game simply because of how common it happens and how often he has to analyze it.

The non meta, is that I agree with what everyone else has had to say about Fuzz. It's hard to not think of Fuzz as scum, because of his interactions with Mac and Floyd.

Anyone else have thoughts on what I've said about Chou? I'm wishing upon a star for the last answer to my questions.

*Wilgy goes to the top of a starry hill and looks to the brightest star in the sky*

Right, Choutas.

I do agree that the presumption that Choutas becoming aggressive while his name is not on the lynch list is good to observe. However, I would counter with this. His Day 6 vote looks bad (voted Diiny to put him behind MacDougall 7-5), but Day 7 and Day 8, he voted for Floyd. After having a partner get lynched on Day 6, I don't find it a good move to bus another teammate following that one, especially on Day 8 after another teammate was modkilled. Two mafia dead in two days, I just don't see it being a solid move to intentionally lose another one, even if he was under heat anyway.

So he was aggressive, but he did help lynch mafia in a close lynch poll.

I have an objection, and it derives from this:

Scum lol I destroyed you guys.

I've played around 35 mafia games in my life and I've never bussed a teammate. There is a first for everything in life for sure but that maneuver is something that doesn't suit my idiosyncrasy.

Diiny pointed it out, Choutas's celebration posts are uncomforting. Choutas made it a point to say "There is a first for everything." Why? unless there was actual purpose to it? Also, looking at whom he was first on is worrying as well. He was first to vote LC and Floyd, but didn't vote Mac. 2 out of 3. Others pointed it out earlier that LC had reason to leave the game, being the game he is hosting currently. Floyd, was extremely scummy and didn't have much to contribute. Mac, was almost saved and contributed alot to the thread. From a mafia standpoint, out of the lynched mafia, who is Choutas going to bus for maximum positive review with minimum affect on his team? LC and Floyd. Also, if this is honestly Choutas' first time bussing teamates, why would he not do anything less than extremes? Which would explain why he had to be first.

I got to go to the store now, hopefully I'll return before the deadline.

linki: Oh my god Fuzz... I'm not going to go into detail on this.

[Ricochet]

SHIT

EoD is in two hours, not three, right?

Goddamn DST...

[Russtifinko]

Just realized I forgot to put my vote on motel room when I said I did earlier, so putting it on now while I catch up.

[RadicalFuzz]

I'll have to go in roughly 30 minutes btw. I can make a quick check-in an hour from now, but I'll have to leave for class after that.

[DrWilgy]

Anyone willing to lynch JJJ today? I do not want Fuzz to be lynched at this point, and will save him if needed.

I think I now understand why JJJ didn't chime in on my thoughts from previous on the SK.

[Russtifinko]

Fuzz, this is the post that Elohcin is talking about.

Okay, Matt F. You asked me if Mac has a tendency to vote for his mafia team mates on Day 1. I did some research into the RYM Mafia archives and didn't struggle at all to find valid examples:

But...he didn't vote for any teammates in this game.

How do you know?

Uhm...his vote record?

O wait...

I think I get it now.

derp

Ricochet said MacDougall didn't vote any teammates, if it was not a derp and actually correct, that means that you and Diiny are both civ, since he voted for you (reywas) on Day 1, and Diiny two other times.

I see. Players are using that connection as a way to check Rico and/or me/Diiny. I'm dirtier than Rico, so they're more comfortable with lynching me for this scenario. That makes sense, unfortunately.

It actually doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone can help me out and explain. So my understanding is that the above looks like a slip by Rico, because how would he KNOW Mac didn't vote any teammates in this game? What I don't get is why this leads people to want to lynch Fuzz instead of Rico.

[Ricochet]

I don't know anything about whether or not Mac voted any teammates, Russ. I was thinking about the confirmed mafia (which Mac, of course, never voted for) when I derped with that question.

[Russtifinko]

Elo, since you're here, why did you vote for me?

The tab stays open on my computer. It doesn't mean I am actually here. But I am now. I voted for you b/c I think you are bad. Mac has a record of voting for a teammate day 1. I think there is a good chance that happened this game. Also, I would like to take away the doubt that has been placed on Rico b/c I think he is good.

Have you played with Mac before? I thought he was an RYMer.

I think bcornett is a strange individual. I don't think he's particularly helpful in any sense of the word, but I can't tell if that's because he's scum or if he's just not helpful.

He can be helpful as. He sometimes shines with magnificent towniness. He hasn't done so this game and has failed to replicate it as scum.

Just to fuck with my meta reads, though, there's some GAME SCIENCE that exists that suggests he's more than likely in the clear because if LC (his teammate if he were scum) voted brian, it'd reveal that someone who voted brian was in fact flowers. I think that's the case, anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

He's not confirmed, but it's unlikely mafia would like to reveal someone on brian's train was flowers. that said, maybe they were hoping that it could've been explained by the other vote changing role?

Proposers of the cleared brian theory, pls respond to that: how would it have been obvious that it was flowers fuckery rather than anything else? Am I missing something?

As I read the roles, there weren't any other vote manipulations that could have been in effect and given bcornett at least 2 extra votes at the time.

Linki: Ok, Rico, fair enough. I'm not sure yet whether or not I'd buy that it was a slip, I need to reread you. My leaning based purely on the amount of content you've posted is that no baddie would do that. My question, though, is why the exchange makes anyone at all interested in lynching Fuzz.

[RadicalFuzz]

Anyone willing to lynch JJJ today? I do not want Fuzz to be lynched at this point, and will save him if needed.

I think I now understand why JJJ didn't chime in on my thoughts from previous on the SK.

I'd be down, but it'd admittedly be largely self-preservation. Avalon flashbacks, Wilgy?

[Epignosis]

I'm voting Bullzeye for right now.

[Ricochet]

Choutas

Interactions with other mafiosos evaluation here

Interactions with Floyd
-- D3 put Floyd in orange zone in a rainbow list
-- D5 put Floyd in... dark green? zone in a rainbow list... does this mean neutral or what?
-- D6 questions Floyd's preference to vote Matt over Mac, asks Floyd if Mac is town
-- when Floyd replies he finds both Mac and Matt scum, questions him on why he didn't choose the Mac wagon, finds it scummy, votes for him
-- puts him orange zone in D6 rainbow
-- votes Sig after all, mentioning Floyd as suss
-- D7 votes Floyd based on Matt's case on him; has him bottom red in rainbow list
-- in rebuttal to Diiny, talks about Floyd having done only scummy things and hence earning his vote
-- D8 starts by voting Floyd, bottom red in rainbow list

Floyd interactions with
-- D6 reply to his read on Mac and Matt (already mentioned above)

Read
So braggy post mafia lynch posts aren't my favourite flavor (they remind me of a certain MacBaddie telling everyone how right he was about #metaisbullshit, after LC got lynched) and gut still tells me to be wary of his early-rooster prevalent voting patterns, but credit where it's due, he did vote Floyd the past two Days. This interaction for me hinges on whether his D6 suss of Floyd's flippy-floppy over voting Matt or Mac (confirmed teammate) was a genuine ping or something he would need to show off with. I said teammates would probably make Floyd cultivate his persona further, but that doesn't mean they'd necessarily go easy on him, whilst the civilians go hard.

I probably couldn't give a scum verdict based on this. Maybe the suss is genuine. Then again, I found him kinda scummy with the other interactions

[Ricochet]

Diiny

Sorry, you'll have to churn though this post for interactions with other mafioso

Interactions with Floyd
-- D2 questions Floyd heavily on his thoughts; pinged by him posting more in OT than regular (reminded by motel afterwards that Floyd may be an overwhelmed debutant)
-- D3 questions Floyd's bea vote
-- D7 inquires Eloh on having preferred voting for JJJ over Floyd
-- wouldn't mind a Floyd lynch; asks everyone who would mind, what their choice would be
-- reacts to Floyd's intentional fend off of a case against him
-- pinged by Floyd not arguing his JJJ vote, but posting instead a completely different case (MM on seaside)
-- keeps pressuring Floyd for a reasoning
-- votes him after repeated ignorings of his requests

Floyd interactions with Diiny
-- hardly any serious rebuttals to Diiny's D7 questioning

Read
Bit of a gap between the early and the D7-8 stuff, but overall vibe I get from this is fairly good. Floyd's JJJ vote is an important cue in my book (the first vote he didn't spread like butter all over the poll field) and I find that Diiny being pinged by it feels natural.

Still at some odds with his other interactions, but not so much here.

[Elohcin]

Elo, since you're here, why did you vote for me?

The tab stays open on my computer. It doesn't mean I am actually here. But I am now. I voted for you b/c I think you are bad. Mac has a record of voting for a teammate day 1. I think there is a good chance that happened this game. Also, I would like to take away the doubt that has been placed on Rico b/c I think he is good.

Have you played with Mac before? I thought he was an RYMer.

no, but a fellow RYMer brought over the evidence.

[Russtifinko]

This isn't germane to today's lynch, but needs to be brought up. Epi has, in very strong language, twice claimed credit for the Mac lynch:

You are willing to lynch me based on the alignment of two players that remain a mystery to you, after Long Con, MacDougall, and Black Rock have all turned out to be bad (and I called out two of the three).

Hey Matt: I fucking handed MacDougall to you. And I'm on a team with 3J now? Get some reality in your head, mate.

However, these claims are overstated.

I was the first one to "call out" McDougall, at 8:07 on Tuesday, October 13th:

Spoiler: show

So before my recent catch-up read I was with JJJ in thinking Macdougall looked to be one of towniest aroundiest. After today I'm not so sure, though...

I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.

Others have pointed this out (Epi and Sorsha that I remember), but I think it was a good point: lynching a civ and getting lots of info is NOT preferable to lynching a baddie, even if you get little to no info. I know Macdougall clarified his thoughts after this, but it still sounds funny to me.

There's this....

I'm actually unvoting sorsha and changing my vote to MattF. Something about him is not what it seems my friends. And I aim to get to the bottom of it.

I don't get why you've switched from Sorsha, at one point saying you wont switch for anything less than someone saying "i am scum", to Matt F because of a few "pings". This is a significant bandwagon.

And finally, this post sounds like baddie bitter about Golden being outed.

Something about Sorshas posts just read genuine to me. I'll be surprised if she flips bad.

I uninured agree. I unwarmed don't me in charge buddy! be very surprised.

I agree with golden. He is the best townie in the world after all.

I feel pretty darn bad about Mac now. Probably too late for today, but very worth a look tomorrow.

Epi had made one post at exactly 6:00pm that day lightly chiding Mac for his stance on lynching townies. However, he stopped well short of actually accusing him of anything.

Spoiler: show

I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.

Lynching someone just for clues instead of lynching Mafia which would most likely skip the Night phase and thus prevent two kills?

No thanks.

He then went on to talk about other things, and made 13 other posts before finally posting this actual suspicion of Mac at 9:29pm, nearly an hour and a half after me. (Had to unspoiled the interior of this because apparently you can't embed spoilers within spoilers.)

Spoiler: show

Actually I can get it.

Relationship between MacDougall and Long Con:

Bea has opinions about who is Civvie, but none about who is bad. A Mafia member knows every Civvie out there, so can proclaim their trust with confidence. I think bea is Mafia, and I'm going to put my vote on her for now.

*votes bea*

This post set off scumdar pretty bad. It reads tactical, mindful ... I don't like it. No other posts in Long Con's ISO trouble me. It just seems like a nervous first major action.

MacAttack right off the bat. Good look, not just because it's anti-LC but because this is the kind of thing that helped to force LC to pretend it was ruse.

Here we have MacDougall and LC literally discussing the Nothing but Flowers role in the thread.

Mac brought the role up, and LC couldn't resist the urge to comment. Do I think two mafia team mates were chatting the day away about one of their own roles publicly in the thread? I absolutely don't. Towniest look of any analysis I've done so far, congratulations Mac.

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form.

Spoiler: show

I'm used to an unchangeable vote mentality for the most part. I'll put a vote on Macdougal for the reasons I gave earlier.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

~~~

Mac looks like a townie and y'all should do what he says.

You asked for a second opinion. So here goes.

To your first spoiler tagged entry: Why did MacDougall choose to gun for that particular vote? There were a lot of shitty votes Day 1, as there always are, and Long Con struck me as genuine (and you have Black Rock here verifying that I usually view LC as bad, which is true). Why call him out on that?

I don't know why it never occurred to me before, but I want to go back to Breaking Bad Mafia on RM. Sorsha was bad with then, weren't your Sorsha? Aw, wait, you're dead because people don't listen to sense.

In that game, I was Gus Fring, and my vote was worth a shit ton. While that sort of thing sounds good, it's very hard to hide. I chose to be blatant about it, breaking ties and what not and rubbing it in people's faces. I lasted quite a while.

Long Con was in that game, and he hunted my role hard. It was an exhausting exercise, and I think it's one he didn't look forward to in particular.

Suppose then, that LC decides to have this fake case on a civilian to "test reactions" and get somebody else on his team to call him out on it. They duke it out in the thread, and the plan is to lynch LC, who, let's face it, would be caught eventually anyway (seriously folks, giving Mafia +vote roles only outs them in the long run- it's bad game design). LC gets lynched, and the one who called him out on his gambit gets credit for it.

With a team of seven, it's the kind of thing I'd go for.

The fact that you, 3J, were blind to this possibility concerns me.

MacDougall has gone from gung-ho against Mafia to wanting to lynch civilians to give us fucking breadcrumbs. Fuck breadcrumbs.

I also want to point out that, in the second spoiler tag, 3J highlights "I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM" which directs attention from the rest of the post:

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

3J took this post, highlighted a side note about Long Con, when the overall conversation here was about seaside. Then 3J talked Mac up, saying, "Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form. "

Old form...over a defensive post? Is he usually defensive?

And what happened to lynching seaside for breadcrumbs?

Finally, on this point, tt's worth pointing out that Sorsha, a civilian, suspected Mac.

Mmm...breadcrumbs indeed.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

Raise your hand if you think LC casts OMGUS votes on civilians.

Now raise your hand if you think LC knew what he was about when he did it.

I think this needed to be made obvious, because it's just false and it's confusing other people. (Matt F, for example, actually corrected Epi earlier, saying he wasn't the only one to post a Mac case. However, he neglected to mention that Epi wasn't even first to the scene I believe this is because of Epi's overdone claims.) Epi is jumping at every chance to take credit for this, and I think it's giving people way more of a positive read on him than he deserves to get for his Mac stance.

Linki: Elo, fair enough. JJJ, do you have numbers on how many times he's been bad? If he's 4/4 on teammate votes Day 1, that's damn compelling. If he's 4/20, not so much.

[RadicalFuzz]

J3's out for the night, I believe.

[RadicalFuzz]

Going to attempt to save my life by voting Sig.

Hopefully I'll be back to have a nice chat with J3 tomorrow. If not, could you guys pressure him for me? Thanks.

[Marmot]

Fuzz, this is the post that Elohcin is talking about.

Okay, Matt F. You asked me if Mac has a tendency to vote for his mafia team mates on Day 1. I did some research into the RYM Mafia archives and didn't struggle at all to find valid examples:

But...he didn't vote for any teammates in this game.

How do you know?

Uhm...his vote record?

O wait...

I think I get it now.

derp

Ricochet said MacDougall didn't vote any teammates, if it was not a derp and actually correct, that means that you and Diiny are both civ, since he voted for you (reywas) on Day 1, and Diiny two other times.

I see. Players are using that connection as a way to check Rico and/or me/Diiny. I'm dirtier than Rico, so they're more comfortable with lynching me for this scenario. That makes sense, unfortunately.

It actually doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone can help me out and explain. So my understanding is that the above looks like a slip by Rico, because how would he KNOW Mac didn't vote any teammates in this game? What I don't get is why this leads people to want to lynch Fuzz instead of Rico.

I speak for my vote, but RadicalFuzz's interactions with mafia combined with the Floyd slip wrt Fuzz look more suspicious than Ricochet's possible slip/probable derp.

The votes on RadicalFuzz are there independent of and prior to Ricochet's behavior. Rico just happened to make a comment that could correlate to RadicalFuzz's alignment, but not the other way around.

[Choutas]

Man, I sure would love to vote for Choutas today.

Why? Is his roleclaim false?

I don't know, but I do have some reasons for thinking he may be scummy scummington scummiest scummerino of the sea.

I'm outta here for a bit, but I just realized that 3J doesn't have one single vote yet.

To everyone who switched from 3J to seaside last Day Phase - What's up?

Peace out folks bbl

Oh and Choutas - Were you being funny about the "who do you suppose they targeted?" I guess I'll take you off my civvie for sure list.

It was bait.

Why did you think this was a good idea Choutas? sadly my "why" from before was ignored.

It was a good idea. I had suspicions that they would target me at night. Most people didn't respond to me and they look suss for that. The persons who did respond to me look townier to me. Now here comes a question. Why of all the billion stuff that happened that post stroke you as the scummiest? Explain.

Doc, please show me that you have any interest in baddie hunting. Choutas may or may not answer your questions, but there are a bunch of other people in this game and in recent phases you've given us close to nothing.

It's interesting how his ingame behavour could be summarized as focusing on the lesser posters to scumhunt. First it was Bcornet and the guy could get modkilled tonight. He's using the same "reply to my question" to me the same way he did with Bcornet. I believe he might have wanted to distance himself from a Bcornet lynch/modkill and he now has me as the most scummy player despite my name being off the choices for voting. This is scum behaviour if I ever saw one.
My preferences for today's lynch are sig and drwilgy.

is...

is that a NO U?

Also, my question relating to the highlighted was ignored, I asked previous, what makes you think this?

The reason why it stroke me as scummy is because you were off the lynch list. What a better time for a baddie to try to hunt out roles than when they are not able to be lynched for what they do? also there's a strike 2 in the fact that you say people that responded to this seem to be less scummy seems even dirtier. It's as if you were wanting to draw out more answers by putting out some form of reward. Strike three was stating "it was bait" as fast as you did. What was the point of this if you reveal that it was bait so soon? it kills the exercise if it was genuine, and hurts the potential for more information gain. You said that you see players that responded as less scummy, but I don't believe you gave players time to respond if that was your goal. LC did the same thing with the false bea case. What is the point, if you aren't going to maximize information gain? I mean, you didn't even need to defend your actions at that point, you were off the vote list. What was the point?

You just wanted it to be a No U I have you pegged as orange for two days at least. I still haven't voted for you so you're making things up. Noted.
Me doing what? Going after roles? Lolwut. If I act like a baddie they'll lynch me first thing tomorrow. There were already more suspicious players than me this day. Do you even read the other player's reads? Even if my name was on the poll they'd still prefer to lynch someone else on day 9.
Nobody would answer me after three pages, the thread moves fast regrettably. It still strengthened my Rico read as town. I was suspecting him in the beginning and he swayed me towards townie the last days(that post included).
This case is made out of thin air.

Lol, but you bump me down to lynch status upon accusing you? looks like a NO U to me. Saying I make things up? when you don't read my posts? I had to instruct you to look into my posts just to get my questions answered. It's also apparent that you don't read my posts due to this:

I'm outta here for a bit, but I just realized that 3J doesn't have one single vote yet.

To everyone who switched from 3J to seaside last Day Phase - What's up?

Peace out folks bbl

Oh and Choutas - Were you being funny about the "who do you suppose they targeted?" I guess I'll take you off my civvie for sure list.

It was bait.

Anything revealing so far?

The scum would refrain from replying. You look good same with Matt.

You managed to ignore the fact that I replied. Also you managed ignored that bcornett replied.

What? Highlighted for importance. You are basically saying "there are other players with reads, so ignore me until tomorrow" Is it bad that I am wanting to look outside of the majority's scumlists? Should we not be discussing anyone who isn't a top candidate currently?

I mean... That's great for Rico and all, but you had stated "Scum would refrain from replying." and you still haven't stated what makes you think that. My best guess: you know who scum are, and you know whether or not they would reply.

Thin air? Words are simply carried by it... or computer screens... one of the two...

Someone else please chime in on my thoughts, and this discussion.

[DrWilgy]

Voting Sig for Fuzz's sake.

[Ricochet]

Wait, everyone else voted?

[Marmot]

Voting Sig for Fuzz's sake.

Didn't you just say that RadicalFuzz is objectively a solid mafia read?

[Russtifinko]

Fuzz, this is the post that Elohcin is talking about.

Okay, Matt F. You asked me if Mac has a tendency to vote for his mafia team mates on Day 1. I did some research into the RYM Mafia archives and didn't struggle at all to find valid examples:

But...he didn't vote for any teammates in this game.

How do you know?

Uhm...his vote record?

O wait...

I think I get it now.

derp

Ricochet said MacDougall didn't vote any teammates, if it was not a derp and actually correct, that means that you and Diiny are both civ, since he voted for you (reywas) on Day 1, and Diiny two other times.

I see. Players are using that connection as a way to check Rico and/or me/Diiny. I'm dirtier than Rico, so they're more comfortable with lynching me for this scenario. That makes sense, unfortunately.

It actually doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone can help me out and explain. So my understanding is that the above looks like a slip by Rico, because how would he KNOW Mac didn't vote any teammates in this game? What I don't get is why this leads people to want to lynch Fuzz instead of Rico.

I speak for my vote, but RadicalFuzz's interactions with mafia combined with the Floyd slip wrt Fuzz look more suspicious than Ricochet's possible slip/probable derp.

The votes on RadicalFuzz are there independent of and prior to Ricochet's behavior. Rico just happened to make a comment that could correlate to RadicalFuzz's alignment, but not the other way around.

Ah, that clears it up. That's what I get for reading in backwards order. Thanks, MM.

[Ricochet]

DrWilgy

Sorry, you'll have to churn though this post for interactions with other mafioso

Interactions with Floyd
-- D3 incomprehensible analysis of votes including Floyd
-- D6 inquires Floyd (alongside Mac, Matt, Fuzz) who did he target last Night, thinking... he was one of those who prevented the double kill?
-- continues to mention Floyd in night kill questionings
-- judges Fuzz on not inquiring Fuzz directly and not voting Floyd until he is more involved
-- reads him bad in D7 GTH
-- has b24 higher than Floyd on "would lynch" D7 list
-- has Choutas higher than Floyd on "would lynch" D8 list (instead voted MM)

Floyd interactions with
-- N4 OT "fan" post about Wilgy's reaction...to b24's agenda...?

Read
My read was null to bemused (I mean, that inquiry on Epi was borderline requesting info-dumps, right) until it turned slightly sour reading his D7 and D8 brush by constant mentions of wanting to lynch Floyd, but not more than others. Not sure what to make of this. I'd probably add to the other few pinges I got from his other interactions.


Elohcin

Still can't feel compelled to vote her unless Epig flips bad.


Epignosis

Sorry, you'll have to churn though this post for interactions with other mafioso

Interactions with Floyd (one two mentions on each page until 71 on page 2; I probably deserve such Karma)
-- banter about Kansas on Dusk0
-- calls a big post of mine, which included a wary ping on Floyd's voting, big post of nothing
-- feels meh about the D7 Floyd wagon; considers him worthy of being lynch for a few statements
-- tells JJJ to consider voting seaside instead of using his vote in self-preservation against Floyd
-- inquires b24 on whether he'll still vote Floyd
-- D8 thinks a Floyd lynch needs to happen
-- elaborates on Floyd: as civ, he isn't helpful; as mafia, he made some serious mistakes
-- suss's Floyd based on N5 absence

Read
From "meh" to casing Floyd within one Day phase, but he elaborated his own angle for lynching Floyd, just like he's rather worked on his own pings for the other mafia he lynched or correctly suspected as well. Even with the rather late timing of all of this (and sometimes his input on Floyd came only at others' request, too), it probably can't influence too much my previous four-point "tell me how baddie Epig would have done all this" disbelief in him being mafia.

[Choutas]

Also, calling it that Jay is scum and Choutas is anti-town in some regard.

You've got a wild imagination straw.

Man, I sure would love to vote for Choutas today.

Why? Is his roleclaim false?

I don't know, but I do have some reasons for thinking he may be scummy scummington scummiest scummerino of the sea.

I'm outta here for a bit, but I just realized that 3J doesn't have one single vote yet.

To everyone who switched from 3J to seaside last Day Phase - What's up?

Peace out folks bbl

Oh and Choutas - Were you being funny about the "who do you suppose they targeted?" I guess I'll take you off my civvie for sure list.

It was bait.

Why did you think this was a good idea Choutas? sadly my "why" from before was ignored.

It was a good idea. I had suspicions that they would target me at night. Most people didn't respond to me and they look suss for that. The persons who did respond to me look townier to me. Now here comes a question. Why of all the billion stuff that happened that post stroke you as the scummiest? Explain.

Doc, please show me that you have any interest in baddie hunting. Choutas may or may not answer your questions, but there are a bunch of other people in this game and in recent phases you've given us close to nothing.

It's interesting how his ingame behavour could be summarized as focusing on the lesser posters to scumhunt. First it was Bcornet and the guy could get modkilled tonight. He's using the same "reply to my question" to me the same way he did with Bcornet. I believe he might have wanted to distance himself from a Bcornet lynch/modkill and he now has me as the most scummy player despite my name being off the choices for voting. This is scum behaviour if I ever saw one.
My preferences for today's lynch are sig and drwilgy.

is...

is that a NO U?

Also, my question relating to the highlighted was ignored, I asked previous, what makes you think this?

The reason why it stroke me as scummy is because you were off the lynch list. What a better time for a baddie to try to hunt out roles than when they are not able to be lynched for what they do? also there's a strike 2 in the fact that you say people that responded to this seem to be less scummy seems even dirtier. It's as if you were wanting to draw out more answers by putting out some form of reward. Strike three was stating "it was bait" as fast as you did. What was the point of this if you reveal that it was bait so soon? it kills the exercise if it was genuine, and hurts the potential for more information gain. You said that you see players that responded as less scummy, but I don't believe you gave players time to respond if that was your goal. LC did the same thing with the false bea case. What is the point, if you aren't going to maximize information gain? I mean, you didn't even need to defend your actions at that point, you were off the vote list. What was the point?

You just wanted it to be a No U I have you pegged as orange for two days at least. I still haven't voted for you so you're making things up. Noted.
Me doing what? Going after roles? Lolwut. If I act like a baddie they'll lynch me first thing tomorrow. There were already more suspicious players than me this day. Do you even read the other player's reads? Even if my name was on the poll they'd still prefer to lynch someone else on day 9.
Nobody would answer me after three pages, the thread moves fast regrettably. It still strengthened my Rico read as town. I was suspecting him in the beginning and he swayed me towards townie the last days(that post included).
This case is made out of thin air.

Lol, but you bump me down to lynch status upon accusing you? looks like a NO U to me. Saying I make things up? when you don't read my posts? I had to instruct you to look into my posts just to get my questions answered. It's also apparent that you don't read my posts due to this:

I'm outta here for a bit, but I just realized that 3J doesn't have one single vote yet.

To everyone who switched from 3J to seaside last Day Phase - What's up?

Peace out folks bbl

Oh and Choutas - Were you being funny about the "who do you suppose they targeted?" I guess I'll take you off my civvie for sure list.

It was bait.

Anything revealing so far?

The scum would refrain from replying. You look good same with Matt.

You managed to ignore the fact that I replied. Also you managed ignored that bcornett replied.

What? Highlighted for importance. You are basically saying "there are other players with reads, so ignore me until tomorrow" Is it bad that I am wanting to look outside of the majority's scumlists? Should we not be discussing anyone who isn't a top candidate currently?

I mean... That's great for Rico and all, but you had stated "Scum would refrain from replying." and you still haven't stated what makes you think that. My best guess: you know who scum are, and you know whether or not they would reply.

Thin air? Words are simply carried by it... or computer screens... one of the two...

Someone else please chime in on my thoughts, and this discussion.

Nah the other post is the same post where you quote yourself. It isn't another person. My response covers both since it's the same post with one additional post. You seriously need to start using logic and not accuse me why I quoted one post and not the other when my response covers both since it's the same quote pyramid with one additional quote with the same goddamn question. You must be horrible playing this game. I can't attribute it to any other reason.
I told you I thought I was targeted. You ask me why. You want proof. Do you want me to give you my role pm? Seriously do you want me to screenshot and post? Do you? I don't use another's material to make that point, I use mine. You have to take my word for it. But you clearly won't. Until apparently I break into MP's mod and uncover all the pms regarding the case and post them online I'll forever be your suspect. Again you're really bad at playing this game. You can't call a bullshit when someone says he knows something that can not be proved by any lawful means.

Seriously if you're scum golden raspberry of the year.

[Epignosis]

This isn't germane to today's lynch, but needs to be brought up. Epi has, in very strong language, twice claimed credit for the Mac lynch:

You are willing to lynch me based on the alignment of two players that remain a mystery to you, after Long Con, MacDougall, and Black Rock have all turned out to be bad (and I called out two of the three).

Hey Matt: I fucking handed MacDougall to you. And I'm on a team with 3J now? Get some reality in your head, mate.

However, these claims are overstated.

I was the first one to "call out" McDougall, at 8:07 on Tuesday, October 13th:

Spoiler: show

So before my recent catch-up read I was with JJJ in thinking Macdougall looked to be one of towniest aroundiest. After today I'm not so sure, though...

I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.

Others have pointed this out (Epi and Sorsha that I remember), but I think it was a good point: lynching a civ and getting lots of info is NOT preferable to lynching a baddie, even if you get little to no info. I know Macdougall clarified his thoughts after this, but it still sounds funny to me.

There's this....

I'm actually unvoting sorsha and changing my vote to MattF. Something about him is not what it seems my friends. And I aim to get to the bottom of it.

I don't get why you've switched from Sorsha, at one point saying you wont switch for anything less than someone saying "i am scum", to Matt F because of a few "pings". This is a significant bandwagon.

And finally, this post sounds like baddie bitter about Golden being outed.

Something about Sorshas posts just read genuine to me. I'll be surprised if she flips bad.

I uninured agree. I unwarmed don't me in charge buddy! be very surprised.

I agree with golden. He is the best townie in the world after all.

I feel pretty darn bad about Mac now. Probably too late for today, but very worth a look tomorrow.

Epi had made one post at exactly 6:00pm that day lightly chiding Mac for his stance on lynching townies. However, he stopped well short of actually accusing him of anything.

Spoiler: show

I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.

Lynching someone just for clues instead of lynching Mafia which would most likely skip the Night phase and thus prevent two kills?

No thanks.

He then went on to talk about other things, and made 13 other posts before finally posting this actual suspicion of Mac at 9:29pm, nearly an hour and a half after me. (Had to unspoiled the interior of this because apparently you can't embed spoilers within spoilers.)

Spoiler: show

Actually I can get it.

Relationship between MacDougall and Long Con:

Bea has opinions about who is Civvie, but none about who is bad. A Mafia member knows every Civvie out there, so can proclaim their trust with confidence. I think bea is Mafia, and I'm going to put my vote on her for now.

*votes bea*

This post set off scumdar pretty bad. It reads tactical, mindful ... I don't like it. No other posts in Long Con's ISO trouble me. It just seems like a nervous first major action.

MacAttack right off the bat. Good look, not just because it's anti-LC but because this is the kind of thing that helped to force LC to pretend it was ruse.

Here we have MacDougall and LC literally discussing the Nothing but Flowers role in the thread.

Mac brought the role up, and LC couldn't resist the urge to comment. Do I think two mafia team mates were chatting the day away about one of their own roles publicly in the thread? I absolutely don't. Towniest look of any analysis I've done so far, congratulations Mac.

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form.

Spoiler: show

I'm used to an unchangeable vote mentality for the most part. I'll put a vote on Macdougal for the reasons I gave earlier.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

~~~

Mac looks like a townie and y'all should do what he says.

You asked for a second opinion. So here goes.

To your first spoiler tagged entry: Why did MacDougall choose to gun for that particular vote? There were a lot of shitty votes Day 1, as there always are, and Long Con struck me as genuine (and you have Black Rock here verifying that I usually view LC as bad, which is true). Why call him out on that?

I don't know why it never occurred to me before, but I want to go back to Breaking Bad Mafia on RM. Sorsha was bad with then, weren't your Sorsha? Aw, wait, you're dead because people don't listen to sense.

In that game, I was Gus Fring, and my vote was worth a shit ton. While that sort of thing sounds good, it's very hard to hide. I chose to be blatant about it, breaking ties and what not and rubbing it in people's faces. I lasted quite a while.

Long Con was in that game, and he hunted my role hard. It was an exhausting exercise, and I think it's one he didn't look forward to in particular.

Suppose then, that LC decides to have this fake case on a civilian to "test reactions" and get somebody else on his team to call him out on it. They duke it out in the thread, and the plan is to lynch LC, who, let's face it, would be caught eventually anyway (seriously folks, giving Mafia +vote roles only outs them in the long run- it's bad game design). LC gets lynched, and the one who called him out on his gambit gets credit for it.

With a team of seven, it's the kind of thing I'd go for.

The fact that you, 3J, were blind to this possibility concerns me.

MacDougall has gone from gung-ho against Mafia to wanting to lynch civilians to give us fucking breadcrumbs. Fuck breadcrumbs.

I also want to point out that, in the second spoiler tag, 3J highlights "I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM" which directs attention from the rest of the post:

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

3J took this post, highlighted a side note about Long Con, when the overall conversation here was about seaside. Then 3J talked Mac up, saying, "Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form. "

Old form...over a defensive post? Is he usually defensive?

And what happened to lynching seaside for breadcrumbs?

Finally, on this point, tt's worth pointing out that Sorsha, a civilian, suspected Mac.

Mmm...breadcrumbs indeed.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

Raise your hand if you think LC casts OMGUS votes on civilians.

Now raise your hand if you think LC knew what he was about when he did it.

I think this needed to be made obvious, because it's just false and it's confusing other people. (Matt F, for example, actually corrected Epi earlier, saying he wasn't the only one to post a Mac case. However, he neglected to mention that Epi wasn't even first to the scene I believe this is because of Epi's overdone claims.) Epi is jumping at every chance to take credit for this, and I think it's giving people way more of a positive read on him than he deserves to get for his Mac stance.

Linki: Elo, fair enough. JJJ, do you have numbers on how many times he's been bad? If he's 4/4 on teammate votes Day 1, that's damn compelling. If he's 4/20, not so much.

You feel pretty darn bad about Mac. Super. Not enough to make a vote him Day 5:

(Honestly though I don't find this Epi-Mac discussion to be super valuable, so I don't feel awful interrupting it.)

For now I'm throwing a vote on espers. As someone else pointed out, he's basically like recent Diiny, except all game, and he's been after me for no reason, which I don't like. I would not be opposed to lynching him, but I think it's unlikely for today. I probably will switch before Day's end. Possibly to Mac, who I'm thinking about a lot, or maybe to Epi or fingers.

espers
8
Russtifinko (18), motel room (20), JaggedJimmyJay (22), RadicalFuzz (23), Metalmarsh89 (30), Diiny (31), Ricochet (32), Matt F (34) 24%
fingersplints

MacDougall
2
Elohcin (19), Epignosis (21) 6%

And "lightly chiding" is not how I would characterize my post against MacDougall. I call it getting my hands dirty and doing the dirty work. Nice spin, though.

[DrWilgy]

Voting Sig for Fuzz's sake.

Didn't you just say that RadicalFuzz is objectively a solid mafia read?

Fuzz answered a question from previous that makes me believe he is a valuable comrade. The chance of him lying is there, but it is unlikely.

[Diiny]

I am more confident that Fuzz is scum than I am that sig is after reading his case and mulling it over.

[Russtifinko]

Over 2/3 of sig's input came before Day 4. Beyond that I like what I see, though. I may be biased here, because he suspects motel room like me, but there you have it. Don't really understand why the dude has 5 votes.

RadicalFuzz I get more. He has looked pretty scummy. Almost too scummy, as Epi was saying with obvious choices before (although that was with JJJ, who arguably looks even scummier). I've thought his posts have been fairly useful, though.

Fuzz and Wilgy, you guys should switch to motel room. We can still put him in the lead, and I think he looks way worse than either of the current candidates.

Linki: Epi, regardless, facts are facts. I got there first; stop saying you did.

We can argue about how to interpret your first post to Mac, there, but I challenge you to get one person in thread to agree that was a suspicion and not simple disapproval.

[Russtifinko]

Diiny, have you read motel room lately? Thoughts on him?

[Epignosis]

Linki: Epi, regardless, facts are facts. I got there first; stop saying you did.

I didn't say I got there first. I said I got the job done.

[Marmot]

We can argue about how to interpret your first post to Mac, there, but I challenge you to get one person in thread to agree that was a suspicion and not simple disapproval.

I'm with stupid Epignosis.

[Diiny]

Diiny, have you read motel room lately? Thoughts on him?

No, I'll give him a cheeky iso. What are your concerns?

[Marmot]

Russ, if you had to pick between RadicalFuzz or sig to vote, who would you pick?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm still at work. The time change this week is an issue, I might not be home until after the deadline. I think Fuzz and sig both make good lynch candidates.

[Diiny]

I'd appreciate linx to existing cases too

[Epignosis]

Nobody wants to lynch Bullzeye?

[Russtifinko]

We can argue about how to interpret your first post to Mac, there, but I challenge you to get one person in thread to agree that was a suspicion and not simple disapproval.

I'm with stupid Epignosis.

You really are a troll, after all.

Diiny, have you read motel room lately? Thoughts on him?

No, I'll give him a cheeky iso. What are your concerns?

He said lynching civs is ok because then you can stop talking about lynching said civs.

Russ, if you had to pick between RadicalFuzz or sig to vote, who would you pick?

Of the two, RadicalFuzz. However, that's pretty far-fetched. I don't like the lynch on either.

Linki: Epi, regardless, facts are facts. I got there first; stop saying you did.

I didn't say I got there first. I said I got the job done.

Also false, though. I cast the last vote on Mac, and he "won" the lynch 7-6. Stop trying to take sole credit when numerous other people contributed. It makes you look far more civ than you deserve to.

You, can't ever be wrong, can you? It's a pretty unfortunate trait.

[Russtifinko]

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 88#p188088
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 34#p188134

Link'd.

[Marmot]

I'm voting Bullzeye for right now.

I'm reading your Bullzeye post now.

How about RadicalFuzz?

Linki: Russ, I didn't intend to call Epignosis stupid. I was taking a popular idiom and inserting Epignosis's name into it.

[Marmot]

I'm voting Bullzeye for right now.

I'm reading your Bullzeye post now.

How about RadicalFuzz?

Linki: Russ, I didn't intend to call Epignosis stupid. I was taking a popular idiom and inserting Epignosis's name into it.

And by "into it", I meant "in place of the crossed off word".

[Epignosis]

Linki: Epi, regardless, facts are facts. I got there first; stop saying you did.

I didn't say I got there first. I said I got the job done.

Also false, though. I cast the last vote on Mac, and he "won" the lynch 7-6. Stop trying to take sole credit when numerous other people contributed. It makes you look far more civ than you deserve to.

You, can't ever be wrong, can you? It's a pretty unfortunate trait.

I'm not wrong.

Stop saying things that aren't true and spinning the narrative. I'm the one who engaged MacDougall head to head. I'm the one he accused of being the serial killer. Day 6, you said this:

Placeholder on BR for now. Could be convinced to go with Mac today, or, to a lesser extent, Epi.

You needed convincing, which means you weren't convinced at that point. And you could have voted for me if the train was big enough. Don't come up in my house telling me you saw him first. "Saw him first" doesn't mean diddly shit in my house.