[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#351

So like, can we lynch Long Con or...

#352

Cobalt wrote:So like, can we lynch Long Con or...

You seem keen to settle on a lynch very early in the day. What about all the other players in the game?

#353

@ Cobalt: You also never answered my question about Gumshoe last night.

#354

Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:So like, can we lynch Long Con or...
You seem keen to settle on a lynch very early in the day. What about all the other players in the game?

I want my salty revenge and I think he's scummy again.

Sloonei wrote:@ Cobalt: You also never answered my question about Gumshoe last night.

I think it got lost in my drafts. Hold on.

#355

Fair deal. I'm excited to meet a player who makes drafts of posts

#356

Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:He didn't so much as defend me as he pointed out that my logic wasn't flawed like MP seemed to be trying to make it appear. I didn't really think much of it but I appreciated the validation.

Anyone wanna pick my brain while I'm around for a few hours?
You've now offered a seeming defense of Gumshoe in return. Interesting.
I'm not so much interested in the specifics of the exchange, more so that it happened. Although, in that context, what Gumsho said was absolutely a defense of you.
I tend not to wallflower when I'm being spoken about and I address the situation directly if I'm involved in it.

Interesting.

COBALT: (Dramatic eye roll, exit DSL)
What do you, Cobalt, think of Gumshoe right now? Do you feel he was defending you, even if it wasn't a delberate defense? Why/why not?

LIke I said, he wasn't so much defending me as pointing out to MP that my logic was actually solid considering I have no idea what the playerbase is like here, there's bound to be some overlap between my own scum strategies and those of players on here. Therefore, things I do when I'm scum can be seen as scummy when I look at them in other people.

MP was trying to say that was flimsy logic, that just because I did it doesn't mean everyone else will. Which is true, but he failed to consider the fact that I don't know the playing field and that there's only so many strategies one can apply as scum. I'm sure someone here will use something I've used at some point, and that's what I was pointing out in Devin.

So Gumshoe pointing that out was only serving to land my point. It wasn't exactly a defense, but call it what you want. Like I said, I appreciated the validation.

Doesn't mean he's clear in my book by any means.

#357

Sloonei wrote:Fair deal. I'm excited to meet a player who makes drafts of posts

In my home forum I'm usually the top poster in the thread, and a lot of new posts tend to happen while I'm writing a big one so I always make sure I draft it in a new tab and then preview it otherwise I'll miss something. Just a habit I got into.

#358

Cobalt wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:He didn't so much as defend me as he pointed out that my logic wasn't flawed like MP seemed to be trying to make it appear. I didn't really think much of it but I appreciated the validation.

Anyone wanna pick my brain while I'm around for a few hours?
You've now offered a seeming defense of Gumshoe in return. Interesting.
I'm not so much interested in the specifics of the exchange, more so that it happened. Although, in that context, what Gumsho said was absolutely a defense of you.
I tend not to wallflower when I'm being spoken about and I address the situation directly if I'm involved in it.

Interesting.

COBALT: (Dramatic eye roll, exit DSL)
What do you, Cobalt, think of Gumshoe right now? Do you feel he was defending you, even if it wasn't a delberate defense? Why/why not?
LIke I said, he wasn't so much defending me as pointing out to MP that my logic was actually solid considering I have no idea what the playerbase is like here, there's bound to be some overlap between my own scum strategies and those of players on here. Therefore, things I do when I'm scum can be seen as scummy when I look at them in other people.

MP was trying to say that was flimsy logic, that just because I did it doesn't mean everyone else will. Which is true, but he failed to consider the fact that I don't know the playing field and that there's only so many strategies one can apply as scum. I'm sure someone here will use something I've used at some point, and that's what I was pointing out in Devin.

So Gumshoe pointing that out was only serving to land my point. It wasn't exactly a defense, but call it what you want. Like I said, I appreciated the validation.

Doesn't mean he's clear in my book by any means.

I think the only difference between my assessment of this post and yours is that I have no trouble defining it as a defense of you. Everything you just said describes Gumshoe coming to your side in an argument. It's not something I can clearly define yet, but I did not want to lose the train of thought in the early game shuffle.

#359

Guys, I might be brainfarting here, is there a quick way to see a list of every post a user has made in this thread that I'm missing? I clicked on the number of replies in the The Current Job #2 section and it showed me how many posts each player made but I couldn't go to a page to see each post.

#360

Gumshoe wrote:Guys, I might be brainfarting here, is there a quick way to see a list of every post a user has made in this thread that I'm missing? I clicked on the number of replies in the The Current Job #2 section and it showed me how many posts each player made but I couldn't go to a page to see each post.

Under the avatar. It says Posts (All / In Thread) Click In-Thread.

#361

XthAtGAm3RGuYX wrote:It also doesn't help that in 90% of the games I play I can't help but see most day 1 talk as baseless banter. Game doesn't really start until day 2 for me.

I understand this as a principle, but surely you wouldn't say that applies to this game?

#362

Thank you.

#363

My PM was full of stuff about stopping time, a second day will follow, and a lot of conditional stuff about 'if lynched' or 'if they die'. And something about a song cycle.

I wonder if the one mentioning all the independents, the 3/4 was not a waltz but actually something about 3/4 independents surviving.

I've tried looking at every second word, every third word etc, or trying to mesh sentences together, but it doesn't really work. I've tried applying the number 17 (my number) to it, but can't find any relevance. Has anyone been able to find any relevance from their number?

#364

Also, is it just me, or is it really quiet. Where are people like MP and SVS. Did certain numbers silence people? It feels odd that some people are not posting at all that are not exactly known for restraint.

#365

Golden wrote:My PM was full of stuff about stopping time, a second day will follow, and a lot of conditional stuff about 'if lynched' or 'if they die'. And something about a song cycle.

+1

I was interpreting this as the anti-Joshua. Lynch him and you get another day.

#366

Thats how I interpret it too, Epi. 17th role would be in the civilians, but it sounds to me like I've landed a baddie role description. Although possibly, since they might 'stop time', it's actually a civilian who can stop a lynch (and go straight into a second day) and if they are lynched you go into the second day as well.

#367

Golden wrote:Thats how I interpret it too, Epi. 17th role would be in the civilians, but it sounds to me like I've landed a baddie role description. Although possibly, since they might 'stop time', it's actually a civilian who can stop a lynch (and go straight into a second day) and if they are lynched you go into the second day as well.

I picked five, so I don't think you can go by the numbers to figure out an alignment.

#368

No worries, DDL. It'll be great to play another game with you, whenever you have more time. I can relate to your situation, especially since I'm in a game over on RYM at the moment as well, all the while RL is demanding much of my time. Juggling multiple games is definitely an art. And welcome, Canuck! It will be great to play with you again.

On the topic of RL, please note the following, as it will have an impact on my behavior this game. I'm leaving for Cincinnati tomorrow until Sunday mostly to take care of wedding planning, and it will be a SUPER tight schedule. I will literally only have time for wedding stuff and a little bit of time with my family and that's it. I really wish I could even make a little bit of time to see friends, since I haven't seen any since Christmas, but I can't. After I return, I have a very busy month ahead of me with wedding planning (wedding is August 8th) as well as PhD work: (1) juggling my independent research project, (2) my replication (yes, Epi, Choi et al 2010 the auditing one, not the Biology one) and first year paper, (3) my teaching prep class seminar (in which I fully prepare for the Principles of Accounting I class I'm teaching in the Fall, as well as read two books, and various other activities), and (4) research assistant work (this is stuff I get paid my stipend to do, so I can't ignore it). This already is 50+ hours a week, but will increasingly become more demanding as I get into July. I've also already spent too much time procrastinating some of it, thanks to mafia. See: Economics mostly, but also Biblical and The Flash (briefly). Consequently, my mafia game, which is often defined by a high volume of posts, will be affected this game. I will be much more likely to pop in less frequently, which will increase my already notoriously long posts probably much more so, and make my style seem more like a cross of Blooper-esque, Epi-esque, and MP-esque, rather than straight-up MP-esque combination of frequency and volume. Please read my posts anyway, if you are so inclined, and I will try my absolute hardest to put as much effort into this game as I can, since it will probably be my last for a couple of months.

I will be taking full advantage of spoiler tags just to keep my post from being insanely long as I'm often notorious for. That is not a license to skim over my post. I hope it means that it actually increases the likelihood of being read.

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1) The 'Voting for New Players' Gambit

Full disclosure, I never actually intended on giving new players a "free pass" this game. I was hoping it would garner discussion, hence why I wouldn't answer Epi's question about my change in opinion, since my opinion never really changed 180 degrees.

Noting that DDL, Epi, Golden, and Sloonei were playing this game, all of whom played Economics, I was hoping someone would note a slight change in my opinion from Economics, and that it would make my drastic shift in opinion seem more believable. Here is the post from Economics that DDL was probably thinking of:

Spoiler: show

I specifically was looking for reactions from Epi and S~V~S, since those are two players I consistently have a difficult time reading, especially early on in games, and, more significantly, those are two players which consistently have had strong opinions on both sides of the issue, and as a result I felt they were the two (perhaps besides DDL, Golden, etc.) most likely engage with me regarding it. I received the reaction I was anticipating from Epi, and his interaction with me made me feel good about him (I'll elaborate more in a second here), hence why Epi was declared a very slight civilian read. I'm not sure if I received the full extent of a reaction I was anticipating from S~V~S (again, will elaborate).

+++++++++++++

1a) Why did Epi's reaction make me feel good about him from a vibes-based standpoint?

People keep saying this is 'standard Epi', and while that is largely true, I do feel that people (whether civilian or mafia) are parroting this non-opinion of him to make it seem as though they have something to say. Personally, I have something by which to issue at least some opinion of Epi, hence why he made a color in my rainbow. A few players have speculated how I have been able to do that. I will explain that now. I did and still do feel good about the way he handled my situation, and I will not be voting for him today. Here's why:

Spoiler: show

While I would expect Epi to respond with content like this regardless of alignment, I was glad to see the bolded and underlined sentiment. He was able to suss out the awkwardness of my statements, purposefully placed there; I was hoping he would. Instead of grilling me, it seems Epi is perplexed, and sees a possible nefarious reason for me to drop that sentiment. While this content still makes it difficult to assess alignment, since Epi has been inquisitive as either alignment, as well as balls-to-the-wall aggressive as either alignment, I can at least say it appears to me he is genuinely intrigued regarding my 180. No vibe points one way or the other just yet, but in combination with subsequent posts, this does assist my decision to issue an opinion of him.

Spoiler: show

Null read still. This sentiment does jive with his recent attitude that his experimental flirtation with probability-focused scum hunting had received little serious weight from most other players at this site in recent games (i.e., Death Note).

Spoiler: show

First statement is WIFOM, null read from that. Second statement is an issuance of fact very in line with what I would expect him to say. The question at the end gives me a slightly civilian read, since he still seems genuinely intrigued as to why I changed my mind.

This is detective Epi, not reaction baiting Epi. Again, I realize that detective Epi can be civilian or mafia, and so can reaction baiting Epi (see Economics where I mistakenly thought reaction baiting Epi was mafia, when he wasn't).

Spoiler: show

This is where I really could leave the live interaction with Epi and issue a statement on his alignment one way or the other, even if very slight. Instead of opting to aggressively pursue me further after my cryptic answer, he drops the issue completely. This indicated to me that Epi no longer had reason to believe pursuing this was worth his time.

Seeing as though we're dealing with detective Epi, since his behavior regarding Long Con, S~V~S, and practically the entire game can still be characterized as such, I felt and still feel comfortable in issuing Epi's hunting is coming from a genuine civilian-oriented mindset. Absolutely nothing about the way he handled the situation led me to see anything nefarious, in real time.

I recognize fully the amazing mafia capabilities of Epi, hence why my opinion is very slight. It could very well change at any time, in either direction. But it is an opinion nonetheless. And all of that said, I have played quite a number of games with Epi now, and while he is a very, very good player, he isn't perfect. I wanted to specifically set up a situation early on where I could interact with him in real time. I believe Epi has been putting forth a genuinely-seeming effort to baddie hunt and that his posts in live time interaction with me hold up to scrutiny. Could he have been genuinely interested as a mafia member? Sure. Could he be faking his baddie hunt? Easily. Of course, I still can't tell. I wanted to get discussion going, however, specifically from two players I have a hard time reading, and as Gumshoe noted, mafia is all about making assessments on other players, whether right or wrong. So I've made an assessment.

+++++++++++++

1b) Why did S~V~S's reaction not match with what I anticipated?

I believe the way S~V~S handled the situation is most interesting.

To clarify for those who may not know, but S~V~S and I have a long and complicated (and lovely) mafia history, since we've played together for the past 5 years. She fooled me hard a few of the first handful of times we interacted, so I subsequently viewed her actions in many games we played thereafter with heavy scrutiny. We also tend to approach the game from opposite perspectives consistently, hence why it surprises me not at all that she hates rainbow lists, since I love them. For the longest time, I tunneled her game after game, sometimes opportunistically (as a mafia) and other times genuinely (as a civilian). After being consistently incorrect, especially as the latter, I have tried keeping that in mind in subsequent reassessments of her game, being much more cautious in my opinions of her. Lately, in reapproaching the game after Champs and playing at other sites again (most notably, RYM), I've been revamping my style, and I've been able to play with S~V~S in successfully call her out in a recent game (Biblical). Whether it was for the right reasons or not, she will contest, and I will recognize her objections.

That all may seem meaningless to many of you, but I'm willing to start a completely new leaf with S~V~S, and I'm going to try my absolute best not to tunnel her but not to ignore any assessment of her I do develop, just because I've been wrong many times before.

Here is how she responded:

Spoiler: show

Unfortunately, she did not respond to my set of statements in real time, but it's very likely that she was at work, especially since this post seems to jive with what I know from her in RL in that it appears to be a phone post from work. Nonetheless, it's still a post, and still needs to be dissected.

Say what you will about 'interesting'. I tend to agree with Sloonei that it is a word that many of us use regardless of alignment, but all the while noting that it can be utilized (and has been, I've seen it, and I've done it) by mafia in order to seem as though they're contributing:

What really gets me about this post and her subsequent posts thereafter is she never once acknowledges my 180. She did not play Economics so she would have been unaware that I even changed my mind in the slightest, or so I would assume.

I mean, look at this:

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Gumshoe & I both used the word "Interesting" as well.

I can't speak for LC or Gumshoe, but I thought todays discussion WAS interesting. You did not find it so, Epi? Out of all that discussion the only thing that caught your eye was one word?
Not really, no.

What of the discussion was interesting to you? You used the word, but you didn't say how. You said you looked forward to rereading it, but you haven't done so. Instead, you are focusing on me.

My issue is not that people use the word, but that they don't explain. If you call something interesting, then say why. Otherwise, you are talking and not saying anything. If I say "S~V~S is suspicious," what you are going to do?

You're going to ask "Why?"

This is no different.

You posted a picture of llama's avatar, and now you're questioning me. This tells me nothing about what you found interesting before 4pm EST today. It leads me to believe you didn't really find anything interesting at all.

S~V~S wrote:This feels somewhat distractionary to me.
Oh here we are again. What am I distracting people from now? Not posting? Pizza Hut commercials?

S~V~S wrote:Either you don't want people to talk about the other discussion today, or maybe you're doing some rather fancy distancing with LC, since it is unlikely that he is going to get lynched over "interesting". Or maybe you are just doing some standard issue Epi mind games and intentionally enigmatic crap. Not sure which, maybe all, maybe none.
You've just named every possibility and then conceded there are other possibilities.

You speak, yet say nothing.

You are on my suspect list.

++++

nutella wrote:Epi, I disagree with your criticisms. True, "interesting" is kind of a vacuous term but I and others use it all the time. And I also say things like "I don't know what to think about [whatever interaction has been going on in the thread]" because I feel like such interactions merit acknowledgment/I feel like I have to comment on them regardless of my alignment.
So I'm right, but it's okay when you do it?
I reread it, and I still find it interesting. I want to see where it goes, and tbh, I found you jumping on a word to be MORE interesting. Which was why that was what I chose to comment on.

Which was perhaps your intention

And I am sure I will lay awake all night in fear at being on your suspect list.

She says "I reread it, and I still find it interesting. I want to see where it goes..." Still she said nothing about my 180.

I'm not really sure what to make of this, but it's not at all what I expected. Given our history of consistently disagreeing in thread, ESPECIALLY about this issue, I fully anticipated her to at least recognize my viewpoint or inquire about it or at least second Epi's inquiry as to why I have changed my mind, since I came around to the argument that she was unarguably the biggest proponent of. Even if she were either alignment, I expected SOMETHING.

But she acknowledged nothing of it. She never once even has acknowledged me, my rainbow reads, or anything about me. I find it very odd.

You know what's even more odd? She never once acknowledges any of it, but here she asks Golden what he thinks of me:

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.
I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.

Golden wrote:Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

And did you?

It reminds me of Epi in almost every game I have ever played with him, good or bad, with his cryptic Day One (or Zero as the case may be) gambits & mind games. Yoni, as TGG told me it was called (repeatedly ) during Biblical.

Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.
Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe? His back & forth with MP? His vaguely sneering tone? If you are getting a civvie vibe from him, what do you think of MP?

I have not made my mind up on Epi, but I gotta say (and he knows it) that I loathe his fishing expeditions, the way he throws fake suspicions out early in the game to gauge reactions, then drops them after Day One.

And I don't like Rainbow lists, I don't like ANY lists this early in the game, especially with 2 mafias. With one mafia, the baddies already know who is who, or more precisely, who is a civ. Two mafias complicates things, and lists naming who people trust help the baddies at this stage; I will be happy to list those I don't trust, but not those that I do. And if I am alive to make a list later in the game, it will be not be a rainbow. We had a discussion about Rainbow lists in the mod forum, which prompted me to find my new nifty grey rainbow avatar. And I will look askew at those who use list posting as a litmus test.

If this is Day Zero Day One should be fabulous

What do you all think of this?***

S~V~S's behavior has given me GTH mafia vibes, rather than civilian ones. I don't see any genuine mafia hunting from her. In fact, she has the highest propensity to receive my vote at the moment. I will elaborate more later. ***But I want to hear what others think of my thoughts here in 1b in the meantime, please and thank you.

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2) Responses to Others' Posts (except Cobalt)

If you see your name underlined and bolded, it is addressed to YOU.

I hope DDL (well, I guess I missed that one, sorry buddy), Bass, and any others who were wondering what was going on with me re: 1) are satisfied. Consequently, I will not waste time responding to their posts if I feel the answers to their questions would have been answered in 1). If not, I will be happy to respond to any posts hereafter that are directed at me.

Spoiler: show

Devin, I will address this in my response to Cobalt. If you're curious what I think of Cobalt, note that I had him as my sole very slight mafia read in my rainbow list the last time I was in the thread, as well as my response to him. It will be in section 3). If you still have additional questions on this (or any other) matter, I'll address them subsequently.

Spoiler: show

Blooper, you note in this post multiple "truces", but ask the question whether there is just one thereafter. Devin and I never agreed to a truce. Just wanted to clear that up.

You specifically note you have "no strong opinions". If that is the case, do you have weak opinions? If so, what are they?

Spoiler: show

sig, I was not at all implying your question was not a good one or that it is worthless. If you got that impression, then that is my fault for making my tone seemingly imply as such.

Yes, I've been in many mafia games like that as well, and I figured that was your intention, but I wanted to hear your explanation.

You say it is always good to know ahead of time, sure. Answer this question for me: Do you think it is humanly possible for me to list of every instance of meta regarding every player on this site that you would need to know ahead of time so that you can make assessments with the same basis of knowledge as I have?

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:***I would like to avoid voting a player completely new to The Syndicate on Day 1. I used to very vocally oppose those who took this view, but I have recently come around to this line of thinking. I do think it would suck to come to a new site and get lynched Day 1 your first game, so newbies will get a "free pass" from me, but only from my vote (not any suspicion I have), and if they are my top suspect going into Day 2, I will not hesitate to vote for a newbie.
Why? What changed your mind, that you should "very vocally oppose those who took this view" to "recently come around to this line of thinking?"

MovingPictures07 wrote:What likelihood would you give to this being the case in this game?

Epignosis wrote:I'll answer that question as soon as you point me to a single instance when probability ever did anything for me.

MovingPictures07 wrote:How about a different question:

If you had to choose, instinctively, do you believe my set of statements is due to the fact that I am indeed mafia with a new player on my team or due to some other reason?

Epignosis wrote:Is there a reason you're not forthcoming about my initial question?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Perhaps.

Epignosis wrote:OK then.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Newbie to the site. And I agree with you there. But no more than Day 1 or 2. It should give us enough time to get to know the new player while giving us a chance to feel out everyone else.
Gun to head read (if you have to pick immediately), civilian or mafia, for Epignosis, me, and sig. Go.

Epignosis wrote:I'm telling you up front I ain't answering any of this GTH bullshit.

And I ain't doing any ISOs.

And I damn sure ain't doing no rainbows reads. I've got Reading Rainbow, and that's enough rainbow reading for me.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Fair enough, of course, you're free to play however you want.
.... That's a shoving match if I ever saw one. Would you prefer pissing contest? I was never that fond of that one... and it's only chicks that say they're "going to go and get a ruler", so I didn't want to use those euphamisms. Shoving match.

Long Con, you say this is a shoving match or pissing contest. Can you elaborate? Why do you characterize my posts, which were trying to garner discussion, as both a shoving match and "good to see"? I'm not sure how to reconcile those two separate thoughts.

Spoiler: show

I do.

Regarding rainbow lists and such, I loved the technicolor lists from Biblical, and I even more love rainbow lists. That's just me. I don't get the hate at all. Nonetheless, regarding the requests from others, I will try to make my posts as easily readable as possible.

Golden, what are your thoughts? Suspects? Town reads? You have an impressive mafia brain, so don't mind while I stand here and pick it. I noted that you suspect S~V~S. Will you vote for her today? I noted you also have civ vibes from Epi and Gumshoe. What do you think of my observations above? Perhaps it would be best if you could build a spoilerized rainbow list of your current reads on everyone... if you feel so inclined.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei, Golden does aggressively pursue suspects on Day 0, from what I have seen. I also have been known to engage in it somewhat, as well as Epi, if something catches my or his eye, respectively. FZ. would do so as well, but she isn't playing this game. For most players, Day 0 is not such a hunting period, almost all of the time.

Spoiler: show

Hello, Gumshoe, mafia soulmate.

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3) Responses to Cobalt

Spoiler: show

Cobalt, I had to split up your post here into parts due to formatting reasons.

Response to first quote: Regarding 1., fair enough. What do you make of my opinion of him? Regarding 2., noted. However, can you see why the purpose of your statement can be seen as perhaps nefarious? So you're good, you didn't think that anyone else here is either? I could sit here and brag about my accomplishments, and so could many others, but none of us did so. So what was the real purpose of your statement? You say it was to say what you said in 2., but if that was the case, why not just say exactly what you said in 2.? I suppose I just don't understand your train of thought fully behind this.

Response to second quote: Can you elaborate in any way? Do you still feel this way after this post? If yes or no, why? Is there anything you want me to address?

Response to third quote: Noted. How do you think you would have reacted if it was a slight mafia read, moderate mafia read, or worse?

One last question: Can you fully elaborate your read on Long Con, please?

Thanks!

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4) General Observations

Spoiler: show

Note that DDL had no opinion of S~V~S. This could be relevant later, since S~V~S is currently a hot topic.

Spoiler: show

Also note that Turnip has no read on S~V~S.

Spoiler: show

Note that this forum does not like spoilers within spoilers, so I couldn't spoilerquote Turnip's case on Hedgeowl. His case can be found here.

Regarding Hedgeowl, I note you have many valid observations here, which do affect my view of her, but note my hesitation to commit to more than a 'very slight' read of her because:
1) She hasn't played mafia consistently in a while.
2) Her last few games she has been less active, I presume due to RL.
3) I have seen her as a civilian slow to commit to game-related talk early in games.

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5) More on S~V~S

Spoiler: show

Golden wrote:As for the rest of this post. It really makes me only feel worse about SVS. Responses in pink

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.
I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.

Are you trying to suggest that you did not know you used the word interesting when you made that search? Then why did you make it? Isn't it a slightly odd thing to do to make a search of who used the word 'interesting'? Normally, if you disagreed with a word being suspicious, you would just say that - you wouldn't do a search. So we honest - did you remember you used it, or didn't you?

Golden wrote:Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

And did you?

Not relevant. When I said I got civ vibes from epi, I also said I didn't agree with his case on LC. It's about tone and approach, and this looks different to the way I'm used to epi questioning people.

It reminds me of Epi in almost every game I have ever played with him, good or bad, with his cryptic Day One (or Zero as the case may be) gambits & mind games. Yoni, as TGG told me it was called (repeatedly ) during Biblical.

You don't have to get civ vibes from epi - doesn't mean I can't.

Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.
Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe? His back & forth with MP? His vaguely sneering tone? If you are getting a civvie vibe from him, what do you think of MP?

I have no read on MP. Nothing Epi did on MP had any relevance to me saying I got civ vibes from Epi, which given my timing on saying it (coming right after his case on LC) I think you know very well.

I have not made my mind up on Epi, but I gotta say (and he knows it) that I loathe his fishing expeditions, the way he throws fake suspicions out early in the game to gauge reactions, then drops them after Day One.

We don't know epi is going to drop anything after day 1 since it's still day 0.

And I don't like Rainbow lists, I don't like ANY lists this early in the game, especially with 2 mafias. With one mafia, the baddies already know who is who, or more precisely, who is a civ. Two mafias complicates things, and lists naming who people trust help the baddies at this stage; I will be happy to list those I don't trust, but not those that I do. And if I am alive to make a list later in the game, it will be not be a rainbow. We had a discussion about Rainbow lists in the mod forum, which prompted me to find my new nifty grey rainbow avatar. And I will look askew at those who use list posting as a litmus test.

I can appreciate that perspective. I took the same one into economics, and I got grumpy with people for wanting me to reveal too much of my thinking too early. I'm certainly not going to be making rainbow lists at an early stage in this game. BUT I'll consider making them later, and I don't begrudge those who do for making them.

If this is Day Zero Day One should be fabulous
All up - this post is exactly the kind of thing I expect from you if you are bad - you are throwing out generalisations to discredit epi, stuff like suggesting he will drop the suspicion after day 1. People who don't know epi, by the way, are picking up on this and it's making them think twice about epi. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, but certainly it's bad if people are only thinking you are bad because epi told them to...

For me there are two separate things in play. One is the case on SVS. One is Epi's alignment. I don't think you are bad because I think epi is civ. I think you are bad because I think your own posts make you look that way.

I find Golden's observations here valid and I agree with them.

Spoiler: show

I don't like this defense by S~V~S at all. It's not even a defense, really, it's shrugging off posts by Epi, where he already has been saying why he thinks she's bad. Instead of responding to those, S~V~S tries to flip it around on Epi here.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:That is an inordinately high number of suspicions to develop in such an early phase of the game. I've never played with SVS before and do not know anything about their usual playstyle, so I do not know quite what to make of all this yet. But I've found this Day 0 to be pretty interesting.
To be fair to S~V~S, only a couple of those items could be construed as "suspicions." I do try to keep things fresh (for myself at least) whenever a new game starts, and that has led to me using tactics and techniques that may seem unorthodox. That much is true.

But what doesn't smell right is this: If my Day 0 suspicions aren't genuine (i.e., mind games, fishing expeditions, cryptic gambits), then why does she feel the need to say the following?

S~V~S wrote:I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.
This implies that I *could* lead a lynch against someone for using a common word, and that S~V~S believes that if I campaign against people using that word (I'm not, because that's a terrible simplification of my Long Con suspicion), I'll eventually get to her, as though I am capable of directing the thread as some rhetorical Pantokrator...

...yet...

S~V~S wrote:This feels somewhat distractionary to me. Either you don't want people to talk about the other discussion today, or maybe you're doing some rather fancy distancing with LC, since it is unlikely that he is going to get lynched over "interesting". Or maybe you are just doing some standard issue Epi mind games and intentionally enigmatic crap. Not sure which, maybe all, maybe none.
Despite implying that I could lynch all the people who had (up to that point) used the word "interesting," S~V~S says that it's unlikely Long Con will get lynched over "interesting."

So either I am serious about my suspicions but feeble to do anything about them, or I am faking my suspicions and S~V~S fears she will be on a list of people taken out by them.

These two ideas are not compatible.

I would like to hear elaboration from S~V~S on this issue, since I agree that the ideas are not compatible.

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6) Updated Rainbow List

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

If any of you want elaboration regarding any number of these reads, please ask.

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Yikes!! This took way too much time. Again, please note my RL restrictions going forward, specifically the fact that I will be out of town Thursday through Sunday. I will try my best to continue contributing nonetheless.

I need to go now, but I'll be back once more just to read and vote, since I have to do homework, clean the apartment, and pack for tomorrow.

Linki w/ Golden: Here I am.

#369

MovingPictures07 wrote: (2) my replication (yes, Epi, Choi et al 2010 the auditing one, not the Biology one)

#370

What was the vibe of your PM, epi?

Also, I'm sorry to see you go DDL, and I'm very pleased to see you arrive canuck.

linki - holy hell. I apologise for saying you were quiet, MP!

#371

Golden wrote:
XthAtGAm3RGuYX wrote:It also doesn't help that in 90% of the games I play I can't help but see most day 1 talk as baseless banter. Game doesn't really start until day 2 for me.
I understand this as a principle, but surely you wouldn't say that applies to this game?

Maybe its because I'm skimming on my breaks at work so I'm moving through kinda fast, but nothing has really caught my eye yet

I might have time to stop up at the college later and steal the internet and ill go back through then.

#372

I'll get to my responses to MP after work tonight. I'm leaving soon.

#373

Golden wrote:What was the vibe of your PM, epi?

Inebriated.

Seriously, I'm good with multiple days. There seems to be more conditional language involved beyond the person getting lynched, however.

#374

Cobalt wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You said you didn't know what to think about it. Why say that? Useless. Form an opinion and then state it when you have one. You had other things to say, but you decided to drop that in there and call it a "shoving match."
Yes, that's what happened. I'm glad that you can play your way and I can play my way. Makes for a richer, more fun game of Mafia. You can stay silent and form opinions and only speak when you have them, that's one way to do things. Another way to do things is to make a comment first and then observe the reactions of those who are commented about. You can learn a lot.
The latter of the strategies listed is precisely why I made that post about my previous game. I wanted to see who reacted to it when and how. But I don't buy that you were doing it either.

This answers one of his questions though.

Long Con said, "Another way to do things is to make a comment first and then observe the reactions of those who are commented about." I did this with myself. I wanted to see who reacted in what way to my discussion of my previous games. Those who fixated on it as a scummy statement were those I was going to be looking at.

I'm gonna be going back and formulating reads on everyone who actually addressed my original post and how it makes me feel about them. I posted it that way for a reason. The way I saw it, the best way to get reads on new people in a new forum was to toot my own horn and see who got their panties in a twist over it.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #375

Well that definitely breaks the record for the longest post I've ever seen.

Cobalt wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Fair deal. I'm excited to meet a player who makes drafts of posts
In my home forum I'm usually the top poster in the thread, and a lot of new posts tend to happen while I'm writing a big one so I always make sure I draft it in a new tab and then preview it otherwise I'll miss something. Just a habit I got into.

This forum has a great feature that shows you what's been posted while you were writing, so if you click submit you can read them and revise before actually submitting. (we say "linki" or "linkitis" in response to such posts -- the term was born at lostpedia)

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:My PM was full of stuff about stopping time, a second day will follow, and a lot of conditional stuff about 'if lynched' or 'if they die'. And something about a song cycle.
+1

I was interpreting this as the anti-Joshua. Lynch him and you get another day.

Interesting.

My pm had something about protecting on odd nights, and something about checking other players.

#376

Let me address my PM real quick. There was something about a surviving win condition, but also about four lyricists (Sondheim, Brown, Schwartz, and Hammerstein) and about finding 3/4 lyricists. So I'm thinking there's a survivor role which needs to find or outlast three of the above listed roles.

#377

Anyway, I'm off to work. Back later.

#378

Epignosis wrote:
DFaraday wrote:Epi is reading as standard throw-everything-at-the-wall Epi to me

I had a brief exchange with MP, went after LC for how he characterized it and construed his purpose in commenting on it, and I'm also suspicious of S~V~S for reasons I gave yesterday.

Is "throw-everything at-the-wall" how you are really reading me?

I would never accuse you of careless gameplay, so I apologize if it read that way. I simply meant that part of your early game approach tends to be to pursue any and every possible avenue in order to get reads and reactions. Thus, I'm not suspicious of your exchanges with any of these people, even though I disagree re: LC.

#379

I don't see SVS as that suspicious what is the argument against him?

I find Epi interesting he or she? is trying to find the mafia, but with two teams he could be mafia hunting in hopes to get rid of the other team, He is leaning as not a mafia for me at the moment, but only slightly.

I have a null read on Gumshoe, I'm unsure off him from his early engagement with Cobalt. But his response to Golden seemed sound.

Sloonie has contributed alot some fluff some not I find it interesting he says he isn't a noob. You would think if he was mafia he would say he was a noob so any slip ups made could be blamed on his newbieness. Are you suspicious of a Gumshoe/Cobalt mafia team or were you just pointing it out in early posts?

I don't like XthAtGAm3RGuYX waiting until day 2 to be serious however, this doesn't mean he is mafia he could just have that play style in general. Though I don't really like this play style it isn't overly suspicious. I haven't seen a reply about how people are circumventing his methods either which I would like to see. His later replays about how his activity seem fine but, he is null at the moment.

Cobalt why do you think LC is suspicious could you summarize that and why you think Epi is clean? Or is this a gutfeeling? I'm also not so sure about the bandwagon Cobalt seems to be pushing. But then again I'm never sure about Cobalt and find him to be scummy alot.

I'm not sure about LC I'm not seeing damning evidence against him, but I don't see him as clean yet either.LC what do you think of Cobalt going after you so much? LC second post about Scotty Independence claiming is interesting, not sure if it is a joke or if he was trying to put attention on Scotty.

Hedgeowl seems interesting he (sorry if I'm not getting gender right please correct me) has posted a few times but nothing really of substance Hedgeowl what do you think of the LC votes?

#380

@MovingPictures Okay I was unsure if you were imply that my question was bad so assumed you thought it was sorry about that. I wasn't expecting every case but some that are recurring for example on GTF Cobalt was usually killed night 1 if he survived people assumed he was mafia and would lynch him. Or on JTM were Alpha (I believe?) went after Radical Fuzz which happened many games. Such things like that was what I meant sorry if I wasn't clear.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #381

SVS she, Epi he, Hedge she,
MP WHY doesn't this forum have a gender pronoun feature on the poster sidebars? Would be great if that could be implemented

#382

MP, I didn't know your dissertation was going to be posted in my game's thread!

#383

sig wrote: Sloonie has contributed alot some fluff some not I find it interesting he says he isn't a noob. You would think if he was mafia he would say he was a noob so any slip ups made could be blamed on his newbieness. Are you suspicious of a Gumshoe/Cobalt mafia team or were you just pointing it out in early posts??

Which of my posts are fluff? And what do you make of the content in my not fluff posts?
Are you saying I should have lied about being a noob for mafia badguy scum related moves? I do not get this line of thought, but I'll say that I've played at least one game with a number of the players in this game, and a lot lot more on another site. But I am still not familiar with more than half the players in this game.

I would not say that I am suspicious of Cobalt and Gumshoe together at this time. Just that I found Gumshoe's Day 0 posts odd for the reasons I already mentioned and am taking note of it. I'm more suspicious of Gumshoe than Cobalt at the moment, if that means anything.

#384

Gumshoe wrote:I'm going to look at the last two pages and see if there's anything I want to comment on. However, I wanted to post about the cryptic pm I received first.

I would like to preface this by saying that I showed Dom word for word what I planned to say about my PM and asked him if that was okay. I would recommend everyone else do the same before sharing information about their PMs out of respect to Dom but I'm not your mother. Also, your room is a pigsty. Clean it up or you're grounded.

My pm mentioned Sondheim, Brown, Schwartz, and Hammerstein together. It also repeated "lyricist" and "3/4" over and over. I think it may be Schwartz's role and I don't think he's a threat to us but I obviously can't be certain.

I got the same PM, I also thought it was Schwartz. Curious

#385

I will post more of my Pm late tonight when I get off work, but i feel like we should hear from everyone today on their info and get it out in the open before lynchings come down. Probably better to get that out sooner rather than later.

#386

Scotty wrote:I will post more of my Pm late tonight when I get off work, but i feel like we should hear from everyone today on their info and get it out in the open before lynchings come down. Probably better to get that out sooner rather than later.

Just remember you can't copy and paste the message or anything to that effect.

#387

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:My PM was full of stuff about stopping time, a second day will follow, and a lot of conditional stuff about 'if lynched' or 'if they die'. And something about a song cycle.
+1

I was interpreting this as the anti-Joshua. Lynch him and you get another day.

I also got these things in my PM.

#388

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:My PM was full of stuff about stopping time, a second day will follow, and a lot of conditional stuff about 'if lynched' or 'if they die'. And something about a song cycle.
+1

I was interpreting this as the anti-Joshua. Lynch him and you get another day.
I also got these things in my PM.

I picked 25

#389

Okay thanks for clarifying gender

@Sloonei I'm saying if you were mafia it could have been a strategy to say you were a noob, however you said you were not a noob this was something I noted as being a more civilian/ independent action who is attempting to stake a claim so to speak much like what CObalt did so to not be brushed off. So what I'm saying is this imo makes you less likely to be a mafia. If that makes sense?

Okay I wasn't sure if you thought they were together or not thanks for clarifying. A few posts not much but I did notice some looking back it isn't anything damning, I think your posts are well put together you ask questions which is another indicator that you aren't a mafia.

What is your views on an LC lynch and the fact that CObalt is pushing it?

#390

At the college stealing wifi and arranging a new ISP. Missed this post earlier.

Sloonei wrote: What do you mean when you say people are circumventing your methods? What are your methods and how are the being circumvented? Am I one of the people who is doing this?

Now, now. Do you expect me to tell you all of my hunting secrets and methods of madness in regards to mafia? That wouldnt be very smart of me. Especially since people who wished to purposefully dodge my tactics would know exactly how to do it following. Plus there are some JTM people in this game, and the way I hunt activity still works quite nicely over there.

Just know that some of you are dodging me, and some are not. It's really not that hard to piece together if you really put your mind to it. I just dont want to lay it all out on the table.

For the record, making me reiterate the same statement multiple times will piss me off quickly. This will be the last time I explain this, Sig. I am not being inactive on Day 1. I am not ignoring the game Day 1. I am not taking this game as a joke on Day 1. Day 1 is always my weakest day. I almost never see anything that draws my undivided attention as a mafia tell, or see anything that would make me color another player as bad. Now, I may have opinions, but I normally wait until I have some things to back up my opinions with on a later day. I dont just throw shit out of the sake of throwing shit out. I wait and I gather. I wait until my theory makes sense, and then I share it. I'm not a fan of putting out information that has a possibility of being 100% incorrect.

When I have something to say, I will say it. Make no mistake of that. It also doesnt help that my very first mafia game I was night killed on the first night. I learned a hard lesson there and I have my own way of trying to avoid it in games going forward.

Also for your ease of mind Sloonei(?) I took this screen shot before I left home earlier because my internet has now been down for over 24 hours

#391

I fucking hate how this forum cuts images in half

Just take a link to the picture instead
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t48 ... o_work.png

#392

Is that a link to a chatzy I see?

#393

sig wrote:Okay thanks for clarifying gender

@Sloonei I'm saying if you were mafia it could have been a strategy to say you were a noob, however you said you were not a noob this was something I noted as being a more civilian/ independent action who is attempting to stake a claim so to speak much like what CObalt did so to not be brushed off. So what I'm saying is this imo makes you less likely to be a mafia. If that makes sense?

Okay I wasn't sure if you thought they were together or not thanks for clarifying. A few posts not much but I did notice some looking back it isn't anything damning, I think your posts are well put together you ask questions which is another indicator that you aren't a mafia.

What is your views on an LC lynch and the fact that CObalt is pushing it?

I do not like the push for LC to be lynched, for a couple of reasons. The first being that I don't agree with th cases that have been made against him. I believe LC's version of the story of Epignosis's. That is not to say I think Epi is scum, or even necessarily wrong. I just see things more LC's way.
But more importantly, it's way too early to begin narrowing down suspects at all. There were calls to lynch him before the game had even started. That sort of approach is completely backwards from my point of view. Day 1 is about finding out as much as we can about every player in the game, not focusing on one target and seeing what shakes out.
which is to say i do not currently support the lynching of Long Con, but it's very early.

#394

Epignosis wrote:Is that a link to a chatzy I see?

Are you talking about the .txt called "IRC Quote"?

Because if so, that's a snip from a really old chat room I used to go to about a video game. Somebody wanted me to copy/paste it on another forum and I just never got rid of it. A topic about Maids came up somehow and everybody started changing their names to maid related shit. I would post it, but I participated in it like a jackass in the most sarcastic way imaginable, and I would look really fucking weird because nobody here would get the context.

#395

For the record, I was multi-tasking while working on a lil something to catch up on what has been said since last night and I lost the page so it's back to square one. It's not some big revelation. Just a bunch of little things. I like to keep up -to-date with things though.

#396

Sloonei wrote:
sig wrote:Okay thanks for clarifying gender

@Sloonei I'm saying if you were mafia it could have been a strategy to say you were a noob, however you said you were not a noob this was something I noted as being a more civilian/ independent action who is attempting to stake a claim so to speak much like what CObalt did so to not be brushed off. So what I'm saying is this imo makes you less likely to be a mafia. If that makes sense?

Okay I wasn't sure if you thought they were together or not thanks for clarifying. A few posts not much but I did notice some looking back it isn't anything damning, I think your posts are well put together you ask questions which is another indicator that you aren't a mafia.

What is your views on an LC lynch and the fact that CObalt is pushing it?
I do not like the push for LC to be lynched, for a couple of reasons. The first being that I don't agree with th cases that have been made against him. I believe LC's version of the story of Epignosis's. That is not to say I think Epi is scum, or even necessarily wrong. I just see things more LC's way.
But more importantly, it's way too early to begin narrowing down suspects at all. There were calls to lynch him before the game had even started. That sort of approach is completely backwards from my point of view. Day 1 is about finding out as much as we can about every player in the game, not focusing on one target and seeing what shakes out.
which is to say i do not currently support the lynching of Long Con, but it's very early.

What is your opinion of S~V~S, then? You've said very little of her.

You did say:

Sloonei wrote:That is an inordinately high number of suspicions to develop in such an early phase of the game. I've never played with SVS before and do not know anything about their usual playstyle, so I do not know quite what to make of all this yet. But I've found this Day 0 to be pretty interesting.

This implies to me that you have played with Long Con before (since you have commented more extensively on him). Is that true?

#397

Gender guide, because we seem to be having a lot of issues. Please note I'm reading scotty, gumshoe, cobalt as male but I'm not sure. I also don't know sig's gender.

Bass The Clever
BirdwithTeeth11
Black Rock
Bullzeye
Canuck
Cobalt
Devin
DFaraday
DREAM
Epignosis
Fingersplints
Golden
Gumshoe
Hedgeowl
Long Con
MetalMarsh89
MovingPictures07
Neverwhere
nijuukyugou
Nutella
Scotty
sig
Sloonei
SVS
Timmer
TinyBubbles
Turnip Head
XthAtGAm3RGuYX

#398

Yeah, I'm a dude.

What gave it away?

It wasn't my avatar, was it?

Was it?

#399

XthAtGAm3RGuYX wrote:At the college stealing wifi and arranging a new ISP. Missed this post earlier.

Sloonei wrote: What do you mean when you say people are circumventing your methods? What are your methods and how are the being circumvented? Am I one of the people who is doing this?

Now, now. Do you expect me to tell you all of my hunting secrets and methods of madness in regards to mafia? That wouldnt be very smart of me. Especially since people who wished to purposefully dodge my tactics would know exactly how to do it following. Plus there are some JTM people in this game, and the way I hunt activity still works quite nicely over there.

Just know that some of you are dodging me, and some are not. It's really not that hard to piece together if you really put your mind to it. I just dont want to lay it all out on the table.

For the record, making me reiterate the same statement multiple times will piss me off quickly. This will be the last time I explain this, Sig. I am not being inactive on Day 1. I am not ignoring the game Day 1. I am not taking this game as a joke on Day 1. Day 1 is always my weakest day. I almost never see anything that draws my undivided attention as a mafia tell, or see anything that would make me color another player as bad. Now, I may have opinions, but I normally wait until I have some things to back up my opinions with on a later day. I dont just throw shit out of the sake of throwing shit out. I wait and I gather. I wait until my theory makes sense, and then I share it. I'm not a fan of putting out information that has a possibility of being 100% incorrect.

When I have something to say, I will say it. Make no mistake of that. It also doesnt help that my very first mafia game I was night killed on the first night. I learned a hard lesson there and I have my own way of trying to avoid it in games going forward.

Also for your ease of mind Sloonei(?) I took this screen shot before I left home earlier because my internet has now been down for over 24 hours

I have no problem discussing strategy and method with other players. I find it very helpful in developing reads and understanding players.
Does your aversion to not sharing 100% truthful information mean you will be withholding information that coud be of public benefit? What valud do you place in engaging in open discussion and assessing other players based on their attitudes and things?

#400

Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
sig wrote:Okay thanks for clarifying gender

@Sloonei I'm saying if you were mafia it could have been a strategy to say you were a noob, however you said you were not a noob this was something I noted as being a more civilian/ independent action who is attempting to stake a claim so to speak much like what CObalt did so to not be brushed off. So what I'm saying is this imo makes you less likely to be a mafia. If that makes sense?

Okay I wasn't sure if you thought they were together or not thanks for clarifying. A few posts not much but I did notice some looking back it isn't anything damning, I think your posts are well put together you ask questions which is another indicator that you aren't a mafia.

What is your views on an LC lynch and the fact that CObalt is pushing it?
I do not like the push for LC to be lynched, for a couple of reasons. The first being that I don't agree with th cases that have been made against him. I believe LC's version of the story of Epignosis's. That is not to say I think Epi is scum, or even necessarily wrong. I just see things more LC's way.
But more importantly, it's way too early to begin narrowing down suspects at all. There were calls to lynch him before the game had even started. That sort of approach is completely backwards from my point of view. Day 1 is about finding out as much as we can about every player in the game, not focusing on one target and seeing what shakes out.
which is to say i do not currently support the lynching of Long Con, but it's very early.
What is your opinion of S~V~S, then? You've said very little of her.

You did say:

Sloonei wrote:That is an inordinately high number of suspicions to develop in such an early phase of the game. I've never played with SVS before and do not know anything about their usual playstyle, so I do not know quite what to make of all this yet. But I've found this Day 0 to be pretty interesting.
This implies to me that you have played with Long Con before (since you have commented more extensively on him). Is that true?

I have never played with Long Con before. My assessment is of the exchange between the two of you earlier. I came out of it not feeling like LC was scum. That does not mean I have LC as a town read or anything. I have not developef a strong read on either LC or SVS, and so I can not support a lynch against either of them.

Who killed MM? (not changeable)