Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nutella said she voted me to "prod" well since I have been back she hasn't said anything about what I have said and has left her vote on me llooks fishy to me.

MM votes seems like something normal spamer MM would do so I am feeling ok about.

Timmer self vote looks like someone saying I havent been keeping up and am scared to make a mistake voting for someone else.

JJJ asked for a replacement but decided to stay, I wonder if it was because he was recruited?


Its hard to say who I think is bad and who I think is civ becuase its so early in this game and so many people are still neutral.

More. I'm going to pick names this time. Please share your thoughts on:

reywaS
Scotty
S~V~S
aapje

[reywaS]

I might buy that you feel guilty about it if you had brought up that you felt guilty about it before now. This is literally the first time you've said that you felt guilty about the move. Saying it now just reeks of desperation.

[Bullzeye]

Nutella said she voted me to "prod" well since I have been back she hasn't said anything about what I have said and has left her vote on me llooks fishy to me.

MM votes seems like something normal spamer MM would do so I am feeling ok about.

Timmer self vote looks like someone saying I havent been keeping up and am scared to make a mistake voting for someone else.

JJJ asked for a replacement but decided to stay, I wonder if it was because he was recruited?


Its hard to say who I think is bad and who I think is civ becuase its so early in this game and so many people are still neutral.

More. I'm going to pick names this time. Please share your thoughts on:

reywaS
Scotty
S~V~S
aapje

Please respond to these in a fairly timely manner as I want to go to bed and it's so unfair that you'd ping me so badly right as I thought I'd worked out my vote.

JJJ - what do you think of Bass' initial answers? Two NO U's and an easy target? The MM one I get if nobody else has a problem with but I still do.

[reywaS]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia also doesn't look good for you.

[reywaS]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

[Bass_the_Clever]

Super tired and it's super late. I want to vote for a TH voter because their reasoning is super weak and sketchy. It's quite lazy to throw out a vote at the whim of another poster - especially one whose identity and allegiance are both unknown. I also expect that if TH were to die today and be revealed as a civ they'd shift all blame to the Speaker. I could go any of three ways on it though so I'll take a few mins to reflect and come back with a name.

Linki Bass: So Nutella prods you and JJJ starts questioning you a bit and you make subtle NO U's? Should I spare the TH voters my wrath? Pretty sure Timmer did offer an explanation for his selfie. MM's vote actually rubs me the wrong way after the amount of thought he put into his day one vote, going through everyone and finding reasons not to vote for people.

Wasnt trying to drop subtle No U's he asked for names and what I thought and those are people I have had thoughts about.

[Bullzeye]

Am I stupid or is there no difference between Rey's initial post and the EBWOP?

[birdwithteeth11]

Alright. I know I said my two strongest suspicions were both Bass and unfurl. Bass has been discussed ad nauseum. So let's look at my other suspicion too, and then I'll decide which one I want to vote for.

Unfurl doesn't have too many posts, but I'm going to focus on all the ones from Day 2:

Bye Epi and Typh, I also agree with the general feeling of loosing Typh after he has not played in a long time is a big lost, even if I have no idea wheter if he was still civvie/neutral or recruited to baddies, still a lost as a player

Can any of the players that defended unfurl's behavior by saying it is like unfurl please explain to me what in her behavior makes you believe this? What adjectives would you use to describe her play in general that you see here, that make you unable to distinguish her alignment, and not persuaded by any of the points I was making?

MP, i just went through your posts that mention unfurl, and through her posts aswell.

Basically, this is the reason you voted for her, right?

At this moment, the players that I'm eyeballing the most are:

unfurl, for 13 posts that contribute practically nothing (no offense intended) to the hunt or game mechanics discussion, and for an attitude that seems very cheeky, sarcastic, and nonchalant. It's possible that she is a recruiter or recruited that isn't willing to open up the low poster discussion for the reasons I mentioned, although it seems clear that she has no intention to open up any avenue of discussion. Even if she isn't recruited or recruiter of a nefarious nature, that is a dangerous mindset, and considering 28 of us are neutral, she may receive my vote purely for that unwillingness.

I don't see anything wrong with her having the attitude you described Day 1 in a Recruitment game. Especially her post here is one i agree with. I don't read her as having 0 intention in discussing anything (i think she has posted quite a bit since your interactions), i read it as wanting to play the game in her own way. I'm sure as the game progresses she'll have more original posts and thoughts.
So as for your suspicions and her posts so far, i don't think it points to unfurl being a Recruiter or having been recruited.

What do you make of DrWilgy wanting to be friends with unfurl?

Tranq, thanks for elaborating on this. You're correct that's essentially what I was seeing in unfurl.

As to the last line, why is that exactly? Do you think a Recruiter or recruited would be more apt to share their own opinions?

Regarding DrWilgy, I have no idea what to make of it. Apparently, he's friends with MM now as well. What do you make of it?

Im going to answer to this as it sort of is about me, so I will stick my nose in there

I think something to keep on my mind MP, it was day 1, I think a lot people expressed that day 1 is a crapsot, bullshit, they dont know what to do etc
I was not the only one feeling like I had no idea what is going on, sometimes it takes me a while to get on the swing on things and to people that dont know well, it comes as Im not trying, but I do try more so as the game progress, also keep on mynd there are 36 players, Im not used to that much of reading, I usually like smaller games and I also dont play a lot, in this site alone is my 3rd game

I admire people who are so selfasure of what they find suspicious, and so stubborn about it, may have theory, look a little bit at trying to find clues, like I did in the night post, and aapje thought as well, (And Im gonna ask the host my previous questions that they do not answer )and sometimes I make cases which does not mean Im fully convinced or correct about it, and sometimes I just go with my gut also

Says RIP to Epig and Typh. Otherwise, looks to me like she says she takes awhile to get going in most games, and feels overwhelmed with all the reading/posts involved.

HOST QUESTIONS

Host
LC- BR
Are the names of roles on the post, just for storytelling? being specific the Warrior of the Shadows or they have some involment in game mechanics for the lynch

---

HOST
What does it mean a lynch stop in your world?
the player with most votes dies? what are the variables that can apply?

Some host questions.

unfurl, thanks, I appreciate it. I understand, don't get me wrong. But it also would be a convenient way for a recruiter or recently recruited to avoid committing to anything that occurs during Day 1. I've also seen Day 1's this year that completely were not crapshoots, so I think it may be silly to immediately dismiss any Day 1 discussion as meaningless.

Nonetheless, I take what you have to say into consideration. What thoughts about players do you have right now?

From top on my head

Golden vrs Epig thing, well Epig is dead, but Golden saying something along the line that he set up Epig is weird, dont know if he is WIFOM, but if Golden was bad why he will be so honest about it?

Scotty, day 1 vote for SVS, was a litte bit odd, as Dom pointed out, but Scotty explained later on, and it made sense his explanation

BWT, got a lot votes, maybe is worth lo look at him or his voters, some manipulation may be going on in that situation something I may look into later on

Thinks it's weird Golden claims he set Epig up, says Scotty's vote for SVS on Day 1 was odd, but his explanation made sense. Says it might be worth looking at me or my voters because of some manipulation.

Honestly, this is the first time I honestly feel like unfurl posted something of substance.

Also I do not agree with Scotty on his theory about SVS, but at leastthe reason behind his vote it was not that contradictory, which was the point

More on Scotty.

I don't really know unfurl's style, sorry. I hosted her once on The Syndicate in Fight Club and that was a super unconventional game. I thought she had more original thoughts that game but I can't even recall that very well. I have a hard time remembering games I've played on RM, except for Futurama and King Arthur, especially since I haven't played on RM in years. Sorry, unfurl, no offense intended. But I just have less experience with her than most of the players in this game.

I was very silly in Fight Club, 99% of the time, the only reason I won is cause I got recruited by BR team, and it was almost toward the end of the game, so they already had done the hard work

You are even admiting that you dont know me, and you did voted for me with out giving me a chance to get more into it, one vote is not much, but thats how some bandwagons start and I did revenge voted you, cause I did felt you were judging me for not trying, but at the end your vote was weak and easy to get out of the way
so who was not really trying?

Defends herself from MP's reasoning for his Day 1 vote on her. Admits that she "revenged voted" him. So basically no u'ed him.

Spoiler: show

I was very silly in Fight Club, 99% of the time, the only reason I won is cause I got recruited by BR team, and it was almost toward the end of the game, so they already had done the hard work

You are even admiting that you dont know me, and you did voted for me with out giving me a chance to get more into it, one vote is not much, but thats how some bandwagons start and I did revenge voted you, cause I did felt you were judging me for not trying, but at the end your vote was weak and easy to get out of the way
so who was not really trying?

unfurl, noted re: Fight Club.

You really think I haven't been trying this game?

When it comes to votting No, I dont think so, day 1 you voted for me, which we talked a lot already about it, I think we are going in circles

More with MP. Says they're "going in circles". Could be viewed as trying to stifle discussion.

BWT, got a lot votes, maybe is worth lo look at him or his voters, some manipulation may be going on in that situation something I may look into later on

I agree re-reading the BWT voters might be a traditional way to spot some potential bandwagoning, but what manipulation do you plan to unearth, considering the Day officially ended before BWT received 7 out of his 8 total votes?

Mearly that Im curious as to he received 8 votes (looking at the image poll) from Devin-Lorab-TurnipHead-jaggedjimmy -DrWiggly-Golden-Typh-Tranq
More toward the end of the lynch poll
And even if the day ended early, and we have no clue to bwt alliance, I think is intersting to see if people still feel the same about him or if something changed?

Again states that she's keeping an eye on people who voted for me Day 1, to see if they still feel the same about me.

Alright. I'm all caught up now, but I'm way too tired to really post coherent thoughts. Thankfully I only work a half-day tomorrow, so I will have plenty of time in the afternoon to be around then. The best I can do for tonight is to just keep up with the thread.

So what are you thoughts for this lynch? you voted for a low poster day 1, Dfaraday, which also brings the question? are you still looking at him? is not like he has changed anything?
What do you think of the people that voted for you? do you think they still looking at you?

Her questions to me, which I answered.

Skipping her next post because it's 1 OT sentence.

About the messages posted from The Speaker of Serenity and the Keeper of Ravens
The issue that I see with roles that can post messages on the thread, is that we dont know the identity or the intentions behind it?
From probabilities is more likely early on that player is civvie-neutral, but later on it can become an old fashion witchunt
It can become very handy to help to figure out things if they are receiving extra-knowledge but also good to keep an open mind

Speculating on The Speaker of Serenity and the Keeper of Ravens. Personally, I feel like it's too early in the game to come to any definitive conclusion on this.

@ aapje
Bass_the_Clever is Roxy´s son

States who Bass is.

Alright. I'm all caught up now, but I'm way too tired to really post coherent thoughts. Thankfully I only work a half-day tomorrow, so I will have plenty of time in the afternoon to be around then. The best I can do for tonight is to just keep up with the thread.

So what are you thoughts for this lynch? you voted for a low poster day 1, Dfaraday, which also brings the question? are you still looking at him? is not like he has changed anything?
What do you think of the people that voted for you? do you think they still looking at you?

For now Im placing my vote on birdwithteeth11 I gonna try to pop up later to see if his afternoon promised is fullfilled

Im gonna keep an open mind about MP, but Im also not joining The save MP party by votting Bass, Im actually intersting to see if any more guesses will be joining eitheir one

Puts what I'm assuming is a placeholder vote on me to see if I end up answering her questions. Also says she won't vote to save MP, but she is keeping an open mind about him. Says she wants to see if anyone else would join in.

Alright. I'm all caught up now, but I'm way too tired to really post coherent thoughts. Thankfully I only work a half-day tomorrow, so I will have plenty of time in the afternoon to be around then. The best I can do for tonight is to just keep up with the thread.

So what are you thoughts for this lynch? you voted for a low poster day 1, Dfaraday, which also brings the question? are you still looking at him? is not like he has changed anything?
What do you think of the people that voted for you? do you think they still looking at you?

For now Im placing my vote on birdwithteeth11 I gonna try to pop up later to see if his afternoon promised is fullfilled

Im gonna keep an open mind about MP, but Im also not joining The save MP party by votting Bass, Im actually intersting to see if any more guesses will be joining eitheir one

- Unfurl, why did you throw a vote on me out of curiosity? Was it because I hadn't come back to post yet or were there other reasons? Do tell. And on that note, what else have you actually contributed to this game since receiving MP's vote on Day 1? Because I feel like you've still said a lot without saying a lot.

Aparently you have missed a lot of my previous questions
I wanted to get answers/reactions from you, to decide if to change my vote from you, instead you asking me why I voted for you and go, and are using the same words MP said about be Day 1
and now you are saying the underline part which was what MP was saying, and actually you never said that about me during day 1
aparently you are a copy cat of MP cause day 1 you also agreed with him about votting for a low poster
my vote is staying in you, cause you are quick to agree about low posters but you are pretty much just copying MP

I questioned why she voted for me (because I missed her previous questions), which she clarifies for me, stating she is hoping to get answers from me. But the kicker for me here is that she says I'm "using the same words MP said about me Day 1".

How in the world am I doing that? I only said that I didn't see where you had made any sort of case on me or asked me any questions. Given I missed it, it was an honest question. Hence why I turned a question back on her about what she has contributed to this game.

I already explained why I voted a low poster, so I won't go there again. And I never said I was voting a low poster again on Day 2. IIRC, I said I would not use the same strategy to decide on whom I voted for.

So in all honesty, I still don't think you've contributed much this game. And then you vote for me, see my response, and instead of answering my question decide to claim I'm just like MP and thinking along the same lines and him, and that's your justification for keeping your vote on me?

Sorry, sister. That one won't work.

Votes unfurl[/b}

Tons of linki. Going to post anyway and then read it.

[reywaS]

Am I stupid or is there no difference between Rey's initial post and the EBWOP?

I used the word "also" twice in the first one.

[Bullzeye]

Super tired and it's super late. I want to vote for a TH voter because their reasoning is super weak and sketchy. It's quite lazy to throw out a vote at the whim of another poster - especially one whose identity and allegiance are both unknown. I also expect that if TH were to die today and be revealed as a civ they'd shift all blame to the Speaker. I could go any of three ways on it though so I'll take a few mins to reflect and come back with a name.

Linki Bass: So Nutella prods you and JJJ starts questioning you a bit and you make subtle NO U's? Should I spare the TH voters my wrath? Pretty sure Timmer did offer an explanation for his selfie. MM's vote actually rubs me the wrong way after the amount of thought he put into his day one vote, going through everyone and finding reasons not to vote for people.

Wasnt trying to drop subtle No U's he asked for names and what I thought and those are people I have had thoughts about.

But can you not see how the names you picked give me cause for concern? Someone says you haven't talked about anyone and asks for 3-5 random opinions. You pick:
The person who called you out, trying to call him a recruit because he considered asking for a replacement but changed his mind.
Someone who voted for you, literally because she voted for you.
Someone who clearly can't play properly right now but didn't want to be penalised for it - an easy target due to his inactivity.
MM - your opinion here is fair play but I strongly disagree.

I'd like to see what you have to say to JJJ's new list, my vote may depend on it.

[Golden]

Hey guys, not going to be around much if at all to defend myself before the night post goes in, so its time for the legacy post in case I come back to find I'm lynched.

Given his vote today, I'm struggling to find rey genuine. That's the second day he has come in and voted late on me in a row based on some small point out of the blue. He claims that the way to find baddies is to look at their motivations not their actions, but he has completely ignored doing any thinking about MY motivations for either of his votes. He has tended to call my defences semantics.

I think bass is someone you should definitely be lynching. I've probably underplayed today how sensible I think a bass lynch would be.

I agree with others who think Dom is being shady about his thoughts, and I tihnk people should be asking him to explain them more.

I'm reading bwt, bea, roxy, SVS, JJ, nutella, unfurl, bullz as very genuine.

Everyone else you could call my read neutral.

linki @rey - whatever. I did not say your vote for me was personal or try to imply it. People have called me a lot of things this game. Call me a liar if you want. I'll just continue to say what I have to say. Anyone who knows me well knows that I do not lie about stuff like emotions, and that my firm belief is 1) there is no legitimate reason why any baddie would ever get benefit from doing so (and if they did get some short term benefit, it gets held against them forever) and 2) That lying about trivial things that you don't need to lie about is stupid no matter what your affiliation is. I feel like you know me well enough, but I recognise there has been a long break.

This game has taken a big emotional toll on me so far and I'm finding it exhausting. I have no idea who has posted the most but I must be up there, and 90% of it has been me on the defence. I go out to try and actually figure out who the baddies are, immediately get some bullshit suspicion from epi, and basically I've never been able to let up on defence since. I don't want to keep it up. So, if people are honestly going to go after me day after day after day for some conduct which I think makes literally no sense in terms of it making me bad, then there isn't much I can do about it.

linki @rey again - why does that not look good for me either? Honestly is my core value. There is nothing I think is further from the truth than that mafia is a game of lying. It isn't. It's a game of lying as little as possible.

linki @rey again - oh no, two also's, you must be bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ - what do you think of Bass' initial answers? Two NO U's and an easy target? The MM one I get if nobody else has a problem with but I still do.

He chose easy comments to make about a pretty easy set of players. The comments about timmer and MM might as well not exist. The comment about nutella is self-conscious as has been most of his post history. The comment about me is, to be fair, something I expected someone to say.

The most striking thing perhaps is that he bothered to answered my plea for reads at all when he seemingly had little to say.

[thellama73]

I realize a lot has happened here that I haven't had the luxury to keep up with. I'm voting for MP since he is still my strongest ping. I'm very sorry, MP if it turns out u am wrong about you. I will be home tomorrow night and able to properly catch up and participate again. I apologize to all the players and to the hosts for my performance so far. Just beer with me one more day.

[Golden]

Just beer with me one more day.

[reywaS]

BWT, do you realize that you used some form of the word "honest" 4 times in that post?

Are you being honest with us?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Nutella said she voted me to "prod" well since I have been back she hasn't said anything about what I have said and has left her vote on me llooks fishy to me.

MM votes seems like something normal spamer MM would do so I am feeling ok about.

Timmer self vote looks like someone saying I havent been keeping up and am scared to make a mistake voting for someone else.

JJJ asked for a replacement but decided to stay, I wonder if it was because he was recruited?


Its hard to say who I think is bad and who I think is civ becuase its so early in this game and so many people are still neutral.

More. I'm going to pick names this time. Please share your thoughts on:

reywaS
Scotty
S~V~S
aapje

Reywas is seems genuine in his vote for Golden.

Scotty I need to go back and re-read him.

S~V~S is so hard for me to read this early in a game.

Aapje I have only played one game with him in the past on RM he isnt as funny as I remember.

[reywaS]

Hey guys, not going to be around much if at all to defend myself before the night post goes in, so its time for the legacy post in case I come back to find I'm lynched.

Given his vote today, I'm struggling to find rey genuine. That's the second day he has come in and voted late on me in a row based on some small point out of the blue. He claims that the way to find baddies is to look at their motivations not their actions, but he has completely ignored doing any thinking about MY motivations for either of his votes. He has tended to call my defences semantics.

I think bass is someone you should definitely be lynching. I've probably underplayed today how sensible I think a bass lynch would be.

I agree with others who think Dom is being shady about his thoughts, and I tihnk people should be asking him to explain them more.

I'm reading bwt, bea, roxy, SVS, JJ, nutella, unfurl, bullz as very genuine.

Everyone else you could call my read neutral.

linki @rey - whatever. I did not say your vote for me was personal or try to imply it. People have called me a lot of things this game. Call me a liar if you want. I'll just continue to say what I have to say. Anyone who knows me well knows that I do not lie about stuff like emotions, and that my firm belief is 1) there is no legitimate reason why any baddie would ever get benefit from doing so (and if they did get some short term benefit, it gets held against them forever) and 2) That lying about trivial things that you don't need to lie about is stupid no matter what your affiliation is. I feel like you know me well enough, but I recognise there has been a long break.

This game has taken a big emotional toll on me so far and I'm finding it exhausting. I have no idea who has posted the most but I must be up there, and 90% of it has been me on the defence. I go out to try and actually figure out who the baddies are, immediately get some bullshit suspicion from epi, and basically I've never been able to let up on defence since. I don't want to keep it up. So, if people are honestly going to go after me day after day after day for some conduct which I think makes literally no sense in terms of it making me bad, then there isn't much I can do about it.

linki @rey again - why does that not look good for me either? Honestly is my core value. There is nothing I think is further from the truth than that mafia is a game of lying. It isn't. It's a game of lying as little as possible.

linki @rey again - oh no, two also's, you must be bad.

I was waiting for the "no u". Thank you for living up to expectations.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Now JJJ and Bullz can you give options on all those names too.

[Golden]

You are most welcome.

Should I threaten to bait a nightkill on you as well?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

[birdwithteeth11]

BWT, do you realize that you used some form of the word "honest" 4 times in that post?

Are you being honest with us?

Not really. I don't pay that much attention to my word choice in posts when I type. I tend to do more of a stream-of-consciousness thing and just let it all come out.

As honest as I can be. How come?

[Bullzeye]

Am I stupid or is there no difference between Rey's initial post and the EBWOP?

I used the word "also" twice in the first one.

Ah I see. I read your posts over and over to find it but couldn't see anything, thought I was losing it for a moment there!

JJJ - what do you think of Bass' initial answers? Two NO U's and an easy target? The MM one I get if nobody else has a problem with but I still do.

He chose easy comments to make about a pretty easy set of players. The comments about timmer and MM might as well not exist. The comment about nutella is self-conscious as has been most of his post history. The comment about me is, to be fair, something I expected someone to say.

The most striking thing perhaps is that he bothered to answered my plea for reads at all when he seemingly had little to say.

He had to answer you - if he'd ignored it he'd have looked even worse. He just feels so blendy and shady to me right now, like he's drawn himself some attention he wished he didn't have and now he's trying to hide from it. I don't know if I'm explaining how I feel very well - I've been awake for 18 hours after 3 hours of sleep. His answer to you just really caught my eye in a huge way.

[Tangrowth]

I'd really rather not die.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Now JJJ and Bullz can you give options on all those names too.

Only fair.

reywaS - His current crusade against Golden seems ill-advised to me and potentially manipulative if he continues to press it in the face of every rebuttal.

Scotty - His content is not very much like what I saw in Broadway and I've already referenced one post which pinged me a lot.

S~V~S - Her conduct re: Golden is more believable, she is handling the rapid-fire discussion with a candor and emotional conveyance that reads genuine to me for the moment.

aapje - Analytic player who might be a risk -- his contributions to this point would be very effective as smoke and mirrors. Minor suspicion though.

[reywaS]

Hey guys, not going to be around much if at all to defend myself before the night post goes in, so its time for the legacy post in case I come back to find I'm lynched.

Given his vote today, I'm struggling to find rey genuine. That's the second day he has come in and voted late on me in a row based on some small point out of the blue. He claims that the way to find baddies is to look at their motivations not their actions, but he has completely ignored doing any thinking about MY motivations for either of his votes. He has tended to call my defences semantics.

I think bass is someone you should definitely be lynching. I've probably underplayed today how sensible I think a bass lynch would be.

I agree with others who think Dom is being shady about his thoughts, and I tihnk people should be asking him to explain them more.

I'm reading bwt, bea, roxy, SVS, JJ, nutella, unfurl, bullz as very genuine.

Everyone else you could call my read neutral.

linki @rey - whatever. I did not say your vote for me was personal or try to imply it. People have called me a lot of things this game. Call me a liar if you want. I'll just continue to say what I have to say. Anyone who knows me well knows that I do not lie about stuff like emotions, and that my firm belief is 1) there is no legitimate reason why any baddie would ever get benefit from doing so (and if they did get some short term benefit, it gets held against them forever) and 2) That lying about trivial things that you don't need to lie about is stupid no matter what your affiliation is. I feel like you know me well enough, but I recognise there has been a long break.

This game has taken a big emotional toll on me so far and I'm finding it exhausting. I have no idea who has posted the most but I must be up there, and 90% of it has been me on the defence. I go out to try and actually figure out who the baddies are, immediately get some bullshit suspicion from epi, and basically I've never been able to let up on defence since. I don't want to keep it up. So, if people are honestly going to go after me day after day after day for some conduct which I think makes literally no sense in terms of it making me bad, then there isn't much I can do about it.

linki @rey again - why does that not look good for me either? Honestly is my core value. There is nothing I think is further from the truth than that mafia is a game of lying. It isn't. It's a game of lying as little as possible.

linki @rey again - oh no, two also's, you must be bad.

Oh, cut the shit, Golden. This is mafia we are playing here, no? Reacting so over the top upset about someone not believing you....IN A GAME OF MAFIA....sounds desperate.

[S~V~S]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

What would you say if i told you that in the perhaps 20 games i have played with Golden in about 5 years, he has consistently put the civ group above himself, even when a neutral or independant?

[reywaS]

BWT, do you realize that you used some form of the word "honest" 4 times in that post?

Are you being honest with us?

Not really. I don't pay that much attention to my word choice in posts when I type. I tend to do more of a stream-of-consciousness thing and just let it all come out.

As honest as I can be. How come?

I was just messing with you. :P

[Golden]

Rey - I'm trying to convince you that you are wrong. Sorry if that is overreacting.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Im not trying to hide at all. I was honest in my answers would you rather give some B.S or recycled answers?

[Golden]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

What would you say if i told you that in the perhaps 20 games i have played with Golden in about 5 years, he has consistently put the civ group above himself, even when a neutral or independant?

But I'm not neutral or independent. Im' just in limbo.

I don't know what I might be, until I am.

And I still did put the needs ahead of the grpi[ in full focus, but whatever, I'll get to that later. Gotta go now.

[reywaS]

You are most welcome.

Should I threaten to bait a nightkill on you as well?

[reywaS]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

I would take it with a modestly sized grain of salt.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He had to answer you - if he'd ignored it he'd have looked even worse. He just feels so blendy and shady to me right now, like he's drawn himself some attention he wished he didn't have and now he's trying to hide from it. I don't know if I'm explaining how I feel very well - I've been awake for 18 hours after 3 hours of sleep. His answer to you just really caught my eye in a huge way.

I understand your perspective and in many ways share it. I think we need to ask ourselves these questions to sort out the matter of Bass on Day 2:

1.) If Bass's response wasn't satisfactory, then what would a satisfactory response have looked like?

.....a.) Is the response you're imagining a reasonable expectation for a player with so few posts?

.....b.) Should we demand a player who has had limited time in the thread and faced a number of accusers have thoroughly developed reads on a lot of other players?

.....c.) Does his "no u" inclination indicate paranoia (a town tell) or deflection (a mafia tell)?

The factor which is most preventing me from giving Bass a break is that in both games I've played with him he's been mafia -- and he's behaved quite a lot like he has in this game so far.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

What would you say if i told you that in the perhaps 20 games i have played with Golden in about 5 years, he has consistently put the civ group above himself, even when a neutral or independant?

That would be a meaningful claim, but it's also one that I'd need to see evidence of. How many times have you played with a Golden who has [probably] started a game neutral or independent? Are they contextually similar enough to this to make the comparison valid?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

I would take it with a modestly sized grain of salt.

What would be the source of your doubt in this example?

[birdwithteeth11]

BWT, do you realize that you used some form of the word "honest" 4 times in that post?

Are you being honest with us?

Not really. I don't pay that much attention to my word choice in posts when I type. I tend to do more of a stream-of-consciousness thing and just let it all come out.

As honest as I can be. How come?

I was just messing with you. :P

Oh okay.

I'm a bit cereal right now. Pass me a blunt then, bro. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Could anyone provide me with feedback on this whole thing here?

Spoiler: show

I am more suspicious of the MP voters than I am of the average random participant. This post by Scotty troubles me:

I have been quite clear in the fact that I vacationing at the beach until tiesday being relentless pestered by small children and trying to keep up on my phone. I'm sorry that I have been able to weigh in on every topic of discussion, but at least I am not missing votes. I am basing my votes on pings as I see them until I get back. If that makes me a liability, then don't recruit me to your team.

You're right. I'm sorry as well. I understand why you think I've overreacted because I have. I really don't want to get lynched on D2 over baseless reasons this game. Surely you can relate to being an easy lynch.

I'll move my vote.

Make sure you bold it!

linki- that goes for you too MM!

I think MP's frustrations are genuine, but I think they are coming different angles. Angry Birds shouldn't be an excuse here, and I actually don't see the passive-aggressiveness he's expressing via Rico and llama, but hey man, everybody's got something going on. It's just whooshing right over my head. Last time I saw MP this wound up was in Watchmen, and that was when he was taking a bit of heat before the vote. This, however, doesn't seem like heat for a vote, but for a myriad of personal semantic and personal reasons. He was frustrated civ in that game, but I don't know if I read that here.

Y'all ever tried crack cocaine? I was hanging out on the street yesterday with a buddy who had recently been dumped and this homeless man started talking with us about the miracles of crack. He invited us to his lair between buildings to try some, and my buddy felt like he had nothing better to do. So he joined in while I went to the pharmacy to get some mango spears. The line there had only 2 people but took like 10 minutes- no kidding!! - and by the time I got back, my buddy had already left with a girl he had met at the bodega nearby, homeless man was nowhere to be seen. This morning he texted and said he had a crazy night, and it was the best decision of his life. Those mango spears were in so very ripe and in season and I DEVOURED them as well . All in all, a good night had by all!

Don't be afraid to try something new, MP. You do you. I know you are stressed out, and I get that feel. But you may want to check that at the door, since, to me anyway, it doesn't do your civ cred- in this game at least- any favors.

That first true paragraph is all over the place. Scotty reads MP's frustration as genuine (first highlight), but not as civilian genuine -- I view this distinction dubiously. That isn't because I don't think there can be a distinction, there can. It's because I don't follow the logic Scotty has laid out to arrive at that conclusion. He drew the comparison to frustration exhibited by MP in Watchmen (I did not follow this game closely), referencing the reasons MP was taking heat rather than MP's actual behavior. This means Scotty's interest lies in the accusations being leveled upon MP and not in MP's responses to them -- that's the wrong place to focus.

I hate having my own little pet suspect while everyone else argues about other people.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Well its time for me to get ready to go to bed so I'm moving my vote from MP to Golden.

[reywaS]

Also, Golden, you getting so upset that someone might think you are not being honest in a game of mafia doesn't look good for you.

EBWOP

What would you say if I told you that in a very recent game I played with Golden, he was equally insistent on his claimed honesty being respected on the purest moral basis that honesty is virtuous -- and he was a townie?

I would take it with a modestly sized grain of salt.

What would be the source of your doubt in this example?

the fact that we are playing a game based on deception.

[Bullzeye]

Now JJJ and Bullz can you give options on all those names too.

Happy to. In fact I'll do all the names you've given. It's not like I'm trying to go to bed or anything

Nutella - She seems reasonable. Clearly trying to engage with a lot of different topics and making her views known. I don't feel bad about her right now. Probably still neutral, but a convincing enough argument could sway me to think civ.

Timmer - Seems like he's having difficulties connecting, not gonna hold that against him. Before he went away the majority of his posts were quite analytical and I don't see him being a baddie.

JJJ - I feel quite good about him, he says things I agree with. All in all I'd say neutral but of the eight names here probably the best potential recruit. I'll worry about that when I think it's more likely though.

MM - Up until today I'd have said I feel good about MM. His TH vote gives me pause though as I think he can do better than that. I've already explained why I have issues with the TH voters though.

reywaS - Seems genuine in his pursuit of Golden, I think Rey gets more aggressive/passionate as a civ and I think that's what we're seeing here.

Scotty - Not sure. A good proportion of his posts are basically fluff, I remember being pinged by his pseudorandom vote for SVS but I think his explanation was decent. Someone I'd keep an eye on.

SVS - When we went into the game, I knew that if I got to be a recruiter then she was going to be my number 1 pick regardless. I doubt I'm alone in that. Just an observation though at this stage. I can never really get a good read on her, there are a handful of players that I always want to believe are civ and SVS is one of them.

Aapje - I swear I've played with him before but I don't remember when or what he was like. Asks a lot of questions, I do think his DP vote today was a bit of a cop out when you consider the amount of discussion we've had.

Holy linkitis Batman, that's what I get for being crazy.

[Scotty]

Im pissed right now and am in no mind to do shit.

I'm sorry all. I've been really busy this past week and am beyond exhausted. I should have just asked for a replacement but I thought I'd just slog through it.

Riding on the subway with limited reception the paSt hour I had a giant post written out for reads, and in my attempt to copy everything on my phone, the Internet lagged out, I apparently deleted everything except for a fucking "ok i" and posted it. Please excuse my language but this is something I do on the long train rides sometimes and today I reached my breaking point.

I said I would be starting up soon to be back to form and it's looking good for me this week, but just thinking about all the reads I had going reminds me that I need a break for a second. Give me time, and I'll be back to my normal self. If not, kill me because I probably deserve it.

VOTING SCOTTY.

[Tangrowth]

Nevermind replacement. I'll soldier on after work.

Glad to have you Jay!

Likewise. Glad to see you back in full form, Jay.

Warning, this post is probably somewhat OT and is not necessary to read, but just wanted to say it all. Nonetheless, it does have some game-related relevance with respect to my behavior

You really think MP's response was out of character?
You think Alex being suspected, overreacting, and being rather unreasonable in the thread is unusual????
I would be suspicious if he DIDN'T do that.

I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on bass to help MP out. To me he sounds like genuine, frustrated, overreacting, emotional, explosive, f u MP (Don't take any of these to heart buddy ) and I'd hate to see him go out for it yet again. Also, I like Golden's "case" on bass. :parrotsmilie:

You guys are awesome.

For the whole MP vs. llama thing, I'm absolutely not surprised at all that MP reacted the way he did. I've almost come to expect at least one emotional outburst from him per game. While he's done it both as a baddie and a civvie, I'm not getting any baddie vibes from him on this front.

Just highlighting BWT's post because it was convenient, but many folks have said something similar, and I'm going to comment seriously on it now.

I realize particularly since I've started the PhD exactly one year ago that mafia games have seen me become increasingly emotionally charged; I feel like it's easy for any negative feelings I feel in mafia games feed into my PhD program frustration and vice versa. I honestly thought I'd have to quit playing mafia when I started the PhD, but I quickly started feeling as though I was going insane, and mafia is my main source of social interaction. I love the game. I love you all. It's hard to stay away, since mafia has given me something to think about that isn't the PhD program. It's served a great purpose. Simultaneously, it also has been an inevitable source of frustration.

What can I say? I'm a passionate guy. But I've had embarrassing moments where I've come across indignant rather than passionate, which have increased exponentially over the past year.

I absolutely hate the fact that this has become a hallmark of my style. I think I really need to force myself into a temporary retirement and concentrate on my studies 100%, instead of emotionally overexhausting myself via mafia and the program. I've thrown that idea around off and on this whole PhD stage, but never been able to really pull the trigger.

I intend to give this game my all and really play my best, try to avoid any further mafia consternation, and respectfully bow out from playing for a while once this game and Angry Birds are over. I just want to say again that I do apologize particularly to Llama and Rico. Some of what I said was worded very poorly.

I'll comment on purely game-related content ASAP.

[Bullzeye]

He had to answer you - if he'd ignored it he'd have looked even worse. He just feels so blendy and shady to me right now, like he's drawn himself some attention he wished he didn't have and now he's trying to hide from it. I don't know if I'm explaining how I feel very well - I've been awake for 18 hours after 3 hours of sleep. His answer to you just really caught my eye in a huge way.

I understand your perspective and in many ways share it. I think we need to ask ourselves these questions to sort out the matter of Bass on Day 2:

1.) If Bass's response wasn't satisfactory, then what would a satisfactory response have looked like?

.....a.) Is the response you're imagining a reasonable expectation for a player with so few posts?

.....b.) Should we demand a player who has had limited time in the thread and faced a number of accusers have thoroughly developed reads on a lot of other players?

.....c.) Does his "no u" inclination indicate paranoia (a town tell) or deflection (a mafia tell)?

The factor which is most preventing me from giving Bass a break is that in both games I've played with him he's been mafia -- and he's behaved quite a lot like he has in this game so far.

1. If you asked me to pick 3-5 random players, I'd grab the last 3-5 posters and have a quick glance over their posts. You'd see a sentence or three of my first instincts and some kind of conclusion based on what I'd read.

a. Why shouldn't it be when he has clearly had time in the past couple of hours?

b. No. But it didn't take me long to make that 8 opinion post and for half the people on there I had to give them a good look. I hadn't really put much thought at all into Nutella, Aapje, Timmer, or Rey. Now I have vague opinions on all of them.

c. Paranoia isn't a town tell IMO. Baddies have more to be paranoid about.

It's 3am. I don't feel good at all about Bass. His responses have only made me feel worse. Therefore I'm: *Voting Bass*

[Spacedaisy]

I am confident it is in my best interests, and if I had my time over I would do it again. Why can't I also feel guilty about it?

I'm sick of people using honesty against me. Once again, WHY IS IT BAD FOR ME TO SAY THAT?

I don't think it is and I don't think you should feel guilty either. It's a game, you played it. Own that move, not many would have been able to pull it off. But people will remember, even after this game so it comes at a sacrifice of trust. Just the way it rolls. That said, I don't feel anything you have said is disingenuous.

Ok, I've been reading and trying to decide who to vote for. Right now I am leaning a bass vote, because he feels like he is trying to get attention to anywhere but himself, and is shooting for the low hanging fruit. I'm going to register a vote for bass but I'm going to go back and read over his posts to be sure I'm as comfortable with it as I feel at this moment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Im pissed right now and am in no mind to do shit.

I'm sorry all. I've been really busy this past week and am beyond exhausted. I should have just asked for a replacement but I thought I'd just slog through it.

Riding on the subway with limited reception the paSt hour I had a giant post written out for reads, and in my attempt to copy everything on my phone, the Internet lagged out, I apparently deleted everything except for a fucking "ok i" and posted it. Please excuse my language but this is something I do on the long train rides sometimes and today I reached my breaking point.

I said I would be starting up soon to be back to form and it's looking good for me this week, but just thinking about all the reads I had going reminds me that I need a break for a second. Give me time, and I'll be back to my normal self. If not, kill me because I probably deserve it.

VOTING SCOTTY.

I like it. Not because of the appeal-to-emotion self-vote, but because I completely believe the explanation for "ok i". That post did not spring into existence as some sort of ploy. I won't vote for you today Scotty.

Give us those delicious reads as soon as you're up to it.

[reywaS]

BWT, do you realize that you used some form of the word "honest" 4 times in that post?

Are you being honest with us?

Not really. I don't pay that much attention to my word choice in posts when I type. I tend to do more of a stream-of-consciousness thing and just let it all come out.

As honest as I can be. How come?

I was just messing with you. :P

Oh okay.

I'm a bit cereal right now. Pass me a blunt then, bro. :P

I just burnt the bejeezus out of my thumb.

[nutella]

Nutella said she voted me to "prod" well since I have been back she hasn't said anything about what I have said and has left her vote on me llooks fishy to me.

You hadn't said much until recently, and you're still not looking good to me at all. In fact, given your last several posts, I am feeling even better about my vote for you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks everyone for the kind words, btw.

[Roxy]

Okay, that's totally fair. I have read his responses as genuine for the most part but I can definitely get where you're coming from. I'm inclined to think he's an unrecruited who's not devoting much effort to playing the game at this point.

linki @ Roxy: I'm looking through your posts and I see no explanation. In fact I do not see mention of BWT besides asking his D1 voters whether they still suspect him or not. The only thing I see is your first post after the EOD when you comment on BWT's "Go Civs" comment -- and that is right after you say you probably would not have voted for him because he is "generally wacky". Is the "go civvies" comment your sole reason for suspecting he was recruited? Or did I miss something else in your posts, because I don't see any more mention of suspecting him between then and your vote.

Well then you did see it. That post felt unnatural to me. I stated something about and despite being in the thread and claimed to have read he never even mentioned it.

I don't mean to no u but your vote for Bass to prod him after not really mentioning him before is sort of the same thing - just saying hey I think you could be bad - show me that you are not.

Just catching up and posting as I go

[Spacedaisy]

Yeah, after reading back over all of Bass' posts, I'm pretty comfortable with my vote where it especially given that Golden is the other leading candidate and I don't think he should be lynched right now.