Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Game Over

[Bullzeye]

Okay Bullzeye you're adequately defended who do you think is scum?

I wouldn't mind a Floyd lynch, and may vote that way myself. Also had some minor suspicion of splints earlier on that I think maybe I should revisit. I'm probably up all night watching Desert Bus so I have time to look at both of them and others I might be inclined to eyeball.

Would very much appreciate this.

Intend to when night is over. Also want to look over JC, Luke, and Floyd's posts to see if there are any clues to their final buddy.

[Golden]

Voting feral pixie. I'm most unsure of that one.

I may not be around much this weekend. I'll be spending time in the city today and then my roommate and I will be playing portal 2 all night. It never gets old

I've been wanting to play the co-op version of that game. I haven't gotten the chance yet.

We should make it happen some time, then, marmot.

[Turnip Head]

Why is Dr. Von Drezenbitch not on the poll?

[Tranq]

Feral Pixie.

Yay! Great result! Looking forward to Tranq having to put a little more work into the game now too

Uh.

I want to reread Typhoony today. His behavior was very unexpected to me; even if he had not been killed by Witherdeath, I didn't think he was Juliets teammate; I have never ever seen Typh defend a teammate; I think I am more interested in what he did not comment about than what he did during the whole Juliets thing. I also need to reread Timmer & the whole "confession" thing.

Typhoony pretty heavily defended a baddie teammate aapje in rabbit's Sword of Truth game. Ofcourse the case on aapje was absolute bullshit, involving fake infoclaims etc, but yeah. I don't think he was a member of the Cabal. Actually, going through his posts based on the assumption he was Circle of Decay might be a good starting point to lynching one of them.

[Marmot]

Voting feral pixie. I'm most unsure of that one.

I may not be around much this weekend. I'll be spending time in the city today and then my roommate and I will be playing portal 2 all night. It never gets old

I've been wanting to play the co-op version of that game. I haven't gotten the chance yet.

We should make it happen some time, then, marmot.

Definitely.

[S~V~S]

Feral Pixie.

Yay! Great result! Looking forward to Tranq having to put a little more work into the game now too

Uh.

I want to reread Typhoony today. His behavior was very unexpected to me; even if he had not been killed by Witherdeath, I didn't think he was Juliets teammate; I have never ever seen Typh defend a teammate; I think I am more interested in what he did not comment about than what he did during the whole Juliets thing. I also need to reread Timmer & the whole "confession" thing.

Typhoony pretty heavily defended a baddie teammate aapje in rabbit's Sword of Truth game. Ofcourse the case on aapje was absolute bullshit, involving fake infoclaims etc, but yeah. I don't think he was a member of the Cabal. Actually, going through his posts based on the assumption he was Circle of Decay might be a good starting point to lynching one of them.

If I recall correctly. he had already been recruited by me when aapje got dumped on. Typh was a civvie at that point, and oddly I was helping him work hard to save aapje since his death would make the other bad group too powerful. So let's split this on 50/50 nub Tranq

Just walked in the door. Not much catching up to do, I see.

[Marmot]

The Feral Pixie.

[MacDougall]

It's so sweet that you think that there are definitive forumulae as to how baddies act. While I agree that Dr W is bad, it's not for the same reasons. But, go along.

... the part where you sarcastically say it's sweet that I think there are definitive formulae, as though that's not actually true. There are repeat behaviours scum exhibit all the time, do you agree? Ignoring scum teammates or over focusing on them to the detriment of sense and reason. Late game ISOs exhibiting a lack of actual scum hunting effort in a voluminous ISO. There are dozens of behaviours scum players largely exhibit. Talented scum players know them and get around them.

LoRab can you address this. Do you genuinely believe there aren't?

I tend to believe that your position is an over simplification, and that there is no definitive formula. In games like they have at most other sites, the setups are more formulaic~ this limits the options baddies have as well as their strategies. Our all role madness games with varying levels of secrecy, resurrections, manipulations, secret roles & recruitment possibilities that we build into our games make the options richer & more varied. We are spoiled by sophisticated set ups and expect it of our hosts. I have been playing for over 6 years now and I see things from baddies I have never seen before in most games. And when she played more, Lorab was often the one to do those things.

I would not condescend to her if I were you. Just a word to the wise

I wasn't condescending her. I was asking. Perhaps the issue is on the word definitive. I never really claimed there were "definitive formulae" I am just analysing the game from the perspective of there being ways to catch scum that are beyond looking just at their posts.

It's so sweet that you think that there are definitive forumulae as to how baddies act. While I agree that Dr W is bad, it's not for the same reasons. But, go along.

... the part where you sarcastically say it's sweet that I think there are definitive formulae, as though that's not actually true. There are repeat behaviours scum exhibit all the time, do you agree? Ignoring scum teammates or over focusing on them to the detriment of sense and reason. Late game ISOs exhibiting a lack of actual scum hunting effort in a voluminous ISO. There are dozens of behaviours scum players largely exhibit. Talented scum players know them and get around them.

LoRab can you address this. Do you genuinely believe there aren't?

Sorry. Just got up.

I do not agree.

Mafia would be a much different game and, to me, less interesting if there were definitive formulae.

I think there are sometimes patterns, but that it depends much more on the individual in a baddie role than baddies in general. Talented baddies may or may not know what their personal tells are and may or may not be able to avoid them.

Sure, there are some tendencies of baddies, but not everyone exhibits them and a lot of them are things that civvies do just as much. I also think a or if it is dependent on role.

I also think svs brings up a good point about the fact that the game structures we are used to make it a different game in some ways and one in which rules like that don't apply.

And I've been looking for baddies. Maybe not the same way as you do, but I have been looking for baddies.

I could also argue that your random naming of people also isn't baddie hunting. And that your formulae are clearly flawed because I know you are wrong about means I think you are wrong about others.

Hmmm. You're the one who said definitive in the first place. Formulae/patterns, it's splitting hairs on words. I think there are patterns that are displayed and tbh I never really even said that it was something baddies display game to game.

For instance the post I made about in thread references to Floyd isn't a "definitive formulae", it's a pattern I think might uncover something because of the outcomes that are occurring in this game only.

[LoRab]

That you said forumula implies definitive, as that is a mathematical term.

Even so, I continue to disagree with your general principle that baddies tend to do various things--or at least strongly disagree with those things that you seem to think baddies do. There are some baddie riffs that are repeated in posts--but they tend to be behavioral in a way that is conveyed through tone and in posts.

Again, I have the advantage of knowing that anything you think of my posting as being a 90% chance that I'm bad, I know that you're entirely wrong. And since you base that on what you consider baddie behaviors, yeah, I disagree with you.

Based on the games that I've played, I firmly believe that it is through reading posts and analyizing reactions that one learns the most about other players. I realize that there is also a mater of The Maths in terms of probability and what numbers of players there may be. I don't think that there are forumulae, as you suggest.

And if you were not trying to sound condescending, then I suggest examining your wording. Your post certainly sounded that way. Perhaps because of "as if that's not actually true," which implies that any experienced mafia player would know that.

[MacDougall]

That you said forumula implies definitive, as that is a mathematical term.

Even so, I continue to disagree with your general principle that baddies tend to do various things--or at least strongly disagree with those things that you seem to think baddies do. There are some baddie riffs that are repeated in posts--but they tend to be behavioral in a way that is conveyed through tone and in posts.

Again, I have the advantage of knowing that anything you think of my posting as being a 90% chance that I'm bad, I know that you're entirely wrong. And since you base that on what you consider baddie behaviors, yeah, I disagree with you.

Based on the games that I've played, I firmly believe that it is through reading posts and analyizing reactions that one learns the most about other players. I realize that there is also a mater of The Maths in terms of probability and what numbers of players there may be. I don't think that there are forumulae, as you suggest.

And if you were not trying to sound condescending, then I suggest examining your wording. Your post certainly sounded that way. Perhaps because of "as if that's not actually true," which implies that any experienced mafia player would know that.

Come on now we've both been snarky to each other. It comes with the territory.

Anyway if your argument to my points is "I know you're wrong about me so that means you're wrong about others" then I guess ditto.

[LoRab]

That you said forumula implies definitive, as that is a mathematical term.

Even so, I continue to disagree with your general principle that baddies tend to do various things--or at least strongly disagree with those things that you seem to think baddies do. There are some baddie riffs that are repeated in posts--but they tend to be behavioral in a way that is conveyed through tone and in posts.

Again, I have the advantage of knowing that anything you think of my posting as being a 90% chance that I'm bad, I know that you're entirely wrong. And since you base that on what you consider baddie behaviors, yeah, I disagree with you.

Based on the games that I've played, I firmly believe that it is through reading posts and analyizing reactions that one learns the most about other players. I realize that there is also a mater of The Maths in terms of probability and what numbers of players there may be. I don't think that there are forumulae, as you suggest.

And if you were not trying to sound condescending, then I suggest examining your wording. Your post certainly sounded that way. Perhaps because of "as if that's not actually true," which implies that any experienced mafia player would know that.

Come on now we've both been snarky to each other. It comes with the territory.

Anyway if your argument to my points is "I know you're wrong about me so that means you're wrong about others" then I guess ditto.

My argument is that you're wrong about me so I know you're theory of baddie forumlae is flawed.

And I'm not denying snark. But you straight out said you weren't being condescending and I was responding to that comment. I've never denied that I've been snarky and sarcastic. There's a difference.

[MacDougall]

Apologies.

[LoRab]

No need to apologize. My skin is thicker than that. I just like when people acknowledge things. So, thanks.

[Golden]

I just looked at the map and noticed square G9 looks blown up. I think this was likely a deliberate action by a baddie, if the function of the square no longer exists. It was probably a square that baddies felt could be used against them in some way.

[LoRab]

I just looked at the map and noticed square G9 looks blown up. I think this was likely a deliberate action by a baddie, if the function of the square no longer exists. It was probably a square that baddies felt could be used against them in some way.

I think that was a result of the beacon of light explosion.

[Golden]

Yes, sorry LoRab, I did realise that I just thought everyone would understand that is what I meant.

Before I was wondering whether someone died, but I think perhaps the event was destroying the square rather than hurting any person.

[LoRab]

Yes, sorry LoRab, I did realise that I just thought everyone would understand that is what I meant.

Before I was wondering whether someone died, but I think perhaps the event was destroying the square rather than hurting any person.

Also possible it would have killed anyone on G9/G10, but no one was on either space at the time?

Do I extrapolate correctly that you are assuming that the person who caused the beacon knew what would happen?

[MacDougall]

Could also be a pre-determined game mechanism that that particular even was to occur after a certain amount of time, or as a result of a certain event being trigger.

Could also be an on the fly adjustment made by the mods to maintain game balance.

[LoRab]

Could also be a pre-determined game mechanism that that particular even was to occur after a certain amount of time, or as a result of a certain event being trigger.

Could also be an on the fly adjustment made by the mods to maintain game balance.

[LoRab]

Could also be a pre-determined game mechanism that that particular even was to occur after a certain amount of time, or as a result of a certain event being trigger.

Could also be an on the fly adjustment made by the mods to maintain game balance.

I think it's too big a thing to be an on the fly adjustment. I think these and the other ideas discussed are all possible.

[Golden]

Yes, sorry LoRab, I did realise that I just thought everyone would understand that is what I meant.

Before I was wondering whether someone died, but I think perhaps the event was destroying the square rather than hurting any person.

Also possible it would have killed anyone on G9/G10, but no one was on either space at the time?

Do I extrapolate correctly that you are assuming that the person who caused the beacon knew what would happen?

Yeah, I'm assuming the person who caused the beacon would know what would happen.

[Tranq]

If I recall correctly. he had already been recruited by me when aapje got dumped on. Typh was a civvie at that point, and oddly I was helping him work hard to save aapje since his death would make the other bad group too powerful. So let's split this on 50/50 nub Tranq

I don't recall the exact timing of his baddie-to-civvie recruitment but the point was Typhoony has atleast once heavily defended a (former)baddie teammate before

That game still gives me headaches from time to time...

[LoRab]

Yes, sorry LoRab, I did realise that I just thought everyone would understand that is what I meant.

Before I was wondering whether someone died, but I think perhaps the event was destroying the square rather than hurting any person.

Also possible it would have killed anyone on G9/G10, but no one was on either space at the time?

Do I extrapolate correctly that you are assuming that the person who caused the beacon knew what would happen?

Yeah, I'm assuming the person who caused the beacon would know what would happen.

Thanks for clarifying/confirming.

I'm not sure that's the case, but I guess we'll see.

[Long Con]

-= Double Down =-

"All my power, and I still I cannot foresee what the outcome of this struggle will be," remarked Long Con, peering down at the realm with continued interest.

"That's the point," smirked Willow. "Is there any greater form of entertainment? Besides, I am confident that evil will drag the righteous down into the mud. Look at their power!"

"And yet, champions like the elusive Feral Pixie fight on. And," his eyes widened slightly. "See there - the Tarnished Golem moves swiftly and surely, finally choosing to kill! And it kills MacDougall! The unpredictability is quite exhilarating!"

"And my precious Witherdeath Cabal are cutting down HamburgerBoy," She noted with a twisted and loving grin. "They make me so proud."

MacDougall has been killed by the Tarnished Golem. HamburgerBoy has been killed by the Witherdeath Cabal.

It is now Day 9!

[Marmot]

All the RYMers are gone.

RIP MacDougall and Burgerboy.

[MacDougall]

Oh man that sucks! My heart.

[Golden]

RIP Mac and HB. I didn't have terrible vibes about either of you.

I take it from that post that the Feral Pixie is a champion of the town? Is that what I'm supposed to take from that post?

MM - what do you think of the deaths last night. How did you feel about Mac and HB?

I still wish Dr Dre was on the poll - it would have made it easier to figure out what is going on with Turnip Head's affilition

[Sorsha]

RIPIYWG to both of you

[Marmot]

MM - what do you think of the deaths last night. How did you feel about Mac and HB?

I thought that HBoy was civ. I was indifferent on Mac. I saw reasons to trust him, but also more reasons not to.

[Sorsha]

MM - what do you think of the deaths last night. How did you feel about Mac and HB?

I thought that HBoy was civ. I was indifferent on Mac. I saw reasons to trust him, but also more reasons not to.

How happy are you that Witherdeath Cabal took HB out for you?

Is it just me or does it look like the tarnished gollum and Cabal were almost working together last night?

[Golden]

Do other people agree that the post makes it appear Feral Pixie is civilian?

linki @sorsha - I'm not sure. I could see it, Mac and HB did seem to be very linked in the thread. But, I could also see someone just seeing Mac as a genuine threat.

I'll admit, I've been focussed a bit on the beacon because its destruction blew me off course a couple of days ago. Tomorrow night I should get back to where I was originally trying to go on night 7, so at least it wasn't too bad, but it was annoying. I suspect it was splints who did it.

[Marmot]

MM - what do you think of the deaths last night. How did you feel about Mac and HB?

I thought that HBoy was civ. I was indifferent on Mac. I saw reasons to trust him, but also more reasons not to.

How happy are you that Witherdeath Cabal took HB out for you?

Is it just me or does it look like the tarnished gollum and Cabal were almost working together last night?

Why would Witherdeath Cabal take HB out for me?

[Golden]

I guess HB was after you pretty strongly? Was it him? I remember Matt F more...

[Marmot]

I guess HB was after you pretty strongly? Was it him? I remember Matt F more...

Matt F was, but he thinks I'm Dr Dre. I am most definitely not Dr Dre.

Sorsha, how do you feel about last night's kills?

[Sorsha]

Do other people agree that the post makes it appear Feral Pixie is civilian?

linki @sorsha - I'm not sure. I could see it, Mac and HB did seem to be very linked in the thread. But, I could also see someone just seeing Mac as a genuine threat.

I'll admit, I've been focussed a bit on the beacon because its destruction blew me off course a couple of days ago. Tomorrow night I should get back to where I was originally trying to go on night 7, so at least it wasn't too bad, but it was annoying. I suspect it was splints who did it.

I agree it looks like the Pixie is civ.

It looks to me like one or the other of them was on to something (maybe both were on to something). They have backed each other up in the thread before and would likely do it again. I just feel like there is some kind of trickery going on, Golden.

linki- @ MM- like Golden said, HB was after you in the thread yesterday, you only took two votes but if it weren't for the Floyd wagon it could have been more. I think they were trying to do you a favor.

[Golden]

My thoughts are pulling me in a lot of directions today.

I still think Wilgy could be the last Witherdeath, but on the other hand they don't get a kill tonight.
I think splints could have been responsible for that beacon, and I think that feels like the actions of a baddie.
And I'm tempted to vote TH, to start figuring out this Dr Dre thing, because in some ways it feels to me like it could be the most malevolent threat. As I've thought about it more over the last couple of days, TH's 'the role was civilian last game' could be him providing the most information, but it could also be him intentionally misleading.

They feel like the three I'm most suspicious of right now... so I could see my vote going any of those ways. I'm going to start with TH for now.

@Lorab - I'm also really interested to start having some convo with you today - I feel like I haven't been doing much of that yet, and I'm interested in your thoughts on the Feral Pixie, your thoughts on Mac's death - those two things in particular.

[Sorsha]

My thoughts are pulling me in a lot of directions today.

I still think Wilgy could be the last Witherdeath, but on the other hand they don't get a kill tonight.
I think splints could have been responsible for that beacon, and I think that feels like the actions of a baddie.
And I'm tempted to vote TH, to start figuring out this Dr Dre thing, because in some ways it feels to me like it could be the most malevolent threat. As I've thought about it more over the last couple of days, TH's 'the role was civilian last game' could be him providing the most information, but it could also be him intentionally misleading.

They feel like the three I'm most suspicious of right now... so I could see my vote going any of those ways. I'm going to start with TH for now.

@Lorab - I'm also really interested to start having some convo with you today - I feel like I haven't been doing much of that yet, and I'm interested in your thoughts on the Feral Pixie, your thoughts on Mac's death - those two things in particular.

I also think you should go back to the beginning and review who you think you can trust and make sure that no one is tricking you.

[Golden]

Yeah, the Trickster is out there... since someone raised the possibility of them giving someone a false ID upon lynch, but I also just realised that 'they can appear as anyone during btsc' which is also awkward... even if you thought you'd identified a player as the trickster, we might not even know who they actually are.

[Turnip Head]

Golden, I suggest you consider taking my thoughts at face value and not looking for the worst. I was not being intentionally misleading with my thoughts on the doctor. I would not have said anything about the doctor until you point blank asked me. My point was that I have no fucking idea who or of which alignment he is, I think he could be a role of any alignment, and I think a player of any alignment would target me with their role given the chance. I was not being misleading when I answered your question, you are welcome to read the original World Apart thread on LP yourself. Drezenstein was effectively the most powerful civilian in the game and had a lot of tools at his disposal to take out baddies. If you think he's bad, well I'm not saying he cant be, but it has nothing to do with me. And to say that a player who was publicly targeted with unknown effects by a role of unknown alignment is a bigger threat than what is potentially a fully complete baddie team, I don't know where to start refuting that logic. It is baseless and rooted in speculation.

Is there you're someone you're suspicious of because of how they're playing?

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace Mac and Ham.

[Turnip Head]

I also notice that Mac is the first player to be killed by the Tarnished Golem

[Golden]

Well TH perhaps I am paranoid but there a few things involved here...

You specifically raising Dr Dre not being in the poll was a ping for me. And I'm not saying you are lying about LP, I'm saying that the fact Dre was civilian in that game is convenient for you - and while I previously perceived that particular exchange as civilian looking, when I read it back I realised that if you are bad, it would really benefit you to bring up that point.

These things don't make you bad, but you have definitely earned an eye from me. I'm suspicious of several people for how they've played, and that includes you right now. But I admit, none of my suspicions are massive - they are based around theories of the game, and what is going on in it. That's just the way my brain works.

[Golden]

It's also fair for you to say I asked and you responded very completely. I recognise that is true.

[Turnip Head]

I like how you think that anything involving Dr. Dre has been convenient for me.

[LoRab]

My thoughts are pulling me in a lot of directions today.

I still think Wilgy could be the last Witherdeath, but on the other hand they don't get a kill tonight.
I think splints could have been responsible for that beacon, and I think that feels like the actions of a baddie.
And I'm tempted to vote TH, to start figuring out this Dr Dre thing, because in some ways it feels to me like it could be the most malevolent threat. As I've thought about it more over the last couple of days, TH's 'the role was civilian last game' could be him providing the most information, but it could also be him intentionally misleading.

They feel like the three I'm most suspicious of right now... so I could see my vote going any of those ways. I'm going to start with TH for now.

@Lorab - I'm also really interested to start having some convo with you today - I feel like I haven't been doing much of that yet, and I'm interested in your thoughts on the Feral Pixie, your thoughts on Mac's death - those two things in particular.

Feral pixie it certainly sounds like lc is indicating is civ. But tricksy host is tricksy and the word elusive could be making his words more ambiguous. I would say the role is either civ or Indy. And if Indy, then more civ friendly Indy

Mac's death...well, I thought he was bad, obviously, so I'm not crushed to see him gone. But he was a fun adversary, so sorry to see him gone as a player. I'm interested that golem killed him. As th pointed out, it's the first kill from that role. Does that mean that the player that role was protecting is now dead and the role is neutral? Or did the person they are watching over only recently have Mac vote for them (although I think he voted juliets the last couple of lunches, so less likely). I need to go look at the lunch polls.

[fingersplints]

RIPIYWG Mac and HB

Golden I really think that perhaps you should consider whoever set off the beacon had no idea what it would do and just had intended something good to happen because of it. You don't know whoever did its role and what they had in mind. Nothing that bad happened from it, minus losing a square, which unfortunately might have been a good square. If you take thinking I set it off out of the equation do you still think this is my baddie game?

I'm like 99% sure the Pixie is bad, so I'll be voting that way to confirm my suspicions.

Why were you so confident the pixie is bad and how does the post make you feel about this now?

[fingersplints]

Lorab - I figured she was elusive because she could only be seen by those in the same square.

[LoRab]

Lorab - I figured she was elusive because she could only be seen by those in the same square.

Yes, likely. I just take very little that this particular host says for granted or at face value. My thinking is better phrased as most likely she is civ, but there is a small glimmer of doubt that allows for doubt in my mind.

[LoRab]

I still think Wilgy could be the last Witherdeath, but on the other hand they don't get a kill tonight.

Also, I agree with this. Well, the first part. The question is if we put of lynching someone we believe is bad because they don't kill tonight in favor of a bunch of players that we are completely unsure of. And if we wait a day, and this is correct, then the other team likely inherits the kill, so it doesn't really matter what day we lynch him on. Seems risky and impractical in this particular game to count on blocking him on kill nights. Normally, I would say to hold off on lynching, but in this particular game structure, I'm leaning towards thinking we should lynch someone that we believe is bad, regardless of which team.

Sorry, up in the middle of the night with insomnia, so not sure how much sense I'm making.

[LoRab]

Also (and sorry for the plethora of posts), I am hesitant to make conclusions about TH based on Dr D. It doesn't make that much sense for that role to be on a baddie team, as that would--it would seem--potentially give them an extra kill. I'd guess the role to be indy. That said, I'm not sure I see your logic in suspecting TH because that role targeted him. Can you explain?

And...looking more at the golem role and kill. Logic is telling me that it has to be that the person the golem was protecting has died, and that's why the kills have started--and that the person didn't have any/many votes, which is why killing wasn't happening earlier. So looking at recently dead players: Possible that the role was protecting floyd, but my read of every other night initially was that it would have the first night as the other, but thinking it through, it could be that night...could be Juliets...could be DF...could be Typh...seems unlikely they were earlier than that. The question is, what living player would choose one of those players to be connected to and would then kill Mac.