Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Made]

I am telling you to vote for Enrique. What do I have to gain from this?

If he is lynched and is bad, then I get Night killed.

If he is lynched and is good, then I get lynched.

Which is par for the course for me.

Vote for Enrique.

The Suicidal Civvie Gambit. Having been on the opposite side of this gambit, i must say, you can get a very fun chain of civvies dying if you're not careful. Assuming you and Enrique are civvie, this would lead to a train of more civvies jumping on to kill the person who killed the previous civvie.

Linki- Isn't Enrique already president?

I'm not careful.

Good night.

[bea]

Hosts: Are we allowed to discuss the Day 0 poll, and any possible results of it?

I don't have any objections to it. Go for it.

And hope tomorrow is a better day for you, Enrique! Shitty days suck.

Did anyone receive any benefits or suffer any consequences as a result of the Day 0 poll? To my knowledge, I have not.

this dog is my BFF.

[Dom]

I find some of the points on Enrique to be valid. I do. However, I couldn't help but notice how hypocritical MP is being.

No. It's suspicious that he used it without any indication that he was around when it was used.

I waited until Day 1. But you, sir, are my greatest suspect.

Wow, I actually agree here.

So you agree-- Enrique is your greatest suspect.

Fair, I don't feel very strongly about this Enrique suspicion, but I do believe in it, and I do think he very well could be bad. I wouldn't have voted him if we couldn't change votes, but since we can, thought I might as well.

[quote="MovingPictures07"
So now here you go trying to subtly push that my behavior was really forced and over the top, just like Dana, yet you're "not making any accusations"?

I don't buy it.

Am I bad or not, Enri?[/quote]


Seriously?

[Canucklehead]

I've skimmed through in an attempt to catch up. Being in three games was a ridiculous choice on my part, but I am reallyreallyreally going to try not to totally bail on any games.....starting tomorrow.


Based on the last little round of insanity, my thoughts are as follows:
MP is doing too many drugs
Dana is speaking truth
Enrique has done nothing suspicious
Epi is bossy and strangely confident for Day 1 (though I get the impression that this type of confidence is really not all tht "strange" for Épi)

Un actualité not suspicieuse of Amy of the plâtres involucre in the récent brouhaha...I Will look élysée gère for m'y voté

[Canucklehead]

Fuckballs.
Phone posting and accidentally switched to the French keyboard, which is a whole new world of autocorrect insanity.

Essentially I said that I'm not suspicious of anyone involved in this recent kerfuffle, and will be looking elsewhere for suspects.

[keys56000000000]

I'm laughing here. You guys crack me up. I feel like I'm at a casino.

Epi seems like a gambler to me. He's gambling on Enri coming back mafia, in which case he'll take the glory of catching a baddie. If he comes back civvies, as I suspect he would, Epi will shrug it off unapologetically. He's going all in.

MP seems to be throwing shit to see what sticks. If people go for it, great. If they don't, or if the target successfully deflects said shit, it was never his intention to begin with. Just gauging reactions. Hedging his bets, so to speak.

I'm not voting for Enrique. If anything, I'm more convinced of his civvieness than his mafianess after this exchange.

As for Epi and MP themselves, I'm not saying that they're bad. At present I lean towards them being crazy-brave civvies.

Can someone explain what supatown means?


-----

As Splints said, we're going to be away for couple of days visiting my boi Chris. Then I have a busy day saying goodbye to in-laws and enjoying my last day in the states. Then I have a gruelling trip back home across the Pond. So don't expect anything of substance from me till Tuesday, alright? Have a good one.

[Long Con]

Hello, sorry BR and I haven't checked in yet. Very busy week, still no computer. We will catch up as soon as we can.

[Marmot]

Is no one else concerned that our hosts got killed? How are we supposed to play with dead hosts?!?! But I do love how they were all creative with the names in the poll. That is now my favorite thing about this game!

Also two votes for Enri already? You guys. I really don't see anything that weird about what's happened. I feel people may be making a big deal about tiny things.

Bingo. It was really just a bunch of bullshit, and I really have no idea if zeek is bad or not, but I won't be voting for him this time around.

Um, MP, why would you do this? It didn't go anywhere so you just decide "I'll say I was never serious in the first place!" I do not like these mind games, people should say what they mean and mean what they say.

Also what's QED?

Contrary to everyone else, I am very concerned about this. But unfortunately, my main suspicion is the unlynchable mod.

Anyway still read-read-reading. I don't have a whole lot of free time the next couple, but I'll do my best.

[Marmot]

Enrique's supposed questioning was really pointless from the start, but I interpret it as an attempt to try to get zeek to flounder, and increase suspicion on him over the coming 48 hours, because Enrique hadn't expressed a firm opinion on anyone one way or the other thus far. Even if he didn't end up voting zeek, he easily could put more suspicion on zeek with this supposed "slip" and then cause chaos for me and attempt to build off of my original 'suspicion' of zeek being bad.

I like many of your points MP, but as for this one, who has a firm opinion of another player thus far? No one really.

Also, I thought that Dana was quick to dismiss your statements about Enrique, and you were quick to acknowledge her. I found that ineraction to be strange.

[Marmot]

I'm laughing here. You guys crack me up. I feel like I'm at a casino.

Epi seems like a gambler to me. He's gambling on Enri coming back mafia, in which case he'll take the glory of catching a baddie. If he comes back civvies, as I suspect he would, Epi will shrug it off unapologetically. He's going all in.

MP seems to be throwing shit to see what sticks. If people go for it, great. If they don't, or if the target successfully deflects said shit, it was never his intention to begin with. Just gauging reactions. Hedging his bets, so to speak.

I'm not voting for Enrique. If anything, I'm more convinced of his civvieness than his mafianess after this exchange.

As for Epi and MP themselves, I'm not saying that they're bad. At present I lean towards them being crazy-brave civvies.

Can someone explain what supatown means?


-----

As Splints said, we're going to be away for couple of days visiting my boi Chris. Then I have a busy day saying goodbye to in-laws and enjoying my last day in the states. Then I have a gruelling trip back home across the Pond. So don't expect anything of substance from me till Tuesday, alright? Have a good one.

But in mafia, there is no happily ever after. Everyone can't be a civvie variation.

I would like to hear you expound on the bolded bit when you get the chance.

[zeek]

"Supatown" has been used twice in this thread... once by Made, as a standard LD statement, and then zeek using it "in llama's words." Zeek, this is your first game here, right? Not even a Side Mission before? Caught on quickly to the lingo. Is this something you learnt from your BTSC partners?

It's something I learnt reading Felt Mafia while I was waiting for this to start. Only started following half way through though. As you'll notice from the poll on that thread, I voted first, so I haven't done that now to cover my back.

[zeek]

So, I understand why Enrique asked but his motives have come under question. I'm on the fence. I expected someone to go for me for using "Supatown" but I didn't expect them to drop it so easily.

Part of me thinks the mafia teams are staying quiet.

[Turnip Head]

After finally catching up on the the entire thread, I think MP is pinging me the most. Sensing a lot of things about him that concern me so far. DAE get those feels?

[Turnip Head]

Also y no turnipz on the poll hosts :o

[S~V~S]

My initial reaction to MP was that he was being a bit manic, but had been being so in the sign up thread, indeed, all over the site; playing thread games, posting random, etc. But if the whole Zeek thing was a "gambit" (so gimmicky, lol) and now the Enrique thing, I don't know. I need to see if he settles down or not, or if he moves his vote. If this was a permanent vote poll, that vote would look a lot worse to me.

But when people push suspicions, and then drop them, saying things like, "Oh I just did it to gauge reactions", it almost always feels bad to me. Especially MP, with his whole <3 distancing thing.

This.

You know, I'm usually on SVS's side whenever she has the argument with Epig, but I really would've liked to see zeek's response here

I'll take it, though. That'd be a really weird thing to slip on.

I tried that in Monty Python. I might have gotten away with it, but I got Night killed.

You however, are saying the exact same thing I said. S~V~S even referenced it.

Indeed I did, but in reference to something totally different It was rather a notable baddiesque move on your part, IMO. I will likely reference it in every game for the rest of forever. Supressing evidence that could exonerate someone, or tend that way, does not seem like something civs should do, or advocate. And it wasn't. Although as an SK, you would have had similar motivations to those a civ would have, so I chalk it up to being Epi. It explains to me why you always win when bad, but never when civ.

[zeek]

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

[Made]

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

MP played it in a way where the argument was pretty shitty and shouldn't of sticked, and it didn't. My thing is, MP, how did you expect us to respond to you suspicion of Zeek in regards to yourself?

[sabie12]

Ugh looks like I missed a ton the past couple days. I'll have to do some catching up on what's going on.

[Tangrowth]

I find some of the points on Enrique to be valid. I do. However, I couldn't help but notice how hypocritical MP is being.

No. It's suspicious that he used it without any indication that he was around when it was used.

I waited until Day 1. But you, sir, are my greatest suspect.

Wow, I actually agree here.

So you agree-- Enrique is your greatest suspect.

Fair, I don't feel very strongly about this Enrique suspicion, but I do believe in it, and I do think he very well could be bad. I wouldn't have voted him if we couldn't change votes, but since we can, thought I might as well.

So now here you go trying to subtly push that my behavior was really forced and over the top, just like Dana, yet you're "not making any accusations"?

I don't buy it.

Am I bad or not, Enri?

Seriously?

I'm confused, Dom, what do you find hypocritical? Is it not possible that I find Enri my greatest suspicion and yet I don't feel very strongly about it? Especially this early on?

Or... are you talking about something else?

Is no one else concerned that our hosts got killed? How are we supposed to play with dead hosts?!?! But I do love how they were all creative with the names in the poll. That is now my favorite thing about this game!

Also two votes for Enri already? You guys. I really don't see anything that weird about what's happened. I feel people may be making a big deal about tiny things.

Bingo. It was really just a bunch of bullshit, and I really have no idea if zeek is bad or not, but I won't be voting for him this time around.

Um, MP, why would you do this? It didn't go anywhere so you just decide "I'll say I was never serious in the first place!" I do not like these mind games, people should say what they mean and mean what they say.

Also what's QED?

Contrary to everyone else, I am very concerned about this. But unfortunately, my main suspicion is the unlynchable mod.

Anyway still read-read-reading. I don't have a whole lot of free time the next couple, but I'll do my best.

Why are you very concerned about this? Why am I your main suspicion?

After finally catching up on the the entire thread, I think MP is pinging me the most. Sensing a lot of things about him that concern me so far. DAE get those feels?

Same question to TH and S~V~S.

Tell me this: How do my actions make me bad? Because I'm "manic"? Seriously, give me a good reason, because you haven't, and you seem to be wanting to set us up for ANOTHER Day 1 MP lynch, only this time it'll be a civvie.

In fact, I'm disappointed in you, S~V~S, because I thought you could tell the difference between my civvie and baddie games.

And why am I pinging you the most, TH, or are you just going to keep throwing crap out there? "Sensing a lot of things about him that concern me so far"?

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

Zeek, my case was totally bogus, which you obviously pointed out. AND I clearly said MULTIPLE TIMES that I wasn't crusading you as bad nor did I even really find you bad. There was no way that was going to blow up to anything.

The minute anyone seriously believed to me I was going to turn it onto them for agreeing with a bullshit case.

It's not irresponsible play. You tell me this: How many people think you're bad right now? In fact, I probably helped your reputation more than anyone else in this thread right now. Am I not right?

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

MP played it in a way where the argument was pretty shitty and shouldn't of sticked, and it didn't. My thing is, MP, how did you expect us to respond to you suspicion of Zeek in regards to yourself?

You know, Made, that's a really good question -- I'm not sure what I expected. I suppose I did at least expect someone to say I was bad or that zeek was bad by jumping onto it, but I didn't get any of those reactions really, though now that it's actually Day 1 apparently people are now trying to make a lynch out of me.

[Tangrowth]

Oh nevermind MM, correct me if I'm wrong, but by unlynchable mod, you meant llama not me, didn't you? LOL. My bad. :P

[Tangrowth]

I was so confused... I was going to say, in what way am I really unlynchable? Anyway, my question still stands.

And I'm temporarily changing my vote to Turnip Head for basically saying I'm pinging him all over the place and not giving a single concrete reason. I don't feel confident in Enrique at the moment anymore.

[Tangrowth]

Sorry for the multiple posts... WTF TH isn't on the poll???

Well, I'll change to myself for now then, that way I know I have to re-evaluate.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I have a ton to catch up on

[juliets]

Epignosis in answer to the question about why you voted Enrique you referred us back to a post where MP made comments about what he saw about Enrique. Are you trying to say you have the same reasons? Can you just list the reasons in your post so this won't be so confusing? It should be no problem since you so recently voted for him.

[keys56000000000]

I'm laughing here. You guys crack me up. I feel like I'm at a casino.

Epi seems like a gambler to me. He's gambling on Enri coming back mafia, in which case he'll take the glory of catching a baddie. If he comes back civvies, as I suspect he would, Epi will shrug it off unapologetically. He's going all in.

MP seems to be throwing shit to see what sticks. If people go for it, great. If they don't, or if the target successfully deflects said shit, it was never his intention to begin with. Just gauging reactions. Hedging his bets, so to speak.

I'm not voting for Enrique. If anything, I'm more convinced of his civvieness than his mafianess after this exchange.

As for Epi and MP themselves, I'm not saying that they're bad. At present I lean towards them being crazy-brave civvies.

Can someone explain what supatown means?


-----

As Splints said, we're going to be away for couple of days visiting my boi Chris. Then I have a busy day saying goodbye to in-laws and enjoying my last day in the states. Then I have a gruelling trip back home across the Pond. So don't expect anything of substance from me till Tuesday, alright? Have a good one.

But in mafia, there is no happily ever after. Everyone can't be a civvie variation.

True, but it's not like we've even had everyone check in yet. Most players haven't posted anything of substance. This smacks of jumping the gun.

I would like to hear you expound on the bolded bit when you get the chance.

Ok, well,

A) I just don't see the suspicion in him as posited by others. Might be because I don't get this "supatown" thing, but I just don't buy it, at all. It really just seems like a wild gamble from wild players.
B) Enrique's defence had a frustrated tone to it, which is hard to fake.

He may well be faking it, hell, the suspicion on him may well be apt, I just heavily lean away from that viewpoint.

[fingersplints]

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

Zeek, my case was totally bogus, which you obviously pointed out. AND I clearly said MULTIPLE TIMES that I wasn't crusading you as bad nor did I even really find you bad. There was no way that was going to blow up to anything.

The minute anyone seriously believed to me I was going to turn it onto them for agreeing with a bullshit case.

It's not irresponsible play. You tell me this: How many people think you're bad right now? In fact, I probably helped your reputation more than anyone else in this thread right now. Am I not right?

But, people get lynched for nothing Day 1 all the time. I don't think there is anyway you could have predicted the thread would swing this way. I think I am more surprised at your choice of target then anything. If it was nothing and not something you were seriously trying to point out, why not pick on someone not new to the site and returning to mafia after years of not playing? I don't know. Just seems a bit of a weird way to welcome someone.

[Marmot]

Oh nevermind MM, correct me if I'm wrong, but by unlynchable mod, you meant llama not me, didn't you? LOL. My bad. :P

Yes, I was speaking about my worry of the hosts being killed. I swear man, you're paranoid today.

[Marmot]

I'm laughing here. You guys crack me up. I feel like I'm at a casino.

Epi seems like a gambler to me. He's gambling on Enri coming back mafia, in which case he'll take the glory of catching a baddie. If he comes back civvies, as I suspect he would, Epi will shrug it off unapologetically. He's going all in.

MP seems to be throwing shit to see what sticks. If people go for it, great. If they don't, or if the target successfully deflects said shit, it was never his intention to begin with. Just gauging reactions. Hedging his bets, so to speak.

I'm not voting for Enrique. If anything, I'm more convinced of his civvieness than his mafianess after this exchange.

As for Epi and MP themselves, I'm not saying that they're bad. At present I lean towards them being crazy-brave civvies.

Can someone explain what supatown means?


-----

As Splints said, we're going to be away for couple of days visiting my boi Chris. Then I have a busy day saying goodbye to in-laws and enjoying my last day in the states. Then I have a gruelling trip back home across the Pond. So don't expect anything of substance from me till Tuesday, alright? Have a good one.

But in mafia, there is no happily ever after. Everyone can't be a civvie variation.

True, but it's not like we've even had everyone check in yet. Most players haven't posted anything of substance. This smacks of jumping the gun.

Indeed, and you're talking about the Enrique bit, right?

[bea]

Oopsies!!! Sorry about that guys. Somehow I missed TH

If you do vote for him (And you totes can if you want) please vote for him in the thread in BRIGHT AND BOLD RED SO I CAN SEE IT!!

Thanks so much for your patience while I knock the nub off myself. You all rock!

[Roxy]

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

Zeek, my case was totally bogus, which you obviously pointed out. AND I clearly said MULTIPLE TIMES that I wasn't crusading you as bad nor did I even really find you bad. There was no way that was going to blow up to anything.

The minute anyone seriously believed to me I was going to turn it onto them for agreeing with a bullshit case.

It's not irresponsible play. You tell me this: How many people think you're bad right now? In fact, I probably helped your reputation more than anyone else in this thread right now. Am I not right?

But, people get lynched for nothing Day 1 all the time. I don't think there is anyway you could have predicted the thread would swing this way. I think I am more surprised at your choice of target then anything. If it was nothing and not something you were seriously trying to point out, why not pick on someone not new to the site and returning to mafia after years of not playing? I don't know. Just seems a bit of a weird way to welcome someone.

I totes agree with everything splints says here. What a welcome to the site. Same thing happened in Felt mafia between sabie and llama. I asked him to give her a day or so to become accustomed to the site. At least he relented realizing that it wasn't a very warm welcome. Guess what - she was civ. It is irresponsible play if you want him to come back and play another game. It was only day 0! LOL

Also you may not have said he was bad but you did agree with what I said about if you had nothing else to vote on you would vote zeek. So that is basically saying he is bad without actually saying he is bad. Riding the fence .

I do not see the Enrique thing as anymore different than what MP did. I find it hilarious that MP finds Enrique suspicious for doing the same thing he did.

Don't know who I am voting for yet I will wait - we have time.

[juliets]

I read back what I saw others say about enrique and I just want to verify that the only things he did were question zeek about supatown (which i still have no idea what it means) and say that he always see's SVS and Epi's behavior this way yet he hasn't played with us for a year or two. Is there something else out there that he did that I'm missing? I know there were some long posts and maybe I didn't get the jist of something. Frankly I see the SVS comment as more suspicious but that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to vote for him right now.

We are really missing a lot of people who are not talking at all which always makes me nervous.

[Tangrowth]

Rox, I'm glad you find it "hilarious" that I find Enrique suspicious. If you'd pay attention closely, I've almost all abandoned my suspicion of Enrique after letting the facts sink in. Even still, he did NOT do the same thing as me. Wow, Enrique and I both questioned something totally different in zeek's posts, we must both be doing the same thing!!! Except not at all. Enrique didn't even say zeek was bad. The situations are so totally different it's not even funny. Why are you trying to say they are?

Okay, well I may have been "riding the fence" but I already said I was trying to get people talking because that's how you catch baddies. What have you done? You still don't even say if you think ANYONE is bad, you're just "oh, we have time". So don't criticize me for my methods please. I'll play my way and you can play yours.

Re: MP's ruse.

If every player had agreed with him, I'd be getting lynched and there would be nothing he could have done to change that. It's irresponsible play if he's a townie because I did nothing to deserve a target on my back.

Zeek, my case was totally bogus, which you obviously pointed out. AND I clearly said MULTIPLE TIMES that I wasn't crusading you as bad nor did I even really find you bad. There was no way that was going to blow up to anything.

The minute anyone seriously believed to me I was going to turn it onto them for agreeing with a bullshit case.

It's not irresponsible play. You tell me this: How many people think you're bad right now? In fact, I probably helped your reputation more than anyone else in this thread right now. Am I not right?

But, people get lynched for nothing Day 1 all the time. I don't think there is anyway you could have predicted the thread would swing this way. I think I am more surprised at your choice of target then anything. If it was nothing and not something you were seriously trying to point out, why not pick on someone not new to the site and returning to mafia after years of not playing? I don't know. Just seems a bit of a weird way to welcome someone.

True, I had absolutely no way of knowing how the thread would take it, but I already explained my thought process.

WTF I was not "picking on" anyone, and you act like I gave it a TON of thought. I wasn't looking for a way to screw with someone. I just read zeek's post, I was REALLY excited to start discussion, and then came up with the gambit thinking it would be an effective way to gauge people's reactions and get people talking, which was way better than everyone just posting on Day 1 "Well I have no idea who to vote for because nothing significant has happened so I'm just going to randomize!!" That tells us nothing almost all of the time.

Go ahead and disagree with my playstyle. People disagree with me ALL the time. I don't care. But it does not make me bad.

I'm not here to hold everyone's hand and welcome them all to a game of mafia. This is mafia. It's not personal. I see something worth discussing, I discuss it. I don't hold back. I'm sick of people holding back all the time because that's how baddies win; I've seen it so many times. Civvies just fly through the game too afraid to make accusations or start discussion because they're afraid of being wrong. I don't play that way, ever, and I never will. Other people can if they want; I'm not telling anyone else how to play, but I play my way.

I play this way all the time. So anyone insinuating that just because I am PLAYING THE GAME that it makes me bad and because they don't understand my perspective, well, sorry, I am not a wordsmith, I am an accountant. I can't explain things super well all the time. I come up with crazy theories and gambits because I'm paranoid as fuck and I love playing the game. If you don't understand me or you disagree with my methods, fine, but I'm sick of being eyeballed just because I'm intense and I did something to get people talking.

How else are we supposed to uncover baddie behavior?

I'm sorry if my tone comes across defensive but I'm sick of people insinuating my playstyle is "hilarious" or "irresponsible" just because they think differently than I do. Honestly it comes across as insulting. If you disagree with me, just say it, don't try to lynch me because you think I'm nuts or whatever.

[Tangrowth]

Enrique's defenses came across as genuine to me, so I'm willing to reconsider that he wasn't being nefarious in trying to inquire about the zeek supatown thing, the whole ordeal just struck me as super shady at the time.

I have classes the rest of the day, so whatever, I'm just going to take a deep breath and come back and re-evaluate after all of this because I'm sort of upset at the moment.

[juliets]

Epignosis, I would like you to take a look at my post about what the Enrique suspision is all about and tell me if you would add anything to it.

[zeek]

I have a seriously case of man flu going on, so I doubt I'll be able to stay awake from the lynch at 2am. Going to take the next few hours to consider things.

MP - My manic adversary obviously hasn't endeared me to him. I just can't tell whether I believe him and, even if I do, is there anybody I'd vote for over him?

Enrique - The more I think about it, the more undecided I am. I'm leaning civ tho. I'd have liked to answer him myself but he dropped it so quickly it didn't seem as though it was a baddie looking for a quick bandwagon.

SVS - Been getting weird vibes from you. This comment seemed aimed at me when I was under scrutiny from MP. and then your exchange with Made over quote didn't really seem genuine either. I don't know what to think.

They're the three I'm looking at right now. Easily subject to change and I don't know where my vote will go.

[S~V~S]

I think there is a difference between decoding civvie secrets that are known to be attached to civvie roles, and speculating on unknown roles and what their powers might be. I don't think that helps the baddies, as they can speculate as well, and more openly with less distraction in that evil chatroom. I would be more worried about Who freak baddies trying to overspeculate baddie roles and misdirecting the thread that way, actually.

Yes zeek, this was aimed at you. What is the problem with it?

And what do you mean by "not genuine"? Do you think it was staged?

[Epignosis]

Epignosis in answer to the question about why you voted Enrique you referred us back to a post where MP made comments about what he saw about Enrique. Are you trying to say you have the same reasons? Can you just list the reasons in your post so this won't be so confusing? It should be no problem since you so recently voted for him.

I don't recall referencing anything MP said about Enrique. Enrique did something very specific I did recently when I was bad, and some of his posts don't sound genuine to me.

Epignosis, I would like you to take a look at my post about what the Enrique suspision is all about and tell me if you would add anything to it.

Not really, other than the above.

Unrelated to Enrique, I had found this post eye-worthy:

Personally I am more interested in Zeek based on Mades defense of him. I was kinda doing the "well it's day zero" thing, but this whole conversation is odd. He says he is NOT defending Zeek, but it really feels as if he is.

That seems backwards to me. It is more suspicious to defend someone in the thread than it is to be defended by someone. The reason is simple: Mafia know who is not them, so they could easily defend a civilian.

So why would S~V~S be more interested in the individual getting defended rather than the one doing the defending?

[S~V~S]

Zeek, Did you think I was saying YOU were s Who freak baddie? That was a general obsetvation , not a comment on you. I was offering my opinion on the discussion; the post directly before that one was a post of yours.

[S~V~S]

I feel a bit tag teamed here,Lol.

[zeek]

Zeek, Did you think I was saying YOU were s Who freak baddie? That was a general obsetvation , not a comment on you. I was offering my opinion on the discussion; the post directly before that one was a post of yours.

Yes, as the post was directed at me surely it's implied I am a Who freak baddie? Also implied I'm misleading the thread with my speculation and I don't feel I have. Most of it is pretty obvious speculation, but stuff I wanted to share with the non-Whovian players.

Your back and forth with Made doesn't belong. You could have easily found my quote yourself and you did, you say, at the same time as Made. But surely you could and should have found it quicker than that. May have been staged, may not have been. But it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Turnip Head]

I'll highlight three posts from MP that make me feel like he's being disingenuous. Here's the post where he first brings up Zeek:

Consequently, while I do believe you have some logical and astute observations, in the end, I question the true intent behind your post. I've seen baddies (and I always try to do this myself as bad) who try to appear as helpful as possible but while simultaneously causing unnecessary paranoia, so just because I find myself agreeing with you, when I read your post part of me wondered if you are trying to set up misconceptions and paranoia.

Did anyone else get this stroke of paranoid thought or was it just me?

Never too early to start suspicion discussion, am I right?

Sounds like MP thought out his suspicion of Zeek's motives pretty thoroughly in that post, and then asks if anyone agrees with him. So what exactly is MP looking for with this so-called gambit?

Then, when pressed about it by Dana, here's MP's further explanation of his gambit move:

And Dana (or anyone else that is wondering), I just want to clarify that I know my gambit was risky, but I highly doubted anyone would take the bait, but on the off chance it did happen, I totally wanted to catch someone jumping onto a bullshit bandwagon. It was really just a beginning move and I don't have any intentions on regularly lying about my suspicions. :P There's a reason I kept emphasizing my suspicion on zeek was essentially equivalent to me randomly voting to find a baddie, and that's because that's exactly how I felt. So to be fair, it wasn't really that crazy of a gambit, I just wanted to see how everyone would react.

MP says he highly doubted anyone would take his bait, and that it was a bullshit bandwagon. So now MP is completely stepping away from his earlier point of view, he's doing a complete 180, he's saying his thoughts on Zeek were bullshit and he was hoping people would hop on the bandwagon he started, thereby revealing their bad selves. It just doesn't feel like civvie MP to me. It's too calculated, and requires him using Zeek as a pawn in his gambit, which doesn't seem like brotherly civvie love. I do not see a civvie MP "using" a fellow player in such a manner, especially this early and basically out of the blue.

Here's the post where MP first cites his actions as a gambit in order to start suspecting Enrique.

Bingo. It was really just a bunch of bullshit, and I really have no idea if zeek is bad or not, but I won't be voting for him this time around.

Um, MP, why would you do this? It didn't go anywhere so you just decide "I'll say I was never serious in the first place!" I do not like these mind games, people should say what they mean and mean what they say.

It was a gambit. I shook the tree up. I wanted to find baddies. I believe I have now. So it worked much better than just sitting and twiddling my thumbs, waiting for shit to happen.

He flip flops all over the Zeek thing, not taking responsibility for his own suspicion of Zeek and instead covering it up as a gambit... then used that gambit to go after Enrique instead, under even more dubious pretenses. None of this screams civvie perspective to me.

[S~V~S]

Zeek, Did you think I was saying YOU were s Who freak baddie? That was a general obsetvation , not a comment on you. I was offering my opinion on the discussion; the post directly before that one was a post of yours.

Yes, as the post was directed at me surely it's implied I am a Who freak baddie? Also implied I'm misleading the thread with my speculation and I don't feel I have. Most of it is pretty obvious speculation, but stuff I wanted to share with the non-Whovian players.

Your back and forth with Made doesn't belong. You could have easily found my quote yourself and you did, you say, at the same time as Made. But surely you could and should have found it quicker than that. May have been staged, may not have been. But it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Um, no, I was discussing your opinion on talking about secrets. That is why it was directed at you.

A tad paranoid methinks.

[juliets]

TH, when you are talking about "gambit" I get the impression it is the same thing as making a bullshit move, but then again your use of the word gambit makes me think it means something special. What does "gambit" mean to you as used in this MP discussion? And you brought up some points that I hadn't really thought about in the way you stated them.

[zeek]

So you think I'm paranoid for thinking for what I think, given that this post was directed at me:

I think there is a difference between decoding civvie secrets that are known to be attached to civvie roles, and speculating on unknown roles and what their powers might be. I don't think that helps the baddies, as they can speculate as well, and more openly with less distraction in that evil chatroom. I would be more worried about Who freak baddies trying to overspeculate baddie roles and misdirecting the thread that way, actually.

Only me and MP speculated on baddie role secrets, and you weren't worried about him.

[Turnip Head]

@Juliets: MP and others described his move as a gambit which is why I put it in quotations, but to me that's a misnomer. I think it was baddie-motivated entrapment. And I think he's calling it a gambit to cover up his perceived misfire at Zeek, and is now using that as an excuse to develop suspicions on Enrique. I think SVS pretty accurately described this type of behavior as "manic". Not getting civvie vibes from MP at all.

[Made]

TH, when you are talking about "gambit" I get the impression it is the same thing as making a bullshit move, but then again your use of the word gambit makes me think it means something special. What does "gambit" mean to you as used in this MP discussion? And you brought up some points that I hadn't really thought about in the way you stated them.

Gambits (in terms of chess anyways) is a move where you give up something (normally a piece or positioning) In hopes of gaining something later. Tons of fun when executed well in mafia. The important thing to realize where the gambit actually lies in this scenario.

when MP faked his opinions on Zeek with the intent of gaining information two things could of happened( that i could think of anyways....)
If it succeeds: MP gains reads on people that could directly lead to a lynch

If it fails: MP has to reveal that he changed his mind, and looks like a baddie attempting to bail on a bad lynch

Imo, he screwed up twice: He showed his hand too early and didn't account enough for the fact that people don't like to be manipulated.

There's always the possibility that he did actually distrust zeek at the beginning of the game for the reasons he stated, but based on how odd the argument against Zeek was, i find that unlikely as asking about roles isn't very suspicious imo.

linki- If civvie vibes existed everyone would have them.

[Made]

I can edit my post???

[juliets]

@Juliets: MP and others described his move as a gambit which is why I put it in quotations, but to me that's a misnomer. I think it was baddie-motivated entrapment. And I think he's calling it a gambit to cover up his perceived misfire at Zeek, and is now using that as an excuse to develop suspicions on Enrique. I think SVS pretty accurately described this type of behavior as "manic". Not getting civvie vibes from MP at all.

Ok TH, I had forgotten MP said that first and thanks for the explanation.

[juliets]

TH, when you are talking about "gambit" I get the impression it is the same thing as making a bullshit move, but then again your use of the word gambit makes me think it means something special. What does "gambit" mean to you as used in this MP discussion? And you brought up some points that I hadn't really thought about in the way you stated them.

Gambits (in terms of chess anyways) is a move where you give up something (normally a piece or positioning) In hopes of gaining something later. Tons of fun when executed well in mafia. The important thing to realize where the gambit actually lies in this scenario.

when MP faked his opinions on Zeek with the intent of gaining information two things could of happened( that i could think of anyways....)
If it succeeds: MP gains reads on people that could directly lead to a lynch

If it fails: MP has to reveal that he changed his mind, and looks like a baddie attempting to bail on a bad lynch

Imo, he screwed up twice: He showed his hand too early and didn't account enough for the fact that people don't like to be manipulated.

There's always the possibility that he did actually distrust zeek at the beginning of the game for the reasons he stated, but based on how odd the argument against Zeek was, i find that unlikely as asking about roles isn't very suspicious imo.

linki- If civvie vibes existed everyone would have them.

Also thanks to you made - helped me to understand what gambit means.

And no, sorry you cannot edit posts. Thats a rule that extends to all mafia on this site no matter what your permissions are.

[zeek]

I'm voting now, because I want to go to bed and sleep off my flu some more.

Weighing up everything that has happened, I'm voting MP.

I don't have much to say about this really. I haven't got enough of a reason to vote for anybody else instead. I don't like being chosen for his ruse, if indeed that's what it was, and I think that is doubtful. I'm new here and probably a bit easier to lynch on day 1 than others. His actions have felt least civ like so far to me. Sure he's stimulated debate but the way he's gone about it is manipulative and unfair. And that's if I believe his story of it being a "gambit."