Death Note Mafia [END]

[boo]

I guess we would be putting a lot of trust in L... But that might be exactly what it takes to win.

It could work, my point is simply that normal voting is balanced around giving both sides a fair chance of winning, while (imo obviously), the L/Light option inherently gives the advantage to the side that can make the best use of it, and I think the mafia in general benefit far more from controlling things behind the scenes since that's what they're all about.

[DharmaHelper]

Oh wow. It's Day 0 and we already have discussion ripe. And even an accusation of potential baddieness from Epig directed at Rico! This is going to be so exciting!

I'm in between the L/Light and Normal options. Currently leaning towards Normal because I think it would give us more information than the L/Light option would. Unless we could figure out a way to determine which people L and Light are picking. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I'll think over my decision for now.

If we went with the L/Light option, We would have more to work with in regards to voting patterns and lynches. Closer votes would yield more information, as Made said. If someone ends up lynched who shouldn't be, that would provide us insight. Likewise, if the lynch proceeds as expected, there is something to be said about that.

I get that we might have more to work with with voting patterns and lynches. But wouldn't it technically take longer to gather said info since only L and Light are the two who know which votes do and don't count? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way?

Initially, only L and Light know who are on their individual lists. But after the lynches, I'm certain it could be deduced who was on one list, no lists, or both lists. Maybe not specifically which players, but it would be possible to say "someone in this group" or something. For example, if Someone in second place is lynched, its likely that that person had boosted voters, or the first place guy had negated voters, or both. It's a bit of homework, but its not impossible.

One more thing before I go: Vanilla lynching affords us one significant disadvantage that i can see, and that is that in the event of lynch fuckery, we will have basically no idea how or why the lynch went tits up. The L/Light mechanic gives us a known quanitity, from which deductions can be made and conclusions drawn.

Except if roles have lynch manipulation included in their secrets, it would be unreasonable to undo all of that with the effects of a D0 poll making those powers worthless. It seems to me you're assuming stuff like the +5 vote would somehow be negated in the L/Light choice, but I don't see why you think that's the case since including lynch manipulation in roles only to allow it to become potentially irrelevant doesn't seem like something MP would do. So the known quantity wouldn't be the case at all, it would just be something else to mess up with understanding lynch results.

I also think you're putting way to much trust in one civvie. If L ends up trusting bad information, going after the wrong people, trusting the wrong people, etc, going with L/Light would let Light run every lynch however they want. The whole advantage civvies have over baddies is numbers, and while that's less true in this game than a typical one, it is still the case assuming the two teams of 7 need each other dead to win. Letting L have the kind of power that option would give them would essentially undo the numerical advantage and instead rely entirely upon their judgement, and especially in the early game, that would likely lead to the death of civvies if there are even small errors in judgement on L's part. Then, unlike a normal game where civvies botching early lynches is normal and can be recovered from, once a few are out of, Light can pretty much run lynches however they like, especially if they can sus out who L is (which, imo, would be easier than normally figuring out a persons role, since they'll have the most accurate idea of both lists) and then spin that to their advantage by not killing L until as many other civvies are dead as possible.

All that to say, I have more trust in the masses than I do letting lynches be decided 50/50 by a baddie and a civvie, with the baddie imo holding the information advantage, especially in the early game.

I think it really needs to come down to people putting themselves in the shoes of the two roles. If I were L and the option won, I wouldn't be pleased with the responsibility of having my judgement become so important to the point of other civvies judgement and choices becoming irrelevant at my whim (not just civvies ofc, but it would be mostly blind luck to get the right people on my list or not). On the other hand, as Light, I would be more than happy to have that kind of early game power, since I can effectively use it to keep myself from getting lynched as long as I can get through D1 and get proper reads on the minds of people, and I really don't care who gets lynched as long as it isn't one of 7 out of 27 roles.

If L works out who Ide is, or at least who Ide is NOT, and has people who support him/don't suspect him in the thread, buffing their votes by placing them on the list will help negate Ide's vote should Ide decide to vote for L. That's how I view it, anyway. And giving Light the ability to make the entire mafia uberstrong voters doesn't seem like something MP would do willy nilly either.

My point is exactly that. Light and probably some other people have secret vote manipulation and therefore carry an advantage. the L/Light list mechanic forces Light to have to think and rethink and puts a wrench in some of that manipulation by valuing/devaluing votes. It also allows L and the civvies to buff their own votes. Don't forget, Light has to put HALF the list of players on his list. He has to. Which means even if he does have BTSC with his team eventually, more often than not he's likely to buff at least a few civvies in the early stages of things.

[Turnip Head]

Even if L doesn't figure out exactly who Ide is, letting L decide which votes count would help protect him from the +5 hit.

[boo]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

[boo]

Even if L doesn't figure out exactly who Ide is, letting L decide which votes count would help protect him from the +5 hit.

Which just brings us back to which of the two would have an easier time making the right judgement calls bts, since anything L does can be screwed up if Light is on their game.

[DharmaHelper]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.

For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

[Long Con]

I can see both sides of it. I'm happy with my vote, but won't be disappointed if normal lynch wins either.

Ultimately I understand if a normal lynch wins out, But I'm very hopeful that it doesn't. Every bit of me wants this game to be challenging and unique and fun and I'm literally electric with excitement at the idea of that L/Light mechanic.

As I was reading through, I was glad to see this post, because I feel the same way and I thought maybe Normal would win out. I plan to vote this way, but I need to do a more complete reading of roles first, so I'm fully informed.

[boo]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.

For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

I don't agree that it's cynicism. Mafia have an easier time controlling things that go on outside of the thread because that is the inherent advantage of being mafia. This option brings more of the control of lynches outside of the thread, and is therefore inherently to the advantage of the mafia. It requires a higher degree of luck and skill to be used effectively by L than it does by Light, and if L demonstrates that luck and skill early on, then Light can use the old stand by of just night killing the problem out of existence to get back on track. If L does not demonstrate (or have) that luck and skill, then the mafia can quickly control the game to the point where the other team may be a concern (balance), but the civvie chance of recovery is pretty much zero.

[boo]

Not to mention the other major flaw. MP is giving choice here. If we all decided to be insane and voted nihilistic, it would of course be unbalanced, because that's exactly what we would have signed up for. Letting people choose is all the balance MP needs to apply to this situation, and your expecting more than that could really blow up in your face.

[Zombarella]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.


For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

I don't agree that it's cynicism. Mafia have an easier time controlling things that go on outside of the thread because that is the inherent advantage of being mafia. This option brings more of the control of lynches outside of the thread, and is therefore inherently to the advantage of the mafia. It requires a higher degree of luck and skill to be used effectively by L than it does by Light, and if L demonstrates that luck and skill early on, then Light can use the old stand by of just night killing the problem out of existence to get back on track. If L does not demonstrate (or have) that luck and skill, then the mafia can quickly control the game to the point where the other team may be a concern (balance), but the civvie chance of recovery is pretty much zero.

Your assessment is astute. I wonder if those you are arguing against understand your logic, agree with it, and are fine with it because they are in fact mafia...
Also, don't give the baddies good ideas.

[DharmaHelper]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.

For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

I don't agree that it's cynicism. Mafia have an easier time controlling things that go on outside of the thread because that is the inherent advantage of being mafia. This option brings more of the control of lynches outside of the thread, and is therefore inherently to the advantage of the mafia. It requires a higher degree of luck and skill to be used effectively by L than it does by Light, and if L demonstrates that luck and skill early on, then Light can use the old stand by of just night killing the problem out of existence to get back on track. If L does not demonstrate (or have) that luck and skill, then the mafia can quickly control the game to the point where the other team may be a concern (balance), but the civvie chance of recovery is pretty much zero.

Assuming Light can A) Find and B) Successfully NK L

How does L making poor judgement calls early translate into those two things being any more/ any less likely? I disagree that mafia are somehow going to be "better" at this because it happens outside of the thread. I also disagree that this is a strictly outside of the thread occurrence. As I've said it may take some legwork but the lynch votes can be used to figure out who was on what list if any, and that information can be used to damage Light.

[boo]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.

For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

I don't agree that it's cynicism. Mafia have an easier time controlling things that go on outside of the thread because that is the inherent advantage of being mafia. This option brings more of the control of lynches outside of the thread, and is therefore inherently to the advantage of the mafia. It requires a higher degree of luck and skill to be used effectively by L than it does by Light, and if L demonstrates that luck and skill early on, then Light can use the old stand by of just night killing the problem out of existence to get back on track. If L does not demonstrate (or have) that luck and skill, then the mafia can quickly control the game to the point where the other team may be a concern (balance), but the civvie chance of recovery is pretty much zero.

Assuming Light can A) Find and B) Successfully NK L

How does L making poor judgement calls early translate into those two things being any more/ any less likely? I disagree that mafia are somehow going to be "better" at this because it happens outside of the thread. I also disagree that this is a strictly outside of the thread occurrence. As I've said it may take some legwork but the lynch votes can be used to figure out who was on what list if any, and that information can be used to damage Light.

Yes.

It doesn't. L making poor judgement calls mean Light doesn't need to kill them. L making good judgement calls will be reflected by the result of the lynches, and I believe would make it easier to find L. Killing them would then just be a matter of timing.

I don't agree with the idea that it would be more useful to the civs and help them find Light. They can't know who put who on which list or any of that, so unless Light or their started BTSC partner got lynched, I don't see what information you could expect to get from an L/Light controlled lynch that would put you in a better situation than a lynch decided everyone equally (once manipulation is accounted for, which I think is easier without the list further muddying things up).

[boo]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.


For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

I don't agree that it's cynicism. Mafia have an easier time controlling things that go on outside of the thread because that is the inherent advantage of being mafia. This option brings more of the control of lynches outside of the thread, and is therefore inherently to the advantage of the mafia. It requires a higher degree of luck and skill to be used effectively by L than it does by Light, and if L demonstrates that luck and skill early on, then Light can use the old stand by of just night killing the problem out of existence to get back on track. If L does not demonstrate (or have) that luck and skill, then the mafia can quickly control the game to the point where the other team may be a concern (balance), but the civvie chance of recovery is pretty much zero.

Your assessment is astute. I wonder if those you are arguing against understand your logic, agree with it, and are fine with it because they are in fact mafia...
Also, don't give the baddies good ideas.

Could be. But I doubt it. The mafia play here if they wanted the L/Light option would be to let the early supporters support it, and then swoop in and agree with those supports without paying attention to the other side of the discussion. At least, that would be the mafia play if BTSC for them weren't limited. I also think it depends on the person. I'm not surprised any of the people who like the L/Light option like it, and am more surprised by some of the votes already placed elsewhere since those feel more out of character to me.

[DharmaHelper]

Sure, but if he just plays it well and buffs civvies or other baddies who are chasing his non-teammates, then the benefit of their vote being buffed is still his, not theirs. And of course, he can also work to use the extra part of the half he has to use to devalue votes where necessary. An all around easier situation for him to handle and spin to his advantage unless he manages to fumble it spectacularly. Then with L, even pretty good playing wouldn't be enough, they would HAVE to be on their A game the whole time to make it work, and even if they manage that, it just makes them liable to get NKed and a different civvie a chance (assuming the pass down idea is correct) to use less than stellar judgement or get NKed.

Your cynicism has an incredible lack of faith for L but not for Light. Light has plenty of power to use to his advantage to help him. His secrets, as well as his percentage-check. We can debate what ifs and maybes all day but like you said, MP would not leave this kind of stuff up to chance. There are undoubtedly balances in place to give L just as much security and maneuverability as Light.

For example, they both *have* to pick one half of the current player base. The odds that the lists will work out in favor of the mafia (majority of mafia on both lists, majority of civs either on one or no list) is just astronomical.

I don't agree that it's cynicism. Mafia have an easier time controlling things that go on outside of the thread because that is the inherent advantage of being mafia. This option brings more of the control of lynches outside of the thread, and is therefore inherently to the advantage of the mafia. It requires a higher degree of luck and skill to be used effectively by L than it does by Light, and if L demonstrates that luck and skill early on, then Light can use the old stand by of just night killing the problem out of existence to get back on track. If L does not demonstrate (or have) that luck and skill, then the mafia can quickly control the game to the point where the other team may be a concern (balance), but the civvie chance of recovery is pretty much zero.

Assuming Light can A) Find and B) Successfully NK L

How does L making poor judgement calls early translate into those two things being any more/ any less likely? I disagree that mafia are somehow going to be "better" at this because it happens outside of the thread. I also disagree that this is a strictly outside of the thread occurrence. As I've said it may take some legwork but the lynch votes can be used to figure out who was on what list if any, and that information can be used to damage Light.

Yes.

It doesn't. L making poor judgement calls mean Light doesn't need to kill them. L making good judgement calls will be reflected by the result of the lynches, and I believe would make it easier to find L. Killing them would then just be a matter of timing.

I don't agree with the idea that it would be more useful to the civs and help them find Light. They can't know who put who on which list or any of that, so unless Light or their started BTSC partner got lynched, I don't see what information you could expect to get from an L/Light controlled lynch that would put you in a better situation than a lynch decided everyone equally (once manipulation is accounted for, which I think is easier without the list further muddying things up).

What I mean is it is a stepping stone. It is another piece of the puzzle that can be added to other evidence to form cases. Obviously on its own it isn't going to yield 100% results, but i think that again, it has the potential to be a very useful tool in gathering information.

And I'm still not getting how it puts L in Lights crosshairs. Light only knows (as far as I can tell) who he puts on HIS list. So, to figure out the other half of that equation (who L put on his list, and who ended up on neither list or both) Light is at just as much of a disadvantage as L. And this assumes that Light and L are not careful in who they place on their lists. There are measures in place and tactics that can be used to conceal L's motives. Taking that into consideration, finding L is just as difficult for Light as finding Light would be for the civs.

The question of balance comes up a lot. Do you honestly think MP would even give us the option of picking a lynch mechanic that all but guaranteed L would be found and killed immediately? That does not seem balanced to me.

[thellama73]

Guys, I finished episode 25 of Death Note, but I have to leave the rest for tomorrow,Presidents Day. (I wish there were a Grover Cleveland Day. Actually, I wish there were two non-consecutive Grover Cleveland Days.)

[boo]

I don't know DH, I'm starting to think you're just reaching for things even you don't believe because you'd like to be right and win the argument.

Or I'm just tired and no longer following you.

Either way, I've said everything I actually have to say without repeating myself (and then some :P), and now we've reached a point where I feel like we're going in circles and just giving people things to disinterestedly skim read. But I think we've hammered out both options and why they work and don't to the fullest extent that I have anything useful to add, so until other people have new ideas to share I think I'm done.

[Tangrowth]

Guys, I finished episode 25 of Death Note, but I have to leave the rest for tomorrow,Presidents Day. (I wish there were a Grover Cleveland Day. Actually, I wish there were two non-consecutive Grover Cleveland Days.)

Woah, seriously? You started earlier today, yes? So I presume you've been watching it all day. Then again, since you are ill, there's no better remedy.

I also presume you like it?

[DharmaHelper]

I don't know DH, I'm starting to think you're just reaching for things even you don't believe because you'd like to be right and win the argument.

Or I'm just tired and no longer following you.

Either way, I've said everything I actually have to say without repeating myself (and then some :P), and now we've reached a point where I feel like we're going in circles and just giving people things to disinterestedly skim read. But I think we've hammered out both options and why they work and don't to the fullest extent that I have anything useful to add, so until other people have new ideas to share I think I'm done.

Alright man, fair enough. For what its worth I'm just trying to be thorough. I did enjoy getting to hammer out the options with you.

[thellama73]

Guys, I finished episode 25 of Death Note, but I have to leave the rest for tomorrow,Presidents Day. (I wish there were a Grover Cleveland Day. Actually, I wish there were two non-consecutive Grover Cleveland Days.)

Woah, seriously? You started earlier today, yes? So I presume you've been watching it all day. Then again, since you are ill, there's no better remedy.

I also presume you like it?

It's a good cartoon, but not as good as King of the Hill.

[thellama73]

Also, somebody laugh at my Grover Cleveland joke. It is hilarious.

[Tangrowth]

Guys, I finished episode 25 of Death Note, but I have to leave the rest for tomorrow,Presidents Day. (I wish there were a Grover Cleveland Day. Actually, I wish there were two non-consecutive Grover Cleveland Days.)

Woah, seriously? You started earlier today, yes? So I presume you've been watching it all day. Then again, since you are ill, there's no better remedy.

I also presume you like it?

It's a good cartoon, but not as good as King of the Hill.

I should have expected this response.

[Tangrowth]

Also, somebody laugh at my Grover Cleveland joke. It is hilarious.

I thought it was awesome.

[thellama73]

Also, somebody laugh at my Grover Cleveland joke. It is hilarious.

I thought it was awesome.

[Marmot]

Also, somebody laugh at my Grover Cleveland joke. It is hilarious.

I lol'd in real life if that makes you feel better. Here's a smiley to show it.

[thellama73]

I wonder if I can play this entire game only using Grover Cleveland memes.

[Marmot]

I wonder if I can play this entire game only using Grover Cleveland memes.

Or you could start a presidential meme game mafia.

[juliets]

omg, I went out to dinner and when i returned this thread had exploded. I have read through it once but tbh i don't think I fully understand the two sides of the argument. I'm going tell my self its because I'm tired and it's late and get up in the morning and read everything again before i decide which way to vote. There are good points on both sides of the argument for the L/Light choice and the normal choice (I'm not considering any of the other choices).

[Long Con]

Can someone explain exactly what a Shinigami is? I think it's a supernatural entity of some kind.. a guardian? They have Death Notes? And Kira stole one from a Shinigami, or found a lost one, or something?

[thellama73]

Can someone explain exactly what a Shinigami is? I think it's a supernatural entity of some kind.. a guardian? They have Death Notes? And Kira stole one from a Shinigami, or found a lost one, or something?

They are gods of death, and the death notes originally come from their realm.

[DharmaHelper]

Can someone explain exactly what a Shinigami is? I think it's a supernatural entity of some kind.. a guardian? They have Death Notes? And Kira stole one from a Shinigami, or found a lost one, or something?

They are God of Death, I believe. Their "Death Notes" are books. They write a persons name and manner of death, and poof. Light (Kira) found one such notebook after it had fallen into earth.

[thellama73]

Or you could start a presidential meme game mafia.

I want to do Presidential Mafia, but 44 roles is too many and it would break my heart to leave anybody out.

[thellama73]

Can someone explain exactly what a Shinigami is? I think it's a supernatural entity of some kind.. a guardian? They have Death Notes? And Kira stole one from a Shinigami, or found a lost one, or something?

They are God of Death, I believe. Their "Death Notes" are books. They write a persons name and manner of death, and poof. Light (Kira) found one such notebook after it had fallen into earth.

I just said that, DH!

[boo]

Can someone explain exactly what a Shinigami is? I think it's a supernatural entity of some kind.. a guardian? They have Death Notes? And Kira stole one from a Shinigami, or found a lost one, or something?

They are God of Death, I believe. Their "Death Notes" are books. They write a persons name and manner of death, and poof. Light (Kira) found one such notebook after it had fallen into earth.

I just said that, DH!

Yes, but it doesn't make any sense, because there is only one god, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to death: "bitch, you need a notebook to kill me."

[Matahari]

Happy birthday LC!

[DharmaHelper]

Can someone explain exactly what a Shinigami is? I think it's a supernatural entity of some kind.. a guardian? They have Death Notes? And Kira stole one from a Shinigami, or found a lost one, or something?

They are God of Death, I believe. Their "Death Notes" are books. They write a persons name and manner of death, and poof. Light (Kira) found one such notebook after it had fallen into earth.

I just said that, DH!

Linki caught me. My b.

[Marmot]

Guys, I finished episode 25 of Death Note, but I have to leave the rest for tomorrow,Presidents Day. (I wish there were a Grover Cleveland Day. Actually, I wish there were two non-consecutive Grover Cleveland Days.)

I'm now only 24 episodes behind you. Well, I'll catch up eventually.

[triceratopzeuhl]

Hey ladies


sorry I missed the start, just got back from celebrating my gparents wedding anniversary.

[triceratopzeuhl]

also #1 gets my vote, that and 3 are the only ones I could in good conscience even consider supporting

[triceratopzeuhl]

(trip post yolo) L and Light option is problematic at best, I don't really see why we would want the possibility of baddies giving their teammates more heavily weighted votes. Seems to me from the roles that they are a lot more likely to know who they are allied with than L will ever be.

[Ricochet]

Speaking of the Shinigamis, I want to ask the Host something about the following description available for all three Shinigami roles:

As a shinigami, he cannot be harmed by humans, nor can he be seen by humans who have not made contact with his Death Note

Is this an actual power or just for flavor? I could understand the harm part (i.e. unaffected by lynches, powers), but less so the detecting part. Anyway, this is for me an example of a tight blend between character trait and potential power, which is why I'm asking for clarification.

[S~V~S]

In a perfect world, the L/Light thing would work as you guys are saying. My concern (and it was the impetus behind my vote) is what if L is someone like me (disclaimer: it is NOT me)? In GoC2, I trusted one of the baddies the whole game. Let me qualify, I distrusted him Day 1, he made one remark, I turned around, and not only did i trust him the whole game, I fought for him. In another recent game, I have only voted for civvies. And I am not the only one.

If we have a couple of really slick, manipulative players as baddies and L is taken in by them... I think that is putting too much control in one civvies hands unless L is super astute. Which he may be. Or he may be someone like me, easily susceptible to flattery & letting someones demeanor influence opinion as to affiliation.

I do think L/Light might be a really powerful tool, but I also think it could also be a major fiasco, especially if Light is a stronger player than L. I already voted, and having read the points made after I went afk, I am happy with my vote.

Also, I intend to never trust DH again :P

Linki, you are speaking in sarcasm, that color is the very similar to the sarcasm font. Just an FYI

[Ricochet]

I did not use the sarc button, so no, I was not speaking in sarcasm. That being said, I have no idea why I actually used that colour. I thought I remembered someone, in some game, using it to speak to the host, but I can't remember where (Film? Donner?) and it made me do the same right now.

[Ricochet]

I'll ponder a bit more on whether to opt for a normal-type or a L/Light-type vote. I'd say in more inclined for the latter, even just for the perspective of an exciting, uncharacteristic and theme-centric angle in voting/gaming - alas nobody was pleased with my thematic speculations so far, so I won't insist on it. I can't fully admit, however, to be able to see the implications (or repercusions) of a L/Light-type vote to the extent that, for instance, boo and DH have argued thus far. Regarding my initial speculations, if the L/Light-type would become permanent or long-term, I'm starting to believe L would be able to check or form ideas of alignments and work with that slightly faster than Light would form a teammate camp (if he would be able to get it touch with his sympathizers at all, that is).

[Roxy]

Voted normal lynch bc I would like to have at least one thingin this game that I can understand. I wish I had not read the roles just yet bc it only helped to enhance my confusion as I read the thread.

[Elohcin]

Simon saw me reading this thread and is disappointed that Epi and I didn't tell him about this game. He said,"Why did you guys start without me?! I would have wanted to be L."

I'm waiting to cast my vote. I'm not sure an L and Light influenced lynch is a good idea.

[DharmaHelper]

In a perfect world, the L/Light thing would work as you guys are saying. My concern (and it was the impetus behind my vote) is what if L is someone like me (disclaimer: it is NOT me)? In GoC2, I trusted one of the baddies the whole game. Let me qualify, I distrusted him Day 1, he made one remark, I turned around, and not only did i trust him the whole game, I fought for him. In another recent game, I have only voted for civvies. And I am not the only one.

If we have a couple of really slick, manipulative players as baddies and L is taken in by them... I think that is putting too much control in one civvies hands unless L is super astute. Which he may be. Or he may be someone like me, easily susceptible to flattery & letting someones demeanor influence opinion as to affiliation.

I do think L/Light might be a really powerful tool, but I also think it could also be a major fiasco, especially if Light is a stronger player than L. I already voted, and having read the points made after I went afk, I am happy with my vote.

Also, I intend to never trust DH again :P

Linki, you are speaking in sarcasm, that color is the very similar to the sarcasm font. Just an FYI

That would be a fine criticism if L and Light could pick and choose the size of their lists. They can't. They *have* to pick half of the playerbase. Therefore, Light can't just *give* the mafia the advantage.

[DharmaHelper]

EBWOP: And L won't need to have a bulletproof list.

[Tangrowth]

Speaking of the Shinigamis, I want to ask the Host something about the following description available for all three Shinigami roles:

As a shinigami, he cannot be harmed by humans, nor can he be seen by humans who have not made contact with his Death Note

Is this an actual power or just for flavor? I could understand the harm part (i.e. unaffected by lynches, powers), but less so the detecting part. Anyway, this is for me an example of a tight blend between character trait and potential power, which is why I'm asking for clarification.

Very good question.

[Tangrowth]

Simon saw me reading this thread and is disappointed that Epi and I didn't tell him about this game. He said,"Why did you guys start without me?! I would have wanted to be L."

I'm waiting to cast my vote. I'm not sure an L and Light influenced lynch is a good idea.

Dang! Well, maybe someday I'll do a sequel and make it family-friendly!

Also, Simon's desire to be L is commendable.

[Epignosis]

For me, it boils down to this: The people supporting the L / Light choice are okay with their votes potentially not counting, are okay with the potentiality of Light safely distancing from Ryuk, are okay with Mafia increasing their voting strength, are okay with the lynches being a less instructive tool for finding Mafia, and are okay with targets being painted on the backs of civilians whose votes are worth more.

Don't make deals with the devil. Make people accountable for every vote cast. Don't give them the possible out, "Well, maybe my vote didn't count" or "Well, maybe my vote was worth more."

It bewilders me that, on a site where civilians lose 87% of the time in full games, supposed civilians would want give Mafia substantial control over the lynches.