Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Chris]

I really felt it was important to look into the Cybers, since they have a kill, and if the recruiter can get the kill like they did with Roxy.

If we take out the Cyber team, then the recruiter can't get their kill. (I hope)

Next, we need to figure out who The Master is. That's going to be a lot harder. With The Master seemingly only having one connection, who may or may not have made contact with him, it's not going to be as easy to find him based on thread or vote evidence.

It's going to be a bit of a "needle in a haystack" situation.

I guess I'll start reading MetalMarsh...

[Snow Dog]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

[Turnip Head]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

[Black Rock]

I think that panoplied Master Black Rock Lucy Saxon thing could very well be indecorous a "recruit".

I reword target believe overhaul the Cyberman Body scherif a secret gymnosophist.

Excuse me?

[Dom]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

[Turnip Head]

Because Bass asked at one point why his voting record was sketchier than BR's... The difference between Bass and Black Rock:

Day 2 votes:
Enrique
3
Epignosis (3), Black Rock (14), Bass_the_Clever (16)
14%


Day 3 votes:
Enrique
1
Black Rock (25)
3%

Made
5
Dom (4), sabie12 (5), nijuukyugou (13), Bass_the_Clever (17), Snow Dog (20)
17%


Day 4 votes:
Enrique
10
Epignosis (2), Black Rock (6), Bass_the_Clever (7), Snow Dog (8), sabie12 (12), Chris (15), Hedgeowl (22), keys56000000000 (23), Long Con (24), Spacedaisy (26) 36%


Analysis: BR consistently votes for her suspect Enrique until he's dead. Bass flip flops between Made and Enrique, he goes with whoever has a better chance of being lynched on a given day, and usually votes with Sabie.

[Chris]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

What about Snow's voting for Rico on days 1 & 2, then voting Made day 3, then going back to Rico day 4?


And Dom, I understand that Rory would survive a night kill aimed at Amy.

ny negative night actions directed at Amy will be absorbed by Rory, up to and including nightkills. However, given Rory’s bravery and fortitude, he shrugs off the first nightkill attempt directed at either himself or Amy.

[Turnip Head]

Relevant quote from Day 3:

Sorry I don't post a lot but I have been trying to get back in the swing of things. But I have one question for you what do you think of Made?
I had to look back at past games both you and Made played to learn how you guys play and I notice he changed his play style this game which make me think I will prob be voting him over you this lynch.

Did Bass actually look back at past games to learn Made and Enri's playstyles in order to accuse them, or is Bass on the team that rolechecked them?

Bass cites Made changing his style from previous games as a reason to vote for Made over Rico. That's something Sabie did too, but Sabie actually has had game experience with Made, Sabie did not need to "look back at past games" to back up her suspicions.

[S~V~S]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

[Chris]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

[Chris]

Also, SVS, any idea on who The Master or the recruiter could be?

Guesses even?

[Black Rock]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

[Turnip Head]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

What about Snow's voting for Rico on days 1 & 2, then voting Made day 3, then going back to Rico day 4?

I'll look into it after I watch some football.

[Chris]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

I trust you in this game BR.

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

But if you're pretty certain, I'll put that one away.


How do you feel about Dana then? MP has vouched really heavily for her. And she's been MIA for days and days. Do you have reason to trust MP's assessment of her. And shit, while we're at it, MP is also saying Daisy was 100% civ. Do you agree with that?

[Turnip Head]

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

Wait what

[Chris]

Here's the thing. I know I'm not The Master. And if all the other players who survived NKs are not The Master... well, we've got troubles then. That would mean that The Master has all three life protections.

It's going to be tough to kill him. And with Strax having one more no civvie kill, another survival of his kill can be called a civ save again.

This is going to be tough to find and kill The Master. That's why I was sort of hoping that Elo could have been The Master. Then at least one life protect is gone.


LINKI @ TH: I said it's a touch thin. It's mostly voting records and a theorized scenario. I can lay it out, but I don't want to confuse things. Like I said, I trust BR, and if BR is saying that she feels pretty sure that Elo is civ, then I'll drop it.

[Black Rock]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

I trust you in this game BR.

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

But if you're pretty certain, I'll put that one away.


How do you feel about Dana then? MP has vouched really heavily for her. And she's been MIA for days and days. Do you have reason to trust MP's assessment of her. And shit, while we're at it, MP is also saying Daisy was 100% civ. Do you agree with that?

If she's the Master I have been completely snowed. I don't think she is.

What do you think about Dom?

[Epignosis]

... could indicate a somewhat disinterested teammate...

I am never a disinterested teammate.

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

Wait what

If by now you are not convinced that Chris is bad news, I don't know what to tell you.

Off to D&D and FF. Go Panthers! lol

[Turnip Head]

I want to hear your scenario Chris.

[Chris]

What do you think about Dom?

I'm not sure. he's a player that I always suspect is bad, just like SVS. It's just with SVS, I've learned to stay away from her unless I feel really sure. I felt really sure about her in the last game I played with her, and DH and I got her lynched, and she was a baddie. I'm pretty sure I've learned how to read her. I thought that she was able to read me as well, which is why I asked for back from her. And when she didn't give it, I was worried about her. But then she started seeing what I was saying, and I think she sees that I'm playing my civ game.

Dom, however, it different. I see him doing his baddie hunting stuff, but then every once in a while, he'll say or do something that just sticks out. Unfortunately for me, the times he stuck out were when he seemed to put support behind a lynch for me when I thought that is was pretty obvious that I wasn't bad. So naturally I then start to think that he's purposefully ignoring facts, and gunning for me. And of course that then makes me feel he's bad.

I thought he could be a Cyber, and he still can be, but if he is, he's the body that's been found. And I'm not even sure that's how it works, so I'm hesitant to plug him in there.

I thought he could be the recruiter, but I didn't find ANYTHING between him and Roxy, except for the fact that he kept his vote on me on day 7, and didn't vote for her. But, that's kinda thin too... Then I thought about him being The Master. I suppose he could be. He's certainly seems to be doing his own thing. I can't tie his voting record to anything or anyone, but then again, I didn't analyze it yet either.

In summation, he could be a civ. (but everyone in this game is trying to come across as a civ) He could be the recruiter, but I don't think so. He could be Cyber, but I really don't think so. He could be The Master, and I wouldn't be shocked... but like I said... I thought I found some voting evidence in Elo...

I guess I'm off to examine Dom's voting record....


LINKI @ TH: Ok... let me build it. But first I'd like to take a look at Dom's votes

[Dom]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

What about Snow's voting for Rico on days 1 & 2, then voting Made day 3, then going back to Rico day 4?


And Dom, I understand that Rory would survive a night kill aimed at Amy.

ny negative night actions directed at Amy will be absorbed by Rory, up to and including nightkills. However, given Rory’s bravery and fortitude, he shrugs off the first nightkill attempt directed at either himself or Amy.

Hm. I get it now. I forgot Rory is also not easy to kill.

[Snow Dog]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

[Black Rock]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

Really? Game play is game play and you shouldn't ask the hosts to play the game for you.

[Snow Dog]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

Really? Game play is game play and you shouldn't ask the hosts to play the game for you.

I find myself unsure of the rules of mafia. i simply want it clarified whether this is role dropping or not. But if you like i withdraw the question and invite players opinions on the matter.

[Chris]

For starters, Dom's record is impeccable. (With the exception of day 7 of course )

Dom votes

Day 1 - Rico (baddie)
Day 2 - Made (baddie)
Day 3 - Made (baddie)
Day 4 - Made (baddie)
Day 5 - Rico (baddie)
Day 6 - Epig (baddie) But seriously... he's bad.
Day 7 - Chris (civvie)
Day 8 - Sabie (baddie)

While this is an excellent record, it's a touch suspicious just because it's SO good... The vote for me can be argued that it was contrived. And the for Sabie could have been distancing. He was the 4th vote for Epig, while MM had 2. But by that time MM was recruited. So if The Master had established BTSC with Lucy (MM), then it would have been broken once recruited. (i assume anyway) So if Dom was The Master, and they had a broken BTSC, I would think that The Master would be voting for MM. Dom didn't.

That doesn't exonerate him from being The Master, but it makes it less likely.

I think MM was recruited on day 5. I think that by day 5, he may have found The Master. Not great chances, but he may have.

Which leads me to Hedgie and Elo. If The Master did have a broken BTSC with Lucy (MM), I think there would be a vote to lynch him as well. Elo and Hedgie were the last two to vote for MM. Hedgie hasn't survived a NK, but Elo did. That made me look into Elo's voting.

Elo Votes

Day 1 - Juliets (civ)
Day 2 - Dana (?)
Day 3 - Dana (?)
Day 4 - Made (baddie)
Day 5 - Dana (?)
Day 6 - MetalMarsh (recruited Indy)
Day 7 - Roxy
Day 8 - Dana (?)

There's a LOT of Dana attention. A LOT! Elo even voted for Dana on day 8, when Dana hasn't been playing in days. But the only breaks in her Danaquest was for Made, who was the obvious vote for most, and for MM. Do I remember the case on MM right? MP built it based on MM's voting during the Rico lynch? Oh yeah, cuz he changed his vote from Made or Rico to Snow. I remember thinking it was a bit thin. Then I think Epig expounded on it, but we all know he was saving his own ass...

Anyway, this quote caught my eye:

I've been pushing the lynching of Dana (as my activity would allow) since Day 3.

Elo was really the only other one pushing for Dana so hard. I mean, it was damn near relentless. Then, MM starts to suspect her? His voting record says otherwise.

MetalMarsh votes

Day 1 - Missed
Day 2 - Elo (?)
Day 3 - Snow (civ)
Day 4 - Self
Day 5 - Snow (baddie)
Day 6 - Epig

I don't know. As I work on this, I'm starting to have questions. I think I'll post it anyway, just to bounce it off of TH.

My point was, it seemed to me that MM was recruited while he had BTSC with either Hedgie or Elo. Elo surviving that NK lends support to her being The Master. But it's starting to get cloudy. (I am watching football right now too)

It's those votes for him that I keep coming back to. But if Elo was The Master with broken BTSC with MM, I'm not seeing it in the thread evidence. The vote suggests it, but at one point, she said if everyone would vote for Dana, she would too. But between MM and Epig, she felt there was a better chance of Epig being good.

Hedgies vote seemed a little contrived as well... but I don't see anything tying Hedgie to MM. With me thinking that Daisy was bad, it makes Hedgies record look good in my eyes. If Daisy was good, it makes Hedgies voted for her look bad. I saw other strong evidence that makes me think Daisy was bad, so that makes me feel better about Hedgie's voting record.

I've confused the shit outta myself with this one. I've got some time to think on it some more. If I was pressed to guess who i thought was The Master right now, I'd guess Elo.

[Long Con]

I Yin Kahlan wrong with roleclaiming. It's part of hysterical. It's one of the best reasons to give the baddies Achilles dead role checker!

[Black Rock]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

Really? Game play is game play and you shouldn't ask the hosts to play the game for you.

I find myself unsure of the rules of mafia. i simply want it clarified whether this is role dropping or not. But if you like i withdraw the question and invite players opinions on the matter.

I guess everyone has their own opinion on this. Role claiming can be true or false and it's up to the individual player to believe it or not. One team had a dead role checker which would help them false role claim knowing what civvies were dead or not.

[Snow Dog]

Fair enough BR.

[Turnip Head]

Chris, have you had time to check Dom's voting record and put together your theorized scenario about Eloh?

[Turnip Head]

Wow somehow I didn't catch it

[Turnip Head]

Well I think the idea of Elo being The Master is definitely wrong so won't spend too much time on it. You said your case was vote records based, and I was going to point out that Elo voted for MM over Epi on the day where they were tied. Elo had previously expressed suspicion of Epi2.0 as well so I think that move would not make any sense at all for Elo to make if she had BTSC with MM. I thought it was preposterous that you even suggest it and it made me think you had some nefarious reason to bring it up to BR without fully researching it first.

[Chris]

Basically, what started me down this road was this:

If The Master never had BTSC with MM, there's no way to gain any connections to The Master through MM's posts.

If The Master did have BTSC, we should be able to see something either when it was achieved, and also when it was broken. I saw nothing like that.

I'm tempted to say that The Master never established BTSC with Lucy.


LINKI @ TH: Like I said, I was taking shots knowing it would be tough to find The Master. And, as you can see, I basically talked myself out of it in the process. But did I miss something that makes Elo a guaranteed civ?

[Turnip Head]

No, it's just my personal read of her.

[Chris]

All these vouchings...

TH is vouching for Elo.
BR is vouchig for Elo, LC & MP
MP is vouching for Dana, Daisy, BR & LC
LC is vouching for BR & MP
keys is vouching for me, though I don't exactly know how he knew I was civvie.
I think I'm seeing an SVS game, but she went after Daisy kinda hard.

Did I miss any? I mean, SOMEONE has to be the recruiter and The Master.

Did anyone vouch for TH, Hedgie, or Dom? What about Faraday, goatees or Ninja?

[Chris]

I guess what I'm saying is, if MP & BR trust each other, and MP trusts Dana, and BR trusts Elo, why is Elo continuously voting for Dana?

That's where I'm confused...

[Turnip Head]

Who do you think could be the recruiter Chris?

[Chris]

Hang on... I fucked up my vote tallies. I need to redo this shit.

[Long Con]

When did I vouch for decompound? I don't recall vouching for BR.

MP, yes, I believed he was the role he is. words

[Chris]

Ok, I corrected the vote tally. I knew something looked off...

These are the votes I was concerned with.

Elo Votes

Day 1 - Juliets (civ)
Day 2 - Dana (?)
Day 3 - Dana (?)
Day 4 - Made (baddie)
Day 5 - Rico (baddie)
Day 6 - MetalMarsh (recruited Indy)
Day 7 - Roxy
Day 8 - Dana (?)

Hedgie votes

Day 1 - Missed
Day 2 - Daisy (?)
Day 3 - Daisy (?)
Day 4 - Rico (baddie)
Day 5 - Rico (baddie)
Day 6 - MetalMarsh (recruited Indy)
Day 7 - DFaraday (?)
Day 8 - Sabie (baddie)

Dana votes

Day 1 - Elo (?)
Day 2 - Epig (civ)
Day 3 - Snow (civ)
Day 4 - Made (baddie)
Day 5 - Missed
Day 6 - Missed
Day 7 - Missed
Day 8 - Missed

MetalMarsh votes

Day 1 - Missed
Day 2 - Elo (?)
Day 3 - Snow (civ)
Day 4 - Self
Day 5 - Rico (baddie)
Day 6 - Epig


LINKI @ LC: My bad. I thought you did. I guess it was BR vouching for you then.

[Chris]

HOSTS:

Were there any missing PMs on night 4?

Were there any missing PMs on night 5?

Were there any missing PMs on night 6?

Were there any missing PMs on night 7?

[Turnip Head]

Wait, those are the players who concern you re: the mystery recruiter? Or something else?

[Tangrowth]

Don't have long, only a few minutes, but just wanted to say: Chris, I think you're confused. I do not vouch for BR and LC. I have no reason to think they're bad at the moment, but I really have no idea when it comes to them. Instead, I have vouched for zeek, S~V~S, and keys, I very highly doubt any of them is (was) not a civvie.

As you stated, I've vouched heavily for Daisy and Dana, whose relationship I thought was evident; on the incredibly small off chance it wasn't, I took a risk, and it was proven this off chance was completely incorrect once Daisy was killed by The Master. Therefore, Dana is a civvie, and a very specific one at that.

[Tangrowth]

In fact, I will eat a hat if Dana or S~V~S are bad. Same with zeek and keys, but to a slightly lesser extent.

Based on thread reads and a process of elimination, I don't really think Gotrees or DFaraday are bad right now either, but with regards to those I could be wrong.

I do think we're on the right track to catch a Cyberman with Sabie's reveal, and the only leads as to The Master which I believe are likely are either Chris or BR, so we need more evidence there, as it could be someone else even. And assuming there is a single recruiter, which I think is likely, I just don't know who it could be, but I think we can get a better idea by pooling all of our information together and eliminating people from the possible pool. However, we might need first need more insight into what kind of recruiter dynamic this person even has; I would assume over the course of 8 nights there will have been more than only Roxy as a recruit, so if only we could find another recruit, that would be nice. Given Sabie was the role checker and some things that have gone down, it is possible we will find a Cyberman who could flip recruited, I think. If so, or even if not, that should give more direction. Thoughts?

[Tangrowth]

Also, TH 2.0, can you elaborate as to why you have ranked the Cybermen on your list from most to least likely? I'm curious what you're thinking here.

Be back later, folks.

[Turnip Head]

I'll keep your thoughts in mind MP but as far as I'm concerned anyone could have been recruited at any point in timey wimey.

linki: I suspect we'll be talking more about this tomorrow, but there's a lot of good stuff floating out there connecting Epignosis to Sabie. I've also made a case on Bass. Ninja's throwaway vote is a bit concerning to me, and Snowy I suspect the least but I can see where some of the concern is coming from re: him.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, good point TH. Although I doubt if the recruiter has had multiple attempts they would choose Dana for example, certainly anything is possible until we get more information. Hopefully we do, but I am thinking we need to lynch the recruiter in that case based on BWT's response to Chris. And thanks for elaborating! I stand by my assessment that I just can't see Epi behaving like that if he were Saboe's teammate but I guess you never know. I do share concerns for many of those people as well.

Anyway, seriously now be back later.

[Chris]

In fact, I will eat a hat if Dana or S~V~S are bad. Same with zeek and keys, but to a slightly lesser extent.

Based on thread reads and a process of elimination, I don't really think Gotrees or DFaraday are bad right now either, but with regards to those I could be wrong.

I do think we're on the right track to catch a Cyberman with Sabie's reveal, and the only leads as to The Master which I believe are likely are either Chris or BR, so we need more evidence there, as it could be someone else even. And assuming there is a single recruiter, which I think is likely, I just don't know who it could be, but I think we can get a better idea by pooling all of our information together and eliminating people from the possible pool. However, we might need first need more insight into what kind of recruiter dynamic this person even has; I would assume over the course of 8 nights there will have been more than only Roxy as a recruit, so if only we could find another recruit, that would be nice. Given Sabie was the role checker and some things that have gone down, it is possible we will find a Cyberman who could flip recruited, I think. If so, or even if not, that should give more direction. Thoughts?

MP, MetalMarsh and Roxy were both recruited.

I personally think there were recruitments on odd nights.

I'm currently working on who I think The Master is, but I've hit another brick wall.



Also MP, are you saying that you don't think Daisy is a civ? Someone was just professing their faith in Daisy's civviness.

I don't think so. I think she was bad.

[Chris]

You know what? I'm taking a break. i'm burned out. I've done too much case making and reading in the last 36 hours.

Besides, the Raiders are on. I'm going to watch some football, and then come back. Maybe I'll have a clearer head by then.

But right now, with me getting all those vouches wrong, and screwing up the vote tallies, I'm toast.

be back later.

[Chris]

Wait, those are the players who concern you re: the mystery recruiter? Or something else?

Those votes were the players I wanted to look at for any Master ties.

But then I removed Dana because she hasn't post or voted since day 4. And I removed MM because I don't think that Luct had BTSC with The Master.

So I focused on Elo and Hedgie's votes. I thought I had something, But I didn't.

[Gotrees]

Guys, I'm really sorry I have been so inactive lately, these past two weeks have really overwhelmed me with school work. Last week alone I've had tests or projects in almost all my classes, plus the PSAT on Wednesday (which is what I had that day instead of classes). I will try to become more active again now that most of that is hopefully out of the way. I haven't had the time to completely catch up yet, and I probably never will, but I've read through the host posts and the posts mentioning my name, and I think I have a basic understanding of the situation right now. To address Juliets' concerns:

First, we can't deny that Gotrees has been super helpful on the night polls that involved planets from Dr. Who. Gathering all that material and publishing commentary at the end of each group must have taken a long time. He also has posted some videos that are interesting but not directly related to what is happening in the game. So I have to ask, why hasn't his posting been as complete? He talks about catching up which excuses him from posting thoughts or doing any baddie hunting. If he can post all that material about the planets why can't he keep up?

I don't think I really talked about catching up until this last Tuesday. Until then, I never used that as an excuse for anything (except in the very beginning of the game when I had a late start). Right now there's just been so much going on I haven't really had much time for Mafia between school and life. I'm sorry.

As for my lack of baddie hunting: I don't really know how to baddie hunt. I'm new to the game, and although that is probably a garbage excuse, I don't really know all the ins and outs of it yet. My first vote led to Epi 1 getting lynched because I thought he was acting suspicious. In reality that's just how he plays the game. I don't want that to happen again. Until I play with you all a bit more, it will continue to be difficult to determine who and when people are lying. Right now, I just have to rely on other people's insight.

Second, he indicates in this post he see's no connection between Enrique and Made, and says his own vote record is no better than Enriques, and finally he feels reluctant voting for made.

Man, I'm not certain on either of them.

Epig does a better job arguing his case than Dom does, but Enri does a better job arguing his case than Made does.

Are people assuming Made is the Emperor Dalek and cant get lynched? Someone mentioned it earlier: if that were the case, there would be no need to save him last night. Also, I don't see any connection between Enrique and Made. Frankly, other people have come across as closer to each other.

The most suspicious thing on Enrique to me is his trend of unlucky votes, but it would be pretty hypocritical for me to criticize him for that, considering my record isn't too great either. His survival of last night is also a bit odd, but it seems pretty certain that it would be possible for him to potentially survive that night as a civ (eg. if the Master was blocked).

I feel reluctant voting for Made, though, too. I don't entirely understand the argument against him.

The thing I'm ultimately falling back on to base this vote on is my experiences with them outside of the game, since I mostly know them in that context. I mentioned on one of the first days that Made seemed a bit off to me. Enrique seems more like his usual self. It's entirely possible that he's just a better liar, but that's what I'm going on for now. I really hope I'm right.

I stand behind that, I don't know how that incriminates me. Everything I said there is what I believed at that point. I'm friends with Made and Enrique outside of Mafia, and I felt that was the best thing I could base my vote off of. I had stated earlier that I thought Made was acting a bit different from his real-life self, and many other players had also said that his game was different this time around. I didn't entirely understand the argument around him, but at that point I believe it was between Made and Enrique, and Made seemed to be the (slightly) more obvious choice for me.

Third, Gotrees had this to say about Enrique (and MP) before the Enrique lynch. Note it begins with a soft complaint about how hard the game is to keep up with:

Man, even without a lot of discussion this game is too much for me.

To be perfectly honest, MP and Enrique both seem equally bad to me. And by that, I mean they both seem civ. But so does everyone else. They just seem less civ than most people. I really need to improve my baddie-detector.

The case against Enrique is pretty much set in stone, I think. I agree that Made's actions seem suspicious, but can Enrique be entirely blamed for that? It is possible that Made just wanted to go out with a bang or something, or as someone mentioned a few posts up, wanted to save himself from being exposed as a baddie in an almost-tie. I don't know.

(I cut off the rest of this quote which was about MP)

First he says that he sees MP and Enrique as civ, just less civ than others. I guess that means he see's them as bad? He also says MP and Enrique seems equally bad which I disagree with. In my opinion MP never seemed as bad as Enrique seemed. He then defends Enrique against the accusation that Enrique is on Made's team as evidenced by Made voting for himself. Again, in my opinion it seemed pretty obvious why Made voted for himself - to try and help save Enrique.

The comment about how the game is "too much for me" was not about keeping up with the quantity of the posts, but rather about the contents of the posts. As I've said before, I'm having a hard time making sense of people's posts and deciding who's bad and who's good. To provide insight into my simple mind, I've quickly sketched up a graph in Paint:



The yellow representing the confidence I had in Made, Enri, and MP around the time I made those posts. I wasn't yet convinced they were evil, but they were the best leads I could possibly have at that point. The green spot on the graph represents my confidence in my Epi 1.0 vote. Ideally I would like to achieve that amount of confidence before voting someone again, but at that point I was a naive, newborn babbie mafia player (even more babbie than I am now) and especially since he flipped civvie, it will probably take a while for me to get over my reluctance/PTSD following that situation.

I know these issues don't feel meaty but like I said before, they've been stirring in the back of my mind. I'd like to hear from Gotrees and would especially like to know why he has a lot of time when he is putting something neutral in the thread (the info about the planets) but has not gotten more involved in some of our discussion except in that post where he talked about MP. I'd like responses to the other quotes but again, especially my first point.

The reason for the contrast between my informative night posts vs. my lack of "baddie hunting" posts, as I've hinted at above, is that I don't really know how to baddie hunt. What I do know is facts. It's much easier (and, admittedly, much safer--I understand your concerns) to pull cold hard facts from a wiki page than it is to throw out random accusations at your peers. I feel like, even if I did do that, my accusations wouldn't hold much merit. I don't really know what I'm doing, to be honest. I'm worried that if I were to start some bandwagon lynch campaign I would probably be wrong, and then that would probably come back to bite me in the ass sometime later. Ironically I guess it is my reluctance to pursue such a campaign that is getting me into trouble now.

"Under the radar?" Possibly.

Baddie? Definitely not.

Linki: Looks like you guys are pretty active right now. I'll try to answer any questions you might have before starting up on my work.