Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Dom]

Dalek Sec wrote:If someone targets a member of your team with a night action, you can project(?) a -a----- ---------t on them. A ---- -- t--- t-----. If --a--, the night action ---- --t---- a-- --- ---- a ---- again(?). If taken, --t---- -a-----. -- t-- ---- -a--- --a-- -- t-- ------ ----, that --a--- ---- --t -- a--- to -----t----- target your team -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- in the game. If taken, the night action still ---- --t----, --t t---- any of -t--- -----t-.

linki-

Dom: Don't be an asshat, thats one or two of the rules. Think me shady if you want but I do not get off disagreeing with you. I am bored by it, I stated that. I am pursuing things I feel you are misrepresenting. I have also said I want your opinion on the votes for Epig, which you have not given. You are perpetuating this butting of heads now. I want to drop it for now as I can't get a clear view of you being embrawled in an argument with you, I want distance from it to consider everyone on an equal ground.

My thoughts on Epig's voters are as clear as the reasoning against him.

I am still surprised that Blooper can discuss the "fast & furious" Epi lynch without mentioning Daisy. Looking forward to hearing her answer.

This is a very good point, SVS.

Essentially, it was that some of her actions appeared to be contrived and her positions seemed questionable. Namely, she appeared to be suspicion mongering when unnecessary (saying that the fact that S~V~S and I aren't at each other's throats as "concerning").

For the record, I currently don't feel quite as strongly about it as I did yesterday (not that I was crusading her as bad then anyway, but it was my best suspicion), but I'm still mulling things over.

MP, is there anything in the game that you HAVE felt strongly about??

[Enrique]

Yeah, keys, you're getting a little ahead of yourself here. People will voice their interpretations of other players regardless of whether they're teammates or not. We're not trying to get anybody lynched here, we're actually trying to find the bad guys, and a defense of someone you think is innocent (or you have no reason to believe is bad) is not out of place. Personally I'm leaning civvie for both MP and Dana, and I very much doubt they're on a team together at least.

[Tangrowth]

MP, is there anything in the game that you HAVE felt strongly about??

Sure, I felt strongly that Alzarius was the best option N1.

It's Night 2, so... I wouldn't say anything else, especially since we have not yet lynched baddies, would warrant a particularly "strong" opinion of someone being bad just yet. Though maybe I'm giving too much weight to that word.

[birdwithteeth11]

Also, there was another error I found in the secrets. I have since corrected that error too. Thank you to the individual who pointed it out to me.[/color]

Are you able to say what or where the error was so we don't have to search through all of them again? Like I said, I wrote them all down and I'd prefer to not have to scan through 4ish pages of blanks.

I fixed the one that you pointed out to me. There was another one I fixed, but I won't tell you where that one is. Other than it does not currently affect any of the progress you all have made with decoding so far.

If I find it, am I allowed to say?

It's up to you. But I'd be surprised if you did.

[Tangrowth]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, I have a few ideas on where to look next, but I'm going to wait until D3 starts and until sometime tomorrow since I need to catch some sleep and do some homework in the morning before class.

[Dana]

Also, there was another error I found in the secrets. I have since corrected that error too. Thank you to the individual who pointed it out to me.[/color]

Are you able to say what or where the error was so we don't have to search through all of them again? Like I said, I wrote them all down and I'd prefer to not have to scan through 4ish pages of blanks.

I fixed the one that you pointed out to me. There was another one I fixed, but I won't tell you where that one is. Other than it does not currently affect any of the progress you all have made with decoding so far.

If I find it, am I allowed to say?

It's up to you. But I'd be surprised if you did.

As far as I can tell, you added some spaces into Emperor Dalek's secrets, so some longer words became two shorter words. If there's more, I'll keep searching.

[birdwithteeth11]

Also, there was another error I found in the secrets. I have since corrected that error too. Thank you to the individual who pointed it out to me.[/color]

Are you able to say what or where the error was so we don't have to search through all of them again? Like I said, I wrote them all down and I'd prefer to not have to scan through 4ish pages of blanks.

I fixed the one that you pointed out to me. There was another one I fixed, but I won't tell you where that one is. Other than it does not currently affect any of the progress you all have made with decoding so far.

If I find it, am I allowed to say?

It's up to you. But I'd be surprised if you did.

As far as I can tell, you added some spaces into Emperor Dalek's secrets, so some longer words became two shorter words. If there's more, I'll keep searching.

That's not it actually. But feel free to try again.

Also, I won't answer yes or no anymore. :P

[birdwithteeth11]

Clom
1
DFaraday (14) 4%

Darp
2
Dom (11), keys56000000000 (23) 7%

Grolon
1
Elohcin (15) 4%

Karn
15
Long Con (3), Made (5), sabie12 (6), Bullzeye (7), Metalmarsh89 (8), Snow Dog (9), MovingPictures07 (12), zeek (13), juliets (16), Chris (19), S~V~S (20), Bass_the_Clever (21), nijuukyugou (22), Roxy (24), Turnip Head (26) 56%

Perbea
5
Gotrees (4), fingersplints (10), Dana (17), Enrique (18), Hedgeowl (27) 19%

The Library (Hosts/Dead/Non)
3
bea (1), Epignosis (2), birdwithteeth11 (25) 11%

[birdwithteeth11]

Night 2: A Change of Fate?



In a rush of flurry and fury, poor K-9 had been put to the gallows. Everyone took this lose quite hard, but little did they know that events that coming night would offer them a reprieve. For now at least.

As they all drifted off into an uneasy sleep, the Cybermen were stirring. They were trying to decide who would be the most worthy addition to "upgrade". After much debating, they decided that MP was a very worthy candidate. Almost the perfect candidate, in fact. They slowly, but methodically, began searching for him high and low. At last, they found his compartment. They managed to open the door without causing too much of a disturbance, and found....nobody inside. MP was gone. Cursing themselves, they decided that, perhaps, there was somebody else more worthy of "upgrading". So they retreated to hatch further plans.

The Cybermen weren't alone in being awake and having murderous thoughts. Strax was also awake. He felt that even though Madame Vastra forbade it, it was time for him to once again take up arms. "The rest of my friends are counting on me to help them!" he thought, "By avenging our fallen comrades and annihilating the vermin scum that hunt them! I shall begin at once!" He set out looking for someone, anyone, who looked guilty enough to atomize. The first guilty individual he came along was Elo, who was unaware of his presence. Strax proceeded to aim his weapon at her and pull the trigger. But the weapon jammed. He clicked several more times cursing under his breath, but no luck. "Curses! I will have to find a more efficient way to murder the worthless vermin...I mean avenge for justice! For the glory of the Sontaran race!" He struck off, determined to do such a thing.

The travelers arrived on Karn, immediately noticing how wet and rainy it was. As they disembarked from the Tardis, they were approached by several members of The Sisterhood of Karn. Their leader, Cassandra, spoke to the group, "We know why you have come. You come seeking the Elixer of Life. But we will not help you, for there is evil that walks amongst you. Quell some of this evil, and you will be rewarded. Kill an innocent, and suffer severe consequences from us. But it is up to you to decide...

No one has died.

You have 48 hours to lynch an evildoer. But be careful. Lynching a civilian here could prove to have disastrous consequences...

[Dom]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

[Marmot]

It sounds to me that MP escaped death on his own while someone else prevented Elo's death. Great news though.

[Enrique]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

I don't see what's so wrong with that? We're looking at MP's thought process on the thread, he's been fairly transparent, and he's not leading us on and lying just for the sake of having an opinion. And as of tonight, we also know he's not a Cyberman.

[Enrique]

It sounds to me that MP escaped death on his own while someone else prevented Elo's death. Great news though.

Why do you think Elo was protected? Didn't the gun just jam? How is that any indication of anything?

[Marmot]

It sounds to me that MP escaped death on his own while someone else prevented Elo's death. Great news though.

Why do you think Elo was protected? Didn't the gun just jam? How is that any indication of anything?

That's how it interprets to me. The flavor doesn't look like she negated the death on her own (while MP's did look that way). It looks like a third party was involved somehow.

[Dom]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

I don't see what's so wrong with that? We're looking at MP's thought process on the thread, he's been fairly transparent, and he's not leading us on and lying just for the sake of having an opinion. And as of tonight, we also know he's not a Cyberman.

True.

However, it DOES trouble me that MP has not had a single case he has truly followed through with. He has waned. It's just something that has made me a bit suspicious. I am still far more suspicious of Made.

[Dana]

The post says we only have 24 hours to lynch someone, is that a mistake? Also do we get more letters today?

[birdwithteeth11]

The post says we only have 24 hours to lynch someone, is that a mistake? Also do we get more letters today?

No u.

And we'll see.

[Dana]

The post says we only have 24 hours to lynch someone, is that a mistake? Also do we get more letters today?

No u.

And we'll see.

Please, dear gracious host, grant us more letters on this beautiful morning.

[Long Con]

Last line of the Master: "This is up to and including kill attempts."

[keys56000000000]

MP, what did it for me is Dana's post, the one asking if you really would behave in such a way if you weren't a civvie. I remain unconvinced that anyone who has played multiple games with you would question the plausibility of you successfully feigning your civvie game. You're obviously a good enough player to do so.

Up until that point I thought you could have genuinely been just a very enthusiastic civvie. I definitely thought you were being liberal, sometimes quite wild, with your accusations, but that it was with good intentions. As I said, now I see you as more of someone relishing hiding in plain sight, in the spotlight, even. You're having fun playing the baddie-hunt game, like a good civvie would, but you're also having fun fooling everyone, like a good baddie would.

You keep telling me I don't know your style of play. That I should change my perspective. What are you expecting me to say to that? "Oh, my apologies MP, you cannot be bad, this is clearly just your civvie playstyle! I just had to change my perspective -- seeing you as a baddie to seeing you as a goodie -- to realise that! My bad."?

I don't buy your act. Your subsequent counter-attack is nothing but a lame switcheroo, and somewhat hypocritical of you if you want to dismiss my accusations of yourself as mere reaching.

I haven't caught up fully, but I intend to vote for MP.

[Tangrowth]

Ha, I couldn't help but check the results before actually falling asleep. I had a strange feeling the Cybermen were going to try to kill me tonight. Nice try, suckers!

Dom, that's not true. I failed to mention it before, but I strongly believed juliets was bad and I followed that through hard until the very end.

Keys, so you're going to attempt to incriminate me based solely on the post made by someone else... and yet you're going to gun after me and not them? Right, because that's logical.



Be back tomorrow sometime with thoughts.

[keys56000000000]

Ha, I couldn't help but check the results before actually falling asleep. I had a strange feeling the Cybermen were going to try to kill me tonight. Nice try, suckers!

Dom, that's not true. I failed to mention it before, but I strongly believed juliets was bad and I followed that through hard until the very end.

Keys, so you're going to attempt to incriminate me based solely on the post made by someone else... and yet you're going to gun after me and not them? Right, because that's logical.

I said you were both bad, didn't I? It's only been what, a few hours since I posted that? You keep attempting to put negative spins on my accusation of you. That only convinces me further of your guilt. At the very least, you come off as a massive hypocrit.

[Tangrowth]

If we're both bad, then why me?

Your accusation is completely baseless and ridiculous. Are you even going to consider that I just survived an NK from a mafia team?

Also, buddy... you never responded to this.

Also, keys, I had a look at your posts again and I find it odd you've gone from:

It's great to see players getting stuck in right from the get-go! I hate games where people are too afraid to post. Good to see some balls.

Two things I want to post on.

First, my two cents on the issue of speculating on role powers. IMO it's better to put all our cards on the table. Baddies will be trying to figure this stuff out regardless of anything posted here.

Second, while I agree that it's too soon to really judge anyone, it kinda seems like MP hit on a nerve. Do I detect a bit of Dana defending Zeek? Or is it Dana jumping the gun on what she identifies as an easy lynch? Hard to tell at this early stage, but very possibly. At any rate, I certainly don't suspect MP yet, whereas Dana has "pinged" my suspicio-meter.

Saying I hit a nerve and you "certainly don't suspect" me yet, to:

I think keys was saying Dana might be jumping on an easy target. And Dana said an easy target of who even though she only was discussing MP. So I pointed out that she said herself MP was lynched early. Someone who is always lynched early = easy target.

Splints knows what I was saying. @fs it's like we're like this *two fingers from my brain to yours*

If I saw anything in all of that, it was a baddie Dana overplaying what she saw as weakness in MP. *If* I saw anything. Tbh I was really just throwing out the mildest of pings to see what came back. Which wasn't much. But you can't blame a fella for trying!

@SVS~: why do you think clipping quotes is bad? Nobody wants to read all these quotes, get to the point, I say!

@Epi: what about that exchange seems false to you? I'm intrigued, can you put you finger on it?

@everyone: stop describing MP's play as "aggressive" or "intense", etc - he's just playing the game the way it's supposed to be played.

Continuation of the same assumption, no opinion on me... to:

Seriously, people, answer me this: What is suspicious about pursuing something I detected to be possibly insincere?

I'm not saying I do find you suspicious yet, but I'll answer your question by playing devil's advocate.

It's pretty early in the game. Day 0, to be precise, so technically the game hasn't started yet. So it'd be pretty reasonable to say that there isn't much of anything to go on at the moment. Therefore, your early enthusiasm could very well be merely an attempt at appearing like an enthusiastic civvie.

TL;DR: you could be doing a wine-in-front-of-me thing.

At this stage I don't find anyone suspicious. I don't blame MP or Epi or indeed myself ( ) for trying, but I just don't see it yet.

@canuck: I'm sure somebody else can better answer your question, but I believe the answer is no, you don't need to have watched the original series, and that the reboot is labeled season 1 (2005).

Arguing WIFOM here. But this is the weirdest part...

I'm laughing here. You guys crack me up. I feel like I'm at a casino.

Epi seems like a gambler to me. He's gambling on Enri coming back mafia, in which case he'll take the glory of catching a baddie. If he comes back civvies, as I suspect he would, Epi will shrug it off unapologetically. He's going all in.

MP seems to be throwing shit to see what sticks. If people go for it, great. If they don't, or if the target successfully deflects said shit, it was never his intention to begin with. Just gauging reactions. Hedging his bets, so to speak.

I'm not voting for Enrique. If anything, I'm more convinced of his civvieness than his mafianess after this exchange.

As for Epi and MP themselves, I'm not saying that they're bad. At present I lean towards them being crazy-brave civvies.

Can someone explain what supatown means?


-----

As Splints said, we're going to be away for couple of days visiting my boi Chris. Then I have a busy day saying goodbye to in-laws and enjoying my last day in the states. Then I have a gruelling trip back home across the Pond. So don't expect anything of substance from me till Tuesday, alright? Have a good one.

You here, which takes place AFTER your post before with the WIFOM originally, that you lean towards me being crazy-brave civvies.

To now what you're now saying, that you "practically guarantee" that I'm bad.

Not to mention that zeek has been playing a similar game to me and has posted at least as much but you say nothing about him, AND you never again brought up the Dana defending zeek thing which you only mentioned that one time.

And I don't know if you've caught up yet, but just look at how the Epig lynch went down yesterday. And then you're going to tell me you can "guarantee" I'm bad?

Something smells fishy here.

I await your elaboration.

You just shrugged it off.

So why the change?

Seriously now. Bed time. I look forward to seeing an actual response tomorrow.

[Tangrowth]

Also, EBWOP:

And if the change is SOLELY because of that one post made by someone that wasn't even me, then that's just... crazy. Especially since you say I'm bad with such confidence.

If my alignment is conditional upon Dana's, why lynch me first before her?

[Dom]

Ha, I couldn't help but check the results before actually falling asleep. I had a strange feeling the Cybermen were going to try to kill me tonight. Nice try, suckers!

Dom, that's not true. I failed to mention it before, but I strongly believed juliets was bad and I followed that through hard until the very end.

That's true. You're right. I apologize for that oversight.

[Turnip Head]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

This is the same concern I'm having re: MP, stemming all the way back to his gambit on Day 1. He accused Zeek of some trivial things early, then played that off as a gambit saying he caught a baddie in Enrique, but then he backed off of that too. And then yesterday he stayed on Daisy's case all day but kept qualifying his suspicion ("I'll allow myself to be wrong", "I could be wrong", "I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong" etc etc).

How are you feeling about Daisy these days, MP, and why?

[keys56000000000]

I didn't shrug it off, I literally just explained why the change. To reiterate, again, I think I caught Dana defending you with an argument I find to be entirely unconvincing. I said I certainly don't suspect you yet, which I thought implied that I was giving you a chance. I would have probably gone on thinking you were just an over-zealous, verbose player had Dana not posted that.

You keep complaining about it being one post from someone else. What does it matter how many posts or from whom? I think everyone else will agree with me that it can only take one unfortunate post from a teammate to blow one's cover.

Again, ridiculing my suspicion of you. It's crazy, huh? I think the notion of you relishing hiding in the spotlight is perfectly reasonable, and I'm betting others will see it that way, too. You post A LOT. You accuse practically anyone you can get your hands on, for literally anything. You have people defending you out of the realms of reason.

I'll get to Dana. I thought I saw him/her defending Enrique in a similarly conspicuous fashion, who is coincidentally defending you, too. I can only take on so much, I'm still catching up and I have little sway against you veterans of this site, but I'll get there. Your come at me bro (btw 2011 called and they want their smack talk back) challenge has been accepted.

[Tangrowth]

Ah, fuck sleep.

Ha, I couldn't help but check the results before actually falling asleep. I had a strange feeling the Cybermen were going to try to kill me tonight. Nice try, suckers!

Dom, that's not true. I failed to mention it before, but I strongly believed juliets was bad and I followed that through hard until the very end.

That's true. You're right. I apologize for that oversight.

Hey, not a problem! I failed to mention it myself.

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

This is the same concern I'm having re: MP, stemming all the way back to his gambit on Day 1. He accused Zeek of some trivial things early, then played that off as a gambit saying he caught a baddie in Enrique, but then he backed off of that too. And then yesterday he stayed on Daisy's case all day but kept qualifying his suspicion ("I'll allow myself to be wrong", "I could be wrong", "I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong" etc etc).

How are you feeling about Daisy these days, MP, and why?

I did not back off of juliets. I've been completely transparent in all of my thoughts, though, it's not like I'm backing off without explanation or reason, only after I believe my cases to have not held up to scrutiny, typically from counterarguments from the accused players themselves.

There's nothing wrong with qualifying my suspicion; the reason I'm doing it is so that people know exactly my level of confidence in my suspicions at any given time (I realize I post a lot, so I try to make this clear).

I have no reason to feel even remotely close to 100% or even 90% about a suspicion this early. Do you think I should?

I love how even the second incarnation of you apparently can't resist talking about only me.

And to answer your question... I've been mulling it over for quite some time. I want to make sure I'm not just judging her more harshly because I know her better RL than anyone else. That said, she is still one of my main suspects at the moment.

I didn't shrug it off, I literally just explained why the change. To reiterate, again, I think I caught Dana defending you with an argument I find to be entirely unconvincing. I said I certainly don't suspect you yet, which I thought implied that I was giving you a chance. I would have probably gone on thinking you were just an over-zealous, verbose player had Dana not posted that.

You keep complaining about it being one post from someone else. What does it matter how many posts or from whom? I think everyone else will agree with me that it can only take one unfortunate post from a teammate to blow one's cover.

Again, ridiculing my suspicion of you. It's crazy, huh? I think the notion of you relishing hiding in the spotlight is perfectly reasonable, and I'm betting others will see it that way, too. You post A LOT. You accuse practically anyone you can get your hands on, for literally anything. You have people defending you out of the realms of reason.

I'll get to Dana. I thought I saw him/her defending Enrique in a similarly conspicuous fashion, who is coincidentally defending you, too. I can only take on so much, I'm still catching up and I have little sway against you veterans of this site, but I'll get there. Your come at me bro (btw 2011 called and they want their smack talk back) challenge has been accepted.

Okay, so apparently you guarantee I'm bad based on behavior that isn't even mine. It does matter how many posts or from whom; are you serious? If someone finds 10 posts of someone's own words that are suspicious versus 1 post of someone else's words... surely that's a difference, yes? I won't argue with a teammate sinking anyone; I just find it odd as fuck that you therefore try to argue I should go first. If you're basing the argument that I'm bad based off of the defense of someone else -- if Dana's post TRULY is the ONLY thing that convinced you that I'm bad -- then why make up all these other WIFOM related reasons that you mentioned earlier in the game? And why lynch me before lynching her if my baddieness is conditional upon her defending me? It's simple causation-based logic, yet you haven't given me an answer to that.

And yes, I firmly believe "guaranteeing" someone as bad based off of one post posted by someone else whose alignment you also don't know to be crazy, yes. I'm not insulting you or ridiculing you; I'm sorry if you took it that way because it's clearly not. But it's incredibly illogical to conclude with such confidence in such circumstances, especially when there are so many other players you haven't issued any opinions on whatsoever.

You also failed to address my two points about zeek twice now: (1) zeek has posted even more than I have, so clearly he's taking a similar strategy. No opinion of him? And (2), here you said:

It's great to see players getting stuck in right from the get-go! I hate games where people are too afraid to post. Good to see some balls.

Two things I want to post on.

First, my two cents on the issue of speculating on role powers. IMO it's better to put all our cards on the table. Baddies will be trying to figure this stuff out regardless of anything posted here.

Second, while I agree that it's too soon to really judge anyone, it kinda seems like MP hit on a nerve. Do I detect a bit of Dana defending Zeek? Or is it Dana jumping the gun on what she identifies as an easy lynch? Hard to tell at this early stage, but very possibly. At any rate, I certainly don't suspect MP yet, whereas Dana has "pinged" my suspicio-meter.

If Dana was defending zeek too, then surely he must be her baddie teammate too, right?

It appears your arguments are collapsing amid scrutiny, yet you fail to acknowledge that.

[Dom]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

This is the same concern I'm having re: MP, stemming all the way back to his gambit on Day 1. He accused Zeek of some trivial things early, then played that off as a gambit saying he caught a baddie in Enrique, but then he backed off of that too. And then yesterday he stayed on Daisy's case all day but kept qualifying his suspicion ("I'll allow myself to be wrong", "I could be wrong", "I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong" etc etc).

How are you feeling about Daisy these days, MP, and why?

I'm nervous about this though. This is exactly what I have traditionally suspected MP (I mean going back to years ago). I was traditionally wrong about this.
However, MP is not the same player he was back in 2010.

[Tangrowth]

It appears the Cybermen are trying to make up for their inability to get rid of me at night in a desperate attempt to get rid of me during the day.

(And before anyone jumps on me for this, I'm obviously not being totally serious here.)

[Tangrowth]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

This is the same concern I'm having re: MP, stemming all the way back to his gambit on Day 1. He accused Zeek of some trivial things early, then played that off as a gambit saying he caught a baddie in Enrique, but then he backed off of that too. And then yesterday he stayed on Daisy's case all day but kept qualifying his suspicion ("I'll allow myself to be wrong", "I could be wrong", "I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong" etc etc).

How are you feeling about Daisy these days, MP, and why?

I'm nervous about this though. This is exactly what I have traditionally suspected MP (I mean going back to years ago). I was traditionally wrong about this.
However, MP is not the same player he was back in 2010.

Certainly not, my style has evolved considerably since then.

What makes you nervous, the fact that I'm quantifying the level of confidence in my suspicions? I suppose I could understand the interpretation, but anyone who's anyone has seen that when I'm bad I have no need to fall back upon quantifying my suspicions. Or even when I'm a civvie. I am more than willing to take absolute responsibility for my votes, always. I was totally positive about juliets and wrong. I will be the first to admit that.

So why would I need to quantify my suspicions then for anything other than presenting clarity? Or am I misunderstanding what's making you nervous, Dom?

[Tangrowth]

Quantify or qualify my suspicions, for that matter, since I do both!

[Tangrowth]

By the way, here are the players I'm examining particularly closely today, just posting off the top of my head what I've been mulling over, in NO particular order:

Bullz - Azure voter N1, has been quiet, juliets voter from D1

Elohcin - juliets voter from D1, her responses felt genuine to me, but it's interesting to note that Epig, Daisy, and Enri took more votes than her yesterday

Sabie - see above for Elo, didn't take a single vote

Enrique - Suspicion has been following him but it hasn't stuck too much in the votes... not sure how I feel about him, I've felt torn between definitively genuine and not genuine during the game. Additionally, he would fit the bill of the baddies trying to keep attention onto Epig (and even Daisy) and off of him.

Daisy - Odd insinuation of concern between me and S~V~S not gunning after each other (suspicion mongering), clearly cornered in responses, Azure voter on N1, torn between believing whether the Epig push D2 was to save her or whether she and Epig were both convenient civvie scapegoats and whether I've been too hard on her

Rox - Followed my vote for Daisy, struck me as lack of genuine earlier as well as suspicion mongering, but very measured and genuine responses to my suspicion, so probably lower on my list out of all these people

Hedgeowl - I remember practically nothing about her posts this game

Made - Definitely a new game approach... he said he was suspicious heavily of Epig "all game" but for all of his posts up until his D2 declaration of suspicion against Epig he never expressed that, and failed to vote D1 and failed to even say he would have voted for Epig D1, his suspects were all those getting high amounts of attention D1, now he has suddenly gone quiet

LC - Has been uncharacteristically quiet and one of the Epig voters from D2


Will definitely consider others too, but these are the people I've been thinking about over the course of N2. And JC, to answer your question from N2, I was thinking possibly Enri or Daisy were players that the baddies were trying to keep attention away from, more so Enri because Daisy didn't really have attention on her when the N1 kills happened... but I also wonder if either or both are being scapegoated by baddies amid the genuine suspicions of them by civvies.

Anyway, that's what I have for now, curious to see what else gets brought to the table.

[keys56000000000]

Okay, so apparently you guarantee I'm bad based on behavior that isn't even mine. It does matter how many posts or from whom; are you serious? If someone finds 10 posts of someone's own words that are suspicious versus 1 post of someone else's words... surely that's a difference, yes? I won't argue with a teammate sinking anyone; I just find it odd as fuck that you therefore try to argue I should go first. If you're basing the argument that I'm bad based off of the defense of someone else -- if Dana's post TRULY is the ONLY thing that convinced you that I'm bad -- then why make up all these other WIFOM related reasons that you mentioned earlier in the game? And why lynch me before lynching her if my baddieness is conditional upon her defending me? It's simple causation-based logic, yet you haven't given me an answer to that.

And yes, I firmly believe "guaranteeing" someone as bad based off of one post posted by someone else whose alignment you also don't know to be crazy, yes. I'm not insulting you or ridiculing you; I'm sorry if you took it that way because it's clearly not. But it's incredibly illogical to conclude with such confidence in such circumstances, especially when there are so many other players you haven't issued any opinions on whatsoever.

Le sigh! Forgive me for asking, but do you think everyone playing this game is stupid, MP? You appear to be hiding in the spotlight, basic WIFOM stuff, how many times do I have to say that? Dana's unreasonable, unconvincing defense of you corroborates that. Do I need to post a definition of the word "corroborate"? And yet you keep saying I'm basing this all on one post. Do you think the rest of the civvies here are dumb?

You also failed to address my two points about zeek twice now: (1) zeek has posted even more than I have, so clearly he's taking a similar strategy. No opinion of him?

I can only concentrate on so many people after a a 14 hour intercontinetal journey, especially considering I'm still catching up. Y'know, you keep throwing out other names. What about Dana? What about Zeek? It's like you're running away from me, throwing whatever you can find into my path to slow me down. I'll get to Zeek. At the moment I feel the strongest about you, so I'm concentrating on you.

And (2), here you said:

It's great to see players getting stuck in right from the get-go! I hate games where people are too afraid to post. Good to see some balls.

Two things I want to post on.

First, my two cents on the issue of speculating on role powers. IMO it's better to put all our cards on the table. Baddies will be trying to figure this stuff out regardless of anything posted here.

Second, while I agree that it's too soon to really judge anyone, it kinda seems like MP hit on a nerve. Do I detect a bit of Dana defending Zeek? Or is it Dana jumping the gun on what she identifies as an easy lynch? Hard to tell at this early stage, but very possibly. At any rate, I certainly don't suspect MP yet, whereas Dana has "pinged" my suspicio-meter.

If Dana was defending zeek too, then surely he must be her baddie teammate too, right?

I wouldn't characterise Zeek's play as similar to yours, but you raise a good point. At the time I did feel like I might have caught something there, thanks for reminding me.

It appears your arguments are collapsing amid scrutiny, yet you fail to acknowledge that.

You talk a good talk, I have to hand it to you. You dismiss me and spin my arguments to fit your narrative quite expertly. I simply do not have the time nor the energy to counter your sheer volume of posts and their intensity, but I hope my fellow civvies will be able to identify it for what it really is: an attempt to white-wash opposition.

linkitis: lol @ MP's "I'm looking at all these people today, we'll see what sticks" post. And he calls me ridiculous and crazy.

[Marmot]

Okay, so apparently you guarantee I'm bad based on behavior that isn't even mine. It does matter how many posts or from whom; are you serious? If someone finds 10 posts of someone's own words that are suspicious versus 1 post of someone else's words... surely that's a difference, yes? I won't argue with a teammate sinking anyone; I just find it odd as fuck that you therefore try to argue I should go first. If you're basing the argument that I'm bad based off of the defense of someone else -- if Dana's post TRULY is the ONLY thing that convinced you that I'm bad -- then why make up all these other WIFOM related reasons that you mentioned earlier in the game? And why lynch me before lynching her if my baddieness is conditional upon her defending me? It's simple causation-based logic, yet you haven't given me an answer to that.

And yes, I firmly believe "guaranteeing" someone as bad based off of one post posted by someone else whose alignment you also don't know to be crazy, yes. I'm not insulting you or ridiculing you; I'm sorry if you took it that way because it's clearly not. But it's incredibly illogical to conclude with such confidence in such circumstances, especially when there are so many other players you haven't issued any opinions on whatsoever.

Le sigh! Forgive me for asking, but do you think everyone playing this game is stupid, MP? You appear to be hiding in the spotlight, basic WIFOM stuff, how many times do I have to say that? Dana's unreasonable, unconvincing defense of you corroborates that. Do I need to post a definition of the word "corroborate"? And yet you keep saying I'm basing this all on one post. Do you think the rest of the civvies here are dumb?

You also failed to address my two points about zeek twice now: (1) zeek has posted even more than I have, so clearly he's taking a similar strategy. No opinion of him?

I can only concentrate on so many people after a a 14 hour intercontinetal journey, especially considering I'm still catching up. Y'know, you keep throwing out other names. What about Dana? What about Zeek? It's like you're running away from me, throwing whatever you can find into my path to slow me down. I'll get to Zeek. At the moment I feel the strongest about you, so I'm concentrating on you.

And (2), here you said:

It's great to see players getting stuck in right from the get-go! I hate games where people are too afraid to post. Good to see some balls.

Two things I want to post on.

First, my two cents on the issue of speculating on role powers. IMO it's better to put all our cards on the table. Baddies will be trying to figure this stuff out regardless of anything posted here.

Second, while I agree that it's too soon to really judge anyone, it kinda seems like MP hit on a nerve. Do I detect a bit of Dana defending Zeek? Or is it Dana jumping the gun on what she identifies as an easy lynch? Hard to tell at this early stage, but very possibly. At any rate, I certainly don't suspect MP yet, whereas Dana has "pinged" my suspicio-meter.

If Dana was defending zeek too, then surely he must be her baddie teammate too, right?

I wouldn't characterise Zeek's play as similar to yours, but you raise a good point. At the time I did feel like I might have caught something there, thanks for reminding me.

It appears your arguments are collapsing amid scrutiny, yet you fail to acknowledge that.

You talk a good talk, I have to hand it to you. You dismiss me and spin my arguments to fit your narrative quite expertly. I simply do not have the time nor the energy to counter your sheer volume of posts and their intensity, but I hope my fellow civvies will be able to identify it for what it really is: an attempt to white-wash opposition.

linkitis: lol @ MP's "I'm looking at all these people today, we'll see what sticks" post. And he calls me ridiculous and crazy.

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

[Gotrees]

I had a strange feeling the Cybermen were going to try to kill me tonight. Nice try, suckers!

Yeah, would you care to elaborate on that, MP?

In your defense, Dana has been defending a lot of people this game. Maybe she just sees the good in people.

[Dom]

It appears the Cybermen are trying to make up for their inability to get rid of me at night in a desperate attempt to get rid of me during the day.

(And before anyone jumps on me for this, I'm obviously not being totally serious here.)

MP, regardless of how much you're joking-- you have to understand that mentioning this is eyebrow raising, right? Like... how this is a huge no u...
Also, you are acting as if you are a confirmed civvie. I am seeing a very different attitude in you, MP.

So why would I need to quantify my suspicions then for anything other than presenting clarity? Or am I misunderstanding what's making you nervous, Dom?

What seems to be happening is that the second a suspicion becomes inconvenient or unavailable you are backing off.
And that's weird.

[keys56000000000]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

[Dom]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

I don't think Metalmarsh is defending MP.
I think he's saying that it's unexplained that he survived.


MP, do you know how you survived?

[Gotrees]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

In my eyes that actually makes him a bit more suspicious.

Would like to see him give an explanation of that sentence.

[Black Rock]

Alright slowly catching up and trying to stay current.

A few thoughts on players.

Daisy seems genuine to me, I am leaning civvie here.

Enrique reads baddie to me, once again that's where my vote will probably go.

MP, I'm feeling pretty neutral about him right now. I'm not seeing anything baddie here, just pushy.

I am going to look into Epigs voters posts as well. I feel like there was a last minute push in his direction and I personally did not see why he was so suspicious. Last day is the last I need to completely catch up on so I feel like I am working with full info here.

Linki: Gotrees, how does it make him more suspicious? I might be missing something here.

[Marmot]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

I don't think Metalmarsh is defending MP.
I think he's saying that it's unexplained that he survived.


MP, do you know how you survived?

Yes. And nightkills are fishy.

Also, I've made some progress on the Dalek Sec I believe.

Dalek Sec: The leader of the Cult of Skaro. You are responsible for leading experiments on how to evolve the Dalek race. *Secrets* If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can ------t a -a----- ---------t -- t---. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action ---- --t---- a-- --- ---- a ---- a-a--. -- ta---, --t---- -a-----. -- t-- ---- -a--- --a-- -- t-- ------ ----, that --a--- ---- --t -- a--- t- -----t----- ta---t ---- t-a- -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- -- t-- -a--. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

The capital T means there is no T previously given. I can't think of another word though.

[Tangrowth]

LMAO I can't believe people actually think I'm bad after I just nearly got killed by the Cybermen. This is just astounding.

Keys, I would NEVER throw around the words "dumb" or "stupid" in a mafia game, or outside on this site anywhere. So let's not go there. That's fine, I understand you're still catching up. But you still never explained to me why it makes more sense to focus on me if my baddieness is conditional upon Dana's baddieness. How can her defense corroborate anything when you don't even know her alignment? Do I need to post a definition of the word to you? Don't talk down to me, please. Let's keep this civil.

MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

Gotrees: I know how I survived, that's all I'm going to say.

Dom: Seriously? I never even pointed fingers at anyone for that post nor named any actual suspects. Am I not allowed to joke? I just find it preposterous as fuck that I literally just almost DIED at the hands of a mafia team which completely exonerates me from being on that team, yet IMMEDIATELY people come out of the woodwork and start suspecting me hard. And seriously, inconvenient? Did I back off of JC? Have I backed off of Daisy? I've only given exact terms of how confident I feel in all of my suspicions' content. If you think that's "backing off", then so be it. I've been MORE than clear in stating how confidently I feel about someone being bad, and there's nothing reprehensible in reconsidering your suspicion if you feel it has been logically debunked.

Tons of linkitis, not bothering changing anything

[Tangrowth]

I am just absolutely astounded at this sudden push to get me lynched. My gut reaction says it's definitively baddie-driven, especially after I wasn't even close to being a contender for practically anyone yesterday. What the fuck changed?

[Tangrowth]

Now I will understand if someone wants to peg me as The Master or Daleks (both untrue), but the very fact is we're dealing with concrete facts here: I survived an NK from one mafia team. How many other players are exonerated from one mafia team? Practically none. Are there ways for civvies to survive NKs? Yes. And yet keys especially acts like he has a guarantee that I'm bad and refuses to consider any other perspective. It's inexplicable to me.

[Marmot]

MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

I stand by what I said. Survived night kills are fishy. You're clearly not a cybertron, which makes you less suspish. I also have been getting civvie vibes from you in general. But you still survived a night kill.

Linki: You're not on my lynch list.

Linki 2: Stop posting MP and let me post.

[keys56000000000]

LMAO I can't believe people actually think I'm bad after I just nearly got killed by the Cybermen. This is just astounding.

Again, there are two baddie teams. I can't believe you are using the fact that you were targeted by one as proof that you're good. It seems to me like you think we're all stupid.

Keys, I would NEVER throw around the words "dumb" or "stupid" in a mafia game, or outside on this site anywhere. So let's not go there.

I haven't called anyone dumb or stupid. I'm saying you are behaving as though the rest of us are. You are excellent at twisting people's words. Truly excellent. If my fellow civvies can't recognise you for the bullshitter you are, we are in trouble.

That's fine, I understand you're still catching up. But you still never explained to me why it makes more sense to focus on me if my baddieness is conditional upon Dana's baddieness. How can her defense corroborate anything when you don't even know her alignment? Do I need to post a definition of the word to you? Don't talk down to me, please. Let's keep this civil.

I feel like we are just going in circles here, me repeating myself over and over and over. See previous posts. I hope my fellow civvies aren't buying this bullplop from MP.

[Tangrowth]

MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

I stand by what I said. Survived night kills are fishy. You're clearly not a cybertron, which makes you less suspish. I also have been getting civvie vibes from you in general. But you still survived a night kill.

Linki: You're not on my lynch list.

Linki 2: Stop posting MP and let me post.

Okay, totally fair. And will do.

[Marmot]

We also have 45 hours, so don't flip your shit yet. Just like how you didn't want to post much overnight, I'm sure others felt the same way. I did too as the night wore on.