[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[motel room]

everyone who is using the term "random voting" doesn't actually means r a n d o m do they? Just that its more baseless and frivolous.

[motel room]

i can confirm that I'm listening to Talking Heads at work right now.

[Long Con]

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

*raises hand*

You make a good point. I wanna know exactly what "quiet Epi is never a good thing" really means to FZ. I want to know why she said it exactly, a ideally with some reference points where he was a quiet baddie and it was not a good thing... or something. You know.

[motel room]

I agree with Epi's random voting point, in fact this could be just as dangerous to the civilians as a no lynch for day 1.

so like if I pop a vote on sig here for piggybacking epi's point that to me seems misguided, am i all in or just having some RVS fun?

[kneel4justice]

On to someone else, quiet Epi is never a good thing...

Is loud Epi always a good thing? Be careful what you wish for.

And I think...

...nope, I'm going to harp on this one comment.

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

But the "never a good thing" comment is referring to your alignment. Not your success rate.
While you might wrongfully lynch civvies when vocal, I think that your vocal persona is associated with civilian. Maybe you're not leading the lynches of civvies when quiet, but who's to say you're not killing us off instead?
It is weird that you would try to write your quietness off as something positive, IMO.

[Epignosis]

On to someone else, quiet Epi is never a good thing...

Is loud Epi always a good thing? Be careful what you wish for.

And I think...

...nope, I'm going to harp on this one comment.

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

But the "never a good thing" comment is referring to your alignment. Not your success rate.
While you might wrongfully lynch civvies when vocal, I think that your vocal persona is associated with civilian. Maybe you're not leading the lynches of civvies when quiet, but who's to say you're not killing us off instead?
It is weird that you would try to write your quietness off as something positive, IMO.

And it's weird that you of all people would raise this point.

[kneel4justice]

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

*raises hand*

You make a good point. I wanna know exactly what "quiet Epi is never a good thing" really means to FZ. I want to know why she said it exactly, a ideally with some reference points where he was a quiet baddie and it was not a good thing... or something. You know.

Well, hm.
I don't have that much experience with Epi, so maybe I am wrong in thinking that his vocalness is associated with civ. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I just remember in my very first game, I think that it was WWE Mafia, he was very vocal and controlling of the thread. His personality is one of the few that I remember. Then in Cards Against Humanity, he was very different and quiet, in the beginning at least (he did become very vocal in the end). Now that I am recalling more details of the game, perhaps the quietness was game specific - because the mafia teams were divided, so a team of 4 were broken up into pairs of 2...I don't think that we knew who our other team mates were, so maybe he just didn't want to lynch his teammates. I did play this game a long time ago. FZ and MM saying that quiet is never a good thing with him just added onto my confidence in thinking I saw a difference between his civvie and mafia behavior. Perhaps not?

[Epignosis]

I'll give an example. In Death Note, I was loudly proclaiming FZ. was bad based on great logic and numbers. I was incorrect. I was neutral (but, in my own opinion, civilian allied). I tried so hard to burn FZ.

Yet FZ. raises my quietude as an issue for concern. Consider that.

[kneel4justice]

On to someone else, quiet Epi is never a good thing...

Is loud Epi always a good thing? Be careful what you wish for.

And I think...

...nope, I'm going to harp on this one comment.

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

But the "never a good thing" comment is referring to your alignment. Not your success rate.
While you might wrongfully lynch civvies when vocal, I think that your vocal persona is associated with civilian. Maybe you're not leading the lynches of civvies when quiet, but who's to say you're not killing us off instead?
It is weird that you would try to write your quietness off as something positive, IMO.

And it's weird that you of all people would raise this point.

What do you mean? Because I have not played too many games with you? I spoke on that in my last post. Maybe I am under the wrong impression, but IDK.

[Epignosis]

I mean that you have little experience with me, that's all.

[Epignosis]

I'm still reading. This caught my eye.

I don't think this discussion has a ton of bearing on who is town and who is not, but it's still important to me so I'll pipe in:

Day 1 is an extremely important phase, and when taken seriously it can be highly productive for town/civs. If the day is highly active and everyone makes their best effort to be involved in the continuing discussion, then there will be enough content for real, genuine suspicion to exist. And I would ask the Syndicateers to remember that in this game, if the town wins the game all of the town wins, dead or alive. This means we can be cooperative and transparent in the thread, and be less concerned about evading night kills and more concerned about eliminating the bad guys. That starts right now.

There are 8 people in this game that want to kill everyone else, and if you're not among them they want to kill you. Don't stand for that! They're trying to freaking murder you. They want to make soup out of your brains and toothpicks out of your bones. I hope we can work as a team right here in the thread from start to finish.

*puts down pom poms*

And by caught my eye, I mean HELL YES.

The people who advocate random voting Day 1 and so for, as much as I love you, it's no good.

I believe 3J is good.

[DrWilgy]

*Wilgy ponders around this virtual landscape, kicking at the ground alittle bit* I should make sure to show my gratitude to those who helped me get the A.CEO position. When we get out of here, I'll take my co-workers out for a good drink. Now... what is the fastest way out of here? *Wilgy looks up to see a humanoid pinto bean standing before him, Wilgy grabs his hand and begins to lead him back towards the others* I should introduce this pinto bean to MM! I'm sure they will be friends!

Good afternoon everyone! Sorry about my delay. *Wilgy straightens his tie* I've been catching up and whatnot. Because I'll be cramming a bunch of catch up thoughts in this post, It may end up out of order. I hope everyone can forgive me for this.

Oh! I should also set a precedent here. In order to preform my job as well as possible, I will not be voting for JJJ unless absolutely needed. That is all I will have to say about that much, but I do hope that others can respect this decision of mine. *Wilgy awkwardly bows before his co-workers. It's obvious that he's trying to act his part as A.CEO, but hasn't fully adjusted to his new position*

Before any quotes, I'd like to point out an initial suspicion. It never sits right with me when someone claims that they will be changing and/or playing with a different style after role cards have already been distributed. This applies to Rico, and BWT. I'm not going to go back and try to quote the comment because I'm pretty sure it was Day 0. Rico stated that he'd be more zany and BWT followed suit, almost immediately after Rico. I do not recall BWT's reasoning for claiming a more zany (zanier? zaniest? are those actual words? they don't sit right with me.) and would like to hear about this. Also, someone correct me if my memory of Day 0 events are failing me.

Rbzmncaeaei I find you suspicious that you find it suspicious that I find you suspicious for thinking I'm suspicious.

Your counter argument is very good, though I don't believe there is any connection. I might have come off as being overly defense, but in my experience it is better to be proactive in defending oneself then being accused of ignoring what others have said about you. As I said Matt I didn't mean to keep the very there it just kinda happened.

When I mentioned bcornett24 I was unaware that we were allowed to change votes this game, this makes his early vote less strange.

linki: Interesting our day 0 poll was about different abilities such as option one does so and so.

This is perhaps the Siggiest Sig post I've ever read...

Oh no, FZ is in Serious Business mode. I don't know why you treat me so bad. Think of all the things we could have had.

I am not bothered with how I appear in this game, either. Not one bit. I made a statement to the other players, back in the private Syndicate thread, but it's now vanished. It's not my fault you joined the RYM camp and now you seem to be lashing at me for not seeming as consistent as you'd expect like me to be, just because you have such meta on me from previous games.

Anyway, what I said over there can summed like this: I'm immersing in the theme. Incidentally, the Host happened to also issue a contest that totally justifies my plan to have fun and be zany. TH is fun and zany music, so I plan to have fun and be zany. This will not affect my regular gameplay, only add a dimension to it. As for my regular gameplay, I repeat that you may pretend too much from me, 10 hours into Day 1. You're saying I'm talking a lot, without saying anything, but you're accusing me without bringing too much just as well. If you're clinging on the my post on b24, I literally pointed out that I actually questioned him. If my replies haven't satisfied you, it's you shutting the door, not me.

Don't like fun? Lo siento. Take it easy, take it easy.

Rico, how do you feel this "dimension" will affect the game overall?

Posting because the host tells me I will be a non-participant if I don't.

I will read up throughout today and try to say something intelligent.

Why are you going to put so much thought in what you post? Trying to hide something? Just post your gut reads whether they are intelligent or not.

Or he's been busy and not able to participate?

It really feels like you're jumping down Russ' throat for not being active Day 1.

Is there something wrong with this?

Question for the group:
Was Bea's reaction to one early, changeable vote an overreaction or an appropriate reaction?
Discuss.

Current track: Brian Eno - Sparrowfall (3) (1:24)

I don't know Bea well enough to tell. I would say that it's an overreaction to just one vote when she is a supporter of RVS. If she truly believes that Day 1 is RVS, there's no reason to be worked up over a single vote.

Also, I don't think we gather much from a replacement for day 1.

I disagree, how about we talk about that. Does anyone have decent and/or a bunch of experience playing with TinyBubbles? The one game I played with her she had no alignment so it's hard for me to meta, but from my experience members of the mafia are less likely to ask for replacement. If Bubbles had loyalties to other players would she ask for a replacement Day 1?

Thanks MP for tripping and getting us into this mess. I had a date with a scorching brunette and now I have to play a mafia with a bunch of smelly, uncivilized game engineers. When this is over I'll be bringing this over to the union...

Perhaps this reality's time is different? maybe a day in here is 5 minuets in real life. I don't think the boss wouldn't include a failsafe to get us out of here on time right?right?

So as I'm browsing it seems there isn't much worth quoting. Disagreements in play style seem to be at large here. I find it amusing and wonder where it will take us. I'll place a vote on BWT for now, until I have further information about what was stated day 0, and why it was stated. I'm with the others on abolishing RVS, and I won't be voting for JJJ, Epi, Diiny, or Choutas.

Posting because the host tells me I will be a non-participant if I don't.

I will read up throughout today and try to say something intelligent.

Why are you going to put so much thought in what you post? Trying to hide something? Just post your gut reads whether they are intelligent or not.

Almost forgot about this, I'd like to see Russtifinko's thoughts as well. Rundontwalk, have there been any other posts that stood out to you like this? Why did you respond to this of all the posts?

[sig]

@motel go ahead vote for me, as long as i'm number two it's all good. I however, will be voting for you am I being serious or is it just a random vote who knows?

Also if a point seems misguided (which in my opinion it isn't) why go after me and not the one who originally said it? I agreed with Epi I didn't piggyback off of him, using the term piggybacking is a way to make it seem like I'm scum for agreeing with him, even if he isn't scum, this seems like a very scummy thing for you to do. I'm a weaker player and easier to get lynched, multiply people have voiced suspicions against me, and making it seem that I've been budding up to a stronger player and "piggybacking" off them will justify a Day 1 lynch against me.
find it interesting that out of everything this is what you zero in on especially since I'm not the first to say this about the RVS.

linki: Wigly the Siggiest Sig post ever(I must admit I giggled at that) Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Long Con]

Before any quotes, I'd like to point out an initial suspicion. It never sits right with me when someone claims that they will be changing and/or playing with a different style after role cards have already been distributed. This applies to Rico, and BWT. I'm not going to go back and try to quote the comment because I'm pretty sure it was Day 0. Rico stated that he'd be more zany and BWT followed suit, almost immediately after Rico. I do not recall BWT's reasoning for claiming a more zany (zanier? zaniest? are those actual words? they don't sit right with me.) and would like to hear about this. Also, someone correct me if my memory of Day 0 events are failing me.

I believe a factor of the "zaniness" is the ongoing contest with the prize going to the person who uses the most Talking Heads in their posts. Zanier and zaniest sit fine with me, as the comparative and superlative forms of 'zany'.

[Long Con]

Also if a point seems misguided (which in my opinion it isn't) why go after me and not the one who originally said it? I agreed with Epi I didn't piggyback off of him, using the term piggybacking is a way to make it seem like I'm scum for agreeing with him, even if he isn't scum, this seems like a very scummy thing for you to do. I'm a weaker player and easier to get lynched, multiply people have voiced suspicions against me, and making it seem that I've been budding up to a stronger player and "piggybacking" off them will justify a Day 1 lynch against me.
find it interesting that out of everything this is what you zero in on especially since I'm not the first to say this about the RVS.

Like a 'blood in the water' kind of thing?

[birdwithteeth11]

Rox and others - tend to Day 1 Day 1. We recognise that ALL arguments are based on very little. The weakest of pings. And lacking anything concrete to go on, we reserve the right to random vote.

I don't know how I missed this. But now I REALLY don't feel good about you. I actually agree with JJJ in that if we're actually creating discussion and debating ideas early on in Day 1, it can lead to good leads going forward and possibly make us more likely to catch a baddie.

I know you're coming from an old-school Hedville/Piano mentality, and I can respect that, but the way you've said this really feels like you're trying to detract from a method for catching baddies.

For now, my vote is going to you.

Votes bea

[motel room]

@motel go ahead vote for me, as long as i'm number two it's all good. I however, will be voting for you am I being serious or is it just a random vote who knows?

Also if a point seems misguided (which in my opinion it isn't) why go after me and not the one who originally said it? I agreed with Epi I didn't piggyback off of him, using the term piggybacking is a way to make it seem like I'm scum for agreeing with him, even if he isn't scum, this seems like a very scummy thing for you to do. I'm a weaker player and easier to get lynched, multiply people have voiced suspicions against me, and making it seem that I've been budding up to a stronger player and "piggybacking" off them will justify a Day 1 lynch against me.
find it interesting that out of everything this is what you zero in on especially since I'm not the first to say this about the RVS.

Um this part is exactly what I meant though. I guess it'll all come out in the wash.

dunno if you're a weaker player yet. Who's been suspicious of you?

[motel room]

Before any quotes, I'd like to point out an initial suspicion. It never sits right with me when someone claims that they will be changing and/or playing with a different style after role cards have already been distributed. This applies to Rico, and BWT. I'm not going to go back and try to quote the comment because I'm pretty sure it was Day 0. Rico stated that he'd be more zany and BWT followed suit, almost immediately after Rico. I do not recall BWT's reasoning for claiming a more zany (zanier? zaniest? are those actual words? they don't sit right with me.) and would like to hear about this. Also, someone correct me if my memory of Day 0 events are failing me.

I believe a factor of the "zaniness" is the ongoing contest with the prize going to the person who uses the most Talking Heads in their posts. Zanier and zaniest sit fine with me, as the comparative and superlative forms of 'zany'.

The word "zany" makes me think of how old people describe comedies where a man in a dress falls over and their monocle pops out in laughter. And I think it shouldnt be used in relation to Talking Heads, just quietly.

[sig]

I think your trying to get me to respond in an attempt to make me slip up and get me lynched, and it really isn't my place to tell you who has been suspicious of me that would be like building the case for my own lynch a rather silly thing to do.

[motel room]

I think your trying to get me to respond in an attempt to make me slip up and get me lynched, and it really isn't my place to tell you who has been suspicious of me that would be like building the case for my own lynch a rather silly thing to do.

well we wouldn't want you to slip up now

[seaside]

I had a very brief glance at me cuzzes record collection and 2 record I saw was a talking head record. A sign ofmy good luck in this game. I will be untouchable!!!

[seaside]

All silliness aside. I've had a read through the thread, I haven't taken it all in due only averaging bout 3-4 hours sleep a night these last few days, all the drinking and long drives (not at same time though). I'm currently on a 12 hour drive, having a break from driving, reading this on a tiny screen with a bump y road.

My thoughts are:

1. Policy lynch lurkers.
2. Lynch Mac for having it all worked Putin day 0 but not doing a thing to help town in ANY way but to boast. I reakon he is the rogue.
3. Floyd is a huge town read.
4. Lynch rdw for
5. Zebra is suss as. I'm watching you!
6. I do agree with rdw about targeting syndicate players first.
7. I've had 2 chicken burgers today.
8. Diiny is a huge risk to town and shall need to be constantly questioned.
9. Pressure vote formac 4 now
10. Dbl demerits suck
11. Bit suss on person refusing to vote till the end as knowing where ur mind is can help us make an informed decision.

[espers]

Question for the group:
Was Bea's reaction to one early, changeable vote an overreaction or an appropriate reaction?
Discuss.

Current track: Brian Eno - Sparrowfall (3) (1:24)

i read it as more of a reaction to the reasoning behind the vote than the fact of the vote itself, so on that level it didn't seem like an overreaction.

i am curious about why you'd want to broadcast a leading question like this into the thread without espousing your own position, though.

[espers]

2. Lynch Mac for having it all worked Putin day 0 but not doing a thing to help town in ANY way but to boast. I reakon he is the rogue.

what makes you think he's the rogue? wouldn't he be more likely to be mafia if he's anti-town?

[bcornett24]

Rox and others - tend to Day 1 Day 1. We recognise that ALL arguments are based on very little. The weakest of pings. And lacking anything concrete to go on, we reserve the right to random vote.

I don't know how I missed this. But now I REALLY don't feel good about you. I actually agree with JJJ in that if we're actually creating discussion and debating ideas early on in Day 1, it can lead to good leads going forward and possibly make us more likely to catch a baddie.

I know you're coming from an old-school Hedville/Piano mentality, and I can respect that, but the way you've said this really feels like you're trying to detract from a method for catching baddies.

For now, my vote is going to you.

Votes bea

Although I do agree with that there can be meaningful day 1 discussions generated by debating I also think that RVS helps to generate content especially when participation is lacking. I do recognize that day 1 content can often be wishy washy, but this is not to say that the content generated isn't useful to look back on later and in some cases useful on day one. birdwithteeth11

Now to focus on this post, I think this vote is easy, too easy. This is a convenient chance to direct attention in a very specific direction. This also feels like an attempt to buddy up to jay. Based on this post, I'm assuming that you don't care for or participate in RVS making this a very serious vote. Based on that I am not sure what purpose this is supposed to serve. This feels like a combination of forced interaction as well as suspicion direction.

There have been a few questionable statements made by people thus far but none that have truly hit a cord with me, not like this post here.

[espers]

2. Lynch Mac for having it all worked Putin day 0 but not doing a thing to help town in ANY way but to boast. I reakon he is the rogue.

what makes you think he's the rogue? wouldn't he be more likely to be mafia if he's anti-town?

this is reminding me overwhelmingly of when osokoi/longford made a similarly inexplicable rogue read on a player in rym 87, and he was mafia.

voting seaside

[seaside]

2. Lynch Mac for having it all worked Putin day 0 but not doing a thing to help town in ANY way but to boast. I reakon he is the rogue.

what makes you think he's the rogue? wouldn't he be more likely to be mafia if he's anti-town?

this is reminding me overwhelmingly of when osokoi/longford made a similarly inexplicable rogue read on a player in rym 87, and he was mafia.

voting seaside

Scum would play it more low key
Do u think I'm right or wrong bout Mac?

[motel room]

2. Lynch Mac for having it all worked Putin day 0 but not doing a thing to help town in ANY way but to boast. I reakon he is the rogue.

what makes you think he's the rogue? wouldn't he be more likely to be mafia if he's anti-town?

this is reminding me overwhelmingly of when osokoi/longford made a similarly inexplicable rogue read on a player in rym 87, and he was mafia.

voting seaside

Scum would play it more low key
Do u think I'm right or wrong bout Mac?

What did he do on Day 0?

[espers]

he's not even posted itt, all i remember from the day 0 thread were a couple of ot posts
there's not enough material to make a judgement, but it seems absurd to make the call that he's a likely rogue candidate at this point

linki: he made a post along the lines of "3 pages in and i already have this game solved" and complained about choutas's treatment of him in his rap

the former seems to be what seaside's basing his suspicion of, he can correct me if i'm wrong

[a2thezebra]

The boys are making a big mess. Seven more pages?! Bring it on.

More importantly, I already have a strong town read. Rbzmncaeaei (who I will be calling Zebra).

I must say, your defense pretty much destroyed every point I had to make. The only thing that hasn't been countered (at this point of the megapost I'm still catching up) is the spontaneous votes for you from Epi and sig, and since that only works as a point with the implication that the three of you are a team, (and yes, I know how crazy it is to suggest that on the first day, but I can't help what sticks out to me) I'm willing to let you off the hook (again) for now, but I couldn't honestly say that I reciprocate your town read yet.

As I catch up, I'm starting to get used to how often this community straight up asks out of the blue "are you bad?" to other players for little to no reason. Maybe it's a useful tactic here but in my experience it only does any good for the mafia. For example, I didn't like the look of this:

I accidentally implied I was civilian.

But you're not, right?

How can you accidentally imply you are civilian? Isn't that like the most basic claim used in mafia history, at the beginning and throughout the games?

Here, lemme make you imply some more: Are you bad?

To me it's so obvious that mm was joking that it seems opportunistic to call him out for this, but if it's a community thing, feel free to shoot me down.

I have my doubts that most mafia teams would be concerned enough with a "Dusk 0" poll that they'd deliberately coordinate their votes beyond a couple people maybe on any one person.

Damn it 3J, I want you to be town now. Stop saying stuff like this.

I would normally start off with a vote for sleepystalinist, but he is not here so instead, I'll vote for motel room because he has something to do with sleeping.

Hey bcornett24, usually even random votes are accompanied by a semi-relevant reason (hey, like this one!). What's your objective with this one, m8?

What did I just say.

...

Then again with the context that this is a lynch vote, not a goal-unknown vote, that is kind of suspicious on bcornett's part.

Seaside was the most active poster and asked a ton of questions.

Interesting. I don't think he posted once yet in the main game.

he's currently at the nrl grand final down in sydney, he mentioned this in the day 0 thread.

one thing that might be of note: he asked strawhenge if he had any special abilities in that thread. i asked him about it and he appeared not to know about the infodumping rules (or any of what was mentioned in the first posts of the signup thread)

choutas replied to this exchange, saying that scumslips weren't very common and that seaside's original question read to him as frivolous/banter. that seemed a bit incongruous to me, i'd like choutas to explain it. i might be misremembering the particulars though, wish i could look back over it

I don't remember this but it's definitely worth looking into.

Wow. RBZ! I think I got those first few letters right? Is it cool to call you that? I need nicknames to function.

That is the most well thought out day 1 case I've ever seen! Color me super impressed.
I've only played one game with JJJ and he was civ in that game. He was very vocal while he lived though so I can see where you are coming from here.

Ok -more catching up to do.....

Regarding my case, I would have to disagree with you at this point. :P Thank you though, in the past I have been unable to dedicate myself to supertowning but considering I am currently jobless, school-free, and fixing to move across the U.S. to find myself, I think I have enough time to dedicate myself to a Mafia game or two for once. As for my name, you can call me RBZ, Zebra, CinemaZebra, Keterman, vvlll, Will, Rose, Uncharted, Leech, The Phuncky Feel One (this was my name on The Piano...that's right, The Piano), it doesn't matter. Concealing my identity doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere, so #YOLO.

Why are there so few females playing?

I consider myself female on the inside for what this is worth.

Day 1 is about MAKING concrete evidence through stirring shit and provoking reactions, not just waiting for it to happen and throwing your vote onto random people.

This is very true, and I'm voting for you.

There are different types of baddies. There's Sir Belendsalot, there's Mr. "Look How Helpful I am Being, Guys!", there's Empty Statement Lass. Then there's Detective Aggressive Scumhunt von Threadleader.

I am reading Diiny as this last type.

Yeahhhh the further I catch up the more this looks like the right decision. However, my confidence took a blow after JJJ's defense so I still might end up voting for rdw assuming he still hasn't posted.

I'm also extremely unhappy with Roxy's off topic to mafia ratio. I won't be happy if you randomise at all. Day 1 is about MAKING concrete evidence through stirring shit and provoking reactions, not just waiting for it to happen and throwing your vote onto random people.

Are you "extremely unhappy" because you think her behavior promotes an anti-town strategy, or because you don't think it promotes a town strategy that resonates with you?

Both.

I'm unhappy with Roxy because it seems like weak faux-town play: Not actually voting based off of anything, avoiding committing to anything solid or helpful and then blaming that on a lack of evidence that it's a townie's job to extract rather than wait for. Roxy looks like scum trying to look involved but doing so in the least accountable way. But I'm also unhappy because they could well still be town promoting a strategy or playing the game in such a way that, yes, I don't think benefits town at all.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you until your recent posts, right after I asked how it would look like when you actually discussed suspicions.

As much as too much fluff distracts from the game, I am trusting Roxy more than I am Ricco exactly because she's mainly posting fluff and doesn't seem to be bothered by how she appears, while Ricco is trying to be jokey and throw some thoughts in the middle just to look contributing, but that don't look genuine to me at all. I've seen his answers and they don't make me look better.

I'm with you 100% on the bolded part. Roxy is being classic Roxy from what I can tell (she even called me rude before knowing who I was :P).

I like to go hard and fling shit on day 1, using pressure to gauge reactions not only from the person I'm putting pressure on but from other players, too. If you felt I was being needlessly condescending or aggressive I apologise as that's not my direct intention at all. It does help get the shitstorm brewing, though.

I'm not asking you to change you to convert to those holy words in the Book of Diiny, but I'm nonetheless unapologetically cracking down on behaviour I find potentially anti-town/scummy to try to better understand the motives behind it and hence get a better idea of where I stand on you, provoking reactions for everyone in the process.

And as much as I appreciate that this is your playstyle, there's only so much clemency that being on-meta can invoke from me when that playstyle really doesn't seem that pro-town to me.

I see we share the same strategy and accusations from others of being too aggressive/condescending. Although I try to back my aggression up with legitimate scumhunting.

Oh no, FZ is in Serious Business mode. I don't know why you treat me so bad. Think of all the things we could have had.

I am not bothered with how I appear in this game, either. Not one bit. I made a statement to the other players, back in the private Syndicate thread, but it's now vanished. It's not my fault you joined the RYM camp and now you seem to be lashing at me for not seeming as consistent as you'd expect like me to be, just because you have such meta on me from previous games.

Anyway, what I said over there can summed like this: I'm immersing in the theme. Incidentally, the Host happened to also issue a contest that totally justifies my plan to have fun and be zany. TH is fun and zany music, so I plan to have fun and be zany. This will not affect my regular gameplay, only add a dimension to it. As for my regular gameplay, I repeat that you may pretend too much from me, 10 hours into Day 1. You're saying I'm talking a lot, without saying anything, but you're accusing me without bringing too much just as well. If you're clinging on the my post on b24, I literally pointed out that I actually questioned him. If my replies haven't satisfied you, it's you shutting the door, not me.

Don't like fun? Lo siento. Take it easy, take it easy.

My "too nervous for a town" alarm went off with this post.

Rico's reaction looks a bit forced and unconvincing.

Could you show me?

You needing to be shown this is not helping my potential town read for you.

Bea has opinions about who is Civvie, but none about who is bad. A Mafia member knows every Civvie out there, so can proclaim their trust with confidence. I think bea is Mafia, and I'm going to put my vote on her for now.

*votes bea*

This came out of fuck-nowhere and with no comments on anything else that happened, so it does not look good to me. Really the only reason I'm not more confident that it's a baddie move is that I don't think a baddie would be this bold with such an accusation.

Here, lemme make you imply some more: Are you bad?

Is my milk bad?

Nope, it doesn't expire for 4 more days.

Oh god oh man oh god oh man oh god oh man oh god!

THIS IS WHY THERE ARE SARC TAGS, JAY!

Naw, there might actually be strategic value to this if people really pursue it as something meaningful. Anyone that has even played one game with me knows I was joking when I called myself a low poster.

Like you, Diiny, my protege. What do you think?

By the looks of it, you and Zebra have never played together before. Not only that, but nobody seems to remember this particular back-and-forth except for the two of you.

What if you were just trying to give Zebra an incorrect impression of your playstyle?

For anyone wondering why exactly I would go undercover and pretend to be new, looking for this kind of thing is one of the main reasons. In this particular case, however, I don't think that's what JJJ was doing.

I think the most difficult part is remaining objective. As soon as I see one or two posts that look like baddie behavior to me, I begin trying to read and interpret everything as bad. I haven't gotten the hang of it yet.

I've been playing mafia off-and-on over the course of five years (basically since I met Alex and got banned from ProgArchives) and I have never shaken off this problem. Sadly I don't think I ever will, which is why I wouldn't dare go into real-life detective work; all I see is little dots.

I want to lynch someone from the Syndicate or Choutas.

Looks like I'm not voting for you, at least for lurking reasons. Still catching up peoplez

Posting because the host tells me I will be a non-participant if I don't.

I will read up throughout today and try to say something intelligent.

Why are you going to put so much thought in what you post? Trying to hide something? Just post your gut reads whether they are intelligent or not.

I support his decision to read up before posting suspicions.

I'm with Russt/LC on this one. Reading and thinking before posting does not imply that you are bad lmao.

Brian. (bcornet), you've had a weak start. From a player such as yourself that loves to quickly go toe-to-toe with anything new or challenging that may present itself and read into stuff a lot, I expected more from you than a pretty weak RVS and a lack of meaningful interaction with the thread whatsoever. What's up?

As of last night when I made that post, there was little to no content worth commenting on. Was just looking for some content. I'm reading over everything now, on page 5. There have been 4 pages since I last looked last night which is almost 200 posts.

It's never good when someone pulls the "that's how I roll" card.

Would you agree that Roxy responded in this manner to Diiny when he went after her?

I was wondering about this as well, but I know nothing of any of the syndicaters metas. Is this how roxy normally responds? (It really reminds me of a aether response, one that can't really be read), Maybe somebody that is used to her play style could speak up?

I recall helping get Roxy lynched when I was bad (I think that game was the only time I've been scum on both RYM and the Syndicate, it's crazy how often I get town since I much prefer being bad or independent) before for the same reasons people are finding her suspicious in this game, so I'm reluctant to draw any conclusions about her yet.

I have not ready anything since Day 0 but will try to catch up today. Day 1's are always pretty nuts. Some people vote for themselves. Some people vote randomly. Others vote for those who haven't checked in yet. For Day 1 I will vote along with the person who makes me laugh most?

I hope that by the time you've caught up you won't be doing this.

Long Con, could you please point to posts by bea that do not align with her claim that "her whole argument is she doesn't know yet who is or isn't civ"? You might not buy into her refutation of your accusation, but I need more than a blank dismissal.

...unless this was the way you indicated a vote. I thought you just coloured that to get my attention, but maybe it was intended also as a vote indicator. Too subtle.

He stated earlier that he won't be bolding his votes because it's too difficult for him to notice, so he's going to color them instead. I think I'll combine the two, Long Con.

@Metalmarsh and Choutas could you explain your lynch vote please?

linki: Okay Bcor thanks.

RVP. The good part is that he showed up the bad part is that he's not as active as he should be. Not as active as I remember him. Even his behaviour is different, looks more than a lurker than rdw.
Anyway I was about to move on and stir some discussion.
Macdougall what's up. Why you're so inactive brah?

because it feels weird being on a new website. the layout and everything throws me off. which is why i voted for you. for old time's sake.

I feel like I shouldn't buy this but I do.

Question for the group:
Was Bea's reaction to one early, changeable vote an overreaction or an appropriate reaction?
Discuss.

Perfectly appropriate. That was a terrible excuse for a vote, changeable or otherwise. In comparison bcornett's first vote was perfectly reasonable, as it was earlier in the day and didn't pretend to be a result of scumhunting.

reywaS' post saying 'hello' and then not adding anything to the discussion stuck me as odd, especially because I felt the moment he had came in was when the game was really starting, because Zebra brought forward the case against JJJ. So, why didn't reywaS comment on that?

Everything in this post of yours made me feel inclined to have a town read of you (which would be impressive considering I have either a neutral or baddie read on literally everyone else) with the exception of the part that I've singled out here. For one, reywaS is one of quite a few people I've seen come in and say hello while either not posting anything else since or at the least waiting to catch up before posting again, but especially it seems strange that you would call reywaS out when bcor was not only present at the exact same time, but even threw out a random vote without any comments on my suspicions towards JJJ. I'm more likely to get a town read from someone saying my case on another player is horrendous rather than someone that acts like no such case was even posted, because the latter tells me that they're afraid they might reveal too much about themselves or someone else if they make any comments about it. So it could be that I simply disagree with your singling out of reywaS here, but it could also be that I'm on to your opportunistic suggestions. Time shall tell.

Also, Elo's post struck me as odd, but I am thinking it is once again a cultural difference. Or maybe she was joking? IDK. If someone who knows her better could give me some thoughts on it, that would be appreciated.

I wasn't joking. I want you to be joking....make me laugh . Cultural difference? Where are you from?

This was actually a funny response, lmao.
I'm from K-Site, not many of our players have transitioned over here unfortunately. But some TS players have been kind enough to visit our site. We take things more seriously, because our day phases are much longer than 48 hours. Here a lot of players seem to just randomly vote on Day 1, or even in later phases. So I am kind of assuming that it is your style to do something of that nature on Day 1? Rather than actually try to scum-hunt?

Another yellow flag here. Your initial suspicions of Eloh seemed understandable to me even though I didn't share them, but your response here, particularly the final question, is seeming to imply that you're suggesting someone isn't scumhunting on the basis of a single post in which in that same post they had admitted that they hadn't even caught up yet.

Epignosis votes for sig I suppose because he voted for him as well as mutual appreciation of Kansas. But then we have another inexplicable vote for 3J that is neither explained nor noted other than the vote itself. And now, enter 3J.

I voted sig and sig's choice for his win response. I thought that much was obvious.

I read the rest of your post. I don't agree with you, but I like where your head is.

Way to address a side-note (if it weren't for my "I suppose", I have to wonder how you would've responded to this at all) while ignoring the main point. Your vote for JJJ is still as unexplained as ever.

Oh sure, Epi's vote for me probably influenced my willingness to vote for him on some level. Still, the reason I provided was the truest inspiration. Every time I've played a game with him so far, he's either died immediately, or died right after he and I started duking it out before we could resolve the fight.

This is, as far as I can recall, true.

So you can freely address JJJ's vote for you but you still carefully ignore the reasons for your vote for JJJ? Maybe my team theory isn't as crazy as I thought.

Rox and others - tend to Day 1 Day 1. We recognise that ALL arguments are based on very little. The weakest of pings. And lacking anything concrete to go on, we reserve the right to random vote.

I don't like this. "All arguments [Day 1] are based on very little." All? No, no they aren't. I think I (and others) have demonstrated time after time that Days 1 are a civilian's greatest tool for setting up a winning game. To shrug it off like this in praise of randomness (and who is to prove if someone actually voted randomly) doesn't look good.

Don't validate random voters. Random votes suck, and if you're a civilian, you shouldn't make them.

I think bea's statement is relative, in that she's not implying that there's actually nothing to go on, rather in comparison to later in the game. In contrast, your claim that random votes suck without exception is a much more bold and much more disagreeable statement IMO. I myself don't recall ever voting randomly, but when votes can be changed I don't see the harm in it. You can see that it sparks discussion from this game alone, and anything that sparks discussion can't be too bad in Mafia, and it can't be too good for Mafia. Anyhoo, I agree that you being silent for a bit is no big deal.

I agree with Epi's random voting point, in fact this could be just as dangerous to the civilians as a no lynch for day 1.

so like if I pop a vote on sig here for piggybacking epi's point that to me seems misguided, am i all in or just having some RVS fun?

Excellent point. More often than not there isn't a fine line between a serious and RVS vote.

In order to preform my job as well as possible, I will not be voting for JJJ unless absolutely needed.

I'm not voting for JJJ either (today) but what does this even mean?

So as I'm browsing it seems there isn't much worth quoting. Disagreements in play style seem to be at large here. I find it amusing and wonder where it will take us. I'll place a vote on BWT for now, until I have further information about what was stated day 0, and why it was stated. I'm with the others on abolishing RVS, and I won't be voting for JJJ, Epi, Diiny, or Choutas.

Your unflinching confidence in not voting for certain people is utterly bizarre to me. Can someone (you, preferably) explain to me if this is in-character for you and if so, why?

I think your trying to get me to respond in an attempt to make me slip up and get me lynched, and it really isn't my place to tell you who has been suspicious of me that would be like building the case for my own lynch a rather silly thing to do.

well we wouldn't want you to slip up now

motel room, consider yourself my first strong town read.

5. Zebra is suss as. I'm watching you!

Do elaborate. Also if we're policy lynching lurkers, then you're a top contender. This is your first post and it consists of a bunch of short, unexplained, easily retractable just-in-case opinions.

I'm sticking with my Long Con vote for now because the combination of his overt failure to read everything combined with his unwarranted confidence with his bea vote just screams baddie to me. So I guess that's everything, took me two and a half damn hours to catch up. The power of RYM's post quantity and The Syndicate's elaborate structure is quite overwhelming, but my body is ready. I'm charged up, don't put me down!

[seaside]

Someone called me the most active user in the old thread and I've explained why I haven't posted much and why they are brief posts. If you refuse to see the difference between that and someone who has only posted a couple times without providing a reason, then u are angling which is scummy as!

[Golden]

My stream of consciousness posting as I read through... so sorry if I do address things that are already resolved.

Starting at page 3 - I feel deprived of JJJ vocaroo recordings of Talking Heads songs.

Page 4 - my only experience of Aphex Twin is the piece called... Logon Rock Witch, from the album alarm will sound. It's a standing joke that my best friend and I call the worst song ever.

Oh, and on topic, for those who don't know llama I find his conduct to be pretty on par for llama so far.

Oh, wait, JJJ beat metalmarsh? I thought MM won!!! Yay, no vocaroo deprivation!

Zebra - I find it hard to see your JJJ suspicion as very well founded. JJJ is known for being the exact opposite of a minimal poster, and I took his post in what I assumed was an ironic tone. He was apologising because he is known for posting a huge amount. Of course, my own assessment that nothing happened in our day 0 thread is my own assessment, and its ok if others disagree. I didn't find anything personally suspicious in that thread. I missed the tail end of it, though. I also have to say I am a big fan of cases based on day 0 so I'm a fan already. While I don't agree with your case, when you started linking in to Epi and sig, it did make me think there is a great chance that anyone with more than one or two votes could be mafia with teamies trying to help them win. So JJJ, Wilgy, MM... I'd have to check the poll to see if there were others.

Page 5 - and we start with MM not being able to read the rules.

@sig - early random voting is normal on RYM.

I don't think I have ever seem someone attempt to line up an interaction-based theory on three bad guys this early in a game.

It certainly wasn't this early, but in my first game I did a mega-super case linking three people and how they were bad. It took me hours, and linked back to well over 100 posts I think. All three were civs, and I was ignored and summarily lynched. Lol. But it was a great introduction to the game.

I completely agree on your zebra read, I had no idea it was your first game zebra, wow, you seem like a pro already.

Page 6

Hey RYMers, let me give you a little insight on some things that are either polarizing or unpopular on The Syndicate, so you can do them even more to drive them nuts.

~ rainbow lists
~ broadcasting your town reads
~ ISO analyses

very true.

Can't say I'm surprised no one said "OMG, Bea should totes be our assistant CEO! She rocks my world!" But still....I'm a little sad.

I came very close - it would have been you if not for MR F blazing a comeback trail.

I note FZ suspects Rico. I haven't put my finger on why yet, but this is also the person I feel most uneasy with. Once I've caught up totally, if I still feel that way, I'll figure out why and tell you all about it.

Thats it for now.

[Choutas]

Someone called me the most active user in the old thread and I've explained why I haven't posted much and why they are brief posts. If you refuse to see the difference between that and someone who has only posted a couple times without providing a reason, then u are angling which is scummy as!

In defense of seaside he did tell he's leaving for the countryside, I think it was a footy match or something. As long as he commit later on I don't think it's bad if some people have a slow start.

[kneel4justice]

reywaS' post saying 'hello' and then not adding anything to the discussion stuck me as odd, especially because I felt the moment he had came in was when the game was really starting, because Zebra brought forward the case against JJJ. So, why didn't reywaS comment on that?

Everything in this post of yours made me feel inclined to have a town read of you (which would be impressive considering I have either a neutral or baddie read on literally everyone else) with the exception of the part that I've singled out here. For one, reywaS is one of quite a few people I've seen come in and say hello while either not posting anything else since or at the least waiting to catch up before posting again, but especially it seems strange that you would call reywaS out when bcor was not only present at the exact same time, but even threw out a random vote without any comments on my suspicions towards JJJ. I'm more likely to get a town read from someone saying my case on another player is horrendous rather than someone that acts like no such case was even posted, because the latter tells me that they're afraid they might reveal too much about themselves or someone else if they make any comments about it. So it could be that I simply disagree with your singling out of reywaS here, but it could also be that I'm on to your opportunistic suggestions. Time shall tell.

Honestly, I didn't realize that other players were guilty of doing the same thing. Probably because with reywaS, his response was one-worded, so it struck me as memorable, because I was left wondering where he went, in combination with the fact that I paid more attention to him because of his Cyclops icon, lol. I don't know the majority of the players in this game or how to read them, so I haven't been able to widely focus on everyone.
But, if I was mafia - I think it would be more opportunistic to call a few other people out on the same thing.

Also, Elo's post struck me as odd, but I am thinking it is once again a cultural difference. Or maybe she was joking? IDK. If someone who knows her better could give me some thoughts on it, that would be appreciated.

I wasn't joking. I want you to be joking....make me laugh . Cultural difference? Where are you from?

This was actually a funny response, lmao.
I'm from K-Site, not many of our players have transitioned over here unfortunately. But some TS players have been kind enough to visit our site. We take things more seriously, because our day phases are much longer than 48 hours. Here a lot of players seem to just randomly vote on Day 1, or even in later phases. So I am kind of assuming that it is your style to do something of that nature on Day 1? Rather than actually try to scum-hunt?

Another yellow flag here. Your initial suspicions of Eloh seemed understandable to me even though I didn't share them, but your response here, particularly the final question, is seeming to imply that you're suggesting someone isn't scumhunting on the basis of a single post in which in that same post they had admitted that they hadn't even caught up yet.

It did not seem to me as though Elo had the intention of scumhunting, because she said that her Day 1 vote would go to the player who made her laugh, so yeah. And as hard as it is for me to not suspect that reason, I've learned that is just how some players on this site approach Day 1.

[a2thezebra]

I think I need to meditate a bit more on these recent developments before I continue posting. I'm going to be closely looking at every vote made so far.

[Long Con]

Rbzmncaeaei, I take offense that you accuse me of not reading everything. I read everything, and bea is the one who raised my eyebrow. Unlike you, I have a job, and I have kids, and I have responsibilities, so I don't always have time to write hour-long posts that broadcast every thought I have about every post in the game. I read, I analyze, and I consider who I think is bad. I don't feel the need to respond to every conversation that has gone on in the game.

Suspect my suspicion all you want, but don't accuse me of not reading every post, because that is not true.

[HamburgerBoy]

I know the Roxy vs Diiny thing has already been thoroughly done by now, but I'll just add my piece and say that Roxy is playing pretty much exactly how I remember her (town) in the Frisky Dingo game, a bit of banter and dismissive when called out on it. While I could see Diiny coming in aggressively and head-on into conflict even in light of his last game (which he already mentioned getting lynched for day 1 over, i.e. meta-forcing), I don't know if he'd risk it in new territory against new players that may not be as receptive. Consider it a town lean on read on Roxy, null on Diiny for now.

[HamburgerBoy]

He tried the regular rym opening move. Some of them are "Are you scum?", "Do you have a special ability", "You're town?". In the earlier games it was pretty wild "Tell me your role", "Give me a reason not to shoot you today" etc. Seaside is old school. He's still listening to 2Pac and Biggie while you guys have moved to Nicki and Kanye.

Unfortunately I didn't pay much attention to the day 0 poll, but if this is accurate it's unusual to me. My first game with Seaside was probably in the early 70s, so you might have a different experience with him, but I don't think of his as a proactive player questioning players. What you're describing sounds more like rdw's meta or something. Sus to me.

[HamburgerBoy]

Also

3. Floyd is a huge town read.

Why? He's said almost nothing.

[a2thezebra]

Well obviously I'm going to need to come out of hiding to address this.

Rbzmncaeaei, I take offense that you accuse me of not reading everything. I read everything, and bea is the one who raised my eyebrow. Unlike you, I have a job, and I have kids, and I have responsibilities, so I don't always have time to write hour-long posts that broadcast every thought I have about every post in the game. I read, I analyze, and I consider who I think is bad. I don't feel the need to respond to every conversation that has gone on in the game.

Suspect my suspicion all you want, but don't accuse me of not reading every post, because that is not true.

I'm sincerely sorry for offending you, my tendency to start drama unintentionally is another one of the reasons I've continued to avoid mafia and online communities in general, starting over with a new name after new name again and again. My wording was overly harsh to drive the point in but I did not mean to imply that there was anything wrong with your style, or anything about you for that matter. My reference to you not reading was referring to your comment to JJJ wondering why he colored his vote for you rather than bolding it, when he explained that earlier. Noticeably missing a single post is a far cry from an "overt failure to read everything", so I take that back, even without the context that it offended you, so again, I apologize. The only thing I take issue with in your response is the assumption that I have no responsibilities; you could not possibly even imagine how incorrect you are with that statement, but it's a reasonable assumption considering everything else, so no hard feelings.

[motel room]

Ohhh shit zebra is keterman

This ain't the mudd club after all

[Strawhenge]

Hey guys, I've had a busy and stressful weekend and haven't had a chance to get on here. I'll catch up as soon as I can.

[HamburgerBoy]

I just realized, can we not edit posts on this board? Makes sense for a mafia board, just want to make sure if in the future I find myself double/triple/etc posting heavily where an edit could suffice.

Leaving my vote on Seaside for now until he clarifies the two things I mentioned. I also just read over the argument between Diiny and JJJ a few times because the first time I almost made a mistake and misattributed something to JJJ. I agree with his point that what Diiny did could have gone beyond what could caused a reasonably worthwhile reaction from Roxy. I didn't see Diiny asked it in this exact way though so to make things clearer: what specifically were you expecting to gain as a reaction? As in, what kind of reaction would have provided what kind of view on her alignment? Your beef with Roxy was entirely based on posting style; if this was RYM and you made that kind of argument with a regular there, it would make sense that a reaction could show a change in behavior inconsistent with meta. For Roxy, though, you have no idea what her meta is and no idea what a reaction would tell of her alignment. After all, some town players actually end up looking worse when pressured the wrong way.

[Golden]

Picking up half way through page 6 again.

Diiny - this is technically RYM90, so from a precedent perspective I'd say you could do not need to stop at merely persuasive and could go binding.

Also, please everyone excuse my need to lawyer geek out with Diiny. I have no Kate or Mongoose. Plus diiny's signature quotes Miller v Jackson. Sort of.

Page 7

Seems like RYM peeps are finding some culture shock getting used to TS peeps. Roxy and Sorsha haven't raised an eyebrow from me yet.

RYM people, seriously... get ready for how big a culture shock this is. Open setups drive secrecy, and while this game is 'win dead or alive', players here also have to know hoe to play with the 'die and lose' mentality, so you can expect RYM-like play to make you an immediate target as you fail to blend in. Welcome to being me I used to be an outlier here, but in this game I might be normal.

I've been diiny's scummate, I've been diiny's townmate. Right now I trust him a lot. He feels very town to me.

Bea - I miss FH too where is she!

Page 8

Rico on this page is making me vote rico. I'm not a fan of the slightly defensive rico I'm seeing. I still need to go back and think about why I feel bad the whole time. It does start a bit with hearing that even he and MR F were going at it in the other thread. Aggressive rico bothers me. In the words of llama, I think there is precedent for rico playing the Detective Aggressive Scumhunt von Threadleader style.

Whoop whoop, rico's response to Choutas is definitely deserving of pedantic pink. Let's not attack the suspicion, lets just discredit the player with a semantic reading. I'm talking of this post here:

Choutas, you've helped a few people by explaining their behavior in a pro-town manner, and your explanations have been valid. I do wonder though whether you've been viewing the thread through the opposite lens: is anything suspicious to you yet?

The sample is quite small. Most RYMers have barely posted and I have no idea how to judge the Syndicators. Usually when someone acts aggressively I view that as a towntell. There is always a degree of patience and neutrality to a good scum play.
I think the Ricochet vs FZ is a good start. Rico's reaction looks a bit forced and unconvincing.

You seem to have said in the same phrase "I have no idea how to judge the Syndicators" and "I have enough of an idea to judge a Syndicator".

Also, Diiny continues to look good to me.

And I'm really beginning to be bothered by JJ - his questioning seems pointless. Certainly, I'm not seeing JJ make any points with it. It bothers me when I see someone asking a lot of questions without bothering to put anything of their own opinion into it at the same time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Golden, if you show me which questions of mine you're talking about then I can show you exactly what the point was.

[Golden]

Also, what is this, Vocaroo wars? Loving Roxy and JJ having what appears to be a best vocaroo fight.

You milk marmot now? That sounds disgusting. Please no.

@Rico - RVS is great with changeable votes, because it can push some people into the act of talking, but you can also get a clear sense of whether or not people are being logical over time. It's different to be sure, but it's still important to test that when a vote finally lands for the end of the day, it is logical. It just creates a new form of analysis. (Which I guess JJ and MM kind of went on to say).

I do not like LC's vote for bea. Unless it is an attempt at RVS and not a genuine vote, in which case it would be ok.

I like ISOs. They work best if you think about them as taking a collection of notable posts and thinking about whether each suggests a town or anti-town mindset. Then you might reach a possible conclusion or might not. Either way, they can actually be very good for exposing links and tactics. And they can also (as Roxy said) end up looking completely misleading.

Got to the bottom of page 9 but that's it for tonight. I don't want to end up like G-Man and be in catch up mode all game, but I'm super busy and I'm trying to make sure that I take everything in and don't just skim it. And you all are posting fast.

linki @jj - I believe that is my impression of you from reading through pages 7 and 8 in a relatively short timeframe. It was a lot of specifically questioning Diiny about his behaviour towards Roxy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If this:

And I'm really beginning to be bothered by JJ - his questioning seems pointless. Certainly, I'm not seeing JJ make any points with it. It bothers me when I see someone asking a lot of questions without bothering to put anything of their own opinion into it at the same time.

stems from this:

linki @jj - I believe that is my impression of you from reading through pages 7 and 8 in a relatively short timeframe. It was a lot of specifically questioning Diiny about his behaviour towards Roxy.

Then I would ask you to read that content again when you have an opportunity. I questioned Diiny thoroughly for sure, but never failed to state my own perspective. At that point I had my vote on Diiny, and I continuously explained to him exactly what my misgivings were. I was working out my suspicion of him (for which I didn't have that much conviction) to decide whether he would become a candidate for my final vote or not. I eventually decided I won't vote for him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ohhh shit zebra is keterman

That would explain a lot. Zebra, is it true?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In any event, every question I ask in a mafia game has a purpose even if it isn't plainly visible in the post. If I'm given specific references to questions I asked that seemed pointless, I can describe why they weren't pointless at least for me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Posting because the host tells me I will be a non-participant if I don't.

I will read up throughout today and try to say something intelligent.

I hope you're able to get involved Russ. I've only gotten to play with you for maybe one day phase, and I think we'd get along great (just generally speaking as players).