[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Draconus]

My first vote for the day goes to Devin. His style is similar to mine and I hate myself so make the math.

Me too

As long as it's not for being a "lurker." I'm not even being that this game. For RYMers: I am a Staff Accountant who experiences extreme business for at least 2 weeks out of the month, every single month. It begins on the 1st of each month and runs for 2 weeks after that (pending any unexpected delays). I'm stating this, btw, because I saw some discussion of lynching lurkers or low posters. Just wanted to explain my position those unfamiliar with me.

I will go ahead and put a placeholder on Diiny again. Though, I did like the points LC was making about MacDougall. Will go back and read that more carefully if I get a chance to.

[Draconus]

Talking about low posters, I just remembered something from Recruitment IV: Reywas did hide in the background as the SK in that game. Nothing definitive, but something to consider...

[rundontwalk]

Devin the Omniscient

you should have seen this coming

[Draconus]

Devin the Omniscient

you should have seen this coming

Yours is possibly the first vote on me to every make me a little upset. How could I have possibly seen your vote coming? I don't know you and I don't know why you're voting for me. Explain now, please.

[rundontwalk]

it was a joke cause you're omniscient

i'll note your strange reaction to said joke

[rundontwalk]

Wow, bloody night, RIP everybody. THere are a lot of posts for me to catch up on, but I'll make sure to vote for a baddie today.

this is a scum post

[Draconus]

it was a joke cause you're omniscient

i'll note your strange reaction to said joke

Go right ahead. Clearly I'm not omniscient. It's just a reference to one of my favorite artists and one of his albums Made the user ID about 5 years ago, and now I wish I could change it

Linkie: You're right. But that's also normal llama

[rundontwalk]

on RYM the scum sometimes make the classic ''oh gee look at all the dead townies, how sad'' posts right after the nightkill. llama's post reminded me of that.

[Choutas]

Voting Seaside until he explains his numerous arbitrary reads to satisfaction.

Your view of Seaside is right and I agree with it it's just that he told me before the game starts that he'll try his best to get lynched early in order to have more free time. It might sound ridiculous but I know Seaside and he's frankly ridiculous. On the other hand if he stops playing midway he'll be a problem to the mods and us.

It's a lose-lose situation to me.

So why did you vote for him in the Dusk 0 poll when we were deciding on who our CEO's should be? If you knew he was going to try and get himself killed early on, it doesn't seem townie to me for you to vote that way.

I think the day 0 poll for the extra power is not as important as the assistant to the CEO poll where we have no idea what was gained.

I voted for seaside and Matt F. Seaside because he's a functional alcoholic and needs all the encouragement we can give him and Matt F cause he's Matt.

So you believe the Day 0 poll was important, yet you vote for seaside, who told you he was going to do his best to get killed, and me, whom you've never played with once.

Well seaside is a friend and he would bring it up if I didn't. Also I like your name, seaside's name is also Matt. Go figure.

[rundontwalk]

am i your friend Choutas?

[Choutas]

My first vote for the day goes to Devin. His style is similar to mine and I hate myself so make the math.

Me too

As long as it's not for being a "lurker." I'm not even being that this game. For RYMers: I am a Staff Accountant who experiences extreme business for at least 2 weeks out of the month, every single month. It begins on the 1st of each month and runs for 2 weeks after that (pending any unexpected delays). I'm stating this, btw, because I saw some discussion of lynching lurkers or low posters. Just wanted to explain my position those unfamiliar with me.

I will go ahead and put a placeholder on Diiny again. Though, I did like the points LC was making about MacDougall. Will go back and read that more carefully if I get a chance to.

Now you make me feel bad. I feel it man it's actually pretty bad for me to contribute too for reasons that have little to do with work. It was a transient vote you weren't supposed to be my definite vote for the day.

[Choutas]

am i your friend Choutas?

If wanting someone head's on a stick is friendship then yes we are friends.

[Draconus]

on RYM the scum sometimes make the classic ''oh gee look at all the dead townies, how sad'' posts right after the nightkill. llama's post reminded me of that.

Yeah, I've made that mistake here. Many others have, too. It is something to think about, I guess.

Linkie Choutas: Don't feel bad. I'm not holding your vote against you. I just felt it was fair to let everyone unfamiliar with me know about my work situation.

[Matt]

Well seaside is a friend and he would bring it up if I didn't. Also I like your name, seaside's name is also Matt. Go figure.

This doesn't answer why you would vote for him if you knew he wanted to die early.

Let me explain. I haven't spoken with any TSers for a few years, but back when I played, I considered reywas one of my good buddies, which is why I voted for him in Dusk 0. However, if reywas had told me pre-game that he planned on dying soon after the game starts, as a civvie, I would not have voted for him to be our CEO.

So, again, why did you vote for your friend as one of our CEO's when

a) You seem to think that poll was important

and

b) You had inside information that he wasn't really into the game and wanted to die quickly

?

Btw Devin, don't know if you're serious, but I'm pretty sure MP allowed me to switch my username from "MR F" to "Matt F", if you really want your name switched.

[Draconus]

Hmm. Good to know, Matt. I will look into that after this game to avoid confusion. Thanks for the tip

[sig]

And RIP HB as well. Sorry to see you go. Question to Rymers: How much of a threat is he considered to be when a civ? If he's known to be a very good player over there, this could be the job of someone who knows him well, or if he wouldn't be one of the first targets, maybe someone he's mentioned as suspicious

Burger is one of the best townies on RYM. His best asset is his tenacity when communicating his suspicions and demanding responses -- when he isn't completely satisfied with someone's answers he will continue interrogating them for literally the entire game until they do satisfy or they die.

You say this about Hamburger Boy, but you think I someone who was only mafia twice was able to hoodwink one of the best townies?

Also if he was one of the best civilians on RYM do you think this could mean the SK is from RYM and attempting to kill strong players?

I'm going to be out much of this real-time day. At the moment I am most suspicious of these folks:

Seaside
Long Con
sig

All three have plenty of material they can respond to though, I'm not locked in on anyone. Change my mind.

Why both me and Long Con? Long Con flipflopped on me saying early in the phase he was satisfied with my response, but then turned around and voted for me, at the time he voted for me I could have very well been lynched, why if we were both mafia would he do this?

To me this seems like an attempt to get one or both of us lynched, you're keeping your options open to see which of us could be lynched today. I still find Long Con suspicious so I will need to look him over, it just seems strange you would have both of us on your list.

The only big thing I see with Kneel was that he was suspicious of Epi he mentions Elohcin but not much. They also got a few pings from Jay.

Hamburger Boy
Seaside was his number one mafia read, this makes me more likely to vote for Seaside, another main suspicion of his is Long con.
I already plan to look them over so it doesn't give us much information and I'm still unsure of a Seaside lynch.

Seaside hasn't really said anything scum or town to me, his post which seems to be drawing attention is this one.

DrWilgy (12), bcornett24 (14), Matt F (23), HamburgerBoy (25), Sorsha (27), Diiny (28), sig (31)

i reakon we got at least 2 scum here
dr wilgy and diiny?

While I don't find him saying 2 scum suspicious I'm curios why he picked out these two players.
So Seaside why do you find Wilgy and Diiny scummy?
Who else do you find suspicious who do you think is clean why?

@TheFloyd73
Why did you vote for AceofSpades?
What do you think of the night kills?
What do you think about Seaside and why?

You are active enough to come and place a vote so please answer my questions I won't bite

[FZ.]

3. Go after BWT's voters when it was an hour before deadline (way too late in my opinion) and comment about how he doesn't understand how BWT was the leading candidate, but not really offering any other solid option other than K4J and saying it was too late (which we know how that ended, by the way), and then voting for someone for the silliest reasons.

Please expand.

This is his reasoning for the vote, that came 4 minutes before deadline, and it was the last vote made:

"I do think it's suspicious that Epi deliberately misinterpreted this point. At least, it looked like he did to me. I mean, I get why - no one wants to be suspected on Day 1. But he wrote a pretty impactful-looking response that really didn't address the point against him."

That adverb.

How do you KNOW I deliberately did something? Maybe I didn't mean to...maybe I misunderstood. That, of all the things you supposedly read, you chose to comment on this?

And you can't deliberately misinterpret something. If you deliberately misinterpret something, we have another word for it: You're lying. There's no such thing as deliberately misinterpreting something. That's like saying, "He deliberately misjudged the trajectory of his car so he could run over a civilian."

Nah.

Voting Russtifinko.

Addendum: Roxy harps against voting people new to the site (that's my understanding of her ways).

Or maybe I'm deliberately misinterpreting something.

Notice that he was eyeing BWT's voters and looking into them, yet while one (sig) had 4 votes already and another (Diiny) had 3 he voted for a person who wasn't one of the voters. In addition, if he knew it was too late to save BWT, why not for the person he said he would have gone after initially:

Nor can I, epi.

Diiny and sig work as self-defense.

Epi... who would you, given the absolute discretion to determine who got lynched today, choose to go with?

I just realized I have about an half an hour to vote.

I think k4j jumped onto FZ.'s ideas and held on for dear life. FZ. at least deserves to make my life hell for one game. But the points they raised are demonstrably false. And she says I twisted FZ.'s words (FZ. actually said that, but didn't elaborate), when in fact I provided a response that didn't match her interpretation of FZ.'s words.

I think k4j is being opportunistic. So if I had carte blanche over this lynch, that's where I'd drop it.

On a related note, I just had a thought that if I'm wrong about Epi, and he's a civvie after all, which I still doubt, Russ is a person who I can see trying to frame him with this kill, because that would get Epi suspected and possibly lynched, eliminating a person who was suspicious of Russ.
But I still think my first option is better.

[Choutas]

Holy shit did you just buddy me rdw? That's a scummy thing to do yikes.....
I think you're scum or pissing on this game. Either way you just got me abjectly horrified.

linkie: I said it was more important that the other poll. It's still a theory since we have no idea what assistant to the CEO does. Well voting for seaside meant I was the only guy voting for him since he's not popular like JJJ is. I don't think your theory has any real sense since there was zero chance of seaside getting that position ask another RYMer to tell you. It would make sense to vote for someone that got elected or was close to elected if I were scum, no? Instead I did the opposite, put two votes so the mods don't say I didn't. Had no impact to the poll whatsoever. You should be looking into the pile that voted the two assistants not me.
I still don't understand what my inside info had to do with anything with the poll. I am really having hard time grasping that please expand. Again I didn't want my contribution to have any impact. I didn't care for the shit other players promised(not voting the guys who voted for them). Again what is the controversy here? Would it look better if I impacted the poll? Do the players who impacted look better than me or worse?

[Choutas]

If this were RYM I'd send a pm to rdw telling him I hate him and he'll never amount to anything but this is the syndicate and private communications are not allowed, bummer...

[Matt]

linkie: I said it was more important that the other poll. It's still a theory since we have no idea what assistant to the CEO does. Well voting for seaside meant I was the only guy voting for him since he's not popular like JJJ is. I don't think your theory has any real sense since there was zero chance of seaside getting that position ask another RYMer to tell you. It would make sense to vote for someone that got elected or was close to elected if I were scum, no? Instead I did the opposite, put two votes so the mods don't say I didn't. Had no impact to the poll whatsoever. You should be looking into the pile that voted the two assistants not me.
I still don't understand what my inside info had to do with anything with the poll. I am really having hard time grasping that please expand. Again I didn't want my contribution to have any impact. I didn't care for the shit other players promised(not voting the guys who voted for them). Again what is the controversy here? Would it look better if I impacted the poll? Do the players who impacted look better than me or worse?

So, assuming you are a civilian, you simply didn't care about the Dusk 0 poll and what impact it would have on the rest of the game? I'm not sure if that's basically what you're saying.

Anywho, I'm out for the day, but will be back late late late tonight.

Peace

[Marmot]

If this were RYM I'd send a pm to rdw telling him I hate him and he'll never amount to anything but this is the syndicate and private communications are not allowed, bummer...

Your privates can communicate, you just can't privately communicate.

[FZ.]

All he's really done so far is:

1. excuse my accusation by making it something it wasn't and then playing ignorant to what I really meant (yes, I meant you being quiet is a bad thing in terms of alignment, not in terms of you not being a lousy civvie like any of us at times).
2. making long posts with multi quoting where he mostly addresses general comments like what is his opinion of lazy playing and other irrelevant topics.
3. Go after BWT's voters when it was an hour before deadline (way too late in my opinion) and comment about how he doesn't understand how BWT was the leading candidate, but not really offering any other solid option other than K4J and saying it was too late (which we know how that ended, by the way), and then voting for someone for the silliest reasons.

I just had a good look at both of you. I don't really like your case and I think it counts against you to be honest. You are actually questioning a guy for not lynching a townie which is serious wifom and such a scum thing to do. Not to mention the fact that this post;

Matt F suggested that he might change his vote, but I don't see him doing so at this point.

Somebody read him. I don't believe he ever mentioned bwt prior to his vote.

That's...tacking the third vote on somebody for no stated reason.

In my opinion is a townie post. This is someone who is actively analysing and storing information about gut scum reads. If this is a scum post, you are assuming that Epi made a mental note of a townie saying they might change their vote, waiting a fair amount of time, then calling them out on it, rather than playing what's in front of them to play what suits them at the time. I find it very difficult to believe that a scum player would play this way, especially while being questioned by two other players.

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

I concur with epi again.

Does concurring with him affect your trust of him? Do you not find it a little weird that Epi has done nothing to attract any attention so far? Is that what you expect of him in his civvie mode?

You are using meta to draw suspicion against a player who in isolation has done nothing to deserve it. It's fair that of course you have better knowledge of Epi's past play than I, but as a scum player I really love hanging people by their own defined meta. Using meta to call someone scum when they are town is easy because townies generally aren't focused on playing to their meta, scum players are. So to me personally I find scum players more likely to play to a set and publicly known townie meta than scum players. Does that make sense? Like it comes across so far that Epi has a pretty well known townie meta, and is not playing to it. If Epi's meta is so well documented, wouldn't Epi just come into the thread doing what Epi does?

I also find meta is actually bullshit. People play the way they play and it's only really nervous first time scum players that stick out like dogs balls. Anyone who has played a few times just plays the way they play, town or scum imo. Like I said, I use meta as bullshit to get people lynched. In fairness I do it when I'm town as well when I have a gut read on someone I want lynched, and you have been tunneling the shit out of Epi, so I could easily see you just wanting to get Epi lynched and pulling bullshit out of the air to do so town, or scum.

I find it funny that me and K4J are the only ones thinking Epi might be suspicious. K4J looks more civvie to me, so I'm wondering if this is a case of culture thing (we both come from the same site), or what, but I can't understand how no one else is even considering Epi. All he's done so far is agree with people and make a joke about my suspicion. JJJ says he didn't do a no U. Like Epi would be caught dead doing a No U.

linki: LOL, we think alike too much

This is from the previous day where you say "all he's done ... then proceed to reduce his posts down to something to suit an agenda. I really don't like this. If you want to question a guy's posts can you directly refer to them, quote them. Don't just paraphrase them, especially when it turns out you are actually bullshitting. " When you say "make a joke about my suspicion" what you actually mean is made a small case about your suspicion being scumfounded. When you say you agree with people, what you mean is agree with a point JJJ made so hard that he publicly proclaimed him a town read. You also failed to point out this post, which doesn't fit into either of the categories you lumped all of Epi's posts into.

Epignosis votes for sig I suppose because he voted for him as well as mutual appreciation of Kansas. But then we have another inexplicable vote for 3J that is neither explained nor noted other than the vote itself. And now, enter 3J.

I voted sig and sig's choice for his win response. I thought that much was obvious.

I read the rest of your post. I don't agree with you, but I like where your head is.

...I understand it is Day 1 and we have little to go on but this seems kinda very weak.

Not sure how I feel about Rbz's theory, however, if you are civ, then shouldn't this read "...but this IS very weak" as opposed to "seems" and "kinda" ?

I like Matt F's point here.

Oh sure, Epi's vote for me probably influenced my willingness to vote for him on some level. Still, the reason I provided was the truest inspiration. Every time I've played a game with him so far, he's either died immediately, or died right after he and I started duking it out before we could resolve the fight.

This is, as far as I can recall, true.

Rox and others - tend to Day 1 Day 1. We recognise that ALL arguments are based on very little. The weakest of pings. And lacking anything concrete to go on, we reserve the right to random vote.

I don't like this. "All arguments [Day 1] are based on very little." All? No, no they aren't. I think I (and others) have demonstrated time after time that Days 1 are a civilian's greatest tool for setting up a winning game. To shrug it off like this in praise of randomness (and who is to prove if someone actually voted randomly) doesn't look good.

Don't validate random voters. Random votes suck, and if you're a civilian, you shouldn't make them.

I should say that's more than an accusation of you being too quiet per se, it's an accusation of you being fundementally off-meta.

Sorsha also raised my eyebrow, chiming in to answer an easy question about polls and then leaving without sharing any views or making any real attempt to play mafia.

I'm also extremely unhappy with Roxy's off topic to mafia ratio. I won't be happy if you randomise at all. Day 1 is about MAKING concrete evidence through stirring shit and provoking reactions, not just waiting for it to happen and throwing your vote onto random people.

Voting random people with no concrete evidence is just as good to get the ball rolling. Random voting phase is a legitimate strategy and not something we made up on rym. If only more people voted randomly and sparked discussion on day...if only.

It is a strategy, but it's a lazy one, and one that is prone to Mafia abuse. How many of you actually RANDOMLY vote? I would say it isn't random voting, but lazy voting. Instead, engage people in conversation. Judge their tone. Set them up if you must. "Random" voting just telegraphs your moves to the Mafia. If I were bad on your site, I'd eat you alive. Often.

I miss Flyin' High. Like lots.

I miss her too. She single-handedly won my first hosted game.

On to someone else, quiet Epi is never a good thing...

Is loud Epi always a good thing? Be careful what you wish for.

And I think...

...nope, I'm going to harp on this one comment.

"Quiet Epi is never a good thing."

Well now let's see.

Raise your hand if loud Epi ever railroaded you when you were a civilian and got your ass lynched.

Raise your hand if you wished loud Epi would have shutted up the fuck.

I thought so.

I don't see why me being quiet is "never a good thing."

And it is this last point that gets you my early vote. Because you seem to be more interested in getting Epi lynched than finding scum. So I will be voting for FZ.

This isn't the reaction I was hoping for, but at least it's getting us talking about Epi as well.

I'll try to answer you as best as I can.

A. I'm not questioning him for not lynching a townie. I'm asking why he started talking about that lynch an hour before deadline, and after looking at all the voters for BWT, ended up voting for a completely different person at the last second, when his vote couldn't do anything. And knowing that your vote would only serve as an announcement of your intentions, why not vote for the person you said should have been voted? It felt to me like he didn't really want to save BWT, but rather want to show he's concerned for someone who's going to end up being lynched anyway.

B. I'm not sure what you're saying in the underlined paragraph about his post regarding Matt F. I think he was setting people up for the fall that would come when BWT would come out civvie.

C. Regarding the meta, I disagree. I think meta is something that is very hard to control. Sometimes, it's what others notice about you, but you can't see yourself as they claim. I never get what the hell people are accusing me of when I'm bad. I always think it's BS. And by the way, I usually can't fool people who know me well no matter how much I try to change my meta, because there are things I just don't see. So we'll have to disagree on this, and it's your prerogative to find me suspicious for it, but that's my opinion. I think Epi tries to step up his game later on when called on it, but he sometimes doesn't notice that he's being different. By the way, I'm not saying it's impossible to be different and still a civvie. I just wonder if this is the case this time.

D. I'm quoting the part of your post I want to reply to:

This is from the previous day where you say "all he's done ... then proceed to reduce his posts down to something to suit an agenda. I really don't like this. If you want to question a guy's posts can you directly refer to them, quote them. Don't just paraphrase them, especially when it turns out you are actually bullshitting. " When you say "make a joke about my suspicion" what you actually mean is made a small case about your suspicion being scumfounded. When you say you agree with people, what you mean is agree with a point JJJ made so hard that he publicly proclaimed him a town read. You also failed to point out this post, which doesn't fit into either of the categories you lumped all of Epi's posts into.

I hate making these long posts, because nobody reads them, so I say things the way I interpret them. But this pisses me off. I said "make a joke about my suspicion" and meant exactly that. Did anyone really think that when I said "quiet Epi is never good" I meant I love Epi's posts and how I miss his lovely posts? Was it not obvious I meant that it's a worrying sign? He joked about how when he's vocal he pushes for civvies' lynches using me recent experience in Death note mafia to cement that notion. I have no idea what JJJ's post you mean. Why don't you practice what you preach and quote the posts you refer to?
And the post you did quote from Epi is just another post in my opinion of something which was very easy to answer and reply to instead of actually sharing thoughts and suspicions.

D. I was under the impression that by trying to get Epi lynched, I was trying to get a scum. My bad. Vote away.

[FZ.]

MM, your posts today remind me of baddie MM. Can you elaborate on your thoughts and suspicions a little more than what you've done so far?

[thellama73]

I think the K4J kill was more likely to come from an RYMer than a Syndicater, so I will concentrate my attentions there.

[a2thezebra]

I think the K4J kill was more likely to come from an RYMer than a Syndicater, so I will concentrate my attentions there.

Something about your posts today feel a little staged/rehearsed however you want to put it.

[seaside]

seaside - Clusterfuck post history in this thread, easy baddie read but also an easy mislynch? We shall see, right now I have a baddie read.

easy misylynch indeed
i'm thinking jjj is scum now. floyd is def town i reakon. i'm pretty solid on that.
diiny is just scummy you know, i played with him once and he won the game as scum. i was SURE he was town, can you trust that?
putting the pressure on instead of letting him just cruise through in town mode, is a good good option.
wilgy i thought would be scum cause you all thought the same, i could see by the votes.

i guessed two because i doubt 7 would jump on and i don't think too many scum would of jumped on, they just had to get it started and get the numbers. which were quite low. so the first person i reakon was scum and i think diiny jumped on to confirm it.

[seaside]

Between that and his random town-read on TheFloyd (and his out-of-meta tons-of-questions day 0 stuff), I feel pretty strongly that Seaside is scum this game. It's worth noting that Seaside sometimes lets BTSC stuff leak out in the thread as well. For example, his scum game on RYM's #79 Inception Mafia, there was some specific theory the entire mafia team wanted to sell to help them in some way; I forgot the specifics, but this was the post, Seaside echoing aether (who was also scum that game). Of course, there's a bit of a difference between the Inception thing and some off-hand attempt to try and smear people on a mislynch, but since games here should require more focus on lynch tallies (with no roleclaiming allowed), I'll use it to put Zebra/vvlll under more scrutiny too.

BTSC ?

[Choutas]

Between that and his random town-read on TheFloyd (and his out-of-meta tons-of-questions day 0 stuff), I feel pretty strongly that Seaside is scum this game. It's worth noting that Seaside sometimes lets BTSC stuff leak out in the thread as well. For example, his scum game on RYM's #79 Inception Mafia, there was some specific theory the entire mafia team wanted to sell to help them in some way; I forgot the specifics, but this was the post, Seaside echoing aether (who was also scum that game). Of course, there's a bit of a difference between the Inception thing and some off-hand attempt to try and smear people on a mislynch, but since games here should require more focus on lynch tallies (with no roleclaiming allowed), I'll use it to put Zebra/vvlll under more scrutiny too.

BTSC ?

Behind the Scenes Communication.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

seaside - Clusterfuck post history in this thread, easy baddie read but also an easy mislynch? We shall see, right now I have a baddie read.

easy misylynch indeed
i'm thinking jjj is scum now. floyd is def town i reakon. i'm pretty solid on that.
diiny is just scummy you know, i played with him once and he won the game as scum. i was SURE he was town, can you trust that?
putting the pressure on instead of letting him just cruise through in town mode, is a good good option.
wilgy i thought would be scum cause you all thought the same, i could see by the votes.

i guessed two because i doubt 7 would jump on and i don't think too many scum would of jumped on, they just had to get it started and get the numbers. which were quite low. so the first person i reakon was scum and i think diiny jumped on to confirm it.

Why am I scum? Why is Floyd town? Why is Diiny scummy? Clarify further on Wilgy.

Your reads seem to come from nowhere, like they developed at the subatomic level.

[Elohcin]

Maybe we are just cooler than everyone else.

No, but seriously. Do you really think if we had BTSC that we would vote the same way? And, I think I was the first to vote too. I think you are grasping at straws here Matt. (Nice to have you back on the syndicated though I have fond memories of our BTSC together. Don;t ask me the name of the game, I never remember that sort of thing. But I remember having fun with you.)

Hi Elo. I forget the game, too, but I believe it was one of your first on TS, if I recall? Good times

Now, down to business...

1) Maybe you wouldn't vote together if you had btsc. But if Sorsha was mafia, would you put it past to her to intentionally vote the same three options as a Civ and/or possible indy? This way, if she were to be lynched, especially early in the game, people might look at the person she voted with?

2) Who are you looking at today? Rereading you, I see you voted Diiny on Day 1 because Mac made you laugh...?

1) Yes, that is actually a very good point. And you could be onto something there.

2) I did vote for Dinny b/c Mac was the only one to make me laugh the whole day. I promised at the beginning of the day that I would vote alongside the person that made me laugh most. Now, Mac did end up changing his vote after that and I was unaware of it until after the poll ended as I was away from the computer. I do not plan on keeping up with this trend, however I do think it is very important to have fun and laughter in a Mafia game and I do hope that at least one person will make me laugh today. Heard any good jokes lately?
As for who I find suspicious, it is difficult for me to tell. First of all, this is a full game and if you remember me, it takes a while for me to wrap my head around SO many players. Add unfamiliar personalities to the mix and I feel I am in information overload when I read the thread. It is my assumption that some of the baddies are lying low while others are quite vocal.

hmm....wow, I started this post hours ago, got busy, and never posted it Well, I will post it now and then catch up.

[FZ.]

seaside - Clusterfuck post history in this thread, easy baddie read but also an easy mislynch? We shall see, right now I have a baddie read.

easy misylynch indeed
i'm thinking jjj is scum now. floyd is def town i reakon. i'm pretty solid on that.
diiny is just scummy you know, i played with him once and he won the game as scum. i was SURE he was town, can you trust that?
putting the pressure on instead of letting him just cruise through in town mode, is a good good option.
wilgy i thought would be scum cause you all thought the same, i could see by the votes.

i guessed two because i doubt 7 would jump on and i don't think too many scum would of jumped on, they just had to get it started and get the numbers. which were quite low. so the first person i reakon was scum and i think diiny jumped on to confirm it.

Why am I scum? Why is Floyd town? Why is Diiny scummy? Clarify further on Wilgy.

Your reads seem to come from nowhere, like they developed at the subatomic level.

Why are you asking so many questions? Do you always ask so many questions?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You say this about Hamburger Boy, but you think I someone who was only mafia twice was able to hoodwink one of the best townies?

There is no reason for me to assume you'd be incapable of fooling HamburgerBoy for a single day phase. He's a fantastic townie, but he isn't infallible -- and you're not completely empty of ability (I haven't really played with you at all, but you appear to be a perfectly capable mafia player so far).

Also if he was one of the best civilians on RYM do you think this could mean the SK is from RYM and attempting to kill strong players?

That could be. Or someone directly threatened by him may have offed him. Or a Syndicate player may have seen enough from him stylistically to consider him a good kill choice. All of these are rather speculative.

Why both me and Long Con? Long Con flipflopped on me saying early in the phase he was satisfied with my response, but then turned around and voted for me, at the time he voted for me I could have very well been lynched, why if we were both mafia would he do this?

I listed you both as suspicious; I never implied you both had to be mafia together. You do make a nice point that would need to be considered before that connection can be drawn with confidence. I had no intention of drawing that connection though. You're both suspects of mine independent of one another. I really don't like to try to piece together mafia teams before even one of them has been exposed -- that's a dangerous and usually distracting exercise. I admire those ambitious enough to try, but I don't think it's the best approach.

To me this seems like an attempt to get one or both of us lynched, you're keeping your options open to see which of us could be lynched today. I still find Long Con suspicious so I will need to look him over, it just seems strange you would have both of us on your list.

I told you both, as well as Seaside, that you'd have the opportunity to change my mind. If I don't change my mind then I will absolutely try to get you lynched. That's the point.

For the moment I am getting mixed feelings from your responses. I don't think your answers are convincing from a logical front, but your tone is somewhat moving. Logic isn't everything. I'll mull it over, and hopefully focus on some other people too if time allows.

[Golden]

Once again, as a function of how little time I have at the moment, I've let myself get behind. Thankfully the game is moving a bit slower, and I do have some time to dedicate to catching up tonight, so you can expect some posts from me after that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why are you asking so many questions? Do you always ask so many questions?

Asking questions is my way of getting more out of players. If they've made a statement or assertion that I think is either unexplained or inadequately explained, then I will press them to expand on it. This is behavior I've exhibited for years in mafia and I have found it quite effective. This is also a convenient way of interacting directly with people; I find it easier to read players when they are discussing their content with me in relation to my specific queries. Every question I ask has a distinct purpose (aside from a few goofball posts that probably exist out there), and if it's ever unclear what that purpose is then you should ask me. I'll have an answer, and if I don't -- lynch me and make me die because I'm scum.

I ask more questions than any mafia player in the universe aside perhaps from Sloonei. He even influenced me in this way I think.

[FZ.]

Once again, as a function of how little time I have at the moment, I've let myself get behind. Thankfully the game is moving a bit slower, and I do have some time to dedicate to catching up tonight, so you can expect some posts from me after that.

Other than suspecting Rico, you haven't said much that I can recall. Any other suspicions? Can you finally elaborate on you Rico suspicion?

linki: Thanks for answering. What have you learned from your questions?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

linki: Thanks for answering. What have you learned from your questions?

Regarding Seaside specifically, nearly nothing. I need him to talk to me or that isn't likely to change.

Otherwise, I need you to point to a specific question so I can recall my own mindset and then find the answer if one was ever given.

[FZ.]

You asked so many questions. Did they help you form opinions on the players? Who are your 5 top suspects?

[DrWilgy]

Good afternoon everyone. My name is DrWilgy, and I am most definitely not a doctor.

I'm sorry for not being active the past days. My midterms will be half complete tomorrow afternoon, and I plan to catch up after that.

[Golden]

Once again, as a function of how little time I have at the moment, I've let myself get behind. Thankfully the game is moving a bit slower, and I do have some time to dedicate to catching up tonight, so you can expect some posts from me after that.

Other than suspecting Rico, you haven't said much that I can recall. Any other suspicions? Can you finally elaborate on you Rico suspicion?

linki: Thanks for answering. What have you learned from your questions?

Well, you should read my posts again.

I've named a number of strong town reads, and I've also said I suspect brian and JJJ. And I voted for rey. I've given quite a bit of content while I've read up.

But I need to do it again. And no, I haven't put my finger on what I don't like about rico, but his responses to me did not help. Especially all that aggressive/intense/defensive stuff. He seems to think you can not be aggressively defensive, but it just reads to me like he was defending himself with semantics instead of trying to actually get across his thought processes.

But I haven't got a holistic view of why the gut feels say rico is bad yet. And anyway, when I'm caught up, I'm not sure if he will stay number one, because I already feel worse about brian than I do about rico.

But, anyway, in terms of my thorough read I'm still back at page 16, and thats where it will stay until tonight my time, because I just haven't really had any spare time during the day to put thought in.

[Ricochet]

I'm all charged up, but life tends to put me down, 'cause I can barely get a couple of hours to play, afternoon and evenings, these days. I have early classes tomorrow, so I can't stay long and will pick up a few ideas from the Day so far.

The "2 mafia in BWT's soup" guess doesn't raise me any pings by default, because I remember such ideas being thrown in often (in the form "I can see X baddies being involved in that action, in that lynch, in that whatever-you-have-it), at least here on TS. Besides, both Zebra and seaside ballparked it at "at least 2", not 2 dead on. I feel seaside's post is worse than Zebra's, because he threw in Wilgy's and Diiny's names without elaborating.

Epig's post-death posts on K4J give me pause, I'm wondering if he's slightly pulling the "Golden" move from Recruitement or putting WIFOM up on the wall with nonchalance. I can see him working without remorse with any such tricks. I have to look more into this.

As for the "2 out of 7 BWT voters are bad" idea... it's arbitrary and unhelpful. Maybe none of them are bad, and the people trying to push this idea as if it's a real, supported theory are hoping to milk it for 1 to 7 Civvie lynches. Maybe 4 out of the 7 are bad, and the baddie team decided to save one of their own who was getting up there in votes.

A more reasonable theory is that (Nothing But) Flowers is an RYM person who wanted to hide their vote in the biggest bandwagon. That, at least, makes some sense. Talking about that makes me think of someone (McDougal? motel room?) who brought up that role. When I read that post, it felt suspicious to me, like the reason for bringing it up was because they were that role, or at least a teammate. I want to go back and read it again.

Linki: RIP you guys.

Comments on the Flowers theory. If the baddies controlled the late stage of the vote (either pushing BWT to 7 votes or keeping him there and spreading the tally otherwise), then Flowers had nothing to worry about, whatever he chose. Diiny and sig were at 4, I think, so his triple vote, if he's not from the same forum with either of them, would have only made them stand at 6. He could have still spread his vote elsewhere, instead of bandwagoning on the top lynch. So, with all these options, why is bandwagoning the "more reasonable"?

just got back from Venturing Scouts about half an hour ago so I will come back with my reads tomorrow to tired to do it right know.
These were interesting, I will need to go and read Hamburger boys and kneel's posts tomorrow
My feeling is seeing how HB was killed by then SK he posted something about them, so they decided to kill him before he could lynch them, thoughts on this?

No we won't find out the roles, unless they are mafia I think?

HB was killed, as you say by the SK, yet you speak of "them" killing HB to shut him up?

Rico - Yes, I believe Day 0/Dusk 0 are important. Whether you are civvie or Mafia, I can understand why you wouldn't want a big discussion on Day 0 considering your outright neglect of MP asking for "no ties", but yes, I believe Day/Dusk 0 are important topics. However, I don't think I've even mentioned Day 0 since I posted both polls side by side, and nobody cared to respond.

I like your punches' style, I'll give you that. Luckily, I was born under them, so the heat goes on.

We discussed extensively in the Day 0 about what I did. You never interpreted it as "outright neglect" and I find it unfair for you to paint it like that, now that the Day 0 thread has vanished. How was it neglect when I literally acknowledged in my vote post that there's no way for me to avoid two ties, after a single option to break a tie out of the three? And I'll say it again, like I did back then, just because you had a good window to not create any ties, doesn't mean it was easy for everyone. The poll itself, in the end, was the result of a mixture of some people making clean choices and others not. It doesn't incriminate any of the latter category, since the poll ended up clean.

Also, you took what I said about your activity in a different direction. I meant that, from your D1 activity, there's a lot of D0/Du0 talk and a lot less D1 input. It's like you serving me with a tiny slice of meat in a big loaf of bread and I ask you "hey, where's the meat?" and you reply "oh no, bread is good for you".

And RIP HB as well. Sorry to see you go. Question to Rymers: How much of a threat is he considered to be when a civ? If he's known to be a very good player over there, this could be the job of someone who knows him well, or if he wouldn't be one of the first targets, maybe someone he's mentioned as suspicious

Burger is one of the best townies on RYM. His best asset is his tenacity when communicating his suspicions and demanding responses -- when he isn't completely satisfied with someone's answers he will continue interrogating them for literally the entire game until they do satisfy or they die.

Ok, so does that make you think the SK is a RYMer who knew how dangerous HB is when in town gear and wanted him gone? Or is this rather the WIFOM that the SK would like us to follow?

Ricochet - Nervous defense after nervous defense, but like I said before, nervousness isn't necessarily bad...I do have a gut feeling he's against us.

First, your rainbow list lacked rainbows.

Now, you can keep calling nervous in my talk, but I'll say it again, I'm anything but that. It's not the first time I'm unflinching in rebutting what I'm suspected for and time has proven that.

Also, you're in a very Mr. Eyeballer mood today.

I demand a list of reads from all players. I know mine's prettyintricate, detailed, and cohesive, but yours doesn't have to be quite so professional.

Reading is leaning on a addiction for me, so the prospect of doing this to 31 players sounds like suicide. But I might try a short version; tomorrow, though.

Talking about low posters, I just remembered something from Recruitment IV: Reywas did hide in the background as the SK in that game. Nothing definitive, but something to consider...

I wonder why would you bring that up, considering you were also a nightly Killer that acted as a low poster (and, furthermore, never got caught because was all "nah Devin would never do that on purpose).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You asked so many questions. Did they help you form opinions on the players? Who are your 5 top suspects?

Any answer to a question I ask will help at least a little bit in the forming of opinions, so long as that answer is not deliberately null (example: What are your specific misgivings about Player X? -- "He farted").

I gave three top suspects when I last left the thread: Seaside, Long Con, and sig. I am still working through responses from the latter two though. Otherwise, I would say rundontwalk is suspicious for being behaviorally way outside his boundaries in a circumstance that I'd expect to make him a self-parody rather than a lurker. bcornett24 is a suspect too, I should have mentioned him before with the others. In his short time so far as a mafia player he has been known to put a lot of work into mechanics theorizing and expressions of reads -- in this game so far he has been very go with the flow and underwhelming.

[Roxy]

I am behind by a few pages but wanted to post anyway.

Been busy with my own game - silly players with silly questions
jk I <3 all my players!

I plan on catching up where I last left you and posting thoughts tonight!

Hope everyone had a really groovy Wednesday <3

[FZ.]

Once again, as a function of how little time I have at the moment, I've let myself get behind. Thankfully the game is moving a bit slower, and I do have some time to dedicate to catching up tonight, so you can expect some posts from me after that.

Other than suspecting Rico, you haven't said much that I can recall. Any other suspicions? Can you finally elaborate on you Rico suspicion?

linki: Thanks for answering. What have you learned from your questions?

Well, you should read my posts again.

I've named a number of strong town reads, and I've also said I suspect brian and JJJ. And I voted for rey. I've given quite a bit of content while I've read up.

But I need to do it again. And no, I haven't put my finger on what I don't like about rico, but his responses to me did not help. Especially all that aggressive/intense/defensive stuff. He seems to think you can not be aggressively defensive, but it just reads to me like he was defending himself with semantics instead of trying to actually get across his thought processes.

But I haven't got a holistic view of why the gut feels say rico is bad yet. And anyway, when I'm caught up, I'm not sure if he will stay number one, because I already feel worse about brian than I do about rico.

But, anyway, in terms of my thorough read I'm still back at page 16, and thats where it will stay until tonight my time, because I just haven't really had any spare time during the day to put thought in.

Okay, I'll be waiting. By the way, who's Brian? Is that seaside?


linki: Obviously I get that each question helps you. I was just wondering if you already had serious suspicions, and you answered that. Sorry, all the Rymers kind of tend to mix together for me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And RIP HB as well. Sorry to see you go. Question to Rymers: How much of a threat is he considered to be when a civ? If he's known to be a very good player over there, this could be the job of someone who knows him well, or if he wouldn't be one of the first targets, maybe someone he's mentioned as suspicious

Burger is one of the best townies on RYM. His best asset is his tenacity when communicating his suspicions and demanding responses -- when he isn't completely satisfied with someone's answers he will continue interrogating them for literally the entire game until they do satisfy or they die.

Ok, so does that make you think the SK is a RYMer who knew how dangerous HB is when in town gear and wanted him gone? Or is this rather the WIFOM that the SK would like us to follow?

That could be. Or someone directly threatened by him may have offed him. Or a Syndicate player may have seen enough from him stylistically to consider him a good kill choice. All of these are rather speculative.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Brian is bcornett24.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wish I had enough time to attack this game at full throttle and ISO everyone. Sweden begins tomorrow though (and getting prepared has made me busy throughout this game), so I'm going to be well-under the JJJ mean in contributions. I hope people understand that in the coming week when they assess my content.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you find it easy to believe, then good. It was supposed to be believable. I wasn't planning on "expanding on my misgivings" so much, but I got questioned hard (by you if I recall correctly), so I shrugged and gave it the ol' college try, bringing up bea's posts and going through them one by one to find scraps that would support my "case". You both led my posts in that direction, and then followed them now. My posts weren't made in isolation; they were prompted by you yourself. Don't ask for something and then bring it up a day later that I provided what you asked for as suspicious.

I know I asked for them. I will absolutely not concede your responsibility to explain your own content though regardless of the role I played in its generation. When I asked you to expand on your bea case, I had "maybe Long Con is pretending to be suspicious so he can see who will latch on to his case like baddies might" nowhere in my thought process. You put it there after the fact, so I'm forced to reassess ALL of your content on this topic with your new story in mind.

I'd like to know bea's alignment before jumping to any conclusions about those people. Any pings or nods in that direction would be tenuous at best for now.

Then let's tenuously examine the scenario from both sides. If bea is town, how does that reflect on everyone else in this discussion? If bea is scum, how does that change the situation?

I am trying to determine whether your story is genuine. I need to see every facet of your mindset to do that. If you're going to pull a gambit like this, then you should expect to be thoroughly interrogated -- I will not just trust you at face value without proper inspiration.

I am not suspicious of bea. That doesn't mean she's not a baddie. I don't think that her actions on Day 1 constitute enough evidence to conclusively say she's bad, like I did. But she might be! Maybe it will turn out that my "case" was exactly right and now we have a scum tell for bea that we can carry through the ages. I didn't make any attempts to prevent some pressure landing on bea, and I wouldn't try to prevent it in hindsight. From my perspective, that's a good side effect. You of all people should be able to appreciate some added pressure on a player.

Werd. Pressure is good. Continue to apply it to players with reckless abandon. If you're town then I support you forever in that.

[Ricochet]

I wish I had enough time to attack this game at full throttle and ISO everyone. Sweden begins tomorrow though (and getting prepared has made me busy throughout this game), so I'm going to be well-under the JJJ mean in contributions. I hope people understand that in the coming week when they assess my content.

A 50-post gap isn't that much, maybe I'll still have a chance to recover.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wouldn't kill k4j for two reasons:

1) I would appreciate the challenge of outsmarting him. Turning the tables and getting him lynched instead...assuming I thought he was bad, which I did.

2) I haven't seen k4j in a month of Sundays. No, I wouldn't kill him.

Who would I kill?

I'd probably kill 3J. I have never been on the other end of his civiliansanity, and I don't know if I'd last.

I'm not sure #1 meshes with your reason for hypothetically killing me. You'd appreciate the challenge of outsmarting one player, but bypass the challenge of outsmarting a different player? I doubt I bring anything to the table that you'd be so inclined to avoid.

[motel room]

catching up and i got myself a cup of those jjj scumman blues